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On April 11 2022 03:00 PhoenixVoid wrote:
First estimates for the first round are put as 28.1% for Macron versus 23.3% for Le Pen with the closing of polls. Not as worrisome for Macron as the Belgian exit polls were indicating.
The last few polls are surprisingly close but in the grand scheme of things I think we can still say that it's unlikely Macron doesn't get a second term. At least it would be a surprise to me.
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On April 11 2022 03:00 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2022 02:37 Nebuchad wrote:On April 10 2022 23:39 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2022 23:41 Nebuchad wrote:On April 09 2022 01:54 Erasme wrote:On April 08 2022 20:44 Nebuchad wrote:
Oh no not Putin's stooges brrr Let's just put an anti nato/eu revolutionnary at the head of France. It seems like a good time to do it no ? I'm actually quite interested as to your reasons for voting that way ? It must be quite important to forget that he lets russian money dictate his policies. I want to break the system so I'll vote for the candidate that has the most chance of breaking the system. Seems fairly straightforward. Poutou is clearly a much better person but he's going to get like 3% or whatever. When has voting to break the system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather then just getting even worse? No idea. When has voting to maintain a (neoliberal) system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather than just getting even worse? When has breaking the system with a populist not worked out way worse?
People who want to "break the system" usually aren't very aware on how much they're benefitting from it. Hearing it from an american is somewhat alright, but from a french xd
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On April 11 2022 03:09 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2022 03:00 JimmiC wrote:On April 11 2022 02:37 Nebuchad wrote:On April 10 2022 23:39 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2022 23:41 Nebuchad wrote:On April 09 2022 01:54 Erasme wrote:On April 08 2022 20:44 Nebuchad wrote:
Oh no not Putin's stooges brrr Let's just put an anti nato/eu revolutionnary at the head of France. It seems like a good time to do it no ? I'm actually quite interested as to your reasons for voting that way ? It must be quite important to forget that he lets russian money dictate his policies. I want to break the system so I'll vote for the candidate that has the most chance of breaking the system. Seems fairly straightforward. Poutou is clearly a much better person but he's going to get like 3% or whatever. When has voting to break the system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather then just getting even worse? No idea. When has voting to maintain a (neoliberal) system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather than just getting even worse? When has breaking the system with a populist not worked out way worse? People who want to "break the system" usually aren't very aware on how much they're benefitting from it. Hearing it from an american is somewhat alright, but from a french xd
There's this thing in leftism where we sometimes vote for what's best for humans rather than what's best for ourselves, I know it's an extremely foreign thought to you guys.
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On April 11 2022 03:11 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2022 03:09 Erasme wrote:On April 11 2022 03:00 JimmiC wrote:On April 11 2022 02:37 Nebuchad wrote:On April 10 2022 23:39 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2022 23:41 Nebuchad wrote:On April 09 2022 01:54 Erasme wrote:On April 08 2022 20:44 Nebuchad wrote:
Oh no not Putin's stooges brrr Let's just put an anti nato/eu revolutionnary at the head of France. It seems like a good time to do it no ? I'm actually quite interested as to your reasons for voting that way ? It must be quite important to forget that he lets russian money dictate his policies. I want to break the system so I'll vote for the candidate that has the most chance of breaking the system. Seems fairly straightforward. Poutou is clearly a much better person but he's going to get like 3% or whatever. When has voting to break the system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather then just getting even worse? No idea. When has voting to maintain a (neoliberal) system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather than just getting even worse? When has breaking the system with a populist not worked out way worse? People who want to "break the system" usually aren't very aware on how much they're benefitting from it. Hearing it from an american is somewhat alright, but from a french xd There's this thing in leftism where we sometimes vote for what's best for humans rather than what's best for ourselves, I know it's an extremely foreign thought to you guys.
Ya and voting to "break the system" in one of the most eco friendly country surely will advance your cause. Clueless?
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On April 11 2022 03:12 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2022 03:11 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2022 03:09 Erasme wrote:On April 11 2022 03:00 JimmiC wrote:On April 11 2022 02:37 Nebuchad wrote:On April 10 2022 23:39 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2022 23:41 Nebuchad wrote:On April 09 2022 01:54 Erasme wrote:On April 08 2022 20:44 Nebuchad wrote:
Oh no not Putin's stooges brrr Let's just put an anti nato/eu revolutionnary at the head of France. It seems like a good time to do it no ? I'm actually quite interested as to your reasons for voting that way ? It must be quite important to forget that he lets russian money dictate his policies. I want to break the system so I'll vote for the candidate that has the most chance of breaking the system. Seems fairly straightforward. Poutou is clearly a much better person but he's going to get like 3% or whatever. When has voting to break the system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather then just getting even worse? No idea. When has voting to maintain a (neoliberal) system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather than just getting even worse? When has breaking the system with a populist not worked out way worse? People who want to "break the system" usually aren't very aware on how much they're benefitting from it. Hearing it from an american is somewhat alright, but from a french xd There's this thing in leftism where we sometimes vote for what's best for humans rather than what's best for ourselves, I know it's an extremely foreign thought to you guys. Ya and voting to "break the system" in one of the most eco friendly country surely will advance your cause. Clueless?
Yes it would since my cause is breaking the system, rofl. How are you not able to follow this.
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On April 11 2022 02:37 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2022 23:39 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2022 23:41 Nebuchad wrote:On April 09 2022 01:54 Erasme wrote:On April 08 2022 20:44 Nebuchad wrote:
Oh no not Putin's stooges brrr Let's just put an anti nato/eu revolutionnary at the head of France. It seems like a good time to do it no ? I'm actually quite interested as to your reasons for voting that way ? It must be quite important to forget that he lets russian money dictate his policies. I want to break the system so I'll vote for the candidate that has the most chance of breaking the system. Seems fairly straightforward. Poutou is clearly a much better person but he's going to get like 3% or whatever. When has voting to break the system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather then just getting even worse? No idea. When has voting to maintain a (neoliberal) system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather than just getting even worse? Every democratic country that has improved in some way in the last god knows how many years?
Now I get that Macron might not be the guy to do it, maybe none of the candidates are. And that sucks, I get it. But 'breaking the system' has basically a 100% failure rate.
Parts of America thought they would be better of 'breaking the system' by voting for Trump. I feel pretty confident in saying none of them are better off because of it.
Its ok to hate Macron, its ok to hate the system and to want change, but no Democratic system has gotten better by voting to break it. Vote for people you think will do better and if you think that is Le Pen, then so be it. But don't vote for the system to fail and hope that miraculously things will somehow get better despite the entirety of modern history showing that it won't.
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On April 11 2022 03:14 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2022 03:12 Erasme wrote:On April 11 2022 03:11 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2022 03:09 Erasme wrote:On April 11 2022 03:00 JimmiC wrote:On April 11 2022 02:37 Nebuchad wrote:On April 10 2022 23:39 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2022 23:41 Nebuchad wrote:On April 09 2022 01:54 Erasme wrote:On April 08 2022 20:44 Nebuchad wrote:
Oh no not Putin's stooges brrr Let's just put an anti nato/eu revolutionnary at the head of France. It seems like a good time to do it no ? I'm actually quite interested as to your reasons for voting that way ? It must be quite important to forget that he lets russian money dictate his policies. I want to break the system so I'll vote for the candidate that has the most chance of breaking the system. Seems fairly straightforward. Poutou is clearly a much better person but he's going to get like 3% or whatever. When has voting to break the system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather then just getting even worse? No idea. When has voting to maintain a (neoliberal) system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather than just getting even worse? When has breaking the system with a populist not worked out way worse? People who want to "break the system" usually aren't very aware on how much they're benefitting from it. Hearing it from an american is somewhat alright, but from a french xd There's this thing in leftism where we sometimes vote for what's best for humans rather than what's best for ourselves, I know it's an extremely foreign thought to you guys. Ya and voting to "break the system" in one of the most eco friendly country surely will advance your cause. Clueless? Yes it would since my cause is breaking the system, rofl. How are you not able to follow this.
The problem is that your point seems not too well-thought through.
I doubt that "breaking the system" by putting someone like LePen in charge would actually be what is best for humans.
I get that the theory is that by making stuff a lot worse, you create an incentive to make stuff better afterwards. In practice that doesn't seem to happen, though.
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On April 11 2022 03:14 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2022 03:12 Erasme wrote:On April 11 2022 03:11 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2022 03:09 Erasme wrote:On April 11 2022 03:00 JimmiC wrote:On April 11 2022 02:37 Nebuchad wrote:On April 10 2022 23:39 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2022 23:41 Nebuchad wrote:On April 09 2022 01:54 Erasme wrote:On April 08 2022 20:44 Nebuchad wrote:
Oh no not Putin's stooges brrr Let's just put an anti nato/eu revolutionnary at the head of France. It seems like a good time to do it no ? I'm actually quite interested as to your reasons for voting that way ? It must be quite important to forget that he lets russian money dictate his policies. I want to break the system so I'll vote for the candidate that has the most chance of breaking the system. Seems fairly straightforward. Poutou is clearly a much better person but he's going to get like 3% or whatever. When has voting to break the system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather then just getting even worse? No idea. When has voting to maintain a (neoliberal) system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather than just getting even worse? When has breaking the system with a populist not worked out way worse? People who want to "break the system" usually aren't very aware on how much they're benefitting from it. Hearing it from an american is somewhat alright, but from a french xd There's this thing in leftism where we sometimes vote for what's best for humans rather than what's best for ourselves, I know it's an extremely foreign thought to you guys. Ya and voting to "break the system" in one of the most eco friendly country surely will advance your cause. Clueless? Yes it would since my cause is breaking the system, rofl. How are you not able to follow this.
And beyond that ? There's nothing else ? Did you become jaded attending public school and free higher education ? Or was it the transportation system that allows you to go anywhere you want for cheap ? Maybe the healthcare system ? You're gonna have to develop if you want people to understand you.
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On April 11 2022 03:14 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2022 02:37 Nebuchad wrote:On April 10 2022 23:39 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2022 23:41 Nebuchad wrote:On April 09 2022 01:54 Erasme wrote:On April 08 2022 20:44 Nebuchad wrote:
Oh no not Putin's stooges brrr Let's just put an anti nato/eu revolutionnary at the head of France. It seems like a good time to do it no ? I'm actually quite interested as to your reasons for voting that way ? It must be quite important to forget that he lets russian money dictate his policies. I want to break the system so I'll vote for the candidate that has the most chance of breaking the system. Seems fairly straightforward. Poutou is clearly a much better person but he's going to get like 3% or whatever. When has voting to break the system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather then just getting even worse? No idea. When has voting to maintain a (neoliberal) system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather than just getting even worse? Every democratic country that has improved in some way in the last god knows how many years? Now I get that Macron might not be the guy to do it, maybe none of the candidates are. And that sucks, I get it. But 'breaking the system' has basically a 100% failure rate. Parts of America thought they would be better of 'breaking the system' by voting for Trump. I feel pretty confident in saying none of them are better off because of it. Its ok to hate Macron, its ok to hate the system and to want change, but no Democratic system has gotten better by voting to break it. Vote for people you think will do better and if you think that is Le Pen, then so be it. But don't vote for the system to fail and hope that miraculously things will somehow get better despite the entirety of modern history showing that it won't.
I'm skeptical that you'll find any country that has improved in any kind of significant way under neoliberalism. The US is worse than ever, the UK is trending down, France is at its low point... Maybe we have a different definition of what improving means, if you're talking about where you would love to live as a billionaire then sure they're all doing amazing.
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On April 11 2022 03:16 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2022 03:14 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2022 03:12 Erasme wrote:On April 11 2022 03:11 Nebuchad wrote:On April 11 2022 03:09 Erasme wrote:On April 11 2022 03:00 JimmiC wrote:On April 11 2022 02:37 Nebuchad wrote:On April 10 2022 23:39 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2022 23:41 Nebuchad wrote:On April 09 2022 01:54 Erasme wrote:
[quote]
Let's just put an anti nato/eu revolutionnary at the head of France. It seems like a good time to do it no ?
I'm actually quite interested as to your reasons for voting that way ? It must be quite important to forget that he lets russian money dictate his policies. I want to break the system so I'll vote for the candidate that has the most chance of breaking the system. Seems fairly straightforward. Poutou is clearly a much better person but he's going to get like 3% or whatever. When has voting to break the system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather then just getting even worse? No idea. When has voting to maintain a (neoliberal) system ever resulted in the system actually getting better rather than just getting even worse? When has breaking the system with a populist not worked out way worse? People who want to "break the system" usually aren't very aware on how much they're benefitting from it. Hearing it from an american is somewhat alright, but from a french xd There's this thing in leftism where we sometimes vote for what's best for humans rather than what's best for ourselves, I know it's an extremely foreign thought to you guys. Ya and voting to "break the system" in one of the most eco friendly country surely will advance your cause. Clueless? Yes it would since my cause is breaking the system, rofl. How are you not able to follow this. The problem is that your point seems not too well-thought through. I doubt that "breaking the system" by putting someone like LePen in charge would actually be what is best for humans. I get that the theory is that by making stuff a lot worse, you create an incentive to make stuff better afterwards. In practice that doesn't seem to happen, though.
Am I seriously going to have to explain how this isn't a very interesting argument? You say yourself that Le Pen wouldn't change anything for the better. If I wanted her in I could have voted for her in the first round, any notion of why I didn't?
"I want things to change.
- Ahah, but if you were in a car accident and you were paralyzed, things would change and that wouldn't be great for you, have you thought of that?"
I thought better of Acrofales and I thought better of you.
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I love the ad hominem, just because i disagree with your take here.
I am not a fan of Macron. I think that the french election system is not ideal, because it forces these 1v1 decisions. Still better than the US one, but not optimal.
I don't see anything good coming from voting for the hard-right because you dislike the center-right.
Yes, change is important, and i think pretty much everyone will find a lot of things that are not ideal in their country. However, if you prioritize change over the direction of that change, you overlook the fact that quite a lot could be going a lot worse, too.
I simply do not think that change in the wrong direction is better than no change.
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I haven't voted for the far right, don't plan to vote for the far right, because I'm not an idiot. I felt insulted by you assuming that I would do something this stupid, but don't worry I will get over that feeling at some point in the near future.
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Melenchon (third place) exhorting his followers to not vote for Le Pen. Pecresse, Jadot, Hidalgo, and Roussel endorsed Macron. Zemmour tells his followers to vote Le Pen.
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On April 11 2022 00:33 LegalLord wrote:
I honestly don't expect anything exciting today. Unless Melenchon somehow displaces one of the expected favorites, it'll just be what we all expect and then we hop quietly over to the runoffs that would actually make the difference.
Yeah, (projected) results look pretty much in line with the polls. I guess Melenchon did better than expected and a lot of the lesser candidates did worse. But no real material differences overall.
Sadly probably another Macron presidency. Hoping to be proven wrong but don't expect to be.
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I guess some people who preferred those "lesser" candidates probably voted for Macron just to make sure they won't have to choose between Le Lep and Melenchon later.
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Good point Jimmi, I'll try to do better in the future.
For the people who need further clarification, the neoliberal electoral mechanism is to create circumstances where it's most likely that in every election you have a choice between liberalism and the far right, an absence of change or a change for the worse. As such, if you choose a change for the worse, you're not breaking the system in any way, you are participating in it.
Could that "worse" be so worse that it also breaks the system in the other direction? It is less likely, because we know that the system can easily function with more fascistic social outlooks, it has done so for hundreds of years when people had less of those "woke ideas" like minorities are human beings.
Nonetheless, it is a risk, and we know that the neoliberals weren't too confident when Trump was in. But between having a risk like Trump and having a risk for a better society for humans, it's not even close, they will choose Trump every time.
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On April 11 2022 04:23 Sent. wrote:
I guess some people who preferred those "lesser" candidates probably voted for Macron just to make sure they won't have to choose between Le Lep and Melenchon later.
If anything it looks like Melenchon got the bigger bump. Macron went 27->28.4 and Melenchon 19->21.1 based on said projections.
I wouldn't vote for a candidate destined to lose either so that's understandable. But Macron wasn't the biggest beneficiary here.
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EPT
