EPTDonating to a party? Wut? Becoming member of one whiteout personal political goals? Wut?
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1113
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Velr
Switzerland10972 Posts
Donating to a party? Wut? Becoming member of one whiteout personal political goals? Wut? | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On June 02 2018 03:39 Velr wrote: Your system is also pretty alien to many of us. Donating to a party? Wut? Becoming member of one whiteout personal political goals? Wut? Donating to a party is a cool idea if you consider it could mean less corrupt politicians. That doesn't work in the US though. Rich people have bought them. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10972 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 02 2018 03:39 Velr wrote: Your system is also pretty alien to many of us. Donating to a party? Wut? Becoming member of one whiteout personal political goals? Wut? We are not one government, we are 50 tiny governments that all operate under one larger government in mutual dysfunction. So there is no one Democratic party, that is sort of a weird by product of how we talk about them. Each state has its own branch of both parties. There is a national branch of both parties that coordinates with the 50 state branches and they try to call the shots with varying degrees of success. I could donate to my state branch to help them find candidates to run in state elections or I could donate to someone who is running in one of those elections. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
For the little story, the Rassemblement national was previously: - The name of a fascist party which collaborated with the nazis when France was occupied (1941-1944). - The name of a far-right party founded in 1953 by one of Le Pen's (father) political mentors. - The name chosen by the FN for its 1986 campaign. This does send some signal. | ||
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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
On June 02 2018 05:05 TheDwf wrote: After an internal vote of its militants, the Front National changed its name to Rassemblement National [National gathering]. For the little story, the Rassemblement national was previously: - The name of a fascist party which collaborated with the nazis when France was occupied (1941-1944). - The name of a far-right party founded in 1953 by one of Le Pen's (father) political mentors. - The name chosen by the FN for its 1986 campaign. This does send some signal. What's their logic? Haven't they been trying to wash their image lately with Marine Le Pen distancing herself from her father's more extreme rhetoric? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 02 2018 05:28 warding wrote: What's their logic? Haven't they been trying to wash their image lately with Marine Le Pen distancing herself from her father's more extreme rhetoric? They wanted to change their name to wash away their failures from the 2017 sequence and appear more "rallying". For instance, Le Pen proposed the 5% sovereignist right guy to renew their presidential alliance for the upcoming European elections. As for the previous occurences of the name, pretty much no one knows them, but people like me will do the job to spread the knowledge.  | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On June 02 2018 05:05 TheDwf wrote: After an internal vote of its militants, the Front National changed its name to Rassemblement National [National gathering]. For the little story, the Rassemblement national was previously: - The name of a fascist party which collaborated with the nazis when France was occupied (1941-1944). - The name of a far-right party founded in 1953 by one of Le Pen's (father) political mentors. - The name chosen by the FN for its 1986 campaign. This does send some signal. When you run out of arguments, try to compare people to something they're probably not. I dislike Le Pen but it's too quick to call her nazi yet. You eventually repeat a name. Humanity has existed for a long time. People with your mentality are the reason why a lot of people in society are tired of politics. Naming and shaming is just annoying. Leftists do it too much as well. Do yourself a favour, read Le Pen's policies and attack them. Referencing a name used 60 years ago is just weak. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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Simberto
Germany12039 Posts
On June 02 2018 05:59 sc-darkness wrote: When you run out of arguments, try to compare people to something they're probably not. I dislike Le Pen but it's too quick to call her nazi yet. You eventually repeat a name. Humanity has existed for a long time. People with your mentality are the reason why a lot of people in society are tired of politics. Naming and shaming is just annoying. Leftists do it too much as well. Do yourself a favour, read Le Pen's policies and attack them. Referencing a name used 60 years ago is just weak. Dunno, if the AfD suddenly changed their name to "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei", that would be quite telling about their intentions. I don't know enough about french politics to know whether this is on that level, but generally actively changing your name means that you want to make a statement with that name. It is not that hard to not choose a nazi name. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 02 2018 06:16 Plansix wrote: Just a quick reminder of this dumb American, Le Pen’s father was the previous leader of that party and he was totally a fascist, right? Yep | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On June 02 2018 06:16 Simberto wrote: Dunno, if the AfD suddenly changed their name to "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei", that would be quite telling about their intentions. I don't know enough about french politics to know whether this is on that level, but generally actively changing your name means that you want to make a statement with that name. It is not that hard to not choose a nazi name. As a name, "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" (translation: National Socialist German Workers' Party) sounds totally fine. It's history you're worried about. I doubt both Le Pen and most German parties really want to be nazis even if they happen to pick such a name. It's actions that speak not names. That said, I know this is a sensitive topic for Germans. I respect that but we shouldn't be obsessed with names either. If tomorrow Hitler has a party called Conservatives (UK), Christian Democratic Union of Germany (Germany) or La République En Marche! (France), are you going to hate on innocent names too? Again, it's ideas and actions that matter. That's why I said to the person above to focus on policies not on names. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On June 02 2018 06:32 sc-darkness wrote: As a name, "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" (translation: National Socialist German Workers' Party) sounds totally fine. It's history you're worried about. I doubt both Le Pen and most German parties really want to be nazis even if they happen to pick such a name. Its actions that speak not names. That said, I know this is a sensitive topic for Germans. I respect that but we shouldn't be obsessed with names either. If tomorrow Hitler has a party called Conservatives (UK), Christian Democratic Union of Germany (Germany) or La République En Marche! (France), are you going to hate on innocent names too? Again, its ideas and actions that matter. That's why I said to the person above to focus on policies not on names. this isn't just history. it's recent enough that there's people alive who lived through it. and the names you choose to use do say something about you and your policies. I feel your objection to the other person was also rather sketchy since 2 of the other uses he cited are clearly not just randomly using the same name, but have a far more direct link. and people have tlaked plenty about their policies. they're free to also criticize the name choices. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
Dove puts an ad where they show different minorities. Shit, some people interpret it that black woman turns white so it has to be racist. It can't be a coincidence, no. That's an example of too much noise and not enough thinking as mentioned in the previous paragraph. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On June 02 2018 06:43 sc-darkness wrote: You could criticise names all you want but I'd be inclined to ignore that as a voter. It would be a lower priority for me. I prefer to read policies and see if they match my beliefs, then I could see if I should vote for that party or not. Let's go back to democracy and not kindergarten. that doesn't really substantiate/justify your prior points; or address the objections to them. so it sounds like you simply don't have any good points. nor are you engaging in any actual substantive policy debate yourself. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On June 02 2018 06:51 sc-darkness wrote: I've explained my reasons. If they don't convince you, no more justification would help you. Take it or leave it as they say. they don't convince me because they're poor reasoning. So I choose to leave it, as one should with bad reasoning. your view is just as set in stone, so an odd complaint to have; when you are clearly just as unwilling to consider changing your mind as you claim your opponents are. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12039 Posts
If someone consciously chooses a nazi name, it is not unreasonable to assume that they want to at least partially follow along that line. That already makes them so far removed from me politically that i wouldn't vote for them. This is similar to the way that you have a pretty good idea of the music a band called "Deathmönster" makes, especially when compared to something like "The munich philharmonic orchestra". The name you choose says something about you. The history of that name is involved in that. This is obviously different for names which you do not choose. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
In the US, we call it dog whistle racism when a politician says they support equality, but also are tough on crime by cracking down on the urban youths committing violent acts in hard working communities. That person doesn’t support equality. They want to get in office and use the police to throw black people in jail, especially if they wander into white neighborhoods. This looks like a case of some dog whistle fascism. | ||
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