EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1114
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On June 02 2018 07:05 TheDwf wrote: What I find amusing with the new name is that the far-right has this grand fantasy about a national reconciliation, yet no party is as divisive as them, always trying to sort out who is really legitimate and who isn't within the nation... That's more meaningful criticism in my opinion. On June 02 2018 06:54 Simberto wrote: It is not about the name per se, but about the statement the person makes by choosing the name. If someone consciously chooses a nazi name, it is not unreasonable to assume that they want to at least partially follow along that line. That already makes them so far removed from me politically that i wouldn't vote for them. This is similar to the way that you have a pretty good idea of the music a band called "Deathmönster" makes, especially when compared to something like "The munich philharmonic orchestra". The name you choose says something about you. The history of that name is involved in that. This is obviously different for names which you do not choose. Maybe. Someone should ask Le Pen about intentions. We don't know for sure. On June 02 2018 06:52 zlefin wrote: they don't convince me because they're poor reasoning. So I choose to leave it, as one should with bad reasoning. your view is just as set in stone, so an odd complaint to have; when you are clearly just as unwilling to consider changing your mind as you claim your opponents are. Good. Yours isn't great either. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 02 2018 07:12 sc-darkness wrote: Maybe. Someone should ask Le Pen about intentions. We don't know for sure. What if she lies? She and he fascist father before her have been trying to get into get into power for decades as a far right fascists party. Should people believe that she suddenly changed and now thinks liberal democratic values are great? | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On June 02 2018 07:20 Plansix wrote: What if she lies? She and he fascist father before her have been trying to get into get into power for decades as a far right fascists party. Should people believe that she suddenly changed and now thinks liberal democratic values are great? Let me ask you this: 1. Did they kill anyone? Did they suggest doing so? 2. Did they talk about pure race? 3. Did they regret Hitler's death? If the answer to all three is a no, then I don't see what's fascist about them. I just don't trust political labels anymore because they're used too frequently. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 02 2018 07:23 sc-darkness wrote: Let me ask you this: 1. Did they kill anyone? Did they suggest doing so? 2. Did they talk about pure race? 3. Did they regret Hitler's death? If the answer to all three is a no, then I don't see what's fascist about them. I just don't trust political labels anymore because they're used too frequently. Not to go full Goldman's law, but you do know that Nazis didn't overtly run on a platform of killing people or racial purity, right? A lot the characteristics of Nazi Germany we are familiar with were not features of their bid for power. They came afterwords. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18325 Posts
On June 02 2018 07:23 sc-darkness wrote: Let me ask you this: 1. Did they kill anyone? Did they suggest doing so? 2. Did they talk about pure race? 3. Did they regret Hitler's death? If the answer to all three is a no, then I don't see what's fascist about them. I just don't trust political labels anymore because they're used too frequently. For her father, we can answer quite unequivocally: 1. Yes (to the second part) 2. Yes 3. Probably not. For Marine it's a bit harder. She's a lot more subtle and makes sure to sound almost acceptable while never really straying far enough from her father's "ideals" for the hardcore part of his base to brand her a traitor. | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
On June 02 2018 07:23 sc-darkness wrote: Let me ask you this: 1. Did they kill anyone? Did they suggest doing so? 2. Did they talk about pure race? 3. Did they regret Hitler's death? If the answer to all three is a no, then I don't see what's fascist about them. I just don't trust political labels anymore because they're used too frequently. 1 The father is a known torturer during the Algerian independance war, he probably killed a bunch of people. 2 They do in more or less subtle ways like "I believe in races inequalities" 3 The father said the gas chambers were "a detail of history", various 3rd Reich references like small statues on his desk So yeah, the father shown he was a fascist, I can't tell for sure for the daughter, maybe she's just cynic and rides on her father's legacy in a more subtle way to get a good carreer. She's more politically correct but she's blatantly racist and her project is irrealistic (a lot of governmental help with a lot of tax cuts). | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On June 02 2018 11:02 LegalLord wrote: Marine Le Pen's political prowess has certainly shown to be lacking. A more competent candidate should have been able to turn a wave of popular support like that into a longer term position of leadership. Instead we just got a spoiler for the primaries, paving the way to an easy win for a middling candidate like Macron. Rebranding almost certainly will change nothing at all. Oh well, she supports Brexit just like you do. Also, she is pro-Russia and you're Russian so you should be happy with her.  | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 02 2018 17:05 sc-darkness wrote: Well, ignoring the fact she is an unsatisfied old lady, hence upset, she can't gain much from anti-EU views right now anyway. She was stronger when Brexit was new. People can see what a fuck-up Brexit is right now and that the UK has no idea what they're doing with it which I hope it means weaker euroskeptics like her. People who supported the Brexit don't think that way at all, all they say is that the apocalyptical predictions of pro-Remain didn't happen, so it's OK | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9217 Posts
On June 02 2018 17:02 LegalLord wrote: You miss the point. She’s not a winner, politically speaking, so any of those advantages become immediately moot. Someone more competent needs to take charge. This is not about political competence, Le Pen and Farage are infinitely more competent than Trump or Beppe Grillo. But they're in very different electoral systems, with voters with different priorities, voters that seem to find competence suspicious as of late. If anything, they need someone less competent to take charge. They have to find a right-wing version of Dieudonne. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
Wilders got less votes in the last Dutch election than in 2010, The AfD seems to be stable at simliar numbers somewhere moderately above 10%, France isn't going to vote for a far-right party and we'll see what the next Italian government does but my bet is on governing more normally than they appear right now, just as Greece did. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
Didn't the FN even talk about dropping their plans to leave the EU or hold a referendum? Was that part of the name change? | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On June 03 2018 12:18 Nyxisto wrote: I'm pretty sure that literally happened just a year ago, have they done another 180 already? I don't know if this is what you're talking about, but what you said earlier was more or less indicated a year ago. Le Pen said on Friday that the far-right party would start debating its trademark anti-euro stance after next month’s parliamentary elections. “There will be no Frexit. We have taken note of what the French people told us,” Bernard Monot, the party’s chief economic strategist, told The Telegraph. Link: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-fn-euro-idUSKBN18I0XF | ||
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