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As much as I like the books... I've started reading the series when the second book came out and it has been annoying as hell to keep up with the story. The third volume was published in 2000, fourth in 2005 and the fifth this year. My advice to everyone that asks me is to wait until he has published the entire series before starting.
And don't misunderstand me, I don't think that I'm entitled to the other volumes but as a reader it is hard for me to keep up because of the long breaks. The editing has also become worse with every subsequent volume. Too many storylines and too little focus.
One example for me is the entire Daenerys story line. I understand that he probably plans to bring her back to Westeros in a big way but her whole story is a book within the book. He could have used a number of storytelling devices to make sure the reader knows what she is up to without actually having to dedicate so many pages to her. If he really wanted to tell that story he could have done so in another book after finishing song and just called it "The rise of the dragon queen" or whatever.
Oh and if you want to read something else from George than I highly recommend Fevre Dream. You won't be disappointed. Good thing about it... it's just a standalone novel 
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Bought the first three books today and will start reading, watched the tv series and heard the books are good so looking forward to it.
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On September 04 2011 17:31 Crazyeyes wrote:Yeah, I always read it as may-ster too. I rewatched the first five eps of GoT and they say 'miester' or something. It's weird. And I always imaigned their chains as being super heavy necklaces: http://www.shahji.com/images/products/detail/130135c.jpgExcept less pretty and literally being chains and being equally as thick all around or something. In the show, they wear them as sashes or some shit O_o Don't they often say that its 'tight around the neck' ? Unsullied: Yes, during my cooldown period (like I said I was really excited and I literally COULD not read without getting some of that excitement out) I realized how increidbly stupid they were and why that's never happened before. I still loved the scene. xD I'll give you that it was a bit dumb, though. Jon: + Show Spoiler +Yeah it seems thos eare the most popular theories and they're almost certainly right. He WILL warg into Ghost, they said a few times during DwD and even eralier that you stay alive in your warg-animal after you die. Hopefully Ghost is safe, lol. I hope it's only 2 years for the next book. -.-
They make their chains by adding one link to it at a time for each scientific field they learn. Each link is of a different material. Young Maesters will often have tighter chains than older Maesters since the older ones have had more time to specialize in several fields.
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On September 05 2011 18:35 BlueSpace wrote:As much as I like the books... I've started reading the series when the second book came out and it has been annoying as hell to keep up with the story. The third volume was published in 2000, fourth in 2005 and the fifth this year. My advice to everyone that asks me is to wait until he has published the entire series before starting. And don't misunderstand me, I don't think that I'm entitled to the other volumes but as a reader it is hard for me to keep up because of the long breaks. The editing has also become worse with every subsequent volume. Too many storylines and too little focus. One example for me is the entire Daenerys story line. I understand that he probably plans to bring her back to Westeros in a big way but her whole story is a book within the book. He could have used a number of storytelling devices to make sure the reader knows what she is up to without actually having to dedicate so many pages to her. If he really wanted to tell that story he could have done so in another book after finishing song and just called it "The rise of the dragon queen" or whatever. Oh and if you want to read something else from George than I highly recommend Fevre Dream. You won't be disappointed. Good thing about it... it's just a standalone novel
Daenerys is actually one of my favorite characters so i would disagree that she was to become something of a non-appearing character, only mentioned vaguely until she lands upon Westeros.
I will agree that he could have shortend it. Frankly her entire Mereenese storyline felt like a waste. Up until that point she was always moving forward to her goal of invading Westeros. All her character development came naturally as she went from point A to point B but somewhere along the road we ended up at point C.
Danny has always been the most removed from the "main" storyline but on her own she was intresting enough to warrant some attention. It was important to follow her because we all saw her storyline becoming a part of the Westeros story sooner or later.
I really feel that he wasted far too much time with dance of dragons. I mean the book is called a dance with dragons, how can you not end that with an invasion or at the least her setting sail?
Now she is lost in the Dothraki sea for god knows how long until her dragon decides to pay attention and listen to her.
I wonder if he will manage to rap things up with 2 more books considering the snail pace he has taken on with his last two books. I am not talking about the 5 year periods in between but the actuall pace of the story.
I think we can all agree that more time doesn't translate into better books. Book 3 was vastly superior the 4 and 5 whilst taking a whole lot less time to write.
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I too seriously have doubts about two books being enough to finish the series :D
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On September 05 2011 21:43 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2011 18:35 BlueSpace wrote:As much as I like the books... I've started reading the series when the second book came out and it has been annoying as hell to keep up with the story. The third volume was published in 2000, fourth in 2005 and the fifth this year. My advice to everyone that asks me is to wait until he has published the entire series before starting. And don't misunderstand me, I don't think that I'm entitled to the other volumes but as a reader it is hard for me to keep up because of the long breaks. The editing has also become worse with every subsequent volume. Too many storylines and too little focus. One example for me is the entire Daenerys story line. I understand that he probably plans to bring her back to Westeros in a big way but her whole story is a book within the book. He could have used a number of storytelling devices to make sure the reader knows what she is up to without actually having to dedicate so many pages to her. If he really wanted to tell that story he could have done so in another book after finishing song and just called it "The rise of the dragon queen" or whatever. Oh and if you want to read something else from George than I highly recommend Fevre Dream. You won't be disappointed. Good thing about it... it's just a standalone novel Daenerys is actually one of my favorite characters so i would disagree that she was to become something of a non-appearing character, only mentioned vaguely until she lands upon Westeros. I will agree that he could have shortend it. Frankly her entire Mereenese storyline felt like a waste. Up until that point she was always moving forward to her goal of invading Westeros. All her character development came naturally as she went from point A to point B but somewhere along the road we ended up at point C. Danny has always been the most removed from the "main" storyline but on her own she was intresting enough to warrant some attention. It was important to follow her because we all saw her storyline becoming a part of the Westeros story sooner or later. I really feel that he wasted far too much time with dance of dragons. I mean the book is called a dance with dragons, how can you not end that with an invasion or at the least her setting sail? Now she is lost in the Dothraki sea for god knows how long until her dragon decides to pay attention and listen to her. I wonder if he will manage to rap things up with 2 more books considering the snail pace he has taken on with his last two books. I am not talking about the 5 year periods in between but the actuall pace of the story. I think we can all agree that more time doesn't translate into better books. Book 3 was vastly superior the 4 and 5 whilst taking a whole lot less time to write.
I too doubt that 2 books will be enough to end the saga, but book 4 was the greatest in this series IMO.
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The benefits of having such an expansive storyline, I guess. I'm just hoping it doesn't turn into the next Wheel of Time - that was started with the notion of being a three book series... And no offence intended to Mr Martin himself, but he's no spring chicken  Mind you if he does survive long enough to make it a much longer series, I have absolutely no problems with that.
I enjoy the viewpoints from different parts of the world, although I wish we had a bit more from Dorne. I'll be interested to see how things turn out with the new Targaryen on the scene, and How Will Jon Get Out Of This One(tm). I've enjoyed each one in the series so far, can't wait for the next one - let's hope it's not another five years in the making.
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I really had a though time getting through book 4. Book 5 was a bit easier since it was basicly only my favorite characters. Though I really whish he would pick up the pace again. All that really happened at the wall was wildlings coming through
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About AA reborn:
+ Show Spoiler +Although It all looks like it could be Jon, I hope it's Victorian (smoke and salt) with his smoking arm on the sea.. and he's much closer to dragons then Jon
Dany:
+ Show Spoiler +I'm getting a little tired of her story really... she's oh so good ' mother of the people' freeing the slaves and stuff... she doesn't fit there. I wouldn't mind seeing her dead in the next book
Hopes:
+ Show Spoiler +Hoping on seeing more Arya, Jammie, tyrion, Bran and Victorian in next future ! ohh and Davos
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I started reading the books after seeing the TV series (hadn't heard of the series before), as TV/film adaptions usually leave a lot of stuff out and the books are usually much better. I'm up to the beginning of A Clash of Kings, and so far the most obvious thing I've noticed so far is how the relationship between Catelyn and Jon is waaaaaay more angry in the book. I'm also really liking reading more about the Tullys but I'm guessing they get shafted like pretty much everyone else. Amyway, if you haven't tried the books, do it, NOW!
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I have a question about a certain character in A Feast for Crows.
+ Show Spoiler +If you have the paperback edition, it's on page 818. If not, it's the end of the Jaime chapter, where he parlays with the Blackfish at Riverrun, and frees Edmure Tully from the noose that Ser Ryman kept him in. Edmure is invited back to Jaime's tent, and as the chapter draws to a close, Jaime offers to have a singer sing for Edmure. Oddly enough, the singer seems to frighten Edmure, and it seems that that was Jaime's intent. I tried rereading the chapter, but I found no clues as to who this singer might be. I would wager that the singer is a character that has been seen before, but I cannot decipher which one it is.
Long story short, who is the singer? Is the reader meant to know who it is at that point in the book?
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On September 06 2011 23:55 Aeres wrote:I have a question about a certain character in A Feast for Crows. + Show Spoiler +If you have the paperback edition, it's on page 818. If not, it's the end of the Jaime chapter, where he parlays with the Blackfish at Riverrun, and frees Edmure Tully from the noose that Ser Ryman kept him in. Edmure is invited back to Jaime's tent, and as the chapter draws to a close, Jaime offers to have a singer sing for Edmure. Oddly enough, the singer seems to frighten Edmure, and it seems that that was Jaime's intent. I tried rereading the chapter, but I found no clues as to who this singer might be. I would wager that the singer is a character that has been seen before, but I cannot decipher which one it is.
Long story short, who is the singer? Is the reader meant to know who it is at that point in the book?
+ Show Spoiler +I don't have the book on hand, but if I remember correctly that was Tom of the Sevens who was one of the outlaws that rode with Dondarrion(?). Arya's group was taken by Tom's group after they escaped the village where Yoren was killed.
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I just finished the new book. Oddly enough, the character whose fate I want to find out about at the end is + Show Spoiler +For everyone else, either they're definitely alive, definitely a zombie, or I don't care at the end of the book.
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On September 06 2011 23:55 Aeres wrote:I have a question about a certain character in A Feast for Crows. + Show Spoiler +If you have the paperback edition, it's on page 818. If not, it's the end of the Jaime chapter, where he parlays with the Blackfish at Riverrun, and frees Edmure Tully from the noose that Ser Ryman kept him in. Edmure is invited back to Jaime's tent, and as the chapter draws to a close, Jaime offers to have a singer sing for Edmure. Oddly enough, the singer seems to frighten Edmure, and it seems that that was Jaime's intent. I tried rereading the chapter, but I found no clues as to who this singer might be. I would wager that the singer is a character that has been seen before, but I cannot decipher which one it is.
Long story short, who is the singer? Is the reader meant to know who it is at that point in the book?
Didn't he have the singer sing the rains of castamere ? coulda sworn the intent of the threat was the song, not the singer.
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On September 07 2011 09:06 strongandbig wrote:I just finished the new book. Oddly enough, the character whose fate I want to find out about at the end is + Show Spoiler +For everyone else, either they're definitely alive, definitely a zombie, or I don't care at the end of the book.
I have to admit...
+ Show Spoiler +when it talked about one of the Frey's hitting his throat with his sword I thought he was done for, but from what I remember it was just sort of a flesh wound (a really severe flesh wound) I think he will be fine going into the next book, but I don't see him living long after that heh
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On September 06 2011 23:55 Aeres wrote:I have a question about a certain character in A Feast for Crows. + Show Spoiler +If you have the paperback edition, it's on page 818. If not, it's the end of the Jaime chapter, where he parlays with the Blackfish at Riverrun, and frees Edmure Tully from the noose that Ser Ryman kept him in. Edmure is invited back to Jaime's tent, and as the chapter draws to a close, Jaime offers to have a singer sing for Edmure. Oddly enough, the singer seems to frighten Edmure, and it seems that that was Jaime's intent. I tried rereading the chapter, but I found no clues as to who this singer might be. I would wager that the singer is a character that has been seen before, but I cannot decipher which one it is.
Long story short, who is the singer? Is the reader meant to know who it is at that point in the book?
Jaime told the singer to sing "The Rains of Castamere" to frighten Edmure to yield and give up the whereabouts of his brother. Or suffer like the Reynes of Castamere.
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On September 07 2011 00:11 scorch- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2011 23:55 Aeres wrote:I have a question about a certain character in A Feast for Crows. + Show Spoiler +If you have the paperback edition, it's on page 818. If not, it's the end of the Jaime chapter, where he parlays with the Blackfish at Riverrun, and frees Edmure Tully from the noose that Ser Ryman kept him in. Edmure is invited back to Jaime's tent, and as the chapter draws to a close, Jaime offers to have a singer sing for Edmure. Oddly enough, the singer seems to frighten Edmure, and it seems that that was Jaime's intent. I tried rereading the chapter, but I found no clues as to who this singer might be. I would wager that the singer is a character that has been seen before, but I cannot decipher which one it is.
Long story short, who is the singer? Is the reader meant to know who it is at that point in the book? + Show Spoiler +I don't have the book on hand, but if I remember correctly that was Tom of the Sevens who was one of the outlaws that rode with Dondarrion(?). Arya's group was taken by Tom's group after they escaped the village where Yoren was killed.
This is correct. Well, Arya spent quite a lot of time in Harrenhal after Yoren was killed and before meeting the Tom, but the rest is correct. Tom and Edmure share a history, and repudedly Tom is the reason Edmure hates music. Tom also has several reasons to dislike House Tully, of which Edmure probably knows.
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Regarding the end Of ADWD:
+ Show Spoiler +
With the death of Tywin Lannister, the game of thrones lost its winning player, and after the epilogue of ADWD Team Lannister has zero players remaining. The only real players of the game of thrones who are still in are Varys and Littlefinger. (Stannis sucks at the game, and Doran Martell's gambits have all failed horribly - plus, since he was planning with Viserys who was planning with Illyrio, we have to assume he's an unwitting pawn of Varys's.
I really don't want Varys to win. His omniscience and mysteriousness have been so built up that he seems more like a deus ex machina than an actual character. I would be happily surprised if littlefinger won, just because it seems so unlikely right now - he has no king (in the chess sense). With Dany and Aegon both on the board, and Jon Snow waiting in the wings, it's hard to imagine Myrcella or Tommen actually winning, so unless Littlefinger has a (another?) fake Aegon waiting around he doesn't have much of a chance.
I'm hoping either that Tyrion decides to break off from Team Varys and start his own team (Dany doesn't have a chessmaster yet! Besides Illyrio, who is playing with Varys and supporting Aegon, and probably expecting Dany to marry him) or that Jon Snow grows a pair when he comes back from the dead, and starts his own team.
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Guys.....something was just brought to my attention about Jon snow
+ Show Spoiler +His murder was Cersei's plot because of his helping Stannis. Lol can't believe I forgot about that xD.
Also Jon's "death" fits the Azor Ahai thinger perfectly all for one part. He wakes no stone dragons. It must be Dany.......but there are three heads to the dragon.
Also, where better to put my thoughts about some events that are to take place in the next book(s) and other general thoughts on the series.
Arya is prolly my favorite character and my god....I read the books for the last time right after the 4th came out so I haven't read them in a while...and I'm half way through ASoS now and I have remembered just how brutal Arya is. I believe that she will end up with Jon somehow since her Father's words still come into play at times about how in winter the lone wolf dies but the pack survives. She will also find Nymeria SOMEHOW and if she doesn't I will be forever disappointed in the books.
As for Dany, the Archmaester up and left the moment he learned of two pieces of information,
1. Dragons are alive again
2. Others are coming
He is going to go to Dany, tell her that the world will end if she does not bring her dragons to the wall, and that will be how she gets to westeros. I'm pretty near 100% on this chain of events.
As for who wins in the end. I honestly don't think any one person is going to "win the game of thrones".
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On September 08 2011 08:22 strongandbig wrote:Regarding the end Of ADWD: + Show Spoiler +
With the death of Tywin Lannister, the game of thrones lost its winning player, and after the epilogue of ADWD Team Lannister has zero players remaining. The only real players of the game of thrones who are still in are Varys and Littlefinger. (Stannis sucks at the game, and Doran Martell's gambits have all failed horribly - plus, since he was planning with Viserys who was planning with Illyrio, we have to assume he's an unwitting pawn of Varys's.
I really don't want Varys to win. His omniscience and mysteriousness have been so built up that he seems more like a deus ex machina than an actual character. I would be happily surprised if littlefinger won, just because it seems so unlikely right now - he has no king (in the chess sense). With Dany and Aegon both on the board, and Jon Snow waiting in the wings, it's hard to imagine Myrcella or Tommen actually winning, so unless Littlefinger has a (another?) fake Aegon waiting around he doesn't have much of a chance.
I'm hoping either that Tyrion decides to break off from Team Varys and start his own team (Dany doesn't have a chessmaster yet! Besides Illyrio, who is playing with Varys and supporting Aegon, and probably expecting Dany to marry him) or that Jon Snow grows a pair when he comes back from the dead, and starts his own team.
Varys/Illyrio is probably conspiring to reintroduce any Targaryen to the throne for their own benefits. Not being actual players for the throne themselves, but ruling from behind it. The third Targaryen is still to be completely revealed too, much evidence there are one more (the count excluding Aegon).
I wouldn't count Lannisters out yet either, but they will probably do a dead cat bounce and then be down to a more minor role again.
Littlefinger/Sansa is still a long shot.
Victarion is not out yet either, assuming he can find allies.
If the Starks join forces they still have allies in the north and they seem to have a lot of unconventional powers with Bran acting as something like Odin's eye in Mimir's well, for those listening to the Old Gods. And Davos meeting up with Rickon?
Many stories seems to be retold from the Age of Heroes.
The question has shifted from "who will sit the Iron throne?" though... Now the real question is "Who will step up and save the world?"
Edit: I have no doubt he (GRRM) will introduce less obvious players as well, the other houses of course. But also the maesters from Old town, the church of the seven and so on.
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EPT
