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It depends are they equally better with a knife then a bat...
if equally good with both then its a tie... actually its a tie anyways if theyr equal on every aspect...
but the bat has more range, fuck actually it depends on if the strength and accuracy is equally good like if they could equally kill with one bat blow or does it take two, like then the knife would win due to sharpness and deadliness, no this debate is just fucked up...
also if they both were accurate at throwing, then its a tie cause if theyr good at thrownig bats then one hit head = gg but knife (almos anywhere to torso->head) =gg no re...
SO BASICLY TIE, BECAUSE THE DEBATE WAS NOT ACCURATELY MADE OUT, SO IF THEY ARE EQUAL WITH BOTH WEAPONS ITS A DAMN TIE...
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no need to take it personally bro
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On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote:
Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't.
again you're just being overly biased.
the knife guy does his thing? so I guess the bat guy is just going to sit on his ass and wait for the knife guy to stab him and he has this "40-60%" (i dont even know where the hell you come up with these stupid %s) chance to fuck up, good job being a physics nerd by talking about angular momentum
the sword analogy was used as a specific example to explain that length will normally get you first hit no matter what type of weapon you are using, dont bother saying stupid shit if you havent even read the content of my argument to start with
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k sorry got carried out...
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yah, you dont have to yell at us 
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too many random variables, so ya, we are just arguing whatever shit we think is better 
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Canada1564 Posts
yeah... it's not THAT hard to close the range. the bat has like maybe like 3 foot range where it's effective? and if the bat's swung prematurely, it leaves a huge opening for the knife guy to close in.
so the knife guy just has to be able to close in from 3 feet or so. and once he's close (like right next to) to the guy with the bat, the torque at that distance will be much less, so the attack will be much less damaging too. and while that's happening, you've already stabbed the guy once, and you're in close so can keep stabbing
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Depends on their skill level, even if theyre the same. If theyre both slow but strong, bat's the way to go for concussive damage. But if theyre both fast and agile, knife just does more hurt that the swing of a bat could.
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MURICA15980 Posts
On November 26 2006 12:35 Way wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote:
Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't. again you're just being overly biased. the knife guy does his thing? so I guess the bat guy is just going to sit on his ass and wait for the knife guy to stab him and he has this "40-60%" (i dont even know where the hell you come up with these stupid %s) chance to fuck up, good job being a physics nerd by talking about angular momentum the sword analogy was used as a specific example to explain that length will normally get you first hit no matter what type of weapon you are using, dont bother saying stupid shit if you havent even read the content of my argument to start with
Doing his thing is stabbing. Not hard. Good job.
40-60 is arbitrary numbers that basically make it 50-50 but which way it leans depends on arguments, so I just made it so it could go either way, but the average would be about half. I mean, seriously, do you think you would easily be able to time a swing JUST perfectly exactly when the guy jumps at you? You don't know WHEN he's jumping at you. And if you lunch foward and swing (which is much easier to read based on body language) a miss or even a weak strike = 100% failure.
And the sword argument is the analogy for a fucking retard. How do you compare a sword with a bat? The main basis for this "fight" simulation is the one-strike deadly kill that is short range versus long range non-deadly-with-one-strike. Way to take all the advantages of the former and give it to the latter, fucking moron. That's why it doesn't make sense. So why dont you think about it before saying stupid shit.
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Canada1564 Posts
On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote:
EDIT: Okay, I'm thinking about it more, and the knife guy for sure. The bat guy doesn't know for sure WHEN the knife guy may attack (he has to defend because attacking is suicidal here). So if you picture it, the bat guy must have the bat cocked back waiting for the opportunity to strike. He swings too early and he's done for and he knows it. If he swings late or not hard enough, he's done. There's just too much "perfect" to do. The knife guy can fake a few times and then jump in. The surprise of it usually would allow the swing to be less than full force. I'd say the best way to use the bat may even to use the butt of it and bring it down on the knife assalients head if he gets in that close without bat guy taking a swing yet, and try to knock him out or just temprary ground the guy, even if it means taking a shot in the stomach with the knife. Then it's just a matter of stabbing the knife guy with his open weapon when he's out for a while -- but this is a really dependent on where you get stabbed -- a heart strike would be fatal fast.
good post
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On November 26 2006 12:43 Klogon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2006 12:35 Way wrote:On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote:
Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't. again you're just being overly biased. the knife guy does his thing? so I guess the bat guy is just going to sit on his ass and wait for the knife guy to stab him and he has this "40-60%" (i dont even know where the hell you come up with these stupid %s) chance to fuck up, good job being a physics nerd by talking about angular momentum the sword analogy was used as a specific example to explain that length will normally get you first hit no matter what type of weapon you are using, dont bother saying stupid shit if you havent even read the content of my argument to start with Doing his thing is stabbing. Not hard. Good job. 40-60 is arbitrary numbers that basically make it 50-50 but which way it leans depends on arguments, so I just made it so it could go either way, but the average would be about half. I mean, seriously, do you think you would easily be able to time a swing JUST perfectly exactly when the guy jumps at you? You don't know WHEN he's jumping at you. And if you lunch foward and swing (which is much easier to read based on body language) a miss or even a weak strike = 100% failure. And the sword argument is the analogy for a fucking retard. How do you compare a sword with a bat? The main basis for this "fight" simulation is the one-strike deadly kill that is short range versus long range non-deadly-with-one-strike. Way to take all the advantages of the former and give it to the latter, fucking moron. That's why it doesn't make sense. So why dont you think about it before saying stupid shit.
I think the sword was an excellent analogy, as people are failing to understand the ability of the bat to damage. Also, when people think of sword fighter they think of an ability to wield a sword and move at the same time... something even more possible with the lighter baseball bat.
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with the bat you will break an arm at best. with a knife you will kill. knife win
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On November 26 2006 12:43 Klogon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2006 12:35 Way wrote:On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote:
Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't. again you're just being overly biased. the knife guy does his thing? so I guess the bat guy is just going to sit on his ass and wait for the knife guy to stab him and he has this "40-60%" (i dont even know where the hell you come up with these stupid %s) chance to fuck up, good job being a physics nerd by talking about angular momentum the sword analogy was used as a specific example to explain that length will normally get you first hit no matter what type of weapon you are using, dont bother saying stupid shit if you havent even read the content of my argument to start with Doing his thing is stabbing. Not hard. Good job. 40-60 is arbitrary numbers that basically make it 50-50 but which way it leans depends on arguments, so I just made it so it could go either way, but the average would be about half. I mean, seriously, do you think you would easily be able to time a swing JUST perfectly exactly when the guy jumps at you? You don't know WHEN he's jumping at you. And if you lunch foward and swing (which is much easier to read based on body language) a miss or even a weak strike = 100% failure. And the sword argument is the analogy for a fucking retard. How do you compare a sword with a bat? The main basis for this "fight" simulation is the one-strike deadly kill that is short range versus long range non-deadly-with-one-strike. Way to take all the advantages of the former and give it to the latter, fucking moron. That's why it doesn't make sense. So why dont you think about it before saying stupid shit.
the scenario is already given that the two fighters have equal skill, and all you're doing is taking the subject like some lameass math problem
how do i compare a sword with a bat? because i m just trying to reinforce the image that a heavier object that is longer does not make it more difficult to hit someone with a lot shorter weapon, since apparently so many of you see the guy with the knife as some dodging genius that can avoid these bat strikes, and that the bat makes it much more difficult to get a hit on a guy with a knife
its not that hard to picture
that and you still don't bother to see the context of why i wrote about the sword in teh first place, so why dont you stop being a fag and think about what you say first?
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On November 26 2006 12:46 Wysp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2006 12:43 Klogon wrote:On November 26 2006 12:35 Way wrote:On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote:
Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't. again you're just being overly biased. the knife guy does his thing? so I guess the bat guy is just going to sit on his ass and wait for the knife guy to stab him and he has this "40-60%" (i dont even know where the hell you come up with these stupid %s) chance to fuck up, good job being a physics nerd by talking about angular momentum the sword analogy was used as a specific example to explain that length will normally get you first hit no matter what type of weapon you are using, dont bother saying stupid shit if you havent even read the content of my argument to start with Doing his thing is stabbing. Not hard. Good job. 40-60 is arbitrary numbers that basically make it 50-50 but which way it leans depends on arguments, so I just made it so it could go either way, but the average would be about half. I mean, seriously, do you think you would easily be able to time a swing JUST perfectly exactly when the guy jumps at you? You don't know WHEN he's jumping at you. And if you lunch foward and swing (which is much easier to read based on body language) a miss or even a weak strike = 100% failure. And the sword argument is the analogy for a fucking retard. How do you compare a sword with a bat? The main basis for this "fight" simulation is the one-strike deadly kill that is short range versus long range non-deadly-with-one-strike. Way to take all the advantages of the former and give it to the latter, fucking moron. That's why it doesn't make sense. So why dont you think about it before saying stupid shit. I think the sword was an excellent analogy, as people are failing to understand the ability of the bat to damage. Also, when people think of sword fighter they think of an ability to wield a sword and move at the same time... something even more possible with the lighter baseball bat.
thanks you know what i m talking about
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**with the bat you will break an arm at best. with a knife you will kill. knife win**
what the fuck, a bat cant kill ?? ok thats good to know next time i get my skull cracked with a bat
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Hard to say, but if the guy with the knife come close and is not close to failing unconcious you are pretty fucked because you will die and maybe not him.
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id take knife
you need to swing bat really hard at head to fracture skull = kill
or swing hard at ribs to break ribs = kill
or swing hard at legs and break legs = no mobility and then kill
but knife
stab into the sides of the body, neck, thigh and then twist knife when inside wound = gg no re bleeding
just block his bat swing and break your forearm and then counter stab, he wont be able to retract bat and swing again.
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On November 26 2006 11:58 Cloud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2006 11:28 Sadist wrote:On November 26 2006 11:26 Cloud wrote:On November 26 2006 11:22 BeSiGeR wrote:
not everyone knows how to throw a knife, and it could miss too You dont need to know how to throw a knife, missing a throw when hes that close is retarded, just take a well balanced knife like that one, throw it against a wall or whatever, and you will see that its not so damn hard to throw a knife. youd better make sure it lands in his throat or cuts a nerve or something otherwise you will be fucked Lands on the throat? Cuts a nerve? This isnt a fucking sharpened pencil dude, any area near the chest where a knife hits you is mortal. And once your knife lands on him, your fists and feet will prove much stronger than a stabbed guy with a bat
I was talking about you throwing a knife, because it better do damage enough to make it so i couldnt hit you in the face with my bat while you are unarmed.
A single stab wound or a knife being thrown at you wont disable you unless you are hit in certain spots.
If you threw a knife and it landed in my stomach, sure it would fuck me up really bad depending on how hard you through it and how far it went in, but id still be able to hit you in the face with my bat for a short while
and its true, a bat is no heavier than a sword for the most part so i dont see how you ninja freaks are making it seem like the agility of the person with the bat would be fucked yet if a person had a sword it wouldnt matter
I stand by what i was saying that no average person in their right mind would try fighting another average person with a knife if they had a bat. Youd need to sneak up on them or something or be right ontop of them because all ittakes is one decent hit with a bat and you are disoriented or on the ground
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On November 26 2006 12:52 fusionsdf wrote:
with the bat you will break an arm at best. with a knife you will kill. knife win
Knife blows aren't always fatal. Slashing is far easier with a knife than stabbing. Hell, a stab to the gut is the easiest potential fatal blow to score, but is not an 'instant kill.' A slash to the chest is insanely painful but the ribcage is still effective against a slash and against many stabs.
Baseball bat wins, sorry. You're not even going to get close enough to knick your baseball wielding counter-part.
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erm. swing hard,?? ever been hit in the head with solid wood?? if the force is just enough to send you to the floor u are a dead man, how cant you people see that the bat doesent have to kill with one hit, it just has to send you to the ground, the next 4-5 hits will kill you, we got so many fucking terminators here who wouldnt even flinch at a bat smashing their arms.
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EPT
