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Any PUA discussion is banned from page 42 and onwards. |
On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 03:12 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:07 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:05 Plansix wrote:
This thread has degraded into one of the creepiest things I have read all week. A discussion about a mass shooting degrades down to "it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find."
Why are people looking for grains of truth in the clearly crazy mans writings? The guy was clearly nuts and the reason that women might have rejected him was likely that he was a creepy fuck. No one like a creeper. "it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find." is a direct causation to the event. He specifically murdered attractive girls because of his frustration. No degradation, just a logical segway. Except he was crazy and that just happened to the thing he latched on to. If he had be accepted by some attractive woman, he still would have been nuts and unstable. His mental state is likely completely independent of his relationship status. Just like people with OCD don't really have a problem with germs, they condition just manifests that way. Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons. Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important.
not if you concede to the idea that even if some hot girl was fucking him, he'd still snap.
if you don't think that's the case, then I'm unsure how you'd try to convince everyone that forty year old virgins are out there slaughtering people daily.
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On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:12 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:07 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:05 Plansix wrote:
This thread has degraded into one of the creepiest things I have read all week. A discussion about a mass shooting degrades down to "it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find."
Why are people looking for grains of truth in the clearly crazy mans writings? The guy was clearly nuts and the reason that women might have rejected him was likely that he was a creepy fuck. No one like a creeper. "it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find." is a direct causation to the event. He specifically murdered attractive girls because of his frustration. No degradation, just a logical segway. Except he was crazy and that just happened to the thing he latched on to. If he had be accepted by some attractive woman, he still would have been nuts and unstable. His mental state is likely completely independent of his relationship status. Just like people with OCD don't really have a problem with germs, they condition just manifests that way. Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons. Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual.
Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed.
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He visited bodybuilding forums. --> Abolish bodybuilding!
He was of aristocratic descent. --> Take a closer look at those aristocrats!
His father is a director of violent movies. --> Put an end to violence in movies!
His parents got divorced. --> Punish people who get divorced!
He visited PUA forums. --> Those creepers. Put an end to this!
He used a gun to kill people. --> Ha! It's the guns! Abolish guns!
He used a knife to kill people. --> Of course! It's the knives! Abolish knives!
He was very lonely. --> Put lonely people under observation!
He is half Asian. --> It's the Asians. I knew it!
He is autistic--> Autistic people are killers. Lock them up!
Girls didn't respect him. --> It's feminism! Abolish!
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On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:12 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:07 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:05 Plansix wrote:
This thread has degraded into one of the creepiest things I have read all week. A discussion about a mass shooting degrades down to "it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find."
Why are people looking for grains of truth in the clearly crazy mans writings? The guy was clearly nuts and the reason that women might have rejected him was likely that he was a creepy fuck. No one like a creeper. "it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find." is a direct causation to the event. He specifically murdered attractive girls because of his frustration. No degradation, just a logical segway. Except he was crazy and that just happened to the thing he latched on to. If he had be accepted by some attractive woman, he still would have been nuts and unstable. His mental state is likely completely independent of his relationship status. Just like people with OCD don't really have a problem with germs, they condition just manifests that way. Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons. Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed.
Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors.
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On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:12 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:07 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:05 Plansix wrote:
This thread has degraded into one of the creepiest things I have read all week. A discussion about a mass shooting degrades down to "it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find."
Why are people looking for grains of truth in the clearly crazy mans writings? The guy was clearly nuts and the reason that women might have rejected him was likely that he was a creepy fuck. No one like a creeper. "it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find." is a direct causation to the event. He specifically murdered attractive girls because of his frustration. No degradation, just a logical segway. Except he was crazy and that just happened to the thing he latched on to. If he had be accepted by some attractive woman, he still would have been nuts and unstable. His mental state is likely completely independent of his relationship status. Just like people with OCD don't really have a problem with germs, they condition just manifests that way. Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons. Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors.
Why do you keep citing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women.
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On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:12 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:07 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
"it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find." is a direct causation to the event.
He specifically murdered attractive girls because of his frustration.
No degradation, just a logical segway. Except he was crazy and that just happened to the thing he latched on to. If he had be accepted by some attractive woman, he still would have been nuts and unstable. His mental state is likely completely independent of his relationship status. Just like people with OCD don't really have a problem with germs, they condition just manifests that way. Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons. Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women.
I feel sorry for him, to squander is good looks and good parentage (rich family, no?) just for killing random strangers. When I saw some of his posts, I could understand a little bit of his pain. I had not kissed a girl when I was 22, and was a virgin as well. At 26 now, I have learned to just be myself with the girls (and people in general, lol) - and that's for the best in the long run.
First noble truth of Buddhism - everybody suffers. If only he knew he isn't alone in his struggle, no matter how he viewed it, it might have lent itself to a non-violent outcome.
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On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:12 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:07 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
"it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find." is a direct causation to the event.
He specifically murdered attractive girls because of his frustration.
No degradation, just a logical segway. Except he was crazy and that just happened to the thing he latched on to. If he had be accepted by some attractive woman, he still would have been nuts and unstable. His mental state is likely completely independent of his relationship status. Just like people with OCD don't really have a problem with germs, they condition just manifests that way. Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons. Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep citing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women.
I don't think anyone blames women or takes anything he said as facts about the world. But we can easily tell how he felt about women by reading what he wrote. And its frightening that he found similar minded communities to join.
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On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:12 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:07 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
"it my nature to try to knock up the hottest woman I can find." is a direct causation to the event.
He specifically murdered attractive girls because of his frustration.
No degradation, just a logical segway. Except he was crazy and that just happened to the thing he latched on to. If he had be accepted by some attractive woman, he still would have been nuts and unstable. His mental state is likely completely independent of his relationship status. Just like people with OCD don't really have a problem with germs, they condition just manifests that way. Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons. Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women.
Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact.
And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around.
He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers.
Really, this kid was just a perfect storm:
Asperger's Syndrome - Inability to socially mirror or relate to other people, pick up on social cues, etc.
Neglectful parenting - In his manifesto he relates stories about saving his younger brother when he was an infant from drowning while his parents were present in the home. In another he describes how he was left by himself outside a tourism stop by himself as a 4-year-old.
Narcissistic Hollywood Culture - He obsesses over his own looks, the looks of others. He wanted a perfect bombshell blonde. This kid was an awkward virgin but he was turning up his nose at 7s because he felt he deserved only the best. Insane entitlement due to a life of real privilege and a failure on his parents' part to instill loss or lack at a young age.
Bullying and Friendlessness - This goes beyond basic socially corrective teasing that you may get from peers growing up and gets labelled as bullying. This kid had no allies, no support structure. No parents to turn to, no shoulder to cry on. He was utterly alone and due to his pre-existing mental conditions, found it difficult to relate or understand other people. In fact, his own stepmother was cruel to him and took advantage of moments where he would admit weakness to her by comparing her to his much more socially adept brother (her biological son from what I gather).
All these factors combined in one individual to make someone so bitter, so eaten up with envy, that his only recourse was to recede into narcissism to shore up his incredibly fragile ego and eventually descend into megalomania, dehumanizing those he envied and those he saw as denying him the affection and attention he craved.
It wasn't just sex, and prostitution would not have helped him as his mind become more unhinged. This kid needed real human contact and love. Even by the end of his manifesto he decries sex and devolves into power fantasies about becoming a world conquering dictator who abolishes sex from the human race, making people breed only by artificial insemination. By this point he hated sex and saw it as a fundamental biological flaw in human nature, keeping people from true egalitarianism.
It wasn't that he was "born" to be lunatic was rather "created" to be one.
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On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:12 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Except he was crazy and that just happened to the thing he latched on to. If he had be accepted by some attractive woman, he still would have been nuts and unstable. His mental state is likely completely independent of his relationship status. Just like people with OCD don't really have a problem with germs, they condition just manifests that way. Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons. Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers.
Dude, stop defending this person. It's a bad look. You are buying into the (bullshit/crazy) justifications of a mass murderer.
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On May 29 2014 04:27 Rho_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons.
Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers. Dude, stop defending this person. It's a bad look. You are buying into the (bullshit/crazy) justifications of a mass murderer.
This is not an intellectually honest post, since I'm sure the mass murderer believed in gravity too but that doesn't mean we should disbelieve it, or arguing for gravity is "defending him"
that being said, you're still right, and the guy was clearly just a nutter. if "those problems" were alleviated, he'd still be a nutter. the only "problem" is that he's a nutter who shot some people imo
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On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:12 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Except he was crazy and that just happened to the thing he latched on to. If he had be accepted by some attractive woman, he still would have been nuts and unstable. His mental state is likely completely independent of his relationship status. Just like people with OCD don't really have a problem with germs, they condition just manifests that way. Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons. Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers.
Those things have happened to other people and they did not go on killing sprees. If he had received effective mental services or law enforcement had stepped in earlier, he might have been stopped. If women had been nice to him(and we are assuming that what he wrote is true and not some elaborate set of lies) there is a good chance he would still have been unstable.
You seem really committed to proving to is that it was the fault of mean women that cause him to lose his mind.
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On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:12 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Except he was crazy and that just happened to the thing he latched on to. If he had be accepted by some attractive woman, he still would have been nuts and unstable. His mental state is likely completely independent of his relationship status. Just like people with OCD don't really have a problem with germs, they condition just manifests that way. Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons. Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers. Really, this kid was just a perfect storm: Asperger's Syndrome - Inability to socially mirror or relate to other people, pick up on social cues, etc. Neglectful parenting - In his manifesto he relates stories about saving his younger brother when he was an infant from drowning while his parents were present in the home. In another he describes how he was left by himself outside a tourism stop by himself as a 4-year-old. Narcissistic Hollywood Culture - He obsesses over his own looks, the looks of others. He wanted a perfect bombshell blonde. This kid was an awkward virgin but he was turning up his nose at 7s because he felt he deserved only the best. Insane entitlement due to a life of real privilege and a failure on his parents' part to instill loss or lack at a young age. Bullying and Friendlessness - This goes beyond basic socially corrective teasing that you may get from peers growing up and gets labelled as bullying. This kid had no allies, no support structure. No parents to turn to, no shoulder to cry on. He was utterly alone and due to his pre-existing mental conditions, found it difficult to relate or understand other people. In fact, his own stepmother was cruel to him and took advantage of moments where he would admit weakness to her by comparing her to his much more socially adept brother (her biological son from what I gather). All these factors combined in one individual to make someone so bitter, so eaten up with envy, that his only recourse was to recede into narcissism to shore up his incredibly fragile ego and eventually descend into megalomania, dehumanizing those he envied and those he saw as denying him the affection and attention he craved. It wasn't just sex, and prostitution would not have helped him as his mind become more unhinged. This kid needed real human contact and love. Even by the end of his manifesto he decries sex and devolves into power fantasies about becoming a world conquering dictator who abolishes sex from the human race, making people breed only by artificial insemination. By this point he hated sex and saw it as a fundamental biological flaw in human nature, keeping people from true egalitarianism. It wasn't that he was "born" to be lunatic was rather "created" to be one.
I didn't realize freudian psychoanalysis was still around, even though it hasn't been practiced for decades. Dude, the thing you have to realize is that it is perfectly possible to be 'born' a lunatic. You're also creating a false dichotomy here by indicating that he CAN'T have been BOTH born with mental illness AND had an environment conducive to fostering his illness rather than treating it. Now, I'm not going to speculate about the extent to which Eliot Roger's problems were nature vs nurture, but everyone is shaped by both, and in significant amounts. To simply dismiss one or the other is flat out wrong.
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On May 29 2014 05:12 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons.
Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers. Really, this kid was just a perfect storm: Asperger's Syndrome - Inability to socially mirror or relate to other people, pick up on social cues, etc. Neglectful parenting - In his manifesto he relates stories about saving his younger brother when he was an infant from drowning while his parents were present in the home. In another he describes how he was left by himself outside a tourism stop by himself as a 4-year-old. Narcissistic Hollywood Culture - He obsesses over his own looks, the looks of others. He wanted a perfect bombshell blonde. This kid was an awkward virgin but he was turning up his nose at 7s because he felt he deserved only the best. Insane entitlement due to a life of real privilege and a failure on his parents' part to instill loss or lack at a young age. Bullying and Friendlessness - This goes beyond basic socially corrective teasing that you may get from peers growing up and gets labelled as bullying. This kid had no allies, no support structure. No parents to turn to, no shoulder to cry on. He was utterly alone and due to his pre-existing mental conditions, found it difficult to relate or understand other people. In fact, his own stepmother was cruel to him and took advantage of moments where he would admit weakness to her by comparing her to his much more socially adept brother (her biological son from what I gather). All these factors combined in one individual to make someone so bitter, so eaten up with envy, that his only recourse was to recede into narcissism to shore up his incredibly fragile ego and eventually descend into megalomania, dehumanizing those he envied and those he saw as denying him the affection and attention he craved. It wasn't just sex, and prostitution would not have helped him as his mind become more unhinged. This kid needed real human contact and love. Even by the end of his manifesto he decries sex and devolves into power fantasies about becoming a world conquering dictator who abolishes sex from the human race, making people breed only by artificial insemination. By this point he hated sex and saw it as a fundamental biological flaw in human nature, keeping people from true egalitarianism. It wasn't that he was "born" to be lunatic was rather "created" to be one. I didn't realize freudian psychoanalysis was still around, even though it hasn't been practiced for decades. Dude, the thing you have to realize is that it is perfectly possible to be 'born' a lunatic. You're also creating a false dichotomy here by indicating that he CAN'T have been BOTH born with mental illness AND had an environment conducive to fostering his illness rather than treating it. Now, I'm not going to speculate about the extent to which Eliot Roger's problems were nature vs nurture, but everyone is shaped by both, and in significant amounts. To simply dismiss one or the other is flat out wrong.
Feels a bit like people are talking over each other - some good points being made. There isn't much we can do about nature, so I don't see a point in nature v. nurture debate.
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On May 29 2014 01:38 Jibba wrote:
You make it sound like we're neanderthals who should just go outside and beat things with a stick.
There's plenty of ways to express yourself, and I'm almost certain you're facing almost zero oppression in your life.
This reeks of more MRA bullshit. All you're doing is tying in pseudo-scientific evolutionary hogwash to justify the 'boys will be boys' defense. "It's just natural that men express themselves physically and violently!" If you want to take out aggression, go to the gym. Or simply relax instead. Either way, don't frame it as if it's an involuntary situation.
Most of the "oppression" discourse is narcissism, and very little else. What exactly makes you think you'd personally be capable of identifying "oppression" if it existed? Using feminist logic, after all, that oppression would be structural, embedded within a culture of assumptions that unknowingly marginalize a given segment of the population.
If you earnestly believe that to be the case, while also believing that within you is the ability to see all of the relevant structures for a discussion on "oppression," such that you can personality judge the validity of MRA claims as bullshit or not, then you are implicitly elevating yourself into a Godlike position. It's nothing more than narcissism.
And anyone believing themselves capable of attributing an event like this to a discernible cause is much the same.
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On May 29 2014 04:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:15 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
Then why couldn't he manifest this anger at something else like a political movement or with other reasons.
Why specifically at attractive girls? The topic of his "burst" is important. Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers. Those things have happened to other people and they did not go on killing sprees. If he had received effective mental services or law enforcement had stepped in earlier, he might have been stopped. If women had been nice to him(and we are assuming that what he wrote is true and not some elaborate set of lies) there is a good chance he would still have been unstable. You seem really committed to proving to is that it was the fault of mean women that cause him to lose his mind.
I'm saying that if the women were a bit nicer to him, it could decrease the chance of him lashing out. To put in the nature vs nurture argument: Yeah in his nature, he might be a bit in the outlier in terms of "normality" but as long as the nurture doesn't exasperate those traits, this further decreases his ability to take action.
You can't argue against that.
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On May 29 2014 06:09 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:19 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Because he wa crazy and that is what he latched on to. You don't get to pick what you focus on when you are nuts. Other people have gone on killing sprees because their dog Sam told them to do it. The reason he killed all those people was because he was unstable and no one stopped him. It has very little to do with women. It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them. Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder. So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers. Those things have happened to other people and they did not go on killing sprees. If he had received effective mental services or law enforcement had stepped in earlier, he might have been stopped. If women had been nice to him(and we are assuming that what he wrote is true and not some elaborate set of lies) there is a good chance he would still have been unstable. You seem really committed to proving to is that it was the fault of mean women that cause him to lose his mind. I'm saying that if the women were a bit nicer to him, it could decrease the chance of him lashing out. To put in the nature vs nurture argument: Yeah in his nature, he might be a bit in the outlier in terms of "normality" but as long as the nurture doesn't exasperate those traits, this further decreases his ability to take action. You can't argue against that.
There is also the possibility that women being nicer to him wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.
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On May 29 2014 06:21 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 06:09 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them.
Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder.
So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers. Those things have happened to other people and they did not go on killing sprees. If he had received effective mental services or law enforcement had stepped in earlier, he might have been stopped. If women had been nice to him(and we are assuming that what he wrote is true and not some elaborate set of lies) there is a good chance he would still have been unstable. You seem really committed to proving to is that it was the fault of mean women that cause him to lose his mind. I'm saying that if the women were a bit nicer to him, it could decrease the chance of him lashing out. To put in the nature vs nurture argument: Yeah in his nature, he might be a bit in the outlier in terms of "normality" but as long as the nurture doesn't exasperate those traits, this further decreases his ability to take action. You can't argue against that. There is also the possibility that women being nicer to him wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.
Well at least they've tried. If you didn't try in the first place, then you are an accomplice.
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On May 29 2014 06:24 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 06:21 MstrJinbo wrote:On May 29 2014 06:09 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers. Those things have happened to other people and they did not go on killing sprees. If he had received effective mental services or law enforcement had stepped in earlier, he might have been stopped. If women had been nice to him(and we are assuming that what he wrote is true and not some elaborate set of lies) there is a good chance he would still have been unstable. You seem really committed to proving to is that it was the fault of mean women that cause him to lose his mind. I'm saying that if the women were a bit nicer to him, it could decrease the chance of him lashing out. To put in the nature vs nurture argument: Yeah in his nature, he might be a bit in the outlier in terms of "normality" but as long as the nurture doesn't exasperate those traits, this further decreases his ability to take action. You can't argue against that. There is also the possibility that women being nicer to him wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. Well at least they've tried. If you didn't try in the first place, then you are an accomplice.
are you fucking kidding me
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On May 29 2014 06:21 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 06:09 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:23 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
It’s important to state that Elliot Rodger was undoubtedly mentally unstable and required professional supervision. Diagnosed with Asperger’s, he clearly exhibited narcissistic and sociopathic traits that no doubt prevented him from empathizing with others. Nonetheless, his videos and writings do display an above-average intelligence and the propensity to connect with individuals in certain cases. He was not that much worse off than many socially awkward males who grew up isolated as teenagers, unable to perform well in social interactions. There are men who functioned lower than him, but were later able to successfully meet average-looking women and achieve intimacy with them.
Rodger’s manifesto clearly states that his utter failure with women drove him to murder.
So the bottom line is that if he was able to get girls, his life would have been just happy enough to not do anything crazy, could've definitely help to alleviate those unnecessary death. That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers. Those things have happened to other people and they did not go on killing sprees. If he had received effective mental services or law enforcement had stepped in earlier, he might have been stopped. If women had been nice to him(and we are assuming that what he wrote is true and not some elaborate set of lies) there is a good chance he would still have been unstable. You seem really committed to proving to is that it was the fault of mean women that cause him to lose his mind. I'm saying that if the women were a bit nicer to him, it could decrease the chance of him lashing out. To put in the nature vs nurture argument: Yeah in his nature, he might be a bit in the outlier in terms of "normality" but as long as the nurture doesn't exasperate those traits, this further decreases his ability to take action. You can't argue against that. There is also the possibility that women being nicer to him wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.
Agreed. The main point should be that treatment and intervention would have helped far more than the hope "that women being nice to him" would have improved his mental state. The real silver bullet would have been law enforcement stopping him before he was able to hurt anyone.
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On May 29 2014 06:24 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 06:21 MstrJinbo wrote:On May 29 2014 06:09 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:30 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:21 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 04:10 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 04:01 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:41 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2014 03:36 Xiphos wrote:On May 29 2014 03:30 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
That's not correct. You are assuming that he had the ability to assess why he did the things he did. He was mentally unstable and clearly the person we should be trusting to assess what drove him to murder. It would be nice to think that his writings would provide a clear reason for his actions, but his views on reality were so warped and they can only provide a window into how sick he was. He did assess it, he fully explained why he was planing to do it (and eventually went for it) in his writing explicitly with clear thinking process. His mental state wasn't that it was unstable, it was TOO stable. He was TOO stubborn to not look at any other means and was VERY close-minded individual. Even lunatics can write clearly, it doesn't mean he didn't see the world in a warped way or anything he wrote was correct. R was crazy and anything he wrote needs to be views through that lens. Nothing can be take at face value. Women were not the cause of him doing what he did, it's just what he blamed. Except he wasn't always a lunatic, if you read his manifesto, he clearly described at what moment in his life did he begin to exhibit his current behaviors. Why do you keep suing the crazy man's writing as evidence? That thing is not fact or proof of anything. It is the rambling a of a sad, sick person who lost his mind and blamed women for the pain he was in. They were not the cause of him losing his grip. He was not driven to madness by women. Because if those problems were alleviated, it plummets the chances of his killing. That's a fact. And it was stated by himself that his step mother treated him very badly and during one incident in his camp, a girl treated him badly by pushing him around. He grew up in a childhood where he was continually being neglected by his mother, his step-mother, and his female peers. Those things have happened to other people and they did not go on killing sprees. If he had received effective mental services or law enforcement had stepped in earlier, he might have been stopped. If women had been nice to him(and we are assuming that what he wrote is true and not some elaborate set of lies) there is a good chance he would still have been unstable. You seem really committed to proving to is that it was the fault of mean women that cause him to lose his mind. I'm saying that if the women were a bit nicer to him, it could decrease the chance of him lashing out. To put in the nature vs nurture argument: Yeah in his nature, he might be a bit in the outlier in terms of "normality" but as long as the nurture doesn't exasperate those traits, this further decreases his ability to take action. You can't argue against that. There is also the possibility that women being nicer to him wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. Well at least they've tried. If you didn't try in the first place, then you are an accomplice.
Plz son, the fault is all his. Don't try to pin this on anyone but him.
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EPT
