EPTRace and Gender perceptions in desirability - Page 4
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phar
United States1080 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On May 10 2014 10:03 phar wrote: I think you can't make generalizations based on the ethnic makeup of a single program from a single Uni. For example there exist a large number of US Uni grad programs in engineering / science which are like <20% white. I am not, of course I don't have perfect information, but from my personal experiences in the past, speaking to people in the industry, seeing statistics, as well as doing some of my own research, I feel like my viewpoint has its merit. By all means, if you have some points to bring into the discussion and have a desire to have a two hour skype discussion-debate surrounding this topic, it'd be very possible, however getting a point across about a very touchy subject on a forum, in a place where most readers have limited attention spans and many do not have a desire to (1) read everything written throughout, and (2) accept these opinions instead of getting hostile towards them. Especially from someone who can't easily provide you verifiable credentials. Either way, this issue, if that's what you want to call it, is logical to me, it can be explained why it all occurs, and it's the result of several factors at play. I do think that the internet exaggerates these concerns however, because it's easy to make yourself the victim of something, and linking your inability to attract girls to your ethnicity is a way to achieve that. And while that argument holds merit (As I have described in my previous posts), I believe - like many others, that the root of this phenomenon is based on the life decisions of the individual rather than the skin they were born with. And in the general sense, white men make the "right" decisions with respect to winning over a partner, relative to other races of men. | ||
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phar
United States1080 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On May 10 2014 10:34 phar wrote: Your viewpoint may have merit, yes, I don't know. I'm just saying that talking about a single Uni's program doesn't help your argument at all. I gave one example, because if I listed 10 examples, nobody would bother to read them all. | ||
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hp.Shell
United States2527 Posts
On May 10 2014 10:36 FiWiFaKi wrote: I gave one example, because if I listed 10 examples, nobody would bother to read them all. Except maybe the Asians (because they stereotypically read more) and people who read more than others. :D | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On May 10 2014 10:17 FiWiFaKi wrote: And in the general sense, white men make the "right" decisions with respect to winning over a partner, relative to other races of men. wow... racist much? This is the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while. Girls totally think about decisionmaking potential and not appearances when they click yes/no based on a picture. It couldn't have something to do with the avengers being all white (except Hulk when angry and one-eyed Nick) and the general dominance of heroic white guys as leading men in the media from disney right through to Game of Thrones. On May 10 2014 05:03 FiWiFaKi wrote: a large percentage of Asian guys don't really care about their image very much... White girls are generally pretty wild... Many Asian men get cars really late, and are bad drivers. Damn, I see you love making massive generalisations based off of anecdotal high school/college experiences and stereotypes. Who cares that Korean men buy a quarter of the world's men's cosmetics? They are asian and thus 'don't really care about their image.' Just shove them in with the rest of the acne-ridden asian-american yugioh players at whatever high school/uni you went to. | ||
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Nightsz
Canada398 Posts
EDIT: fuck it nvm, im an idiot | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
This phenomena isn't nearly as strong in regions such the EU since unlike the US, since perceptions of race is a lot more honest as a dialogue. Racism obviously occurs between ethnicities but because it's not swept under the rug a la the US style, people are also more open about accepting other races. I was born in Shanghai and consider myself, quite Chinese. Initially when encountering these situations in the US, I've always had the perception that it was Caucasian racism which causes the majority of this effect but I've long since revised my opinion. I've never found any perceived issues dating Western women, and I've only encountered ONE instance where a girl flat out said she doesn't date Asians. (and even though, we went on two outings) Similarly, aside from 50-60 year olds who obviously are still engrained with more anti yellow biases, I've never seen any negative attentions from Caucasian men when I'm with my wife. What I HAVE encountered though is several instances where Asian American males think I've somehow "made it" by being married to a Westerner (and here I did it because she was sweet, attractive and intelligent ... who knew it was the color of her skin all along!). Similarly, I receive with my wife, many sour looks from Asian women, ESPECIALLY if they are with Western men. From my experience, most Asian Americans simply struggle too much with their identity. As a result, even my Western female friends who find Asian men attractive have difficulty dating any as they prefer some pretty boy from the Mainland rather than the yellow version of a Jersey Shore cutout you find around here. Meanwhile, you see for the female counterparts, several Asian American women flinging themselves at the first Caucasian they encounter (even when these very same Caucasians are considered undesirable in the generic dating pool). TL:DR, Asian Americans need to get their shit together if they really desire to break out of their own self inflicted racism. While ethnic barriers exist, this excuse becomes less and less valid in the modern world. | ||
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d00p
711 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On May 10 2014 11:22 hp.Shell wrote: Except maybe the Asians (because they stereotypically read more) and people who read more than others. :D hahahahaha Lol @fiwifaki even here in Asia itself I've never seen people playing Yugioh-like stuff before, let alone during LUNCHTIME.... Oh wait there's some anime club or card club with people playing pokemon or something but I seldom see them around. You're either lying or there's a really high concentration of nerdy/geeky asians in your university. I can agree with your other points about the conservative parents though. While I can agree that having a car is obviously desirable, calling every Asian a bad driver is something else. You're obviously biased. BTW We have shitty driving here in Malaysia because of the corrupted system where people have pay a bribe for their licenses and whatever driving is taught is badly done, not due to our race/genes. Since you're talking about Asian Americans this problem doesn't affect them. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On May 10 2014 15:28 JieXian wrote: hahahahaha Lol @fiwifaki even here in Asia itself I've never seen people playing Yugioh-like stuff before, let alone during LUNCHTIME.... Oh wait there's some anime club or card club with people playing pokemon or something but I seldom see them around. You're either lying or there's a really high concentration of nerdy/geeky asians in your university. I can agree with your other points about the conservative parents though. While I can agree that having a car is obviously desirable, calling every Asian a bad driver is something else. You're obviously biased. BTW We have shitty driving here in Malaysia because of the corrupted system where people have pay a bribe for their licenses and whatever driving is taught is badly done, not due to our race/genes. Since you're talking about Asian Americans this problem doesn't affect them. And this is the exact reason why I try to refrain myself from posting in threads unless I have a strong opinion. Like come on, can we at least expect some posting standards from one another to not assume such preposterous things. Do you really think I am arguing that every Asian person plays yugioh at lunch, or that every Asian person is a bad driver? Oh yes, I have nothing better to do than praise the white race on teamliquid and tell all the Asian people here that they suck. Do I really need to answer that question for you to know that? Come on man, we're on teamliquid, lets hold the person we speak with to a higher regard than the rest of the internet. Just like how young males have the higher insurance out of any demographic in Northern America doesn't mean that every young male is a bad driver, many young drivers will be better than some drivers from the best demographic of drivers, but as a whole they are considered the worst drivers. Asian drivers are statistically not good drivers, are feel less comfortable driving. Just a little research will yield you evidence to both of those statements. And with the same logic, you see more Asian students playing card games or reading manga than the average student, that is not to say every Asian person plays Yugioh at lunch. I don't have actual evidence for this, but from what I've seen, and every single person I've ever talked to, they have agreed, and that is why and how I'm formulating my argument on this subject. I know people don't like stereotyping, but what people need to realize is that they have their applications and uses. Statistics heavily relies on stereotyping, and putting samples into groups based on limited criteria, race is one of the ways this is done. Most forms of insurance stereotype, police officers stereotype, and in general stereotyping has it's applications. What is important to understand is when and to what extent stereotyping may be applied to yield a valid result or approximation. Due to many people being incompetent at doing this, stereotyping is seen as a bad thing to people who operate largely on emotions rather than mathematics. Anyway, apologies for using the word Asian so much, in most of my statements I was referring to the "yellow asians", Chinese and Koreans specifically as those are two dominant Asian immigration populations here. I don't know nearly as much about Malaysians as about other Asian ethnicities, but from what I understand, I would agree with you that they are quite a bit different from the typical Asian stereotypes, hence I should have been more specific. | ||
dravernor
Netherlands6192 Posts
On May 10 2014 15:28 JieXian wrote: hahahahaha Lol @fiwifaki even here in Asia itself I've never seen people playing Yugioh-like stuff before, let alone during LUNCHTIME.... Oh wait there's some anime club or card club with people playing pokemon or something but I seldom see them around. You're either lying or there's a really high concentration of nerdy/geeky asians in your university. I can agree with your other points about the conservative parents though. While I can agree that having a car is obviously desirable, calling every Asian a bad driver is something else. You're obviously biased. BTW We have shitty driving here in Malaysia because of the corrupted system where people have pay a bribe for their licenses and whatever driving is taught is badly done, not due to our race/genes. Since you're talking about Asian Americans this problem doesn't affect them. Driving down here in Africa is bad for the same reasons. Doesn't mean black people are genetically bad drivers either. Heh in our private schools we only had one or two Asians in any six year period, even though there were a lot of Chinese starting up businesses here. It seemed they preferred their children raised overseas and sent over once they'd graduated to help with the family business, because you would never see their kids around. Even now 98% of the Asians I do see here are elderly or middle aged, and married to either another Asian, or in a few cases, a black woman. So I don't really have a lot of experience to go on in my home country. But when studying at uni we had a bunch of Asian guys who used to hang out with my Asian classmate and a group of Asian girls. I overheard another one of my classmates saying to him the one afternoon 'you know, you should try dating a white girl or something. What is the point in being in such a multi-cultural, multi-racial country and not even looking at other girls?' Well, now he and his Dutch wife live in China. Anyway, that said, I agree on it being an important factor in dating if one member of the relationship at least has a car. It shows independence. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On May 10 2014 16:00 FiWiFaKi wrote: Asian drivers are statistically not good drivers, are feel less comfortable driving. Just a little research will yield you evidence to both of those statements. Did a little research. http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/east-beats-west-when-it-comes-to-road-manners-and-safety-20100616-ygjj.html Not sure how you gather they don't feel 'comfortable', but I guess you talked to some people and it matches with your own vast experience of asian drivers. On May 10 2014 16:00 FiWiFaKi wrote: stereotyping is seen as a bad thing to people who operate largely on emotions rather than mathematics. You talk about how important statistics and maths are yet rely on anecdotal evidence to make sweeping generalisations. My favorite being how white guys generally make better decisions and are thus more attractive to women than men of other races. Saying you're only talking about the 'yellow asians' (wtf) doesn't make it any better. FYI Chinese and Koreans are not the same. Just because something is a stereotype doesn't mean it's true or representative of North-East asians outside of whatever state you live in. Even if once true, stereotypes are prone to being perpetuated through confirmation bias. Without numbers, they're just a basis for slander. | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
On May 09 2014 16:12 Tatari wrote: In Southern California, you'll see Asian women with practically any other race BESIDE Asian men. Where I live (Heidelberg, Germany) I only ever see Asian girls with Asian boys. That might come down more to fact that they're either tourists or international students, though. Also, this poll shows me how oblivious I am about PCness in America and on TL, When I said I wasn't sexually attracted to black women, TL mods tore me a new asshole for being racist. Yet it seems perfectly fine to call a predilection for Asian women 'yellow fever'. This is very confusing. | ||
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Orlandu
China2450 Posts
On May 10 2014 14:03 KissBlade wrote: Many Asian Americans who grow up in the US, and specifically women, tend to wish to distance themselves from perceived Asian stereotypes by dating out of race. The desire to latch onto anything non Asian is actually much heavier than perceived "yellow fever". Hence why despite how Asians complain about yellow fever, even though many secretly enjoy the attention, you still see a higher % of Asians responding to whites rather than the other way around. There's also a significant self hate, insecurity issues among Asian Americans in the US due to how media shapes perceptions of them in the US. This phenomena isn't nearly as strong in regions such the EU since unlike the US, since perceptions of race is a lot more honest as a dialogue. Racism obviously occurs between ethnicities but because it's not swept under the rug a la the US style, people are also more open about accepting other races. I was born in Shanghai and consider myself, quite Chinese. Initially when encountering these situations in the US, I've always had the perception that it was Caucasian racism which causes the majority of this effect but I've long since revised my opinion. I've never found any perceived issues dating Western women, and I've only encountered ONE instance where a girl flat out said she doesn't date Asians. (and even though, we went on two outings) Similarly, aside from 50-60 year olds who obviously are still engrained with more anti yellow biases, I've never seen any negative attentions from Caucasian men when I'm with my wife. What I HAVE encountered though is several instances where Asian American males think I've somehow "made it" by being married to a Westerner (and here I did it because she was sweet, attractive and intelligent ... who knew it was the color of her skin all along!). Similarly, I receive with my wife, many sour looks from Asian women, ESPECIALLY if they are with Western men. From my experience, most Asian Americans simply struggle too much with their identity. As a result, even my Western female friends who find Asian men attractive have difficulty dating any as they prefer some pretty boy from the Mainland rather than the yellow version of a Jersey Shore cutout you find around here. Meanwhile, you see for the female counterparts, several Asian American women flinging themselves at the first Caucasian they encounter (even when these very same Caucasians are considered undesirable in the generic dating pool). TL:DR, Asian Americans need to get their shit together if they really desire to break out of their own self inflicted racism. While ethnic barriers exist, this excuse becomes less and less valid in the modern world. I pretty much agree with this, and I think it offers a very important perspective. I also think a big part of the problem is that in actuality many Asian cultures have a great deal of racism and xenophobia themselves (despite the fact that some people like to attribute all racism to Caucasians and Western society), and a lot of this carries over to Asian-Americans without them realizing it. Immigrants come over and raise their kids in such a way that, while they do usually assimilate into American society, there are still very heavy traces of culture and opinions from the motherland that are passed down. Mix that in with American society's unhealthy obsession with identity politics and topics of race, and this tends to create something much more problematic than you might find in places such as Europe, I think. This isn't the only source of problems of course, but I think what KissBlade wrote is something very important to consider that is often overlooked. I think many people born and raised in America tend to be ignorant of the effects that their own cultural background has on how they perceive everything, and this is definitely true for many Asian-Americans as well. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On May 10 2014 16:00 FiWiFaKi wrote: Do you really think I am arguing that every Asian person plays yugioh at lunch, or that every Asian person is a bad driver? Oh yes, I have nothing better to do than praise the white race on teamliquid and tell all the Asian people here that they suck. Asian drivers are statistically not good drivers, are feel less comfortable driving. Just a little research will yield you evidence to both of those statements. And with the same logic, you see more Asian students playing card games or reading manga than the average student, that is not to say every Asian person plays Yugioh at lunch. I don't have actual evidence for this, but from what I've seen, and every single person I've ever talked to, they have agreed, and that is why and how I'm formulating my argument on this subject. Due to many people being incompetent at doing this, stereotyping is seen as a bad thing to people who operate largely on emotions rather than mathematics. I don't know what you think it is you're doing but if you expect people to hold you to a higher standard than the rest of the Internet, you're certainly not getting off to a good start. I think perhaps, it's better for you to take your own advice and stop posting. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
His posts on gays are also pretty similar as well. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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