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On March 24 2014 23:26 TheFish7 wrote:
So how exactly does one triangulate a position from only one angle?
Because while they only had a Range position from the Satellite, it produces only 2 actual flight paths directions. Which is why the original post about locations was always just a "part" of the information. I think about 10 pages back, I even mentioned they could pretty easily figure out which path it went up, given the realities of the Flight Paths available. The Northern arc had to pass over a few locations that *should* have had active radar running, depending where the previous 5 Pings had shown. (Basically, the Sat data must have said it either flew straight through China or down to the Indian Ocean, which would have only required a few calls to China to sort out.)
But they never released that information. Which raises its own set of questions.
As for that area of the South Indian Ocean, it's some of the consistently worst seas in the World. Waves pretty much run all the way around the bottom of the world. There's no real land breaks. They are really unlikely to find any wreckage via surface ships.
Covering the area in listening Subs might catch the Black Boxes, but they're going to still be working off way too much pure-luck.
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On March 25 2014 00:31 ElMeanYo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2014 00:17 Antisocialmunky wrote:
They didn't use a triangle, they used a bunch of concentric range circles to get distance from satellite over time. Then they found the distances between the arcs to make a assumed airspeed (this makes a cone due to errors in calculation. That's why they traced the plane to 2 areas.
It looks like its over. They just declared everyone dead and are flying the relatives to Australia. So they declared everyone dead, yet they have no physical evidence that the plane even went down. Hmm...
Declaration is so the families can get life insurance benefits right now, and I think there is some kind of airline trust fund too that pays out on declaration of death.
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On March 25 2014 00:17 Antisocialmunky wrote:
They didn't use a triangle, they used a bunch of concentric range circles to get distance from satellite over time. Then they found the distances between the arcs to make a assumed airspeed (this makes a cone due to errors in calculation. That's why they traced the plane to 2 areas.
It looks like its over. They just declared everyone dead and are flying the relatives to Australia.
Satellite triangulation is just getting the time it takes for signal to reach and come back to a satellite, knowing how fast that signal moves you calculate a distance. You end up with a sphere in space around that satellite for possible positions. You add another satellite and you have 2 spheres where they overlap on the surfaces you end up with a circle that goes out into space, you add a third satellite you get 2 points of intersection between all three one in space one on the ground. With one satellite you have a surface on a sphere on on which it can exist. With just one satellite but several data points over a period of time you get a bunch of spheres from that you can get a referenceless direction and speed; as you know you know the direction and speed of the satellite and you know the plane will exist where the spheres don't overlap although it's a broad area you can just assume that the plane will follow at roughly the same elevation so you'd get a line on the earth.
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will they still search for the bodies in the depth of the ocean?
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Lalalaland34490 Posts
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On March 25 2014 00:56 Garnet wrote:
will they still search for the bodies in the depth of the ocean?
If they find the Black Boxes, like the Air France crash, there would also be some bodies there. Others, however, are likely lost to the seas.
Then we get the fun bits: the Flight Voice Recorder only works for the previous 2 hours.
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Sigh.
At least the families won't keep getting their hope high and crush again and again.
Now I hope at least they will know why it all happened.
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On March 25 2014 01:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2014 00:56 Garnet wrote:
will they still search for the bodies in the depth of the ocean? If they find the Black Boxes, like the Air France crash, there would also be some bodies there. Others, however, are likely lost to the seas. Then we get the fun bits: the Flight Voice Recorder only works for the previous 2 hours.
Yeah there's a good chance we'll never find out what happened even if they find the black box, wouldn't be the first time.
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On March 25 2014 00:46 TheFish7 wrote:From the NY Times today sourceShow nested quote +The Malaysian government has been less vocal lately about any findings from the police inquiry into the people on board the missing plane, including the captain, Zaharie Ahmad Shah, and the junior pilot in the cockpit, Fariq Abdul Hamid. Investigators and officials have said that the plane’s extraordinary trajectory, veering far off course just after its last radio contact with the ground, and the fact that its transponders stopped working at about the same time appeared to involve actions by someone experienced in aviation. Hishammuddin Hussein, the Malaysian defense minister and acting transport minister, said on Monday that the police had interviewed more than a hundred people, including relatives of each pilot. He said a committee was considering whether to make public the transcript of the pilots’ communications with air controllers before the plane disappeared.
The good sir is late since the complete transcript was leaked to journalists days ago. According to the preliminary analysis, the only real anomaly was an extra confirmation of flight level after it reached cruising altitude (source).
However, the main pilot seems to have recieved a mysterious 2 minute phone call from a woman using a "burner" phone just before departure. It is not a real burner, though, as phones without plans require registration in Malaysia, but the woman seems to have used a false identity to acquire it (source). At the same time data from his flight simulator is getting investigated. That angle seems open for new information. Either way, don't jump to conclusions about him yet. A lot of people have vouched for his professionalism and nothing of the already investigated angles about him has so far caused concern.
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What's "idiotic" about speculating something perfectly logical from the *officially* released information? Considering the likelihood that the plane crashed in the Indian Ocean by traveling in a direction *it had not traveled the entire time* since it ended contact, in an area with no reason for the autopilot to head towards, with no possible landing location, what's "idiotic" about assuming it was mostly following along flight lines, towards one of the areas in the world you could land & hide a 777?
Though the 'Stans further North were a more likely area. Plenty of abandoned Soviet runaways to get on the ground, hide the plane and offload whoever took the plane.
If they do find it in the Indian Ocean (i.e. the latest information holds up), the possibilities actually get far, far, FAR more outlandish.
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Finally this "breaking news story" can END
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No, this is historic. I am still amazed that it this day and age of NSA spying, worldwide communication, intense media coverage and global satellite coverage, that it is still possible for a big expensive plane with 200+ international people on board to disappear for more than 2 weeks and just now isolating the area of probable location. It will be talked about for every plane disappearance from now on.
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On March 25 2014 04:51 Taf the Ghost wrote:What's "idiotic" about speculating something perfectly logical from the *officially* released information? Considering the likelihood that the plane crashed in the Indian Ocean by traveling in a direction *it had not traveled the entire time* since it ended contact, in an area with no reason for the autopilot to head towards, with no possible landing location, what's "idiotic" about assuming it was mostly following along flight lines, towards one of the areas in the world you could land & hide a 777? Though the 'Stans further North were a more likely area. Plenty of abandoned Soviet runaways to get on the ground, hide the plane and offload whoever took the plane. If they do find it in the Indian Ocean (i.e. the latest information holds up), the possibilities actually get far, far, FAR more outlandish.
Was that satire or are you serious?
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This will one day make a really interesting episode of Mayday.
Very sad for the families though. I hope at least now they can have some closure.
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On March 25 2014 05:15 polgas wrote:
No, this is historic. I am still amazed that it this day and age of NSA spying, worldwide communication, intense media coverage and global satellite coverage, that it is still possible for a big expensive plane with 200+ international people on board to disappear for more than 2 weeks and just now isolating the area of probable location. It will be talked about for every plane disappearance from now on.
Not really id be impressive if it disappeared while flying over a developed nation with good radar nets, planes are tracked on the ground for the most part by technology developed in WWII with little improvements.
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Apprently French radio said that relatives have been told of the crash and death by phone text and were furious. I have no source, it was on RTL tonight (podcast of 7pm i think).
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I don't know if someone already brought this up, but how did the plane that was suppose to be heading toward china. Ended up in by coast of Perth, AUS?
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On March 25 2014 05:15 polgas wrote:
No, this is historic. I am still amazed that it this day and age of NSA spying, worldwide communication, intense media coverage and global satellite coverage, that it is still possible for a big expensive plane with 200+ international people on board to disappear for more than 2 weeks and just now isolating the area of probable location. It will be talked about for every plane disappearance from now on.
They crashed in the middle of the ocean where no one is looking. The world is still a pretty big space and most of it is utterly uninteresting oceans.
Not that hard to get lost there, esp with the lack of cooperation that is being reported.
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Exactly, Inmarsat was able to keep tabs for the time that the plane is airborne. Even with this info, other satellites were only finally able to spot something after 2 weeks have passed. Still, with these number of people on board, not one leak of intent is known.
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EPT
