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On October 04 2013 12:04 Kaitlin wrote:
So, Superfan was banned because mods decided to "look into" him as a result of his political postings. Welp, I guess I'm going to steer clear of posting any thoughts on anything. I guess you guys are left to your like-minded circle jerk here and never learn from anyone else with a different view point. Not that that ever actually happens by anyone in these forums, anyways.
Oh fuck off, most of us want him back. It was probably due to the fact that he got into a spat with Jibba.
Protip #1:
Don't fuck with the mods.
If you want to help, contribute in the website feedback thread.
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On October 04 2013 12:07 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 12:04 Kaitlin wrote:
So, Superfan was banned because mods decided to "look into" him as a result of his political postings. Welp, I guess I'm going to steer clear of posting any thoughts on anything. I guess you guys are left to your like-minded circle jerk here and never learn from anyone else with a different view point. Not that that ever actually happens by anyone in these forums, anyways. Oh fuck off, most of us want him back. It was probably due to the fact that he got into a spat with Jibba. Protip #1: Don't fuck with the mods. If you want to help, contribute in the website feedback thread.
No need to tell me to fuck off. I'm not directing anything toward posters in this thread. Simply making the point that his "position" was the reason mods (admittedly) "looked into" his history, leading to his ban. Thus, "debates" aren't actually debates, they will evolve into circle jerks among the like minded.
On another note, I'm totally shocked I have not seen a thread on the Range Rover vs. motorcycle incident in New York this past Sunday.
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Canada11350 Posts
Take complaints about moderation to website feedback, please.
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On October 04 2013 12:04 Kaitlin wrote:
So, Superfan was banned because mods decided to "look into" him as a result of his political postings. Welp, I guess I'm going to steer clear of posting any thoughts on anything. I guess you guys are left to your like-minded circle jerk here and never learn from anyone else with a different view point. Not that that ever actually happens by anyone in these forums, anyways.
Why are you going to steer clear? I am seriously interested in knowing how Republicans think, that aren't cherry picking or just closed minds.
Present clear evidence of your stance and why, and it will be accepted as a good debate. There's no need to fear anything unless you aare a PBU that's wary of attention imo.
Right now everything points at Republicans being irresponsible to their citizens, I would love to hear any good points you can make on Republican's side that can't be rebutted.
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Yeah clearly we were far from friends but I really did hope we could help him see some light.
Although I did read the previous post and he did ask to be banned on a previous account so he did kind of have it coming.
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On October 04 2013 12:25 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 12:04 Kaitlin wrote:
So, Superfan was banned because mods decided to "look into" him as a result of his political postings. Welp, I guess I'm going to steer clear of posting any thoughts on anything. I guess you guys are left to your like-minded circle jerk here and never learn from anyone else with a different view point. Not that that ever actually happens by anyone in these forums, anyways. Why are you going to steer clear? I am seriously interested in knowing how Republicans think, that aren't cherry picking or just closed minds. Present clear evidence of your stance and why, and it will be accepted as a good debate. There's no need to fear anything unless you aare a PBU that's wary of attention imo. Right now everything points at Republicans being irresponsible to their citizens, I would love to hear any good points you can make on Republican's side that can't be rebutted.
Ditto that. My problem with him wasn't his tone or anything like that just that he refused to see reason and would repeat the same talking points regardless of how debunked they had been.
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On October 04 2013 10:32 Mithhaike wrote:
4) The Republicans have failed to realise they are here to serve the people FIRST and FOREMOST instead of their party interests. They have turned a normal government procedure into a political exercise in a bid for power, causing hardship to at least 800,000 citizens. As a outsider viewing in, i am astounded at the amount of irresponsibility being shown here. Now if they hold the debt ceiling hostage too, they have will have shown they are incapable of running the country. Why?
Well, arguably they are serving the people that voted them. These are representatives, they represent the interest of people in certain state districts. Most of the people that voted for them, voted for them under the vow that they would repeal Obamacare. Whether or not these people are misinformed or not is another story, but they are doing what the people who voted them into office wanted them to do.
I believe it's safe to say though that these people are incredibly misinformed though, as the house Republicans are now trying to say they didn't want a government shutdown and that it could have all been avoided if Obama had come to the table to negotiate a law that was already negotiated on... 4 years ago (without the tea party reps in power though). It's really unfortunate that things ended up this way, and it's a gross display of the growing problems within the American government that are crippling the country.
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Can someone play the devil's advocate? I can try...
Try to play a game called "justify the Republican actions". They believe that the obamacare agenda must be stopped or modified at all costs. They're wanting to bring the Democrats to the negotiating table so that they can modify some of the obamacare legislation as a condition of funding government. Technically speaking, they'll want to attack ACA fiscally, right? And the government funding is also a fiscal issue... so it's sort of justified, right?
To be fair, much of the Republican ultra-conservative base will appreciate this kind of action. In that sense, they can justifiably say that they have the support of the people behind them with that regard. Perhaps they've just failed to market their position effectively? Is the media environment unfairly toxic to the Republicans right now? They feel that obamacare is a piece of country-ruining legislative rubbish and they want to stop it.
ps. I wanted to try and justify the R stance, but I just can't do it. I think it's indefensible... anyone else better equipped want to step in? For the sake of the debate! Personally, I agree with the popular view: Republican tantrum holds funding hostage to unreasonable demands. Regardless of the content, they're going about their business in the wrong ways.
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On October 04 2013 12:40 FeUerFlieGe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 10:32 Mithhaike wrote:
4) The Republicans have failed to realise they are here to serve the people FIRST and FOREMOST instead of their party interests. They have turned a normal government procedure into a political exercise in a bid for power, causing hardship to at least 800,000 citizens. As a outsider viewing in, i am astounded at the amount of irresponsibility being shown here. Now if they hold the debt ceiling hostage too, they have will have shown they are incapable of running the country. Why?
Well, arguably they are serving the people that voted them. These are representatives, they represent the interest of people in certain state districts. Most of the people that voted for them, voted for them under the vow that they would repeal Obamacare. Whether or not these people are misinformed or not is another story, but they are doing what the people who voted them into office wanted them to do. I believe it's safe to say though that these people are incredibly misinformed though, as the house Republicans are now trying to say they didn't want a government shutdown and that it could have all been avoided if Obama had come to the table to negotiate a law that was already negotiated on... 4 years ago (without the tea party reps in power though). It's really unfortunate that things ended up this way, and it's a gross display of the growing problems within the American government that are crippling the country.
I really hope they're not out there stating that it all depended on Obama, the President, coming to negotiate on the wording of a law... The President has no power when it comes to the wording of legislation, only vetoing and signing laws.
He does have weight of the Oval Office he can throw around but at the end of the day it requires the senate and house to write laws.
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So, I just want to point out the threat of a government shutdown forces agencies to prepare for the possibility, which means they have to waste hundreds of millions of dollars to prepare for it some time ahead. That's fiscal responsibility for you, oh wait that's ok because we want to defund Obamacare.
My dad works in a government research lab and they basically had to begin shutting down experiments and everything last week. Now he's on furlough, and he essentially said screw it and went back to Taiwan to visit my grandparents.
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On October 04 2013 12:47 ticklishmusic wrote:
So, I just want to point out the threat of a government shutdown forces agencies to prepare for the possibility, which means they have to waste hundreds of millions of dollars to prepare for it some time ahead. That's fiscal responsibility for you, oh wait that's ok because we want to defund Obamacare.
My dad works in a government research lab and they basically had to begin shutting down experiments and everything last week. Now he's on furlough, and he essentially said screw it and went back to Taiwan to visit my grandparents.
government shutdown screwing over scientific research? no wonder republicans are all for it.
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On October 04 2013 12:42 magicmUnky wrote:
Can someone play the devil's advocate? I can try...
Try to play a game called "justify the Republican actions". They believe that the obamacare agenda must be stopped or modified at all costs. They're wanting to bring the Democrats to the negotiating table so that they can modify some of the obamacare legislation as a condition of funding government. Technically speaking, they'll want to attack ACA fiscally, right? And the government funding is also a fiscal issue... so it's sort of justified, right?
To be fair, much of the Republican ultra-conservative base will appreciate this kind of action. In that sense, they can justifiably say that they have the support of the people behind them with that regard. Perhaps they've just failed to market their position effectively? Is the media environment unfairly toxic to the Republicans right now? They feel that obamacare is a piece of country-ruining legislative rubbish and they want to stop it.
ps. I wanted to try and justify the R stance, but I just can't do it. I think it's indefensible... anyone else better equipped want to step in? For the sake of the debate! Personally, I agree with the popular view: Republican tantrum holds funding hostage to unreasonable demands. Regardless of the content, they're going about their business in the wrong ways.
Seriously, that's your best intellectual attempt to understand the Republican position ? Look at your very first sentence, what I have bolded. Here's a tip: Try to understand the "why" behind that statement. Why do Republicans want to stop Obamacare ? GIve it your best objective, fair, intellectual attempt. Everything you can muster up, intellectually. Maybe we can start there.
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On October 04 2013 12:59 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 12:47 ticklishmusic wrote:
So, I just want to point out the threat of a government shutdown forces agencies to prepare for the possibility, which means they have to waste hundreds of millions of dollars to prepare for it some time ahead. That's fiscal responsibility for you, oh wait that's ok because we want to defund Obamacare.
My dad works in a government research lab and they basically had to begin shutting down experiments and everything last week. Now he's on furlough, and he essentially said screw it and went back to Taiwan to visit my grandparents. government shutdown screwing over scientific research? no wonder republicans are all for it.
An example of something that adds absolutely nothing to the thread, yet will result in no consequence because of the political leaning of the statement.
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On October 04 2013 12:59 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 12:42 magicmUnky wrote:
Can someone play the devil's advocate? I can try...
Try to play a game called "justify the Republican actions". They believe that the obamacare agenda must be stopped or modified at all costs. They're wanting to bring the Democrats to the negotiating table so that they can modify some of the obamacare legislation as a condition of funding government. Technically speaking, they'll want to attack ACA fiscally, right? And the government funding is also a fiscal issue... so it's sort of justified, right?
To be fair, much of the Republican ultra-conservative base will appreciate this kind of action. In that sense, they can justifiably say that they have the support of the people behind them with that regard. Perhaps they've just failed to market their position effectively? Is the media environment unfairly toxic to the Republicans right now? They feel that obamacare is a piece of country-ruining legislative rubbish and they want to stop it.
ps. I wanted to try and justify the R stance, but I just can't do it. I think it's indefensible... anyone else better equipped want to step in? For the sake of the debate! Personally, I agree with the popular view: Republican tantrum holds funding hostage to unreasonable demands. Regardless of the content, they're going about their business in the wrong ways. Seriously, that's your best intellectual attempt to understand the Republican position ? Look at your very first sentence, what I have bolded. Here's a tip: Try to understand the "why" behind that statement. Why do Republicans want to stop Obamacare ? GIve it your best objective, fair, intellectual attempt. Everything you can muster up, intellectually. Maybe we can start there.
Kaitlin he did mention that he is unable to justify the Republican position. It appears that you can.
Did you read my post on top reply to yours about not wanting to post anything? Please do share views with us that is based in fact and cannot be debunked, that helps the Republican position.
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On October 04 2013 13:05 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 12:59 Kaitlin wrote:On October 04 2013 12:42 magicmUnky wrote:
Can someone play the devil's advocate? I can try...
Try to play a game called "justify the Republican actions". They believe that the obamacare agenda must be stopped or modified at all costs. They're wanting to bring the Democrats to the negotiating table so that they can modify some of the obamacare legislation as a condition of funding government. Technically speaking, they'll want to attack ACA fiscally, right? And the government funding is also a fiscal issue... so it's sort of justified, right?
To be fair, much of the Republican ultra-conservative base will appreciate this kind of action. In that sense, they can justifiably say that they have the support of the people behind them with that regard. Perhaps they've just failed to market their position effectively? Is the media environment unfairly toxic to the Republicans right now? They feel that obamacare is a piece of country-ruining legislative rubbish and they want to stop it.
ps. I wanted to try and justify the R stance, but I just can't do it. I think it's indefensible... anyone else better equipped want to step in? For the sake of the debate! Personally, I agree with the popular view: Republican tantrum holds funding hostage to unreasonable demands. Regardless of the content, they're going about their business in the wrong ways. Seriously, that's your best intellectual attempt to understand the Republican position ? Look at your very first sentence, what I have bolded. Here's a tip: Try to understand the "why" behind that statement. Why do Republicans want to stop Obamacare ? GIve it your best objective, fair, intellectual attempt. Everything you can muster up, intellectually. Maybe we can start there. Kaitlin he did mention that he is unable to justify the Republican position. It appears that you can. Did you read my post on top reply to yours about not wanting to post anything? Please do share views with us that is based in fact and cannot be debunked, that helps the Republican position.
That's what I'm doing. But it's not going to be me explaining everything. It's going to be an exercise in people seeking to understand others by using their own thoughts. It's really an important ability to develop. I can provide prompts to focus thought, but if I spell it out, then people will a) reject it as usual, and b) not develop the ability to try to understand people who disagree with them. People around here just assume anyone with a different viewpoint is full of shit and wrong and disregard them. "Debate" with these people is a waste of time.
edit: So, what I'm looking for here, is honest attempts by people to post their thoughts on "why" they think Conservatives are against Obamacare.
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On October 04 2013 12:59 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 12:42 magicmUnky wrote:
Can someone play the devil's advocate? I can try...
Try to play a game called "justify the Republican actions". They believe that the obamacare agenda must be stopped or modified at all costs. They're wanting to bring the Democrats to the negotiating table so that they can modify some of the obamacare legislation as a condition of funding government. Technically speaking, they'll want to attack ACA fiscally, right? And the government funding is also a fiscal issue... so it's sort of justified, right?
To be fair, much of the Republican ultra-conservative base will appreciate this kind of action. In that sense, they can justifiably say that they have the support of the people behind them with that regard. Perhaps they've just failed to market their position effectively? Is the media environment unfairly toxic to the Republicans right now? They feel that obamacare is a piece of country-ruining legislative rubbish and they want to stop it.
ps. I wanted to try and justify the R stance, but I just can't do it. I think it's indefensible... anyone else better equipped want to step in? For the sake of the debate! Personally, I agree with the popular view: Republican tantrum holds funding hostage to unreasonable demands. Regardless of the content, they're going about their business in the wrong ways. Seriously, that's your best intellectual attempt to understand the Republican position ? Look at your very first sentence, what I have bolded. Here's a tip: Try to understand the "why" behind that statement. Why do Republicans want to stop Obamacare ? GIve it your best objective, fair, intellectual attempt. Everything you can muster up, intellectually. Maybe we can start there.
Even after reading all the posts in this and the US politics threads I think Republicans are not communicating their point properly. It is my understanding that while Republicans dont like large government run social welfare programs, they do accept that they get stuff done. What is most disconcerting to them is that once people are helped en mass by such a program the way we accomplish the ends becomes sacrosanct no matter how much waste develops. People don't like you messing with programs that saved their life.
I would love to see a plan which creates a bipartisan panel of experts who publicly audit these large services. Something with the power, not to reduce the scope of such legislation but enact more efficient alternatives to individual elements found wanting (such as changing leadership, eliminating leadership or more aggressively bargaining with medical suppliers in this case). Maybe do this in 10 or 15 year intervals for all the big programs, I dunno just a thought.
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On October 04 2013 12:42 magicmUnky wrote:
Can someone play the devil's advocate? I can try...
Try to play a game called "justify the Republican actions". They believe that the obamacare agenda must be stopped or modified at all costs. They're wanting to bring the Democrats to the negotiating table so that they can modify some of the obamacare legislation as a condition of funding government. Technically speaking, they'll want to attack ACA fiscally, right? And the government funding is also a fiscal issue... so it's sort of justified, right?
To be fair, much of the Republican ultra-conservative base will appreciate this kind of action. In that sense, they can justifiably say that they have the support of the people behind them with that regard. Perhaps they've just failed to market their position effectively? Is the media environment unfairly toxic to the Republicans right now? They feel that obamacare is a piece of country-ruining legislative rubbish and they want to stop it.
ps. I wanted to try and justify the R stance, but I just can't do it. I think it's indefensible... anyone else better equipped want to step in? For the sake of the debate! Personally, I agree with the popular view: Republican tantrum holds funding hostage to unreasonable demands. Regardless of the content, they're going about their business in the wrong ways.
I'll give it a shot : ) History has shown us that once social programs are put in place they are incredibly difficult (impossible?) to get rid of. People get used to the benefit over time, and vehemently resist any attempt to limit or reform them. Just look at Social Security. It began as a reasonably limited program to help old folks get through the GD. Since then, it has evolved into a HUGE debt obligation for the government, with little hope of reform. Obamacare is arguably even more expansive than Social Security, with tendrils that reach across the entire US economy. As it inexorably bloats into a larger and larger obligation of the government, similar to every other large social program our nation's history, it will eventually consume our already fragile financial system.
As a result, the Republicans feel that they have a responsibility to repeal Obamacare at all costs, because once it is in place it will be too late and we will be stuck with it forever. Many of them probably know that the shut down is their fault, but like superfan, they truly do believe that the long term harm Obamacare will do to the country far outweighs the damage from the shutdown.
Obamacare must be repealed at all costs, because if it is allowed to continue the damage it will cause will outweigh anything the Republicans might do in their attempts to repeal it. They have attempted this through normal means some forty times over the last few years, but now the implementation of Obamacare is imminent. Forcing the shutdown is a last ditch desperate effort to prevent America from being saddled with yet another disastrously burdensome social program.
God save the Republicans, our last remaining champions, defending the wall of the world's final bastion of liberty and freedom against the ravening hordes of European socialists, and also the gays!
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On October 04 2013 13:00 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 12:59 synapse wrote:On October 04 2013 12:47 ticklishmusic wrote:
So, I just want to point out the threat of a government shutdown forces agencies to prepare for the possibility, which means they have to waste hundreds of millions of dollars to prepare for it some time ahead. That's fiscal responsibility for you, oh wait that's ok because we want to defund Obamacare.
My dad works in a government research lab and they basically had to begin shutting down experiments and everything last week. Now he's on furlough, and he essentially said screw it and went back to Taiwan to visit my grandparents. government shutdown screwing over scientific research? no wonder republicans are all for it. An example of something that adds absolutely nothing to the thread, yet will result in no consequence because of the political leaning of the statement.
If you think something is a low-content post, report it. You can't complain about there being no consequences when you aren't even using the options available to you. I checked the report button on the post just now, and one hasn't been submitted yet.
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Alright, I'm not one for political "debate", but I'd just like to point out that this chart is horribly made, it starts the Y axis at 950 and caps at 1250. The smallest bar has a Y value of $967 while the largest has $1203. Mathematically, the smallest bar is ~80.4% the size of the largest, while graphically the largest bar is seventeen times it's size. So don't try to form opinions with that information visually.
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I tried to e-mail my representatives to ask them to stop this nonsense. (I live in a town that depends on the national parks. They even shut down the boat ramps for fucks sake.) I got a reply back.
"Thank you for contacting me. Due to the government-wide shutdown as a result of a lapse in appropriations, my office is closed and I am unable to respond to email or voice messages. Your message is important to me, and as soon as the federal government reopens, I will respond to your message. I regret any inconvenience this shutdown may cause."
Ain't that a bitch. I can't even tell them I don't support them.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g4/lunarmonger/BVnKIMhCIAAFUI-.jpg)
