On October 02 2013 09:52 Fix637 wrote: The entire situation is really unfortunate, and incredibly idiotic.
I understand the Republicans wanting to combat Obamacare, so far as I understand them sticking up for their party values. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I know absolutely nothing about the Affordable Care Act. Since I'm a college student I have insurance through my parents until I'm 26, so the issue doesn't immediately concern me.
However, whether you agree with Obamacare or not this is absolutely the wrong time to engage in petty partisanship. Holding hostage the livelihood of almost one million people for something so petty is absurd. The Affordable Care Act is law. It passed the legislative process and was upheld by the supreme court. At this point it isn't going anywhere.
The worst part about this, the thing that really makes me angry, is the fact that every person in Congress is still collecting a paycheck despite utterly failing to do their jobs. There are a few Representatives and Senators who are denying or donating their income until the impasse is over, but it's not nearly enough.
None of them, including the President, should be paid until this is sorted out.
Since you said you know nothing about the ACA I'll teach you one thing: You have insurance through your parents until age 26 (like you said) because of it.
Previous age was 24.
Personally, the ACA act has allowed me to have healthcare at all. Beforehand I was unable to get healthcare at all due to pre existing conditions. I now have healthcare 100% because of the law.
On October 02 2013 09:52 Fix637 wrote: The entire situation is really unfortunate, and incredibly idiotic.
I understand the Republicans wanting to combat Obamacare, so far as I understand them sticking up for their party values. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I know absolutely nothing about the Affordable Care Act. Since I'm a college student I have insurance through my parents until I'm 26, so the issue doesn't immediately concern me.
However, whether you agree with Obamacare or not this is absolutely the wrong time to engage in petty partisanship. Holding hostage the livelihood of almost one million people for something so petty is absurd. The Affordable Care Act is law. It passed the legislative process and was upheld by the supreme court. At this point it isn't going anywhere.
The worst part about this, the thing that really makes me angry, is the fact that every person in Congress is still collecting a paycheck despite utterly failing to do their jobs. There are a few Representatives and Senators who are denying or donating their income until the impasse is over, but it's not nearly enough.
None of them, including the President, should be paid until this is sorted out.
Are you being (facetious? I feel like there's a better word...). The fact that you can stay on your parent's plan until you are 26 was one of the earliest provisions of the Affordable Care Act that was rolled out. While of course many of the popular insurance reforms related to the bill would likely remain even if the Republicans got their way, you're a ways off in saying that the issue doesn't immediately concern you.
On October 02 2013 09:52 Fix637 wrote: The entire situation is really unfortunate, and incredibly idiotic.
I understand the Republicans wanting to combat Obamacare, so far as I understand them sticking up for their party values. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I know absolutely nothing about the Affordable Care Act. Since I'm a college student I have insurance through my parents until I'm 26, so the issue doesn't immediately concern me.
However, whether you agree with Obamacare or not this is absolutely the wrong time to engage in petty partisanship. Holding hostage the livelihood of almost one million people for something so petty is absurd. The Affordable Care Act is law. It passed the legislative process and was upheld by the supreme court. At this point it isn't going anywhere.
The worst part about this, the thing that really makes me angry, is the fact that every person in Congress is still collecting a paycheck despite utterly failing to do their jobs. There are a few Representatives and Senators who are denying or donating their income until the impasse is over, but it's not nearly enough.
None of them, including the President, should be paid until this is sorted out.
How can that be solved exactly? Concretely, the republicans and the démocrates must agree? Is it the only way to solve the problem? The supreme court can't force them to sign the budget? (since their real issue is about the healthcare bill and not about the budget as a whole)
Now I really want to know what the proper word would be to describe what Pix637 would have done/been if the whole "I'm on my parent's plan until I'm 26 so the ACA doesn't concern me..." thing was done intentionally, not necessarily as a joke but you know...? My first guess was facetious but I feel like that's not right. Irony? I feel like there's a really great word in there that I want to put in my back pocket for later.
On October 02 2013 07:54 HappyCamper wrote: Putting a purely socialistic system into a very capitalistic system is bad.
I think many of our Scandinavian members on TL would disagree with you.
(...) Also your scandinavian healthcare is not purely socialistic. It has capitalistic ideas in it. You also have the highest taxes out of every country.<-------- bad (...)
I'm not going to argue about the rest of the post because I've 0 knowledge about it, but this part that I bolded is foolish thinking.
Your thinking here is just like those of the great masses: "omg they are taking money off me, therefore it is a bad thing!!!". It is only a bad thing when the money the government take from you is not paid back in the form of good public services/investment in the development of the country.
Scandinavian countries have high taxes yes, but the return of the goverment is equally high, so there should be no much to complain.
Now if you have high taxes and low or no return from the goverment, like in many 3rd world countries (Brazil being the prime example imho), then you have all the reasons to think it is bad.
Your government did do good stuff for you. They talked to the construction companies with artificially high prices and paid ridiculously high amounts of money for Olympic and World Cup stadiums. /s
Seriously, its when the government takes money and doesnt do anything useful for the people that it gets bad
On October 02 2013 10:08 YumYumGranola wrote: Now I really want to know what the proper word would be to describe what Pix637 would have done/been if the whole "I'm on my parent's plan until I'm 26 so the ACA doesn't concern me..." thing was done intentionally, not necessarily as a joke but you know...? My first guess was facetious but I feel like that's not right. Irony? I feel like there's a really great word in there that I want to put in my back pocket for later.
A list of countries with better health care than the US. If you don't like Obamacare, then this article would appeared biased.
However since I've lived in 2 countries from that list, I can personally relate myself to the cause that universal health care in fact working very well in those countries. Health care and medicines are cheap and easily accessible. People don't generally have too much complaint about the system, but when they do, I can easily think of how much more worse if they are living in another country, as I have been in both shoes. I came from a middle income family, yet I don't feel resources are unevenly distributed towards the poor.
On October 02 2013 10:04 FeUerFlieGe wrote: Obamacare could and should be revised to fix it's problems, but nobody seems to be proposing an alternative plan that I know of.
there is no alternative, obamacare is what we got now. It will be tweaked and improved hopefully, but as it stands it is already in effect. It does not matter what the republicans do, they can't stop it.
On October 02 2013 10:16 igotmyown wrote: So forget about all the arguments for a second, what's going to happen?
I've assumed people would get more and more annoyed, and the backlash would make one side cave/compromise. And how long will this last?
I don't think it will last out the week, although something to keep in mind is that the tea party republicans knew full well they'd take the public beating for this shutdown and that the democrats would sit pretty in this shit heap. They still decided to pull the trigger and they're the party whose compromise will most likely be required to end this. Could go on for a while, nobody knows. At this point we just ride it out and keep lol-ing at the national heads as our deficit climbs.
On October 02 2013 10:16 igotmyown wrote: So forget about all the arguments for a second, what's going to happen?
I've assumed people would get more and more annoyed, and the backlash would make one side cave/compromise. And how long will this last?
I don't think it will last out the week, although something to keep in mind is that the tea party republicans knew full well they'd take the public beating for this shutdown and that the democrats would sit pretty in this shit heap. They still decided to pull the trigger and they're the party whose compromise will most likely be required to end this. Could go on for a while, nobody knows. At this point we just ride it out and keep lol-ing at the national heads as our deficit climbs.
So if they don't reach a compromise (hypothetically), at what point will they lose their jobs? I mean Federal government is more important than some congressmen so I imagine after a few weeks they all get fired.
On October 02 2013 10:16 igotmyown wrote: So forget about all the arguments for a second, what's going to happen?
I've assumed people would get more and more annoyed, and the backlash would make one side cave/compromise. And how long will this last?
I don't think it will last out the week, although something to keep in mind is that the tea party republicans knew full well they'd take the public beating for this shutdown and that the democrats would sit pretty in this shit heap. They still decided to pull the trigger and they're the party whose compromise will most likely be required to end this. Could go on for a while, nobody knows. At this point we just ride it out and keep lol-ing at the national heads as our deficit climbs.
So if they don't reach a compromise (hypothetically), at what point will they lose their jobs? I mean Federal government is more important than some congressmen so I imagine after a few weeks they all get fired.
I dont think its actually realisticly possible any of them "lose" there job over this. Ofc when elections come they can lose but its not like you can just fire a congressmen
On October 02 2013 10:16 igotmyown wrote: So forget about all the arguments for a second, what's going to happen?
I've assumed people would get more and more annoyed, and the backlash would make one side cave/compromise. And how long will this last?
I don't think it will last out the week, although something to keep in mind is that the tea party republicans knew full well they'd take the public beating for this shutdown and that the democrats would sit pretty in this shit heap. They still decided to pull the trigger and they're the party whose compromise will most likely be required to end this. Could go on for a while, nobody knows. At this point we just ride it out and keep lol-ing at the national heads as our deficit climbs.
So if they don't reach a compromise (hypothetically), at what point will they lose their jobs? I mean Federal government is more important than some congressmen so I imagine after a few weeks they all get fired.
I really hope people aren't dumb enough to buy into this piecemeal budgeting plan republicans are trying to pull now.
Oh you won't sign a bill defunding the ACA... Well how about we pick and choose pieces (never to include the ACA) of government to fund. Republicans say you don't want to fund them because you don't care about veterans, etc...While reasonable people know if he did start this piecemeal crap republicans will never fund the ACA.
There is a larger issue than the ACA at play here it is the fundamental stability of democracy.
If the Tea Party is successful with this tactic from now on thats the only way they will 'legislate'. They had years to come up with viable alterations or improvements which if independent assessors concluded were more effective at reducing healthcare costs and providing coverage to more Americans would have easily been considered and likely included...
But that's not what they did. They went on lying for months about ridiculous things like Planned Parenthood, 'Death Panels', and Uncle Sam in womens Vaginas....
That among 1000's of other reasons are why most reasonable people understand why Obama would not take republicans seriously when they say they want to 'negotiate'.
On October 02 2013 10:16 igotmyown wrote: So forget about all the arguments for a second, what's going to happen?
I've assumed people would get more and more annoyed, and the backlash would make one side cave/compromise. And how long will this last?
I don't think it will last out the week, although something to keep in mind is that the tea party republicans knew full well they'd take the public beating for this shutdown and that the democrats would sit pretty in this shit heap. They still decided to pull the trigger and they're the party whose compromise will most likely be required to end this. Could go on for a while, nobody knows. At this point we just ride it out and keep lol-ing at the national heads as our deficit climbs.
So if they don't reach a compromise (hypothetically), at what point will they lose their jobs? I mean Federal government is more important than some congressmen so I imagine after a few weeks they all get fired.
I don't think they can lose their jobs.. not till elections in 2014.
I imagine if it went on for months that people would start to riot and they would have to pass SOMETHING
On October 02 2013 09:52 Fix637 wrote: The entire situation is really unfortunate, and incredibly idiotic.
I understand the Republicans wanting to combat Obamacare, so far as I understand them sticking up for their party values. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I know absolutely nothing about the Affordable Care Act. Since I'm a college student I have insurance through my parents until I'm 26, so the issue doesn't immediately concern me.
However, whether you agree with Obamacare or not this is absolutely the wrong time to engage in petty partisanship. Holding hostage the livelihood of almost one million people for something so petty is absurd. The Affordable Care Act is law. It passed the legislative process and was upheld by the supreme court. At this point it isn't going anywhere.
The worst part about this, the thing that really makes me angry, is the fact that every person in Congress is still collecting a paycheck despite utterly failing to do their jobs. There are a few Representatives and Senators who are denying or donating their income until the impasse is over, but it's not nearly enough.
None of them, including the President, should be paid until this is sorted out.
Since you said you know nothing about the ACA I'll teach you one thing: You have insurance through your parents until age 26 (like you said) because of it.
I can teach him one more thing. Because of the ACA, when you graduate from college, you will have significantly more difficulty finding employment wherein you work more than 30 hours a week.
On October 02 2013 10:16 igotmyown wrote: So forget about all the arguments for a second, what's going to happen?
I've assumed people would get more and more annoyed, and the backlash would make one side cave/compromise. And how long will this last?
I don't think it will last out the week, although something to keep in mind is that the tea party republicans knew full well they'd take the public beating for this shutdown and that the democrats would sit pretty in this shit heap. They still decided to pull the trigger and they're the party whose compromise will most likely be required to end this. Could go on for a while, nobody knows. At this point we just ride it out and keep lol-ing at the national heads as our deficit climbs.
So if they don't reach a compromise (hypothetically), at what point will they lose their jobs? I mean Federal government is more important than some congressmen so I imagine after a few weeks they all get fired.
I don't think they can lose their jobs.. not till elections in 2014.
I imagine if it went on for months that people would start to riot and they would have to pass SOMETHING
This wont even last that long. This will last at the longest until mid October when they have to pass a debt ceiling increase which they would likely do with this because I cant see them doing one and not other and if they don't do the debt ceiling then the effects of that will be fairly instant and not in any way good.
On October 02 2013 10:16 igotmyown wrote: So forget about all the arguments for a second, what's going to happen?
I've assumed people would get more and more annoyed, and the backlash would make one side cave/compromise. And how long will this last?
I don't think it will last out the week, although something to keep in mind is that the tea party republicans knew full well they'd take the public beating for this shutdown and that the democrats would sit pretty in this shit heap. They still decided to pull the trigger and they're the party whose compromise will most likely be required to end this. Could go on for a while, nobody knows. At this point we just ride it out and keep lol-ing at the national heads as our deficit climbs.
So if they don't reach a compromise (hypothetically), at what point will they lose their jobs? I mean Federal government is more important than some congressmen so I imagine after a few weeks they all get fired.
Try 14 months before they're "fired".
Yeah, what is the likelihood of a District which elected a Tea Party member to Congress to then turn around 2 years later after the Tea Party did what they said they were going to do, and elect a Democrat. Not gonna happen.
On October 02 2013 09:52 Fix637 wrote: The entire situation is really unfortunate, and incredibly idiotic.
I understand the Republicans wanting to combat Obamacare, so far as I understand them sticking up for their party values. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I know absolutely nothing about the Affordable Care Act. Since I'm a college student I have insurance through my parents until I'm 26, so the issue doesn't immediately concern me.
However, whether you agree with Obamacare or not this is absolutely the wrong time to engage in petty partisanship. Holding hostage the livelihood of almost one million people for something so petty is absurd. The Affordable Care Act is law. It passed the legislative process and was upheld by the supreme court. At this point it isn't going anywhere.
The worst part about this, the thing that really makes me angry, is the fact that every person in Congress is still collecting a paycheck despite utterly failing to do their jobs. There are a few Representatives and Senators who are denying or donating their income until the impasse is over, but it's not nearly enough.
None of them, including the President, should be paid until this is sorted out.
Since you said you know nothing about the ACA I'll teach you one thing: You have insurance through your parents until age 26 (like you said) because of it.
I can teach him one more thing. Because of the ACA, when you graduate from college, you will have significantly more difficulty finding employment wherein you work more than 30 hours a week.
then the answer is to stop using stupid arbitrary cut offs and use a sliding scale of subsidy and up the fine for not complying to be greater than the cost. i dont see how you can look at a bill with essentially 2 minor problems and decide that you should just sink the whole ship rather than patch the holes.
On October 02 2013 10:16 igotmyown wrote: So forget about all the arguments for a second, what's going to happen?
I've assumed people would get more and more annoyed, and the backlash would make one side cave/compromise. And how long will this last?
I don't think it will last out the week, although something to keep in mind is that the tea party republicans knew full well they'd take the public beating for this shutdown and that the democrats would sit pretty in this shit heap. They still decided to pull the trigger and they're the party whose compromise will most likely be required to end this. Could go on for a while, nobody knows. At this point we just ride it out and keep lol-ing at the national heads as our deficit climbs.
So if they don't reach a compromise (hypothetically), at what point will they lose their jobs? I mean Federal government is more important than some congressmen so I imagine after a few weeks they all get fired.
Try 14 months before they're "fired".
Yeah, what is the likelihood of a District which elected a Tea Party member to Congress to then turn around 2 years later after the Tea Party did what they said they were going to do, and elect a Democrat. Not gonna happen.
They might vote in that other R on the primary ticket though, you know, to actually DO something in the Capitol.
EPT
