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On August 15 2006 18:07 Mynock wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2006 17:54 Jathin wrote:
The problem with teaching creationism in schools is how you present it.
Do you present it from a Christian standpoint?
A Buddhist standpoint?
How about Hindu?
It's very difficult to approach it because each religion has its own explanation for how humans came about. Evolution, on the other hand, is a theory that's very consistent and has ample evidence to support it. Creationism isn't science, evolution is. There is data supporting evolution. We have witnessed descent with modification with our very own eyes (in the 80's-90's there is decades of data on bird beak length increasing throughout generations to adapt to the strain of harder-to-obtain food) However, we've gotta be honest. There is 0 data of a species evolving into another species. No data. No proof. That is the main reason evolution theory is still just a theory. Now it could "easily" be proven otherwise if only we could observe the rainforests' abundant wildlife a bit closer. New species emerge on a daily basis in there, but it's virtually impossible to actually catch one changing into other due to the sheer amount of population of one species. Also, when do you consider a species evolved into another? So it's really not that "easily" proven... Oh, still better than creation tho. -Mynock
"Speciation" has couple definitions but a practical definition is "a population or populations of animals that can interbreed." There is alot of fossil evidence that suggest speciation. The reason you dont normally see this today is because of the amount of time and selective pressure that is needed for speciation to occur. We are talking geological time. Microevolution, on the other hand, can be observed in the lab.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On August 15 2006 18:07 Mynock wrote:
However, we've gotta be honest. There is 0 data of a species evolving into another species. No data. No proof. That is the main reason evolution theory is still just a theory.
Ever heard of something called "the flu"? It is evolving constantly.
Drug-resistant infections are a perfect example of evolution happening here and now. The few lucky bacteria or viruses that have drug-resistant genes (either from their parent or from random mutation) are the ones that outlive their unlucky brethren when a person takes antibiotics. If they can survive the person's immune system and spread to other hosts, then they will survive even longer. And so on.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On August 15 2006 18:11 oneofthem wrote:
so what, people believe in what they want to believe
They can also vote.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On August 15 2006 18:22 Bill307 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2006 18:11 oneofthem wrote:
so what, people believe in what they want to believe They can also vote. and your point is? maybe it is voting and the belief that voting legitimizes tyranny that is truly fucked up. eh?
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4492 Posts
On August 15 2006 18:18 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2006 18:07 Mynock wrote:
However, we've gotta be honest. There is 0 data of a species evolving into another species. No data. No proof. Again, I would like to point out the nylon-eating bacteria. While it may not be enough to qualify is a totally different species, that sure is a hell of a change. I really wish people would quit saying that. Gravity is also "just a theory."
Well yes it is. It has even been modified several times ever since Brahmagupta (Newton, Einstein)... It's not exact yet. It's just way good enough.
-Mynock
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okay this is offensive
most of our country is theistic
we are also a nation of imigrants
so please no anti american threads
FSMism is a joke, not serious about anything
I am an american conservative, who beleives in evolution.
politics, especially when geared in a mocking way really has no place online. Its bad enough when foreigners treat me like a suggestion box.
religion is not taught in any preachy way in public schools. we learn history, and some of it covers the rise of byzantine empire (hope i spelled that right) and the fall of rome.
how much of africa beleives in evolution?
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On August 15 2006 18:07 Mynock wrote:
Now it could "easily" be proven otherwise if only we could observe the rainforests' abundant wildlife a bit closer. New species emerge on a daily basis in there, but it's virtually impossible to actually catch one changing into other due to the sheer amount of population of one species.
What's so special about the rainforests? It sounds like all you're looking for is an animal with some physical deformity due to mutated genes. After all, that is (one example of) how one species changes into another.
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4492 Posts
Well, those of you mentioning microevolution and the likes of flu are missing the big picture here. Flu is still a flu no matter what. A ladybug is still a ladybug no matter what. A mouse is a mouse with 5 legs or not. That's not the point here, the point is the lack of direct visual/documented proof of evolving from one actual species to another actual species. For that, exactly, at one moemnt in time one member of the "old" species shoudl not even be able to copulate and produce reproduction-able offspring with a member of the "new" species. This has yet to happen tho, and until it does, the creationists won't shut up. No matter the logic, no matter the conclusions, these things are yet to be proven.
-Mynock
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On August 15 2006 18:24 Mynock wrote:
Well yes it is. It has even been modified several times ever since Brahmagupta (Newton, Einstein)... It's not exact yet. It's just way good enough.
-Mynock
As is Evolution.
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is awesome32274 Posts
Until you find something that explains the world better than the current physics, ill stick with them.
Thank you.
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4492 Posts
[QUOTE]On August 15 2006 18:28 Bill307 wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 15 2006 18:07 Mynock wrote:
Now it could "easily" be proven otherwise if only we could observe the rainforests' abundant wildlife a bit closer. New species emerge on a daily basis in there, but it's virtually impossible to actually catch one changing into other due to the sheer amount of population of one species.QUOTE]
What's so special about the rainforests? It sounds like all you're looking for is an animal with some physical deformity due to mutated genes. After all, that is (one example of) how one species changes into another.[/QUOTE]
Well, I suggest watchng the video I posted, it's pretty entertaining/educational and both participants of the debate are making educated points.
-Mynock
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On August 15 2006 18:24 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2006 18:22 Bill307 wrote:On August 15 2006 18:11 oneofthem wrote:
so what, people believe in what they want to believe They can also vote. and your point is?
Example: Joe does not believe in evolution. Of the two candidates running for presidency, the better one believes in evolution. Therefore Joe does not vote for him/her.
By the way, are you implying that it is OK for people to believe whatever they want, and that it will have no effect on you or anyone else?
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4492 Posts
On August 15 2006 18:29 Mindcrime wrote:
As is Evolution.
I know it is, I just said that before. What's your point again?
-Mynock
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On August 15 2006 17:22 gameguard wrote:
I dont understand how anyone with a reasonable amount of education can look past the overwhelming evidence for evolution and say its false. Most of these people will blindly stick to their faith. Can they not see that creationism and evolution doesnt neccesarily have to contradict each other? Reading the Scriptures in the very literal sense, you can run into some trouble. You should apply modern knowledge and logical thinking when you interpret some of the things writen in the scriptures. Keep in mind the Bible was writen a long time ago.
Many people take the "God created earth in 7 days" literally which can only lead to denying the evolutionary process. It is unknown how Genesis was writen or even who wrote it. Whos to say it wasnt a vision given to the author by God in the form of symbols. This is personally what I believe but there can be other explanations if you keep an open mind.
Basically I agree with micronesia and believe that God guided the evolutionary process.
hear hear!
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On August 15 2006 18:32 Mynock wrote:I know it is, I just said that before. What's your point again? -Mynock
I don't recall reading that.
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On August 15 2006 17:22 gameguard wrote:
Basically I agree with micronesia and believe that God guided the evolutionary process.
Seriously? Do you really understand the concept of evolution? And you still think it needs some sort of illuminated guidance? :|
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On August 15 2006 18:31 Bill307 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2006 18:24 oneofthem wrote:On August 15 2006 18:22 Bill307 wrote:On August 15 2006 18:11 oneofthem wrote:
so what, people believe in what they want to believe They can also vote. and your point is? Example: Joe does not believe in evolution. Of the two candidates running for presidency, the better one believes in evolution. Therefore Joe does not vote for him/her. By the way, are you implying that it is OK for people to believe whatever they want, and that it will have no effect on you or anyone else? i'm not implying that of course. the mere act of believing in something is being considered here, not the entirely separate voting and politics and such. considering i do not believe in coercion...
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On August 15 2006 18:28 Mynock wrote:
This has yet to happen tho, and until it does, the creationists won't shut up. No matter the logic, no matter the conclusions, these things are yet to be proven.
Of course, they wouldn't shut up even if we did see it happen. After all, we still would not have witnessed humans evolving from another species.
We have not witnessed God creating humans either, nor do we have any evidence to support it (unlike evolution), but this argument does not appear to faze them.
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Calgary25979 Posts
I feel so bad for science in general. It's like you work so hard to prove this to the masses and they just "know" you're wrong.
I was watching a commercial for the Q-Ray braclet, with it's "ionized metal" powers it makes you feel better. It's got to make everyone who makes their living in theoretical sciences sick to see someone getting rich off this, and the people putting it on and "feeling better within seconds".
I'm also annoyed with the people who don't want genetically engineered crops because it's "immoral", while people in other countries with large population densities or infertile soils continue to starve every day. That's another tangent though...
If you believe in anything other than science, for anything in the universe, go fuck yourself. That's straight from me to you. You can't refute theories and evidence with gut feeling.
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