The Chess Thread - Page 14
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fifasnipe2224
United States243 Posts
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
So then what's the point of even doing an opening or midgame? Isn't it basically just a formality at this point. I guess for noobs like me, chess will be exciting because I am ignorant and don't know the best moves to make in any given situation, but that the game would get more and more boring the more knowledge one accumulates, which seems soul crushing. My favorite chess games are the ones from back in the day, when the game was still new and hadn't been figured out yet, and so guys like Morphy, Alekhine, Capablanca, Lasker and other old school legendary players could rip opponents apart with brilliant combos and sacrifices. I fondly recall as a kid reading books by Irving Chernev where he documented those chess legends in descriptive notation, which even feels more nostalgic and romantic than algebraic. Seems like today with modern chess is more about entering the mid and end game with each player having slight subtle advantages that they then try to improve upon. This seems to be a result of the game being figured out so that huge blunders no longer exist, resulting in the inability to do stuff like sick queen sacrifices. I dunno maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but iirc Josh Waitzkin lost his passion for chess because as he became better and better at the game, it became more about cold rote memorization and calculation than creativity. | ||
Ettick
United States2434 Posts
![]() Black to move and mate in 4 moves + Show Spoiler + 1. ... Qxe3+ 2. Kh1 Qg3 3. Rf4 Rd1+ 4. Rf1 Rxf1# | ||
Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On March 15 2014 09:35 fishjie wrote: So I want to study chess, but isn't it kind of pointless memorization now? Seems like the best moves for all the openings already been calculated up to the first 20 or so moves, which would mean the real game doesn't even start until the endgame anyway. No 'best' move has ever been calculated in an opening. To do that, you would have to calculate all possible games stemming from that move, effectively solving chess, something we're not significantly closer to doing than we were 100 years ago. You're confusing a solved opening with a well understood opening. There's a big difference. One is calculated and objectively true, the other represents the current body of knowledge and experience, both of which change constantly. Theory that goes 20 moves or deeper only exists in the most popular lines. The majority of lines in what we consider the opening are unexplored. And the endgame is just heavily biased toward calculation and tactics. Whereas the midgame has more room for creativity and strategy. As computers get better, pretty sure all the openings, even the unorthodox lines, will continue to get figured out. There's a lot of room for creativity in endgames. Magnus Carlsen's dominance in endgames is less based on superior technique and more to do with making very few mistakes while having an incredible sense for how to create problems for his opponents. Computers have little to do with 'figuring out all the openings'. Openings are the part of the game computers understand the least. So then what's the point of even doing an opening or midgame? Isn't it basically just a formality at this point. I really hope I don't have to explain why calling the midgame a formality is ludicrous. As for the opening, it's far, far from a formality. Carlsen, the undisputed best player in the world, routinely gets outplayed in the opening. He once joked that he considered it a success to get out of the opening in an equal position vs Kramnik, even as white. This has nothing to do with memorisation. Unless you play very theoretical main lines, something most players have been shying away from, you leave theory long before you leave the opening or early middle game. I guess for noobs like me, chess will be exciting because I am ignorant and don't know the best moves to make in any given situation, but that the game would get more and more boring the more knowledge one accumulates, which seems soul crushing. My favorite chess games are the ones from back in the day, when the game was still new and hadn't been figured out yet, and so guys like Morphy, Alekhine, Capablanca, Lasker and other old school legendary players could rip opponents apart with brilliant combos and sacrifices. I fondly recall as a kid reading books by Irving Chernev where he documented those chess legends in descriptive notation, which even feels more nostalgic and romantic than algebraic. Seems like today with modern chess is more about entering the mid and end game with each player having slight subtle advantages that they then try to improve upon. This seems to be a result of the game being figured out so that huge blunders no longer exist, resulting in the inability to do stuff like sick queen sacrifices. I dunno maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but iirc Josh Waitzkin lost his passion for chess because as he became better and better at the game, it became more about cold rote memorization and calculation than creativity. Blunders exist just as much as ever. Queen sacrifices have very little to do with creativity. You don't sac a queen because your creative mind feels like it, you do it for very concrete reasons. In fact, even though you seem to dislike calculation, all the brilliancies you mention in your paragraph are mostly results of superior calculation. Unless you're an international master or higher, memorisation and opening study isn't particularly important. Yes, it helps, but there are so many aspects to the game that you can easily make up for knowing less theory. In fact, most chess instructors believe that studying opening theory is the worst way to get proficient at the game and holds many intermediate club players back. | ||
GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
Round 3: Andreikin vs. Karjakin Svidler vs. Kramnik Topalov vs. Aronian Mamedyarov vs. Anand Live streams: + Show Spoiler + Standings: + Show Spoiler + Info: + Show Spoiler + March 13 - March 31 Games start every day at 09:00 GMT (+00:00) Location: Ханты-Мансийск, Россия (in the middle of nowhere) Average rating: 2770 Prize money: 600000 EUR Format: Double round robin (14 rounds) Time control: 120+60+15 (like in WCS) The winner will face Magnus Carlsen in autumn. Official Site: http://candidates2014.fide.com/ Players: + Show Spoiler + 1. Viswanathan Anand (IND, former World Champion) ![]() 2. Vladimir Kramnik (RUS, World Cup 2013 winner) ![]() 3. Dmitry Andreikin (RUS, World Cup 2013 finalist) ![]() 4. Veselin Topalov (BUL, Grand-Prix 2012-13 winner) ![]() 5. Shakhriyar Mamedyarov (AZE, Grand-Prix 2012-13 runner-up) ![]() 6. Levon Aronian (ARM, rating list 2012-13) ![]() 7. Sergey Karjakin (RUS, rating list 2012-13) ![]() 8. Peter Svidler (RUS, host nominee) ![]() | ||
Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
He is probably the only one that could pose a real threat to Carlsen. However, apart from Andreikin, all of the players have some realistic chances to win this. Mind that Kramnik, Anand and Topalov (and Mamedyarov) are all former world champions. Anand is looking good so far, would be nice if he could win this. | ||
eekmice
United States373 Posts
On March 15 2014 19:03 Mafe wrote: Who is supposed to be the favorite? I don't think Anand should be underestimated. Aronian but people like Kramnik the best in terms of actually beating Carlsen. | ||
urboss
Austria1223 Posts
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
Can he find it? ![]() | ||
wingpawn
Poland1342 Posts
I have no idea what's going on with Mamedyarov. Yesterday blundering a Queen, today getting outplayed right in a Grunfeld middlegame. He plays like a person who has absolutely no hope of becoming a challenger. | ||
3FFA
United States3931 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
Anand is now in the lead with 2.5 points. Anand's powerful bishop play Kramnik's amazing defense Daniel King's review ![]() | ||
don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
On March 12 2014 01:57 Raysalis wrote: Haha, I just finished playing a tournament in the weekend after 3 years of chess inactivity. The TL close tourney must have been pretty inspiring :D As for advice for 3FFA, one of the biggest problems i faced was the terrible visualization and calculation skills after not playing chess for so long. I have only been playing blitz online where calculations were superficial or the online correspondence chess where one can be lazy and just move the pieces on the analysis board without visualizing anything :p. Unfortunately bad visualization & calculation = take long time = time trouble = unnecessary loss. If you think you might have this problem, i suggest going over games of masters and try to calculate and visualize the ideas and moves just to warm up the calculation muscles. Probably a good idea to use a real tournament size chess board instead of the computer screen. Also do some tactics everyday to warmup. I don't think studying any new stuff before the tournament will help too much, unless is some basic important stuff that might be lacking or you know your specific opponent and is preparing something special for him. Most of the learning will be from the games after the tournaments have finished. Well good luck to both of you and hope you guys have fun ![]() Just got back from the chess club. Man, playing OTB chess is really something. Not like online chess at all. I shall write a blog on it in coming week. | ||
3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On March 16 2014 19:48 don_kyuhote wrote: Just got back from the chess club. Man, playing OTB chess is really something. Not like online chess at all. I shall write a blog on it in coming week. Yeah. OTB chess has a lot more elements to it that cause your normal view of the game to change due to psychological things. Online you don't care enough to let that happen to, plus human interaction isn't an issue. | ||
nikj
Canada669 Posts
On March 16 2014 19:48 don_kyuhote wrote: Just got back from the chess club. Man, playing OTB chess is really something. Not like online chess at all. I shall write a blog on it in coming week. Cool, look forward to reading it. Maybe it will inspire me to go to the local Regina club this Thursday. I just found out it existed! | ||
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