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The Chess Thread - Page 14

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fifasnipe2224
Profile Joined January 2011
United States243 Posts
March 14 2014 17:42 GMT
#261
Upcoming Reddit AMA with Magnus Carlsen
.:RoS:.
urboss
Profile Joined September 2013
Austria1223 Posts
March 14 2014 20:25 GMT
#262
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
March 14 2014 22:31 GMT
#263
Daniel King's recap of today's games:

fishjie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1519 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-15 00:38:29
March 15 2014 00:35 GMT
#264
So I want to study chess, but isn't it kind of pointless memorization now? Seems like the best moves for all the openings already been calculated up to the first 20 or so moves, which would mean the real game doesn't even start until the endgame anyway. And the endgame is just heavily biased toward calculation and tactics. Whereas the midgame has more room for creativity and strategy. As computers get better, pretty sure all the openings, even the unorthodox lines, will continue to get figured out.

So then what's the point of even doing an opening or midgame? Isn't it basically just a formality at this point. I guess for noobs like me, chess will be exciting because I am ignorant and don't know the best moves to make in any given situation, but that the game would get more and more boring the more knowledge one accumulates, which seems soul crushing. My favorite chess games are the ones from back in the day, when the game was still new and hadn't been figured out yet, and so guys like Morphy, Alekhine, Capablanca, Lasker and other old school legendary players could rip opponents apart with brilliant combos and sacrifices. I fondly recall as a kid reading books by Irving Chernev where he documented those chess legends in descriptive notation, which even feels more nostalgic and romantic than algebraic.

Seems like today with modern chess is more about entering the mid and end game with each player having slight subtle advantages that they then try to improve upon. This seems to be a result of the game being figured out so that huge blunders no longer exist, resulting in the inability to do stuff like sick queen sacrifices. I dunno maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but iirc Josh Waitzkin lost his passion for chess because as he became better and better at the game, it became more about cold rote memorization and calculation than creativity.
Ettick
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States2434 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-15 00:42:39
March 15 2014 00:40 GMT
#265
Had this position in a recent game of mine

[image loading]

Black to move and mate in 4 moves

+ Show Spoiler +
1. ... Qxe3+ 2. Kh1 Qg3 3. Rf4 Rd1+ 4. Rf1 Rxf1#
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
March 15 2014 01:46 GMT
#266
Your perception of chess is very, very off.

On March 15 2014 09:35 fishjie wrote:
So I want to study chess, but isn't it kind of pointless memorization now? Seems like the best moves for all the openings already been calculated up to the first 20 or so moves, which would mean the real game doesn't even start until the endgame anyway.


No 'best' move has ever been calculated in an opening. To do that, you would have to calculate all possible games stemming from that move, effectively solving chess, something we're not significantly closer to doing than we were 100 years ago. You're confusing a solved opening with a well understood opening. There's a big difference. One is calculated and objectively true, the other represents the current body of knowledge and experience, both of which change constantly. Theory that goes 20 moves or deeper only exists in the most popular lines. The majority of lines in what we consider the opening are unexplored.


And the endgame is just heavily biased toward calculation and tactics. Whereas the midgame has more room for creativity and strategy. As computers get better, pretty sure all the openings, even the unorthodox lines, will continue to get figured out.


There's a lot of room for creativity in endgames. Magnus Carlsen's dominance in endgames is less based on superior technique and more to do with making very few mistakes while having an incredible sense for how to create problems for his opponents.

Computers have little to do with 'figuring out all the openings'. Openings are the part of the game computers understand the least.

So then what's the point of even doing an opening or midgame? Isn't it basically just a formality at this point.


I really hope I don't have to explain why calling the midgame a formality is ludicrous.

As for the opening, it's far, far from a formality. Carlsen, the undisputed best player in the world, routinely gets outplayed in the opening. He once joked that he considered it a success to get out of the opening in an equal position vs Kramnik, even as white. This has nothing to do with memorisation. Unless you play very theoretical main lines, something most players have been shying away from, you leave theory long before you leave the opening or early middle game.

I guess for noobs like me, chess will be exciting because I am ignorant and don't know the best moves to make in any given situation, but that the game would get more and more boring the more knowledge one accumulates, which seems soul crushing. My favorite chess games are the ones from back in the day, when the game was still new and hadn't been figured out yet, and so guys like Morphy, Alekhine, Capablanca, Lasker and other old school legendary players could rip opponents apart with brilliant combos and sacrifices. I fondly recall as a kid reading books by Irving Chernev where he documented those chess legends in descriptive notation, which even feels more nostalgic and romantic than algebraic.

Seems like today with modern chess is more about entering the mid and end game with each player having slight subtle advantages that they then try to improve upon. This seems to be a result of the game being figured out so that huge blunders no longer exist, resulting in the inability to do stuff like sick queen sacrifices. I dunno maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but iirc Josh Waitzkin lost his passion for chess because as he became better and better at the game, it became more about cold rote memorization and calculation than creativity.


Blunders exist just as much as ever. Queen sacrifices have very little to do with creativity. You don't sac a queen because your creative mind feels like it, you do it for very concrete reasons. In fact, even though you seem to dislike calculation, all the brilliancies you mention in your paragraph are mostly results of superior calculation.

Unless you're an international master or higher, memorisation and opening study isn't particularly important. Yes, it helps, but there are so many aspects to the game that you can easily make up for knowing less theory. In fact, most chess instructors believe that studying opening theory is the worst way to get proficient at the game and holds many intermediate club players back.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
March 15 2014 02:12 GMT
#267
I much prefer knowing enough theory to get by and having a good understanding of the ideas and positions in openings. Studying opening theory is the worst.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
urboss
Profile Joined September 2013
Austria1223 Posts
March 15 2014 07:11 GMT
#268
Candidates Tournament 2014:

Round 3:
Andreikin vs. Karjakin
Svidler vs. Kramnik
Topalov vs. Aronian
Mamedyarov vs. Anand



Live streams:
+ Show Spoiler +

http://www.chessdom.com/candidates-2014-video-stream-live
http://www.twitch.tv/internetchessclub
http://candidates2014.fide.com
http://www.chessdom.com/candidates-chess-2014-live
http://chessbomb.com/site
http://www.twitch.tv/amazingoid



Standings:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

Post-game analyses:
+ Show Spoiler +

IM chessexplained
NM ChessNetwork
GM Daniel King
CM kingscrusher





Info:
+ Show Spoiler +

March 13 - March 31
Games start every day at 09:00 GMT (+00:00)
Location: Ханты-Мансийск, Россия (in the middle of nowhere)
Average rating: 2770
Prize money: 600000 EUR
Format: Double round robin (14 rounds)
Time control: 120+60+15 (like in WCS)
The winner will face Magnus Carlsen in autumn.

Official Site:
http://candidates2014.fide.com/

Players:
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Viswanathan Anand (IND, former World Champion)

[image loading]


2. Vladimir Kramnik (RUS, World Cup 2013 winner)

[image loading]


3. Dmitry Andreikin (RUS, World Cup 2013 finalist)

[image loading]


4. Veselin Topalov (BUL, Grand-Prix 2012-13 winner)

[image loading]


5. Shakhriyar Mamedyarov (AZE, Grand-Prix 2012-13 runner-up)

[image loading]


6. Levon Aronian (ARM, rating list 2012-13)

[image loading]


7. Sergey Karjakin (RUS, rating list 2012-13)

[image loading]


8. Peter Svidler (RUS, host nominee)

[image loading]



Mafe
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany5966 Posts
March 15 2014 10:03 GMT
#269
Who is supposed to be the favorite? I don't think Anand should be underestimated.
urboss
Profile Joined September 2013
Austria1223 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-15 11:06:30
March 15 2014 11:05 GMT
#270
Aronian is considered to be the favorite.
He is probably the only one that could pose a real threat to Carlsen.

However, apart from Andreikin, all of the players have some realistic chances to win this.
Mind that Kramnik, Anand and Topalov (and Mamedyarov) are all former world champions.

Anand is looking good so far, would be nice if he could win this.
eekmice
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States373 Posts
March 15 2014 11:09 GMT
#271
On March 15 2014 19:03 Mafe wrote:
Who is supposed to be the favorite? I don't think Anand should be underestimated.


Aronian but people like Kramnik the best in terms of actually beating Carlsen.
urboss
Profile Joined September 2013
Austria1223 Posts
March 15 2014 11:30 GMT
#272
Topalov gives up a piece, Houdini liking his position:

[image loading]
urboss
Profile Joined September 2013
Austria1223 Posts
March 15 2014 13:45 GMT
#273
Here Kramnik (Black) has only one move that keeps him in the game.
Can he find it?

[image loading]
wingpawn
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Poland1342 Posts
March 15 2014 14:55 GMT
#274
@fishjie - the importance opening memorization is only true for cerain openings like Ruy Lopez or Grunfeld Defense. For many others, it's more a matter of general strategical understanding and knowing typical plans/ideas. Also, what I've noticed is that once you get better, the games usually get less sharp because stronger players are much more skilled at cutting out possible tactics and steer the game for slow positional play.

I have no idea what's going on with Mamedyarov. Yesterday blundering a Queen, today getting outplayed right in a Grunfeld middlegame. He plays like a person who has absolutely no hope of becoming a challenger.
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
March 16 2014 03:03 GMT
#275
Can I get a good analysis and/or chess engine program on my computer for free?
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
March 16 2014 03:06 GMT
#276
Yes, you can! A good GUI is chessX (http://chessx.sourceforge.net/) and a very good engine is stockfish (http://stockfishchess.org/)
urboss
Profile Joined September 2013
Austria1223 Posts
March 16 2014 08:39 GMT
#277
Candidates tournament round 3 recap:

Anand is now in the lead with 2.5 points.


Anand's powerful bishop play

Kramnik's amazing defense


Daniel King's review



[image loading]

don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3007 Posts
March 16 2014 10:48 GMT
#278
On March 12 2014 01:57 Raysalis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2014 23:12 don_kyuhote wrote:
On March 08 2014 01:34 3FFA wrote:
What do you guys do to prepare for tournaments? Do you follow any sort of day to day schedule of some sort?

Is it better to relax the day before or study rather hard the day before? A mix of the two?

Mang, you planning on going to a tournament soon? Because SO AM I
Local club is having a club championship next week. Gonna be the 1st over the board chess I play in about 4.5 years.

The one and only chess tournament that I ever went to was 6 years ago. I lost the 1st game due to leaving a knight en prise in otherwise an even game, but fought back to win 3 in a row to finish the day 3 win 1 loss.

Just have fun mang. Don't take yourself too seriously if/when you lose. It's more important to just have fun.





Haha, I just finished playing a tournament in the weekend after 3 years of chess inactivity. The TL close tourney must have been pretty inspiring :D

As for advice for 3FFA, one of the biggest problems i faced was the terrible visualization and calculation skills after not playing chess for so long. I have only been playing blitz online where calculations were superficial or the online correspondence chess where one can be lazy and just move the pieces on the analysis board without visualizing anything :p. Unfortunately bad visualization & calculation = take long time = time trouble = unnecessary loss.

If you think you might have this problem, i suggest going over games of masters and try to calculate and visualize the ideas and moves just to warm up the calculation muscles. Probably a good idea to use a real tournament size chess board instead of the computer screen. Also do some tactics everyday to warmup. I don't think studying any new stuff before the tournament will help too much, unless is some basic important stuff that might be lacking or you know your specific opponent and is preparing something special for him. Most of the learning will be from the games after the tournaments have finished.

Well good luck to both of you and hope you guys have fun .

Just got back from the chess club. Man, playing OTB chess is really something. Not like online chess at all. I shall write a blog on it in coming week.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
March 16 2014 13:16 GMT
#279
On March 16 2014 19:48 don_kyuhote wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2014 01:57 Raysalis wrote:
On March 09 2014 23:12 don_kyuhote wrote:
On March 08 2014 01:34 3FFA wrote:
What do you guys do to prepare for tournaments? Do you follow any sort of day to day schedule of some sort?

Is it better to relax the day before or study rather hard the day before? A mix of the two?

Mang, you planning on going to a tournament soon? Because SO AM I
Local club is having a club championship next week. Gonna be the 1st over the board chess I play in about 4.5 years.

The one and only chess tournament that I ever went to was 6 years ago. I lost the 1st game due to leaving a knight en prise in otherwise an even game, but fought back to win 3 in a row to finish the day 3 win 1 loss.

Just have fun mang. Don't take yourself too seriously if/when you lose. It's more important to just have fun.





Haha, I just finished playing a tournament in the weekend after 3 years of chess inactivity. The TL close tourney must have been pretty inspiring :D

As for advice for 3FFA, one of the biggest problems i faced was the terrible visualization and calculation skills after not playing chess for so long. I have only been playing blitz online where calculations were superficial or the online correspondence chess where one can be lazy and just move the pieces on the analysis board without visualizing anything :p. Unfortunately bad visualization & calculation = take long time = time trouble = unnecessary loss.

If you think you might have this problem, i suggest going over games of masters and try to calculate and visualize the ideas and moves just to warm up the calculation muscles. Probably a good idea to use a real tournament size chess board instead of the computer screen. Also do some tactics everyday to warmup. I don't think studying any new stuff before the tournament will help too much, unless is some basic important stuff that might be lacking or you know your specific opponent and is preparing something special for him. Most of the learning will be from the games after the tournaments have finished.

Well good luck to both of you and hope you guys have fun .

Just got back from the chess club. Man, playing OTB chess is really something. Not like online chess at all. I shall write a blog on it in coming week.


Yeah. OTB chess has a lot more elements to it that cause your normal view of the game to change due to psychological things. Online you don't care enough to let that happen to, plus human interaction isn't an issue.
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
nikj
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada669 Posts
March 16 2014 18:25 GMT
#280
On March 16 2014 19:48 don_kyuhote wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2014 01:57 Raysalis wrote:
On March 09 2014 23:12 don_kyuhote wrote:
On March 08 2014 01:34 3FFA wrote:
What do you guys do to prepare for tournaments? Do you follow any sort of day to day schedule of some sort?

Is it better to relax the day before or study rather hard the day before? A mix of the two?

Mang, you planning on going to a tournament soon? Because SO AM I
Local club is having a club championship next week. Gonna be the 1st over the board chess I play in about 4.5 years.

The one and only chess tournament that I ever went to was 6 years ago. I lost the 1st game due to leaving a knight en prise in otherwise an even game, but fought back to win 3 in a row to finish the day 3 win 1 loss.

Just have fun mang. Don't take yourself too seriously if/when you lose. It's more important to just have fun.





Haha, I just finished playing a tournament in the weekend after 3 years of chess inactivity. The TL close tourney must have been pretty inspiring :D

As for advice for 3FFA, one of the biggest problems i faced was the terrible visualization and calculation skills after not playing chess for so long. I have only been playing blitz online where calculations were superficial or the online correspondence chess where one can be lazy and just move the pieces on the analysis board without visualizing anything :p. Unfortunately bad visualization & calculation = take long time = time trouble = unnecessary loss.

If you think you might have this problem, i suggest going over games of masters and try to calculate and visualize the ideas and moves just to warm up the calculation muscles. Probably a good idea to use a real tournament size chess board instead of the computer screen. Also do some tactics everyday to warmup. I don't think studying any new stuff before the tournament will help too much, unless is some basic important stuff that might be lacking or you know your specific opponent and is preparing something special for him. Most of the learning will be from the games after the tournaments have finished.

Well good luck to both of you and hope you guys have fun .

Just got back from the chess club. Man, playing OTB chess is really something. Not like online chess at all. I shall write a blog on it in coming week.


Cool, look forward to reading it. Maybe it will inspire me to go to the local Regina club this Thursday. I just found out it existed!
Y'know sometimes people ask me y'know like "What's your religion and stuff?" And I'm like "y' know it's like RTS." Uh, and they're like, "What's that?" And I'm like, "Y'know it's kinda like, kinda like Buddism."
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