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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On July 18 2013 06:54 LegalLord wrote: Germany did it twice in the past 100 years. I think suspicion is justified. You are presumptious. Germany did it once. Read up on WW1 before making claims like this. | ||
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theking1
Romania658 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On July 18 2013 06:59 Mataza wrote: You are presumptious. Germany did it once. Read up on WW1 before making claims like this. By "did it" I mean "tried to take over Europe." It's reasonable to be suspicious of a country after that. | ||
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Pimpmuckl
Germany528 Posts
On July 18 2013 06:54 LegalLord wrote: Germany did it twice in the past 100 years. I think suspicion is justified. You have to be kidding me. A federal Republic with an extremly strong democratic base, in the European Nation AND the NATO (where the US is, too) and a rotating Member of the UN-Security Council should be met with suspicion? And in case you didn't notice yet: The Germany now is completely different to the Germany back then. He does not deserve a peace price but a worldwide recognition for human rights, guy is a hero. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:03 LegalLord wrote: By "did it" I mean "tried to take over Europe." It's reasonable to be suspicious of a country after that. When do we get to talk about all the shitty things the US has done in the past century? Or any country, for that matter? There's scarcely a country in Europe that hasn't ruled a large part of it at some point in history. | ||
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theking1
Romania658 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:06 Pimpmuckl wrote: You have to be kidding me. A federal Republic with an extremly strong democratic base, in the European Nation AND the NATO (where the US is, too) and a rotating Member of the UN-Security Council should be met with suspicion? And in case you didn't notice yet: The Germany now is completely different to the Germany back then. He does not deserve a peace price but a worldwide recognition for human rights, guy is a hero. A lot of americans in this forum confuse America with leaders such as George W Bush and think that country can do no wrong.They have strayed away form the principles of their own founding fathers and the amendments of their own constitution.Nowadays they follow principles such as "Guilty until proven innocent" aka "Germany most surely spies on the USA.we do not have any evidence but hey that did not stop us from invading Iraq and causing a war with about 1 million human lives lost'.remember Saddams mass destruction weapons?it is a very dangerous mentality when warmongering groups take power especially in a world superpower such as the USA and manage to manipulate the masses into renouncing even their most basic democratic principles.Obama had the image of a democratic leader,a nobel prize winner, who wanted to change things.After two warrants although doing positive things he still hasn't manage to tackle the problem of USA insecurities after September 11. Fearmongering is a common thing thing this days in the US and groups such as NSA rely on that to accumulate even more dictatorial power and do whatever they want.when the NSA files will be open to the public I think watergate will seem like childsplay | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:06 Pimpmuckl wrote: You have to be kidding me. A federal Republic with an extremly strong democratic base, in the European Nation AND the NATO (where the US is, too) and a rotating Member of the UN-Security Council should be met with suspicion? And in case you didn't notice yet: The Germany now is completely different to the Germany back then. I do not believe for one second that the grandchildren of the Germans of WWII and the great grandchildren of the Germans of WWI are so different that they don't need to be kept in check once in a while. People simply do not change that easily, and it's a "fool me once" type of deal. On July 18 2013 07:09 Shiori wrote: When do we get to talk about all the shitty things the US has done in the past century? Or any country, for that matter? There's scarcely a country in Europe that hasn't ruled a large part of it at some point in history. And that's why we need spies. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Gijian
United States273 Posts
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Shiori
3815 Posts
I do not believe for one second that the grandchildren of the Germans of WWII and the great grandchildren of the Germans of WWI are so different that they don't need to be kept in check once in a while. People simply do not change that easily, and it's a "fool me once" type of deal. Wait...you think that WWII was because of some problem with the German people themselves (transmitted genetically, I guess?) rather than with a party of ideologues who took advantage of widespread unrest to scapegoat the rest of Europe/minorities and gain power???? What you're saying is so blatantly fucking racist that it's disturbing. In what way are the Germans of today not "different" enough from those of WWII? In what way do you believe that the average German citizen in 1940 was different from one in America/Britain? In what way do you think the conscripted armies differed? And that's why we need spies. Korean War, Vietnam, Gulf War, Afghanistan, Iraq, and the general theme of the Cold War dominated the last 50 years of American foreign politics, and you're saying that we need to worry about the fucking descendants Germans who happened to be ruled by the Nazis???? LMAO. Some people... | ||
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amaDeus
Germany205 Posts
I do not believe for one second that the grandchildren of the Germans of WWII and the great grandchildren of the Germans of WWI are so different that they don't need to be kept in check once in a while. People simply do not change that easily, and it's a "fool me once" type of deal. So basically you're saying I inherited the nazism of the older generations of this nation? Cause it's spreading from grandgrandfather to grandfather to father to son? Or like a cloud - nazism hanging over germany? I guess the denazification wasn't able to clear out all the evil spirits. wat? Some heroic award...maybe. Nobel Peace Prize? No. What Alfred Nobel had in mind was for someone that "shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." Also, I'm totally not sure of how Snowden's action actually promoted peace. Controversies, suspicions, and hatred, yes. Peace? No...at least not at the moment. imo it's a step towards peace. Can you call it peace if nations mistrust each other? I'd describe it as fake peace. It's a time of cyberwar; war's aren't won by spears and shields anymore, they are won through the internet. i'd give him the nobel peace prize. he deserves it. too bad it won't happen. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:29 amaDeus wrote: So basically you're saying I inherited the nazism of the older generations of this nation? Cause it's spreading from grandgrandfather to grandfather to father to son? Or like a cloud - nazism hanging over germany? I guess the denazification wasn't able to clear out all the evil spirits. wat? I wouldn't say that that's certainly the case, but to rule that possibility out is just naive. However, I will end it at this, because pursuing this point can only devolve into a flame war: keeping allies in check is good measure, and that's what espionage is for. | ||
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Gijian
United States273 Posts
imo it's a step towards peace. Can you call it peace if nations mistrust each other? I'd describe it as fake peace. It's a time of cyberwar; war's aren't won by spears and shields anymore, they are won through the internet. i'd give him the nobel peace prize. he deserves it. too bad it won't happen. You think exposing the inconvenience truth will generate less mistrust? Okay... If you caught your significant other cheating on you, would you ever trust him/her again? His action will generate a FAKE peace because now everyone is suspicious of one another even more. | ||
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theking1
Romania658 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:29 amaDeus wrote: So basically you're saying I inherited the nazism of the older generations of this nation? Cause it's spreading from grandgrandfather to grandfather to father to son? Or like a cloud - nazism hanging over germany? I guess the denazification wasn't able to clear out all the evil spirits. wat? imo it's a step towards peace. Can you call it peace if nations mistrust each other? I'd describe it as fake peace. It's a time of cyberwar; war's aren't won by spears and shields anymore, they are won through the internet. i'd give him the nobel peace prize. he deserves it. too bad it won't happen. He is dead serious, probably a hardcore conservative loony/foxnews watcher/glen back fan.it is quite common to hear this reccurent theme propagated to give the american conservatives a sense of accomplishement,you will find that motos such as"USA is the land of the free home of the brave,germans are nazis,europeans are communists,russians and chinesse are enemies" are used to instill fearmongering.If you really wanna know how deep the manipulation goes check out this fearmongering clip regarding the netherlands form fox news: They are mad and rely on lies to manipulate their people. | ||
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amaDeus
Germany205 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:37 Gijian wrote: You think exposing the inconvenience truth will generate less mistrust? Okay... If you caught your significant other cheating on you, would you ever trust him/her again? His action will generate a FAKE peace because now everyone is suspicious of one another even more. At the end of the day it may generate less mistrust. i think it does - but that's my opinion, how said. the trust is mostly gone the moment the other is cheating on you (/how much depends on whatever is the equivalent of cheating), but it can be rebuilt. i'd rather live in a honest world with a bit of mistrust left than in a world with fake peace. i define fake peace not by being suspicious, but by being able to get rid of it because nations actually listen to each other more than they do now. (happy lil dream world) oh well and i just don't want any organisation spying on personal matters without me knowing or not able to do sth about it. facebook google and all that i know about, the things NSA did - i did not know until there was snowden. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:33 LegalLord wrote: I wouldn't say that that's certainly the case, but to rule that possibility out is just naive. However, I will end it at this, because pursuing this point can only devolve into a flame war: keeping allies in check is good measure, and that's what espionage is for. How the hell can someone inherit Nazism? It's a political system and ideology, not a genetic trait. What's more, Nazism is illegal in Germany. So in what way could it actually be inherited?! Like your argument is actually eerily similar to the logic employed by Nazis to emphasize their "racial purity." | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
On July 18 2013 01:27 sc2superfan101 wrote: No, see you're missing the point. I don't give a fuck about Republican vs Democrat. Stop bringing it up. It's irrelevant. I repeat my question: How could you not be anti-Obama if you actually think he will murder a man for posting classified information? Easy, Did he make that decision? Or did he decide that its not worth his time and is letting his party work it out. (Notice how he has been relatively quiet about Snowden for some time, other than firing his advisor that wanted to arrest Snowden badly) If you believe that everything that is done that is high profile is decided by the president, I think that you don't really understand politics. It is a party issue and issues of national security are only temporarily handled by the president, then they go to congress, unless they fight for the case. There is a national security council that the president presides, but in turn most decisions are made by ununanimous consensus including Joe Biden, John Kerry, Chuck Hagel, and advice from people like James Clapper, Tony Blinkin, Janet Napolitano, and Lisa Monaco. (Janet Napolitano resigned over this. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/07/15/who-will-replace-janet-napolitano-as-head-of-homeland-security/) If Obama views this as more of an important issue, (Catching Snowden) I think he would have put pressure on other countries, instead of firing one of his national security advisors who wanted to catch him. The politicians angry about snowden making statements generally aren't even these people, they are republicans who are mad that we aren't going after Snowden like Senator McCain. I think that based off of recent information, Democrats are not going after him and republicans are stating its a bad idea in general. Snowden does not deserve a peace prize for his actions. If he stayed and was arrested, like Mikhail Khodorkovskky, I think that would show something. Other people deserve it more. | ||
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yOngKIN
Korea (North)656 Posts
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:33 LegalLord wrote: I wouldn't say that that's certainly the case, but to rule that possibility out is just naive. However, I will end it at this, because pursuing this point can only devolve into a flame war: keeping allies in check is good measure, and that's what espionage is for. In that case I think it would be prudent of the USA to scrap their entire nuclear arsenal being the only country in the world to have used one and thus who knows when they might do it again?! | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
On July 18 2013 08:18 yOngKIN wrote: why not. Obama won it for nothing. At least Snowden has done something actually worthy. Yeah Obama's push for removing nuclear arsenals is not noteworthy person from North Korea. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
On July 18 2013 08:21 tokinho wrote: Yeah Obama's push for removing nuclear arsenals is not noteworthy person from North Korea. All words, little progress... | ||
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