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Well, killing off the lib dems would count as a success for the conservative party. In general, if it wasn't for Brexit I would had rated David Cameron positively.
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On February 03 2018 00:41 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Isn't it the opposite? The House of Lords is a weird system that doesn't really make sense but works, whilst the US electoral college system looks like it makes sense but doesn't work out in practise.
It doesn’t make sense to you in the in England. We are a nation of states and that office is supposed to represent all 50 states. The only way to assure that all 50 get some say in the process is through a system that isn’t based on popular vote. And the states willingly joined the US early on and the states that were not New York and Massachusetts were not keen on a popular vote system for the highest office. But every other office in the country works on popular vote.
Sometimes it doesn’t work that well. And sometimes you all vote and then the government fails instantly and you need to do it again like a bunch of crazy people or something. And you have a house of lord that isn’t all lords and ladies. And you a think called the shadow cabinet and it isn’t the illuminate. Our governments are really stupid, unless you look at the alternative.
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Having votes purely on population isn't good and by far not all countries vote their representatives in like that?
Doing it for the president is problematic tho. He represents the people, not a state. If the popular vote is clearly opposite to the result, your president would have real legitimacy problems.
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I think British democracy is both institutionally significantly less democratic, but functionally and constitutionally so much more flexible than US democracy as to make each version seem ridiculous to the counterpart. The problems with the flexibility and make-it-up-as-we-go-along attitude of our democracy, despite functioning quite effectively for some time, have become apparent as a result of Brexit.
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It isn't until confronted by people with no regard for the system that you discover just how much of it relied on people getting along and doing the right thing.
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On February 03 2018 02:14 Velr wrote:
Having votes purely on population isn't good and by far not all countries vote their representatives in like that?
Doing it for the president is problematic tho. He represents the people, not a state. If the popular vote is clearly opposite to the result, your president would have real legitimacy problems.
There is an endless amount of research about what would happen if we moved to a popular vote system. The result is that "fly over country", or the center, would not have no say in the presidency. Long term that would not be healthy for a democracy. And there is also the problem that the constitution would never have been ratified by the states if the presidency was based on popular vote.
On February 03 2018 02:25 Gorsameth wrote:
It isn't until confronted by people with no regard for the system that you discover just how much of it relied on people getting along and doing the right thing.
I post about this about one a month in the US politics thread. Government is just an artifice. The same with law. If people refuse to play by the rules, there isn't a lot that can be done without the use of force. And that gets messy really fast.
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So? I just pointed out a very obvious flaw with your system. You probably shouldn't jump to a pure majority vote but adjustments could be made.
Who cares if it was written like that in the constitution, constitutions can and should change.
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On February 03 2018 02:31 Velr wrote:
So? I just pointed out a very obvious flaw with your system. You probably shouldn't jump to a pure majority vote but adjustments could be made.
Who cares if it was written like that in the constitution, constitutions can and should change.
Do you know how we change the constitution? It requires a 2/3 majority in both houses. And any change that would be made would cause states to either lose or gain power. The system is designed so we cannot re-write the rules because of one or two bad elections. And the system already grants electoral votes based on population. It isn't perfect, but there is no perfect solution.
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On February 02 2018 19:47 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 19:28 kollin wrote:On February 02 2018 19:05 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 08:55 iamthedave wrote:On January 26 2018 03:47 MyTHicaL wrote:On January 26 2018 02:50 Zaros wrote:
I think shes been sly about where she is on Brexit trying to play both sides, but with the botched reshuffle disaster after disaster and now a softening of the brexit stance some of the MPs are thinking it keeps getting worse we have to get rid of her. I don't think that she is that stupid. She knows that Brexit has no advantageous outcome so is pretending to up-play it to her own party/country, all the while singing a completely different tune to the EU behind closed doors. Thing is, they all know this. May isn't stupid by any means, and few people in the government actually are. Who wants to throw her under the bus just so they can get run over right afterwards? Whoever is in charge of this country through Brexit is screwed. That's near-100% why Cameron resigned; as a giant 'fuck you' to the dickwads in his own party who screwed up his big plan to kill UKIP. I mean, people are saying Michael Gove is one of the front runners to follow May. MICHAEL. GOVE. Mr 'Britain has had enough of experts'. I almost hope it happens. Fucker deserves the career execution. Except that wasn't his actual quote and he is basically the only person in Government actually doing anything. That's only a mark of the total incompetence of the Tories rather than a sign of any real proficiency as a politician. Let's not forget the growing education recruitment crisis started under his tenure. I agree the party is an incompetent mess at the moment but even in the Cameron years where it wasn't incompetent Gove was the person who got things done, Education is obviously controversial and he is not popular with teachers but he enacted massive change quickly and probably framed it in the wrong way, I think at Justice he learned from that and he had all the stakeholders on side before Theresa May booted him out, now again on the Environment he is reforming without alienating a large stakeholder. If you want things to change then he is the best politician to have running a department (or perhaps the country if May goes) at the moment.
Wasn't May seen as a competent minister? There's a world of difference between being a minister and prime minister.
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On February 03 2018 06:05 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 19:47 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 19:28 kollin wrote:On February 02 2018 19:05 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 08:55 iamthedave wrote:On January 26 2018 03:47 MyTHicaL wrote:On January 26 2018 02:50 Zaros wrote:
I think shes been sly about where she is on Brexit trying to play both sides, but with the botched reshuffle disaster after disaster and now a softening of the brexit stance some of the MPs are thinking it keeps getting worse we have to get rid of her. I don't think that she is that stupid. She knows that Brexit has no advantageous outcome so is pretending to up-play it to her own party/country, all the while singing a completely different tune to the EU behind closed doors. Thing is, they all know this. May isn't stupid by any means, and few people in the government actually are. Who wants to throw her under the bus just so they can get run over right afterwards? Whoever is in charge of this country through Brexit is screwed. That's near-100% why Cameron resigned; as a giant 'fuck you' to the dickwads in his own party who screwed up his big plan to kill UKIP. I mean, people are saying Michael Gove is one of the front runners to follow May. MICHAEL. GOVE. Mr 'Britain has had enough of experts'. I almost hope it happens. Fucker deserves the career execution. Except that wasn't his actual quote and he is basically the only person in Government actually doing anything. That's only a mark of the total incompetence of the Tories rather than a sign of any real proficiency as a politician. Let's not forget the growing education recruitment crisis started under his tenure. I agree the party is an incompetent mess at the moment but even in the Cameron years where it wasn't incompetent Gove was the person who got things done, Education is obviously controversial and he is not popular with teachers but he enacted massive change quickly and probably framed it in the wrong way, I think at Justice he learned from that and he had all the stakeholders on side before Theresa May booted him out, now again on the Environment he is reforming without alienating a large stakeholder. If you want things to change then he is the best politician to have running a department (or perhaps the country if May goes) at the moment. Wasn't May seen as a competent minister? There's a world of difference between being a minister and prime minister.
Again I would dispute that at the risk of sounding like a broken record.
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On February 03 2018 06:05 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 19:47 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 19:28 kollin wrote:On February 02 2018 19:05 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 08:55 iamthedave wrote:On January 26 2018 03:47 MyTHicaL wrote:On January 26 2018 02:50 Zaros wrote:
I think shes been sly about where she is on Brexit trying to play both sides, but with the botched reshuffle disaster after disaster and now a softening of the brexit stance some of the MPs are thinking it keeps getting worse we have to get rid of her. I don't think that she is that stupid. She knows that Brexit has no advantageous outcome so is pretending to up-play it to her own party/country, all the while singing a completely different tune to the EU behind closed doors. Thing is, they all know this. May isn't stupid by any means, and few people in the government actually are. Who wants to throw her under the bus just so they can get run over right afterwards? Whoever is in charge of this country through Brexit is screwed. That's near-100% why Cameron resigned; as a giant 'fuck you' to the dickwads in his own party who screwed up his big plan to kill UKIP. I mean, people are saying Michael Gove is one of the front runners to follow May. MICHAEL. GOVE. Mr 'Britain has had enough of experts'. I almost hope it happens. Fucker deserves the career execution. Except that wasn't his actual quote and he is basically the only person in Government actually doing anything. That's only a mark of the total incompetence of the Tories rather than a sign of any real proficiency as a politician. Let's not forget the growing education recruitment crisis started under his tenure. I agree the party is an incompetent mess at the moment but even in the Cameron years where it wasn't incompetent Gove was the person who got things done, Education is obviously controversial and he is not popular with teachers but he enacted massive change quickly and probably framed it in the wrong way, I think at Justice he learned from that and he had all the stakeholders on side before Theresa May booted him out, now again on the Environment he is reforming without alienating a large stakeholder. If you want things to change then he is the best politician to have running a department (or perhaps the country if May goes) at the moment. Wasn't May seen as a competent minister? There's a world of difference between being a minister and prime minister.
That doesn't sound right to me though. At least not in her role as Home Secretary.
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United States43987 Posts
It's absurd to say flyover country would have no influence if it was weighted by votes. You might as well argue that an individual should get a special grant of an electoral college vote because otherwise they'd have no influence. If it was decided by vote count the voters there would have the exact same influence as anyone else. There are simply fewer of them. You don't fix the problem of a small arbitrary group containing fewer voters than a larger arbitrary group by giving them more votes.
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On February 03 2018 11:39 KwarK wrote:
It's absurd to say flyover country would have no influence if it was weighted by votes. You might as well argue that an individual should get a special grant of an electoral college vote because otherwise they'd have no influence. If it was decided by vote count the voters there would have the exact same influence as anyone else. There are simply fewer of them. You don't fix the problem of a small arbitrary group containing fewer voters than a larger arbitrary group by giving them more votes.
Kwark, you are an accounting so it should be hard to figure out how difficult it would be to amend the constitution to change the electoral college and how many states would need to vote to fuck themselves over.
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On February 03 2018 10:06 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 06:05 RvB wrote:On February 02 2018 19:47 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 19:28 kollin wrote:On February 02 2018 19:05 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 08:55 iamthedave wrote:On January 26 2018 03:47 MyTHicaL wrote:On January 26 2018 02:50 Zaros wrote:
I think shes been sly about where she is on Brexit trying to play both sides, but with the botched reshuffle disaster after disaster and now a softening of the brexit stance some of the MPs are thinking it keeps getting worse we have to get rid of her. I don't think that she is that stupid. She knows that Brexit has no advantageous outcome so is pretending to up-play it to her own party/country, all the while singing a completely different tune to the EU behind closed doors. Thing is, they all know this. May isn't stupid by any means, and few people in the government actually are. Who wants to throw her under the bus just so they can get run over right afterwards? Whoever is in charge of this country through Brexit is screwed. That's near-100% why Cameron resigned; as a giant 'fuck you' to the dickwads in his own party who screwed up his big plan to kill UKIP. I mean, people are saying Michael Gove is one of the front runners to follow May. MICHAEL. GOVE. Mr 'Britain has had enough of experts'. I almost hope it happens. Fucker deserves the career execution. Except that wasn't his actual quote and he is basically the only person in Government actually doing anything. That's only a mark of the total incompetence of the Tories rather than a sign of any real proficiency as a politician. Let's not forget the growing education recruitment crisis started under his tenure. I agree the party is an incompetent mess at the moment but even in the Cameron years where it wasn't incompetent Gove was the person who got things done, Education is obviously controversial and he is not popular with teachers but he enacted massive change quickly and probably framed it in the wrong way, I think at Justice he learned from that and he had all the stakeholders on side before Theresa May booted him out, now again on the Environment he is reforming without alienating a large stakeholder. If you want things to change then he is the best politician to have running a department (or perhaps the country if May goes) at the moment. Wasn't May seen as a competent minister? There's a world of difference between being a minister and prime minister. Again I would dispute that at the risk of sounding like a broken record.
That's because you're ideologically opposed to their policies. So even if they'd be highly effective in implementing their preferred policy you'd think them.incompetent.
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United States43987 Posts
On February 03 2018 11:56 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 11:39 KwarK wrote:
It's absurd to say flyover country would have no influence if it was weighted by votes. You might as well argue that an individual should get a special grant of an electoral college vote because otherwise they'd have no influence. If it was decided by vote count the voters there would have the exact same influence as anyone else. There are simply fewer of them. You don't fix the problem of a small arbitrary group containing fewer voters than a larger arbitrary group by giving them more votes. Kwark, you are an accounting so it should be hard to figure out how difficult it would be to amend the constitution to change the electoral college and how many states would need to vote to fuck themselves over.
Completely different issue. The fact that the status quo is hard to change does not mean the argument you made for it is logically sound.
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On February 03 2018 12:29 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 10:06 kollin wrote:On February 03 2018 06:05 RvB wrote:On February 02 2018 19:47 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 19:28 kollin wrote:On February 02 2018 19:05 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 08:55 iamthedave wrote:On January 26 2018 03:47 MyTHicaL wrote:On January 26 2018 02:50 Zaros wrote:
I think shes been sly about where she is on Brexit trying to play both sides, but with the botched reshuffle disaster after disaster and now a softening of the brexit stance some of the MPs are thinking it keeps getting worse we have to get rid of her. I don't think that she is that stupid. She knows that Brexit has no advantageous outcome so is pretending to up-play it to her own party/country, all the while singing a completely different tune to the EU behind closed doors. Thing is, they all know this. May isn't stupid by any means, and few people in the government actually are. Who wants to throw her under the bus just so they can get run over right afterwards? Whoever is in charge of this country through Brexit is screwed. That's near-100% why Cameron resigned; as a giant 'fuck you' to the dickwads in his own party who screwed up his big plan to kill UKIP. I mean, people are saying Michael Gove is one of the front runners to follow May. MICHAEL. GOVE. Mr 'Britain has had enough of experts'. I almost hope it happens. Fucker deserves the career execution. Except that wasn't his actual quote and he is basically the only person in Government actually doing anything. That's only a mark of the total incompetence of the Tories rather than a sign of any real proficiency as a politician. Let's not forget the growing education recruitment crisis started under his tenure. I agree the party is an incompetent mess at the moment but even in the Cameron years where it wasn't incompetent Gove was the person who got things done, Education is obviously controversial and he is not popular with teachers but he enacted massive change quickly and probably framed it in the wrong way, I think at Justice he learned from that and he had all the stakeholders on side before Theresa May booted him out, now again on the Environment he is reforming without alienating a large stakeholder. If you want things to change then he is the best politician to have running a department (or perhaps the country if May goes) at the moment. Wasn't May seen as a competent minister? There's a world of difference between being a minister and prime minister. Again I would dispute that at the risk of sounding like a broken record. That's because you're ideologically opposed to their policies. So even if they'd be highly effective in implementing their preferred policy you'd think them.incompetent.
Her policy was cut immigration down to the tens of thousands, she failed catastrophically.
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On February 04 2018 05:58 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 12:29 RvB wrote:On February 03 2018 10:06 kollin wrote:On February 03 2018 06:05 RvB wrote:On February 02 2018 19:47 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 19:28 kollin wrote:On February 02 2018 19:05 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 08:55 iamthedave wrote:On January 26 2018 03:47 MyTHicaL wrote:On January 26 2018 02:50 Zaros wrote:
I think shes been sly about where she is on Brexit trying to play both sides, but with the botched reshuffle disaster after disaster and now a softening of the brexit stance some of the MPs are thinking it keeps getting worse we have to get rid of her. I don't think that she is that stupid. She knows that Brexit has no advantageous outcome so is pretending to up-play it to her own party/country, all the while singing a completely different tune to the EU behind closed doors. Thing is, they all know this. May isn't stupid by any means, and few people in the government actually are. Who wants to throw her under the bus just so they can get run over right afterwards? Whoever is in charge of this country through Brexit is screwed. That's near-100% why Cameron resigned; as a giant 'fuck you' to the dickwads in his own party who screwed up his big plan to kill UKIP. I mean, people are saying Michael Gove is one of the front runners to follow May. MICHAEL. GOVE. Mr 'Britain has had enough of experts'. I almost hope it happens. Fucker deserves the career execution. Except that wasn't his actual quote and he is basically the only person in Government actually doing anything. That's only a mark of the total incompetence of the Tories rather than a sign of any real proficiency as a politician. Let's not forget the growing education recruitment crisis started under his tenure. I agree the party is an incompetent mess at the moment but even in the Cameron years where it wasn't incompetent Gove was the person who got things done, Education is obviously controversial and he is not popular with teachers but he enacted massive change quickly and probably framed it in the wrong way, I think at Justice he learned from that and he had all the stakeholders on side before Theresa May booted him out, now again on the Environment he is reforming without alienating a large stakeholder. If you want things to change then he is the best politician to have running a department (or perhaps the country if May goes) at the moment. Wasn't May seen as a competent minister? There's a world of difference between being a minister and prime minister. Again I would dispute that at the risk of sounding like a broken record. That's because you're ideologically opposed to their policies. So even if they'd be highly effective in implementing their preferred policy you'd think them.incompetent. Her policy was cut immigration down to the tens of thousands, she failed catastrophically.
I would say it was more an aim than Policy they didn't actually do anything policy wise to bring down immigration, as for her being competent I would say it was mostly the lack of any terrorist attacks during her watch and no big embarrassments, she really didn't do much at the home office.
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On February 04 2018 07:22 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2018 05:58 kollin wrote:On February 03 2018 12:29 RvB wrote:On February 03 2018 10:06 kollin wrote:On February 03 2018 06:05 RvB wrote:On February 02 2018 19:47 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 19:28 kollin wrote:On February 02 2018 19:05 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 08:55 iamthedave wrote:On January 26 2018 03:47 MyTHicaL wrote:
[quote]
I don't think that she is that stupid. She knows that Brexit has no advantageous outcome so is pretending to up-play it to her own party/country, all the while singing a completely different tune to the EU behind closed doors. Thing is, they all know this. May isn't stupid by any means, and few people in the government actually are. Who wants to throw her under the bus just so they can get run over right afterwards? Whoever is in charge of this country through Brexit is screwed. That's near-100% why Cameron resigned; as a giant 'fuck you' to the dickwads in his own party who screwed up his big plan to kill UKIP. I mean, people are saying Michael Gove is one of the front runners to follow May. MICHAEL. GOVE. Mr 'Britain has had enough of experts'. I almost hope it happens. Fucker deserves the career execution. Except that wasn't his actual quote and he is basically the only person in Government actually doing anything. That's only a mark of the total incompetence of the Tories rather than a sign of any real proficiency as a politician. Let's not forget the growing education recruitment crisis started under his tenure. I agree the party is an incompetent mess at the moment but even in the Cameron years where it wasn't incompetent Gove was the person who got things done, Education is obviously controversial and he is not popular with teachers but he enacted massive change quickly and probably framed it in the wrong way, I think at Justice he learned from that and he had all the stakeholders on side before Theresa May booted him out, now again on the Environment he is reforming without alienating a large stakeholder. If you want things to change then he is the best politician to have running a department (or perhaps the country if May goes) at the moment. Wasn't May seen as a competent minister? There's a world of difference between being a minister and prime minister. Again I would dispute that at the risk of sounding like a broken record. That's because you're ideologically opposed to their policies. So even if they'd be highly effective in implementing their preferred policy you'd think them.incompetent. Her policy was cut immigration down to the tens of thousands, she failed catastrophically. I would say it was more an aim than Policy they didn't actually do anything policy wise to bring down immigration, as for her being competent I would say it was mostly the lack of any terrorist attacks during her watch and no big embarrassments, she really didn't do much at the home office.
It was in both the 2010 and 2015 manifesto, that she was unable to do it because it was insane does not absolve her of responsibility for failure. All policies are aims, she just threw her weight behind an absurd one and accordingly failed to deliver it (I wonder what contemporary aim/policy that could apply to?)
EDIT: also worth noting that while there was a terrorist attack under her watch - the murder of Jo Cox. Any discussion over how much the anti-immigration propaganda from the Tories might have contributed to that murder by a far-right extremist is just speculation, but it can't be ignored just because he's not brown. EVEN THEN in the wake of the 2017 terrorist attacks a lot of current and former police officials identified the main source of strain on their ability to identify and prevent these attacks as being budget cuts to the police. May presided over these budget cuts. Lets not forget her literally being booed at by the police.
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On February 04 2018 05:58 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 12:29 RvB wrote:On February 03 2018 10:06 kollin wrote:On February 03 2018 06:05 RvB wrote:On February 02 2018 19:47 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 19:28 kollin wrote:On February 02 2018 19:05 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 08:55 iamthedave wrote:On January 26 2018 03:47 MyTHicaL wrote:On January 26 2018 02:50 Zaros wrote:
I think shes been sly about where she is on Brexit trying to play both sides, but with the botched reshuffle disaster after disaster and now a softening of the brexit stance some of the MPs are thinking it keeps getting worse we have to get rid of her. I don't think that she is that stupid. She knows that Brexit has no advantageous outcome so is pretending to up-play it to her own party/country, all the while singing a completely different tune to the EU behind closed doors. Thing is, they all know this. May isn't stupid by any means, and few people in the government actually are. Who wants to throw her under the bus just so they can get run over right afterwards? Whoever is in charge of this country through Brexit is screwed. That's near-100% why Cameron resigned; as a giant 'fuck you' to the dickwads in his own party who screwed up his big plan to kill UKIP. I mean, people are saying Michael Gove is one of the front runners to follow May. MICHAEL. GOVE. Mr 'Britain has had enough of experts'. I almost hope it happens. Fucker deserves the career execution. Except that wasn't his actual quote and he is basically the only person in Government actually doing anything. That's only a mark of the total incompetence of the Tories rather than a sign of any real proficiency as a politician. Let's not forget the growing education recruitment crisis started under his tenure. I agree the party is an incompetent mess at the moment but even in the Cameron years where it wasn't incompetent Gove was the person who got things done, Education is obviously controversial and he is not popular with teachers but he enacted massive change quickly and probably framed it in the wrong way, I think at Justice he learned from that and he had all the stakeholders on side before Theresa May booted him out, now again on the Environment he is reforming without alienating a large stakeholder. If you want things to change then he is the best politician to have running a department (or perhaps the country if May goes) at the moment. Wasn't May seen as a competent minister? There's a world of difference between being a minister and prime minister. Again I would dispute that at the risk of sounding like a broken record. That's because you're ideologically opposed to their policies. So even if they'd be highly effective in implementing their preferred policy you'd think them.incompetent. Her policy was cut immigration down to the tens of thousands, she failed catastrophically.
Do you think there's a conservative who is competent?
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On February 04 2018 09:17 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2018 05:58 kollin wrote:On February 03 2018 12:29 RvB wrote:On February 03 2018 10:06 kollin wrote:On February 03 2018 06:05 RvB wrote:On February 02 2018 19:47 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 19:28 kollin wrote:On February 02 2018 19:05 Zaros wrote:On February 02 2018 08:55 iamthedave wrote:On January 26 2018 03:47 MyTHicaL wrote:
[quote]
I don't think that she is that stupid. She knows that Brexit has no advantageous outcome so is pretending to up-play it to her own party/country, all the while singing a completely different tune to the EU behind closed doors. Thing is, they all know this. May isn't stupid by any means, and few people in the government actually are. Who wants to throw her under the bus just so they can get run over right afterwards? Whoever is in charge of this country through Brexit is screwed. That's near-100% why Cameron resigned; as a giant 'fuck you' to the dickwads in his own party who screwed up his big plan to kill UKIP. I mean, people are saying Michael Gove is one of the front runners to follow May. MICHAEL. GOVE. Mr 'Britain has had enough of experts'. I almost hope it happens. Fucker deserves the career execution. Except that wasn't his actual quote and he is basically the only person in Government actually doing anything. That's only a mark of the total incompetence of the Tories rather than a sign of any real proficiency as a politician. Let's not forget the growing education recruitment crisis started under his tenure. I agree the party is an incompetent mess at the moment but even in the Cameron years where it wasn't incompetent Gove was the person who got things done, Education is obviously controversial and he is not popular with teachers but he enacted massive change quickly and probably framed it in the wrong way, I think at Justice he learned from that and he had all the stakeholders on side before Theresa May booted him out, now again on the Environment he is reforming without alienating a large stakeholder. If you want things to change then he is the best politician to have running a department (or perhaps the country if May goes) at the moment. Wasn't May seen as a competent minister? There's a world of difference between being a minister and prime minister. Again I would dispute that at the risk of sounding like a broken record. That's because you're ideologically opposed to their policies. So even if they'd be highly effective in implementing their preferred policy you'd think them.incompetent. Her policy was cut immigration down to the tens of thousands, she failed catastrophically. Do you think there's a conservative who is competent?
Entirely irrelevant to my point, but I'll entertain the question anyway:
If we are going on the definition of 'more or less does what they said they set out to do' then Gove was competent, Matthew Hancock was fairly competent. Cameron failed on Europe, Osborne failed to eliminate the deficit and May failed to do anything. Currently there is a black hole of talent in the Tory leadership
If we are going by the definition of competent that is 'moves the country in the direction that is best for it' then I don't think there is a single Tory that is competent. Even those like Sajid Javid that are realising the abject pointlessness of austerity have been complicit in it for 7 years prior, and thus hold responsibility for it. The Conservatives' re-emerged insanity over Europe combined with insanity over how to deal with the financial crash disqualifies the entire party from qualifying as competent.
That being said, I also think our democratic institutions have something to do with the incompetency of our political leaders. The fact British democratic institutions are incapable of handling Brexit, incapable of producing anyone who can communicate this to people, and incapable of presenting actual answers to the questions that Brexit has raised is not just a Conservative problem. Doesn't make them remotely more competent though, not even relatively.
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EPT
