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On August 01 2016 02:15 maxor wrote: Well it will a wake-up call for the leave voters when they see just what England is going to be like when the right wing of the conservative party has a free hand.
Also;
There was a programme on radio 4 the other day where they asked a load of small business owners about there staff and every single one of them said that they had tried to hire local English staff but that foreign workers were better, worked harder and where infinitely more motivated and productive.
Its not racism that makes the working class dis-like foreign workers its the fact that foreign workers are better employees than them in almost every measurable way.
I cant believe that. Certainly there can be some individual instances of this being true, but I cant believe it is true across the board.
On August 01 2016 02:44 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I doubt that. How much superior must foreign staff be to overcome language barriers?
In most european countries english is taught in public schools.
Though it's certainly a reasonable possibility that they're not lying, I would wonder if maybe it's just the lower price that makes them better workers. I've seen both kinds of immigrant labor.
On August 01 2016 02:15 maxor wrote: Well it will a wake-up call for the leave voters when they see just what England is going to be like when the right wing of the conservative party has a free hand.
Also;
There was a programme on radio 4 the other day where they asked a load of small business owners about there staff and every single one of them said that they had tried to hire local English staff but that foreign workers were better, worked harder and where infinitely more motivated and productive.
Its not racism that makes the working class dis-like foreign workers its the fact that foreign workers are better employees than them in almost every measurable way.
I cant believe that. Certainly there can be some individual instances of this being true, but I cant believe it is true across the board.
On August 01 2016 02:15 maxor wrote: Well it will a wake-up call for the leave voters when they see just what England is going to be like when the right wing of the conservative party has a free hand.
Also;
There was a programme on radio 4 the other day where they asked a load of small business owners about there staff and every single one of them said that they had tried to hire local English staff but that foreign workers were better, worked harder and where infinitely more motivated and productive.
Its not racism that makes the working class dis-like foreign workers its the fact that foreign workers are better employees than them in almost every measurable way.
That's because they literally came over there from another nation to get paid more money than they would back in their home country. You think the people in their own nation are motivated and impressed with the wages in their own country?
They're not working harder or look more motivated because of nothing. They literally have less rights, and have to swallow their pride and ignore the flaws of their workplace and suck up to their boss. They would get fired like *that* because there's thousands of them wanting the same job.
The people who were born in that nation have to live there.
On August 01 2016 03:16 LegalLord wrote: Though it's certainly a reasonable possibility that they're not lying, I would wonder if maybe it's just the lower price that makes them better workers. I've seen both kinds of immigrant labor.
You've got EU economies that have been fucked by Brussels imposed Austerity like Italy and Greece and professionals/semi-professionals there with years of experience going to the UK because those economies are fucked.
Business loves it because there is far less need for training programs/apprenticeships for locals anymore.Saves them money both from cutting those programs and paying the workers less due to supply/demand (As i posted before real wages in UK down 10% since 2007, on par with Greece).
If you "know someone" you're probably still in with a shot but for everyone else you're in big trouble when it comes to getting that first job or getting a job in the field you just got your degree in but have limited real world experience.Add to that the companies that abuse internships and work for the dole programs -getting kids to work for nothing for a couple of months then getting a new kid in that does the same - and i'm glad i'm not still over there tbh.
On August 01 2016 03:16 LegalLord wrote: Though it's certainly a reasonable possibility that they're not lying, I would wonder if maybe it's just the lower price that makes them better workers. I've seen both kinds of immigrant labor.
You've got EU economies that have been fucked by Brussels imposed Austerity like Italy and Greece and professionals/semi-professionals there with years of experience going to the UK because those economies are fucked.
Business loves it because there is far less need for training programs/apprenticeships for locals anymore.Saves them money both from cutting those programs and paying the workers less due to supply/demand (As i posted before real wages in UK down 10% since 2007, on par with Greece).
If you "know someone" you're probably still in with a shot but for everyone else you're in big trouble when it comes to getting that first job or getting a job in the field you just got your degree in but have limited real world experience.Add to that the companies that abuse internships and work for the dole programs -getting kids to work for nothing for a couple of months then getting a new kid in that does the same - and i'm glad i'm not still over there tbh.
Yes, this website agrees with you so much... really?
On August 01 2016 03:16 LegalLord wrote: Though it's certainly a reasonable possibility that they're not lying, I would wonder if maybe it's just the lower price that makes them better workers. I've seen both kinds of immigrant labor.
You've got EU economies that have been fucked by Brussels imposed Austerity like Italy and Greece and professionals/semi-professionals there with years of experience going to the UK because those economies are fucked.
Business loves it because there is far less need for training programs/apprenticeships for locals anymore.Saves them money both from cutting those programs and paying the workers less due to supply/demand (As i posted before real wages in UK down 10% since 2007, on par with Greece).
If you "know someone" you're probably still in with a shot but for everyone else you're in big trouble when it comes to getting that first job or getting a job in the field you just got your degree in but have limited real world experience.Add to that the companies that abuse internships and work for the dole programs -getting kids to work for nothing for a couple of months then getting a new kid in that does the same - and i'm glad i'm not still over there tbh.
Yes, this website agrees with you so much... really?
It actually does, look at wage from 2000 to 2016 (which is to me too small of a period but still) and you can perfectly see that the global increase of wages after the crisis (the drop in 2008-2009) is lessen (the curve is flatter).
On August 01 2016 03:16 LegalLord wrote: Though it's certainly a reasonable possibility that they're not lying, I would wonder if maybe it's just the lower price that makes them better workers. I've seen both kinds of immigrant labor.
You've got EU economies that have been fucked by Brussels imposed Austerity like Italy and Greece and professionals/semi-professionals there with years of experience going to the UK because those economies are fucked.
Business loves it because there is far less need for training programs/apprenticeships for locals anymore.Saves them money both from cutting those programs and paying the workers less due to supply/demand (As i posted before real wages in UK down 10% since 2007, on par with Greece).
If you "know someone" you're probably still in with a shot but for everyone else you're in big trouble when it comes to getting that first job or getting a job in the field you just got your degree in but have limited real world experience.Add to that the companies that abuse internships and work for the dole programs -getting kids to work for nothing for a couple of months then getting a new kid in that does the same - and i'm glad i'm not still over there tbh.
Yes, this website agrees with you so much... really?
Why are you debating this? We are talking "Real" wages - IE wages adjusted for inflation. Here is the same article i posted a few pages back....
UK joins Greece at bottom of wage growth league TUC found that between 2007 and 2015 in the UK, real wages fell by 10.4%, the joint lowest in OECD countries
On August 02 2016 15:46 Shield wrote: I was looking at UK average weekly earning. It's about 420 GBP/week in 2010, while it's about 500 in 2016.
Yes wage increase, in nominal values, for various reasons (cost increase, to keep up with the inflation, due to automatic mecanism, etc.). When economist say "wage stagnation", it doesn't mean 0 %, in fact even competitive desinflation (like in Greece and elsewhere) rarely comes with nominal wage decrease. Usually, it's more about long term low increase of wages. Current wage increase in UK are pretty stable below 2 % according to this graph, it's not bad but not good either.
A more important comparaison would be productivity growth and wage increase, to see if UK workers are paid in accordance with their productivity. Problem is UK productivity is pretty stagnant too.
On August 01 2016 03:16 LegalLord wrote: Though it's certainly a reasonable possibility that they're not lying, I would wonder if maybe it's just the lower price that makes them better workers. I've seen both kinds of immigrant labor.
You've got EU economies that have been fucked by Brussels imposed Austerity like Italy and Greece and professionals/semi-professionals there with years of experience going to the UK because those economies are fucked.
Business loves it because there is far less need for training programs/apprenticeships for locals anymore.Saves them money both from cutting those programs and paying the workers less due to supply/demand (As i posted before real wages in UK down 10% since 2007, on par with Greece).
If you "know someone" you're probably still in with a shot but for everyone else you're in big trouble when it comes to getting that first job or getting a job in the field you just got your degree in but have limited real world experience.Add to that the companies that abuse internships and work for the dole programs -getting kids to work for nothing for a couple of months then getting a new kid in that does the same - and i'm glad i'm not still over there tbh.
I dont even know where to start with when i read this post. The way you put it, is like UK has been dominated with foreigner workers in the professional fields lol. I am sorry I really want to see what kind of reality that your post is based on. Foreigners as labour workers are the minority in any field, in professional fields they are so rare (slightly more in IT/academia field i guess). Seriously, I am so confused. I mean, if you are thinking about indian/middle easterners 'immigrants', many of them have UK passport/2nd or 3rd generation in UK, since the recession Theresa May made sure no more non-eu foreigners fresh grads allowed to stay working in UK without £30k annual paid (good luck with any entry level jobs start with that number).
Because you know, local students go to local unis and graduate and get jobs, you sound like majority of the locals here have no jobs because of foreigners lol. No Uni in UK has more foreigners than the locals in all of the 'mainstream' courses, aka business/finance/art etc.
Oh, you speak about apprenticeship and all that, can i take a wild guess here, any chance that when you were in UK, you graduated in the worst time ie the recession time? Everyone was f*cked in those years, everyone. Recent years I have been seeing tonnes of internships etc etc everywhere. And ya, internship/entry level jobs get shitty paid, thats true in every country in 2016 because high competition from huge amount of fresh grads duh, how can you link everything to foreigners/eu is beyond me.
Where I work we have a lot of people at the £30k+ level, because British people come from university, do the 3 year training contract to get a professional qualification, then leave to go elsewhere, so at the £30k+ manager level we import people from other countries (inside and outside the EU) to fill the gap.
Not so many entry level foreign people though, probably because they can get the same experience/etc in their home countries and then transfer over anyway once professionally qualified.
On August 01 2016 03:16 LegalLord wrote: Though it's certainly a reasonable possibility that they're not lying, I would wonder if maybe it's just the lower price that makes them better workers. I've seen both kinds of immigrant labor.
You've got EU economies that have been fucked by Brussels imposed Austerity like Italy and Greece and professionals/semi-professionals there with years of experience going to the UK because those economies are fucked.
Business loves it because there is far less need for training programs/apprenticeships for locals anymore.Saves them money both from cutting those programs and paying the workers less due to supply/demand (As i posted before real wages in UK down 10% since 2007, on par with Greece).
If you "know someone" you're probably still in with a shot but for everyone else you're in big trouble when it comes to getting that first job or getting a job in the field you just got your degree in but have limited real world experience.Add to that the companies that abuse internships and work for the dole programs -getting kids to work for nothing for a couple of months then getting a new kid in that does the same - and i'm glad i'm not still over there tbh.
I dont even know where to start with when i read this post. The way you put it, is like UK has been dominated with foreigner workers in the professional fields lol. I am sorry I really want to see what kind of reality that your post is based on. Foreigners as labour workers are the minority in any field, in professional fields they are so rare (slightly more in IT/academia field i guess). Seriously, I am so confused. I mean, if you are thinking about indian/middle easterners 'immigrants', many of them have UK passport/2nd or 3rd generation in UK, since the recession Theresa May made sure no more non-eu foreigners fresh grads allowed to stay working in UK without £30k annual paid (good luck with any entry level jobs start with that number).
Because you know, local students go to local unis and graduate and get jobs, you sound like majority of the locals here have no jobs because of foreigners lol. No Uni in UK has more foreigners than the locals in all of the 'mainstream' courses, aka business/finance/art etc.
Oh, you speak about apprenticeship and all that, can i take a wild guess here, any chance that when you were in UK, you graduated in the worst time ie the recession time? Everyone was f*cked in those years, everyone. Recent years I have been seeing tonnes of internships etc etc everywhere. And ya, internship/entry level jobs get shitty paid, thats true in every country in 2016 because high competition from huge amount of fresh grads duh, how can you link everything to foreigners/eu is beyond me.
The point is every country in Europe teaches English in schools.Germany offered fast track citizenship to UK folks who voted remain but it's useless considering how few can speak German and most cannot be bothered to learn it.People from economies that are fucked, like Greece and Italy, will go to UK.That is a huge part of the reason why last year net migration was second highest on record.Including births-deaths the UK population rose 500,000.
And you're right, wages are low for new grads.Not good when London house prices have doubled since 2009.The only ones benefiting from low wages are employers especially large corporations.Live 10 to a flat and send as much as you can back to Poland/Hungary/Latvia for a couple of years you can make it work.Trying to raise a regular "nuclear" family forget about it nowdays, too expensive and too low wages.Real wages down 10.4% since 2007, can't argue with the facts dude.Supply/demand playing a huge part in that collapse in wages.
You haven't even left before this poll is relevant. Such poll would be relevant about 5-10 years after the UK leaves. That's when you conclude if it was good or not.
On August 06 2016 06:09 Shield wrote: You haven't even left before this poll is relevant. Such poll would be relevant about 5-10 years after the UK leaves. That's when you conclude if it was good or not.
I'm not. You just lack basic intelligence to realise how insignificant this poll is before the UK exits and/or triggers Article 50. The video above is just entertainment, but I'm sure Mr Humour can figure it out.
EPT![[image loading]](http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/united-kingdom-wage-growth.png?s=unitedkinwaggro&v=201607261913n&d1=19160101&d2=20161231)
