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You are comparing that to your global espinoage? That is like comparing a 5year old to mike typson.
THe only difference is that america is doing it on a much bigger scale, and our government is fucking retarded regarding the interest of the own country. They throw out money in buckets, do you really think they have the intelligence to profit from this kind of things?
And yes the problem is they got caught, so better dont get caught and now you should suffer. Or at least next time you talk about the axis of evil you better shut up (the usa not you). Because it starts pissing off people. I always liked america even there was a lot of reason to criticize them but right now it only pisses me off.
And also it sounds like not the usa is the bad person but the stupid spy, that doesnt make sense.
The criticize russia and china for letting the guy pass and say "well our relations to china etc. are damaged after that incident." Well sounds a bit fucked up that a country lets a guy pass and then the usa steps up with a warning. LOL
That is like if someone steals your car and then he says "well i broke my fingernail when i tried to shortfuse it, you better fix that."
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On June 30 2013 20:19 Elegy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 18:54 Sokrates wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-dataminingIt is so interesting that my country has the same "priority" than china, saudiarabia and iran. The americans are taking part in industrial espionage and other Surveillance of germany and other countries and nobody gives a fuck. If any other country in the world would have such activities running the public outcry would be enormous but it seems like they can treat my country and others as a vassal state of the US and A. Well done. It just makes me sick how much selfrighteous the americans act on a global scale and nobody is punishing them for it. They talk about the axis of evil and impose restrictions on other countrys. What a bunch of fucking hypocrits, i m highly disappointed by the USA. I was always under the impression that the USA had at least some decency. You may call snowden a traitor, but then again the USA was traiting the whole world. So if they punish him, they should be punished aswell. That would just be logical. I love this post. Who are these "Americans" that act so self righteous? Who is this "THEY" that must be punished? Making blanket statements like "the AMERICANS SHOULD BE PUNISHED" is silly and immature. Mama Jane down the street didn't do shit. The NSA janitor didn't do shit. Using language like that plus nonsense like vassal state is just revealing a ridiculous preconceived bias on your part more than anything. And just because Germany is the same color as China and iran means what exactly? Yeah. Nothing. Are these colors representative of the likelihood of the state committing an attack against the US? What does it actually mean? Are you privy to the information that determined the color Germany is on this map? Wasn't it In Germany when two americans got murdered brutally in an airport? Hmm.
That is a stupid post.
It is absolutely evident that Sokrates was not singleing out some poor janitor and demanded to "hang him high". Its your country violating my rights, and as such the general body of citizens in the U.S. is responsible. Of course it is then a valid point to blame this general body of U.S. citizens. Personally, I would like to see some really harsh reactions from my government, but I doubt that will happen.
I don't even get what you mean with the second paragraph. First, you are asking whether it is a bad thing to have the same classification as China, implying that it may not imply much after all. Then you justify Germany's status based on some random murder? I really don't see any sense in that, so please explain.
Oh wait, is it because the American programs are just...bigger? More expansive? Is that the metric now? Do you think Germany doesn't have intelligence programs and espionage efforts abroad as well, that are likely just as "bad" as the American version? Maybe not as large and expansive, but certainly present. Everyone does. Only difference is the American government got caught.
This German program is well known and has been discussed intensively. At the end, one could argue that it has been democratically legitimized, because it is the German government spying on German citizens. The US and the UK program are not subject to the control of German institutions. Also I don't get the point of the argument. Just because somebody else is also doing something wrong means that it is ok to do so?
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Yes, but the point here is that you, me, and everyone else is incapable of determining at what point does espionage become "too" much. What if the intelligence gathering was half as large? Still too big? See how silly this is? You have to base it on the legality of the actions, nothing else.
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You probably have no idea how strict a need for warrant is here in Europe. I am kinda exaggerating but here police needs a judge signed warrant if they even want to speak to you and if they break this rule there is a media manhunt, no mercy. I am one hundred percent okay with police having access to every single part of internet conversations and stuff if they have a judge signed warrant, but otherwise I am strictly against it.
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On June 30 2013 20:47 edlover420 wrote:You probably have no idea how strict a need for warrant is here in Europe. I am kinda exaggerating but here police needs a judge signed warrant if they even want to speak to you and if they break this rule there is a media manhunt, no mercy.
I don't know what part of Europe you live in, but what you said is incredibly false for the part I live in.
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On June 30 2013 20:46 C[h]ili wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:19 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 18:54 Sokrates wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-dataminingIt is so interesting that my country has the same "priority" than china, saudiarabia and iran. The americans are taking part in industrial espionage and other Surveillance of germany and other countries and nobody gives a fuck. If any other country in the world would have such activities running the public outcry would be enormous but it seems like they can treat my country and others as a vassal state of the US and A. Well done. It just makes me sick how much selfrighteous the americans act on a global scale and nobody is punishing them for it. They talk about the axis of evil and impose restrictions on other countrys. What a bunch of fucking hypocrits, i m highly disappointed by the USA. I was always under the impression that the USA had at least some decency. You may call snowden a traitor, but then again the USA was traiting the whole world. So if they punish him, they should be punished aswell. That would just be logical. I love this post. Who are these "Americans" that act so self righteous? Who is this "THEY" that must be punished? Making blanket statements like "the AMERICANS SHOULD BE PUNISHED" is silly and immature. Mama Jane down the street didn't do shit. The NSA janitor didn't do shit. Using language like that plus nonsense like vassal state is just revealing a ridiculous preconceived bias on your part more than anything. And just because Germany is the same color as China and iran means what exactly? Yeah. Nothing. Are these colors representative of the likelihood of the state committing an attack against the US? What does it actually mean? Are you privy to the information that determined the color Germany is on this map? Wasn't it In Germany when two americans got murdered brutally in an airport? Hmm. That is a stupid post. It is absolutely evident that Sokrates was not singleing out some poor janitor and demanded to "hang him high". Its your country violating my rights, and as such the general body of citizens in the U.S. is responsible. Of course it is then a valid point to blame this general body of U.S. citizens. Personally, I would like to see some really harsh reactions from my government, but I doubt that will happen. I don't even get what you mean with the second paragraph. First, you are asking whether it is a bad thing to have the same classification, implying that it may not imply much after all. Then you justify Germany's status based on some random murder? I really don't see any sense in that, so please explain.
General body of US citizens are responsible for violating German rights.
General body.
Body.
A body of citizens is comprised of individuals. So the janitor is partially responsible. Weird.
The map shows the amount of data gathered from various countries and assigns them colors based on the amount of data. It stands to reason that certain countries are going to have more data pulled than others, for a variety of reasons. China and Iran, okay, obvious. Germany? Well, it's the foremost power in continental Europe. It's strong and wealthy and important. Americans have died there in the past in what some would call "terrorist" attacks. Doesn't seem terribly illogical to pull information from Germany, doesn't it?
Point is we know NOTHING about the reasons behind why Germany in particular is looked at more than others, and anything we say is biased conjecture based on bullshit like "rawr Americans should be PUNISHED for espionage" because...well...because well they did it MORE than everyone else
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Well you got caught with your pants down. Some goes for a thief, if he doesnt get caught nobody will can punish him, you got caught.
And then it sounds so funny to me that the USA as criticizing russia and china for letting a spy pass. Oh the irony. Why cant your government not shut up? Dont you think that people get angry when they read this kind of stuff? If i was china or russia i would paint a big dick on their white house.
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On June 30 2013 20:51 Elegy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:46 C[h]ili wrote:On June 30 2013 20:19 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 18:54 Sokrates wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-dataminingIt is so interesting that my country has the same "priority" than china, saudiarabia and iran. The americans are taking part in industrial espionage and other Surveillance of germany and other countries and nobody gives a fuck. If any other country in the world would have such activities running the public outcry would be enormous but it seems like they can treat my country and others as a vassal state of the US and A. Well done. It just makes me sick how much selfrighteous the americans act on a global scale and nobody is punishing them for it. They talk about the axis of evil and impose restrictions on other countrys. What a bunch of fucking hypocrits, i m highly disappointed by the USA. I was always under the impression that the USA had at least some decency. You may call snowden a traitor, but then again the USA was traiting the whole world. So if they punish him, they should be punished aswell. That would just be logical. I love this post. Who are these "Americans" that act so self righteous? Who is this "THEY" that must be punished? Making blanket statements like "the AMERICANS SHOULD BE PUNISHED" is silly and immature. Mama Jane down the street didn't do shit. The NSA janitor didn't do shit. Using language like that plus nonsense like vassal state is just revealing a ridiculous preconceived bias on your part more than anything. And just because Germany is the same color as China and iran means what exactly? Yeah. Nothing. Are these colors representative of the likelihood of the state committing an attack against the US? What does it actually mean? Are you privy to the information that determined the color Germany is on this map? Wasn't it In Germany when two americans got murdered brutally in an airport? Hmm. That is a stupid post. It is absolutely evident that Sokrates was not singleing out some poor janitor and demanded to "hang him high". Its your country violating my rights, and as such the general body of citizens in the U.S. is responsible. Of course it is then a valid point to blame this general body of U.S. citizens. Personally, I would like to see some really harsh reactions from my government, but I doubt that will happen. I don't even get what you mean with the second paragraph. First, you are asking whether it is a bad thing to have the same classification, implying that it may not imply much after all. Then you justify Germany's status based on some random murder? I really don't see any sense in that, so please explain. General body of US citizens are responsible for violating German rights. General body. Body. A body of citizens is comprised of individuals. So the janitor is partially responsible. Weird. The map shows the amount of data gathered from various countries and assigns them colors based on the amount of data. It stands to reason that certain countries are going to have more data pulled than others, for a variety of reasons. China and Iran, okay, obvious. Germany? Well, it's the foremost power in continental Europe. It's strong and wealthy and important. Americans have died there in the past in what some would call "terrorist" attacks. Doesn't seem terribly illogical to pull information from Germany, doesn't it? Point is we know NOTHING about the reasons behind why Germany in particular is looked at more than others, and anything we say is biased conjecture based on bullshit like "rawr Americans should be PUNISHED for espionage" because...well...because well they did it MORE than everyone else
oh according to the newspaper we know the reason.
Aus einer vertraulichen Klassifizierung geht hervor, dass die NSA die Bundesrepublik zwar als Partner, zugleich aber auch als Angriffsziel betrachtet. Demnach gehört Deutschland zu den sogenannten Partnern dritter Klasse.
Which roughly translates to: The NSA thinks Germany is a partner and a target for attacks at the same time. Germany is classified as a 3rd class partner.
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/nsa-ueberwacht-500-millionen-verbindungen-in-deutschland-a-908517.html
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On June 30 2013 20:51 Elegy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:46 C[h]ili wrote:On June 30 2013 20:19 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 18:54 Sokrates wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-dataminingIt is so interesting that my country has the same "priority" than china, saudiarabia and iran. The americans are taking part in industrial espionage and other Surveillance of germany and other countries and nobody gives a fuck. If any other country in the world would have such activities running the public outcry would be enormous but it seems like they can treat my country and others as a vassal state of the US and A. Well done. It just makes me sick how much selfrighteous the americans act on a global scale and nobody is punishing them for it. They talk about the axis of evil and impose restrictions on other countrys. What a bunch of fucking hypocrits, i m highly disappointed by the USA. I was always under the impression that the USA had at least some decency. You may call snowden a traitor, but then again the USA was traiting the whole world. So if they punish him, they should be punished aswell. That would just be logical. I love this post. Who are these "Americans" that act so self righteous? Who is this "THEY" that must be punished? Making blanket statements like "the AMERICANS SHOULD BE PUNISHED" is silly and immature. Mama Jane down the street didn't do shit. The NSA janitor didn't do shit. Using language like that plus nonsense like vassal state is just revealing a ridiculous preconceived bias on your part more than anything. And just because Germany is the same color as China and iran means what exactly? Yeah. Nothing. Are these colors representative of the likelihood of the state committing an attack against the US? What does it actually mean? Are you privy to the information that determined the color Germany is on this map? Wasn't it In Germany when two americans got murdered brutally in an airport? Hmm. That is a stupid post. It is absolutely evident that Sokrates was not singleing out some poor janitor and demanded to "hang him high". Its your country violating my rights, and as such the general body of citizens in the U.S. is responsible. Of course it is then a valid point to blame this general body of U.S. citizens. Personally, I would like to see some really harsh reactions from my government, but I doubt that will happen. I don't even get what you mean with the second paragraph. First, you are asking whether it is a bad thing to have the same classification, implying that it may not imply much after all. Then you justify Germany's status based on some random murder? I really don't see any sense in that, so please explain. General body of US citizens are responsible for violating German rights. General body. Body. A body of citizens is comprised of individuals. So the janitor is partially responsible. Weird. The map shows the amount of data gathered from various countries and assigns them colors based on the amount of data. It stands to reason that certain countries are going to have more data pulled than others, for a variety of reasons. China and Iran, okay, obvious. Germany? Well, it's the foremost power in continental Europe. It's strong and wealthy and important. Americans have died there in the past in what some would call "terrorist" attacks. Doesn't seem terribly illogical to pull information from Germany, doesn't it? Point is we know NOTHING about the reasons behind why Germany in particular is looked at more than others, and anything we say is biased conjecture based on bullshit like "rawr Americans should be PUNISHED for espionage" because...well...because well they did it MORE than everyone else
add to that that it's apperently, like you said, amount of data gathered and not per capita. So obviously a country like Germany will look more into the reddish (or yellow-ish) simply due to population.
Add to that that the US still has a shitton of soldiers over here.
I don't get why people are suprised about this at all.
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On June 30 2013 20:55 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:51 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 20:46 C[h]ili wrote:On June 30 2013 20:19 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 18:54 Sokrates wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-dataminingIt is so interesting that my country has the same "priority" than china, saudiarabia and iran. The americans are taking part in industrial espionage and other Surveillance of germany and other countries and nobody gives a fuck. If any other country in the world would have such activities running the public outcry would be enormous but it seems like they can treat my country and others as a vassal state of the US and A. Well done. It just makes me sick how much selfrighteous the americans act on a global scale and nobody is punishing them for it. They talk about the axis of evil and impose restrictions on other countrys. What a bunch of fucking hypocrits, i m highly disappointed by the USA. I was always under the impression that the USA had at least some decency. You may call snowden a traitor, but then again the USA was traiting the whole world. So if they punish him, they should be punished aswell. That would just be logical. I love this post. Who are these "Americans" that act so self righteous? Who is this "THEY" that must be punished? Making blanket statements like "the AMERICANS SHOULD BE PUNISHED" is silly and immature. Mama Jane down the street didn't do shit. The NSA janitor didn't do shit. Using language like that plus nonsense like vassal state is just revealing a ridiculous preconceived bias on your part more than anything. And just because Germany is the same color as China and iran means what exactly? Yeah. Nothing. Are these colors representative of the likelihood of the state committing an attack against the US? What does it actually mean? Are you privy to the information that determined the color Germany is on this map? Wasn't it In Germany when two americans got murdered brutally in an airport? Hmm. That is a stupid post. It is absolutely evident that Sokrates was not singleing out some poor janitor and demanded to "hang him high". Its your country violating my rights, and as such the general body of citizens in the U.S. is responsible. Of course it is then a valid point to blame this general body of U.S. citizens. Personally, I would like to see some really harsh reactions from my government, but I doubt that will happen. I don't even get what you mean with the second paragraph. First, you are asking whether it is a bad thing to have the same classification, implying that it may not imply much after all. Then you justify Germany's status based on some random murder? I really don't see any sense in that, so please explain. General body of US citizens are responsible for violating German rights. General body. Body. A body of citizens is comprised of individuals. So the janitor is partially responsible. Weird. The map shows the amount of data gathered from various countries and assigns them colors based on the amount of data. It stands to reason that certain countries are going to have more data pulled than others, for a variety of reasons. China and Iran, okay, obvious. Germany? Well, it's the foremost power in continental Europe. It's strong and wealthy and important. Americans have died there in the past in what some would call "terrorist" attacks. Doesn't seem terribly illogical to pull information from Germany, doesn't it? Point is we know NOTHING about the reasons behind why Germany in particular is looked at more than others, and anything we say is biased conjecture based on bullshit like "rawr Americans should be PUNISHED for espionage" because...well...because well they did it MORE than everyone else add to that that it's apperently, like you said, amount of data gathered and not per capita. So obviously a country like Germany will look more into the reddish (or yellow-ish) simply due to population. Add to that that the US still has a shitton of soldiers over here. I don't get why people are suprised about this at all.
Thats why germany is two categories more reddish than france, makes sense. Oh wait it doesnt.
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On June 30 2013 20:51 Elegy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:46 C[h]ili wrote:On June 30 2013 20:19 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 18:54 Sokrates wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-dataminingIt is so interesting that my country has the same "priority" than china, saudiarabia and iran. The americans are taking part in industrial espionage and other Surveillance of germany and other countries and nobody gives a fuck. If any other country in the world would have such activities running the public outcry would be enormous but it seems like they can treat my country and others as a vassal state of the US and A. Well done. It just makes me sick how much selfrighteous the americans act on a global scale and nobody is punishing them for it. They talk about the axis of evil and impose restrictions on other countrys. What a bunch of fucking hypocrits, i m highly disappointed by the USA. I was always under the impression that the USA had at least some decency. You may call snowden a traitor, but then again the USA was traiting the whole world. So if they punish him, they should be punished aswell. That would just be logical. I love this post. Who are these "Americans" that act so self righteous? Who is this "THEY" that must be punished? Making blanket statements like "the AMERICANS SHOULD BE PUNISHED" is silly and immature. Mama Jane down the street didn't do shit. The NSA janitor didn't do shit. Using language like that plus nonsense like vassal state is just revealing a ridiculous preconceived bias on your part more than anything. And just because Germany is the same color as China and iran means what exactly? Yeah. Nothing. Are these colors representative of the likelihood of the state committing an attack against the US? What does it actually mean? Are you privy to the information that determined the color Germany is on this map? Wasn't it In Germany when two americans got murdered brutally in an airport? Hmm. That is a stupid post. It is absolutely evident that Sokrates was not singleing out some poor janitor and demanded to "hang him high". Its your country violating my rights, and as such the general body of citizens in the U.S. is responsible. Of course it is then a valid point to blame this general body of U.S. citizens. Personally, I would like to see some really harsh reactions from my government, but I doubt that will happen. I don't even get what you mean with the second paragraph. First, you are asking whether it is a bad thing to have the same classification, implying that it may not imply much after all. Then you justify Germany's status based on some random murder? I really don't see any sense in that, so please explain. General body of US citizens are responsible for violating German rights. General body. Body. A body of citizens is comprised of individuals. So the janitor is partially responsible. Weird. The map shows the amount of data gathered from various countries and assigns them colors based on the amount of data. It stands to reason that certain countries are going to have more data pulled than others, for a variety of reasons. China and Iran, okay, obvious. Germany? Well, it's the foremost power in continental Europe. It's strong and wealthy and important. Americans have died there in the past in what some would call "terrorist" attacks. Doesn't seem terribly illogical to pull information from Germany, doesn't it? Point is we know NOTHING about the reasons behind why Germany in particular is looked at more than others, and anything we say is biased conjecture based on bullshit like "rawr Americans should be PUNISHED for espionage" because...well...because well they did it MORE than everyone else
Whatever, just accept that the recent events have given the rest of the world another reason to dislike your country.
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On June 30 2013 20:58 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:55 Toadesstern wrote:On June 30 2013 20:51 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 20:46 C[h]ili wrote:On June 30 2013 20:19 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 18:54 Sokrates wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-dataminingIt is so interesting that my country has the same "priority" than china, saudiarabia and iran. The americans are taking part in industrial espionage and other Surveillance of germany and other countries and nobody gives a fuck. If any other country in the world would have such activities running the public outcry would be enormous but it seems like they can treat my country and others as a vassal state of the US and A. Well done. It just makes me sick how much selfrighteous the americans act on a global scale and nobody is punishing them for it. They talk about the axis of evil and impose restrictions on other countrys. What a bunch of fucking hypocrits, i m highly disappointed by the USA. I was always under the impression that the USA had at least some decency. You may call snowden a traitor, but then again the USA was traiting the whole world. So if they punish him, they should be punished aswell. That would just be logical. I love this post. Who are these "Americans" that act so self righteous? Who is this "THEY" that must be punished? Making blanket statements like "the AMERICANS SHOULD BE PUNISHED" is silly and immature. Mama Jane down the street didn't do shit. The NSA janitor didn't do shit. Using language like that plus nonsense like vassal state is just revealing a ridiculous preconceived bias on your part more than anything. And just because Germany is the same color as China and iran means what exactly? Yeah. Nothing. Are these colors representative of the likelihood of the state committing an attack against the US? What does it actually mean? Are you privy to the information that determined the color Germany is on this map? Wasn't it In Germany when two americans got murdered brutally in an airport? Hmm. That is a stupid post. It is absolutely evident that Sokrates was not singleing out some poor janitor and demanded to "hang him high". Its your country violating my rights, and as such the general body of citizens in the U.S. is responsible. Of course it is then a valid point to blame this general body of U.S. citizens. Personally, I would like to see some really harsh reactions from my government, but I doubt that will happen. I don't even get what you mean with the second paragraph. First, you are asking whether it is a bad thing to have the same classification, implying that it may not imply much after all. Then you justify Germany's status based on some random murder? I really don't see any sense in that, so please explain. General body of US citizens are responsible for violating German rights. General body. Body. A body of citizens is comprised of individuals. So the janitor is partially responsible. Weird. The map shows the amount of data gathered from various countries and assigns them colors based on the amount of data. It stands to reason that certain countries are going to have more data pulled than others, for a variety of reasons. China and Iran, okay, obvious. Germany? Well, it's the foremost power in continental Europe. It's strong and wealthy and important. Americans have died there in the past in what some would call "terrorist" attacks. Doesn't seem terribly illogical to pull information from Germany, doesn't it? Point is we know NOTHING about the reasons behind why Germany in particular is looked at more than others, and anything we say is biased conjecture based on bullshit like "rawr Americans should be PUNISHED for espionage" because...well...because well they did it MORE than everyone else add to that that it's apperently, like you said, amount of data gathered and not per capita. So obviously a country like Germany will look more into the reddish (or yellow-ish) simply due to population. Add to that that the US still has a shitton of soldiers over here. I don't get why people are suprised about this at all. Thats why germany is two categories more reddish than france, makes sense. Oh wait it doesnt.
I said I'm not suprised about it, that's all I said. (Obviously) No comment about wether it makes sense or wether I like it was made, that's just pointless anyways.
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On June 30 2013 21:12 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:58 Sokrates wrote:On June 30 2013 20:55 Toadesstern wrote:On June 30 2013 20:51 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 20:46 C[h]ili wrote:On June 30 2013 20:19 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 18:54 Sokrates wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-dataminingIt is so interesting that my country has the same "priority" than china, saudiarabia and iran. The americans are taking part in industrial espionage and other Surveillance of germany and other countries and nobody gives a fuck. If any other country in the world would have such activities running the public outcry would be enormous but it seems like they can treat my country and others as a vassal state of the US and A. Well done. It just makes me sick how much selfrighteous the americans act on a global scale and nobody is punishing them for it. They talk about the axis of evil and impose restrictions on other countrys. What a bunch of fucking hypocrits, i m highly disappointed by the USA. I was always under the impression that the USA had at least some decency. You may call snowden a traitor, but then again the USA was traiting the whole world. So if they punish him, they should be punished aswell. That would just be logical. I love this post. Who are these "Americans" that act so self righteous? Who is this "THEY" that must be punished? Making blanket statements like "the AMERICANS SHOULD BE PUNISHED" is silly and immature. Mama Jane down the street didn't do shit. The NSA janitor didn't do shit. Using language like that plus nonsense like vassal state is just revealing a ridiculous preconceived bias on your part more than anything. And just because Germany is the same color as China and iran means what exactly? Yeah. Nothing. Are these colors representative of the likelihood of the state committing an attack against the US? What does it actually mean? Are you privy to the information that determined the color Germany is on this map? Wasn't it In Germany when two americans got murdered brutally in an airport? Hmm. That is a stupid post. It is absolutely evident that Sokrates was not singleing out some poor janitor and demanded to "hang him high". Its your country violating my rights, and as such the general body of citizens in the U.S. is responsible. Of course it is then a valid point to blame this general body of U.S. citizens. Personally, I would like to see some really harsh reactions from my government, but I doubt that will happen. I don't even get what you mean with the second paragraph. First, you are asking whether it is a bad thing to have the same classification, implying that it may not imply much after all. Then you justify Germany's status based on some random murder? I really don't see any sense in that, so please explain. General body of US citizens are responsible for violating German rights. General body. Body. A body of citizens is comprised of individuals. So the janitor is partially responsible. Weird. The map shows the amount of data gathered from various countries and assigns them colors based on the amount of data. It stands to reason that certain countries are going to have more data pulled than others, for a variety of reasons. China and Iran, okay, obvious. Germany? Well, it's the foremost power in continental Europe. It's strong and wealthy and important. Americans have died there in the past in what some would call "terrorist" attacks. Doesn't seem terribly illogical to pull information from Germany, doesn't it? Point is we know NOTHING about the reasons behind why Germany in particular is looked at more than others, and anything we say is biased conjecture based on bullshit like "rawr Americans should be PUNISHED for espionage" because...well...because well they did it MORE than everyone else add to that that it's apperently, like you said, amount of data gathered and not per capita. So obviously a country like Germany will look more into the reddish (or yellow-ish) simply due to population. Add to that that the US still has a shitton of soldiers over here. I don't get why people are suprised about this at all. Thats why germany is two categories more reddish than france, makes sense. Oh wait it doesnt. I said I'm not suprised about it, that's all I said. (Obviously) No comment about wether it makes sense or wether I like it was made, that's just pointless anyways.
so edgy
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I guess this whole thing about Snowden turns in the wrong direction.
First of all my opinion on internet observation is that is it justified and should be done. The people who thing, that the internet is a place where everyone can do whatever he wants are stupid. The internet observation is damaging our human rights? Don´t make me laugh. The internet is none other place than any country where a lot of people come together with a lot of different intents. The internet provides a strong potential for crime because of it´s anonymity. Internet mobbing, cost traps, child pornography just to talk about a few ones. In my opinion there should also be laws and punishment for people who commit crimes in the internet. I don´t have a problem when everything I do in the internet is recorded, I especially would suggest using your identity card to connect to the internet should be a must. It´s not like my neighbor or friends can see my activities in the internet and as long as you don´t have any evil intend, there shouldn´t be a problem with identifying yourself.
The big thing about this whole story is probably, because the governments did that without the notice of the citizens. That leads me to another point. I don´t thing Swoden should be arrested because he published state secrets because in my opinion there shouldn´t be any state secrets to begin with. The government is always talking about how to guard citizens from terrorism and danger, but who is guarding the citizens from their own governments? The actions of the governments are not as transparent as they should be in a democratic country. It should be easily accessible for every citizen what his country is using it´s money for and what is planned by the country and there should be an organization who´s task it would be to control the government and make regular and irregular inspections.
In my opinion only if these 2 points are accomplished, it is possible to create a more safe world, where nobody should be afraid of terrorism or their own government anymore. But I think that´s just a utopia from me, because both the government and the citizens seem to be too stupid to know what needs to be done and everyone gets fired up when their "rights" are in danger. I´m not talking about that human rights are a bad thing and i strongly approve it, but if especially these human rights danger the human rights of other people then they are not justified at all.
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Did you somehow miss that the US isn't just monitoring their citizens? Your whole blabla about internet crime and stuff is completely pointless, since they don't have any legal ground here anyway. Even if you look at childporn and they catch a glimpse of it, they can do jackshit. And it better stays that way, i don't need a country in which people get 8 years for trolling in LoL to monitor my actions. I don't need the US to do anything for me, in fact, if they'd stop all their global actions right now, the world would be a better place, with not even half the wars. How about that?
It doesn't create a safe world to be a glass-citizen, what it creates is a police-state on a whole new level. You can't stop terrorism, you just make it harder. What you describe is not utopia but dystopia.
Edit: oh, and i do think Snowden should be arrested on US soil, because he didn't only warn US citizens, but made the EU aware of the bs too. That said, i'd love to see him seeking asylum in germany. I wonder if the US would still act like they did against ecuador.
Edit2: and just to vent a bit: i was for Obama. To have this shitstorm right after he basically lied into german citizens faces like two weeks ago, you'd need some balls for that.
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On June 30 2013 21:18 Sianos wrote:
I guess this whole thing about Snowden turns in the wrong direction.
First of all my opinion on internet observation is that is it justified and should be done. The people who thing, that the internet is a place where everyone can do whatever he wants are stupid. The internet observation is damaging our human rights? Don´t make me laugh. The internet is none other place than any country where a lot of people come together with a lot of different intents. The internet provides a strong potential for crime because of it´s anonymity. Internet mobbing, cost traps, child pornography just to talk about a few ones. In my opinion there should also be laws and punishment for people who commit crimes in the internet. I don´t have a problem when everything I do in the internet is recorded, I especially would suggest using your identity card to connect to the internet should be a must. It´s not like my neighbor or friends can see my activities in the internet and as long as you don´t have any evil intend, there shouldn´t be a problem with identifying yourself.
The big thing about this whole story is probably, because the governments did that without the notice of the citizens. That leads me to another point. I don´t thing Swoden should be arrested because he published state secrets because in my opinion there shouldn´t be any state secrets to begin with. The government is always talking about how to guard citizens from terrorism and danger, but who is guarding the citizens from their own governments? The actions of the governments are not as transparent as they should be in a democratic country. It should be easily accessible for every citizen what his country is using it´s money for and what is planned by the country and there should be an organization who´s task it would be to control the government and make regular and irregular inspections.
In my opinion only if these 2 points are accomplished, it is possible to create a more safe world, where nobody should be afraid of terrorism or their own government anymore. But I think that´s just a utopia from me, because both the government and the citizens seem to be too stupid to know what needs to be done and everyone gets fired up when their "rights" are in danger. I´m not talking about that human rights are a bad thing and i strongly approve it, but if especially these human rights danger the human rights of other people then they are not justified at all.
Most people DO NOT agree on being observated. Just because you want it doesnt make it more valid. That is why most people are furious (no matter where you live) if observate them. And you dont have a right to observate people without any law and their disagreement, and i hope it always stays the same. Because then the internet would be a fucking sad place.
And then again, did they apologise to anyone? Did i miss that?
Or did they just criticize russia and china for not catching THEIR spy? I mean that is fucking hilarious. It is like they did nothing wrong and instead criticize other states for not catching their goddamn spy. I dont even have words for this.
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On June 30 2013 21:13 Nachtwind wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:12 Toadesstern wrote:On June 30 2013 20:58 Sokrates wrote:On June 30 2013 20:55 Toadesstern wrote:On June 30 2013 20:51 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 20:46 C[h]ili wrote:On June 30 2013 20:19 Elegy wrote:On June 30 2013 18:54 Sokrates wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-dataminingIt is so interesting that my country has the same "priority" than china, saudiarabia and iran. The americans are taking part in industrial espionage and other Surveillance of germany and other countries and nobody gives a fuck. If any other country in the world would have such activities running the public outcry would be enormous but it seems like they can treat my country and others as a vassal state of the US and A. Well done. It just makes me sick how much selfrighteous the americans act on a global scale and nobody is punishing them for it. They talk about the axis of evil and impose restrictions on other countrys. What a bunch of fucking hypocrits, i m highly disappointed by the USA. I was always under the impression that the USA had at least some decency. You may call snowden a traitor, but then again the USA was traiting the whole world. So if they punish him, they should be punished aswell. That would just be logical. I love this post. Who are these "Americans" that act so self righteous? Who is this "THEY" that must be punished? Making blanket statements like "the AMERICANS SHOULD BE PUNISHED" is silly and immature. Mama Jane down the street didn't do shit. The NSA janitor didn't do shit. Using language like that plus nonsense like vassal state is just revealing a ridiculous preconceived bias on your part more than anything. And just because Germany is the same color as China and iran means what exactly? Yeah. Nothing. Are these colors representative of the likelihood of the state committing an attack against the US? What does it actually mean? Are you privy to the information that determined the color Germany is on this map? Wasn't it In Germany when two americans got murdered brutally in an airport? Hmm. That is a stupid post. It is absolutely evident that Sokrates was not singleing out some poor janitor and demanded to "hang him high". Its your country violating my rights, and as such the general body of citizens in the U.S. is responsible. Of course it is then a valid point to blame this general body of U.S. citizens. Personally, I would like to see some really harsh reactions from my government, but I doubt that will happen. I don't even get what you mean with the second paragraph. First, you are asking whether it is a bad thing to have the same classification, implying that it may not imply much after all. Then you justify Germany's status based on some random murder? I really don't see any sense in that, so please explain. General body of US citizens are responsible for violating German rights. General body. Body. A body of citizens is comprised of individuals. So the janitor is partially responsible. Weird. The map shows the amount of data gathered from various countries and assigns them colors based on the amount of data. It stands to reason that certain countries are going to have more data pulled than others, for a variety of reasons. China and Iran, okay, obvious. Germany? Well, it's the foremost power in continental Europe. It's strong and wealthy and important. Americans have died there in the past in what some would call "terrorist" attacks. Doesn't seem terribly illogical to pull information from Germany, doesn't it? Point is we know NOTHING about the reasons behind why Germany in particular is looked at more than others, and anything we say is biased conjecture based on bullshit like "rawr Americans should be PUNISHED for espionage" because...well...because well they did it MORE than everyone else add to that that it's apperently, like you said, amount of data gathered and not per capita. So obviously a country like Germany will look more into the reddish (or yellow-ish) simply due to population. Add to that that the US still has a shitton of soldiers over here. I don't get why people are suprised about this at all. Thats why germany is two categories more reddish than france, makes sense. Oh wait it doesnt. I said I'm not suprised about it, that's all I said. (Obviously) No comment about wether it makes sense or wether I like it was made, that's just pointless anyways. so edgy
too much mafia made me this way 
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On June 30 2013 21:22 m4inbrain wrote:
Did you somehow miss that the US isn't just monitoring their citizens? Your whole blabla about internet crime and stuff is completely pointless, since they don't have any legal ground here anyway. Even if you look at childporn and they catch a glimpse of it, they can do jackshit.
That´s why i suggested to identify yourself in the internet. That would give the government more methods to catch those guys, who do crimes in the internet. I´m not especially talking about the US here, but about internet observation in general and the governments in any country.
The problem about the police state could be avoided by having multiple organisations controlling each other, which heads are directly voted by the citizens. The more control and inside you grant the citizens the more unlikely it is that one organisation get´s too powerful.
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On June 30 2013 21:33 Sianos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:22 m4inbrain wrote:
Did you somehow miss that the US isn't just monitoring their citizens? Your whole blabla about internet crime and stuff is completely pointless, since they don't have any legal ground here anyway. Even if you look at childporn and they catch a glimpse of it, they can do jackshit. That´s why i suggested to identify yourself in the internet. That would give the government more methods to catch those guys, who do crimes in the internet. I´m not especially talking about the US here, but about internet observation in general and the governments in any country. The problem about the police state could be avoided by having multiple organisations controlling each other, which heads are directly voted by the citizens. The more control and inside you grant the citizens the more unlikely it is that one organisation get´s too powerful.
You do know that the NSA is not about crime prevention right?
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EPT
