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On April 19 2013 06:21 Drunken.Jedi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 02:45 spinesheath wrote:
If I read that correctly, Bitcoins require an exponentially increasing amount of storage space and processing power as the number of users and transactions increases. Not exactly something I would consider a long term solution... Why not? Sure, at some point all the bit coins will be mined and then there will be something like 21 million BTC in circulation, but that won't make the currency any less useful. Bitcoins can at least in theory be subdivided an arbitrary amount of times (I think currently 8 decimal digits is the maximum), so even in the unlikely event that at some point in the distant future the world economy is all run on bitcoin, the low number of bitcoins will not be an issue.
Every Bitcoin user needs to store the block chain on his hard drive which increases with every single transaction. Every transaction needs to be flooded to every single user. At some point the amount of data and energy consumed to do a single transaction might cost more than the transaction was worth. That doesn't seem sustainable.
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The last bitcoin will be mined in 2140. By that time the few kb it requires to store the blockchain and make the transaction will be even more trivial than it is now.
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Growth rate of the block chain is linear, while storage and computation is exponential growth.
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I am a bitcoinminer. I do not expect to make a lot of profit, but I like modding around it to get a higher hash rate. Who knows it might make me some money in the end  .
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On April 19 2013 22:17 Uni1987 wrote:I am a bitcoinminer. I do not expect to make a lot of profit, but I like modding around it to get a higher hash rate. Who knows it might make me some money in the end .
Check out Litecoin. It's great for small time gpu miners. Bitcoin mining is now in the hands of FPGA and ASICs.
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Bitcoins won't be used widely as a currency until the price is stable. It's an interesting idea but don't expect it to be used by people for legitimate purposes any time soon.
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Czech Republic4646 Posts
On April 19 2013 00:42 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 00:34 Marradron wrote:
Bitcoins is a bit like a pyramid scheme. The ones that benefit most by it becoming popular are the early adopters. They made a shitload of bitcoins in the time it was easy to mine them. They are the ones that benefit from a high demand/price of bitcoins. Although the general idea of the coin is good, with the way it was set I will not use it. 100% agree. However, this is only because Bitcoin is a limited release currency and people are not used to having to subdivide their currency as opposed to simply inflating it in order to match growing production and consumption. The truth is, Bitcoin is just as reliable (arguably more so because it IS limited release) than most of the major currencies utilized today. The only thing which makes the major currencies more desirable is subjective dispersion and use. Institutionally and intrinsically, there is nothing which makes either the USD or the EURO superior forms of currency. Just more people use them. Edit: Essentially the only thing keeping me from jumping on with Bitcoin is human interaction's as they currently stand. Seeing as currency issuers (Central Banks) are, and have been, engaged in currency wars for the last few decades, throwing more competitors into the ring probably won't go over so well with most of these institutions. I expect one of two things to happen (though I'm leaning towards the first): 1. They unite to manipulate the markets to the best of their ability to maintain their financial "Phenotypical" hegemony and crush Bitcoin if it appears to be catching on. (To not do this sets a bad precedent and undermines their integrity and decades of convincing people that only central banks can be trusted to print currency). Or... 2. One of the Central Banking entities decides to "Go Nuclear" and prop up Bitcoin and use it as a Cats Paw against the other Banks. I find this highly unlikely as it sets a non-profitable precedent for the Global Banking Community. This option would be the equivalent of actual Nuclear war during the Cold War without any considerations for MAD.
Central Banking entities in most countries are public institutions that are governed by specific rules. If anyone has been engaged in currency wars it was the states/governments by pressuring the central bank, not the central banks themselves. As for them suppressing the use of bitcoin, I doubt that. Since when using bitcoin (if legal in particular circumstance) you are not absolved from paying taxes, you still need to exchange them into the official currency at one point or another. So bitcoin is more like another financial instrument that hides the official money behind some formula or somewhat like bartering.
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On April 19 2013 14:38 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2013 06:21 Drunken.Jedi wrote:On April 19 2013 02:45 spinesheath wrote:
If I read that correctly, Bitcoins require an exponentially increasing amount of storage space and processing power as the number of users and transactions increases. Not exactly something I would consider a long term solution... Why not? Sure, at some point all the bit coins will be mined and then there will be something like 21 million BTC in circulation, but that won't make the currency any less useful. Bitcoins can at least in theory be subdivided an arbitrary amount of times (I think currently 8 decimal digits is the maximum), so even in the unlikely event that at some point in the distant future the world economy is all run on bitcoin, the low number of bitcoins will not be an issue. Every Bitcoin user needs to store the block chain on his hard drive which increases with every single transaction. Every transaction needs to be flooded to every single user. At some point the amount of data and energy consumed to do a single transaction might cost more than the transaction was worth. That doesn't seem sustainable.
Oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood your original post. What you say is true for the full client, but most users don't need to run the full client. There are a number of lightweight clients that don't require you to store the block chain on your hard drive and isn't sent all the transactions. An example would be Electrum.
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Just to give you an idea by March 30, 2013, “the combined value of all Bitcoins in circulation surpassed $1 billion”. The exchange rate of each individual bitcoin rose above $92. Furthermore, the total number of Bitcoins reached 11 million - a huge leap from the record value of $32 recorded a month back from the date mentioned above. Yet, critics may argue that the rise of Bitcoins has its own share of problems. According to the guardian.co.uk, “The value of Bitcoins plummeted more than $160 yesterday (April 10th , 2013) after hitting a new high of $266. It continued to fall on other exchanges Thursday, trading below $100 in many. Two months ago the digital currency was valued at $20.”
The extreme swings of Bitcoins pricing make it a risky affair along with various technical problems and regular hacking attempts. However, these issues and the recent crash will not mark the end of the digital currency as predicted by Gavin Andresen, Chief Scientist of Bitcoin Foundation. Bitcoin is now accepted by Pizza for Coins, Mega, Reddit, Wikipedia and Wordpress even though sudden ups and downs have been the topic of debate for the Bitcoin supporters and detractors.
The rise of the online currency from $10 at the beginning of the year to a huge $260 on April 10th, has been linked to many things ranging from the popularity of bitcoins amongst the general public, the economic troubles in Cyprus to the acceptance of bitcoins as a mode of pament by various online retailers.
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The wiki gives a whole list of sources, but as a community I personally know (more than others, at any rate), what sites and advice would you recommend to someone who is looking to buy/trade bitcoin for the first time?
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On April 28 2013 07:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
The wiki gives a whole list of sources, but as a community I personally know (more than others, at any rate), what sites and advice would you recommend to someone who is looking to buy/trade bitcoin for the first time?
The most popular exchange is Mt. Gox, but I recommend having accounts on multiple exchanges. I also have accounts on BTC-E, CampBX and VirCurEx.
Each site will have instructions on how to buy coins. I haven't tried this myself, but from what I hear, BitInstant is the easiest way to buy bitcoins with cash and get them onto your exchange account.You could also just mine the coins yourself, but unless you already have some decent mining hardware, it might take a while before you get even 1 bitcoin. I went the mining route, and even though I bought in at $80, I only ended up making like $4 in profit when bitcoin hit $135 cause I had only a fraction of a bitcoin, lol.
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On April 19 2013 22:50 ControlMonkey wrote:
Bitcoins won't be used widely as a currency until the price is stable. It's an interesting idea but don't expect it to be used by people for legitimate purposes any time soon.
I bet it won't ever be stable. Something established like gold also has crazy swings in price. Gold's price tripled in the last ten years and will crash again eventually. I don't think you would expect Bitcoin to be any better, but it could still be useful enough, just like gold is.
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On April 28 2013 07:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
The wiki gives a whole list of sources, but as a community I personally know (more than others, at any rate), what sites and advice would you recommend to someone who is looking to buy/trade bitcoin for the first time?
Just withdraw your money straight from your bank account and set it on fire instead because you'll be doing the same thing either way
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/S1BoAyl.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fxVaSGv.gif)
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I've been doing some mining.
First, with an FPGA the school gave me. It's a really crappy board, so it gets 1.2 megahashes/second, which is literally nothing. Considering you need to do about 4 billion hashes to accept a share, and a share (depending on the pool) is a tiny fraction of a bitcoin, you'll be getting almost nothing.
So then I remembered I had a GPU and am getting up to 66 MH/s. :D
Still not going to generate a whole lot, but it's something.
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On May 02 2013 21:32 wozzot wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 07:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
The wiki gives a whole list of sources, but as a community I personally know (more than others, at any rate), what sites and advice would you recommend to someone who is looking to buy/trade bitcoin for the first time? Just withdraw your money straight from your bank account and set it on fire instead because you'll be doing the same thing either way
This made me chuckle. My general opinion is that once you start hearing about "the latest investment opportunity" in the tabloid press or on morning TV, then you know the bubble is about to burst.
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On May 05 2013 10:29 ControlMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 21:32 wozzot wrote:On April 28 2013 07:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
The wiki gives a whole list of sources, but as a community I personally know (more than others, at any rate), what sites and advice would you recommend to someone who is looking to buy/trade bitcoin for the first time? Just withdraw your money straight from your bank account and set it on fire instead because you'll be doing the same thing either way This made me chuckle. My general opinion is that once you start hearing about "the latest investment opportunity" in the tabloid press or on morning TV, then you know the bubble is about to burst.
There has been a lot of intermittent media attention, with the last spurt being because of the burst. There's an economic experiment/theory that predicts what's going on with bitcoins, and this isn't the last we'll hear about them.
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Seems like most people are buying it as a speculative investment than as a more liquid currency: the number of businesses accepting such thing certainly hasn't grown in scale to Bitcoin's supposed value. Honestly, this thing is a speculative investment at best and an extremely risky gamble at worst. You're buying a thing that's unstable and barely accepted anywhere with a stable widely accepted currency such as the dollar or the euro. Only reason why most people would do that is the belief and faith that it'll be something like virtual gold.
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Seems like most people are buying it as a speculative investment than as a more liquid currency: the number of businesses accepting such thing certainly hasn't grown in scale to Bitcoin's supposed value. Honestly, this thing is a speculative investment at best and an extremely risky gamble at worst. You're buying a thing that's unstable and barely accepted anywhere with a stable widely accepted currency such as the dollar or the euro. Only reason why most people would do that is the belief and faith that it'll be something like virtual gold.
Almost every feature you describe applies to gold. A very small number of businesses take gold directly as currency (albeit much higher than bitcoin) and the production value of gold per ounce is ~$300-400, yet the value it's trading at is ~$1400 an ounce
The only reason gold demands such a high value is because people believe it does.
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Gold is also something that you can physically hold in your hand though.
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United States5162 Posts
And has some utility outside being valued as currency.
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EPT
