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Just to clarify, am I reading this correctly that the coroner stated that she lied on her stomach and suffocated because... she couldn't breathe through her mouth or nose?
Yes
Not even heroin addicts or people taking any kind of heavy medication sleep on their nose and mouth. I have seen people fall unconscious onto their stomach but the head always turned sideways. If I was in your position I would most likely try to find a doctor who can state that dieing because "you were sleeping on your nose".
this is what i'm trying to find out.
Simply because I remember the other story, is there any relation between those cases? How was that man related to your mother? Was he stalking her, in love with her, anything that can be seen as a motive? Who did he talk to on the phone?
the phone was my mothers, a 17sec message was left but was deleted. burner phones cannot have there database examined for some reason
What was the coroners explanation for the blood and her wounds?
inconclusive
Edit: Was her nose broken?
no
Edit 2: Which prescription drugs exactly? Were they ones she took regularly and/or was it the normal dosage or not? his prescription drugs, did not belong to her
Edit 3: Proving that there was "no case like this" is almost impossible and even IF you find such a case it is irrelevant to this case. Try and find a forensic or another coroner that can argue that - especially under those drugs - she can't physically make the effort to turn her head into a position that makes her suffocate. Furthermore, even IF she can assume that position that she wasn't overweight enough to make this happen and/or argue the physical impossibility of keeping your head that way - unless force is applied
We are looking into this option as well
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On February 23 2013 21:05 iMAniaC wrote:
My condolences.
In Norway, it's sometimes very effective to go to the tabloid media with cases such as these. The tabloids love any story that can be spun as a "personal tragedy" story and they often write about them. Many of those gain a considerable amount of attention and result in proceedings being reopened after they were originally shut. If you were in Norway, our tabloids would have a field day with "the girl whose family's business was burnt down, mother killed and case neglected".
However, Norway's a small country with only 5 million inhabitants and I, personally, hate the fact using the media as a tool in such a way can be so effective (although I am, of course, pleased that cases get resolved). I could easily imagine that "circumventing" the legal system by using the tabloids might be frowned upon by the public in any other country, or simply be utterly ineffective in a country larger than Norway. I would suggest that you consult with other Australians, as to how they view any such action before you might decide to do it. You seem somewhat desperate (although I certainly understand why!) to get the case underway, so you may have lost all objectivity as to which actions are productive or not. Just because there was an option (this one) in a thread, doesn't mean it's a good option, so listen to your fellow Aussies if they tell you that this is definitely not the way to do things in Australia.
Moreover, it may be a huge burden to be a "public figure" if you do decide to contact the media. People are usually very rude on the internet and you may see lots of comments that are unsympathetic to you or even hostile. You should consider if that is something you're able to handle.
I'm very sorry if this post comes across as blunt or cynical and I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way. I simply want to be clear on the pros and cons and that results in a somewhat blunt language. Also, this is not an encouragement to use the media, but I simply wanted you to have all the options available to you and this option was not mentioned yet. Of course, starting with all the options, means you need to weed out the bad ones and this may just be one of the bad ones. However, we don't know that for sure until some other Australians have weighed in.
I sincerely hope you get this sorted out!
that is an option i am willing to explore. Thank-you
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Do not take this as a professional medical opinion. However:
I searched through multiple peer reviewed medical journals and a number of interdisciplinary journals:
- British Medical Journal
- PubMed Central
- InterNurse
- ScienceDirect
- Nature
- Internurse
I also had a look at the Sci/Eng journals just in case anything turned up in them.
There is no reference and found no indication of this being a known phenomenon. I also have a further (non-official) medical opinion which I will quote for you - the source is a working emergency surgeon with 8 years experience:
- okay firstly why exactly do you want to know, i can tailor the answer to make more sense
- Essentially, is it possible for someone who has taken sleeping pills prior to going to sleep to suffocate on their own pillow without the use of external force
Purely by lying on their front
No vomiting, no external blockages. Just a pillow, a woman and sleeping pills.
- yes it is possible
- What circumstances would it require?
12:41
- obesity and possibly hypersensitivity to whatever pills she took
in addition you can add cardiovascular abnormalities
however it is unlikely because most people would wake up under such situations
and sleeping pills facilitate regular sleep,
so it shouldn't really cause this
So unless your mum meets any of those conditions then you're probably on the right track. Please get a second official medical opinion but in both of our opinions, this is physically unlikely without these preconditions.
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On February 23 2013 21:05 iMAniaC wrote:
My condolences.
In Norway, it's sometimes very effective to go to the tabloid media with cases such as these. The tabloids love any story that can be spun as a "personal tragedy" story and they often write about them. Many of those gain a considerable amount of attention and result in proceedings being reopened after they were originally shut. If you were in Norway, our tabloids would have a field day with "the girl whose family's business was burnt down, mother killed and case neglected".
However, Norway's a small country with only 5 million inhabitants and I, personally, hate the fact using the media as a tool in such a way can be so effective (although I am, of course, pleased that cases get resolved). I could easily imagine that "circumventing" the legal system by using the tabloids might be frowned upon by the public in any other country, or simply be utterly ineffective in a country larger than Norway. I would suggest that you consult with other Australians, as to how they view any such action before you might decide to do it. You seem somewhat desperate (although I certainly understand why!) to get the case underway, so you may have lost all objectivity as to which actions are productive or not. Just because there was an option (this one) in a thread, doesn't mean it's a good option, so listen to your fellow Aussies if they tell you that this is definitely not the way to do things in Australia.
Moreover, it may be a huge burden to be a "public figure" if you do decide to contact the media. People are usually very rude on the internet and you may see lots of comments that are unsympathetic to you or even hostile. You should consider if that is something you're able to handle.
I'm very sorry if this post comes across as blunt or cynical and I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way. I simply want to be clear on the pros and cons and that results in a somewhat blunt language. Also, this is not an encouragement to use the media, but I simply wanted you to have all the options available to you and this option was not mentioned yet. Of course, starting with all the options, means you need to weed out the bad ones and this may just be one of the bad ones. However, we don't know that for sure until some other Australians have weighed in.
I sincerely hope you get this sorted out!
Australians are pretty dumb. And our tabloid tv programs are atrocious. I wouldn't rule it out working here at all.
Edit: Having said that, while a lot of terrible stories get reported on these shows, whether they end up having any significant affect is totally debatable. In fact the more I think about it, I could only see this having a positive affect if it was an individual having a problem or complaint with a business or company. Barring a terrible scandal (which the serious side of journalism would cover anyway) I can't see any government authority bowing to pressure from our tabloid media in something like this.
Edit 2: I hope your family gets justice. Losing a parent is a horrible thing to go through, these circumstances would make it heart-breaking.
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I've updated my post with information that is relevant. To reiterate - there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that this is a common phenomenon outside of obesity and hypersensitivity, with the risk factor of being a smoker.
Please push forward with your enquiries. This was almost certainly not a natural death.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
I can only offer you my deepest condolences. I really hope you find justice for your mother.
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That's a terrible loss and the outcome is a punch in the face.
The only thing I don't understand is how the coroner put natural death cause when your mother had been drugged.
It should be easy to ask her doctor if she ever got that medication prescribed and find out the way it was administered. If she never got that medication prescribed or took it in an unconventional way then the natural cause hypothesis can already be dismissed. Not to mention the injuries.
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Ugh, so many bad things happen to you. I have your stream on favorites and have always enjoyed watching you every now and then. I really hope this guy gets brought to justice. I get so sick of seeing these type of things go unpunished when it's obvious that the death wasn't natural. Stay strong Beeduck...
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On February 23 2013 21:35 Subversive wrote:
Australians are pretty dumb. And our tabloid tv programs are atrocious. I wouldn't rule it out working here at all.
Edit: Having said that, while a lot of terrible stories get reported on these shows, whether they end up having any significant affect is totally debatable. In fact the more I think about it, I could only see this having a positive affect if it was an individual having a problem or complaint with a business or company. Barring a terrible scandal (which the serious side of journalism would cover anyway) I can't see any government authority bowing to pressure from our tabloid media in something like this.
Sadly I also doubt our media would put pressure on a case like this, people care less about people and more about scandal. A Current Affair crew harassing him would sure make his life pretty miserable thou.
I'm sorry for your loss and hope you find justice.
I wish I knew of something that could help you out.
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Judging by the evidence u pointed out it's clearly not likely that she died of natural causes.
Obviously the coroner made a false conclusion, if what you say is true ( and I doubt u are lying ).
Is this man, who you believe to be the killer, tied into politics, or influential in some way ( money or whatever )?
Because if he is, it's quite possible he used his ties in this case. We all know how this works unfortunately.
If that's not the case, I would try to go for a second opinion if it's possible.
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Most heartfelt condolences to you and yours. I hope you get the professional advice and help you need to find justice.
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My deepest condolences.
Have you posted on reddit already?
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As already said before, healthy people do not self asphyxiate without some external factors. Commonest being severe alcohol intoxication, neurological impairment, severe obesity, external force/restraint. Various Pubmed articles describe severely intoxicated individuals with comatose-ish blood alcohol levels. The sort of level that impairs neurologcal function to a degree than you cannot protect your own airway.
Sudden adult death syndrome does not necessarilty leave any obvious evidence behind apart from abnormal ECGs (Braguda's syndrome). It can be tested for genetically, and affects young blokes from Laos and Thailand. Various congential cardiomyopathies are generally seen on post mortem as structual defects.
My understanding of what you have written is that the coroners report of "Death by asphyxiation" does not make it natural or un-natural. A basic tox screen should also have been done for opiates, benzos which as far as I know are detectable post mortem, if sufficiently high, could rule in an accidental death, but you can argue does not exclude murder given other circumstancial evidence.
I don't fully understand the situation i.e. you don't state that a verdict of accidental death has been issued.
Edit: Summary is that you have a good argument for an un-natural death as there is no clear evidence that your mother was compromised enough to die from accidental positional asphyxiation and there is no family history of Sudden Adult Death Syndrome / Bragudas.
This assumes
1) no tox screen done or insufficiently high levels of alcohol/opiate/benzos
2) findings of a normal myocardium
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My condolences, I lost my father at a young age and while no, it wasn't murder, the affect was probably as heart wrenching and unexpected.
You'd make her proud to see to what lengths you'd go for justice as you make, at least speaking for myself and what I think, the entire TL community proud.
If I had the money, if I was rich, I would send along such a sum for an investigation without hesitation.
Good luck.
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i wish u the best of luck, hope she may rest easy
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Damn, sorry for your loss, I hope your will have justice and peace one day.
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Wtf. I am so sorry to hear this. My condolences. 
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EPT
