|
Edit:
Thank-you to everyone for all the information and support.
Mods, feel free to dump this thread in blogs, and thank-you for allowing this to stay open it did help a lot.
Because we we stressed for time (given brief a few weeks before inquest), and denied the case to be adjured so we could get legal representation (not enough time for a lawyer to review also they were already booked) Self representation was also denied because it was conflicting as we were also witnesses. not all information was given to us and what i heard during the inquest removed all doubt from my mind "his video statement on her twisted neck" anyway
people here that i have been in contact with, made it possible to fight the crown and the judge agreed that the death was unnatural and not a suicide. however sadly, he wasnt even made to take the stand as he has just "vanished" and the case was ruled "open"
there is not much more legally with this case that we can now pursue.
But i just wanted to say thank-you, links to the medical journals, documentation etc. made it very hard for the crown to ignore us and completely dismiss the obvious circumstances.
sorry for my grammar etc, it was difficult to write this update
Jessica
...............
There is a man (Not my dad) that killed my mother, he will most likely now get away with it because of the method he used and lack of funding for investigation.
I have two days to do my own research, to rebuttal the coroners findings.
I am reaching out in every avenue possible, i hope you can understand that, and not flush this in the blogs until the inquest begins.
I chose to ask for help here (also sending inquires to doctors and have done a lot of google and searching through past inquest cases)
because i know that this website forum gets a lot of views from all parts of the world.
For those that don't know me, in the past i have run small female tournaments, casted with my sister ipl4 with tasteless & artosis, player interviews, set artwork for blizzard events, song parody video graphics, made sc song parodys as well as fan art:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=170235
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163578
and livi is now GM. so we hope you do see us as part of the community.
The Situation:
My Mother was found with prescription drugs that would cause you to become drowsy. (autopsy findings)
Bruising on the back of head and arm.
cut lip, torn skin on chin and black bruised nose and lips.
circle blood stain on the sofa/couch arm.
death by suffocation, by neck or blocked passage of air to the face.
phone records puts the man in the room, for close to 2 days. time of death not possible, but likely during the early night the day before anyone was contacted.
after her death he stole her car and emptied her bank accounts and was found laughing and drinking with his friends at the pub.
scum of a person, found out he has previous avo, due to assault of his ex wife and weeing on the bed of his son and baby son in cot.
My Questions that i need help with:
Is there anyone, i mean anyone in the world that knows of a case similar?
In theory, yes, sleeping on your stomach can cause suffocation, but has there been any confirmed cases of this in "ADULTS" my mother was 44. ?
how much noise would you make from this type of self suffocation as the corner claims?
if it indeed was like "baby bobbing" sids
i mean just sleeping face down on your stomach and self suffocation. No chocking of your tongue, vomit, fumes or no "overlay" pressure from another person or any obstructing objects.
its important that it is an adult death, as infants are recorded with this death because there neck is too weak.
I believe that my mother was drugged, and smothered by pressing her face "hard" into the couch arm by pressure on back of head and arm. I believe that the struggle is evident by her face abrasions and force was used rather than a peaceful passing evident by the condensed blood pattern.
however i am fighting the logic and concept on "sads" sudden adult death, however it is arrythmic death syndrome, sudden heart failure, but nothing was wrong with her heart and i can find no cases of someone previously dying by suffocation in this way that is an Adult.
Is she the first ADULT person in the WORLD to suffocate herself without physical material entering her mouth by sleeping on her stomach?
When she was younger, the image we used on her funeral cards.
![[image loading]](http://thecheekyduck.com/mum/mum.png)
happier times
our family togeather
![[image loading]](http://thecheekyduck.com/mum/family.png)
Thank-you to anyone from the bottom of my heart if you are able to help.
Any information, links or resources is greatly appreciated.
mods: please allow 2 days, as you never know the depth of a knowledge pool until you ask.
Thank-you
Jessica & Family
*Edit: MOD
Please
there is a chance, that someone knows someone that knows if this has happened to them.
I am not asking for a fix, or money.
I am asking if anyone has information about this type of death
so i can present these possibilities to the crown.
I am not experienced enough or have enough time to find where this type of information is.
Edit: Sorry i am not asking for funding.
there is a lack of interest in the case. it has been investigated, what i am doing is reviewing the brief.
Each murder gets funding to research, depending on how important it is - the more money is given and more detectives/teams investigate. In our case, We did fight hard to get an investigation as it was originally ruled a suicide.
Currently we are going through an inquest, but findings are more possible of SADS (by suffocation not by heart)
instead of smothering, which is murder.
In Australia, if evidence can tilt more towards, not prove, but tilt, towards smothering we can send the case to DPP and we can finally have our day in court.
Edit:
Currently he cannot be charged as it needs to be first approved that there is sufficient case that a murder took place.
Edit:
they did know each other yes.
he was pulling a disability con
she was his career
he had her pin number, he was found guilty, but only fined.
.....
I just finished reading the brief again with a tooth comb with my sister, most of the summery from the crown had wrong dates and incorrect information, the report to the coroner was mostly incorrect as if they only skimmed through the brief.
UPDATE:
4.30pm
the ambulance workers found her on her back on the floor,
but lividity was on the right side of her body and inner left leg.
(autopsy: only right bum cheek and only left hand has a bruise)
lividity was on the left side of her face!
blood was on the arm on the left side,
testimony that lividty was set
midnight
Forensic attended the scene (the person has had this title for 12 months, only 1 person)
most of what they did was take photos
what they did find that lividity was on her back and could not be fixed, could be blanced.
front tooth pressed into bottom lip.
so for a natural death?
so when sleeping on her right side she twisted her head, she suffocated face down but at some point her face was moved/twisted more further into the couch? i don't believe you can naturally fall asleep in that position without assistance.
It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body.
With this information they cannot give me a time of death smaller that a 12 hour window?
I believe the reason my mother has not been investigated more than basic "new" possibly training staff and young crown investigators is that she was very poor. And the person in question is a low life. If my family were not demanding every step of the way, this would already be over and most likely ruled as a suicide (we were once told that it was, but we demanded a further investigation and that possibility is now taken off the table, but when we buried her we didn't know, just in case i asked the priest to try and give her extra forgiveness if she did kill herself). We live in a world on who is worth your time and who is not, but i think she is worth digging to the bottom for.
|
United States2629 Posts
Oh my, well... I don't know what I can do, but I give you my deepest condolences.
That family picture really broke me. ;__;
|
I really have no idea, but I would continue to try and publicize the case, maybe get in contact with people who've had similar situations and keep trying with the police, maybe get in touch with their cold cases division. I wish you well, your mother was a beautiful woman.
|
I'm very sorry for your loss, and I hope you find justice.
EDIT: If you haven't pursued getting a lawyer yet, then you should definitely do this.
|
What's the motive? Who the hell was this guy? Why was he around your mother while she was in an incapacitated state?
|
Sorry for your loss OP, wish I could help.
On February 23 2013 16:54 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'm very sorry for your loss, and I hope you find justice.
In order for us to be of help, could you provide more detailed information or even documents regarding this case (if they're non-private). It's really hard to gauge much from a description. The man who is suspected, was it ruled that he stole her car and emptied her bank accounts, or is this an inference?
I don't know anything about law, but would sharing documents online breach protocol, like tainting evidence or something? Hopefully there are lawyers on here who can advise.
|
Oh my god... I really dont know how adults can naturally suffocate without vomit or tongue. How drugged was she? Like did the autopsy reveal that she over dosed? Or was the suffocation the sole cause of death?
Given the bank accounts / car you mentioned its probably cold blooded murder  I really hope they put this asshole behind bars.
|
I'm so sorry. This is terrible. Do you have a good lawyer? I mean the best lawyer you can possibly get? You need to get one and tell him or her everything you know.
|
Woah that's pretty crazy, I would suggest posting this on reddit too.
On February 23 2013 17:00 GreenFaction wrote:
I'm so sorry. This is terrible. Do you have a good lawyer? I mean the best lawyer you can possibly get? You need to get one and tell him or her everything you know.
This is probably the best idea so far.
|
On February 23 2013 17:00 GreenFaction wrote:
I'm so sorry. This is terrible. Do you have a good lawyer? I mean the best lawyer you can possibly get? You need to get one and tell him or her everything you know.
I forgot to mention this, but this is legit. You should definitely talk to a lawyer straightaway.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
There is nothing that the SC community can do to help prove or disprove this case. You need to go talk to a good lawyer as soon as you can. I understand your frustration at the situation, but this site is the wrong place to be looking for answers.
I hope that you're able to find justice, and I'm very sorry for the loss of your mother and the added pain that these events are putting you through.
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On February 23 2013 17:10 Plexa wrote:
There is nothing that the SC community can do to help prove or disprove this case. You need to go talk to a good lawyer as soon as you can.
She mentioned lack of funding, maybe the SC2 community can help there? If this is legit, this is no begging thread.
|
Foremost, I offer my deepest condolences.
Secondly, be more specific on to what extent of funding is available for the investigation - this is in fact of paramount importance. I will assume the absolute worst case scenario in that you will receive absolutely no more help. In this instance, it is more efficient and beneficial to look at this from a different perspective. If you truly believe that the man has murdered your mother, than there is little to no point in looking for counter-examples or previous cases of SAD involving an adult woman without an object causing suffocation.
Third, it would be helpful to learn of where the event took place - simply because assuming this happened in Australia, criminal procedures are different from what I can ween out. With that in mind, if the coroner is absolutely unwilling to allow the body to be reexamined, I'm afraid of the conclusions themselves - either yours or the coroner's.
I apologize for what I type but I am skeptical of how the coroner could come to conclusion of a SAD caused by heart failure assuming what you suspect is true. I quote "My Mother was found with prescription drugs that would cause you to become drowsy. (autopsy findings)" and "Bruising on the back of head and arm." What level of police force was in charge of the initial investigation? From what you've said, the man should have left an armada of fingerprints on both furniture in the room and your mother's body. I am also basing the logic that the man is careless and would not have considered gloves because 1. he has criminal history and 2. he was CAUGHT drinking and laughing as you've said - this is the best way to proceed given that you appear to not have the luxury of considering any other scenario. Furthermore, you need to exploit the fact that your mother's bank account was emptied. If the account is not shared with a family member then you are at a disadvantage however. You need to keep as close an eye on the suspected man as possible - whatever evidence you're citing when he was found drinking and laughing and emptying his bank account, follow that trail and have a constant tab on his location. If possible, confront him with other people while secretly recording. Anything at all will help.
Finally, do you have any access whatsoever to the room of the event? If so, I would recommend picking up some luminol available online and as much graphite dust and tape as possible. Again assuming that you will be receiving no more investigative help, procuring as much evidence as possible no matter how insignificant it may seem.
Due to the lack of info and short time I have, this is the best I could do but the biggest problem is that I'm not sure how Australia's criminal/investigative/prosecution procedures work. If worse comes to worse, you need to keep records of everything and seek a humble prosecutor's office - but hopefully it will not come to that.
Good luck.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 23 2013 17:11 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 17:10 Plexa wrote:
There is nothing that the SC community can do to help prove or disprove this case. You need to go talk to a good lawyer as soon as you can. She mentioned lack of funding, maybe the SC2 community can help there? If this is legit, this is no begging thread.
I understand that. Unless there is an Australian lawyer or law student sitting around on these forums willing to help then there really isn't much we can do except offering support. And indeed, I'm more than happy for this thread to remain for that purpose.
|
If funding is needed, then definitely post this on Reddit. Reddit has a good history of helping out those who are in great financial need.
|
I cannot offer my assistance but I can only extend my condolences. I don't think TL has an lawyer living in Australia but I wish you the best of luck... this is just so depressing to read besides funding(?) I don't think there is anything we can do to help out at this point except to encourage you to talk to a lawyer as soon as possible.
And what Chairman Ray said. reddit has a track record a mile long of helping people with things like this. I hope you find justice for you mother--it's just unimaginable to have to go through something like that.
|
This sounds like something for a real lawyer. Maybe try posting on the law subreddit when reddit comes back up. I'm sorry for your loss
|
Oh, and I just remembered. According to TL Manpower, Scaramanga does Criminal and Civil Law in Austrailia. He would be the perfect one to contact for this. I knew TL manpower was useful!
|
Is there any way that you can provide some proof that he stole your mother's car and emptied her bank account? This can help your case from how complicated it sounds..
I hope you find justice!
|
My condolences, however you should also be directing your concerns to the police. If a crime has been committed here, nothing anyone here can tell you will help unless you can convince the police to undertake an investigation. Without even taking into account the coroner's findings (death by asphyxiation), there are several giant red wtf flags flying in the way she was found - abrasions to the chin, deep bruising on the neck, etc. A toxicology screen, if performed, would indicate if she had taken the medication and also possibly be able to tell when and roughly how much.
Funding for an investigation seems like a BS reason - this from what is mentioned here seems like it would be a decent case with a good possibility for conviction by any half decent prosecutor.
With regards to positional asphyxia, the wikipedia entry may be a way to start - check the sources and external links at the bottom. It's possible, but the evidence as presented suggests that your theory is far far more likely.
As mentioned above, find the best possible lawyer you can find. Also, go talk directly to your state/territory's attorney general. It might not be a bad idea to make contact with the federal Attorney-General's Department. A potential murder should be the highest possible priority for any agency - and on a more depressing note, successful murder prosecutions can be significant career boosters for both police officers and prosecuting attorneys.
With regards to evidence, documents, etc - preserve what you have but I would not do anything else without competent legal advice (aka, not us, unless there is a certified Aussie lawyer amongst us - and if there is, why aren't they PMing you right now rather than reading me?) Certainly, if you can register a complaint with the coroner or someone else, do so.
There are a lot of other things to think of, especially if there are other possible concerns related to the case (if, for instance, the suspect is of a majority group while the victim is of a minority group or the like).
P.S. I'm sorry if anything I've said sounds insensitive or overly clinical - but it's a way of dealing with horrible things sometimes. Your mother deserves better, and absolutely deserves justice. Again, my sincerest condolences.
P.P.S. With regards to funding - this doesn't make sense unless it's budgetary funding towards the coroner's office, police department, or prosecutor's office. Murder investigations and convictions are not funded by private citizens, they are a function of the government (yes, also in Australia, if the Dept of Foreign Affairs website has any semblance to truth). Civil suits surrounding murder are different, and I don't think that's the problem here.
|
On February 23 2013 17:22 Chairman Ray wrote:Oh, and I just remembered. According to TL Manpower, Scaramanga does Criminal and Civil Law in Austrailia. He would be the perfect one to contact for this. I knew TL manpower was useful!
Oh snap, I was going to check that but I ended up just assuming that there were no Australian laywers on TL to my memory. Nice catch there, maybe he can help out >_<
|
On February 23 2013 17:22 Chairman Ray wrote:Oh, and I just remembered. According to TL Manpower, Scaramanga does Criminal and Civil Law in Austrailia. He would be the perfect one to contact for this. I knew TL manpower was useful!
That's an awesome suggestion! I didn't even know about TL manpower before this.
My deepest condolences to OP
|
I would first of all like to offer my sincere condolences - I am sorry for your loss.
I will preface any further comments I make in this thread with saying that my knowledge of forensic medicine is limited to the course I had in medical school. I also do not have any actual insight in the case - I have not examined your mother, read her file or in fact know any of the actual specifics. This makes this impossible to say anything conclusive and the best I can offer is some advice/questions to think about.
I have never heard of any healthy adult suffocating from just sleeping on his/her stomach - I will search Pubmed to see if I can find anything regarding this. Is there any specific reason why you only have 2 days?
1) Get a lawyer, one with expertise in this field, to review the documents with you - they know your legal options a lot better than we do.
2) It should be possible to get a secondary opinion from another forensic expert - although I doubt this will actually do you much good.
3) What drug? Was it prescribed for her? Was it normal for her to take it? Was she in other way under influence of anything? - It is possible this drug caused a prolonging of the QTc (essentially disturbed the electrical circut of the heart) - which in turn can lead to sudden adult death - even without preexisting heart disease.
4) Was any imaging done? Specifically head/neck to look for any trauma
5) Any other signs of her having been in a fight? Any defensive wounds?
If you have any specific medical question I will try to answer them in the best way I can.
|
Aren't you the same person whose family business was burned down a few months ago? I hope someone here can help with this, you deserve some good luck
Can't imagine what you're going through, my heart goes out to you...
|
On February 23 2013 17:33 imJealous wrote:Aren't you the same person whose family business was burned down a few months ago? I hope someone here can help with this, you deserve some good luck Can't imagine what you're going through, my heart goes out to you...
My god, I just looked at her posts and found the blog... just...wow.
This is sad beyond words Really just hope you can catch a break. Stay strong.
|
Hi thank-you everyone for your support during this difficult time.
We were going to get a lawyer, but as it is just an inquest (not enough evidence to go to the DPP)
We are not rich by any means, and the cost for the inquest was $35000 up front, but as advised by the crown the only difference would be who was presenting the questions. We would of gladly paid the fee and done without many things FOREVER if it would of made a difference.
We have paid $5000 for one of the top lawyers in Sydney to read the brief and give advice. He has been worth every cent as the crown inquest time has gone from 1 day to now a week with additional witnesses added.
Our lawyer agrees with the crown that murder in this case is difficult to prove but advises that murder by omission is a possibility. However it relies strongly on the testimony of the parties that day. such as: that no CPR was done - ambulance workers. not giving people access to the apartment and telling them she was sleeping- neighbor as well as his recall of events.
Because this mans recall of events have changed consistently, the police advise even if he does now confess he cannot be held accountable or responsible for his statements. All it means is that he is a liar.
The main issue is time of death, because an exact time of death cannot be established. Exact time and not within an hour is not good enough for "evidence", and him sleeping for approx. 14 hours is a good defense.
The bed and the couch on which she died are in the same very small room directly in front of and facing each other.
i will take the time to rub out his name and our name, as too stop any slander case because this man loves to scam and sue.
Honestly this is just the surface of what this scum has done.
During the car incident, he stole my mothers belongings and tried to make me sign over the car legally to him for there safe return.
I don't know what someone has to do to be held accountable for his actions. He was ordered to pay back only the money that was taken (which he hasn't), given a small fine and put on a 2 year good behavior bond.
I have heard word on the street that he (previously claiming to be disabled, unable to walk unaided and back issues) is now fine, fit, buff and healthy as well as walking unaided. He bragged and through the great vine i found out he had stolen money from a hostel in which he was a manager and was fired- This is in breach of his good behavior.
I literally rang every hostel in NSW to try and track down the owners and beg them to submit a report (without a report the police cannot do anything) This is an ongoing and i am waiting now to hear back from the owner. If i have to drive there every night and grovel on my knees with a picture of my mother to get him to fill out a report i will.
until i edit the documents:
- It would be impossible for the amount of drugs (prescription) in her system to be an overdose
- the drugs in her system would of made her drowsy with poor motor skills.
- the cause of death is lack of oxygen, caused by face down suffocation.
- she did not have any heart complications
- she had bruising on her nose, lips, back of head and arm.
- she had a cut lip and grazed chin.
- she did not have any internal signs of objects obstructing her breathing pathway.
- nothing inside her mouth possible, sealed shut at the time: rigor mortis
unless i can find that this type of suffocation is to date unfounded and present that information to the crown, to then ask this question to the coroner during the inquest, sadly we don't have much of a case.
Thank-you again
|
On February 23 2013 17:10 Plexa wrote:
There is nothing that the SC community can do to help prove or disprove this case. You need to go talk to a good lawyer as soon as you can. I understand your frustration at the situation, but this site is the wrong place to be looking for answers.
I hope that you're able to find justice, and I'm very sorry for the loss of your mother and the added pain that these events are putting you through.
Please
there is a chance, that someone knows someone that knows if this has happened to them.
I am not asking for a fix, or money.
I am asking if anyone has information about this type of death
so i can present these possibilities to the crown.
I am not experienced enough or have enough time to find where this type of information is by myself.
|
|
|
I feel sorry for your loss and send you my deepest condolences.
|
If you need to present a medical case that coroner's assessment is unprecedented would it not be best to talk to a physician?
A specialist in respiratory system perhaps
I think they would be able to help more than a lawyer in at least giving cause for further inquiry
|
On February 23 2013 17:13 Taekwon wrote:
Foremost, I offer my deepest condolences.
Secondly, be more specific on to what extent of funding is available for the investigation - this is in fact of paramount importance. I will assume the absolute worst case scenario in that you will receive absolutely no more help. In this instance, it is more efficient and beneficial to look at this from a different perspective. If you truly believe that the man has murdered your mother, than there is little to no point in looking for counter-examples or previous cases of SAD involving an adult woman without an object causing suffocation.
Third, it would be helpful to learn of where the event took place - simply because assuming this happened in Australia, criminal procedures are different from what I can ween out. With that in mind, if the coroner is absolutely unwilling to allow the body to be reexamined, I'm afraid of the conclusions themselves - either yours or the coroner's.
I apologize for what I type but I am skeptical of how the coroner could come to conclusion of a SAD caused by heart failure assuming what you suspect is true. I quote "My Mother was found with prescription drugs that would cause you to become drowsy. (autopsy findings)" and "Bruising on the back of head and arm." What level of police force was in charge of the initial investigation? From what you've said, the man should have left an armada of fingerprints on both furniture in the room and your mother's body. I am also basing the logic that the man is careless and would not have considered gloves because 1. he has criminal history and 2. he was CAUGHT drinking and laughing as you've said - this is the best way to proceed given that you appear to not have the luxury of considering any other scenario. Furthermore, you need to exploit the fact that your mother's bank account was emptied. If the account is not shared with a family member then you are at a disadvantage however. You need to keep as close an eye on the suspected man as possible - whatever evidence you're citing when he was found drinking and laughing and emptying his bank account, follow that trail and have a constant tab on his location. If possible, confront him with other people while secretly recording. Anything at all will help.
Finally, do you have any access whatsoever to the room of the event? If so, I would recommend picking up some luminol available online and as much graphite dust and tape as possible. Again assuming that you will be receiving no more investigative help, procuring as much evidence as possible no matter how insignificant it may seem.
Due to the lack of info and short time I have, this is the best I could do but the biggest problem is that I'm not sure how Australia's criminal/investigative/prosecution procedures work. If worse comes to worse, you need to keep records of everything and seek a humble prosecutor's office - but hopefully it will not come to that.
Good luck.
It was SAD by suffocation.
there was no heart failure in the findings.
im trying to find out if a death occurred by self suffocation previously.
not a court case of self suffocation
but documentation of self suffocation by face down sleeping.
i hope that makes sense.
We are in Australia yes.
Funding is in reference to people being assigned to the case.
He was given a $400 fine and 2 year good behavior bond.
|
I have not found any cases reported on Pubmed of asphyxiation of a healthy adult by simply sleeping on the stomach without any force applied (either by bed or otherwise). I have searched for 15 minutes with terms such as apshyxiation, adults, sleep - I have gotten hits about post-traumatic swelling causing asphyxiation, epilepsy causing asphyxiation, heck even a guy getting caught in a folding bed. It is of course impossible to rule out the occurrence and once again, forensic medicine is not my specialty, nor do I know any of the details
EDIT:
That includes intoxicated adults.
EDIT2: I should state that the above is assuming she really slept flat on her stomach - there are reports of intoxicated people suffocating after sleeping in other positions:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18761306 <- Best article (PM me if you do not have access)
Other cases:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20938323
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20851361
|
On February 23 2013 17:33 Ghostcom wrote:
I would first of all like to offer my sincere condolences - I am sorry for your loss.
I will preface any further comments I make in this thread with saying that my knowledge of forensic medicine is limited to the course I had in medical school. I also do not have any actual insight in the case - I have not examined your mother, read her file or in fact know any of the actual specifics. This makes this impossible to say anything conclusive and the best I can offer is some advice/questions to think about.
I have never heard of any healthy adult suffocating from just sleeping on his/her stomach - I will search Pubmed to see if I can find anything regarding this. Is there any specific reason why you only have 2 days?
1) Get a lawyer, one with expertise in this field, to review the documents with you - they know your legal options a lot better than we do.
2) It should be possible to get a secondary opinion from another forensic expert - although I doubt this will actually do you much good.
3) What drug? Was it prescribed for her? Was it normal for her to take it? Was she in other way under influence of anything? - It is possible this drug caused a prolonging of the QTc (essentially disturbed the electrical circut of the heart) - which in turn can lead to sudden adult death - even without preexisting heart disease.
4) Was any imaging done? Specifically head/neck to look for any trauma
5) Any other signs of her having been in a fight? Any defensive wounds?
If you have any specific medical question I will try to answer them in the best way I can.
Thankyou this helped out a lot
I have never heard of any healthy adult suffocating from just sleeping on his/her stomach - I will search Pubmed to see if I can find anything regarding this. Is there any specific reason why you only have 2 days?
Sorry for not being more clear.
the inquest is in 2 days. it is when we can express our final concerns and submit questions to sway the possibility of evidence in favor of going to DPP for a trial.
Currently he cannot be charged as it needs to be first approved that there is sufficient case that a murder took place.
|
On February 23 2013 18:23 Ghostcom wrote:I have not found any cases reported on Pubmed of asphyxiation of a healthy adult by simply sleeping on the stomach without any force applied (either by bed or otherwise). I have searched for 15 minutes with terms such as apshyxiation, adults, sleep - I have gotten hits about post-traumatic swelling causing asphyxiation, epilepsy causing asphyxiation, heck even a guy getting caught in a folding bed. It is of course impossible to rule out the occurrence and once again, forensic medicine is not my specialty, nor do I know any of the details EDIT: That includes intoxicated adults. EDIT2: I should state that the above is assuming she really slept flat on her stomach - there are reports of intoxicated people suffocating after sleeping in other positions: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18761306 <- Best article (PM me if you do not have access) Other cases: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20938323http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20851361
your post made me smile about the folding bed.
i'm glad there are no other incidents.
this may be enough for us to get a trial. i am just trying to confirm my findings on Monday.
The best proof i have about this is no proof.
but even if this event is also highly unlikely, and not common is also a good thing.
|
Goddamn, you again. =/
Just to clarify, am I reading this correctly that the coroner stated that she lied on her stomach and suffocated because... she couldn't breathe through her mouth or nose?
Not even heroin addicts or people taking any kind of heavy medication sleep on their nose and mouth. I have seen people fall unconscious onto their stomach but the head always turned sideways. If I was in your position I would most likely try to find a doctor who can state that dieing because "you were sleeping on your nose".
Simply because I remember the other story, is there any relation between those cases? How was that man related to your mother? Was he stalking her, in love with her, anything that can be seen as a motive? Who did he talk to on the phone?
What was the coroners explanation for the blood and her wounds?
Edit: Was her nose broken?
Edit 2: Which prescription drugs exactly? Were they ones she took regularly and/or was it the normal dosage or not?
Edit 3: Proving that there was "no case like this" is almost impossible and even IF you find such a case it is irrelevant to this case. Try and find a forensic or another coroner that can argue that - especially under those drugs - she can't physically make the effort to turn her head into a position that makes her suffocate. Furthermore, even IF she can assume that position that she wasn't overweight enough to make this happen and/or argue the physical impossibility of keeping your head that way - unless force is applied.
|
Did you hire private investigator? I know for once that in our country there are many very capable private investigators who have been on the force for over 30 years before going private and they are quite affordable and definitely possess a lot of knowledge and contacts with other experts in criminology.
|
On February 23 2013 18:37 -CheekyDuck- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 18:23 Ghostcom wrote:I have not found any cases reported on Pubmed of asphyxiation of a healthy adult by simply sleeping on the stomach without any force applied (either by bed or otherwise). I have searched for 15 minutes with terms such as apshyxiation, adults, sleep - I have gotten hits about post-traumatic swelling causing asphyxiation, epilepsy causing asphyxiation, heck even a guy getting caught in a folding bed. It is of course impossible to rule out the occurrence and once again, forensic medicine is not my specialty, nor do I know any of the details EDIT: That includes intoxicated adults. EDIT2: I should state that the above is assuming she really slept flat on her stomach - there are reports of intoxicated people suffocating after sleeping in other positions: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18761306 <- Best article (PM me if you do not have access) Other cases: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20938323http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20851361 your post made me smile about the folding bed. i'm glad there are no other incidents. this may be enough for us to get a trial. i am just trying to confirm my findings on Monday. The best proof i have about this is no proof. but even if this event is also highly unlikely, and not common is also a good thing.
Even if you can contest the coroners finding I do not know how much you will gain. There is still the possibility of it being a sudden arrhythmic death caused by a QT-interval prolongation as a consequence of the drug (provided it is one of the drugs that can cause this) - even in therapeutic ranges and without pre-existing heart-condition this is a very real possibility.
But at least you will get them to take another look which could possibly provide you with a better explanation.
I wish you the very best of luck and hope you will be able to find some peace whatever the outcome may be.
EDIT: SAD by prolonged QT-interval can not be proven post-mortem conclusively - it is exclusion diagnosis as far as I recall.
|
If i were you, i would have immediately linked the arsonist of your family owned tattoo parlor with this guy. There is no way for 2 tragedies to happen within a span of 3 months. Try to ask his friends of he suffered burn wounds at december. If he did, at least the case will be postponed, giving you more time to find more evidence.
If he was the one/hired people to arson your family business, it would make more sense for this to have happened, giving him a motive to kill. Probably tried to extort money from your mother, failed, arsoned your family business. Tried again, this time face to face in the crime scene, sedating her to stop her from struggling, got rejected again, but this time with the ultimate price paid. Stole her bank card and tried to make you give him her car.
|
I'd like to know where the body was when it was found, and what position it was in. Other details are nice to know also.
Aside from that, I think one of the most important things is a motive for the accused; there's nothing mentioned. Being a dick is one thing, but that doesn't mean they're a murderer.
unless i can find that this type of suffocation is to date unfounded and present that information to the crown, to then ask this question to the coroner during the inquest, sadly we don't have much of a case.
Uhh.... shouldn't it be the crown's duty to first claim/prove that IS a reasonable/founded scenario?
Right now it sounds like you're looking for a lack of something, AKA negative evidence. That shouldn't be how things work legally, because it's invalid logic. If someone says "green crows exist", the valid logic isn't for a challenger to find every crow in the world and examine if it's green; the valid logic is for the person making the claim to justify the claim, such as by demonstrating a green crow.
after her death he stole her car and emptied her bank accounts How long after, and how is this known? What's his explanation of this? Did he report the death?
|
My condolences.
In Norway, it's sometimes very effective to go to the tabloid media with cases such as these. The tabloids love any story that can be spun as a "personal tragedy" story and they often write about them. Many of those gain a considerable amount of attention and result in proceedings being reopened after they were originally shut. If you were in Norway, our tabloids would have a field day with "the girl whose family's business was burnt down, mother killed and case neglected".
However, Norway's a small country with only 5 million inhabitants and I, personally, hate the fact using the media as a tool in such a way can be so effective (although I am, of course, pleased that cases get resolved). I could easily imagine that "circumventing" the legal system by using the tabloids might be frowned upon by the public in any other country, or simply be utterly ineffective in a country larger than Norway. I would suggest that you consult with other Australians, as to how they view any such action before you might decide to do it. You seem somewhat desperate (although I certainly understand why!) to get the case underway, so you may have lost all objectivity as to which actions are productive or not. Just because there was an option (this one) in a thread, doesn't mean it's a good option, so listen to your fellow Aussies if they tell you that this is definitely not the way to do things in Australia.
Moreover, it may be a huge burden to be a "public figure" if you do decide to contact the media. People are usually very rude on the internet and you may see lots of comments that are unsympathetic to you or even hostile. You should consider if that is something you're able to handle.
I'm very sorry if this post comes across as blunt or cynical and I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way. I simply want to be clear on the pros and cons and that results in a somewhat blunt language. Also, this is not an encouragement to use the media, but I simply wanted you to have all the options available to you and this option was not mentioned yet. Of course, starting with all the options, means you need to weed out the bad ones and this may just be one of the bad ones. However, we don't know that for sure until some other Australians have weighed in.
I sincerely hope you get this sorted out!
|
Just to clarify, am I reading this correctly that the coroner stated that she lied on her stomach and suffocated because... she couldn't breathe through her mouth or nose?
Yes
Not even heroin addicts or people taking any kind of heavy medication sleep on their nose and mouth. I have seen people fall unconscious onto their stomach but the head always turned sideways. If I was in your position I would most likely try to find a doctor who can state that dieing because "you were sleeping on your nose".
this is what i'm trying to find out.
Simply because I remember the other story, is there any relation between those cases? How was that man related to your mother? Was he stalking her, in love with her, anything that can be seen as a motive? Who did he talk to on the phone?
the phone was my mothers, a 17sec message was left but was deleted. burner phones cannot have there database examined for some reason
What was the coroners explanation for the blood and her wounds?
inconclusive
Edit: Was her nose broken?
no
Edit 2: Which prescription drugs exactly? Were they ones she took regularly and/or was it the normal dosage or not? his prescription drugs, did not belong to her
Edit 3: Proving that there was "no case like this" is almost impossible and even IF you find such a case it is irrelevant to this case. Try and find a forensic or another coroner that can argue that - especially under those drugs - she can't physically make the effort to turn her head into a position that makes her suffocate. Furthermore, even IF she can assume that position that she wasn't overweight enough to make this happen and/or argue the physical impossibility of keeping your head that way - unless force is applied
We are looking into this option as well
|
On February 23 2013 21:05 iMAniaC wrote:
My condolences.
In Norway, it's sometimes very effective to go to the tabloid media with cases such as these. The tabloids love any story that can be spun as a "personal tragedy" story and they often write about them. Many of those gain a considerable amount of attention and result in proceedings being reopened after they were originally shut. If you were in Norway, our tabloids would have a field day with "the girl whose family's business was burnt down, mother killed and case neglected".
However, Norway's a small country with only 5 million inhabitants and I, personally, hate the fact using the media as a tool in such a way can be so effective (although I am, of course, pleased that cases get resolved). I could easily imagine that "circumventing" the legal system by using the tabloids might be frowned upon by the public in any other country, or simply be utterly ineffective in a country larger than Norway. I would suggest that you consult with other Australians, as to how they view any such action before you might decide to do it. You seem somewhat desperate (although I certainly understand why!) to get the case underway, so you may have lost all objectivity as to which actions are productive or not. Just because there was an option (this one) in a thread, doesn't mean it's a good option, so listen to your fellow Aussies if they tell you that this is definitely not the way to do things in Australia.
Moreover, it may be a huge burden to be a "public figure" if you do decide to contact the media. People are usually very rude on the internet and you may see lots of comments that are unsympathetic to you or even hostile. You should consider if that is something you're able to handle.
I'm very sorry if this post comes across as blunt or cynical and I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way. I simply want to be clear on the pros and cons and that results in a somewhat blunt language. Also, this is not an encouragement to use the media, but I simply wanted you to have all the options available to you and this option was not mentioned yet. Of course, starting with all the options, means you need to weed out the bad ones and this may just be one of the bad ones. However, we don't know that for sure until some other Australians have weighed in.
I sincerely hope you get this sorted out!
that is an option i am willing to explore. Thank-you
|
Do not take this as a professional medical opinion. However:
I searched through multiple peer reviewed medical journals and a number of interdisciplinary journals:
- British Medical Journal
- PubMed Central
- InterNurse
- ScienceDirect
- Nature
- Internurse
I also had a look at the Sci/Eng journals just in case anything turned up in them.
There is no reference and found no indication of this being a known phenomenon. I also have a further (non-official) medical opinion which I will quote for you - the source is a working emergency surgeon with 8 years experience:
- okay firstly why exactly do you want to know, i can tailor the answer to make more sense
- Essentially, is it possible for someone who has taken sleeping pills prior to going to sleep to suffocate on their own pillow without the use of external force
Purely by lying on their front
No vomiting, no external blockages. Just a pillow, a woman and sleeping pills.
- yes it is possible
- What circumstances would it require?
12:41
- obesity and possibly hypersensitivity to whatever pills she took
in addition you can add cardiovascular abnormalities
however it is unlikely because most people would wake up under such situations
and sleeping pills facilitate regular sleep,
so it shouldn't really cause this
So unless your mum meets any of those conditions then you're probably on the right track. Please get a second official medical opinion but in both of our opinions, this is physically unlikely without these preconditions.
|
On February 23 2013 21:05 iMAniaC wrote:
My condolences.
In Norway, it's sometimes very effective to go to the tabloid media with cases such as these. The tabloids love any story that can be spun as a "personal tragedy" story and they often write about them. Many of those gain a considerable amount of attention and result in proceedings being reopened after they were originally shut. If you were in Norway, our tabloids would have a field day with "the girl whose family's business was burnt down, mother killed and case neglected".
However, Norway's a small country with only 5 million inhabitants and I, personally, hate the fact using the media as a tool in such a way can be so effective (although I am, of course, pleased that cases get resolved). I could easily imagine that "circumventing" the legal system by using the tabloids might be frowned upon by the public in any other country, or simply be utterly ineffective in a country larger than Norway. I would suggest that you consult with other Australians, as to how they view any such action before you might decide to do it. You seem somewhat desperate (although I certainly understand why!) to get the case underway, so you may have lost all objectivity as to which actions are productive or not. Just because there was an option (this one) in a thread, doesn't mean it's a good option, so listen to your fellow Aussies if they tell you that this is definitely not the way to do things in Australia.
Moreover, it may be a huge burden to be a "public figure" if you do decide to contact the media. People are usually very rude on the internet and you may see lots of comments that are unsympathetic to you or even hostile. You should consider if that is something you're able to handle.
I'm very sorry if this post comes across as blunt or cynical and I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way. I simply want to be clear on the pros and cons and that results in a somewhat blunt language. Also, this is not an encouragement to use the media, but I simply wanted you to have all the options available to you and this option was not mentioned yet. Of course, starting with all the options, means you need to weed out the bad ones and this may just be one of the bad ones. However, we don't know that for sure until some other Australians have weighed in.
I sincerely hope you get this sorted out!
Australians are pretty dumb. And our tabloid tv programs are atrocious. I wouldn't rule it out working here at all.
Edit: Having said that, while a lot of terrible stories get reported on these shows, whether they end up having any significant affect is totally debatable. In fact the more I think about it, I could only see this having a positive affect if it was an individual having a problem or complaint with a business or company. Barring a terrible scandal (which the serious side of journalism would cover anyway) I can't see any government authority bowing to pressure from our tabloid media in something like this.
Edit 2: I hope your family gets justice. Losing a parent is a horrible thing to go through, these circumstances would make it heart-breaking.
|
I've updated my post with information that is relevant. To reiterate - there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that this is a common phenomenon outside of obesity and hypersensitivity, with the risk factor of being a smoker.
Please push forward with your enquiries. This was almost certainly not a natural death.
|
|
|
United Kingdom16710 Posts
I can only offer you my deepest condolences. I really hope you find justice for your mother.
|
That's a terrible loss and the outcome is a punch in the face.
The only thing I don't understand is how the coroner put natural death cause when your mother had been drugged.
It should be easy to ask her doctor if she ever got that medication prescribed and find out the way it was administered. If she never got that medication prescribed or took it in an unconventional way then the natural cause hypothesis can already be dismissed. Not to mention the injuries.
|
Ugh, so many bad things happen to you. I have your stream on favorites and have always enjoyed watching you every now and then. I really hope this guy gets brought to justice. I get so sick of seeing these type of things go unpunished when it's obvious that the death wasn't natural. Stay strong Beeduck...
|
On February 23 2013 21:35 Subversive wrote:
Australians are pretty dumb. And our tabloid tv programs are atrocious. I wouldn't rule it out working here at all.
Edit: Having said that, while a lot of terrible stories get reported on these shows, whether they end up having any significant affect is totally debatable. In fact the more I think about it, I could only see this having a positive affect if it was an individual having a problem or complaint with a business or company. Barring a terrible scandal (which the serious side of journalism would cover anyway) I can't see any government authority bowing to pressure from our tabloid media in something like this.
Sadly I also doubt our media would put pressure on a case like this, people care less about people and more about scandal. A Current Affair crew harassing him would sure make his life pretty miserable thou.
I'm sorry for your loss and hope you find justice.
I wish I knew of something that could help you out.
|
Judging by the evidence u pointed out it's clearly not likely that she died of natural causes.
Obviously the coroner made a false conclusion, if what you say is true ( and I doubt u are lying ).
Is this man, who you believe to be the killer, tied into politics, or influential in some way ( money or whatever )?
Because if he is, it's quite possible he used his ties in this case. We all know how this works unfortunately.
If that's not the case, I would try to go for a second opinion if it's possible.
|
Most heartfelt condolences to you and yours. I hope you get the professional advice and help you need to find justice.
|
|
|
|
|
My deepest condolences.
Have you posted on reddit already?
|
As already said before, healthy people do not self asphyxiate without some external factors. Commonest being severe alcohol intoxication, neurological impairment, severe obesity, external force/restraint. Various Pubmed articles describe severely intoxicated individuals with comatose-ish blood alcohol levels. The sort of level that impairs neurologcal function to a degree than you cannot protect your own airway.
Sudden adult death syndrome does not necessarilty leave any obvious evidence behind apart from abnormal ECGs (Braguda's syndrome). It can be tested for genetically, and affects young blokes from Laos and Thailand. Various congential cardiomyopathies are generally seen on post mortem as structual defects.
My understanding of what you have written is that the coroners report of "Death by asphyxiation" does not make it natural or un-natural. A basic tox screen should also have been done for opiates, benzos which as far as I know are detectable post mortem, if sufficiently high, could rule in an accidental death, but you can argue does not exclude murder given other circumstancial evidence.
I don't fully understand the situation i.e. you don't state that a verdict of accidental death has been issued.
Edit: Summary is that you have a good argument for an un-natural death as there is no clear evidence that your mother was compromised enough to die from accidental positional asphyxiation and there is no family history of Sudden Adult Death Syndrome / Bragudas.
This assumes
1) no tox screen done or insufficiently high levels of alcohol/opiate/benzos
2) findings of a normal myocardium
|
My condolences, I lost my father at a young age and while no, it wasn't murder, the affect was probably as heart wrenching and unexpected.
You'd make her proud to see to what lengths you'd go for justice as you make, at least speaking for myself and what I think, the entire TL community proud.
If I had the money, if I was rich, I would send along such a sum for an investigation without hesitation.
Good luck.
|
i wish u the best of luck, hope she may rest easy
|
Damn, sorry for your loss, I hope your will have justice and peace one day.
|
Wtf. I am so sorry to hear this. My condolences.
|
First off let me offer you condolences, you are an admirable person who obviously loved your mother dearly.
There are a couple of things that bug me about this whole situation. What has become of this man? Is he not even a suspect? Have the police completely ruled out foul play? Im sorry but the police seem to be doing a pretty shitty job of investigating this. There was an arson incident that occurred to your family a short while back, and now your mother is dead and toxicology reports indicate that she was under the influence of meds that DID NOT BELONG to her. I mean...what more evidence could the police possibly need to at the very minimum pursue foul play as a POSSIBILITY. Isn't there a way to tie these meds to the guy your accusing? If he has prescription for these pills and they were found in your moms system at the time of her death that in and of itself is a CRIME. Idk how it is in Australia but in the states he would surely get in trouble for distributing that medication to your mother and it might even be cause of at least a manslaughter charge. Another thing that bothers me is this, you say he emptied out her bank accounts. How?? Again, here in the states you can't even withdraw money without there being a camera right in your face at the ATM and even worse if you go to the actual bank and withdraw from a teller there are like ten cameras pointed at you. So how did he withdraw this money? Unless they had a joint bank account or something? If they didnt have a joint bank account and he really withdrew her money then it should be easy to get him on camera doing the deed, and if he withdrew the money at the exact time that your mother died that is PLENTY of reason for the POLICE to suspect foul play. Are they really so negligent? If they catch him withdrawing her money, they could at least arrest him and hold him for that while they continue to investigate your mother's death.
Also, like others have said here, i would definitely go to the media if i were you. How sure are you that this guy murdered your mom? If your sure, then do it. Make sure they print about the arson and about this, there is no way the police will not investigate it further if only for the sole purpose of covering their ass. Also as some other people have mentioned, USE REDDIT. Reddit is a huge website with a huge user base which = a huge resource at your disposal. Make a post and link them to this thread or something, i guarantee you an Australian will weigh in on the situation and alot of lawyers can provide very sound advice all free of cost to you. Perhaps if it gets big enough the media will even pick up on it all on their own. I love my mother, and if this happened to her idk what i would do. I'd kill the fucking bastard if this didn't pan out (edit: dont do this), but i really hope that it ends well for you. Stay strong you'll be okay You have the whole internet behind you!
|
I'm really sorry for your loss!!!
One aspect of the tabloids, not mentioned, is the ability to get the world to work for you and cover ground fast. They may not be able to apply direct pressure to the investigative system, but they definitely can draw attention by a huge amount of medical people, who I'm sure will all reach out to you with their opinion.
Even news stations have their own "med expert" who gets on to talk about criminal cases and aspects. Even if they won't air your story, they may have their own expert look at it and give an opinion which could be helpful!
OMG Best of luck!! <3
|
I hope you find the person and bring him to justice. I am so sorry to hear what has happened to you, and we all should be flattered that he came to us as a community to help him. Even though we cannot, we (and I speak for most of us) so happy you did so. Best of luck man! <3 R.I.P to your mother too and everything will be okay <3
|
Edit:
they did know each other yes.
he was pulling a disability con
she was his career
he had her pin number, he was found guilty, but only fined.
.....
I just finished reading the brief again with a tooth comb with my sister, most of the summery from the crown had wrong dates and incorrect information, the report to the coroner was mostly incorrect as if they only skimmed through the brief.
UPDATE:
4.30pm
the ambulance workers found her on her back on the floor,
but lividity was on the right side of her body and inner left leg.
(autopsy: only right bum cheek and only left hand has a bruise)
lividity was on the left side of her face!
blood was on the arm on the left side,
testimony that lividty was set
midnight
Forensic attended the scene (the person has had this title for 12 months, only 1 person)
most of what they did was take photos
what they did find that lividity was on her back and could not be fixed, could be blanced.
front tooth pressed into bottom lip.
so for a natural death?
so when sleeping on her right side she twisted her head, she suffocated face down but at some point her face was moved/twisted more further into the couch? i don't believe you can naturally fall asleep in that position without assistance.
It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body.
With this information they cannot give me a time of death smaller that a 12 hour window?
I believe the reason my mother has not been investigated more than basic "new" possibly training staff and young crown investigators is that she was very poor. And the person in question is a low life. If my family were not demanding every step of the way, this would already be over and most likely ruled as a suicide (we were once told that it was, but we demanded a further investigation and that possibility is now taken off the table, but when we buried her we didn't know, just in case i asked the priest to try and give her extra forgiveness if she did kill herself). We live in a world on who is worth your time and who is not, but i think she is worth digging to the bottom for.
|
On February 23 2013 17:13 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 17:11 Fenrax wrote:On February 23 2013 17:10 Plexa wrote:
There is nothing that the SC community can do to help prove or disprove this case. You need to go talk to a good lawyer as soon as you can. She mentioned lack of funding, maybe the SC2 community can help there? If this is legit, this is no begging thread. I understand that. Unless there is an Australian lawyer or law student sitting around on these forums willing to help then there really isn't much we can do except offering support. And indeed, I'm more than happy for this thread to remain for that purpose.
You would be surprised what a huge group of nerds can accomplish.
|
That's fucked up man, condolences. Hope shit works out for you. Like people are saying get a lawyer. But really, is this the place to say put stuff like this..?
|
Have you received a copy of the autopsy report? If so, can you post it here?
|
|
|
On February 24 2013 08:26 ziggurat wrote:
Have you received a copy of the autopsy report? If so, can you post it here?
I would seriously discourage that. Autopsy reports can be hard enough to read and understand fully for a layman and I do not think that having 1095475 people reading it and each giving their input without knowing their background will help in any way.
|
Sorry for your loss, I hope someone on TL can help provide something you're looking for. Unfortunately, I don't have any expertise that would be applicable here
|
Sorry for your loss.
I wonder if reddit (/r/askreddit?) can help you out.
The forensic may be "new" but i trust that he/she should at least spent years in the education system to at least follow the protocol: if anything the person would be extra careful since they are "new" to the job.
Incorrect dates on important reports (which are important evidence) might have an effect on a trial... should get that fixed. For all I know they could have done something as dumb as examining the wrong body.
|
The autopsy report will set out the pathologist's findings and the reason why they think it's not a homicide. As a criminal lawyer I've read a lot of them and I don't find them that hard to read. If the OP has the report and thinks there are errors then that would be a good place to start.
|
On February 24 2013 08:29 BannedForTwoSc2Games wrote:
Look, I've tried everything. I've used the contact form many times, but I've never even been given the dignity of a reply.
I've wrote long messages before, but at the end of the day, I'm tired and just, dissapointed.
I was banned months ago for playing two games of sc2 on battle.net with a maphack to see what it was like. This community is my home, this game is my home. Maybe Plexa was having a shitty day. I don't know and I don't really bother about that.
All I'm asking is a reasonable response.
User was banned for this post.
...wut?
|
Best of luck to you. I'm sorry for your loss
|
I'm also very sorry for your loss.
I also don't have the expertise for this kind of problem. Although I guess ziggurat's opinion is something you should really consider, since finding a flaw on the report is a major thing.
I sincerely hope you can achieve the truth.
|
I've completed my exam in forensic medicine about two weeks ago. I have it written in my literature, that suffocation by blockade of external air pathways (occlusio nasi et oris) can (and did) indeed happen by accident when people fell asleep on their faces (after epileptic seizure or when very drunk).
|
Netherlands45349 Posts
My condolences, best of luck with your case.
|
I'm sorry for your loss, my condolences to you and your family.
What I'm about to write is certainly not what you want to hear, and I will preface it by saying I am not a medical expert by any means. That said, I used to work for a life insurance company. I have heard of cases where a person suffocated after falling asleep in a bad position. Typically, this was caused by the person having taken a medication beforehand, or a medical condition that the person had such as sleep apnea. A person taking these medications or having one of these conditions is a significant contributor to their risk of death due to suffocation, and increases their cost of insurance. On the other hand, because it is actually a common thing, it is possible that the coroner jumped to a conclusion - ziggurat's post is a good one. Best of luck, I hope you find peace and justice.
|
My deepest condolences, I am truly sorry I can not be of help. Best of luck.
|
Accept the fact that you will never get justice.
|
On February 24 2013 08:15 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 17:13 Plexa wrote:On February 23 2013 17:11 Fenrax wrote:On February 23 2013 17:10 Plexa wrote:
There is nothing that the SC community can do to help prove or disprove this case. You need to go talk to a good lawyer as soon as you can. She mentioned lack of funding, maybe the SC2 community can help there? If this is legit, this is no begging thread. I understand that. Unless there is an Australian lawyer or law student sitting around on these forums willing to help then there really isn't much we can do except offering support. And indeed, I'm more than happy for this thread to remain for that purpose. You would be surprised what a huge group of nerds can accomplish.
Canadian embassy comes to mind if I recall lol.
|
On February 24 2013 10:17 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 08:15 NoobSkills wrote:On February 23 2013 17:13 Plexa wrote:On February 23 2013 17:11 Fenrax wrote:On February 23 2013 17:10 Plexa wrote:
There is nothing that the SC community can do to help prove or disprove this case. You need to go talk to a good lawyer as soon as you can. She mentioned lack of funding, maybe the SC2 community can help there? If this is legit, this is no begging thread. I understand that. Unless there is an Australian lawyer or law student sitting around on these forums willing to help then there really isn't much we can do except offering support. And indeed, I'm more than happy for this thread to remain for that purpose. You would be surprised what a huge group of nerds can accomplish. Canadian embassy comes to mind if I recall lol.
At least we found him.
according to proquest direct. No articles about someone suffocation in their own bed for adults was found.
|
|
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
to the frontpage, so that more people will read and maybe help
|
Wow my condolences, I have lost my Mother when I was 7 but I know The reason, I think There is nothing worse then being clueless ;(
|
My condolences for your loss.
[edited out now that I read the thread, I have no further advice]
|
This is really sad and very unjust. I pray that this man eventually gets what is coming to him and that you will someday have peace.
|
You would get more information and help if you posted this at Reddit. I highly advise you do so.
|
what a dreadful situation. hoping for the best for you and your family.
|
I'm very sorry for your loss. I hope justice will be served.
|
Glen Cleary cannot be found, the case was ruled open, but thats pretty much it sadly.
I still have other charges like fraud to pursue, but some people do just get away with murder.
Thank-you to the mods, tl community for your support and help. (even with the verdict, it did help establish an unnatural death and ruled out suicide)
I am deeply grateful.
Jessica
|
On March 01 2013 14:30 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
Glen Cleary cannot be found, the case was ruled open, but thats pretty much it sadly.
I still have other charges like fraud to pursue, but some people do just get away with murder.
Thank-you to the mods, tl community for your support and help. (even with the verdict, it did help establish an unnatural death and ruled out suicide)
I am deeply grateful.
Jessica
He is no found as in he went on the lamb or they just could not find enough evidence to charge him with murder? I am sorry I did not see this thread until now. I have some limited experience in forensics (as a PhD student in Biological/Forensic Anthropology) so I am somewhat familiar with journals and case studies. I will review this thread to see what has been looked at but if they were able to ascertain that the death was unnatural wouldn't they have investigated this man and his possible connections to the case?
Also I am very sorry for your loss
|
Hi sorry i mean, he has run away and the police cannot find him, so he has avoided the warrent to attend court.
|
On March 01 2013 14:30 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
Glen Cleary cannot be found, the case was ruled open, but thats pretty much it sadly.
I still have other charges like fraud to pursue, but some people do just get away with murder.
Thank-you to the mods, tl community for your support and help. (even with the verdict, it did help establish an unnatural death and ruled out suicide)
I am deeply grateful.
Jessica
I am thankful that you at least found some answers. I really do wish the very best for you and your family in the future.
EDIT: And thank you for taking the time to give us the update.
|
I wonder, but keep in mind this is coming from the limited information presented.
1) what was exact drug found in her system?
2) was there any imaging done for trauma analysis? And what were the official stated cause and manner of death?
3) did the forensic technician at the scene and the coroner collect any evidence (hair, fibers finger prints, blood sample etc) that could link this guy to the scene?
4) you said they were able to place him at the scene but not definitely around time of death?
5) she was found on her back on the floor as opposed to on her stomach on the sofa? It sounds like from what you describe the body was moved/tampered with postmortem/perimortem
6) you said bruising was found on the back of her neck and arm with various other abrasions? Defensive wounds?
|
condolences, and don't worry too much over him running away...they'll catch him sometime for some random other charge and realize this is the guy who committed murder and he'll have to face those charges eventually.
|
Thats just sad i must say and i'm sorry for your loss. May the God-Emperor purify and bring justice!
|
My condolences to you and your family. I can`t imagine what you are going through, I hope the best for you in the future.
|
This is terrible how someone can get away with murder...
|
Wow. This person sounds like a genuine psychopath. One who is willing to go to extreme lengths and to inflict terrible emotional damage just to the end of profiting personally in some way or another (money, promotion, social status, etc.).
I really feel bad for you, and I really hope you are able to solve this and get this person out of your life.
|
Doesn't the fact that he ran away make him look guilty?
|
On March 01 2013 16:39 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Wow. This person sounds like a genuine psychopath. One who is willing to go to extreme lengths and to inflict terrible emotional damage just to the end of profiting personally in some way or another (money, promotion, social status, etc.).
I really feel bad for you, and I really hope you are able to solve this and get this person out of your life.
That is not the correct definition of a psychopath, also, psychopathy is a disorder and not necessarily ''evil''.
Anyways, glad OP manage to find justice, in some way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
