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I can attest that building and launching rockets is a fun hobby to have. Recovery isn't so fun, but it looks like he doesn't have that problem. No wonder he looks so happy.
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Terrorizing your neighbor looks like so much fun
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First time visiting this thread. I have lived in South Korea for over three years, my wife is from Seoul (we live in Australia) but we visit the South every year for a holiday - going next month.
I have come here after reading yesterday's news that the US is considering handing the NK issue over to the Pentagon (for security/political/military planning). There was talk in the article I read on the BBC news that the Pentagon has potential military strategies that would remove North Korea from the map without 'significant damage' to South Korea. This is utterly false.
The north runs sophisticated radar systems capable of detecting incoming high altitude bombers and whilst 20 years behind the THAAD missile defence system deployed in the south, it also has thousands (actually thousands - 2014 estimate was approx 3000) of highly capable auto-tracking AA guns effective against fighters and missiles.
But these are not the concern; they are merely the early warning system. The moment the NK admin receives word there is a code red - up to 8000+ long range artillery guns (howitzers and spgs) varying in calibre from 120mm to 170mm will shell Seoul. These guns (the Koksan is the most brutal) can fire enormous high impact shells every 2.5 minutes. Given Seoul's notorious high population density, the casualties of a single volley would be staggering, 4 vollies in ten minutes from 8000+ of these is unthinkable.
Then there was the idea of evacuating Seoul before a potential strike against the North. Many experts have commented that this is an economic and logistical impossibility.
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
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Yup Seoul's gonna be gone in the first 15 minutes if anybody tries anything, even without nukes. All that's left now is to see, between Kim Jong Un and Donald J. Trump, who's gonna trigger who first into doing something stupid.
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On September 19 2017 16:44 riotjune wrote:
Yup Seoul's gonna be gone in the first 15 minutes if anybody tries anything, even without nukes. All that's left now is to see, between Kim Jong Un and Donald J. Trump, who's gonna trigger who first into doing something stupid.
Agreed - very well put.
This will not be Iraq, Syria or Vietnam. NK has real teeth that can now not be avoided, preemptive strike is death to millions with possible wildfire spreading. Waiting it out and attempting to live with NK seems like death to only NK citizens and prisoners. Yet one slight miscalculation on either side will bring it anyway. For my $ war is on the way and I advise all my family the same.
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United States24740 Posts
On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do."
On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK.
Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion.
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On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion.
It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing.
I'm not arguing for/against sanctions, but in terms of military solutions, doing nothing is the only path that doesn't involve tens of millions of South Koreans dying, even if this does mean accepting MAD with NK. No people should have the right to make that decision except for the SK people themselves.
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On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing. I'm not arguing for/against sanctions, but in terms of military solutions, doing nothing is the only path that doesn't involve tens of millions of South Koreans dying, even if this does mean accepting MAD with NK. No people should have the right to make that decision except for the SK people themselves.
Whats so absurd about this? They have quite a large military and nearly every penny they spend goes that way too. At the rate theyve developed their rocket program you dont think they could catch up in other areas as well?
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On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing.
They do have the ICBMs for it though.
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On September 19 2017 21:49 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing. They do have the ICBMs for it though.
I don't follow. ICBMs will not allow NK to take on other regional rivals, nor will they help in repelling an invasion from the US, should the US commit to one.
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On September 19 2017 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 21:49 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing. They do have the ICBMs for it though. I don't follow. ICBMs will not allow NK to take on other regional rivals, nor will they help in repelling an invasion from the US, should the US commit to one.
Deterrence. If the US wishes to attack they will now do so knowing that there will be a nuclear counterattack, both on their invasion force and on their homeland. That's sufficiently powerful enough to be able to say that they can repel an invasion.
Also, two of the four regional rivals of NK are great power nations. Not being on equal footing with them is understandable.
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I hope once NK deems it's nuclear deterrent sufficient enough to be safe from imperialistic US warmongers, they can abolish the Songun policy, strengthen their economy and see the living standards of ordinary Koreans improve.
I don't see the overall situation on the Korean peninsular normalizing before the US loses it's position as undoubtedly nr 1 global hegemon, which is probably still a lifetime away.(maybe less if they keep voting for Donald Trump lol) NK can't let their guard down as long as their arch enemy, a country that on average bombs a different country every second year, is able to conduct military exercises right in front of their borders.
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On September 19 2017 21:48 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing. I'm not arguing for/against sanctions, but in terms of military solutions, doing nothing is the only path that doesn't involve tens of millions of South Koreans dying, even if this does mean accepting MAD with NK. No people should have the right to make that decision except for the SK people themselves. Whats so absurd about this? They have quite a large military and nearly every penny they spend goes that way too. At the rate theyve developed their rocket program you dont think they could catch up in other areas as well?
They have 21 million people, a limited ammount of territory for natural resources and a state run economy that as far as I can tell is not largely developed. No, they can't hope neither to project power or actually survive all out war. What they can do is make it expensive to do war against them.
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As far as I've heard the North Korean economy has actually been doing fairly stable in recent times. They're having a sustained YoY 4% GDP growth. They're adapting to the reality of a long-term sanctions regime and making it work.
You don't develop nuclear weaponry and ICBM technology out of nothing. Even with help.
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On September 19 2017 21:59 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 21:49 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing. They do have the ICBMs for it though. I don't follow. ICBMs will not allow NK to take on other regional rivals, nor will they help in repelling an invasion from the US, should the US commit to one. Deterrence. If the US wishes to attack they will now do so knowing that there will be a nuclear counterattack, both on their invasion force and on their homeland. That's sufficiently powerful enough to be able to say that they can repel an invasion. Also, two of the four regional rivals of NK are great power nations. Not being on equal footing with them is understandable.
There's a difference between being able to repel an US invasion and making the US invasion too expensive to be attempted in the first place.
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On September 19 2017 22:05 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 21:48 Aveng3r wrote:On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing. I'm not arguing for/against sanctions, but in terms of military solutions, doing nothing is the only path that doesn't involve tens of millions of South Koreans dying, even if this does mean accepting MAD with NK. No people should have the right to make that decision except for the SK people themselves. Whats so absurd about this? They have quite a large military and nearly every penny they spend goes that way too. At the rate theyve developed their rocket program you dont think they could catch up in other areas as well? They have 21 million people, a limited ammount of territory for natural resources and a state run economy that as far as I can tell is not largely developed. No, they can't hope neither to project power or actually survive all out war. What they can do is make it expensive to do war against them.
Fine, fair point.
I actually begrudgingly have to admit that I think youre right about doing nothing, but MAN does it leave a bad taste in the mouth. You really wish someone could punch that little asshole right in the nose and tell him to knock it off.
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On September 19 2017 22:08 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 21:59 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 21:49 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing. They do have the ICBMs for it though. I don't follow. ICBMs will not allow NK to take on other regional rivals, nor will they help in repelling an invasion from the US, should the US commit to one. Deterrence. If the US wishes to attack they will now do so knowing that there will be a nuclear counterattack, both on their invasion force and on their homeland. That's sufficiently powerful enough to be able to say that they can repel an invasion. Also, two of the four regional rivals of NK are great power nations. Not being on equal footing with them is understandable. There's a difference between being able to repel an US invasion and making the US invasion too expensive to be attempted in the first place.
Ok, then let's just drop the pretenses and say that the US can nuke them. Because that's what your line of thinking goes to.
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On September 19 2017 22:13 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 22:08 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 21:59 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 21:49 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing. They do have the ICBMs for it though. I don't follow. ICBMs will not allow NK to take on other regional rivals, nor will they help in repelling an invasion from the US, should the US commit to one. Deterrence. If the US wishes to attack they will now do so knowing that there will be a nuclear counterattack, both on their invasion force and on their homeland. That's sufficiently powerful enough to be able to say that they can repel an invasion. Also, two of the four regional rivals of NK are great power nations. Not being on equal footing with them is understandable. There's a difference between being able to repel an US invasion and making the US invasion too expensive to be attempted in the first place. Ok, then let's just drop the pretenses and say that the US can nuke them. Because that's what your line of thinking goes to.
dude. Thats what your line of thinking may go to, but have you read his posts at all? Not even close to his point, I dont think
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On September 19 2017 22:13 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 22:08 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 21:59 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 21:49 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing. They do have the ICBMs for it though. I don't follow. ICBMs will not allow NK to take on other regional rivals, nor will they help in repelling an invasion from the US, should the US commit to one. Deterrence. If the US wishes to attack they will now do so knowing that there will be a nuclear counterattack, both on their invasion force and on their homeland. That's sufficiently powerful enough to be able to say that they can repel an invasion. Also, two of the four regional rivals of NK are great power nations. Not being on equal footing with them is understandable. There's a difference between being able to repel an US invasion and making the US invasion too expensive to be attempted in the first place. Ok, then let's just drop the pretenses and say that the US can nuke them. Because that's what your line of thinking goes to.
No it doesn't, it couldn't be further from where my line of thinking goes to and I have no idea how you got that.
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On September 19 2017 22:27 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 22:13 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 22:08 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 21:59 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 21:49 LegalLord wrote:On September 19 2017 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:On September 19 2017 19:48 micronesia wrote:On September 19 2017 12:50 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I hate the way the North treats its people (they are starving and barely have fuel for Winters). I believe sanctions/ military drills are not the way forward. There is a crazy 3rd road not discussed much when it comes to the North and that is to let them be, sure be ready for a potential attack as we must against even our allies, yet lift the sanctions, stop the military drills and change the focus to the health and wellbeing of the population of the nation that is North Korea.
I totally understand why you are making this recommendation given your personal situation and an attempt to let cooler heads prevail when discussing the situation on the Korean peninsula. There is also the fact that NK is being punished, in large part, by countries who are essentially saying "we are going to punish you for doing what we already do." On the other hand, NK has been in a (very reduced) state of war with its enemies since the 1950s. Your suggestion is essentially saying to allow the enemy to strengthen themselves. No only will they be able to decimate SK, but they will potentially gain the fighting force necessary to take on other regional rivals and repel invasion from the USA or others should NK become the aggressor again and invade SK or others. This is surely seen as unacceptable given the current leadership of NK. Countries that repeatedly claim that other countries are 'evil' and that they will eventually be destroyed (a couple of examples come to mind) don't have much a leg to stand on, before you even consider how they treat their own people, in my opinion. It's utterly absurd to suggest that given enough time NK will be able to take on other regional rivals or repel invasion from the US. The don't have the population or industrial capacity for such a thing. They do have the ICBMs for it though. I don't follow. ICBMs will not allow NK to take on other regional rivals, nor will they help in repelling an invasion from the US, should the US commit to one. Deterrence. If the US wishes to attack they will now do so knowing that there will be a nuclear counterattack, both on their invasion force and on their homeland. That's sufficiently powerful enough to be able to say that they can repel an invasion. Also, two of the four regional rivals of NK are great power nations. Not being on equal footing with them is understandable. There's a difference between being able to repel an US invasion and making the US invasion too expensive to be attempted in the first place. Ok, then let's just drop the pretenses and say that the US can nuke them. Because that's what your line of thinking goes to. No it doesn't, it couldn't be further from where my line of thinking goes to and I have no idea how you got that.
Doesn't it? You mention that they won't be able to stop a US invasion even with nukes because if the US is TRULY committed they could still do it. So why not cut out the middleman and allow the US to do the nuking?
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EPT
