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oGoZenob
Profile Joined December 2011
France1503 Posts
August 21 2015 17:45 GMT
#2801
sometimes I hope that north korea will do something so dumb that we wouldnt have a choice to just destroy that regime to oblivion in a day... The people have suffered enough
I like starcraft
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
August 21 2015 18:42 GMT
#2802
On August 22 2015 02:45 oGoZenob wrote:
sometimes I hope that north korea will do something so dumb that we wouldnt have a choice to just destroy that regime to oblivion in a day... The people have suffered enough

I keep thinking the same but then i think, what would the citizens be like, could South Korea "afford" to do so? I mean like others say it is hard to say what is going on in the country when we hardly know ourselves. We know it is the best place to live but some do believe in the regime. To cut them away from that so suddenly could cause issues.

I would love to see peace and them reunite to the extent of being border-less, keep the countries separate by all means, even run the countries with different governments. But not to the extent that it cuts itself off from the world.

One can dream. The war if it happened and "fixed" the problem would cause so much blood shed it would take a while for it to be called "worth it"
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
August 21 2015 18:45 GMT
#2803
On August 22 2015 02:45 oGoZenob wrote:
sometimes I hope that north korea will do something so dumb that we wouldnt have a choice to just destroy that regime to oblivion in a day... The people have suffered enough

Say we do. Who takes power and why?

Getting rid of Saddam was easy, but running Iraq in his stead was not.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
ImFromPortugal
Profile Joined April 2010
Portugal1368 Posts
August 21 2015 19:12 GMT
#2804
On August 22 2015 03:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2015 02:45 oGoZenob wrote:
sometimes I hope that north korea will do something so dumb that we wouldnt have a choice to just destroy that regime to oblivion in a day... The people have suffered enough

Say we do. Who takes power and why?

Getting rid of Saddam was easy, but running Iraq in his stead was not.



you mean destroying a country, imposing genocidal sanctions was easy but creating democracy was a different thing?
Yes im
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 21 2015 19:19 GMT
#2805
On August 22 2015 04:12 ImFromPortugal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2015 03:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On August 22 2015 02:45 oGoZenob wrote:
sometimes I hope that north korea will do something so dumb that we wouldnt have a choice to just destroy that regime to oblivion in a day... The people have suffered enough

Say we do. Who takes power and why?

Getting rid of Saddam was easy, but running Iraq in his stead was not.



you mean destroying a country, imposing genocidal sanctions was easy but creating democracy was a different thing?

One is way more stable than the other one. There is no right or wrong option with these regimes. There are just different versions of terrible options.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
August 21 2015 19:20 GMT
#2806
On August 22 2015 04:12 ImFromPortugal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2015 03:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On August 22 2015 02:45 oGoZenob wrote:
sometimes I hope that north korea will do something so dumb that we wouldnt have a choice to just destroy that regime to oblivion in a day... The people have suffered enough

Say we do. Who takes power and why?

Getting rid of Saddam was easy, but running Iraq in his stead was not.



you mean destroying a country, imposing genocidal sanctions was easy but creating democracy was a different thing?

Totally. You have a semi-decent casus belli, go in, and overthrow the government before Christmas. Having the status quo disrupted and having to rebuild the system from scratch while half the country realizes they still hate the other half and now there's nothing stopping them from doing anything about it is another story.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
ImFromPortugal
Profile Joined April 2010
Portugal1368 Posts
August 21 2015 19:44 GMT
#2807
I was talking about the first gulf war and the fact that you guys didn't do a thing to end the regime, even when some Iraqi factions wanted to end it and requested your help...instead you imposed crippling sanctions that destroyed the country, killed thousands of children and made the regime last for a decade more. Why wasn't the united states accused of terrorism when they first invaded IRAQ ? Even with reports stating that Kuwait was utilizing slant drilling techniques to steal Iraqis oil. Who pays for all of this? You with your tax money and the rest of the world with their blood ?
Yes im
ImFromPortugal
Profile Joined April 2010
Portugal1368 Posts
August 21 2015 19:48 GMT
#2808
On August 22 2015 04:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2015 04:12 ImFromPortugal wrote:
On August 22 2015 03:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On August 22 2015 02:45 oGoZenob wrote:
sometimes I hope that north korea will do something so dumb that we wouldnt have a choice to just destroy that regime to oblivion in a day... The people have suffered enough

Say we do. Who takes power and why?

Getting rid of Saddam was easy, but running Iraq in his stead was not.



you mean destroying a country, imposing genocidal sanctions was easy but creating democracy was a different thing?

Totally. You have a semi-decent casus belli, go in, and overthrow the government before Christmas. Having the status quo disrupted and having to rebuild the system from scratch while half the country realizes they still hate the other half and now there's nothing stopping them from doing anything about it is another story.


Those tensions were aggravated by the US actions... you first invaded disrupted the system then there was an insurgency and more radical factions appeared to fight against you. Things were stabilizing and you installed a puppet government that did nothing to ease the tensions and instead fractured the Iraqi society even more. (i'm talking about Maliki ofc) and thus IS gained a foothold on IRAQ and all the crap that is going on now is your fault.
Yes im
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 21 2015 19:50 GMT
#2809
On August 22 2015 04:44 ImFromPortugal wrote:
I was talking about the first gulf war and the fact that you guys didn't do a thing to end the regime, even when some Iraqi factions wanted to end it and requested your help...instead you imposed crippling sanctions that destroyed the country, killed thousands of children and made the regime last for a decade more. Why wasn't the united states accused of terrorism when they first invaded IRAQ ? Even with reports stating that Kuwait was utilizing slant drilling techniques to steal Iraqis oil. Who pays for all of this? You with your tax money and the rest of the world with their blood ?

We didn't invade Iraq in 1990. And even if Kuwait was using those drilling techniques, its not justification for an invasion. Sorry the UN and everyone else can't live up to your standards on how to deal with regimes like one in Iraq.

But you seem to be derailing the thread again.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ImFromPortugal
Profile Joined April 2010
Portugal1368 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-21 19:59:34
August 21 2015 19:57 GMT
#2810
On August 22 2015 04:50 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2015 04:44 ImFromPortugal wrote:
I was talking about the first gulf war and the fact that you guys didn't do a thing to end the regime, even when some Iraqi factions wanted to end it and requested your help...instead you imposed crippling sanctions that destroyed the country, killed thousands of children and made the regime last for a decade more. Why wasn't the united states accused of terrorism when they first invaded IRAQ ? Even with reports stating that Kuwait was utilizing slant drilling techniques to steal Iraqis oil. Who pays for all of this? You with your tax money and the rest of the world with their blood ?

We didn't invade Iraq in 1990. And even if Kuwait was using those drilling techniques, its not justification for an invasion. Sorry the UN and everyone else can't live up to your standards on how to deal with regimes like one in Iraq.

But you seem to be derailing the thread again.



A "coalition" did...yes killing infants and destroying a countries future is the best the UN and all the others can do.. congratulations.

It's not derailment we are talking about geopolitics and when discussing such topics its important to analyse past mistakes even if the truth hurts.

User was temp banned for this post.
Yes im
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 21 2015 20:01 GMT
#2811
Just as long as you found a way to feel superior to everyone else.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ImFromPortugal
Profile Joined April 2010
Portugal1368 Posts
August 21 2015 20:07 GMT
#2812
On August 22 2015 05:01 Plansix wrote:
Just as long as you found a way to feel superior to everyone else.


Superior ? I'm nothing, but history doesn't lie.
Yes im
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
August 21 2015 21:31 GMT
#2813
No idea what you're supposed to be arguing, I'm just explaining that creating a power vacuum is a dumb idea.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
sgtnoobkilla
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia249 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-22 06:37:23
August 22 2015 06:18 GMT
#2814
2 hours (AEST) left until the deadline passes.

Still not much info, but apparently 'high level talks' will be held at Panmunjom sometime either at 5PM or later:
(URGENT) Two Koreas to hold high-level talks at border village of Panmunjom: Cheong Wa Dae

Source

Update on this meeting:
(3rd LD) Koreas to hold high-level talks amid tensions: Cheong Wa Dae

(ATTN: UPDATES with details; CHANGES headline)

SEOUL, Aug. 22 (Yonhap) -- South and North Korea will hold high-level talks at the border village of Panmunjom later Saturday, Cheong Wa Dae said, in a move to try to defuse tensions on the Korean Peninsula.

South Korea's National Security Adviser Kim Kwan-jin and Unification Minister Hong Yong-pyo will meet with Kim Yang-gon, the top official in charge of South Korea affairs, and Hwang Pyong-so, director of the general political department of North Korea's military, at 6 p.m., said Kim Kyou-hyun, deputy chief of the presidential office of national security.

North Korea set 5 p.m. Saturday as the deadline for South Korea to halt anti-Pyongyang propaganda broadcasts along the heavily fortified border and dismantle all loudspeakers. The announcement of the meeting fell just two hours before this deadline.

The North threatened to launch "strong military action" if South Korea defies the ultimatum. North Korea also warned late Friday that it is prepared to engage in "all-out war."

Source

https://twitter.com/YonhapNews/status/634976446050467840?lang=en

In the mean time, evacuation orders have been given to citizens living near the border, and the ROKA have apparently changed their rules of engagement from firing warning shots at any KPA troops approaching the DMZ to shoot to kill.

On a less serious note since North Korea clocked themselves back 30 minutes, doesn't this mean the deadline is technically 5:30PM KST instead?
Don't play with your food unless it plays with you first.
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
August 22 2015 15:13 GMT
#2815
On August 22 2015 05:01 Plansix wrote:
Just as long as you found a way to feel superior to everyone else.

LOL!!! That's a good one.
dude bro.
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
August 22 2015 17:26 GMT
#2816
It's been a while tensions were so high.. I wonder if it will escalate. China would be a big question mark if war ensues..
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2500 Posts
August 22 2015 18:37 GMT
#2817
I don' t think China would support NK like they did 50 years ago. Things are drastically different and the chinese economy is everywhere at the moment. Russia will defentevly have a say in this as they have several economical agreements with NK. See the camps they have there.
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
August 22 2015 19:29 GMT
#2818
NK is just so tiresome to have to deal with. Lives may be lost in a war if NK actually follows up on its flaming rhetoric (which they never do), but at least it will bring an end to a painful dictatorship. I hope it all ends soon, for the people in both koreas.

Why would china protect an unstable dictatorship with technology from the 1950s? What possible value could they have to china. Maybe some "regional control" at best (if NK is even under their control), but I don't see how meaningful that is in the long-term scheme of things. Its not like the US is in the process of setting up missile sites aimed into China, their biggest and most important trading partner. Russia may protest a little but that's probably all it will do.
sgtnoobkilla
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia249 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-23 04:53:43
August 23 2015 04:49 GMT
#2819
Initial talks haven't gone well at all, and no agreement has been reached yet but both sides will be meeting again in a few hours time:

North and South Korea hold talks go into a second day

North and South Korea are to hold a second round of top-level talks on Sunday to defuse growing tension, officials from the South say.

The announcement was made after several hours of negotiations on Saturday.

Senior aides to the two countries' leaders met at the Panmunjom truce village on the border. North Korea had threatened "strong military action" if the South did not stop border loudspeaker broadcasts that had provoked a "semi-state of war".
The two sides have agreed to meet again on Sunday afternoon to "narrow down differences" as overnight talks were finally wound up after nearly 10 hours of negotiations.

[...]

Source

Evacuation Orders for Border Areas Lifted Partially

Evacuation orders for South Korean residents near the border with North Korea have been lifted in some areas as the two Koreas are set to resume high-level talks Sunday afternoon.

Incheon City said that the evacuation orders issued for five northwestern border islands in the Yellow Sea were all lifted as of 10 p.m. Saturday, allowing the evacuated residents to return home.

The city said that the order for Ganghwa Island was not lifted, but most of the residents returned home.

However, evacuation orders for Gyeonggi Province remain effective, with 37-hundred residents in Yeoncheon County, about 800 in Paju and some people in Gimpo staying at nearby shelters.

Source

In addition, the WATCHCON level has been raised from 3 to 2. With the increasing number of ROKA and U.S. units being sent to the border and the reports of the KPA doing the same, a lot is going to depend on the outcome of these talks this evening.
Don't play with your food unless it plays with you first.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
August 23 2015 05:10 GMT
#2820
Nothing's going to happen, it's the same old shit.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
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