|
On January 17 2013 07:56 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 01:52 hoby2000 wrote:On January 16 2013 17:37 Bahku wrote:On January 16 2013 17:28 hoby2000 wrote:On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote:
The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that? Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more. What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself. Slow down there cowboy, you're suggesting that drugs don't impair judgement. That's obviously not true. I'm not saying people shouldn't be responsible for their own actions, but don't pretend that marijuana doesn't affect behavior. I've been under the influence of a lot of drugs. Mushrooms impair my judgement. Alcohol impairs my judgement. Marijuana does not impair my judgement at all unless you're talking about the fact that I've smoked weed which changed how I viewed the world when I found out something that was supposed to be horrendously evil wasn't. I will honestly say that every other drug impairs my judgement, but if you really think Marijuana does, then you're probably just fucked up in the head to begin with. People who act different while they're drunk or stoned or around certain groups of people are afraid of being themselves, and only express themselves when they have something to blame externally. It's not the drugs that makes people crazy - it's people that make themselves crazy because they can't accept themselves or reality for what it is. Would you concede the fact that marijuana "alters" your judgement? What you are trying to tell us is that weed doesn't change how you think in any way and that's indicative of personal bias more than anything.
My 2 cents on this dicussion based on years of sporadic marijuana use (smoking everyday for months, not at all for months, every other week, every other day, ect; my habits differed a lot over the years based on many factors.)
- I see no connection with my overall quality of life and marijuana use
- I see no connection with motivation (in regards to studies, work, social life, sports/esports performance) with marijuana use. I am often struck by utter absence of motivation (and other symptoms of depression) but cannot see any correlation to marijuana use. I also associate 'laziness' to lack of motivation, and again I see no correlation to Marijuana use.
- I see no relationship between Marijuana and poor judgement; I cannot say I have poor decisions while using marijuana than in a sober phase.
- I see no link between my performance in sports (I mainly play soccer, heavy on the cardio, so there) and marijuana use; in fact I do enjoy running and working out much more whilst high.
- I see no withdrawal symptoms of marijuana other than trouble falling asleep the 1-3 days after repetitive evening use.
I spent 3 years with a girl who hated weed with a passion. Made me think about this a lot. I'd really think about my mood and life and try to relate it to smoking. And the years go by and I don't see the 'negative impacts' of marijuana like impaired judgement or laziness or that stuff. Ya sometimes I'm lazy and I procrastinate and maybe I could work harder in college, but it's not like I'm any different when I don't smoke for a long time. If I'm falling behind on my work and I get high and fall more behind, it's my own damn fault, I can't blame 'drug addiction' forcing me to get high. If I didn't have weed I would just not get high and still get nothing like I'm doing right now. Sometimes I'm just not motivated to work and sometimes I am, but when you sum it up I'm doing fine in life. It doesn't have anything to do with weed.
Idk why people say things like 'stop smoking weed you lazy bum' instead of 'stop being lazy.' If he wasn't lazy you wouldn't make any comment about his marijuana use, so maybe you should consider that it's not the problem.
|
Guys, discussing whether real marijuana is a healthy lifestyle choice has little relevance to the topic of synthetic herbal blends.
Obviously it is a consciousness-altering drug. I don't think it's neccessary to discuss that point.
|
On January 17 2013 09:24 almart wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 09:15 Bahku wrote:On January 17 2013 09:08 almart wrote:On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote:
The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe.
Natural /= good for you. That argument isn't really up in the forefront on why people argue for the legalization of Marijuana, there are many other reasons on why Marijuana should be a legal drug to be used. I agree that saying something is natural means it is beneficial for you, I just rarely hear it being used seriously. I think these designer drugs are just extremely ridiculous to use though because of the fact that there has been no scientific research on the long term effects and they are just plain dangerous. I was watching some more episodes of "Drugs Inc," and the comments section is packed full of people using that silly argument. It gets on my nerves. If you wanna argue that marijuana should be legal and is relatively harmless, you're on very concrete grounds. But once you throw in fallacious arguments like "it's a plant" or "it doesn't affect your judgement in any way," you just make marijuana supporters look bad. @Liberal: Should have posted your rant :p I would've read it. Yeah totally agree, both sides should really research what they are advocating for before they make themselves look like a fool. That goes for every argument anyways.
That's how I feel about drugs too, of all kinds. One should inform themselves of what they are putting into their body and what it will do to one's body. Just the fact that these gas station drugs that are largely untested and constantly change their formula is enough to be incredibly wary of them and probably stay away, since it's so hard to tell exactly what you are getting and nigh impossible to know the long term effects. The little that is known about them so far is mostly bad, so it's probably a good idea to stay away for now. Basically, I'm for drugs (they're everywhere in modern life now), but I'm against ignorance.
@Amityville Poison Ivy and Poison Sumac are actually related, poison sumac is the stronger, but less common cousin of poison ivy and poison oak, you'll get the same effects and rash from all of them though. I just chose poison sumac because it's also a plant (i.e. "natural") that is specifically known to be possibly fatal, if not just incredibly painful, when inhaled as smoke (imagine getting a poison ivy rash inside your lungs. worst case your lungs fill up and you drown in your own blood).
|
Wow, that chick who had multiple strokes from this stuff is enough to keep me the hell away from it. I'm normally down for some experimentation and moderate usage of drugs though.
Also, I think the OP sounds like he has substance abuse problems and he should deal with those. If you can't resist getting high it's time to get help.
|
On January 17 2013 10:05 TheFrankOne wrote:
Wow, that chick who had multiple strokes from this stuff is enough to keep me the hell away from it. I'm normally down for some experimentation and moderate usage of drugs though.
Also, I think the OP sounds like he has substance abuse problems and he should deal with those. If you can't resist getting high it's time to get help.
I'm being forced to quit through drug tests (homeless shelter that I'll be going to shortly and job) so I don't think it'll be a problem for me any more. It's kind of embarrassing that I managed to get addicted to weed lol, but I haven't smoked in a week and I've been staying away from spice as well. I think I'll be fine.
|
|
|
How exactly does the DEA have something right? You can still go into almost any gas station in America and buy this stuff while Marijuana remains illegal in 48 states.
|
i guess sardonic doesn't work too well in purely textual format..
|
Here's my experience with synthetic cannabis. I used it almost daily for about a year. I also have an addictive personality. First started with blends from my local tobacco store, then I moved on and found a reliable source online for the last month of usage that sold just the product by itself without it being sprayed onto leaf materiel. It looked either like tan or white powder.
Three times I had a panic attack from smoking too much, but never seizures or strokes. Some of the blends will give you a shortness of breath until you get used to it, which was kind of scary. The panic attacks that I had can be characterized having negative thoughts and my heart beating very fast. I thought how vulnerable we are as people, waiting to die any day to anything, so easily, I couldn't stop thinking about this until after 5-10 minutes when the initial rush of the high wore off. Also I wouldn't recommend getting drunk off your ass then smoking this stuff because it felt like it made me mysteriously tired and it felt like my body was suppressed. Those experiences were just as bad.
For the most part I enjoyed it and it would be awesome to smoke a hit or two then play a game of league of legends. That's what I miss most of it. I realized that the powder stuff was really potent and I didn't want to go through the whole stash. Also I noticed people can get very addicted to synthetic cannabis from what I saw on other forums, and I thought that by the time my stash of two grams was gone, I might slip into a physical addiction. Thanks to me putting my foot down, I have been clean for 4 months. I notice nothing different but I have a smokers cough because I think those blends that the product is sprayed onto plant leafs produce very harsh and thick smoke( I was also smoking out of a water pipe taking large hits.)
Definitely recommend real cannabis over this stuff. There are hundreds of tests on marijuana, which is always the same except for the strains. You're basically a lab rat if you are smoking this stuff on a daily basis. Good luck.
|
On January 17 2013 19:44 awezome wrote:
Here's my experience with synthetic cannabis. I used it almost daily for about a year. I also have an addictive personality. First started with blends from my local tobacco store, then I moved on and found a reliable source online for the last month of usage that sold just the product by itself without it being sprayed onto leaf materiel. It looked either like tan or white powder.
Three times I had a panic attack from smoking too much, but never seizures or strokes. Some of the blends will give you a shortness of breath until you get used to it, which was kind of scary. The panic attacks that I had can be characterized having negative thoughts and my heart beating very fast. I thought how vulnerable we are as people, waiting to die any day to anything, so easily, I couldn't stop thinking about this until after 5-10 minutes when the initial rush of the high wore off. Also I wouldn't recommend getting drunk off your ass then smoking this stuff because it felt like it made me mysteriously tired and it felt like my body was suppressed. Those experiences were just as bad.
For the most part I enjoyed it and it would be awesome to smoke a hit or two then play a game of league of legends. That's what I miss most of it. I realized that the powder stuff was really potent and I didn't want to go through the whole stash. Also I noticed people can get very addicted to synthetic cannabis from what I saw on other forums, and I thought that by the time my stash of two grams was gone, I might slip into a physical addiction. Thanks to me putting my foot down, I have been clean for 4 months. I notice nothing different but I have a smokers cough because I think those blends that the product is sprayed onto plant leafs produce very harsh and thick smoke( I was also smoking out of a water pipe taking large hits.)
Definitely recommend real cannabis over this stuff. There are hundreds of tests on marijuana, which is always the same except for the strains. You're basically a lab rat if you are smoking this stuff on a daily basis. Good luck.
yeah first time i smoked this stuff i smoked a little too much, had a pretty bad panic attack exactly like you described. Its incredibly potent
|
a few years ago when I first started smoking, I'd get the synthetic stuff because it was easier to get. but once weed is available there's no reason to choose synthetic over weed. One time I actually bought a few grams of JWH (018 i think) powder and mixed it with weed. that was the last time i'll ever use synthetic.
the extra paranoia it causes is just too much. and I started getting weird headaches while I was sober
|
On January 17 2013 09:06 Bahku wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote:
The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe.
Natural /= good for you. I hate it when people argue "it's a plant, not a drug." Ok. And cocaine is a powder, not a drug. And an ak-47 is a piece of metal, not a weapon. Since when are "plant" and "drug" mutually exclusive terms?
I differentiate between plants and drugs on these grounds: Drugs require human refinement. Plants grow naturally. Therefore, marijuana is a plant. Coca leaf is a plant. Opium poppies are plants. Cocaine is a drug. Heroin is a drug.
Does that help you understand a little?
|
On January 17 2013 09:45 Steel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 07:56 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On January 17 2013 01:52 hoby2000 wrote:On January 16 2013 17:37 Bahku wrote:On January 16 2013 17:28 hoby2000 wrote:On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote:
The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that? Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more. What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself. Slow down there cowboy, you're suggesting that drugs don't impair judgement. That's obviously not true. I'm not saying people shouldn't be responsible for their own actions, but don't pretend that marijuana doesn't affect behavior. I've been under the influence of a lot of drugs. Mushrooms impair my judgement. Alcohol impairs my judgement. Marijuana does not impair my judgement at all unless you're talking about the fact that I've smoked weed which changed how I viewed the world when I found out something that was supposed to be horrendously evil wasn't. I will honestly say that every other drug impairs my judgement, but if you really think Marijuana does, then you're probably just fucked up in the head to begin with. People who act different while they're drunk or stoned or around certain groups of people are afraid of being themselves, and only express themselves when they have something to blame externally. It's not the drugs that makes people crazy - it's people that make themselves crazy because they can't accept themselves or reality for what it is. Would you concede the fact that marijuana "alters" your judgement? What you are trying to tell us is that weed doesn't change how you think in any way and that's indicative of personal bias more than anything. My 2 cents on this dicussion based on years of sporadic marijuana use (smoking everyday for months, not at all for months, every other week, every other day, ect; my habits differed a lot over the years based on many factors.) - I see no connection with my overall quality of life and marijuana use - I see no connection with motivation (in regards to studies, work, social life, sports/esports performance) with marijuana use. I am often struck by utter absence of motivation (and other symptoms of depression) but cannot see any correlation to marijuana use. I also associate 'laziness' to lack of motivation, and again I see no correlation to Marijuana use. - I see no relationship between Marijuana and poor judgement; I cannot say I have poor decisions while using marijuana than in a sober phase. - I see no link between my performance in sports (I mainly play soccer, heavy on the cardio, so there) and marijuana use; in fact I do enjoy running and working out much more whilst high. - I see no withdrawal symptoms of marijuana other than trouble falling asleep the 1-3 days after repetitive evening use. I spent 3 years with a girl who hated weed with a passion. Made me think about this a lot. I'd really think about my mood and life and try to relate it to smoking. And the years go by and I don't see the 'negative impacts' of marijuana like impaired judgement or laziness or that stuff. Ya sometimes I'm lazy and I procrastinate and maybe I could work harder in college, but it's not like I'm any different when I don't smoke for a long time. If I'm falling behind on my work and I get high and fall more behind, it's my own damn fault, I can't blame 'drug addiction' forcing me to get high. If I didn't have weed I would just not get high and still get nothing like I'm doing right now. Sometimes I'm just not motivated to work and sometimes I am, but when you sum it up I'm doing fine in life. It doesn't have anything to do with weed. Idk why people say things like 'stop smoking weed you lazy bum' instead of 'stop being lazy.' If he wasn't lazy you wouldn't make any comment about his marijuana use, so maybe you should consider that it's not the problem.
I'm not saying that there is ANY problem at all. I'm just making it known that marijuana alters your judgement.
I smoked an ounce a week during college, trust me, I have no problem with weed and think that if everyone hit a blunt once or twice the world would be a better place. It would be a better place because weed alters your judgement.
|
On January 18 2013 05:08 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 09:06 Bahku wrote:On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote:
The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe.
Natural /= good for you. I hate it when people argue "it's a plant, not a drug." Ok. And cocaine is a powder, not a drug. And an ak-47 is a piece of metal, not a weapon. Since when are "plant" and "drug" mutually exclusive terms? I differentiate between plants and drugs on these grounds: Drugs require human refinement. Plants grow naturally. Therefore, marijuana is a plant. Coca leaf is a plant. Opium poppies are plants. Cocaine is a drug. Heroin is a drug. Does that help you understand a little?
"A drug is a substance which may have medicinal, intoxicating, performance enhancing or other effects when taken or put into a human body or the body of another animal and is not considered a food or exclusively a food."
You can use make up a definition to a word and pretend that it's the actual definition, but don't ever use that in an argument. I don't think any person would argue that psilocybe mushrooms are not a drug. Also, why does it matter if it's refined by humans? If we found a plant that naturally grew opium molecules, does that delete opium's status as a drug? If cannabis never existed on earth, and we found a way to manufacture the THC molecule, then you'd be against it because it's a drug?
When I roll up a joint, I'm doing it to get high. If I inject heroine, I'm doing it to get high. One is more dangerous than the other, but they're both drugs. I don't see how the source makes any difference.
|
On January 16 2013 17:28 hoby2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote:
The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that? Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more. What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
* was lazy asshole
Now well adjusted citizen 
|
On January 18 2013 12:35 Bahku wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 05:08 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On January 17 2013 09:06 Bahku wrote:On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote:
The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe.
Natural /= good for you. I hate it when people argue "it's a plant, not a drug." Ok. And cocaine is a powder, not a drug. And an ak-47 is a piece of metal, not a weapon. Since when are "plant" and "drug" mutually exclusive terms? I differentiate between plants and drugs on these grounds: Drugs require human refinement. Plants grow naturally. Therefore, marijuana is a plant. Coca leaf is a plant. Opium poppies are plants. Cocaine is a drug. Heroin is a drug. Does that help you understand a little? "A drug is a substance which may have medicinal, intoxicating, performance enhancing or other effects when taken or put into a human body or the body of another animal and is not considered a food or exclusively a food." You can use make up a definition to a word and pretend that it's the actual definition, but don't ever use that in an argument. I don't think any person would argue that psilocybe mushrooms are not a drug. Also, why does it matter if it's refined by humans? If we found a plant that naturally grew opium molecules, does that delete opium's status as a drug? If cannabis never existed on earth, and we found a way to manufacture the THC molecule, then you'd be against it because it's a drug? When I roll up a joint, I'm doing it to get high. If I inject heroine, I'm doing it to get high. One is more dangerous than the other, but they're both drugs. I don't see how the source makes any difference.
There is a plant that naturally grows opium molecules. It's called an opium poppy. You probably don't understand enough about what I'm saying to really get my point.
What I'm saying is that, using your example, a psilocybe cubensis is a mushroom. It contains psilocin and psilocybin, which are drugs. That does not change the mushroom into a drug, it's just a container for a molecule which we extract and define as a drug. Tea leaves contain caffeine. That does not make a tea leaf a drug. It's still a leaf. If you extract and refine the caffeine into a powder, then, yeah, that's a drug. Tea leaves are not drugs.
I'm not against drugs. I fucking love drugs. I'm against uneducated prejudices, and that's why we're having this argument.
[edit] Also, it's "heroin", not "heroine". [/edit]
|
On January 20 2013 19:34 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 12:35 Bahku wrote:On January 18 2013 05:08 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On January 17 2013 09:06 Bahku wrote:On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote:
The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe.
Natural /= good for you. I hate it when people argue "it's a plant, not a drug." Ok. And cocaine is a powder, not a drug. And an ak-47 is a piece of metal, not a weapon. Since when are "plant" and "drug" mutually exclusive terms? I differentiate between plants and drugs on these grounds: Drugs require human refinement. Plants grow naturally. Therefore, marijuana is a plant. Coca leaf is a plant. Opium poppies are plants. Cocaine is a drug. Heroin is a drug. Does that help you understand a little? "A drug is a substance which may have medicinal, intoxicating, performance enhancing or other effects when taken or put into a human body or the body of another animal and is not considered a food or exclusively a food." You can use make up a definition to a word and pretend that it's the actual definition, but don't ever use that in an argument. I don't think any person would argue that psilocybe mushrooms are not a drug. Also, why does it matter if it's refined by humans? If we found a plant that naturally grew opium molecules, does that delete opium's status as a drug? If cannabis never existed on earth, and we found a way to manufacture the THC molecule, then you'd be against it because it's a drug? When I roll up a joint, I'm doing it to get high. If I inject heroine, I'm doing it to get high. One is more dangerous than the other, but they're both drugs. I don't see how the source makes any difference. There is a plant that naturally grows opium molecules. It's called an opium poppy. You probably don't understand enough about what I'm saying to really get my point. What I'm saying is that, using your example, a psilocybe cubensis is a mushroom. It contains psilocin and psilocybin, which are drugs. That does not change the mushroom into a drug, it's just a container for a molecule which we extract and define as a drug. Tea leaves contain caffeine. That does not make a tea leaf a drug. It's still a leaf. If you extract and refine the caffeine into a powder, then, yeah, that's a drug. Tea leaves are not drugs. I'm not against drugs. I fucking love drugs. I'm against uneducated prejudices, and that's why we're having this argument. [edit] Also, it's "heroin", not "heroine". [/edit]
Isn't that just arguing semantics though? Saying that the plant/fungus itself is not a drug it just contains drugs, that is, and it also depends on what definition you look at anyway. When you eat a psilocybin mushroom, you are primarily taking a drug, and only by accessory ingesting the fungal matter it is contained in. Nobody claims that eating a pot brownie or drinking alcohol(which is never 100%) isn't taking drugs, just because what you are ingesting happens to have more than just the unadulterated molecule defined as a drug, even pills you get from the doctor have filler in addition to the active drug ingredient. The plant/fungus/whatever may technically only be the container for the drug, but in a practical sense, what the drug happens to be contained in(be it a plant or a pill or water for alcohol) is a moot point.
|
It's not, though, because the effects that you get from chewing on a coca leaf and snorting cocaine up your nose are totally different. Dosage is a HUGE part of the experience of any psychoactive substance.
|
On January 20 2013 20:26 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
It's not, though, because the effects that you get from chewing on a coca leaf and snorting cocaine up your nose are totally different. Dosage is a HUGE part of the experience of any psychoactive substance.
All drugs can effect people differently. Dosage changes the experience, but dosage itself is a limit. If you do to much you die, to little you feel nothing, apply the laws ;D
|
honestly, who the fuck cares. that is one of the most pointless arguments i have ever seen.
drug is one of the most abused words in the english language. in almost every context i hear it used it, there is a less general word that should have been used. right or wrong (generally wrong), everybody seems to have their own definition of what a 'drug' is and associations attached to it. which is maybe how politicians have managed to baselessly resist research for so long.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
