My peers and I have used these compounds more than I'd like to admit, almost always as a result of mandatory drug tests. I know this shit is horrible for the user but I just tried some again after being forced into another drug testing program. I'm not gonna lie I'm fairly addicted to marijuana, it's hard for me to resist going to the gas station with $3 and getting high for a day off this shit.
Any other experiences? I've heard a few horror stories about people using it, and it's known to be extremely unhealthy. This isn't necessarily a "spice is bad" thread (it is), but just a general synthetic marijuana discussion.
EDIT: RHGaming has asked me to include this informative video
I think calling it "synthetic cannabis" is misleading. There are synthetic drugs that are supposed to mimic the effects of cannabis, which I'm assuming you are talking about, but they are not cannabis and do not contain THC.
Also, if you want to talk about the effects or dangers of them, you should maybe list some specific drugs that you are talking about.
On January 16 2013 14:37 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Have you considered drinking alcohol?
[image]http://i45.tinypic.com/219z2fd.gif[/image] Best idea I've heard all day
On January 16 2013 14:39 Alphonsse wrote: I think calling it "synthetic cannabis" is misleading. There are synthetic drugs that are supposed to mimic the effects of cannabis, which I'm assuming you are talking about, but they are not cannabis and do not contain THC.
Also, if you want to talk about the effects or dangers of them, you should maybe list some specific drugs that you are talking about.
Yes, but "synthetic cannabis" is just the most common name for these substances. I could perhaps list all of their chemical formulas but I don't think it would fit in a topic title.
I don't necessarily want to talk about their effects or dangers, or how bad they are. I just want a discussion and to see how other TL'ers feel about these gas station narcotics.
The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
From what I know, there are no tests for the LEGAL blends. Last time I was on TASC they gave us shit about how spice shows up in tests now. I kept using knowing that they were full of shit and they were. The blends that become illegal have tests made for them, then new substances come around the corner with a different name and a different chemical structure and it starts all over again.
The employees at a smoke shop won't let you call it "spice," because spice is illegal. No, no, it's "pot pourri" now.
I've listened do an episode of a show with Dr.Drew, a man called in with the question about taking synthetic marijuana to pass a drug test at work, complained about headaches, weakness he started experiencing after he began taking it. Basically Drew said that it was far more dangerous than real pot and recommended treatment and generally to stay away from that stuff.
I just want a discussion and to see how other TL'ers feel about these gas station narcotics.
Well, my godfather was doing synthetic marijuana while he was with his family in korea not long ago and he had some sort of episode where he went crazy and attacked a cop. He's a black belt. Six of them dogpiled him before he went down and he got arrested.
I couldn't figure out wtf could have gotten into him until I looked this stuff up on wikipedia.
Studies are currently available which suggest an association between synthetic cannabinoids and psychosis. Physicians should be aware that the use of synthetic cannabinoids can be associated with psychosis and investigate possible use of synthetic cannabinoids in patients with inexplicable psychotic symptoms.[38]
So, that's how I feel about it. lol. They're a really bad idea!
I tried JWH-018 a couple times after doing some research into it. I know some people call that stupid but I knew a couple uses wouldn't kill me or drive me insane. These synthetic cannabinoids are full agonists of the CB1/CB2 receptors, whereas natural THC is only a partial agonist. This means it is possible to "overdose" in a way with synthetics which is not possible with weed, which is what has caused the few horror stories I'm assuming. So I only tried a small amount.
The short term effects were very similar to weed, indistinguishable really. But I didn't quite feel right a couple days later, I sort of woke up with a panic attack once, not sure if it is related. More recent research has suggested it is more likely to induce psychosis than regular weed, and given my experience I would agree this is quite likely.
I'd advise people to stay away from it for the most part.
Yeah we used to be able to buy that shit from the gas station, but I think it was banned on the first day of 2012 here in TN. I've had many different types, a few of them were extremely close to marijuana, and a few would induce crazy paranoia, feelings of dying, etc. Eventually came to the conclusion that I was better off smoking pot, then to the conclusion I was better off not doing either one. lol
I tried spice when I was in high school (all my friends were on probation and getting tested except for me, lol), it didn't work for me at all. I don't know if they've made advances in the 4-5 years since I've tried it, but I thought it was a complete waste of money and time. I just felt tired and shitty, though my friends said they got high.
It is terrible for you and can be physically addictive, where as pot isn't. This is just something cooked up in a factory compared to pot which is a natural.
I had the same problem of drug tests at work and thought i would try this stuff. It's just people cooking up poison to make a quick buck. Stay away!
Bath salts bro... It's just like bath salts... From what I've gathered, unless you wanna go off eating some person's face, all zombie crazy mode, stay away from that synthetic shit!
i was addicted to it for seven months... couldn't go 30 minutes without another bowl and the first thing i'd do when i woke up was take a hit... stuff is awful. took me to my rock bottom. lost my friends, my house, and had to move back home to get away from it. i was spending about $120 a week on it.
and yet every time i go to a head shop i make sure i have enough money in my pocket to buy some if they happen to sell it. even though i know it ruined my life, the feeling is so powerful and gripping that i can't say no to it. spice is no joke. im almost sweating just typing about it.
On January 16 2013 15:47 sertman wrote: i was addicted to it for seven months... couldn't go 30 minutes without another bowl and the first thing i'd do when i woke up was take a hit... stuff is awful. took me to my rock bottom. lost my friends, my house, and had to move back home to get away from it. i was spending about $120 a week on it.
and yet every time i go to a head shop i make sure i have enough money in my pocket to buy some if they happen to sell it. even though i know it ruined my life, the feeling is so powerful and gripping that i can't say no to it. spice is no joke. im almost sweating just typing about it.
Damn. I know the feeling. I've had countless times where I've used it, felt like I was going to die, freaked out about how I'm destroying my awesome brain, and vowed never to do it again.
Then 15 minutes later, HAAAY LETS LOAD ANOTHER BOWL
It's not even that pleasurable, if I'm gonna do something this addictive I might as well just get some meth.
Jeez, hopefully I can just get a medical MJ card so that I don't have to bother with this any more. Congratulations to the war on marijuana, your drug tests are doing a fine job keeping people from using natural pot >.<
Just for context though I haven't used any in 24 hours and I don't plan on getting any more. But I say that every time I finish a canister. Sigh.
On January 16 2013 15:47 sertman wrote: i was addicted to it for seven months... couldn't go 30 minutes without another bowl and the first thing i'd do when i woke up was take a hit... stuff is awful. took me to my rock bottom. lost my friends, my house, and had to move back home to get away from it. i was spending about $120 a week on it.
and yet every time i go to a head shop i make sure i have enough money in my pocket to buy some if they happen to sell it. even though i know it ruined my life, the feeling is so powerful and gripping that i can't say no to it. spice is no joke. im almost sweating just typing about it.
Damn. I know the feeling. I've had countless times where I've used it, felt like I was going to die, freaked out about how I'm destroying my awesome brain, and vowed never to do it again.
Then 15 minutes later, HAAAY LETS LOAD ANOTHER BOWL
It's not even that pleasurable, if I'm gonna do something this addictive I might as well just get some meth.
Jeez, hopefully I can just get a medical MJ card so that I don't have to bother with this any more. Congratulations to the war on marijuana, your drug tests are doing a fine job keeping people from using natural pot >.<
Just for context though I haven't used any in 24 hours and I don't plan on getting any more. But I say that every time I finish a canister. Sigh.
Just do other things to keep you preoccupied. Exercise, think about eating healthy and remind yourself how terrible fake weed is for you.
On January 16 2013 15:47 sertman wrote: i was addicted to it for seven months... couldn't go 30 minutes without another bowl and the first thing i'd do when i woke up was take a hit... stuff is awful. took me to my rock bottom. lost my friends, my house, and had to move back home to get away from it. i was spending about $120 a week on it.
and yet every time i go to a head shop i make sure i have enough money in my pocket to buy some if they happen to sell it. even though i know it ruined my life, the feeling is so powerful and gripping that i can't say no to it. spice is no joke. im almost sweating just typing about it.
Damn. I know the feeling. I've had countless times where I've used it, felt like I was going to die, freaked out about how I'm destroying my awesome brain, and vowed never to do it again.
Then 15 minutes later, HAAAY LETS LOAD ANOTHER BOWL
It's not even that pleasurable, if I'm gonna do something this addictive I might as well just get some meth.
Jeez, hopefully I can just get a medical MJ card so that I don't have to bother with this any more. Congratulations to the war on marijuana, your drug tests are doing a fine job keeping people from using natural pot >.<
Just for context though I haven't used any in 24 hours and I don't plan on getting any more. But I say that every time I finish a canister. Sigh.
Just do other things to keep you preoccupied. Exercise, think about eating healthy and remind yourself how terrible fake weed is for you.
Yeah that should help. Actually last time I was doing this stuff, I walked halfway to the store, thought about the feeling I had the previous time I'd purchased some, and actually turned around and went home. Was pretty proud of my self for not being a complete retard for once.
It's a bit harder now though, because I'm in a position where I have nothing to do but sit on the computer for about a week. I think I'll manage though :x
i'm surprised that any of them are legal. in australia, all analogues of all psychoactive drugs are theoretically illegal before even being discovered.
is this just purely to dodge drug tests that test for THC?
never heard of anybody coming across this stuff where i live. wikipedia time.
On January 16 2013 15:47 sertman wrote: i was addicted to it for seven months... couldn't go 30 minutes without another bowl and the first thing i'd do when i woke up was take a hit... stuff is awful. took me to my rock bottom. lost my friends, my house, and had to move back home to get away from it. i was spending about $120 a week on it.
and yet every time i go to a head shop i make sure i have enough money in my pocket to buy some if they happen to sell it. even though i know it ruined my life, the feeling is so powerful and gripping that i can't say no to it. spice is no joke. im almost sweating just typing about it.
Damn. I know the feeling. I've had countless times where I've used it, felt like I was going to die, freaked out about how I'm destroying my awesome brain, and vowed never to do it again.
Then 15 minutes later, HAAAY LETS LOAD ANOTHER BOWL
It's not even that pleasurable, if I'm gonna do something this addictive I might as well just get some meth.
Jeez, hopefully I can just get a medical MJ card so that I don't have to bother with this any more. Congratulations to the war on marijuana, your drug tests are doing a fine job keeping people from using natural pot >.<
Just for context though I haven't used any in 24 hours and I don't plan on getting any more. But I say that every time I finish a canister. Sigh.
Just do other things to keep you preoccupied. Exercise, think about eating healthy and remind yourself how terrible fake weed is for you.
the comedown is fucking awful from spice. a spice high takes your temple and grips it like crazy... you're perfectly content to just sit there and feel the feeling. the way i describe it compared to weed is that weed takes you to the clouds on a balloon. spice basically flips on a switch that says "you're extremely high now." it doesn't feel natural, it feels fake and because of that feels better.
however what goes up must come down. the comedown from spice feels like the most excruciating painful boredom you've ever had in your life and it gets worse and worse the longer you use spice. you know how when you're bored, it feels like your temple is expanding? (which is why people when they're bored rest their chin on the palms of their hands and push inward on their temple with their fingertips) it's that times 10. you feel every second. and you just develop a nasty craving for more. i used to take apart my keyboard just to find crumbs that had gotten to the bottom. we're talking seriously pathetic behavior here. and yet i STILL think about buying some off the internet every few days or so, even though i'm back in school, acing classes, and generally living a much more highly functional, happy life. i know all the consequences but i'd love to take one more ride.
so it's not simple as do other things, you don't have the presence of mind to do anything else but get more spice.
at least that's my experience, maybe other people have had less intense experiences.
I would definitely warn against smoking "spice". I smoked it pretty regularly for a couple months, it started giving me some of the worst trips of my life. They can really fuck with your mind after a while.
On January 16 2013 15:47 sertman wrote: i was addicted to it for seven months... couldn't go 30 minutes without another bowl and the first thing i'd do when i woke up was take a hit... stuff is awful. took me to my rock bottom. lost my friends, my house, and had to move back home to get away from it. i was spending about $120 a week on it.
and yet every time i go to a head shop i make sure i have enough money in my pocket to buy some if they happen to sell it. even though i know it ruined my life, the feeling is so powerful and gripping that i can't say no to it. spice is no joke. im almost sweating just typing about it.
Damn. I know the feeling. I've had countless times where I've used it, felt like I was going to die, freaked out about how I'm destroying my awesome brain, and vowed never to do it again.
Then 15 minutes later, HAAAY LETS LOAD ANOTHER BOWL
It's not even that pleasurable, if I'm gonna do something this addictive I might as well just get some meth.
Jeez, hopefully I can just get a medical MJ card so that I don't have to bother with this any more. Congratulations to the war on marijuana, your drug tests are doing a fine job keeping people from using natural pot >.<
Just for context though I haven't used any in 24 hours and I don't plan on getting any more. But I say that every time I finish a canister. Sigh.
Just do other things to keep you preoccupied. Exercise, think about eating healthy and remind yourself how terrible fake weed is for you.
the comedown is fucking awful from spice. a spice high takes your temple and grips it like crazy... you're perfectly content to just sit there and feel the feeling. the way i describe it compared to weed is that weed takes you to the clouds on a balloon. spice basically flips on a switch that says "you're extremely high now." it doesn't feel natural, it feels fake and because of that feels better.
however what must come up must come down. the comedown from spice feels like the most excruciating painful boredom you've ever had in your life and it gets worse and worse the longer you use spice. you know how when you're bored, it feels like your temple is expanding? (which is why people when they're bored rest their chin on the palms of their hands and push inward on their temple with their fingertips) it's that times 10. you feel every second. and you just develop a nasty craving for more. i used to take apart my keyboard just to find crumbs that had gotten to the bottom. we're talking seriously pathetic behavior here. and yet i STILL think about buying some off the internet every few days or so, even though i'm back in school, acing classes, and generally living a much more highly functional, happy life. i know all the consequences but i'd love to take one more ride.
so it's not simple as do other things, you don't have the presence of mind to do anything else but get more spice.
at least that's my experience, maybe other people have had less intense experiences.
On January 16 2013 16:04 anycolourfloyd wrote: i'm surprised that any of them are legal. in australia, all analogues of all psychoactive drugs are theoretically illegal before even being discovered.
is this just purely to dodge drug tests that test for THC?
never heard of anybody coming across this stuff where i live. wikipedia time.
That's interesting that there exists such a policy, in the U.S. they're trying to make it illegal whenever it pops up, but it just takes way too long. I don't see why they can't have a similar system to yours.
Spice is really used for three reasons: drug tests, it's way cheaper than weed (like 1% of the price if we're talking expensive weed), and if you can't get ahold of a dealer. I've used it for all three reasons, but the only thing that's caused me (and people I know) to binge constantly on it is the threat of drug tests.
On January 16 2013 15:47 sertman wrote: i was addicted to it for seven months... couldn't go 30 minutes without another bowl and the first thing i'd do when i woke up was take a hit... stuff is awful. took me to my rock bottom. lost my friends, my house, and had to move back home to get away from it. i was spending about $120 a week on it.
and yet every time i go to a head shop i make sure i have enough money in my pocket to buy some if they happen to sell it. even though i know it ruined my life, the feeling is so powerful and gripping that i can't say no to it. spice is no joke. im almost sweating just typing about it.
Damn. I know the feeling. I've had countless times where I've used it, felt like I was going to die, freaked out about how I'm destroying my awesome brain, and vowed never to do it again.
Then 15 minutes later, HAAAY LETS LOAD ANOTHER BOWL
It's not even that pleasurable, if I'm gonna do something this addictive I might as well just get some meth.
Jeez, hopefully I can just get a medical MJ card so that I don't have to bother with this any more. Congratulations to the war on marijuana, your drug tests are doing a fine job keeping people from using natural pot >.<
Just for context though I haven't used any in 24 hours and I don't plan on getting any more. But I say that every time I finish a canister. Sigh.
Just do other things to keep you preoccupied. Exercise, think about eating healthy and remind yourself how terrible fake weed is for you.
i used to take apart my keyboard just to find crumbs that had gotten to the bottom. we're talking seriously pathetic behavior here.
I lol'd out loud reading this. Because just the other day I lifted up my keyboard and swept up all the black shit underneath it (most was spice resin from putting a joint there) and put it in a bowl. So gross.
Damn, shit must have changed since I tried it (or the brand I was using was shitty), from the accounts I'm reading here. I had 5 friends that were smoking spice consistently for six months, and all of them stopped immediately once they were off of testing, and didn't have any adverse side effects while they were using or when they stopped... does anyone know if they've changed their formula or anything in the past few years? The time I tried it was early 2007, I think the brand was Spice Gold or Platinum or something like that. It came in little shiny bags, and there was this eye-type logo on it.
On January 16 2013 16:04 anycolourfloyd wrote: i'm surprised that any of them are legal. in australia, all analogues of all psychoactive drugs are theoretically illegal before even being discovered.
is this just purely to dodge drug tests that test for THC?
never heard of anybody coming across this stuff where i live. wikipedia time.
The government bans them and then a few weeks later the companies concoct a new compound and sell it until they ban the new version.
I tried it before because I was out of weed and I didn't like it at all. It was really intense and seemed far to unpredictable considering how different some people react to it. I know synthetics in my area have pretty much died out because of new laws that were put in place.
One other legal high was from kratom. Its a herb from asia that some people thinks helps with opium withdraw. My one local head shop owner is all about the stuff and is always trying different herbal combinations. He was always against the use of synthetics and would never sell them in his store.
On January 16 2013 16:09 corpuscle wrote: Damn, shit must have changed since I tried it (or the brand I was using was shitty), from the accounts I'm reading here. I had 5 friends that were smoking spice consistently for six months, and all of them stopped immediately once they were off of testing, and didn't have any adverse side effects while they were using or when they stopped... does anyone know if they've changed their formula or anything in the past few years? The time I tried it was early 2007, I think the brand was Spice Gold or Platinum or something like that. It came in little shiny bags, and there was this eye-type logo on it.
That's very true. Even when I've been using it daily, as soon as drug testing ended it's very easy to drop it and just start smoking weed again. Your body can probably tell the difference and it maybe somewhat wants spice instead, but for some reason it's way easier to shrug it off if you have some herbs.
It's probably because, like Sertman said, the need to do more feels like unbearable boredom. But actual marijuana helps get rid of that symptom and go about your business.
Do yourself a favor and don't mess with that stuff. I used it for a year (various analogues) to dodge drug tests from my job. My cousin and I would smoke it all day long. Smoking just a tiny bit too much makes you feel like death is creeping in and maybe it was. He finally stopped after smoking it for 2 years, he has heart problems now. It can damage your cardiovascular system and your kidneys. There is no over sight what so ever to ensure the chems are pure. You can seriously fuck yourself up. It took me almost a whole year to feel normal and my cousin still shows signs of obvious brain damage.
God knows what smoking that shit does to your lungs, cancer of the lungs from smoking it is a real possibility. It's garbage and I wouldn't wish that addiction on an enemy. Not to mention with every ban comes a new compound which is usually more dangerous than the last. It also ruins natural marijuana highs, weed won't ever be the same for you and will probably be uncomfortable.
On January 16 2013 16:09 corpuscle wrote: Damn, shit must have changed since I tried it (or the brand I was using was shitty), from the accounts I'm reading here. I had 5 friends that were smoking spice consistently for six months, and all of them stopped immediately once they were off of testing, and didn't have any adverse side effects while they were using or when they stopped... does anyone know if they've changed their formula or anything in the past few years? The time I tried it was early 2007, I think the brand was Spice Gold or Platinum or something like that. It came in little shiny bags, and there was this eye-type logo on it.
That's very true. Even when I've been using it daily, as soon as drug testing ended it's very easy to drop it and just start smoking weed again. Your body can probably tell the difference and it maybe somewhat wants spice instead, but for some reason it's way easier to shrug it off if you have some herbs.
It's probably because, like Sertman said, the need to do more feels like unbearable boredom. But actual marijuana helps get rid of that symptom and go about your business.
Although it may help, i'm not sure if taking one drug to break from another is the best option.
I think i smoked a J laced with this one time. I know i got to going down the road and started hallucinating and tripping balls, all my friends that smoke the "legal weed" all hallucinate off of it.
After that i quit smoking pot for good, id take an entire night of throwing up from drinking that going back to hallucinating again.
On January 16 2013 16:09 corpuscle wrote: Damn, shit must have changed since I tried it (or the brand I was using was shitty), from the accounts I'm reading here. I had 5 friends that were smoking spice consistently for six months, and all of them stopped immediately once they were off of testing, and didn't have any adverse side effects while they were using or when they stopped... does anyone know if they've changed their formula or anything in the past few years? The time I tried it was early 2007, I think the brand was Spice Gold or Platinum or something like that. It came in little shiny bags, and there was this eye-type logo on it.
That's very true. Even when I've been using it daily, as soon as drug testing ended it's very easy to drop it and just start smoking weed again. Your body can probably tell the difference and it maybe somewhat wants spice instead, but for some reason it's way easier to shrug it off if you have some herbs.
It's probably because, like Sertman said, the need to do more feels like unbearable boredom. But actual marijuana helps get rid of that symptom and go about your business.
Although it may help, i'm not sure if taking one drug to break from another is the best option.
Absolutely, I do want to quit using marijuana eventually.
But I want to do it ON MY OWN. Maybe where I can gradually decrease usage until I'm happy with it or stop completely. Being forced to quit immediately probably has something to do with the spice canisters littered all over the sidewalks and streets.
Regardless, hopefully I can just use this as an opportunity to quit both completely. I don't ever really want to quit weed 100%, but I'd love to learn to use it sparingly and wisely.
On January 16 2013 16:09 corpuscle wrote: Damn, shit must have changed since I tried it (or the brand I was using was shitty), from the accounts I'm reading here. I had 5 friends that were smoking spice consistently for six months, and all of them stopped immediately once they were off of testing, and didn't have any adverse side effects while they were using or when they stopped... does anyone know if they've changed their formula or anything in the past few years? The time I tried it was early 2007, I think the brand was Spice Gold or Platinum or something like that. It came in little shiny bags, and there was this eye-type logo on it.
That's very true. Even when I've been using it daily, as soon as drug testing ended it's very easy to drop it and just start smoking weed again. Your body can probably tell the difference and it maybe somewhat wants spice instead, but for some reason it's way easier to shrug it off if you have some herbs.
It's probably because, like Sertman said, the need to do more feels like unbearable boredom. But actual marijuana helps get rid of that symptom and go about your business.
Although it may help, i'm not sure if taking one drug to break from another is the best option.
Absolutely, I do want to quit using marijuana eventually.
But I want to do it ON MY OWN. Maybe where I can gradually decrease usage until I'm happy with it or stop completely. Being forced to quit immediately probably has something to do with the spice canisters littered all over the sidewalks and streets.
Regardless, hopefully I can just use this as an opportunity to quit both completely. I don't ever really want to quit weed 100%, but I'd love to learn to use it sparingly and wisely.
you can get there. even though i had a very intense addiction to spice i've now moved to a point in my life where i can use weed sparingly without being addicted to it. it wasn't really a learning process, more of a natural change of priorities when i went back to school and adopting a different way of picturing myself.
in order to do that though i had to move completely away from where i was living before... after getting kicked off my lease i moved back in with my parents 6 hours and several states away. it's illegal in my state now so nobody sells it but i still look around every gas station i'm in to see if they sell it lol. i don't even do it consciously, it's an instinct deep within my mind.
On January 16 2013 16:09 corpuscle wrote: Damn, shit must have changed since I tried it (or the brand I was using was shitty), from the accounts I'm reading here. I had 5 friends that were smoking spice consistently for six months, and all of them stopped immediately once they were off of testing, and didn't have any adverse side effects while they were using or when they stopped... does anyone know if they've changed their formula or anything in the past few years? The time I tried it was early 2007, I think the brand was Spice Gold or Platinum or something like that. It came in little shiny bags, and there was this eye-type logo on it.
That's very true. Even when I've been using it daily, as soon as drug testing ended it's very easy to drop it and just start smoking weed again. Your body can probably tell the difference and it maybe somewhat wants spice instead, but for some reason it's way easier to shrug it off if you have some herbs.
It's probably because, like Sertman said, the need to do more feels like unbearable boredom. But actual marijuana helps get rid of that symptom and go about your business.
Although it may help, i'm not sure if taking one drug to break from another is the best option.
Absolutely, I do want to quit using marijuana eventually.
But I want to do it ON MY OWN. Maybe where I can gradually decrease usage until I'm happy with it or stop completely. Being forced to quit immediately probably has something to do with the spice canisters littered all over the sidewalks and streets.
Regardless, hopefully I can just use this as an opportunity to quit both completely. I don't ever really want to quit weed 100%, but I'd love to learn to use it sparingly and wisely.
As someone who "quit" about a year ago (I still smoke, but it's something like once every 2-3 months), it's definitely worth it, and you should really try whenever you're in a place where you're ready. Weed is good in the sense that it doesn't have any significant withdrawal effects, so the only things you have to struggle through when quitting is the psychological stuff.
On January 16 2013 16:09 corpuscle wrote: Damn, shit must have changed since I tried it (or the brand I was using was shitty), from the accounts I'm reading here. I had 5 friends that were smoking spice consistently for six months, and all of them stopped immediately once they were off of testing, and didn't have any adverse side effects while they were using or when they stopped... does anyone know if they've changed their formula or anything in the past few years? The time I tried it was early 2007, I think the brand was Spice Gold or Platinum or something like that. It came in little shiny bags, and there was this eye-type logo on it.
That's very true. Even when I've been using it daily, as soon as drug testing ended it's very easy to drop it and just start smoking weed again. Your body can probably tell the difference and it maybe somewhat wants spice instead, but for some reason it's way easier to shrug it off if you have some herbs.
It's probably because, like Sertman said, the need to do more feels like unbearable boredom. But actual marijuana helps get rid of that symptom and go about your business.
Although it may help, i'm not sure if taking one drug to break from another is the best option.
Absolutely, I do want to quit using marijuana eventually.
But I want to do it ON MY OWN. Maybe where I can gradually decrease usage until I'm happy with it or stop completely. Being forced to quit immediately probably has something to do with the spice canisters littered all over the sidewalks and streets.
Regardless, hopefully I can just use this as an opportunity to quit both completely. I don't ever really want to quit weed 100%, but I'd love to learn to use it sparingly and wisely.
As someone who "quit" about a year ago (I still smoke, but it's something like once every 2-3 months), it's definitely worth it, and you should really try whenever you're in a place where you're ready. Weed is good in the sense that it doesn't have any significant withdrawal effects, so the only things you have to struggle through when quitting is the psychological stuff.
That would be great. I imagine it would be a lot more enjoyable that way, since your tolerance should be zero, and you should be able to afford only the dankest of the dank when you use that rarely :p
However, if I it some day after quitting for 3 months, and find that it's difficult to get through the day without smoking it, hopefully I'll have learned my lesson from previous years and know to just drop it completely.
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
Slow down there cowboy, you're suggesting that drugs don't impair judgement. That's obviously not true. I'm not saying people shouldn't be responsible for their own actions, but don't pretend that marijuana doesn't affect behavior.
It will get you way higher than weed, but like some one else mentioned its not the natural high you get from weed. It feels like a synthetic high. I would say its closer to crack than it is weed, a lot closer. The addiction from spice or k2 is much stronger than you'll ever have from weed and is more like a crack addiction. The danger it presents to your health is also much closer to crack than weed. You can die from it, people have died. You can have seizures, you can have convulsions and tremors and even cardiac arrest. Its not a joke.
Synthetic marijuana is nothing like marijuana. It is a hard drug. Be careful.
On January 16 2013 17:49 jinorazi wrote: is the price the only reason to use this instead?
No its legal, and you can pass drug test.
"On November 24, 2010, the DEA announced that it would make JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200, CP-47,497, and cannabicyclohexanol, which are often found in synthetic cannabis, illegal using emergency powers."
if its legal, it means the new ones aren't using those chemicals? i assume it just isnt enforced.
edit: temporary federal ban, ban varies by state. but it seems they could be tested for.
Do not use it. Research chemicals weren't designed to be used in this kind of way, the high is not a real high, and one day your brain will fuck itself over and your life may be ruined forever.
On January 16 2013 18:02 sluggaslamoo wrote: Do not use it. Research chemicals weren't designed to be used in this kind of way, the high is not a real high, and one day your brain will fuck itself over and your life may be ruined forever.
Don't scare me like that, makes me wonder if I've lost all my potential just with the abuse I've had so far >.<
On January 16 2013 18:02 sluggaslamoo wrote: Do not use it. Research chemicals weren't designed to be used in this kind of way, the high is not a real high, and one day your brain will fuck itself over and your life may be ruined forever.
Don't scare me like that, makes me wonder if I've lost all my potential just with the abuse I've had so far >.<
Na man it takes some long term abuse to do severe damage. Just quit it. You'll be alright.
On January 16 2013 18:02 sluggaslamoo wrote: Do not use it. Research chemicals weren't designed to be used in this kind of way, the high is not a real high, and one day your brain will fuck itself over and your life may be ruined forever.
Don't scare me like that, makes me wonder if I've lost all my potential just with the abuse I've had so far >.<
Some of the stories I've seen are truly frightening, one of the bad ones was about a guy who started getting constant migranes and eventually he had episodes where he felt like his brain was melting, in agony for hours, and even when he quit it would still happen several years later up to several times a day, and I don't think it ever went away. He only had been on it for a couple months I think and he became permantly screwed for life with this condition, he is unable to work or drive or do anything.
A lot of people will start getting migranes at some point, my friend complains of headaches, its just not good.
On January 16 2013 18:02 sluggaslamoo wrote: Do not use it. Research chemicals weren't designed to be used in this kind of way, the high is not a real high, and one day your brain will fuck itself over and your life may be ruined forever.
Don't scare me like that, makes me wonder if I've lost all my potential just with the abuse I've had so far >.<
Na man it takes some long term abuse to do severe damage. Just quit it. You'll be alright.
This is not true. Although the previous poster is probably alright as long as he is not having problems so far, some people can start having severe problems immediately and even die.
I can say one thing about this particular "trend" (bath salts aka synthetic marijuana): it is not worth the risk (as if many drugs are lol).
Get this: A friend of a friend had been using this chemical and went home in extreme psychosis. He cut his neck with a kitchen knife with his father standing nearby (who happen to be a doctor) and was rushed to the ER. He was saved because the cut missed his jugular and was sent home the following night and fell asleep with his father holding him. When his father fell asleep the son got up, walked into the garage and shot himself in the head. Swear to anything I hold dear that this is true and was a direct result of the bath salts.
Watch the first ten minutes of this. This shit is nothing to be fucked with!
Listen, I've been a Paramedic for 3 years. I work in the county that has the highest abuse and deaths (both intentional and non) from opiate abuse in the United States. I am admittedly a former pothead and sincerely hope that it becomes legal one day. I've seen it all when it comes to drug abuse and overdose.
Anyone that smokes this stuff is putting their health and life at risk. I'm not being all melodramatic here, I don't care if you smoke, drink, whatever. Live your life as you choose. However if you really want to experience what it feels like to have a massive heart attack, seizures, excited delirium go right on ahead and give this crap a shot. I've had patients who smoked this wonderful drug and were found in a bystanders backyard naked with a baseball bat threatening to "Kill the earth." Otherwise normal, healthy people. I've seen professional athletes use this stuff ONE TIME and almost cause permanent damage to their heart because it jumped their BP to 220/120 with a HR of 170. You have any idea how much cocaine you would have to do to get that same response from your nervous system? You don't have enough money too, unless your Stephano or MVP. I've had to see the decapitated bodies of a 44yo man, his two 20yo aged sons and 13yo boy mangled inside of a car. The person who hit them was high on this stuff and driving 90MPH down a 35MPH road. I've seen a lot of weird and disturbing stuff but the faces of that family? I continue to lose sleep over the image of their faces. I don't share this with anyone in my personal life, the anonymity of the internets allows me to do so with you. I hope this give you guys an idea of how strongly I feel about this subject.
You want to know how many people I've brought to the ER because of weed in 3 years? None. Cocaine? Maybe in the ballpark of 15 - 20. Opiates? A lot, yeah... but I've seen more people die or have serious life changing events directly related to the use of this drug in the past year then I've seen all other drugs combined in 3.
You know what I tell my patients who are consequently in the back of my ambulance because of smoking this synthetic shit? Just smoke the real shit. Seriously.
/rant
Edit: I have the flu any my brain is not working. I apologize for any cringe-inducing grammatical errors.
On January 16 2013 18:02 sluggaslamoo wrote: Do not use it. Research chemicals weren't designed to be used in this kind of way, the high is not a real high, and one day your brain will fuck itself over and your life may be ruined forever.
Don't scare me like that, makes me wonder if I've lost all my potential just with the abuse I've had so far >.<
Some of the stories I've seen are truly frightening, one of the bad ones was about a guy who started getting constant migranes and eventually he had episodes where he felt like his brain was melting, in agony for hours, and even when he quit it would still happen several years later up to several times a day, and I don't think it ever went away. He only had been on it for a couple months I think and he became permantly screwed for life with this condition, he is unable to work or drive or do anything.
A lot of people will start getting migranes at some point, my friend complains of headaches, its just not good.
On January 16 2013 18:02 sluggaslamoo wrote: Do not use it. Research chemicals weren't designed to be used in this kind of way, the high is not a real high, and one day your brain will fuck itself over and your life may be ruined forever.
Don't scare me like that, makes me wonder if I've lost all my potential just with the abuse I've had so far >.<
Na man it takes some long term abuse to do severe damage. Just quit it. You'll be alright.
This is not true. Although the previous poster is probably alright as long as he is not having problems so far, some people can start having severe problems immediately and even die.
I already said in my previous post you can die. He was worried about the effects it has done to his brain. For the most part you are not going to have any permanent damage from short term use. That mostly only comes from long term abuse.
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
Okay, I'm gonna associate my "struggling with depression and barely maintaining a 1.2 GPA" with weed, and my current 4.0 with "weed is best in moderation," and continue on that track, because shit seems to be working pretty well for me. XD
edit: there is nothing wrong with responsible use of weed. the majority of my friends smoke and are fully functioning and generally awesome people. don't pretend it's some harmless happy funtime bullshit that does nothing wrong though, because it is not. people who already have issues can develop an abusive relationship with weed, and that is not good.
On January 16 2013 18:16 WedgeSTL wrote: Oh dear lord Jesus IT'S A FIARH.
Listen, I've been a Paramedic for 3 years. I work in the county that has the highest abuse and deaths (both intentional and non) from opiate abuse in the United States. I am admittedly a former pothead and sincerely hope that it becomes legal one day. I've seen it all when it comes to drug abuse and overdose.
Anyone that smokes this stuff is putting their health and life at risk. I'm not being all melodramatic here, I don't care if you smoke, drink, whatever. Live your life as you choose. However if you really want to experience what it feels like to have a massive heart attack, seizures, excited delirium go right on ahead and give this crap a shot. I've had patients who smoked this wonderful drug and were found in a bystanders backyard naked with a baseball bat threatening to "Kill the earth." Otherwise normal, healthy people. I've seen professional athletes use this stuff ONE TIME and almost cause permanent damage to their heart because it jumped their BP to 220/120 with a HR of 170. You have any idea how much cocaine you would have to do to get that same response from your nervous system? You don't have enough money too, unless your Stephano or MVP. I've had to see the decapitated bodies of a 44yo man, his two 20yo aged sons and 13yo boy mangled inside of a car. The person who hit them was high on this stuff and driving 90MPH down a 35MPH road. I've seen a lot of weird and disturbing stuff but the faces of that family? I continue to lose sleep over the image of their faces. I don't share this with anyone in my personal life, the anonymity of the internets allows me to do so with you. I hope this give you guys an idea of how strongly I feel about this subject.
You want to know how many people I've brought to the ER because of weed in 3 years? None. Cocaine? Maybe in the ballpark of 15 - 20. Opiates? A lot, yeah... but I've seen more people die or have serious life changing events directly related to the use of this drug in the past year then I've seen all other drugs combined in 3.
You know what I tell my patients who are consequently in the back of my ambulance because of smoking this synthetic shit? Just smoke the real shit. Seriously.
/rant
Edit: I have the flu any my brain is not working. I apologize for any cringe-inducing grammatical errors.
Oh dear
Thanks a lot for giving a post from authority. Your claim that this is essentially more dangerous than cocaine and opiates really puts things into perspective and shows how important it is to stay away from this useless catshit.
@Amityville: What is "long term use"? I've been on and off spice (mostly off) for about two years, sometimes using consistently for months at a time. Do you think I've hampered my intelligence by a noticeable amount? The only thing I've ever had pride for was my above-average intelligence, if I've thrown that away then I have no clue what I'll do with my self.
@Corpus:
there is nothing wrong with responsible use of weed. the majority of my friends smoke and are fully functioning and generally awesome people. don't pretend it's some harmless happy funtime bullshit that does nothing wrong though, because it is not. people who already have issues can develop an abusive relationship with weed, and that is not good.
My thoughts exactly. Some people think weed should be illegal, others think it's harmless and everyone should do it. I think both of those stances are completely moronic. Don't underestimate the harm that even natural weed can bring, even though plenty of people use it with no trouble.
I agree with the hoby2000 when he said that weed doesn't make you lazy. If you're lazy on weed, than you're a lazy person no matter what, it's just the weed allows you not to give a fuck and continue doing nothing.
As a side note, for anyone having problems being lazy and procrastinating, I would greatly suggest that you read "The War of Art" by Steven Pressfield.
About the current topic, after reading even more posts about how messed up this "spice" is, I stick to my previous stance, stay the fuck away from that shit!
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
Okay, I'm gonna associate my "struggling with depression and barely maintaining a 1.2 GPA" with weed, and my current 4.0 with "weed is best in moderation," and continue on that track, because shit seems to be working pretty well for me. XD
edit: there is nothing wrong with responsible use of weed. the majority of my friends smoke and are fully functioning and generally awesome people. don't pretend it's some harmless happy funtime bullshit that does nothing wrong though, because it is not. people who already have issues can develop an abusive relationship with weed, and that is not good.
From my observations of friends and experiences in life, I can shamelessly say that marijuana is most likely the least harmful drug (compared to other recreation drugs, that is) known to exist. Yes, its amotivational effects have been experimentally proven and it may act as a gateway, but the argument as it being the best of all evils is strong. I don't support its use nor do I criticize those who use it "responsibly."
On January 16 2013 18:16 WedgeSTL wrote: Oh dear lord Jesus IT'S A FIARH.
Listen, I've been a Paramedic for 3 years. I work in the county that has the highest abuse and deaths (both intentional and non) from opiate abuse in the United States. I am admittedly a former pothead and sincerely hope that it becomes legal one day. I've seen it all when it comes to drug abuse and overdose.
Anyone that smokes this stuff is putting their health and life at risk. I'm not being all melodramatic here, I don't care if you smoke, drink, whatever. Live your life as you choose. However if you really want to experience what it feels like to have a massive heart attack, seizures, excited delirium go right on ahead and give this crap a shot. I've had patients who smoked this wonderful drug and were found in a bystanders backyard naked with a baseball bat threatening to "Kill the earth." Otherwise normal, healthy people. I've seen professional athletes use this stuff ONE TIME and almost cause permanent damage to their heart because it jumped their BP to 220/120 with a HR of 170. You have any idea how much cocaine you would have to do to get that same response from your nervous system? You don't have enough money too, unless your Stephano or MVP. I've had to see the decapitated bodies of a 44yo man, his two 20yo aged sons and 13yo boy mangled inside of a car. The person who hit them was high on this stuff and driving 90MPH down a 35MPH road. I've seen a lot of weird and disturbing stuff but the faces of that family? I continue to lose sleep over the image of their faces. I don't share this with anyone in my personal life, the anonymity of the internets allows me to do so with you. I hope this give you guys an idea of how strongly I feel about this subject.
You want to know how many people I've brought to the ER because of weed in 3 years? None. Cocaine? Maybe in the ballpark of 15 - 20. Opiates? A lot, yeah... but I've seen more people die or have serious life changing events directly related to the use of this drug in the past year then I've seen all other drugs combined in 3.
You know what I tell my patients who are consequently in the back of my ambulance because of smoking this synthetic shit? Just smoke the real shit. Seriously.
/rant
Edit: I have the flu any my brain is not working. I apologize for any cringe-inducing grammatical errors.
Oh dear
Thanks a lot for giving a post from authority. Your claim that this is essentially more dangerous than cocaine and opiates really puts things into perspective and shows how important it is to stay away from this useless catshit.
@Amityville: What is "long term use"? I've been on and off spice (mostly off) for about two years, sometimes using consistently for months at a time. Do you think I've hampered my intelligence by a noticeable amount? The only thing I've ever had pride for was my above-average intelligence, if I've thrown that away then I have no clue what I'll do with my self.
there is nothing wrong with responsible use of weed. the majority of my friends smoke and are fully functioning and generally awesome people. don't pretend it's some harmless happy funtime bullshit that does nothing wrong though, because it is not. people who already have issues can develop an abusive relationship with weed, and that is not good.
My thoughts exactly. Some people think weed should be illegal, others think it's harmless and everyone should do it. I think both of those stances are completely moronic. Don't underestimate the harm that even natural weed can bring, even though plenty of people use it with no trouble.
Bro your post is enough to let me know that you are above the average intelligence level in this country. I think you are greatly overestimating the average intelligence in the United States.
On January 16 2013 15:20 Go0g3n wrote: I've listened do an episode of a show with Dr.Drew, a man called in with the question about taking synthetic marijuana to pass a drug test at work, complained about headaches, weakness he started experiencing after he began taking it. Basically Drew said that it was far more dangerous than real pot and recommended treatment and generally to stay away from that stuff.
That's about all i know about it.
yea, coz the stuff dr.drew says is realy legit http://tinyurl.com/cml25jd to OT: synthetic cannabis is som realy nasty shit, ive used some jwh 018 to "spice up" my normal hits but i would never recomend it and certely not in any "unpure gasstation form" I Guess most of what u call "synthetic cannabis is JWH based stuff? and for the people that realy whant to learn about drugs should go to http://www.erowid.org where you can get the truth about the substance u whant to abbuse.
I'm getting my doctorate in clinical psychology and I've done more drugs than almost anyone in this thread and synthetic cannabis is, in my opinion, about as dangerous as recreational methamphetamine. I would even venture so far as to say that if you're only using it one or two times, methamphetamine is far safer than what's marketed as synthetic cannabis.
[edit] Let me qualify that: Synthetic cannabis is far more likely to precipitate a psychotic break than methamphetamine. [/edit]
On January 16 2013 18:38 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I'm getting my doctorate in clinical psychology and I've done more drugs than almost anyone in this thread and synthetic cannabis is, in my opinion, about as dangerous as recreational methamphetamine. I would even venture so far as to say that if you're only using it one or two times, methamphetamine is far safer than what's marketed as synthetic cannabis.
[edit] Let me qualify that: Synthetic cannabis is far more likely to precipitate a psychotic break than methamphetamine. [/edit]
Its pretty close to meth on the danger scale. I've been telling people this for awhile. Put synthetic cannabis up there with all the other hardcore drugs like herion, crack, meth. Its on that level.
On January 16 2013 18:40 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I mean, why would you put your life in danger just to get high when marijuana itself is much healthier and safer?
No one chooses spice over pot (except maybe broke junkies). Some people are just forced to quit through drug tests, and they're not ready to quit. It's just soooo much easier to buy $5 of spice and be high for days than to deal with the cravings.
On January 16 2013 18:40 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I mean, why would you put your life in danger just to get high when marijuana itself is much healthier and safer?
You wouldnt unless you have court ordered drug test. Its also much easier to get synthetics. This is the problem with America. We're getting arrested and tested for completely harmless drugs like marijuana, while you can buy shit like that over the counter. Its pathetic
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
Okay, I'm gonna associate my "struggling with depression and barely maintaining a 1.2 GPA" with weed, and my current 4.0 with "weed is best in moderation," and continue on that track, because shit seems to be working pretty well for me. XD
edit: there is nothing wrong with responsible use of weed. the majority of my friends smoke and are fully functioning and generally awesome people. don't pretend it's some harmless happy funtime bullshit that does nothing wrong though, because it is not. people who already have issues can develop an abusive relationship with weed, and that is not good.
From my observations of friends and experiences in life, I can shamelessly say that marijuana is most likely the least harmful drug (compared to other recreation drugs, that is) known to exist. Yes, its amotivational effects have been experimentally proven and it may act as a gateway, but the argument as it being the best of all evils is strong. I don't support its use nor do I criticize those who use it "responsibly."
I completely agree. Weed is utterly harmless relative to any other drug I can think of besides maybe caffeine, but that doesn't mean that you can just get high all the time and expect there to be no negative consequences.
Also, I don't remember exactly who said it, but whenever you say "I've done more drugs than you," you make yourself look like an ass and you're probably wrong. Don't pretend you know what other people have done, especially since it's, you know, the fucking internet.
You should stop that shit right now. Did it for some time, too. I didn't experience the high so much, I always got a slight headache after using it, so I decided to quit pretty quickly. I had no trouble quitting, but who knows what they throw into it nowadays. Our experiences might be with different substances.
If you have to do drug testing and you want to still get high from time to time, I would recommend GHB. Decomposition product is CO² and they don't test for it (even if they do, you are clean some hours after your last intake). High is quite smooth and comfortable.
If you do it I highely recommend not to do it too often. Quitting is a real bitch after some months of frequent consumption. Nervousness, loss of sleep until you are a walking zombie and anger management issues. You will be on high voltage until you reestablished good sleeping patterns (will take around 10-14 days).
Synthetic Weed is one of the worst experiences in my whole life. :/
I barely remember anything, but about a year ago this was pretty trendy in the southern Vienna area. It was 5€/gram (Weed is 10€/gram) and you could get it everywhere. When I smoked it the smoke in my throat felt so soft and good tasting, but about 30 seconds later the effect began. Our dealer didn´t told us that it was not normal weed, but we immediately recognized it. From 1 bong hit, we where backed like after 15 bong hits @.@
At first we thought it was awesome: Cheaper, stronger and softer to smoke =)))
We thought we got the perfect weed replacement, but then things happened. I should have noticed this earlier because a lot of people stopped smoking this after the first time, but we continued for some more months T.T Then the first big impact: A smoking-beginner friend of mine smoked alone a join with pure synt. weed and had his biggest mental breakdown of his life: His pulse was ~200 and he felt so hot that he had to strip. In Winter. After this action he began to get hyperactive and he ran naked on the streets of his town where he got caught by the police and was brought to the hospital.
Ok in one sentence: Synthetic weed is way more dangerous and brain fucking then normal weed. Legalize Marijuana and shit like this will stop!
I don't understand why so many people llike to talk about the drugs they use.. Especially pot smokers just love to talk about smoking and how much they and their friends do it.. I have to say that I find it pretty sad tbh..
On January 16 2013 19:03 AngryMag wrote: You should stop that shit right now. Did it for some time, too. I didn't experience the high so much, I always got a slight headache after using it, so I decided to quit pretty quickly. I had no trouble quitting, but who knows what they throw into it nowadays. Our experiences might be with different substances.
If you have to do drug testing and you want to still get high from time to time, I would recommend GHB. Decomposition product is CO² and they don't test for it (even if they do, you are clean some hours after your last intake). High is quite smooth and comfortable.
If you do it I highely recommend not to do it too often. Quitting is a real bitch after some months of frequent consumption. Nervousness, loss of sleep until you are a walking zombie and anger management issues. You will be on high voltage until you reestablished good sleeping patterns (will take around 10-14 days).
That almost sounds as bad as spice lol. If I'm desperate to get intoxicated, I guess I'll drink some booze or chug a bottle of cough syrup. If I want to smoke I'll have a cigarette.
But I think you guys have scared me away from this shit. Thank you.
On January 16 2013 19:12 B.I.G. wrote: I don't understand why so many people llike to talk about the drugs they use.. Especially pot smokers just love to talk about smoking and how much they and their friends do it.. I have to say that I find it pretty sad tbh..
It's just part of lifestyle. It's like a gamer talking about the games they play or how often they play them. It's something you do every day, and something you talk about every once in a while.
Yes there are attention whores who talk about it for that reason, but most of the time it's just a legitimate discussion of a daily activity.
On January 16 2013 19:12 B.I.G. wrote: I don't understand why so many people llike to talk about the drugs they use.. Especially pot smokers just love to talk about smoking and how much they and their friends do it.. I have to say that I find it pretty sad tbh..
and then u have stoners who does not like to talk about IT ALL unless they are with only fellow stoners or on forums like this.
On January 16 2013 18:40 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I mean, why would you put your life in danger just to get high when marijuana itself is much healthier and safer?
No one chooses spice over pot (except maybe broke junkies). Some people are just forced to quit through drug tests, and they're not ready to quit. It's just soooo much easier to buy $5 of spice and be high for days than to deal with the cravings.
So, what I hear you saying is that you don't think people are in charge of their own lives? To me, every drug I've ever done has been a conscious choice.
Don't give me that "because it's easier I had no choice" bullshit.
It's just part of lifestyle. If you ever tried a recreational drug you might understand. It's like a gamer talking about the games they play or how often they play them. It's something you do every day, and something you talk about every once in a while.
Yes there are attention whores who talk about it for that reason, but most of the time it's just a legitimate discussion of a daily activity.
lol. I love the leap from 'if you have ever tried a recreational drug' to 'you would understand that it's a daily activity.'
Honestly, dude... this makes me think you consider it more normal to do drugs daily or weekly than it actually is, which usually means you've loaded your social circle with people who do it all the time. It's actually not that normal, including among people who gotten high in various ways before. It's actually very abnormal to want to be intoxicated very frequently.
On January 16 2013 19:03 AngryMag wrote: You should stop that shit right now. Did it for some time, too. I didn't experience the high so much, I always got a slight headache after using it, so I decided to quit pretty quickly. I had no trouble quitting, but who knows what they throw into it nowadays. Our experiences might be with different substances.
If you have to do drug testing and you want to still get high from time to time, I would recommend GHB. Decomposition product is CO² and they don't test for it (even if they do, you are clean some hours after your last intake). High is quite smooth and comfortable.
If you do it I highely recommend not to do it too often. Quitting is a real bitch after some months of frequent consumption. Nervousness, loss of sleep until you are a walking zombie and anger management issues. You will be on high voltage until you reestablished good sleeping patterns (will take around 10-14 days).
That almost sounds as bad as spice lol. If I'm desperate to get intoxicated, I guess I'll drink some booze or chug a bottle of cough syrup. If I want to smoke I'll have a cigarette.
But I think you guys have scared me away from this shit. Thank you.
On January 16 2013 19:12 B.I.G. wrote: I don't understand why so many people llike to talk about the drugs they use.. Especially pot smokers just love to talk about smoking and how much they and their friends do it.. I have to say that I find it pretty sad tbh..
It's just part of lifestyle. It's like a gamer talking about the games they play or how often they play them. It's something you do every day, and something you talk about every once in a while.
Yes there are attention whores who talk about it for that reason, but most of the time it's just a legitimate discussion of a daily activity.
Good and wise choice At the end of the day, if you go past weed, everything comes with the possibility of severe downsides, so it is a good choice from you to stay away from stuff like that.
On January 16 2013 18:40 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I mean, why would you put your life in danger just to get high when marijuana itself is much healthier and safer?
No one chooses spice over pot (except maybe broke junkies). Some people are just forced to quit through drug tests, and they're not ready to quit. It's just soooo much easier to buy $5 of spice and be high for days than to deal with the cravings.
So, what I hear you saying is that you don't think people are in charge of their own lives? To me, every drug I've ever done has been a conscious choice.
Don't give me that "because it's easier I had no choice" bullshit.
Why so aggressive? I'm not arguing, nor would I ever argue, that someone is forced into using a recreational drug. You asked why people use this instead of marijuana so I answered your question.
It's just part of lifestyle. If you ever tried a recreational drug you might understand. It's like a gamer talking about the games they play or how often they play them. It's something you do every day, and something you talk about every once in a while.
Yes there are attention whores who talk about it for that reason, but most of the time it's just a legitimate discussion of a daily activity.
lol. I love the leap from 'if you have ever tried a recreational drug' to 'you would understand that it's a daily activity.'
Honestly, dude... this makes me think you consider it more normal to do drugs daily or weekly than it actually is, which usually means you've loaded your social circle with people who do it all the time. It's actually not that normal, including among people who gotten high in various ways before.
I'm aware of that. In fact, that's the point I'm making. Since it's uncommon to use, people think that any users who talk about it are bragging or trying to get attention.
To someone who uses regularly, and is surrounded by daily users, it's just normal conversation.
It's just part of lifestyle. If you ever tried a recreational drug you might understand. It's like a gamer talking about the games they play or how often they play them. It's something you do every day, and something you talk about every once in a while.
Yes there are attention whores who talk about it for that reason, but most of the time it's just a legitimate discussion of a daily activity.
lol. I love the leap from 'if you have ever tried a recreational drug' to 'you would understand that it's a daily activity.'
Honestly, dude... this makes me think you consider it more normal to do drugs daily or weekly than it actually is, which usually means you've loaded your social circle with people who do it all the time. It's actually not that normal, including among people who gotten high in various ways before.
I'm aware of that. In fact, that's the point I'm making. Since it's uncommon to use, people think that any users who talk about it are bragging or trying to get attention.
To someone who uses regularly, and is surrounded by daily users, it's just normal conversation.
On January 16 2013 18:40 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I mean, why would you put your life in danger just to get high when marijuana itself is much healthier and safer?
No one chooses spice over pot (except maybe broke junkies). Some people are just forced to quit through drug tests, and they're not ready to quit. It's just soooo much easier to buy $5 of spice and be high for days than to deal with the cravings.
So, what I hear you saying is that you don't think people are in charge of their own lives? To me, every drug I've ever done has been a conscious choice.
Don't give me that "because it's easier I had no choice" bullshit.
Why so aggressive? I'm not arguing, nor would I ever argue, that someone is forced into using a recreational drug. You asked why people use this instead of marijuana so I answered your question.
Your point was that nobody chooses to smoke synthetic cannabis.
That's irresponsible and it gives people excuses. If you're doing a drug, you're doing it by choice. If it's not a choice, what is it? Fate? Destiny?
No, it's clearly a choice and you shouldn't absolve yourself or anyone else of owning up to their decisions, especially when it comes to dangerous drugs.
[edit] Sorry if I come off as angry or aggressive but I really don't like the way you italicized "nobody chooses". [/edit]
On January 16 2013 18:40 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I mean, why would you put your life in danger just to get high when marijuana itself is much healthier and safer?
No one chooses spice over pot (except maybe broke junkies). Some people are just forced to quit through drug tests, and they're not ready to quit. It's just soooo much easier to buy $5 of spice and be high for days than to deal with the cravings.
So, what I hear you saying is that you don't think people are in charge of their own lives? To me, every drug I've ever done has been a conscious choice.
Don't give me that "because it's easier I had no choice" bullshit.
Why so aggressive? I'm not arguing, nor would I ever argue, that someone is forced into using a recreational drug. You asked why people use this instead of marijuana so I answered your question.
Your point was that nobody chooses to smoke synthetic cannabis.
That's irresponsible and it gives people excuses. If you're doing a drug, you're doing it by choice. If it's not a choice, what is it? Fate? Destiny?
No, it's clearly a choice and you shouldn't absolve yourself or anyone else of owning up to their decisions, especially when it comes to dangerous drugs.
[edit] Sorry if I come off as angry or aggressive but I really don't like the way you italicized "nobody chooses". [/edit]
I would argue that no one is responsible for any decision they make but that's an entirely different conversation :p
But I meant what I said: No one chooses spice over marijuana. I didn't mean that people aren't accountable for using it if they do. What I meant is that no marijuana user who is aware of the dangers of spice, would smoke spice instead of marijuana "just because." The reason that people turn to spice is because they cannot smoke marijuana. That's the only point I'm making lol.
On January 16 2013 19:03 AngryMag wrote: You should stop that shit right now. Did it for some time, too. I didn't experience the high so much, I always got a slight headache after using it, so I decided to quit pretty quickly. I had no trouble quitting, but who knows what they throw into it nowadays. Our experiences might be with different substances.
If you have to do drug testing and you want to still get high from time to time, I would recommend GHB. Decomposition product is CO² and they don't test for it (even if they do, you are clean some hours after your last intake). High is quite smooth and comfortable.
If you do it I highely recommend not to do it too often. Quitting is a real bitch after some months of frequent consumption. Nervousness, loss of sleep until you are a walking zombie and anger management issues. You will be on high voltage until you reestablished good sleeping patterns (will take around 10-14 days).
That almost sounds as bad as spice lol. If I'm desperate to get intoxicated, I guess I'll drink some booze or chug a bottle of cough syrup. If I want to smoke I'll have a cigarette.
But I think you guys have scared me away from this shit. Thank you.
On January 16 2013 19:12 B.I.G. wrote: I don't understand why so many people llike to talk about the drugs they use.. Especially pot smokers just love to talk about smoking and how much they and their friends do it.. I have to say that I find it pretty sad tbh..
It's just part of lifestyle. It's like a gamer talking about the games they play or how often they play them. It's something you do every day, and something you talk about every once in a while.
Yes there are attention whores who talk about it for that reason, but most of the time it's just a legitimate discussion of a daily activity.
oh god I remember this group of guys back in high school that were about my age, that were to naive to realize that a lot of us were smoking up at that time, but when they finally discovered weed they wouldn't stop talking about how awesome it is and making "you should try it too man" comments all the time...
The worst part is that in a lot of cases people that don't know any better start believing thee people who brag about this kind of shit are the "real deal" while (at least where I'm from) the people who really do the dirt don't really like to talk about it..
It's one of my bigger frustrations in life I suppose.
On January 16 2013 19:03 AngryMag wrote: You should stop that shit right now. Did it for some time, too. I didn't experience the high so much, I always got a slight headache after using it, so I decided to quit pretty quickly. I had no trouble quitting, but who knows what they throw into it nowadays. Our experiences might be with different substances.
If you have to do drug testing and you want to still get high from time to time, I would recommend GHB. Decomposition product is CO² and they don't test for it (even if they do, you are clean some hours after your last intake). High is quite smooth and comfortable.
If you do it I highely recommend not to do it too often. Quitting is a real bitch after some months of frequent consumption. Nervousness, loss of sleep until you are a walking zombie and anger management issues. You will be on high voltage until you reestablished good sleeping patterns (will take around 10-14 days).
That almost sounds as bad as spice lol. If I'm desperate to get intoxicated, I guess I'll drink some booze or chug a bottle of cough syrup. If I want to smoke I'll have a cigarette.
But I think you guys have scared me away from this shit. Thank you.
On January 16 2013 19:12 B.I.G. wrote: I don't understand why so many people llike to talk about the drugs they use.. Especially pot smokers just love to talk about smoking and how much they and their friends do it.. I have to say that I find it pretty sad tbh..
It's just part of lifestyle. It's like a gamer talking about the games they play or how often they play them. It's something you do every day, and something you talk about every once in a while.
Yes there are attention whores who talk about it for that reason, but most of the time it's just a legitimate discussion of a daily activity.
oh god I remember this group of guys back in high school that were about my age, that were to naive to realize that a lot of us were smoking up at that time, but when they finally discovered weed they wouldn't stop talking about how awesome it is and making "you should try it too man" comments all the time...
The worst part is that in a lot of cases people that don't know any better start believing thee people who brag about this kind of shit are the "real deal" while (at least where I'm from) the people who really do the dirt don't really like to talk about it..
It's one of my bigger frustrations in life I suppose.
Well then shouldn't you be keeping your classmates naivety and your all-pro stoner life knowledge to yourself instead of posting it on a public forum? Juuust kidding lol. When I was in highschool (now ~6 years ago in NYS suburb) mentioning or eluding to ones participation in illicit substance use was instant grounds for criticisms by a large majority of the students at the school.
One of my friend told me about a super powerful weed he had tried recently and I refused to believe it was just weed. Two weeks after it turns out it was "K2", but because synthetic weed is so uncommon in Shanghai he had no idea it even existed.
I absolutely do not see any advantage of synthetic weed vs real weed, so I am not even curious to try it.
On January 16 2013 21:38 endy wrote: One of my friend told me about a super powerful weed he had tried recently and I refused to believe it was just weed. Two weeks after it turns out it was "K2", but because synthetic weed is so uncommon in Shanghai he had no idea it even existed.
I absolutely do not see any advantage of synthetic weed vs real weed, so I am not even curious to try it.
Some users say it gets them more high. The blends I've used were usually less potent than weed though. But the main reasons for use are cost and legality.
Was this stuff sold to your friend as marijuana? If you catch the guy selling it, I say you should report him to the police.
I've tried it, because of the hype and for awhile people were trying to convince me it was "better" than real weed. They were so wrong. It sucks and I hated it and it just falls on the list of shit I'll never do again ever.
On January 16 2013 21:38 endy wrote: One of my friend told me about a super powerful weed he had tried recently and I refused to believe it was just weed. Two weeks after it turns out it was "K2", but because synthetic weed is so uncommon in Shanghai he had no idea it even existed.
I absolutely do not see any advantage of synthetic weed vs real weed, so I am not even curious to try it.
Some users say it gets them more high. The blends I've used were usually less potent than weed though. But the main reasons for use are cost and legality.
Was this stuff sold to your friend as marijuana? If you catch the guy selling it, I say you should report him to the police.
please,please dear friend. What shall he tell the police? "Mr.Police, my drug dealer didn't sell me the dope I wanted, but some other stuff instead."
Apart from that, snitching is really bad style. If there are differences, they shall be worked out with the dude directly.
On January 16 2013 21:38 endy wrote: One of my friend told me about a super powerful weed he had tried recently and I refused to believe it was just weed. Two weeks after it turns out it was "K2", but because synthetic weed is so uncommon in Shanghai he had no idea it even existed.
I absolutely do not see any advantage of synthetic weed vs real weed, so I am not even curious to try it.
Some users say it gets them more high. The blends I've used were usually less potent than weed though. But the main reasons for use are cost and legality.
Was this stuff sold to your friend as marijuana? If you catch the guy selling it, I say you should report him to the police.
please,please dear friend. What shall he tell the police? "Mr.Police, my drug dealer didn't sell me the dope I wanted, but some other stuff instead."
Apart from that, snitching is really bad style. If there are differences, they shall be worked out with the dude directly.
You tell the police "I'd like to report a drug dealer." It doesn't matter if they're selling flour as cocaine, it's still very illegal. As long as you don't have a pocket full of drugs when the police arrive, you can very much report someone for doing that without getting in trouble.
Ratting out a legitimate dealer is "snitching." If someone is selling spice and claiming it's weed, they're a scumbag poisoning people for money without their consent. And they belong in jail.
On January 16 2013 21:38 endy wrote: One of my friend told me about a super powerful weed he had tried recently and I refused to believe it was just weed. Two weeks after it turns out it was "K2", but because synthetic weed is so uncommon in Shanghai he had no idea it even existed.
I absolutely do not see any advantage of synthetic weed vs real weed, so I am not even curious to try it.
Some users say it gets them more high. The blends I've used were usually less potent than weed though. But the main reasons for use are cost and legality.
Was this stuff sold to your friend as marijuana? If you catch the guy selling it, I say you should report him to the police.
please,please dear friend. What shall he tell the police? "Mr.Police, my drug dealer didn't sell me the dope I wanted, but some other stuff instead."
Apart from that, snitching is really bad style. If there are differences, they shall be worked out with the dude directly.
You tell the police "I'd like to report a drug dealer." It doesn't matter if they're selling flour as cocaine, it's still very illegal. As long as you don't have a pocket full of drugs when the police arrive, you can very much report someone for doing that without getting in trouble.
Ratting out a legitimate dealer is "snitching." If someone is selling spice and claiming it's weed, they're a scumbag poisoning people for money without their consent. And they belong in jail.
Capital punishment in the People's Republic of China is usually administered to offenders of serious and violent crimes, such as aggravated murder, but China retains in law a number of nonviolent capital offenses such as drug trafficking.
On January 16 2013 21:38 endy wrote: One of my friend told me about a super powerful weed he had tried recently and I refused to believe it was just weed. Two weeks after it turns out it was "K2", but because synthetic weed is so uncommon in Shanghai he had no idea it even existed.
I absolutely do not see any advantage of synthetic weed vs real weed, so I am not even curious to try it.
Some users say it gets them more high. The blends I've used were usually less potent than weed though. But the main reasons for use are cost and legality.
Was this stuff sold to your friend as marijuana? If you catch the guy selling it, I say you should report him to the police.
K2 is bought easily on taobao.com, some sort of Chinese hybrid of Ebay and Amazon. It's advertised as incense obviously.
On January 16 2013 21:38 endy wrote: One of my friend told me about a super powerful weed he had tried recently and I refused to believe it was just weed. Two weeks after it turns out it was "K2", but because synthetic weed is so uncommon in Shanghai he had no idea it even existed.
I absolutely do not see any advantage of synthetic weed vs real weed, so I am not even curious to try it.
Some users say it gets them more high. The blends I've used were usually less potent than weed though. But the main reasons for use are cost and legality.
Was this stuff sold to your friend as marijuana? If you catch the guy selling it, I say you should report him to the police.
please,please dear friend. What shall he tell the police? "Mr.Police, my drug dealer didn't sell me the dope I wanted, but some other stuff instead."
Apart from that, snitching is really bad style. If there are differences, they shall be worked out with the dude directly.
You tell the police "I'd like to report a drug dealer." It doesn't matter if they're selling flour as cocaine, it's still very illegal. As long as you don't have a pocket full of drugs when the police arrive, you can very much report someone for doing that without getting in trouble.
Ratting out a legitimate dealer is "snitching." If someone is selling spice and claiming it's weed, they're a scumbag poisoning people for money without their consent. And they belong in jail.
Capital punishment in the People's Republic of China is usually administered to offenders of serious and violent crimes, such as aggravated murder, but China retains in law a number of nonviolent capital offenses such as drug trafficking.
That's relevant as he's in Shanghai :D
Well the punishment is extremely harsh for traffickers, but they don't enforce simple marijuana smoking here. Huge majority of cops can't even recognize the smell of someone smoking weed. My previous apartment was above a police station and I often smoked weed at the balcony.
However if cops have a way to know you smoke weed, they will try to blackmail you and ask you to pay a huge fine otherwise threatening you to cancel your visa and deport you back to your country. If you happen to meet a zealous cop he will actually report you and you will likely get away with it because they can't press serious charges unless you are caught carrying over 25 grams.
On January 16 2013 21:38 endy wrote: One of my friend told me about a super powerful weed he had tried recently and I refused to believe it was just weed. Two weeks after it turns out it was "K2", but because synthetic weed is so uncommon in Shanghai he had no idea it even existed.
I absolutely do not see any advantage of synthetic weed vs real weed, so I am not even curious to try it.
Some users say it gets them more high. The blends I've used were usually less potent than weed though. But the main reasons for use are cost and legality.
Was this stuff sold to your friend as marijuana? If you catch the guy selling it, I say you should report him to the police.
K2 can is bought easily on taobao.com, some sort of Chinese hybrid of Ebay and Amazon. It's advertised as incense obviously.
Ah. You said your friend thought it was weed so I thought maybe a dealer had ripped him/her off.
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
Slow down there cowboy, you're suggesting that drugs don't impair judgement. That's obviously not true. I'm not saying people shouldn't be responsible for their own actions, but don't pretend that marijuana doesn't affect behavior.
I've been under the influence of a lot of drugs. Mushrooms impair my judgement. Alcohol impairs my judgement. Marijuana does not impair my judgement at all unless you're talking about the fact that I've smoked weed which changed how I viewed the world when I found out something that was supposed to be horrendously evil wasn't.
I will honestly say that every other drug impairs my judgement, but if you really think Marijuana does, then you're probably just fucked up in the head to begin with. People who act different while they're drunk or stoned or around certain groups of people are afraid of being themselves, and only express themselves when they have something to blame externally. It's not the drugs that makes people crazy - it's people that make themselves crazy because they can't accept themselves or reality for what it is.
Marijuana definatly effects ones judgement and the ability to see and understand complicated situations clearly. You have probably been under influence for such a long time that it is verry difficult to see a difference, one day non smoking weed wont make you feel better, infact you feel worse and have the feeling you see situations less clearly because of withdraw effects. You should try not smoke weed for 1 month and your ability to judge situations will improve dramatically.
Annyway:never tried this synthetic weed nor will i ever, cant imagine it will be annywhere close to realy good weed. Chemicals are just bad,good weed tastes so nice, no chemicals can replace that ever (not to mention the negative health effects) Did try guarana once (not sure about the spelling) they sell it here in headshops suposedly as an alternative for xtc but i found it complete crap and gave me a headache (good weed never ever gives a headache).
On January 17 2013 02:10 Rassy wrote: Marijuana definatly effects ones judgement and the ability to see and understand complicated situations clearly. You have probably been under influence for such a long time that it is verry difficult to see a difference, one day non smoking weed wont make you feel better, infact you feel worse and have the feeling you see situations less clearly because of withdraw effects. You should try not smoke weed for 1 month and your ability to judge situations will improve dramatically.
Annyway:never tried this synthetic weed nor will i ever, cant imagine it will be annywhere close to realy good weed. Chemicals are just bad,good weed tastes so nice, no chemicals can replace that ever (not to mention the negative health effects) Did try guarana once (not sure about the spelling) they sell it here in headshops suposedly as an alternative for xtc but i found it complete crap and gave me a headache (good weed never ever gives a headache).
I was thinking the same thing about impaired judgement from marijuana. If you don't feel it's affecting you then you probably have a habit of smoking too often. You also edited out the best part of your post :D 10/10
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
+1 for truth
I am really curious as to what kinds of spice we're talking about with some of these experiences and the amounts we're talking about. I had individual bad experiences when I did it (the first generation blends) but also had some awesome experiences too.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
Care to share how? I know it can damage your cardiovascular systems but I never heard of a confirmed case of death by synthetics beyond accidents and suicide.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
Care to share how? I know it can damage your cardiovascular systems but I never heard of a confirmed case of death by synthetics beyond accidents and suicide.
Im not sure really, but I knew he ordered online synthetic stuff and one day they found him on the floor dead. I can try to dig up more, but I doubt anyone likes to talk about it atm :/
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
Care to share how? I know it can damage your cardiovascular systems but I never heard of a confirmed case of death by synthetics beyond accidents and suicide.
Im not sure really, but I knew he ordered online synthetic stuff and one day they found him on the floor dead. I can try to dig up more, but I doubt anyone likes to talk about it atm :/
fair enough. i know the stuff is bad and i was just curious about what it may have caused. a big problem with the stuff i believe is the impurities that can be pretty nasty when combusted.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
See I disagree about the effects being exactly the same. Synthetic highs really do not feel as pleasurable to me, and I would always opt for plants over the JWH's. I find the the synthetic high to be more dizzying, a bit more dumbing, and a lot less useful.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
Care to share how? I know it can damage your cardiovascular systems but I never heard of a confirmed case of death by synthetics beyond accidents and suicide.
Im not sure really, but I knew he ordered online synthetic stuff and one day they found him on the floor dead. I can try to dig up more, but I doubt anyone likes to talk about it atm :/
Yeah, the news are (were) full of such events, not really any details, but it seems they're not too safe.
The effects can be a bit stronger, indeed, but the substances also seem to have random effects and feel generally unsafe. Would not recommend to someone without further studies, which I seriously doubt will actually get done.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
I have a friend who smoked it all the time for quite a while. Eventually he got to the point of vomiting blood and discovering rashes on his skin.
This is, of course, just talking about gas station "spice," I can't be sure of the chemicals used in that particular compound, but the types do vary quite a bit (usually because one of the things in it becomes illegal so they throw some other shit in to maybe make it okay again.) JWH-018 was pretty good, but it's been banned for a while.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
I have a friend who smoked it all the time for quite a while. Eventually he got to the point of vomiting blood and discovering rashes on his skin.
Can you see why this is very poor evidence? Everyone has "a friend", and those symptoms are very out of the ordinary when compared to main body of evidence.
Edit: Ok, good edit, the actual chemical composition of what one buys as "spice" is a big part of the problem. Move along
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
I have a friend who smoked it all the time for quite a while. Eventually he got to the point of vomiting blood and discovering rashes on his skin.
Can you see why this is very poor evidence? Everyone has "a friend", and those symptoms are very out of the ordinary when compared to main body of evidence.
Okay, sorry I accidentally stumbled upon a huge debate apparently. Next time I'll stick just to pier-reviewed publications to link in order to make a fucking post in the TL general section. Just saying that I knew a guy who got pretty fucked up because he smoked that shit all of the time.
EDIT: Well that was a bit harsh ;p It's been a long day.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
I have a friend who smoked it all the time for quite a while. Eventually he got to the point of vomiting blood and discovering rashes on his skin.
Can you see why this is very poor evidence? Everyone has "a friend", and those symptoms are very out of the ordinary when compared to main body of evidence.
Okay, sorry I accidentally stumbled upon a huge debate apparently. Next time I'll stick just to pier-reviewed publications to link in order to make a fucking post in the TL general section. Just saying that I knew a guy who got pretty fucked up because he smoked that shit all of the time.
EDIT: Well that was a bit harsh ;p It's been a long day.
If you do drugs with any regularity, as I do, you are probably rather used to hearing bullshit "my friend took this" or "one time, I took this many drugs" sort of stories; that was what I was reacting to. I've only known drug users to vomit blood on two occasions; the first was when a friend OD'ed on ghb, and the second was when the dude actually had tuburculosis lol. Not saying you're lying, I just gotta wonder what else your friend was taking.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
I have a friend who smoked it all the time for quite a while. Eventually he got to the point of vomiting blood and discovering rashes on his skin.
Can you see why this is very poor evidence? Everyone has "a friend", and those symptoms are very out of the ordinary when compared to main body of evidence.
Okay, sorry I accidentally stumbled upon a huge debate apparently. Next time I'll stick just to pier-reviewed publications to link in order to make a fucking post in the TL general section. Just saying that I knew a guy who got pretty fucked up because he smoked that shit all of the time.
EDIT: Well that was a bit harsh ;p It's been a long day.
If you do drugs with any regularity, as I do, you are probably rather used to hearing bullshit "my friend took this" or "one time, I took this many drugs" sort of stories; that was what I was reacting to. I've only known drug users to vomit blood on two occasions; the first was when a friend OD'ed on ghb, and the second was when the dude actually had tuburculosis lol. Not saying you're lying, I just gotta wonder what else your friend was taking.
I can't really be sure to be honest. He just stayed shy of THC for job purposes, but he was certainly an idiot so I can't rule out anything else that would be undetected (which leaves a few things on the table.)
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
I have a friend who smoked it all the time for quite a while. Eventually he got to the point of vomiting blood and discovering rashes on his skin.
Can you see why this is very poor evidence? Everyone has "a friend", and those symptoms are very out of the ordinary when compared to main body of evidence.
Okay, sorry I accidentally stumbled upon a huge debate apparently. Next time I'll stick just to pier-reviewed publications to link in order to make a fucking post in the TL general section. Just saying that I knew a guy who got pretty fucked up because he smoked that shit all of the time.
EDIT: Well that was a bit harsh ;p It's been a long day.
If you do drugs with any regularity, as I do, you are probably rather used to hearing bullshit "my friend took this" or "one time, I took this many drugs" sort of stories; that was what I was reacting to. I've only known drug users to vomit blood on two occasions; the first was when a friend OD'ed on ghb, and the second was when the dude actually had tuburculosis lol. Not saying you're lying, I just gotta wonder what else your friend was taking.
I can't really be sure to be honest. He just stayed shy of THC for job purposes, but he was certainly an idiot so I can't rule out anything else that would be undetected (which leaves a few things on the table.)
Lol fair enough, it sounds as though we know people cut from the same cloth
i also want to point out that there is a major difference between spice (synthetic cannabis) and bath salts (which has PCP like effects). i smoked a LOT of spice and my bad trips just consisted of me in my chair sweating my brains out unable to move and feeling sick (this is the experience of my friends as well). bath salts are what can cause people to go delirious (the most famous example being the guy who ate someone's face).
the two are often lumped together but they are very different things.
Ok. I'm not going to link you to studies because I haven't seen any. And I don't suspect we'll see any for a while, the government doesn't seem to care too much about doing labratory studies on these drugs. Hopefully cannabis will be legal sooner than that happens and it will be unneccessary. The most I've seen is media reports about scare stories, reports of people going to hospital for racing heart, hot flashes, panic attacks, etc. These can be easily explained away, as when your perception of reality is altered and you become paranoid about your health, it can be easy to work yourself up into a panic and convince yourself you're dying when in fact it might just be mostly your hormones, even if it started by actually increasing/decreasing your rate of breathing or making your skin tingle, etc.
I'm just going to give you personal experience. I was working a job where I absolutely could not consider real marijuana as an option, since I could be drug tested randomly, frequently, and the consequences would have been severe. So I started smoking herbal blends. I tried many different kinds, they all had slightly different effects at different levels, but for the most part they made me feel pretty high, almost as high as dank, but also very very spacey like hash or brownies. I continued using them pretty regularly for a few months. Now I'm not going to tell you that they did permanent damage, because I don't know that they were the complete cause for sure and not the extended period of prolonged lethargy and complete 24 hour a day sedentary lifestyle that may have caused or contributed, but I know for sure that these products absolutely 100% caused some nerve issues. I had involuntary twitches in my arm and leg muscles, even when I first started using them, that got progressively worse as my use became more regular. I haven't smoked these compounds in about 6 months, but I still have nerve spasms/slight bubbling pain sensations in my arms and legs. Again, not sure if being this far removed from use I can say that I still feeling permanent-level effects from that and not from the constant desk ridden job and home life I've been doing, but I do know for sure that I never had these issues in the slightest before I began using them. Also, during and shortly after use, I would feel very lightheaded and short of breath. It was never something I felt dangerous enough to stop using over, but it was not a pleasant sensation. IE the benefit of the high still outweighed this unpleasant feeling. And because it was not lasting, I didn't think anything of it. But now I often feel short of breath and lightheaded when I get really really tired, and this never happened before. Take it with a grain of salt as I'm not the most healthy control specimen, but here is my gist:
TLDR: these compounds have been suspected with nerve issues in user experience and doctor reports, and my personal experience has shown me they have a connection with nerve issues I've had. TAKE MY ADVICE AND AVOID THESE COMPOUNDS. If you must partake in something, stick good old fashioned cannabis,and if you cannot use cannabis, don't smoke at all, or find another alternative that has been vetted, such as alcohol, a reliable pharm, or a different trusted relaxing chemical.
The compounds have no community expectation on quality like marijuana, and there are no avenues for recompense if you have a bad experience, as by misusing their sold intent as incense you are accepting any negative side effects. Because of the random hit and miss harmful effects that people infrequently experience, sometimes getting a 'bad batch', there have been suspicions circulating about growers using other harmful chemicals on the plant materials, like pesticides etc, with zero regulations or community expectations.
Is this thread about spice or synthetic cannabinoids? When you go out and buy spice you have no idea what's in it, how much, and you're taking a huge risk. Sure some people may have died from spice(debatable) but there's a big difference between spice and smoking the pure chemical, so to say "people have died from these chemicals and they're extremely dangerous" is just outrageous. The research has not been done to state a claim either way, as far as how safe it is to use, but most of the studies show that these chemicals have similar benefits that cannabis provides(depends which chemical you're talking about). As far as how carcinogenic or which metabolites they're forming goes, there's TONS of information out there that you can go and look at and decide what you want to do. Personally, I've never had a problem smoking the pure chemicals. Spice on the other hand, can have different long term use effects depending on which herbs they're using, the chemical, although you never REALLY know what you're getting or how they made it. Almost every one of the horror stories you hear about is people who "overdose", freak out, then do something stupid to hurt themselves, or just vomit for a few hours. Point is, do your research before you take random drugs, or you're probably gonna have a bad time.
On January 17 2013 07:24 MethodSC wrote: Is this thread about spice or synthetic cannabinoids? When you go out and buy spice you have no idea what's in it, how much, and you're taking a huge risk. Sure some people may have died from spice(debatable) but there's a big difference between spice and smoking the pure chemical, so to say "people have died from these chemicals and they're extremely dangerous" is just outrageous. The research has not been done to state a claim either way, as far as how safe it is to use, but most of the studies show that these chemicals have similar benefits that cannabis provides(depends which chemical you're talking about). As far as how carcinogenic or which metabolites they're forming goes, there's TONS of information out there that you can go and look at and decide what you want to do. Personally, I've never had a problem smoking the pure chemicals. Spice on the other hand, can have different long term use effects depending on which herbs they're using, the chemical, although you never REALLY know what you're getting or how they made it. Almost every one of the horror stories you hear about is people who "overdose", freak out, then do something stupid to hurt themselves, or just vomit for a few hours. Point is, do your research before you take random drugs, or you're probably gonna have a bad time.
I sincerely doubt those bags of synthetic cannabinoids coming out of "labs" in china and india are anything close to "pure".
Spice honestly sound like shit and i don't understand why anybody would try it. All i've heard from it is just plain bad. These talks of bad drugs just makes me crave for sume good weed...it's a shame i can't smoke any in this country T___T
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
Synthetic cannabis doesn't have any THC in it so it's not cannabis at all. It sounds like you're grouping the two as the same.
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
Slow down there cowboy, you're suggesting that drugs don't impair judgement. That's obviously not true. I'm not saying people shouldn't be responsible for their own actions, but don't pretend that marijuana doesn't affect behavior.
I've been under the influence of a lot of drugs. Mushrooms impair my judgement. Alcohol impairs my judgement. Marijuana does not impair my judgement at all unless you're talking about the fact that I've smoked weed which changed how I viewed the world when I found out something that was supposed to be horrendously evil wasn't.
I will honestly say that every other drug impairs my judgement, but if you really think Marijuana does, then you're probably just fucked up in the head to begin with. People who act different while they're drunk or stoned or around certain groups of people are afraid of being themselves, and only express themselves when they have something to blame externally. It's not the drugs that makes people crazy - it's people that make themselves crazy because they can't accept themselves or reality for what it is.
Would you concede the fact that marijuana "alters" your judgement?
What you are trying to tell us is that weed doesn't change how you think in any way and that's indicative of personal bias more than anything.
On January 17 2013 07:24 MethodSC wrote: Is this thread about spice or synthetic cannabinoids? When you go out and buy spice you have no idea what's in it, how much, and you're taking a huge risk. Sure some people may have died from spice(debatable) but there's a big difference between spice and smoking the pure chemical, so to say "people have died from these chemicals and they're extremely dangerous" is just outrageous. The research has not been done to state a claim either way, as far as how safe it is to use, but most of the studies show that these chemicals have similar benefits that cannabis provides(depends which chemical you're talking about). As far as how carcinogenic or which metabolites they're forming goes, there's TONS of information out there that you can go and look at and decide what you want to do. Personally, I've never had a problem smoking the pure chemicals. Spice on the other hand, can have different long term use effects depending on which herbs they're using, the chemical, although you never REALLY know what you're getting or how they made it. Almost every one of the horror stories you hear about is people who "overdose", freak out, then do something stupid to hurt themselves, or just vomit for a few hours. Point is, do your research before you take random drugs, or you're probably gonna have a bad time.
I sincerely doubt those bags of synthetic cannabinoids coming out of "labs" in china and india are anything close to "pure".
Actually, the purest drugs you can get on the market right now are from labs in china. There was a while where the US was putting out quality stuff but the government has cracked down on it pretty hard within the past 2 years.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
I've shot heroin into my arms a bunch of times and I don't see at all how it is possible to die or overdose from it.
On January 17 2013 07:24 MethodSC wrote: Is this thread about spice or synthetic cannabinoids? When you go out and buy spice you have no idea what's in it, how much, and you're taking a huge risk. Sure some people may have died from spice(debatable) but there's a big difference between spice and smoking the pure chemical, so to say "people have died from these chemicals and they're extremely dangerous" is just outrageous. The research has not been done to state a claim either way, as far as how safe it is to use, but most of the studies show that these chemicals have similar benefits that cannabis provides(depends which chemical you're talking about). As far as how carcinogenic or which metabolites they're forming goes, there's TONS of information out there that you can go and look at and decide what you want to do. Personally, I've never had a problem smoking the pure chemicals. Spice on the other hand, can have different long term use effects depending on which herbs they're using, the chemical, although you never REALLY know what you're getting or how they made it. Almost every one of the horror stories you hear about is people who "overdose", freak out, then do something stupid to hurt themselves, or just vomit for a few hours. Point is, do your research before you take random drugs, or you're probably gonna have a bad time.
I sincerely doubt those bags of synthetic cannabinoids coming out of "labs" in china and india are anything close to "pure".
Actually, the purest drugs you can get on the market right now are from labs in china. There was a while where the US was putting out quality stuff but the government has cracked down on it pretty hard within the past 2 years.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
I've shot heroin into my arms a bunch of times and I don't see at all how it is possible to die or overdose from it.
Do you see the point I'm making?
This is not a definitive thing. Some places have better local access than others. Also, you forgot about India.
If any of you heros think you cant die off of it. Load a 3 gram bowl of it in a bong. Smoke the whole bowl in one hit, hold it in long as you can. Then come back to post about it..
I consider it like slapping god in the face, fake < real. Same concept applies to boobs. In all seriousness though, smoke the real stuff, you're just asking for trouble with synthetic drugs. ^^ lol snapping a 3g bowl of anything will mess you up, purely from oxygen deprivation.
On January 17 2013 02:41 Slakkoo wrote: A guy I knew recently died from using synthetic
wut? a friend of mine has smoked this for years and he's fine, ive smoked it myself alot of times and im also fine - in fact i know at least 5 people who has smoked huuuuge amounts of this and they are still alive and not having any side effects from it.
Synthetic cannabis is usually stronger than normal natural cannabis, it tastes a bit differently though - effects are exactly the same from my experience. Only that synthetics pack a bit more punch and you will feel it faster
There's no way this is true. Synthetic cannabis scientifically cannot cause a high like normal cannabis, all it does is fire up your cannabinoid receptors iirc but that doesn't mean you are high. At best it stops cravings.
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
Slow down there cowboy, you're suggesting that drugs don't impair judgement. That's obviously not true. I'm not saying people shouldn't be responsible for their own actions, but don't pretend that marijuana doesn't affect behavior.
I will honestly say that every other drug impairs my judgement, but if you really think Marijuana does, then you're probably just fucked up in the head to begin with.
Oh dear. Am I getting paid for this? Because I'm doing the job that your elementary teachers and counselors seemed to neglect.
You see, when you inhale cannabis smoke, cannabinoids are filtered through your cannabinoid receptors in the human brain. This affects the brain on a physical level. The human brain is the source of all of your judgement. Altering it physically alters your judgement.
You seem to be tragically uneducated if you think people use weed for the taste. It's a drug, and it makes you act differently. I can't believe you're arguing with well-known facts. I'm not even the slightest bit anti-marijuana, but it's just obvious.
The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
I agree the natural arguement is a silly one. Poison Ivy is natural too im not going to go roll around in it. There are so many things you can point to that shows marijuana is harmless. The fact that its natural is not one of them.
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
I hate it when people argue "it's a plant, not a drug."
Ok. And cocaine is a powder, not a drug. And an ak-47 is a piece of metal, not a weapon. Since when are "plant" and "drug" mutually exclusive terms?
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
That argument isn't really up in the forefront on why people argue for the legalization of Marijuana, there are many other reasons on why Marijuana should be a legal drug to be used. I agree that saying something is natural means it is beneficial for you, I just rarely hear it being used seriously. I think these designer drugs are just extremely ridiculous to use though because of the fact that there has been no scientific research on the long term effects and they are just plain dangerous.
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
Yes, I cringe when I read this too. I wrote a multi-paragraph rant on this very issue but deleted it instead of posting. It is an unjustified prejudice people have.
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
Yeah I agree. All drugs are just a way to manipulate brain chemicals like serotonin, endorphin etc doesn't make a difference where it comes from.
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
That argument isn't really up in the forefront on why people argue for the legalization of Marijuana, there are many other reasons on why Marijuana should be a legal drug to be used. I agree that saying something is natural means it is beneficial for you, I just rarely hear it being used seriously. I think these designer drugs are just extremely ridiculous to use though because of the fact that there has been no scientific research on the long term effects and they are just plain dangerous.
I was watching some more episodes of "Drugs Inc," and the comments section is packed full of people using that silly argument. It gets on my nerves.
If you wanna argue that marijuana should be legal and is relatively harmless, you're on very concrete grounds. But once you throw in fallacious arguments like "it's a plant" or "it doesn't affect your judgement in any way," you just make marijuana supporters look bad.
@Liberal: Should have posted your rant :p I would've read it.
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
That argument isn't really up in the forefront on why people argue for the legalization of Marijuana, there are many other reasons on why Marijuana should be a legal drug to be used. I agree that saying something is natural means it is beneficial for you, I just rarely hear it being used seriously. I think these designer drugs are just extremely ridiculous to use though because of the fact that there has been no scientific research on the long term effects and they are just plain dangerous.
I was watching some more episodes of "Drugs Inc," and the comments section is packed full of people using that silly argument. It gets on my nerves.
If you wanna argue that marijuana should be legal and is relatively harmless, you're on very concrete grounds. But once you throw in fallacious arguments like "it's a plant" or "it doesn't affect your judgement in any way," you just make marijuana supporters look bad.
@Liberal: Should have posted your rant :p I would've read it.
Yeah totally agree, both sides should really research what they are advocating for before they make themselves look like a fool. That goes for every argument anyways.
I've smoked it once and have no desire to try it again. I smoke a decent amount of weed but that stuff was just nasty paranoia and had to sit there trying to keep my composure. Luckily I only took a hit or two and it didn't last very long at all.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I smoked k2 a few times(like twice 1 or 2 hits at most) and I felt nothing bad, then i smoked basically an entire joint myself and had one of the worst experiences in my life. It was absolutely nothing like weed. I have never had a panic attack in my life so I have no point of reference, but I would guess what I experienced was very similar (if not definitely) a panic attack. I would NEVER recommend it to anyone. Stick to regular weed 100%.
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
Slow down there cowboy, you're suggesting that drugs don't impair judgement. That's obviously not true. I'm not saying people shouldn't be responsible for their own actions, but don't pretend that marijuana doesn't affect behavior.
I've been under the influence of a lot of drugs. Mushrooms impair my judgement. Alcohol impairs my judgement. Marijuana does not impair my judgement at all unless you're talking about the fact that I've smoked weed which changed how I viewed the world when I found out something that was supposed to be horrendously evil wasn't.
I will honestly say that every other drug impairs my judgement, but if you really think Marijuana does, then you're probably just fucked up in the head to begin with. People who act different while they're drunk or stoned or around certain groups of people are afraid of being themselves, and only express themselves when they have something to blame externally. It's not the drugs that makes people crazy - it's people that make themselves crazy because they can't accept themselves or reality for what it is.
Would you concede the fact that marijuana "alters" your judgement?
What you are trying to tell us is that weed doesn't change how you think in any way and that's indicative of personal bias more than anything.
My 2 cents on this dicussion based on years of sporadic marijuana use (smoking everyday for months, not at all for months, every other week, every other day, ect; my habits differed a lot over the years based on many factors.)
- I see no connection with my overall quality of life and marijuana use - I see no connection with motivation (in regards to studies, work, social life, sports/esports performance) with marijuana use. I am often struck by utter absence of motivation (and other symptoms of depression) but cannot see any correlation to marijuana use. I also associate 'laziness' to lack of motivation, and again I see no correlation to Marijuana use. - I see no relationship between Marijuana and poor judgement; I cannot say I have poor decisions while using marijuana than in a sober phase. - I see no link between my performance in sports (I mainly play soccer, heavy on the cardio, so there) and marijuana use; in fact I do enjoy running and working out much more whilst high. - I see no withdrawal symptoms of marijuana other than trouble falling asleep the 1-3 days after repetitive evening use.
I spent 3 years with a girl who hated weed with a passion. Made me think about this a lot. I'd really think about my mood and life and try to relate it to smoking. And the years go by and I don't see the 'negative impacts' of marijuana like impaired judgement or laziness or that stuff. Ya sometimes I'm lazy and I procrastinate and maybe I could work harder in college, but it's not like I'm any different when I don't smoke for a long time. If I'm falling behind on my work and I get high and fall more behind, it's my own damn fault, I can't blame 'drug addiction' forcing me to get high. If I didn't have weed I would just not get high and still get nothing like I'm doing right now. Sometimes I'm just not motivated to work and sometimes I am, but when you sum it up I'm doing fine in life. It doesn't have anything to do with weed.
Idk why people say things like 'stop smoking weed you lazy bum' instead of 'stop being lazy.' If he wasn't lazy you wouldn't make any comment about his marijuana use, so maybe you should consider that it's not the problem.
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
That argument isn't really up in the forefront on why people argue for the legalization of Marijuana, there are many other reasons on why Marijuana should be a legal drug to be used. I agree that saying something is natural means it is beneficial for you, I just rarely hear it being used seriously. I think these designer drugs are just extremely ridiculous to use though because of the fact that there has been no scientific research on the long term effects and they are just plain dangerous.
I was watching some more episodes of "Drugs Inc," and the comments section is packed full of people using that silly argument. It gets on my nerves.
If you wanna argue that marijuana should be legal and is relatively harmless, you're on very concrete grounds. But once you throw in fallacious arguments like "it's a plant" or "it doesn't affect your judgement in any way," you just make marijuana supporters look bad.
@Liberal: Should have posted your rant :p I would've read it.
Yeah totally agree, both sides should really research what they are advocating for before they make themselves look like a fool. That goes for every argument anyways.
That's how I feel about drugs too, of all kinds. One should inform themselves of what they are putting into their body and what it will do to one's body. Just the fact that these gas station drugs that are largely untested and constantly change their formula is enough to be incredibly wary of them and probably stay away, since it's so hard to tell exactly what you are getting and nigh impossible to know the long term effects. The little that is known about them so far is mostly bad, so it's probably a good idea to stay away for now. Basically, I'm for drugs (they're everywhere in modern life now), but I'm against ignorance.
@Amityville Poison Ivy and Poison Sumac are actually related, poison sumac is the stronger, but less common cousin of poison ivy and poison oak, you'll get the same effects and rash from all of them though. I just chose poison sumac because it's also a plant (i.e. "natural") that is specifically known to be possibly fatal, if not just incredibly painful, when inhaled as smoke (imagine getting a poison ivy rash inside your lungs. worst case your lungs fill up and you drown in your own blood).
Wow, that chick who had multiple strokes from this stuff is enough to keep me the hell away from it. I'm normally down for some experimentation and moderate usage of drugs though.
Also, I think the OP sounds like he has substance abuse problems and he should deal with those. If you can't resist getting high it's time to get help.
On January 17 2013 10:05 TheFrankOne wrote: Wow, that chick who had multiple strokes from this stuff is enough to keep me the hell away from it. I'm normally down for some experimentation and moderate usage of drugs though.
Also, I think the OP sounds like he has substance abuse problems and he should deal with those. If you can't resist getting high it's time to get help.
I'm being forced to quit through drug tests (homeless shelter that I'll be going to shortly and job) so I don't think it'll be a problem for me any more. It's kind of embarrassing that I managed to get addicted to weed lol, but I haven't smoked in a week and I've been staying away from spice as well. I think I'll be fine.
How exactly does the DEA have something right? You can still go into almost any gas station in America and buy this stuff while Marijuana remains illegal in 48 states.
Here's my experience with synthetic cannabis. I used it almost daily for about a year. I also have an addictive personality. First started with blends from my local tobacco store, then I moved on and found a reliable source online for the last month of usage that sold just the product by itself without it being sprayed onto leaf materiel. It looked either like tan or white powder.
Three times I had a panic attack from smoking too much, but never seizures or strokes. Some of the blends will give you a shortness of breath until you get used to it, which was kind of scary. The panic attacks that I had can be characterized having negative thoughts and my heart beating very fast. I thought how vulnerable we are as people, waiting to die any day to anything, so easily, I couldn't stop thinking about this until after 5-10 minutes when the initial rush of the high wore off. Also I wouldn't recommend getting drunk off your ass then smoking this stuff because it felt like it made me mysteriously tired and it felt like my body was suppressed. Those experiences were just as bad.
For the most part I enjoyed it and it would be awesome to smoke a hit or two then play a game of league of legends. That's what I miss most of it. I realized that the powder stuff was really potent and I didn't want to go through the whole stash. Also I noticed people can get very addicted to synthetic cannabis from what I saw on other forums, and I thought that by the time my stash of two grams was gone, I might slip into a physical addiction. Thanks to me putting my foot down, I have been clean for 4 months. I notice nothing different but I have a smokers cough because I think those blends that the product is sprayed onto plant leafs produce very harsh and thick smoke( I was also smoking out of a water pipe taking large hits.)
Definitely recommend real cannabis over this stuff. There are hundreds of tests on marijuana, which is always the same except for the strains. You're basically a lab rat if you are smoking this stuff on a daily basis. Good luck.
On January 17 2013 19:44 awezome wrote: Here's my experience with synthetic cannabis. I used it almost daily for about a year. I also have an addictive personality. First started with blends from my local tobacco store, then I moved on and found a reliable source online for the last month of usage that sold just the product by itself without it being sprayed onto leaf materiel. It looked either like tan or white powder.
Three times I had a panic attack from smoking too much, but never seizures or strokes. Some of the blends will give you a shortness of breath until you get used to it, which was kind of scary. The panic attacks that I had can be characterized having negative thoughts and my heart beating very fast. I thought how vulnerable we are as people, waiting to die any day to anything, so easily, I couldn't stop thinking about this until after 5-10 minutes when the initial rush of the high wore off. Also I wouldn't recommend getting drunk off your ass then smoking this stuff because it felt like it made me mysteriously tired and it felt like my body was suppressed. Those experiences were just as bad.
For the most part I enjoyed it and it would be awesome to smoke a hit or two then play a game of league of legends. That's what I miss most of it. I realized that the powder stuff was really potent and I didn't want to go through the whole stash. Also I noticed people can get very addicted to synthetic cannabis from what I saw on other forums, and I thought that by the time my stash of two grams was gone, I might slip into a physical addiction. Thanks to me putting my foot down, I have been clean for 4 months. I notice nothing different but I have a smokers cough because I think those blends that the product is sprayed onto plant leafs produce very harsh and thick smoke( I was also smoking out of a water pipe taking large hits.)
Definitely recommend real cannabis over this stuff. There are hundreds of tests on marijuana, which is always the same except for the strains. You're basically a lab rat if you are smoking this stuff on a daily basis. Good luck.
yeah first time i smoked this stuff i smoked a little too much, had a pretty bad panic attack exactly like you described. Its incredibly potent
a few years ago when I first started smoking, I'd get the synthetic stuff because it was easier to get. but once weed is available there's no reason to choose synthetic over weed. One time I actually bought a few grams of JWH (018 i think) powder and mixed it with weed. that was the last time i'll ever use synthetic.
the extra paranoia it causes is just too much. and I started getting weird headaches while I was sober
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
I hate it when people argue "it's a plant, not a drug."
Ok. And cocaine is a powder, not a drug. And an ak-47 is a piece of metal, not a weapon. Since when are "plant" and "drug" mutually exclusive terms?
I differentiate between plants and drugs on these grounds: Drugs require human refinement. Plants grow naturally. Therefore, marijuana is a plant. Coca leaf is a plant. Opium poppies are plants. Cocaine is a drug. Heroin is a drug.
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
Slow down there cowboy, you're suggesting that drugs don't impair judgement. That's obviously not true. I'm not saying people shouldn't be responsible for their own actions, but don't pretend that marijuana doesn't affect behavior.
I've been under the influence of a lot of drugs. Mushrooms impair my judgement. Alcohol impairs my judgement. Marijuana does not impair my judgement at all unless you're talking about the fact that I've smoked weed which changed how I viewed the world when I found out something that was supposed to be horrendously evil wasn't.
I will honestly say that every other drug impairs my judgement, but if you really think Marijuana does, then you're probably just fucked up in the head to begin with. People who act different while they're drunk or stoned or around certain groups of people are afraid of being themselves, and only express themselves when they have something to blame externally. It's not the drugs that makes people crazy - it's people that make themselves crazy because they can't accept themselves or reality for what it is.
Would you concede the fact that marijuana "alters" your judgement?
What you are trying to tell us is that weed doesn't change how you think in any way and that's indicative of personal bias more than anything.
My 2 cents on this dicussion based on years of sporadic marijuana use (smoking everyday for months, not at all for months, every other week, every other day, ect; my habits differed a lot over the years based on many factors.)
- I see no connection with my overall quality of life and marijuana use - I see no connection with motivation (in regards to studies, work, social life, sports/esports performance) with marijuana use. I am often struck by utter absence of motivation (and other symptoms of depression) but cannot see any correlation to marijuana use. I also associate 'laziness' to lack of motivation, and again I see no correlation to Marijuana use. - I see no relationship between Marijuana and poor judgement; I cannot say I have poor decisions while using marijuana than in a sober phase. - I see no link between my performance in sports (I mainly play soccer, heavy on the cardio, so there) and marijuana use; in fact I do enjoy running and working out much more whilst high. - I see no withdrawal symptoms of marijuana other than trouble falling asleep the 1-3 days after repetitive evening use.
I spent 3 years with a girl who hated weed with a passion. Made me think about this a lot. I'd really think about my mood and life and try to relate it to smoking. And the years go by and I don't see the 'negative impacts' of marijuana like impaired judgement or laziness or that stuff. Ya sometimes I'm lazy and I procrastinate and maybe I could work harder in college, but it's not like I'm any different when I don't smoke for a long time. If I'm falling behind on my work and I get high and fall more behind, it's my own damn fault, I can't blame 'drug addiction' forcing me to get high. If I didn't have weed I would just not get high and still get nothing like I'm doing right now. Sometimes I'm just not motivated to work and sometimes I am, but when you sum it up I'm doing fine in life. It doesn't have anything to do with weed.
Idk why people say things like 'stop smoking weed you lazy bum' instead of 'stop being lazy.' If he wasn't lazy you wouldn't make any comment about his marijuana use, so maybe you should consider that it's not the problem.
I'm not saying that there is ANY problem at all. I'm just making it known that marijuana alters your judgement.
I smoked an ounce a week during college, trust me, I have no problem with weed and think that if everyone hit a blunt once or twice the world would be a better place. It would be a better place because weed alters your judgement.
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
I hate it when people argue "it's a plant, not a drug."
Ok. And cocaine is a powder, not a drug. And an ak-47 is a piece of metal, not a weapon. Since when are "plant" and "drug" mutually exclusive terms?
I differentiate between plants and drugs on these grounds: Drugs require human refinement. Plants grow naturally. Therefore, marijuana is a plant. Coca leaf is a plant. Opium poppies are plants. Cocaine is a drug. Heroin is a drug.
Does that help you understand a little?
"A drug is a substance which may have medicinal, intoxicating, performance enhancing or other effects when taken or put into a human body or the body of another animal and is not considered a food or exclusively a food."
You can use make up a definition to a word and pretend that it's the actual definition, but don't ever use that in an argument. I don't think any person would argue that psilocybe mushrooms are not a drug. Also, why does it matter if it's refined by humans? If we found a plant that naturally grew opium molecules, does that delete opium's status as a drug? If cannabis never existed on earth, and we found a way to manufacture the THC molecule, then you'd be against it because it's a drug?
When I roll up a joint, I'm doing it to get high. If I inject heroine, I'm doing it to get high. One is more dangerous than the other, but they're both drugs. I don't see how the source makes any difference.
On January 16 2013 14:42 CursOr wrote: The tests for MJ test for many other cannaboids that stay in the system much longer than THC.
I smoked Marijuana for many years, but after I stopped I realized that the worst part about it was that it made me so damn content to just do nothing with my life. I was too lazy, messed up college real bad, and had no job/ or crappy jobs- and after I put it away, I started actually doing things. How crazy is that?
Not that crazy. All you did was attach your marijuana use with irresponsibility, so when you threw out marijuana, of course you felt like you were doing more.
What you're completely ignoring is the fact that you had complete control of what you were doing while stoned. Don't blame marijuana because you're a lazy ass hole. Blame yourself.
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
I hate it when people argue "it's a plant, not a drug."
Ok. And cocaine is a powder, not a drug. And an ak-47 is a piece of metal, not a weapon. Since when are "plant" and "drug" mutually exclusive terms?
I differentiate between plants and drugs on these grounds: Drugs require human refinement. Plants grow naturally. Therefore, marijuana is a plant. Coca leaf is a plant. Opium poppies are plants. Cocaine is a drug. Heroin is a drug.
Does that help you understand a little?
"A drug is a substance which may have medicinal, intoxicating, performance enhancing or other effects when taken or put into a human body or the body of another animal and is not considered a food or exclusively a food."
You can use make up a definition to a word and pretend that it's the actual definition, but don't ever use that in an argument. I don't think any person would argue that psilocybe mushrooms are not a drug. Also, why does it matter if it's refined by humans? If we found a plant that naturally grew opium molecules, does that delete opium's status as a drug? If cannabis never existed on earth, and we found a way to manufacture the THC molecule, then you'd be against it because it's a drug?
When I roll up a joint, I'm doing it to get high. If I inject heroine, I'm doing it to get high. One is more dangerous than the other, but they're both drugs. I don't see how the source makes any difference.
There is a plant that naturally grows opium molecules. It's called an opium poppy. You probably don't understand enough about what I'm saying to really get my point.
What I'm saying is that, using your example, a psilocybe cubensis is a mushroom. It contains psilocin and psilocybin, which are drugs. That does not change the mushroom into a drug, it's just a container for a molecule which we extract and define as a drug. Tea leaves contain caffeine. That does not make a tea leaf a drug. It's still a leaf. If you extract and refine the caffeine into a powder, then, yeah, that's a drug. Tea leaves are not drugs.
I'm not against drugs. I fucking love drugs. I'm against uneducated prejudices, and that's why we're having this argument.
[edit] Also, it's "heroin", not "heroine". [/edit]
On January 17 2013 08:59 Fyrewolf wrote: The whole marijuana is natural(and therefore okay) argument goes beyond being silly into the domain of stupidity. Poison sumac is natural, and inhaling smoke from that plant can be fatal. I do think regular marijuana is alright and not terrible for you (unlike these synthetic designer drugs, which are often terrible for you), but that reasoning just makes me cringe. Natural /= good for you.
I hate it when people argue "it's a plant, not a drug."
Ok. And cocaine is a powder, not a drug. And an ak-47 is a piece of metal, not a weapon. Since when are "plant" and "drug" mutually exclusive terms?
I differentiate between plants and drugs on these grounds: Drugs require human refinement. Plants grow naturally. Therefore, marijuana is a plant. Coca leaf is a plant. Opium poppies are plants. Cocaine is a drug. Heroin is a drug.
Does that help you understand a little?
"A drug is a substance which may have medicinal, intoxicating, performance enhancing or other effects when taken or put into a human body or the body of another animal and is not considered a food or exclusively a food."
You can use make up a definition to a word and pretend that it's the actual definition, but don't ever use that in an argument. I don't think any person would argue that psilocybe mushrooms are not a drug. Also, why does it matter if it's refined by humans? If we found a plant that naturally grew opium molecules, does that delete opium's status as a drug? If cannabis never existed on earth, and we found a way to manufacture the THC molecule, then you'd be against it because it's a drug?
When I roll up a joint, I'm doing it to get high. If I inject heroine, I'm doing it to get high. One is more dangerous than the other, but they're both drugs. I don't see how the source makes any difference.
There is a plant that naturally grows opium molecules. It's called an opium poppy. You probably don't understand enough about what I'm saying to really get my point.
What I'm saying is that, using your example, a psilocybe cubensis is a mushroom. It contains psilocin and psilocybin, which are drugs. That does not change the mushroom into a drug, it's just a container for a molecule which we extract and define as a drug. Tea leaves contain caffeine. That does not make a tea leaf a drug. It's still a leaf. If you extract and refine the caffeine into a powder, then, yeah, that's a drug. Tea leaves are not drugs.
I'm not against drugs. I fucking love drugs. I'm against uneducated prejudices, and that's why we're having this argument.
[edit] Also, it's "heroin", not "heroine". [/edit]
Isn't that just arguing semantics though? Saying that the plant/fungus itself is not a drug it just contains drugs, that is, and it also depends on what definition you look at anyway. When you eat a psilocybin mushroom, you are primarily taking a drug, and only by accessory ingesting the fungal matter it is contained in. Nobody claims that eating a pot brownie or drinking alcohol(which is never 100%) isn't taking drugs, just because what you are ingesting happens to have more than just the unadulterated molecule defined as a drug, even pills you get from the doctor have filler in addition to the active drug ingredient. The plant/fungus/whatever may technically only be the container for the drug, but in a practical sense, what the drug happens to be contained in(be it a plant or a pill or water for alcohol) is a moot point.
It's not, though, because the effects that you get from chewing on a coca leaf and snorting cocaine up your nose are totally different. Dosage is a HUGE part of the experience of any psychoactive substance.
On January 20 2013 20:26 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: It's not, though, because the effects that you get from chewing on a coca leaf and snorting cocaine up your nose are totally different. Dosage is a HUGE part of the experience of any psychoactive substance.
All drugs can effect people differently. Dosage changes the experience, but dosage itself is a limit. If you do to much you die, to little you feel nothing, apply the laws ;D
honestly, who the fuck cares. that is one of the most pointless arguments i have ever seen.
drug is one of the most abused words in the english language. in almost every context i hear it used it, there is a less general word that should have been used. right or wrong (generally wrong), everybody seems to have their own definition of what a 'drug' is and associations attached to it. which is maybe how politicians have managed to baselessly resist research for so long.
On January 20 2013 20:48 anycolourfloyd wrote: honestly, who the fuck cares. that is one of the most pointless arguments i have ever seen.
drug is one of the most abused words in the english language. in almost every context i hear it used it, there is a less general word that should have been used. right or wrong (generally wrong), everybody seems to have their own definition of what a 'drug' is and associations attached to it. which is maybe how politicians have managed to baselessly resist research for so long.
On January 20 2013 20:48 anycolourfloyd wrote: honestly, who the fuck cares. that is one of the most pointless arguments i have ever seen.
drug is one of the most abused words in the english language. in almost every context i hear it used it, there is a less general word that should have been used. right or wrong (generally wrong), everybody seems to have their own definition of what a 'drug' is and associations attached to it. which is maybe how politicians have managed to baselessly resist research for so long.
I care, and the dude I quoted cares. You don't. There's a clear point in defining at what point a plant or fungus becomes a drug because it has to do with legality in modern society. Especially when you can get locked up in federal prison for it.
Basically every drug that we can synthesize nowadays is based on a chemical structure that we have extracted from a natural source. At what point did the drug become separate from the plant? When we refined it or extracted it. Before that point, it was a flower or a leaf or some kind of secretion (or root or fungus or whatever).
I mean, yes, I'm providing my own definition here, but it's not like the dictionary definition existed when the universe was created. We made it up in the first place and we can change it. That's how language evolves.
I don't really like the term synthetic cannabis. It reminds me of all those scare stories where the media would brand a drug 'legal lsd' or 'legal pot' even if the effects or dangers are nothing like it, and consequently giving these existing drugs a bad name. If I see a term like 'synthetic cannabis' I would immediately assume it is talking about synthesized THC in a pill.
On January 20 2013 20:48 anycolourfloyd wrote: honestly, who the fuck cares. that is one of the most pointless arguments i have ever seen.
drug is one of the most abused words in the english language. in almost every context i hear it used it, there is a less general word that should have been used. right or wrong (generally wrong), everybody seems to have their own definition of what a 'drug' is and associations attached to it. which is maybe how politicians have managed to baselessly resist research for so long.
I care, and the dude I quoted cares. You don't. There's a clear point in defining at what point a plant or fungus becomes a drug because it has to do with legality in modern society. Especially when you can get locked up in federal prison for it.
Basically every drug that we can synthesize nowadays is based on a chemical structure that we have extracted from a natural source. At what point did the drug become separate from the plant? When we refined it or extracted it. Before that point, it was a flower or a leaf or some kind of secretion (or root or fungus or whatever).
I mean, yes, I'm providing my own definition here, but it's not like the dictionary definition existed when the universe was created. We made it up in the first place and we can change it. That's how language evolves.
Also, mine is much more clear and functional.
Thank you for clarifying your definition. I thought it might be something like that where by refining you also meant extracting the chemical, but I wasn't entirely sure from your previous posts. I do think the definitions are a little too loose and let almost anything fall into them, and probably need some updating.
Zerg, here's how I see it: If you use something to alter your brain chemistry for recreational or medical use, it's a drug.
Because there's no other word that "marijuana" and "meth" both fit. But they're clearly in the same category of usage. They have different effects, but they're used for the same reason (to get high). There has to be some word that generally means "things you use to get buzzed or high" and that word happens to be "drug." I think you're just making things more difficult when you try to put different mind-altering substances into their own categories, instead of having a term that fits all of them.
Of course, people abuse this by saying shit like "marijuana is a drug, so it's dangerous," but just because those people are fuckwits doesn't mean we should have to change our vocabulary.
Like most drugs, this is how I see it; don't do them, just don't. The benefits are heavily outweighed by the costs. The costs of not doing weed are 0 (except for the possible lack of a high, but that can be gotten in other ways), the costs of doing are monetary, time, and a lack of initiative in some cases, as THC causes one to be heavily over-content with where one is in life. Synthetics are even worse about it and have been shown to do serious harm to the body, or cause psychosis like a previous poster said about his godfather in korea. Being honest here, it is a life choice, but doing synthetic weed is just a bad idea. The benefits vs costs of doing weed are much higher than the benefits vs costs of doing synthetics. You have added dangers with synthetics and even if the synthetics are legal, that doesn't make them not shady. I'm biased because I don't do drugs, but synthetics just seem like a really bad idea to do.
Please no one take Synthetic anything. If you wanna smoke something smoke actual weed. My brother was put in the hospital a few months back from artificial stuff. It is not safe
I'd like to see people to be forced be more sensible, educated and considerate in developed countries. Right now pretty much everywhere it's governments duty to patronize citizens which obviously leads to running over people, restraining and to niche problems such as getting illegal drugs because legal drugs won't fit for personal usage.
Might not work in countries where education is already a problem. Oh, I wish education was prioritized better, especially society studies and how propaganda works.
Btw, anyone know how design drugs work in northern countries? off: maybe some posters should use terms 'illegal drug' , 'intoxicant', more actively.
Don't do designer drugs, they are inherently risky. If you want to get high that bad, just smoke the good old-fashioned wonder drug with well-known safety. Legal is not always good, and illegal is not always bad.
dude this stuff is awful, AWFUL. daily pot smoker for life and started getting drug tested same as you. well i loved it at first but then i ended up being TOTALLLY HOOKED needing to smoke all day or else id get HORRIBLE withdrawal anxiety. please quit now man i probably sound like im crazy but please i smoked this stuff daily from 2009-2011 and it is just as bad as oxy contin or any drug like that which i have done plenty of too and was never even as hooked as i was on this stuff. i know its tempting but please dude this stuff while ruin your life and completely take away your motivation
On January 21 2013 11:53 Bahku wrote: Zerg, here's how I see it: If you use something to alter your brain chemistry for recreational or medical use, it's a drug.
Because there's no other word that "marijuana" and "meth" both fit. But they're clearly in the same category of usage. They have different effects, but they're used for the same reason (to get high). There has to be some word that generally means "things you use to get buzzed or high" and that word happens to be "drug." I think you're just making things more difficult when you try to put different mind-altering substances into their own categories, instead of having a term that fits all of them.
Of course, people abuse this by saying shit like "marijuana is a drug, so it's dangerous," but just because those people are fuckwits doesn't mean we should have to change our vocabulary.
There's clearly a difference between types of drugs, as well. An amphetamine does not have anywhere near the same effect as an opiate/narcotic. A psychedelic doesn't do anything like a barbiturate. A tricyclic antidepressant doesn't work anything like caffeine. THC* is totally different from other drugs in a qualitative sense, as well.
I'm just saying that it's really important to be very specific as to what we're talking about for the purposes of discussion. That's just the social scientist in me. I like to start out by clearly defining what I'm talking about so that everyone can be on the same page.
On January 24 2013 12:00 Marcus420 wrote: bahhh this documentary reeks of sensationalism.
Yes they are bad for you but give me a break.
No, they're really, really bad for you, dude. You're much better off doing many other recreational drugs. Amphetamine is much safer and so is moderate amounts of cocaine or ecstasy. Weed is obviously better for you than the synthetic stuff.
On January 21 2013 11:53 Bahku wrote: Zerg, here's how I see it: If you use something to alter your brain chemistry for recreational or medical use, it's a drug.
Because there's no other word that "marijuana" and "meth" both fit. But they're clearly in the same category of usage. They have different effects, but they're used for the same reason (to get high). There has to be some word that generally means "things you use to get buzzed or high" and that word happens to be "drug." I think you're just making things more difficult when you try to put different mind-altering substances into their own categories, instead of having a term that fits all of them.
Of course, people abuse this by saying shit like "marijuana is a drug, so it's dangerous," but just because those people are fuckwits doesn't mean we should have to change our vocabulary.
There's clearly a difference between types of drugs, as well. An amphetamine does not have anywhere near the same effect as an opiate/narcotic. A psychedelic doesn't do anything like a barbiturate. A tricyclic antidepressant doesn't work anything like caffeine. THC* is totally different from other drugs in a qualitative sense, as well.
I'm just saying that it's really important to be very specific as to what we're talking about for the purposes of discussion. That's just the social scientist in me. I like to start out by clearly defining what I'm talking about so that everyone can be on the same page.
Kind of silly to compare sensory inputs causing natural changes in brain chemistry to compounds which change your brain/blood chemistry in ways that, generally speaking, don't happen naturally. Yes, they both affect your view of the world and your emotional state, but they're still apples and oranges (which are both fruit, but behave differently).
On January 24 2013 12:00 Marcus420 wrote: bahhh this documentary reeks of sensationalism.
Yes they are bad for you but give me a break.
No, they're really, really bad for you, dude. You're much better off doing many other recreational drugs. Amphetamine is much safer and so is moderate amounts of cocaine or ecstasy. Weed is obviously better for you than the synthetic stuff.
I agree completely, but i dont like the scare tactic approach the video takes.
I've actually done mephedrone which is mentioned in this video alot.
Its very speedy and a little bit of empathy. If you do it a few times you can feel yourself going a bit crazy
I only did it a couple times and vowed to never touch RC's again (research chemicals)
I think the point of this thread has pretty much come down to this
Synthetics are bad for you
People in here disagree on what constitutes a drug
Synthetics are really bad for you
People in here disagree on whether or not a drug holding entity is a drug itself
Synthetics are really fucking bad for you
am I somewhat accurate here? I don't understand why we aren't talking about synthetics anymore, other than the fact that I think we have established they are very bad for you, and now we are discussing what consitutes a drug. I think that deserves another thread all by itself though :/.
so they release a new one instantly after the gov bans the current ones. so my question is, how many different variants can they come up with? Is there an almost infinite number of variants they can make (as in, this stuff is never going away)?
Drugs, an interesting thing that has always sparked my curiosity. I often wonder and am tempted. Not gonna lie though, I wouldn't ever trust myself with any of it... I can't even control myself enough to do homework sometimes. How the fuck am I going to control the use of an addictive drug .-.
Don't worry about that. As example my doctor prescribed me to use CBD, to reduce pain and insomnia. Such product has really good points to use not just for fun, but in medal way as well. So once again don't worry, i am pretty sure you have great sleep and you feel yourself fresh when you woke up. Part of my family as well is using some cbd flowers. The most important is to find best cbd hemp vendors, where you will be sure that you will buy good products, where is different sorts. I was able to find one for myself.
EPT
These synthetic cannabinoids are full agonists of the CB1/CB2 receptors, whereas natural THC is only a partial agonist. This means it is possible to "overdose" in a way with synthetics which is not possible with weed, which is what has caused the few horror stories I'm assuming. So I only tried a small amount.
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