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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Anyone have predictions on who Trump picks for the Supreme Court? He said it'll be announced in 7 days
On January 27 2017 12:29 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2017 12:26 zlefin wrote: legal -> I've read quite a bit on the tpp, and that's an interesting article oyu add; however I find your claims about the electorate being ignored to be unfounded, and your concerns about the arbitration courts and other such things unfounded; it looks more like a diatribe put forth without an actual serious thoughtful understanding of the issues. I'm also concerned by your use of the term "vassal state" in describing canada.
plas -> dunno, haven't looked at a list of everything he's done so far. can't think of anything definite offhand, but I'd have to do a full review, and there might well be something inj there. in general, unobjectionable and widely supported actions tend to get far less press coverage, because noone cares ot read about them. so something good might have happened and not been heard of. just like the bipartisan work on dealing with the opioid problem got little attention. Here's a list of executive actions at least. And a list from politico dated 25-th of January. I love how there's an insults category, then I remember that this is legitimately our president now
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Sweden33719 Posts
On January 27 2017 12:10 ticklishmusic wrote:Seen on the White House website: Praise for President Trump's Bold ActionThis is the saddest thing I've seen all day, and I watched an ASPCA commercial earlier. Maybe it's time we merge this thread with the "north Korea says/doew alarming things" thread?
Seriously that's what I thought I was reading with a headline like that..
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On January 27 2017 12:55 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2017 12:24 mustaju wrote:On January 27 2017 12:18 oneofthem wrote:On January 27 2017 12:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 27 2017 11:37 zlefin wrote: plasma -> i'd disagree on the tpp on two fronts. first, trump didn't kill the tpp, he just officially ended the plan for it. it was in practice dead in the water anyway though, as the senate would not have approved it, and that was the impression before the election as well. also, imho the tpp would in fact be good for america (very slightly). On January 27 2017 11:45 mustaju wrote:On January 27 2017 11:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I think the real question is- and I'm legitimately curious about it- has Trump done anything yet that's not completely idiotic or bad for this country or its people? The only thing I can think of is that he killed the TPP. I think that's it. Without TPP, the US is ceding the largest market in the world to China. Could TPP be far better? Yes. But if China replaces the US in the TPP, US products will be copied and sold for a quarter of the price with no real deterrent, I can't see that being beneficial for the US.There are downsides of course, I just wanted to insert a pro TPP argument, since the discussion of it tends to be only negaitve. Those are definitely fair counterpoints. I think there were a few other good points that were theorycrafted as well: "The pact aimed to deepen economic ties between these nations, slashing tariffs and fostering trade to boost growth. Members had also hoped to foster a closer relationship on economic policies and regulation." http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32498715 "According to research by the Peterson Institute, the deal would have increased U.S. exports by $123 billion. Using back-of-the-envelope math, Obama's White House had estimated an increase of 650,000 jobs." http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/why-trump-killed-tpp-why-it-matters-you-n710781 I'm not sure if everything would have worked out this well in practice, but certainly there are both pros and cons to the TPP! So, just to reword my original question and clarify it: Is there anything Trump has said or signed or done so far that's actually going to be a clear net-positive for America? as i said earlier, higher avocado prices You are marketing it wrong. It's "Deluxe quality Guacamole material". The higher price signifies quality. You're complicating it--it's called alternative discounts.
I like avocados Curse you, Trump.
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On January 27 2017 12:58 plasmidghost wrote: Anyone have predictions on who Trump picks for the Supreme Court? He said it'll be announced in 7 days
He said the Obamacare replacement was coming out a week ago, don't set your clock by his promised ETAs.
Also, if anyone wants a non-Rasmussen poll on Trump's approval that actually allows people to be undecided and doesn't arbitrarily calculate favorability purely from people with "strong" responses, his first five days aren't so hot in Quinnipiac: 36 approve-44 disapprove.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
trump also caused the fed to stop hiring new economists. that's some direct revenge against the globalist elite.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
An addition to the anti-TPP case that argues that it compromises security as it makes the supply chain of US technology more fragile:
The Republican and Democratic conventions showcased an extraordinarily rare point of bipartisan consensus: stopping the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). Yet, in the dog days of summer, Americans have received a rude awakening that the unpopular 12-nation trade deal is still on the table. This past Friday, President Obama put Congress on notice that a vote on TPP is coming in the lame duck period after the election. While the President recently conceded that TPP critics are “coming from a sincere concern about the position of workers and wages in this country,” he's also been hammering home a familiar and often-unchallenged fallback case for trade agreements: that TPP is essential for foreign policy and national security priorities. As a retired Brigadier General and 30-year veteran of the U.S. Army, I’ve long considered arguments for trade deals as national security strategies, including arguments for the TPP specifically as a “way to keep the peace in the Pacific” and counter China as it “flexes its economic and military muscle.” While I respect President Obama and the pact’s military backers, I believe these arguments miss a crucial point: By facilitating the further offshoring of America’s manufacturing base, the trade pact would actually undermine America’s military readiness and global economic standing. TPP would hurt our national security interests more than it would help. In 2013, the Pentagon’s Defense Science Board put forward a remarkable report describing one of the most significant but little-recognized threats to US security: deindustrialization. The report argued that the loss of domestic U.S. manufacturing facilities has not only reduced U.S. living standards but also compromised U.S. technology leadership “by enabling new players to learn a technology and then gain the capability to improve on it.” The report explained that the offshoring of U.S. manufacturing presents a particularly dangerous threat to U.S. military readiness through the “compromise of the supply chain for key weapons systems components.” I’ve seen these offshoring risks firsthand. Our military is now shockingly vulnerable to major disruptions in the supply chain, including from substandard manufacturing practices, natural disasters, and price gouging by foreign nations. Poor manufacturing practices in offshore factories lead to problem-plagued products, and foreign producers—acting on the basis of their own military or economic interests—can sharply raise prices or reduce or stop sales to the United States. The link between TPP and this kind of offshoring has been well-established. The proposed deal would not only repeat but magnify the mistakes of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), offering extraordinary privileges to companies that move operations overseas. Just this spring, an official U.S. government study by the International Trade Commission noted that the pact would further gut the U.S. manufacturing sector. This, following the loss of 5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000, is a perilous proposition. Foreign policy and national security have long been the arguments of last resort for backers of controversial trade deals. A quarter century ago, we were warned that, unless NAFTA and deals with eight Latin American nations were enacted, China would come to dominate trade in the hemisphere. NAFTA passed, but America’s share of goods imported by Mexico fell, while China’s share rose by a staggering 2,600 percent. Today, following the implementation of several additional major trade deals, we’re still waiting for China to comply with its WTO commitments, and we’re still waiting for progress in dealing with our astronomical trade deficit. While the TPP’s backers present our choice as one of trade versus protectionism, this couldn’t be further from the truth. We already have free trade agreements with the six TPP countries that account for more than 80 percent of the promised trade. Because all TPP nations are currently members of the World Trade Organization, their tariffs have already been cut to minimal levels. Of TPP's 30 chapters, only six deal with traditional trade issues. The rest deal primarily with special privileges for multinational corporations and investors—like establishing the rights of companies to sue governments for cash compensation over the impacts of health and safety regulations. These dominant features of the TPP would vastly expand the rights of multinational firms that do not necessarily represent America’s national interests. Critics of the TPP come from both parties in Congress—and from the business, labor, environmental, consumer, human rights, and defense communities. These diverse players are not opposed to trade. Rather, most simply want a different trade model that facilitates the worthy goal of global engagement without shortchanging American workers, policymaking prerogatives, and national security capacities. While the Obama Administration has been wise to shift our defense and diplomatic attention towards the Asia-Pacific region, it’s now time for a “pivot” in our approach to trade. Brigadier General (Retired) John Adams served more than thirty years in command and staff assignments as an Army Aviator, Military Intelligence Officer, and Foreign Area Officer in Europe, Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. Source
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
it's unclear how the tpp would cause that stuff, considering u.s. advanced manufacturing is highly competitive and not sustained via tariffs. it's sustained through direct investment from programs like the f35, but not through tariffs. ip protection, on the other hand, would protect high tech u.s. industries.
the blog also makes the fairly common mistake of giving the impression that ISDS is a TPP invention, when the TPP restricts the scope of and size of ISDS rewards.
looking deeper, the number for manufacturing contraction is mainly based on a proposed tariff reduction on japanese civilian automobiles. these are not military grade hardware, obviously, and the tariff reduction for these won't kick in for 30 years.
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On January 27 2017 12:07 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On day 5 of Donald Trump’s administration, the president signed two immigration-related executive orders, officially moving forward on some of the key promises of his campaign: deporting undocumented immigrants, building a wall between the US and Mexico, and placing extra scrutiny on immigrants from Muslim countries.
One order, titled “Enhancing Public Safety in the Interior of the United States,” targets “removable aliens”—or immigrants who either entered the country illegally or overstayed their visas—and the so-called “sanctuary city” that offer them protection against deportation. Among other measures, the order cuts federal funding to such cities (though the president might not have the authority to do so, according to New York attorney general Eric T. Schneiderman), and promises to quickly deport undocumented immigrants.
While the order specifies that the order’s enforcement will prioritize undocumented immigrants who have committed crimes in the US (entering the country illegally or overstaying is a civic offense, not a crime, according to the US law), that’s not the only reason an immigrant could be removed from the US. The order also applies to the immigrants who, “in the judgment of an immigration officer, otherwise pose a risk to public safety or national security.”
Further the president said that the Secretary of Homeland Security will be publishing a weekly list of crimes committed by immigrants, and of the cities that refused to turn them in for deportation. The order doesn’t say whether the list would single out only undocumented immigrants, or all immigrants.
To better inform the public regarding the public safety threats associated with sanctuary jurisdictions, the Secretary shall utilize the Declined Detainer Outcome Report or its equivalent and, on a weekly basis, make public a comprehensive list of criminal actions committed by aliens and any jurisdiction that ignored or otherwise failed to honor any detainers with respect to such aliens.
This proposed list is a move reminiscent of Breitbart News, the conservative site founded by Trump senior advisor Steve Bannon, Trump’s senior strategy: infamously, Breitbart had a “black crime” section, opened as a response to Black Lives Matter. SourceThis will certainly not heal the division in the country, and will likely encourage far-right nativist crimes. Obviously there can be a slippery slope when it comes to execution, but there's also a false equivalence people unwittingly make, conflating illegal immigrants with all immigrants. There's nothing wrong with people who migrate through the proper channels, it's the subset of immigrants that are breaking the law that cause the problem. There's a lot of activity on Twitter, at least, referring to "immigrants being thrown under the bus", when the reality is not so black and white, and not so horrifying. I would wait to see immigration laws actually be enforced for once, before we worry about how it divides us as a people. I feel that's really a separate issue.
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On January 27 2017 12:59 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Maybe it's time we merge this thread with the "north Korea says/doew alarming things" thread? Seriously that's what I thought I was reading with a headline like that.. "Trump says/does alarming thing" definitely deserves its own thread at the rate he's going.
1984 was the best seller on Amazon yesterday. 'Ignorance is strength' has rarely seemed so apt. Can't wait for Kelly-Anne Conway heading up the Ministry of Alternative Truth.
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On January 27 2017 13:37 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2017 12:59 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On January 27 2017 12:10 ticklishmusic wrote:Seen on the White House website: Praise for President Trump's Bold ActionThis is the saddest thing I've seen all day, and I watched an ASPCA commercial earlier. Maybe it's time we merge this thread with the "north Korea says/doew alarming things" thread? Seriously that's what I thought I was reading with a headline like that.. "Trump says/does alarming thing" definitely deserves its own thread at the rate he's going. 1984 was the best seller on Amazon yesterday. 'Ignorance is strength' has rarely seemed so apt. Can't wait for Kelly-Anne Conway heading up the Ministry of Alternative Truth. I grew up watching Lewis Black and George Carlin, I'm fully prepared for this train of euphemistic bullshit to roll through. And honestly, I think anyone who buys that tripe can be classified as plant life.
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On January 27 2017 13:32 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2017 12:07 mustaju wrote:On day 5 of Donald Trump’s administration, the president signed two immigration-related executive orders, officially moving forward on some of the key promises of his campaign: deporting undocumented immigrants, building a wall between the US and Mexico, and placing extra scrutiny on immigrants from Muslim countries.
One order, titled “Enhancing Public Safety in the Interior of the United States,” targets “removable aliens”—or immigrants who either entered the country illegally or overstayed their visas—and the so-called “sanctuary city” that offer them protection against deportation. Among other measures, the order cuts federal funding to such cities (though the president might not have the authority to do so, according to New York attorney general Eric T. Schneiderman), and promises to quickly deport undocumented immigrants.
While the order specifies that the order’s enforcement will prioritize undocumented immigrants who have committed crimes in the US (entering the country illegally or overstaying is a civic offense, not a crime, according to the US law), that’s not the only reason an immigrant could be removed from the US. The order also applies to the immigrants who, “in the judgment of an immigration officer, otherwise pose a risk to public safety or national security.”
Further the president said that the Secretary of Homeland Security will be publishing a weekly list of crimes committed by immigrants, and of the cities that refused to turn them in for deportation. The order doesn’t say whether the list would single out only undocumented immigrants, or all immigrants.
To better inform the public regarding the public safety threats associated with sanctuary jurisdictions, the Secretary shall utilize the Declined Detainer Outcome Report or its equivalent and, on a weekly basis, make public a comprehensive list of criminal actions committed by aliens and any jurisdiction that ignored or otherwise failed to honor any detainers with respect to such aliens.
This proposed list is a move reminiscent of Breitbart News, the conservative site founded by Trump senior advisor Steve Bannon, Trump’s senior strategy: infamously, Breitbart had a “black crime” section, opened as a response to Black Lives Matter. SourceThis will certainly not heal the division in the country, and will likely encourage far-right nativist crimes. Obviously there can be a slippery slope when it comes to execution, but there's also a false equivalence people unwittingly make, conflating illegal immigrants with all immigrants. There's nothing wrong with people who migrate through the proper channels, it's the subset of immigrants that are breaking the law that cause the problem. There's a lot of activity on Twitter, at least, referring to "immigrants being thrown under the bus", when the reality is not so black and white, and not so horrifying. I would wait to see immigration laws actually be enforced for once, before we worry about how it divides us as a people. I feel that's really a separate issue.
The H-1B stuff and some of the student visa changes he's pushing are pretty bad signs for legal immigrants, especially since Trump doesn't seem to hold with the concept of "grandfathering" anything in.
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Estonia4504 Posts
A friend just linked me this. A true reflection-point for those who said Trump is pro-LGBTQ if true.
One of Donald Trump’s prospective picks for the Supreme Court believes gay people should be prosecuted for having sex because they are not protected by the constitution.
While serving as Alabama’s Attorney General in 2003, William H Pryor Jr wrote a legal brief in defence of a Texan law – later struck down by the Supreme Court – which criminalised consensual gay sex.
He compared it to “polygamy, incest, paedophilia, prostitution, and adultery” and said the Alabama court had “never recognised a fundamental right to engage in sexual activity outside of monogamous heterosexual marriage, let alone to engage in homosexual sodomy”.
“Such a right would be antithetical to the ‘traditional relation of the family’ that is as old and as fundamental as our entire civilisation”, he added. But he also said that anal sex between heterosexual partners was acceptable because it was not as bad as homosexual sex.
He explained: “Texas is hardly alone in concluding that homosexual sodomy may have severe physical, emotional, psychological, and spiritual consequences, which do not necessarily attend heterosexual sodomy, and from which Texas’s citizens need to be protected”. Source
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Well here's one executive order that didn't take long to produce some dividends:
Fearing a loss of millions of dollars for defying immigration authorities, Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez on Thursday ordered county jails to comply with federal immigration detention requests — effectively gutting the county’s position as a “sanctuary” for immigrants in the country illegally.
Gimenez cited an executive order signed Wednesday by President Donald Trump that threatened to cut federal grants for any counties or cities that don’t cooperate fully with Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Since 2013, Miami-Dade has refused to indefinitely detain inmates who are in the country illegally and wanted by ICE — not based on principle, but because the federal government doesn’t fully reimburse the county for the expense.
“In light of the provisions of the Executive Order, I direct you and your staff to honor all immigration detainer requests received from the Department of Homeland Security,” Gimenez wrote Daniel Junior, the interim director of the corrections and rehabilitation department, in a brief, three-paragraph memo.
Unlike cities like San Francisco, Miami-Dade never declared itself a “sanctuary” and has resisted the label ever since the Justice Department listed the county as one in a May 2016 report. Foreseeing Trump’s crackdown on “sanctuary” jurisdictions, the county asked the feds to review its status last year. A decision is still pending.
Read the rest here.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
For all intents and purposes he is going to choose a carbon copy of Scalia for the SCOTUS.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
social issues and the like was always an easily given up bargaining chip with social conservatives. ljl people who think trump would fight for 'new york values' with his own skin on the line.
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that miami-dade example, reading the listed text, doesn't really seem apropos at all. it's not a sanctuary city by its own claim. the only complaints the city had is that ICE wasn't prompt about picking people up, and woudln't reimburse them for the expense of holding them. aka the feds aren't paying like they supposed to.
so that's not dividend at all, tha'ts just bullying a fellow american township into doing work without being paid. aka an unfunded mandate, which the republicans like to harp about alot (and with considerable merit).
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On January 27 2017 06:16 xDaunt wrote:From Scott Adams: Show nested quote +I’m having a fun time watching President Trump flood the news cycle with so many stories and outrages that no one can keep up. Here’s how the math of persuasion works in this situation:
1 outrage out of 3 headlines in a week: Bad Persuasion
25 outrages out of 25 headlines in a week: Excellent Persuasion
At the moment there are so many outrages, executive orders, protests, and controversies that none of them can get enough oxygen in our brains. I can’t obsess about problem X because the rest of the alphabet is coming at me at the same time.
When you encounter a situation that is working great except for one identifiable problem, you can focus on the problem and try to fix it. But if you have a dozen complaints at the same time, none of them looks special. The whole situation just looks confusing, and you don’t know where to start. So you wait and see what happens. Humans need contrast in order to make solid decisions that turn into action. Trump removed all of your contrast by providing multiple outrages of similar energy.
You’re probably seeing the best persuasion you will ever see from a new president. Instead of dribbling out one headline at a time, so the vultures and critics can focus their fire, Trump has flooded the playing field. You don’t know where to aim your outrage. He’s creating so many opportunities for disagreement that it’s mentally exhausting. Literally. He’s wearing down the critics, replacing their specific complaints with entire encyclopedias of complaints. And when Trump has created a hundred reasons to complain, do you know what impression will be left with the public?
He sure got a lot done.
Even if you don’t like it.
In only a few days, Trump has made us question what-the-hell every other president was doing during their first weeks in office. Were they even trying? Source. The President's first few days should be quiet, and we're going to quickly wish Donald's first week was so quiet.
How much training does a middle-management employee go through? There's a lot to learn for this "job". Unfortunately, Tronald Dump has made it clear he already knows everything.
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Trump is still apparently fighting about the amount of people at the inauguration. You'd think he can't really get more petty than this.
Source
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Canada11278 Posts
On January 27 2017 11:30 xDaunt wrote:Here is the Canadian perspective on Trump's assault on Mexico: Show nested quote +Canada will focus on preserving its U.S. trade ties during talks to renegotiate NAFTA and may not be able to help Mexico avoid being targeted by the Trump administration, Canadian government sources say.
"We love our Mexican friends. But our national interests come first and the friendship comes second," a source said on the sidelines of a cabinet retreat in Calgary, Alberta.
"The two are not mutually exclusive," the source added.
The comments are some of the starkest yet by Canadian officials, who are increasingly convinced Mexico will suffer the most damage from changes to the North American Free Trade Agreement.
U.S. President Donald Trump on Sunday said he planned talks soon to begin renegotiating NAFTA, under which Canada and Mexico send most of their exports to the United States.
The Canadian sources stress Ottawa has not taken any final decision on how to approach the NAFTA talks, since Trump's opening stance is largely unknown.
The government dismisses the idea that Canada will formally abandon Mexico. Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland said on Tuesday that Canada supported NAFTA as a trilateral agreement and noted that Trudeau had talked to Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto over the weekend.
That said, the government sources note Mexico and Canada would appear to have little in common. Trump is unhappy about the large U.S. deficit with Mexico and has promised to punish firms with manufacturing bases there.
"Our negotiating positions are totally different. Mexico is being hung out of an skyscraper window by its feet," said a second government source.
"Mexico is in a terrible, terrible position. We are not," said another Canadian person involved on the trade file.
Officials familiar with diplomatic contacts between Mexico and Canada say there has been no talk of creating a joint front against the United States over NAFTA on the grounds that such a move would raise tensions and be counterproductive.
Bilateral trade is critical for Canada, which sends 75 percent of its exports to the United States. Statistics Canada data for 2015 show two-way trade in goods with the United States totaled C$760 billion ($580 billion) compared to just C$26 billion with Mexico.
Canada has a "very special status" and is unlikely to be hit hard by changes to NAFTA, the head of a business advisory council to Trump said on Monday.
Derek Burney, a former Canadian ambassador to Washington, told CTV News on Monday that Canada should distance itself from Mexico on NAFTA.
"We have security agreements, both continental and multi-lateral -- Mexico does not. Mexico has a huge border problem with the United States in terms of immigration and drugs -- Canada does not," he said. Source. So does anyone really still doubt that Trump is doing the right thing for the US by going after Mexico so hard? I'm not seeing much to support the endless apologism of some Americans for Mexico. I was concerned when he was talking about renegotiating NAFTA (hey, wait! We're in that one too.) But he can knock himself out going after Mexico, if it's business as usual with Canada-US (minus another softwood trade war. Please not another one.)
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Sweden33719 Posts
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