|
Saw this article (http://www.darkvisitor.com/), but I haven't even taken any astronomy so I leave it to wiser opinions to comment (I hope). I believe the author is the retired after 30 years at John Hopkins applied Physics Lab. He makes interesting posts at another forum I go to [EDIT: I should point out his English isn't great and don't be distracted by his pet peeve of declining western science at the beginning.] The short, short version: Black holes are undetectable, but there is evidence of some being responsible for changes in Neptune's orbit in the 1920's when a large black hole was a very far way from the sun. Apparently when these black holes were formed, they formed in pairs. The author thinks the smaller of the pair (at a size of 2.2 solar masses, I'm guessing that's big ) will pass by in 2007-2008 and alter Earth's orbit. "In less than 100 years, Europe and all of the USA, with the possible exception of the southern tip of Florida, will be in the grip of a new ice age." I think I see why he moved to Brazil. :o
The following article appeared on page 18 of The Triangle, Drexel University�s Newspaper 27 February 2004. (It also is an effort to interest students in physics and astronomy.) If you have access to bulletin boards that high school students view, please print and post it. Thanks.
No escape: a black hole is coming for you
You are doomed by the laws of physics and ancient history.
Your fate was sealed when the universe was young � back when stars first began to form, long before our sun was born. The universe was much smaller and denser then. For many stellar generations, the typical star was much bigger than the sun. These large stars run through their life cycles much more rapidly than the sun. They first convert hydrogen to helium, then helium to carbon using unstable beryllium as an intermediary. Finally, at the end of their exothermic nuclear fusion cycles, they produce iron cores that implode. - The outer layers of a massive star�s iron core weigh so much that the iron below them can not support their weight. The core begins to collapse. When it is half its initial size, these outer layers weigh four times more. Thus the collapse accelerates as it progress. In the final stages of the collapse, the outer layers are falling inward to a single point at essentially the speed of light. In less than a minute, a mass greater than the sun collapses into a space much smaller than the period that ends this sentence. That is, a "black hole" is formed.
All of the mass in a black hole is concentrated in zero volume, but a roughly spherical space around this mass is so distorted that nothing, not even light, can escape. Because of this fact, an approaching black hole would not reflect sunlight nor be visible in telescopes. The first indication that a black hole was approaching our solar system would be slight perturbation in the orbits of Oort Cloud objects (small "planetesimals" more distant than Pluto) These objects and Pluto are frequently perturbed because they are small and weakly bound to the sun. Recent perturbations of Pluto can be interpreted as the approach of a still very distant black hole. Read Dark Visitor, for one such interpretation. It predicts that the second member of a pair of black holes will pass through the solar system in late 2007 and tip the earth back into an ice age, even though the approaching black hole is small (2.2 solar masses) and passes by the sun more distant than Saturn�s orbit. Is there any reason to think that this could be true? Unfortunately there is, as the next paragraph demonstrates.
First note that in the early universe many generations of typical stars formed black holes and that stars usually form in pairs. Thus there are currently more pairs of small stellar-core black holes than all the current stars. One probably passed by our solar system in the late 1920s. Neptune�s orbit was disturbed then. Pluto was discovered in 1930 after a yearlong search for the origin of this perturbation, but it is now known that Pluto was not the cause. (Pluto is smaller than the moon and Neptune is 17.2 times greater than the earth.) Any knowledgeable astronomer will confirm this fact. Although other explanations are possible, it seems probable that: (1) a stellar-core black hole was the cause and if this is true, then (2) the authors of Dark Visitor may be correct and we are doomed.
|
|
His e-book looks very interesting, I'm going to read it next week when I have a little more free time...
ntroduction - Author Billy T tells why he was privileged to write Dark Visitor and explains his relationship to the astronomer forecasting the approaching black hole.
Chapter 1- George and his Father: Background about the Goldwaters. How and why George's father induced him to become a climatologist. The family agribusiness and why George did not join it.
Chapter 2- Karen and her Mother: How ancestors started the family fortune. Brief mention of the climate change to come and how the syndicate will profit from them. Why Karen's mother danced at Boston's Old Howard burlesque theater.
Chapter 3- Jack and his Studies: How Jack (and Billy T) met the Goldwaters. His astronomy program at Harvard. Why he quit and build an observatory. How this led to the discovery of the approaching dark visitor.
Very interesting stuff for young people making career choices, as said elsewhere in the site.
|
stupid doomsday bullshit again
|
If it happens I'd prefer it to be in the next twenty years so I can live through it.
|
|
we're fucked anyway, might as well be in the next 2 years
|
Since when the fuck do black holes pass by shit anyway? if anything black holes make stuff pass by them, as fara s i know , Black holes dont move, they are stationary and just have feeding/non feeding cycles. Typical Internet Hoax shit
|
I don't even know why you bothered to post. They move... :/
|
Also...we move, and you said stuff passes them by. What difference does your point of reference make even if you were right? (which you aren't)
|
ah Dammit..
We are fucked ayways. Also I'm reading the book :D
|
United States3552 Posts
My gas bills are big enough dammit! Interesting stuff, thanks for posting.
|
"darkvisitor.com"
Enough said
|
On March 15 2006 14:01 Sadist wrote: Since when the fuck do black holes pass by shit anyway? if anything black holes make stuff pass by them, as fara s i know , Black holes dont move, they are stationary and just have feeding/non feeding cycles. Typical Internet Hoax shit ............
Everything is moving outwards at the moment. Even black holes move;(
BUY the BOOK and you will be saved!!!!;o
|
"In less than 100 years, Europe and all of the USA, with the possible exception of the southern tip of Florida, will be in the grip of a new ice age." Thats great. Cross country skiing for my grandchildren is going to be sweet. Just gotta build a bunch of nuclear powerplants to keep us warm. And improve agriculture in countries that wont be frozen.
|
what;s the conection betwenn the thread name and the content of the first post?
|
what i meant was they dont orbit, of course everything is moving.
If it passed us 90 years ago and it DOESNT ORBIT, how is it going to pass us again? makes absolutely no sense at all if everything is going outwards away from the perceived center of the universe
|
On March 15 2006 15:47 Sadist wrote: what i meant was they dont orbit, of course everything is moving.
If it passed us 90 years ago and it DOESNT ORBIT, how is it going to pass us again? makes absolutely no sense at all if everything is going outwards away from the perceived center of the universe
It reached the end of the universe and decided to come visit us again and see what have we done. Actually there is a secret alien race floating in their space ship wich is disguised as a black hole. Their are trying to see if and how we evolved. But seeing the decay in the western civilisation they will realize we will never be able to make them cheap spare parts for their spaceship/ black-hole. So as a punishment they will leave us in a cold winter to make us focus on creating such a black hole to put back Earth on the correct orbit.
|
On March 15 2006 13:27 Servolisk wrote: "In less than 100 years, Europe and all of the USA, with the possible exception of the southern tip of Florida, will be in the grip of a new ice age."
Hahaha, thats just we're I'm at.
|
On March 15 2006 14:01 Sadist wrote: Since when the fuck do black holes pass by shit anyway? if anything black holes make stuff pass by them, as fara s i know , Black holes dont move, they are stationary and just have feeding/non feeding cycles. Typical Internet Hoax shit try reading the article before you comment on it... it said that these usually form in pairs and the second member of the pair may be coming, with the first being the one that passed in the 20's.
|
As much as I'd like to say that this sounds like bullshit, all I have to go on is a gut instinct and a limited knowledge of astronomy. I can't debase it, but I will say its extremely, extremely unlikely.
|
|
time to invest in gas companies. those stock prices are going to skyrocket and i'll be rolling in the money =]=]=]
|
On March 15 2006 16:17 HungZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2006 14:01 Sadist wrote: Since when the fuck do black holes pass by shit anyway? if anything black holes make stuff pass by them, as fara s i know , Black holes dont move, they are stationary and just have feeding/non feeding cycles. Typical Internet Hoax shit try reading the article before you comment on it... it said that these usually form in pairs and the second member of the pair may be coming, with the first being the one that passed in the 20's.
ill state this again, even if its the second one it doesnt matter because.
A) Black holes DO NOT MOVE like an orbit or like a fucking commet or something B) BLACK HOLES DONT RUN INTO THINGS C) It makes no sense whichever way to slice it.
not to mention if blackholes moved aimlessly through the universe EVERYTHING Would get destroyed which we know is not the case
|
very few stars form black holes...usually verry large stars (several times greater than our sun). From reading that text I had the a common man read an astronomy book and then wrote the ideas he got from reading the text. There is no name of the writer. Should i just belive he was a professor for 30 years not even knowing his name? If that theory would have been the result of a real sceintist it would have been signed with his full name not just Billy T.
|
i think it seems if black holes are formed in pairs, with one larger and one smaller , they are locked in a orbit around each other (like pluto and it's moon) but on a much much larger scale. Now the littler of the two blackholes will wobble closer to our side of the galaxy, stretching our solar system a bit.
|
On March 15 2006 16:30 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2006 16:17 HungZerg wrote:On March 15 2006 14:01 Sadist wrote: Since when the fuck do black holes pass by shit anyway? if anything black holes make stuff pass by them, as fara s i know , Black holes dont move, they are stationary and just have feeding/non feeding cycles. Typical Internet Hoax shit try reading the article before you comment on it... it said that these usually form in pairs and the second member of the pair may be coming, with the first being the one that passed in the 20's. ill state this again, even if its the second one it doesnt matter because. A) Black holes DO NOT MOVE like an orbit or like a fucking commet or something B) BLACK HOLES DONT RUN INTO THINGS C) It makes no sense whichever way to slice it.
Everything moves in the universe. Depends on the point you chose as refrence. Our galaxy moves in respect to other galaxyes. Our sun moves in respect with the center of the galaxy. Every star moves in respect to the other celestial bodies. Black holes come from stars (very few star generate black holes) so they move to. That dosen;t mean the whole theory there is more than a lot of bullshit.
|
On March 15 2006 16:30 yare wrote: i think it seems if black holes are formed in pairs, with one larger and one smaller , they are locked in a orbit around each other (like pluto and it's moon) but on a much much larger scale. Now the littler of the two blackholes will wobble closer to our side of the galaxy, stretching our solar system a bit.
This theory seems like bullshit to me how can a black hole orbit around ANYTHING? it makes no sense at all
ive heard of things called SUPER MASSIVE BLack holes at the centers of galaxies which is the reason some believe galaxies move but i would think one of the black holes woul dhave to be ASTRONIMICALLY bigger than the other to make it orbit around another, and ive never heard of black holes forming in pairs ever.
Im done anyway because apparently my choice of language isnt exactly the best because people keep trying to pick it apart and turn it into different meanings etc. Anyway this isnt going to happen, internet bullshit like this is gay end of story.
|
On March 15 2006 16:30 yare wrote: i think it seems if black holes are formed in pairs, with one larger and one smaller , they are locked in a orbit around each other (like pluto and it's moon) but on a much much larger scale. Now the littler of the two blackholes will wobble closer to our side of the galaxy, stretching our solar system a bit. Black holes don;'t always (as it is written in the book) form in pairs. This actualy happens verry rare. Black holes come from very large stars that inplode. Stars don't form in pairs (does our Sun have a pair) the nearest star is 4 light years away. There are verry few stars that form in pairs and there are verry few stars that become black holes.....so the probability to have a pair of black holes is slimer than having a pair of stars. Usually in a pair of stars one is much greater than the other. So, upon the transformation of one into a black hole the small one is verry likely to crash into the newly formed black hole.
|
Total crap. As Sadist said, black holes can't orbit around anything. This is ridiculous. Also, distances in space are huge, closest star at 1000 lightyears if I'm right? If anything that big was coming on us, we would have found out before it's in our face -_-
|
Vatican City State1872 Posts
On March 15 2006 16:51 tehsnow wrote: Total crap. As Sadist said, black holes can't orbit around anything. This is ridiculous. Also, distances in space are huge, closest star at 1000 lightyears if I'm right? If anything that big was coming on us, we would have found out before it's in our face -_- sirius, the closest star is 4 light years away.
edit - besides the sun that is.
|
Not being able to understand that black holes have pairs is not the fault of the article or theory here. If you won't bother to check your facts or read the article your clearly not interested so don't pollute the thread.
|
On March 15 2006 16:51 tehsnow wrote: Total crap. As Sadist said, black holes can't orbit around anything. This is ridiculous. Also, distances in space are huge, closest star at 1000 lightyears if I'm right? If anything that big was coming on us, we would have found out before it's in our face -_-
read first... even in what I posted, I mentioned black holes are undetectable by most methods.
|
On March 15 2006 16:25 jchanhm wrote: time to invest in gas companies. those stock prices are going to skyrocket and i'll be rolling in the money =]=]=]
sounds like an expensive waste of money.. everyone knows our gas is running out ~~
|
On March 15 2006 14:52 LetMeBeWithYou wrote: "darkvisitor.com"
Enough said
is there a competition for most useless post in this thread?
|
On March 15 2006 15:47 MindCrusher wrote: what;s the conection betwenn the thread name and the content of the first post?
What is it about this that is so hard... There is even a big picture on the link. Numerous mentions of orbit. For some reason people think this is an apocalypse thread, which is incredible. It does presume some serious consequences, but not nearly some doomsday.
|
On March 15 2006 13:27 Servolisk wrote: Apparently when these black holes were formed, they formed in pairs. The author thinks the smaller of the pair ( at a size of 2.2 solar masses, I'm guessing that's big  ) will pass by in 2007-2008 and alter Earth's orbit.
In order for a black hole to form from gravitational collapse, the start must be at the very least 3 solar masses. In order for a smaller black hole to form, it would need to be put under tremendous pressure from elsewhere.
And Sadist is just plain wrong. Cygnus X-1 is a known binary system containing a black hole and a blue supergiant.
|
ok i said i wouldnt post again but whatever.
Mindcrime i dont know what you are talking about when you say im wrong (im not saying im not wrong about something i just dont know what topic you are saying im wrong about)
I did a little bit of reading and frmo what i understand, super massive blackholes do not cause galaxies to spin, this is probably still up for debate since i had heard different theories on the history channel a few months ago. Anyway, I still havent found anythingf that says black holes actually can ORBIT other things. I know things can Orbit AROUND black holes and not get sucked in but i am not sure if a black hole can actually orbit something bigger unless it is actually another black hole in which I GUESS This guys theory could be right even though it sounds like bullshit because youd be seeing it on the news and such. Basically the entire plausability of this is based on whether blackholes themselves can actually orbit . If they can, i guess this is possible yet extremely extremely unlikely, if they cant i dont see how we could just "run" into one seeing as far as i know they do not move freely throughout the universe at a faster rate than anything else moving from the "center" Without them basically moving in a straight line from the center i dont see how we could just run into one that isnt orbiting, it doesnt really make sense.
oh and about Cygnus-X, i obviously knew that galaxies had black holes in them and i Looked up cygnus-x as for an example. From what the pictures and the wording sounding like, the Star is having some of its matter eaten by the black hole. but it does not say anywhere that i have found that the black hole is actually orbiting the star.
|
On March 15 2006 18:30 Sadist wrote:
Mindcrime i dont know what you are talking about when you say im wrong (im not saying im not wrong about something i just dont know what topic you are saying im wrong about)
You were wrong when you said that black holes never orbit anything. Cygnus X-1 is a binary system composed of a black hole and a blue supergiant. Meaning that the two spin around each other.
|
Here's a review. A review on Amazon gives the same opinion.
edit: Amazon gets auto-linked? forum hacks!
|
On March 15 2006 18:51 pansy wrote:Here's a review. A review on Amazon gives the same opinion. edit: Amazon gets auto-linked? forum hacks!
Mostly complaints about his writing style. As I said in my first post his English isn't that great. It looks worse than it is usually. It's no surprise to me people didn't like the structure of a book he made.
I haven't read that much yet but his poor English plus my lack of reading is giving me some doubts as to whether he thinks this will happen or it is one of other possible explanations. I'm thinking the latter because his primary concern seems to be " Dark Visitor is a science recruiting tool...However, the time scale in Dark visitor is entirelly based on the need to get some pre lawers interested in science NOW. It is a painless, I hope interesting, way to learn a lot of physics." (from a PM I just got from him). Or that, as it says in the intro "the when is speculative", not the if. I still stand by my recomendation, especially since it's free. Based on what I've seen of him before, there should be some worthwhile stuff in there.
|
Any black hole within 10,000 light years (probably more, I can ask my cosmologist friend who's working on this for his PhD) would be easily detected by its gravitational lensing effects. Any object of that mass which was already within 2 light-years (it's supposed to "pass" us in two years? i assume that's an approach << 1 LY) passing us in the next two years would be close enough that we'd already have felt its effects in a number of other ways.
Black holes do move. "Jeebus!" for whoever posted arguing that.
Like any other massive object they can form binary systems (mutual orbiting of two objects around their combined center of mass) with other stars or black holes, but don't need to.
Black holes aren't really fundamentally different from any other massive stellar object. Their density is larger, hence the "blackness". Otherwise, just consider them like any other (relatively massive) star.
|
United Kingdom10597 Posts
|
Changes in Neptune's orbit? i haven't heard that before :/
|
On March 15 2006 21:34 Clutch3 wrote: Any black hole within 10,000 light years (probably more, I can ask my cosmologist friend who's working on this for his PhD) would be easily detected by its gravitational lensing effects. Any object of that mass which was already within 2 light-years (it's supposed to "pass" us in two years? i assume that's an approach << 1 LY) passing us in the next two years would be close enough that we'd already have felt its effects in a number of other ways.
Black holes do move. "Jeebus!" for whoever posted arguing that.
Like any other massive object they can form binary systems (mutual orbiting of two objects around their combined center of mass) with other stars or black holes, but don't need to.
Black holes aren't really fundamentally different from any other massive stellar object. Their density is larger, hence the "blackness". Otherwise, just consider them like any other (relatively massive) star.
|
Ok blackhole! You can freeze our planet but lets see who is faster! GOGO CO2 MASS PRODUCTION!!!
No blackhole can stop human selfdestruction hahaha!!!
-__-
|
Listen to this guy.
On March 15 2006 21:34 Clutch3 wrote: Any black hole within 10,000 light years (probably more, I can ask my cosmologist friend who's working on this for his PhD) would be easily detected by its gravitational lensing effects. Any object of that mass which was already within 2 light-years (it's supposed to "pass" us in two years? i assume that's an approach << 1 LY) passing us in the next two years would be close enough that we'd already have felt its effects in a number of other ways.
Black holes do move. "Jeebus!" for whoever posted arguing that.
Like any other massive object they can form binary systems (mutual orbiting of two objects around their combined center of mass) with other stars or black holes, but don't need to.
Black holes aren't really fundamentally different from any other massive stellar object. Their density is larger, hence the "blackness". Otherwise, just consider them like any other (relatively massive) star.
As it probably isn't approaching at anywhere close to light speed, it would need to be within a fraction of a light year in fact... And about expanding universe and everything moving away from each other: that effect is only visible on a VERY large scale. Like galaxy clusters moving away from each other.
|
Did somebody forget to elaborate on the 378 day year or did I miss something?
|
|
Look, everyone knows that black holes only move from left to right; they don't even have a Z-axis, look in any physics book.
If everyone in the world jumps to their left simultaneously, the Earth will be perturbed to the right, effectively "cloaking" planet Earth from the influence of 2-dimensional black holes, which can only scroll left-to-right (think Mario Bros. for NES). I don't mean to condescend you guys with my intellect, I am using basic conservation of energy here, this is not complicated. I can't even believe we are discussing this.
Rest assured, a plan will be formed when the times comes.
|
Belgium8305 Posts
Servolisk, why are you defending this "scientist" so fiercely?
The crappy English in his book makes it look extremely unprofessional. You know they have editors and such for that stuff, right?
Also, any serious scientist would rather publish articles about this or at least write a very serious book on the matter, while this is obviously some sensationalist bullshit.
And most importantly, who are we to believe, this shady retired guy, or the thousands of scientists that are peering into space every day and haven't noticed anything? A black hole, due to its nature, can be detected from very very far away, as indicated earlier in this thread.
Even if this guy just wants to get kids interested in astronomy and/or physics, spouting this kind of unfounded unprofessional crap really isn't the way.
|
If everyone in the world jumps to their left simultaneously
To any arbitrary left? 
I realize the post was sarcastic, but I'm not sure if you noticed this.
If you did just ignore me. . . Or something
|
On March 16 2006 03:43 Paragon wrote: Did somebody forget to elaborate on the 378 day year or did I miss something?
If the black hole threw earth's orbit a bit further out, it would take more time for 1 revolution around the sun, ie a longer year.
|
|
|
|