On September 02 2012 13:58 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
On September 02 2012 13:56 aksfjh wrote:
On September 02 2012 13:44 tokicheese wrote:
On September 02 2012 13:39 aksfjh wrote: There's really no reason why we should increase access to a substance that impairs judgement and greatly increase the dangers of driving and operating machinery.
Really? Pouring money to cartels, making harmless people into criminals, filling prisons past full for possession for a relatively harmless substance isn't a reason?
Or maybe if we had a concerted effort and stopped toying with the idea of legalizing it, it would be even more controlled. Certainly, some of the penalties of possession, like 3 strikes laws, are too harsh compared to the crime, and probably contribute to the complacent nature of some officers, departments, and states on the issue. However, that's not a real argument for legalization.
when thousands of fine ,tax paying peaceful members of society get treated like the worst criminals evry year(and lifes destroyed cause of that, not by the drug but the legislation) then imho that is a reason.
On September 02 2012 13:56 urashimakt wrote:
On September 02 2012 13:48 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: the only reason weed is illegal in most states atm is that changing that would mean a huge image loss for the ruling party.
it would bring tonsa taxes(instead of wasting millions on chasing rnd pothead dude #1523545), take that money from organized crime etc. in the end i havent seen someone succesfully argumenting for the ban, still thats the way it is.
pretty sure in the future this will happen. until then... whatever. evryone smokes anyways. i only know like 2 poeple that never tried it.
Not everyone smokes. There are a lot of folks out there who don't smoke for differing reasons (career, "respecting one's body", don't like the stuff, etc).
I've tried both drinking and smoking marijuana once and figured if I didn't enjoy it now, why train myself to like it.
exactly what i meant. evryone tried it. some like it, some dont. now imagine all those people (including you) wouldve been caught by the police just for trying it once. fines,possible loss of job/license etc. does that sound justified?
Yes. How many people do you think would try it if they didn't think they could get away with it?
as said out of all the people i know only 2 people never tried it. one of them is my mam. if you think the ban has any effect on that then you should really inform yourself. if anything it makes it more attractive to the rebelling youths.
On September 02 2012 14:23 AlexSmerch wrote: If alcohol is harmful, it does not mean, that weed should be legalized. People become addicted. They want more and more. And this never ends well. People live well without weed. Do we realy need it? No. We needn't alcohol, drugs, cigarettes. We should follow healthy life style.
No, weed should not been legalized.
we dont need mcdonalds, poptarts,chocolate, chips,coffee, tv or anythign either. and all of that carries the risk of addiction -and sure as hell more people are addicted to fast food/snacks then any drug out there.
Yea, I'm going to take the anecdotal evidence from a German pothead as proof that the ban has "no effect."
It is a mind altering substance with a high potential for abuse and dangerous behavior while under its effects. In the context of the drug itself, there is no reason it should be legalized in the first place.
If you'd like to discuss ther merits of the legality of other substances, foods, products, etc., then do so on the terms of those products.
But in all serious, I feel I can give an honest perspective on this subject. So here goes:
I've smoked weed maybe almost 70 times over a.. 6 year period (since like grade 11 highschool). On and off. Like for example in grade 11 about 3 weekends out of the month we'd go blaze and watch a movie. We would always drive in the same car and our friend driving would always smoke with us. The only time we got into a "car accident" was when after a movie was over (we were all not stoned by this time , 3 of us) my friend got into the car and accidently dropped it into forward instead of reverse, thus bumping his bumper on the pole in front of us. Lame, but ya not a big deal, and none of us were high at the time. None of us ever got sick, ever got into fights, nothing bad ever happened.
Nowadays I'm in university so I smoke very rarely. Maybe less then 4 times in a year depending on who I'm hanging out with and if someone just randomly happens to have it. Yes less than 4 times a year, despite the fact I can get it basically any time I want.
On the idea of it being addictive, most people don't know this because they've never been around friends who've blazed every single day for a few months, but yes it is addictive. In what way you ask? Well after smoking it everyday a few times a day (2 of my best friends) they would often need to blaze just to be able to eat properly, or blaze before bed to ensure a great sleep. Now they both realized this, and cut back or stopped completely, and after a very short period (took a few days break) they were their normal selves in terms of eating habits and being able to sleep easily. So yes, addictive, but you really need to put in ALOT of time (I'm talking months), money, and effort just to get effects that can even remotely be classified as slightly addictive.
Anyway, let's compare here for a second.. marijuana to say alcohol:
Overdosing on alcohol - easy to do - effect is you get very sick, throw up, or even die Overdosing on weed - takes alot of effort - effect is you fall asleep, worst is "green out" which can happen if you eat a ton of marijuana cookies or super potent brownies etc. but even then you just puke or sleep comfortably.
So in summary:
I have thrown up, regretted so many nights of drunken debauchery, felt sick to my stomach, felt like I was going to die, gotten in stupid arguments, embarrassed myself in front of friends or loved ones, all more times than I'd like to admit. Now, guess which drug I was "high" on during all those misdeeds?
The only reason weed is a gateway drug is because some people just get bored of it. If you have a big tolerance and you're used to being high. Eventually people want to feel wasted again and end up trying harder drugs.
Of course this only really applies to people who smoke multiple times a day everyday.
On September 02 2012 14:58 Jaspertheclown wrote: The only reason weed is a gateway drug is because some people just get bored of it. If you have a big tolerance and you're used to being high. Eventually people want to feel wasted again and end up trying harder drugs.
Of course this only really applies to people who smoke multiple times a day everyday.
This is entirely wrong. The biggest pot heads at my school only ever tried pot and were never tempted to search out new highs. The friends (I don't actually hang out with them anymore) who do cocaine pretty regularly were the people who were the most into drinking (example: they got caught drinking at school).
I don't think anyone who has done the research and actually tried marijuana thinks that it's bad unless they are just trying to be controversial.
I wouldn't call it a gateway drug because it depends on whether the person is willing to try other drugs or not. There are TONS of people who have done only marijuana.
as said out of all the people i know only 2 people never tried it. one of them is my mam. if you think the ban has any effect on that then you should really inform yourself. if anything it makes it more attractive to the rebelling youths.
It's one of the problem in Europe and America. But in USSR a lot of people even didn't know what is weed. Why? Because of good control from goverment. Of course, some people try drugs in post Soviet countries now, because of western countries influence. But 90% my friends never tried such things (But now more and more people try drugs). There are diffrent valuables in post Soviet countries and western.
we dont need mcdonalds
There are not mcdonalds in Siberia
chocolate
Choclate is good for brain, btw.
chips
Of course, it's unhealthy food, but compare it with weed - is stupid. Sorry
coffee
Same.
tv
TV imposes wrong valuables for young people, but there are some good channels like Discovey, National geographic, etc.
anythign either
People really needn't a lot of things. But some things has advantages and disadvantages. For example, internet helps you in education, communication, in practice foreign languages On the other hand, it has a lot of disadvantages. But i dont see any advantages in weed.
and sure as hell more people are addicted to fast food/snacks
And this is very bad, i think.
P.S. Sorry for my english. I have lack of practise
I do not smoke it but i believe it should be legalised and taxed and legislated as heavily as smoking is. Meaning that only certain companies can grow the plant (like tobacco) it can only be sold to adults, and it should be taxed to hell and back. It would be a good source of income for the government which honestly needs it at this moment
as said out of all the people i know only 2 people never tried it. one of them is my mam. if you think the ban has any effect on that then you should really inform yourself. if anything it makes it more attractive to the rebelling youths.
It's one of the problem in Europe and America. But in USSR a lot of people even didn't know what is weed. Why? Because of good control from goverment. Of course, some people try drugs in post Soviet countries now, because of western countries influence. But 90% my friends never tried such things (But now more and more people try drugs). There are diffrent valuables in post Soviet countries and western.
People really needn't a lot of things. But some things has advantages and disadvantages. For example, internet helps you in education, communication, in practice foreign languages On the other hand, it has a lot of disadvantages. But i dont see any advantages in weed.
and sure as hell more people are addicted to fast food/snacks
And this is very bad, i think.
P.S. Sorry for my english. I have lack of practise
So you would advocate a ban on chips and fast food as well? Nothing good can come from imposing laws to protect stupid people from themselves. If a person who smokes pot is lazy and contributes nothing to society, chances are they are just lazy. It's not marijuana's fault when a stoner is a deadbeat, just like it's not McDonald's fault that half of America is obese.
Educate people on the health benefits of eating well and not inhaling smoke, and then let them decide for themselves.
So you would advocate a ban on chips and fast food as well? Nothing good can come from imposing laws to protect stupid people from themselves. If a person who smokes pot is lazy and contributes nothing to society, chances are they are just lazy. It's not marijuana's fault when a stoner is a deadbeat, just like it's not McDonald's fault that half of America is obese.
Educate people on the health benefits of eating well and not inhaling smoke, and then let them decide for themselves.
What is even the point of asking "should weed be legalized ?". Its the same as asking "Should both men and women have equal rights ?", "Should corruption be stopped", "Should we spend more money on medical research".... etc
The only people who will say "No" are those who are part of very old generations or the people that have been "indoctrinated" by them as kids... also, in some cases, religious fanatics as well, but i guess that this is kinda included in the previous category.
This site has a user base that is 99.99% not part of said category, the most you will get is people playing "devil's advocate" in a troll-ish way and other people getting mad at them.
The question with weed as with any other thing is " Are there enough 'important' people that want it legalized as opposed to people that don't", in most country there are not... there are still huge "fees" taken by some to allow drug traffic and those fees are worth a lot to them. Weed will slowly be legalized as more of the "old generations" die out and new ones are born thus when you reach say... 80% of people that are sure as hell it should be legal instead of 50% you will simply have politicians legalize it under the pressure since they don't want someone else exploiting such a popular manoeuvre.
On September 02 2012 15:22 Shady Sands wrote: This isn't a should question; it's a how question. How do you legalize it in the face of political opposition? Would people vote on this?
If properly couched in terms of economic value, along with a concrete societal backing (I'm thinking public support from groups like the ACLU and the AARP), legalization of marijuana would be entirely possible. The biggest issue is congealing public support and removing the taboo from mainstream politics, something which has already begun to an extent.
On September 02 2012 15:17 Nesserev wrote: One of the crucial differences is that the intake of alcohol is done over a longer period of time, spanning up to a few or more hours, becoming more drunk in the proces, while the effect of weed is felt almost immediately after blowing. Alcohol can be found within beer or other alcoholic beverages, which taste great if you're used to it, weed is just ... weed. While you can have a long build-up conversation over a few pints of beer, it's just not the same with weed. Alcohol is more of a social drug than weed is, even though both are a lot more social than other drugs.
Alcohol is a lot more expensive than weed, the hangover is unbearable compared to 'just feeling a bit sick' because of weed and these are the kind of things that drugs like these need. These are (unintentional) countermeasures that help prevent not only the abuse of the drug, but also prevent the casual overusage of the drug.
Few points: most people compare weed to alcohol because they are both widely used.
As for social stuff, there is actually a huge culture of marijuana enthusiests. Want stuff to talk about? Bongs,pipes, vapes, new strains. There's tons to talk about. Weed is a hugely social drug. Doing it with others.. you'd talk and laugh the night away I assure you.
Also yes weed can taste differently. Different strains have their own taste, high, and smoke; but these fine details are lost on most people - just like the finer details of consuming wine.
As for countermeasures, most people who use marijuana if they got high tonight they wouldn't necessarily be tempted to use it again tomorrow or even next week.
On September 02 2012 15:22 Shady Sands wrote: This isn't a should question; it's a how question. How do you legalize it in the face of political opposition? Would people vote on this?
Popular opinion is already there, but it will probably be a while before young voters turn out in large enough numbers to vote it in.
And political momentum tends to lag behind half a century because of the need to appeal to the lowest common moral denominator, so it's not like the opinion of college kids can have any effect within the next few terms.
Oh. About valuables. There is good russian movie - Брат 2 (Brother 2) Movie about friedship, brotherhood. Here is the link - Compare it with modern american movies I know, that it's offtop, but anyway.
On September 02 2012 14:23 AlexSmerch wrote: If alcohol is harmful, it does not mean, that weed should be legalized. People become addicted. They want more and more. And this never ends well. People live well without weed. Do we realy need it? No. We needn't alcohol, drugs, cigarettes. We should follow healthy life style.
No, weed should not been legalized.
Weed isn't physically addictive. Alcohol and cigarettes however, are. The fact is, weed isn't nearly as harmful as alcohol -- if at all. Our government spends tax payer money arresting and putting "criminals" in jail for possession. Theres way more than just the alcohol comparison to justify legalization. Besides, why do you care who chooses to smoke weed -- or any drug?
On September 02 2012 14:58 Jaspertheclown wrote: The only reason weed is a gateway drug is because some people just get bored of it. If you have a big tolerance and you're used to being high. Eventually people want to feel wasted again and end up trying harder drugs.
Of course this only really applies to people who smoke multiple times a day everyday.
Alcohol would be a gateway drug too if it was illegal. The great irony of the gateway drug debate is that if you legalized it, it would no longer be a gateway drug.
The reason weed is a gateway drug is because you have to source it from a dealer, those dealers are also very likely to deal other drugs too.
EPT
On the other hand, it has a lot of disadvantages. But i dont see any advantages in weed. 
