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Hi TL!
I recently started sleeping 8.5 to 9hours per night and feel better than ever. I tried to work with 7 hours for quite some time but I was really tired in the morning and had problems concentrating over longer periods of time.
So this sounds great, right? I now am energetic and well rested the entire day.
The big downside however is this:
I work 8 hours a day, it takes roughly one hour to get to my work place and another hour back. With eating, shopping, hygiene and the usual household crap I probably spend another 2.5 hours a day.
So 10 hours work+travel 2.5hours household. Well, that makes 12.5h. Sleeping 9 hours my day has only 15 left, if I want to exercise for an hour I only have 1.5hours left as my personal free time.
I can't live like this for the next 50 years.
I know there are vacations and weekends but living only 2 days a week is just a really depressing thought to me.
I know that you can reduce sleep dramatically by splitting the time over the day, that is not an option for me though.
About myself (maybe that is important to know):
I am male age 24 somewhat in shape and my immune system works nice as far as I can tell.
My Question is:
Does anyone of you have a solid way to reduce sleeping time?
Maybe I have to reduce steadily, maybe there is a certain supplement, maybe a certain diet. I did some research but I really am unsure of what to do. Caffeine is not an option, it really messes with my sleeping rythm and makes matters worse over time.
Ideally someone with personal experience could tell what he/she did.
But of course any interesting and legit article is welcome.
Please don't post only to tell me that you think 6hours is enough.
Thanks for your help!
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France12904 Posts
Tea + Royal Jelly and you should be able to feel energic with 7 to 8 hours of sleep.
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You need to sleep until you are rested. Getting less will make you feel and perform worse in the long term. It's unfortunate that you need 8.5-9 hours to feel rested when some people can get away with 6 or 7 but it's not something you can change. Supplements do not work.
I suggest moving closer to your job or finding some way to reduce that maintenance time, for example by making stews that last 3-4 days with one preparation time.
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Northern Ireland26012 Posts
Em, can't actually find any articles on the subject, I've read a lot about this in newspapers and the like.
Myself, if I don't have my girlfriend/mum around to wake me up I can sleep 14/15 hours a day easily and it absolutely destroys your energy levels over time. Basically I've tried all sorts of things, been on SSRIs to supposedly fix my fatigue issues but they made them worse, taken vitamins etc, and none of them enable me to be a competent human being if I sleep that much so yeah, it's a critical thing.
Essentially, people's requisite amount of sleep required varies a surprising amount. It sounds like you've found your ideal amount to keep energy levels pretty high. The real issue is regarding your scheduling outside of that by the sounds of it.
Sleeping patterns really make a massive difference in terms of energy levels and mood, so if you've found your optimal level I really wouldn't advise fucking around with it too much. I don't know your personal circumstances, but if you're unhappy with your work/leisure balance it's worth looking into alternatives on that front as well. Over time if you're unhappy with that balance it can be really debilitating on a mental level, which then feeds into bad habits which affect your physical health as well. From personal experience.
My only advice is to see a Doctor about this. These guys actually know what they're talking about. I'm not saying that internet forums etc don't have good advice, but on health issues generally there is so much information, often conflicting, that it is close to impossible to sift through it and choose the correct course of action (again from personal experience)
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Well, i beleive this is what the scale is for sleep.
Newborn - up to 18 hours
1–12 months - 14–18 hours
1–3 years - 12–15 hours
3–5 years - 11–13 hours
5–12 years - 9–11 hours
Adolescents - 9–10 hours
Adults - 7/8 hours
So if you struggled with 7 try 8? 11pm sleep - 7am wake up?
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Well according to stuff i read on wikipedia, the last 2-3 hours of sleep during a night are very ineffective compared to the first hours. So sleeping for an hour or so for example after work should let you reduce your total sleeping time without sacrificing your health due to lack of sleep. I personally can't do this because i don't fall asleep unless I'm absolutely exhausted but a lot of people do this and they get along just fine 
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I dunno about any supplements or diets really, but I used to have to shift my sleeping pattern a lot for my assignments at uni. Some of the more extreme assignment periods I'd get as little as 3 or 4 hours of sleep a night on average.
In any case, whenever I had to reduce my sleeping patterns, I'd usually slow play it. Sleeping and waking at consistent times is pretty important for controlling the amount you sleep. From then on usually I would just work on a pattern of reducing my sleep at set amounts every few days maybe, depending on how soon I need to cut my sleeping down. It would also depend on how long you take to adjust to lesser sleep.
For now we'll keep it at every 4 days maybe. I would reduce my sleep by half an hour and sit at that number for a few days until I've adapted to it. Then reduce it by another half hour, maybe 15 minutes if half an hour is too hard to adapt to at first, whatever you find yourself adapting to easier). Then it's just simply keeping up the pattern until you adjust to less and less sleep over time. Lots of coffee helps too.
However, since I would do this a lot at uni during the semesters, and then sleep like a rock during holidays, one thing I DID notice is that sometimes if I'm feeling sleepy a lot of the time, it would be because I'm getting significantly more sleep than I need rather than not enough (especially after major projects are due and I would just be sleeping all day) and just end up feeling incredibly drained most of the time. Give it a thought. You might not need as much sleep as you think, rather just being stuck in a pattern. Most of my teachers tell me similar things about sleep. I do design so a lot of my uni tutors/lecturers would have to shift their sleeping patterns constantly to adjust to major projects as well so it's very doable.
You should also maybe look into power naps as well. I don't know how much truth there is to it but it's a big strategy in Japan for maintaining productivity during work days and AFAIK they work significantly longer hours than your average western full time job as well. This article is pretty old but it was the first thing that came up on google. I'm sure you could find better things if you spend the time.
http://biznik.com/articles/afternoon-nap-is-the-new-trend-in-productivity
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I would recommend just sticking with what works for you. Sleep has so many health benefits that reducing it for the sake of free time doesn't strike me as that much of a good deal. Your moods, ability to deal with stress and all kinds of other things will take a hit if you start suffering from sleep deprivation, and that in turn will impair your experience of that newly found free time as well as your overall satisfaction with the rest of your day (nevermind the health). Look for other ways to create more free time, i.e. use your commute creatively (if you can, read or play games while commuting), use a schedule to cut down on household related stuff by shopping/cleaning the house once a week (or once every two weeks if you're good) and try to be as efficient as possible with everything you do. But if you must, cutting it down for half an hour seems ok, so from 9 to 8.5 or 8.5 to 8; you could also try to consciously accumulate a bit of sleep debt (those 8 hours instead of 8.5) and sleep for longer on the weekends, but I still think you should look for alternatives.
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I have to sleep 8 hours + to feel rested and have a balanced energy level all day (sure I can sleep 5 hours and drink alot of coffee but my day will more be like a rollercoaster and I can't find any harm at all). What keeps me going is: I can wake up 45 mins before my work starts, I usually enjoy my work when I'm rested, I got goals (saving money for travels and etc on my vacation), and I live with two mates who help me with all chores.
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sleeping is alot of digestion. thats why when you eat big meals or meals in general at certain times of the day you get tired.
eat healthy easy to digest foods. you will have alot more energy.
might help, gl
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Maybe you should find a job you like, so you don't feel like you are wasting your time there? I mean, saving 8 hours a sleep a week is not going to rock your world.
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One of my tutors once told me, it would be enough to sleep 5 to 6 hours during a workweek, and catch up the missing hours on weekends. I don't know if it's true, or right or healthy, but i can say, if you do so, you will have to take a nap on saturday/sunday (or whatever the days of your weekend are) afternoon.
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On August 09 2012 19:55 Demizzle wrote:I dunno about any supplements or diets really, but I used to have to shift my sleeping pattern a lot for my assignments at uni. Some of the more extreme assignment periods I'd get as little as 3 or 4 hours of sleep a night on average. In any case, whenever I had to reduce my sleeping patterns, I'd usually slow play it. Sleeping and waking at consistent times is pretty important for controlling the amount you sleep. From then on usually I would just work on a pattern of reducing my sleep at set amounts every few days maybe, depending on how soon I need to cut my sleeping down. It would also depend on how long you take to adjust to lesser sleep. For now we'll keep it at every 4 days maybe. I would reduce my sleep by half an hour and sit at that number for a few days until I've adapted to it. Then reduce it by another half hour, maybe 15 minutes if half an hour is too hard to adapt to at first, whatever you find yourself adapting to easier). Then it's just simply keeping up the pattern until you adjust to less and less sleep over time. Lots of coffee helps too. However, since I would do this a lot at uni during the semesters, and then sleep like a rock during holidays, one thing I DID notice is that sometimes if I'm feeling sleepy a lot of the time, it would be because I'm getting significantly more sleep than I need rather than not enough (especially after major projects are due and I would just be sleeping all day) and just end up feeling incredibly drained most of the time. Give it a thought. You might not need as much sleep as you think, rather just being stuck in a pattern. Most of my teachers tell me similar things about sleep. I do design so a lot of my uni tutors/lecturers would have to shift their sleeping patterns constantly to adjust to major projects as well so it's very doable. You should also maybe look into power naps as well. I don't know how much truth there is to it but it's a big strategy in Japan for maintaining productivity during work days and AFAIK they work significantly longer hours than your average western full time job as well. This article is pretty old but it was the first thing that came up on google. I'm sure you could find better things if you spend the time. http://biznik.com/articles/afternoon-nap-is-the-new-trend-in-productivity
Thanks for your answer, this is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for, you reduced your sleep time step-by-step. I thought of doing the exact thing myself, but I was unsure of how to do it.
Can you give me some numbers maybe, just to get a feel for it?
How long do you sleep when there is no pressure?
How long did you sleep when you were on your reduced schedule? And did you still feel rested and as clear of mind?
On August 09 2012 20:00 Epoch wrote:
sleeping is alot of digestion. thats why when you eat big meals or meals in general at certain times of the day you get tired.
eat healthy easy to digest foods. you will have alot more energy.
might help, gl
Thanks, I always try to eat healthy and my last meal is around 18:00, at least 5 hours before I go to sleep, that should be sufficient I hope. Come to think of it... I really did not put that much care into that lately..
This seems to be a real interesting topic, lots of replys so quickly, <3 you TL!!
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Sleep periods per 24 hours
sleeping 9+ hours a day = bad
sleeping 8-8.5 hours a day = best
sleeping less then 7.5 hours a day= horrible
This was though to be by my psihology teacher somewhere where I was 12.
Spliting sleep.
Only acceptable if you sleep at or around noon, no more than 1 hour.
In this case it is acceptable to sleep 7.5 hours/ night but no less.
Power napping, coffee, energy drinks and other whatever bullshit you may hear about a wonder plant, miraculous zen-fu exercise
It has a beneffic imediate effect now, but it has a stacking detrimental effect over time. Sooner or later your body will suffer.
It is acceptable if you do this rarely. No actualy figure but I would say around 5 day/month.
This is your bio-rithm, you can work around it, fool yourself you cheated the sistem, but in the end, when you are around retirement age and your body is nowhere near in top shape you will eventualy fall to this either you like it or not.
Edit*
Afterthough, on second look. I am sorry I got dragged into this. I am a bit silly for biting this question, and so are you my friend for not asking the right question, and so are the rest of the condescendent people in this thread.
Problem
Not enough free time.
24h - 9 hours sleep - 8 hours work - 2.5 daily quests - 2 comute - 1 hours exercise - the remaining time is not enough.
Solution in front of everyone noses:
1)Quit your job, find another job closer to home.
2)Find a home closer to your job.
3) If you cannot do or afford any of the above, cut your free time to zero, your house chores to half, get fat, out of shape whatever and get an education, it will suck ballz the next 4 years but you`ll have 50 years to catch up.
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On August 09 2012 20:10 tertos wrote:
Sleep periods per 24 hours
sleeping 9+ hours a day = bad
sleeping 8-8.5 hours a day = best
sleeping less then 7.5 hours a day= horrible
This was though to be by my psihology teacher somewhere where I was 12.
Spliting sleep.
Only acceptable if you sleep at or around noon, no more than 1 hour.
In this case it is acceptable to sleep 7.5 hours/ night but no less.
Power napping, coffee, energy drinks and other whatever bullshit you may hear about a wonder plant, miraculous zen-fu exercise
It has a beneffic imediate effect now, but it has a stacking detrimental effect over time. Sooner or later your body will suffer.
It is acceptable if you do this rarely. No actualy figure but I would say around 5 day/month.
This is your bio-rithm, you can work around it, fool yourself you cheated the sistem, but in the end, when you are around retirement age and your body is nowhere near in top shape you will eventualy fall to this either you like it or not.
Wow, I think your view is incredibly one-dimensional. And your psychology teacher probably has no idea what he is talking about. It is proven that people require different amounts of sleep. There are millions out there who don't need more than 6 hours. My dad is one of those.
People are not machines, they do not function strictly under certain exact requirements, they differ from one another and are able to adapt.
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The first thing that caught my attention was your way to work. While not unusual that people drive 1+ hours to work and back, I never understood why. Instead of reducing your sleep time, why not look to reduce the time you need to drive to work? Though this depends on your current life situation. I know for some people it's not that easy because either they have family or a house and don't want to move closer to work or look for a job closer to home.
I only need about 6-10 minutes to work depending on traffic. So that's about 12-20 minutes a day.
If you're bent on cutting sleep time, you should just try to stick to 7 hours. Your body eventually will get used to it. When I was younger I slept a lot as well (8-9 hours), but for a while now I'm doing fine with about 7 hours. Weekends I usually sleep longer though. Diet-wise it helps if you don't eat too much or drink any alcohol before sleeping.
I never really took note where my time goes every day, so I'll just write it down now.
7 hours sleep
40 minutes for morning/evening hygene
20 minutes to work
8 1/2 hours work
1/2 hour of excercise
17 hours gone with sleeping, working and staying in shape, so I'm left with 7 hours free time each day. Maybe minus 1-2 hours for other tasks, but that varies greatly.
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No pressure I usually sleep 7.5 hours a day, sometimes 8 depending on whether I go to the gym that day or not. However, when I have project work I usually have to reduce down to 6 hours of sleep on average to match up to the extra work I have to manage. So normally I would take around 2 weeks to cut down my sleep, using the strategy I mentioned earlier, cutting down by 20-30 minute blocks until I'm used to it. I'll be honest. At first, I never feel rested after reducing my sleep, not as much as I used to. However, eventually I find my body adapts to having less sleep and I don't notice the difference that much anymore.
Only when I cut down to like 4 hours of sleep a night do I find myself struggling during the day but that usually only happens right towards the end of my projects and it's just a case of having to soldier on through.
Sometimes I do find that I'll have days where I'm just so unproductive that I feel like I would have just been better off sleeping with my extra time that day than trying to force myself to work. But this is usually only when I'm forcing myself down to as few hours as possible. Since you're doing yours more for extra leisure time, I don't think it would be that bad to take a day to get some extra sleep instead.
The concept of sleep debt is something I will go out and say just doesn't work for me. I don' t know if you've tried it, but what I've noticed is when I get my body used to sleeping specific hours, I tend to automatically wake up in the morning so attempting to get extra sleep on the weekends is something I physically can't do since I'm not big on naps. You might have better luck with this than I do though
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Move closer to your work place, or get a job closer to your home.
Do that 1 hour exercise only few times a week like weekends and 1 or 2 weekends.
Or better yet go to your work with a bike, so you get your exercise on your work travel. You would save thousands of euros doing this as well, if you go to work by car or public transportation atm.
Also as you get older you should be able to deal with less sleep. And your energy level also depends on your diet, so maybe eat more food that gives long lasting energy like high fiber products.
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Welcome to the real world, everyone told you not to grow up didnt they!?
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No you really can't reduce sleep time despite various claims to the contrary (binaural beats, biphasic sleep, etc). While sleeping your entire body is repairing itself, most noticeably your skin. It also processes your memories in various ways. All these take time, you just can't skip them without side effects.
However you can greatly improve your quality of sleep, which is at least as important as the amount of sleep. For quite a while my sleep was utter crap since I slept randomly and made many mistakes but over time I discovered a few cheap tricks that helped me tremendously:
- Don't drink coffee after 16:00. Caffeine has a biological half-life of 5 hours, you'll have trouble falling asleep if you drink coffee too late.
- Drink at most 2 or 3 cups of coffee a day or equivalent. Caffeine is not a substitute for sleep.
- Go to sleep early, for me that's before 23:00. Don't sleep at day. Sleeping in sunlight guarantees low-quality sleep.
- Go to sleep and wake up at consistent times every day, don't sleep randomly. Your body will get used to the routine and will be much more efficient. I know this is hard when you are a university student, but try it. At least you will have less trouble adjusting when you start going to work.
- Get a softer, more comfortable bed. Don't "get used to" uncomfortable, hard beds or awkward sleeping positions.
- Get a progressive alarm clock (or an appropriate app for your phone), it improves your awakenings and mornings greatly.
- Don't play video games (especially not something competitive), use the computer, or study anything before going to bed. Your body will stuck in some kind of hyperactive/overworked state and you will have trouble falling asleep. Instead I recommend some light reading in the bed to relax (get an e-book reader, books are heavy and a bit awkward to read in the bed).
- Don't leave on your computer or any music when you are going to bed. It's much better to sleep to silence than various noises.
- Try to do some daily exercise. Apart from being healthy, you will have zero trouble falling asleep if you exhaust yourself physically. Biking and jogging on alternate days worked for me.
- Try to shower before going to sleep, much more comfortable to sleep clean.
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EPT
