EPTPresident Obama Re-Elected - Page 123
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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On June 10 2012 00:32 xDaunt wrote: Saying that the private sector is doing fine was incredibly stupid, regardless of the context. That is why Obama is catching so much crap for it, and deservedly so. It's not incredibly stupid, it's the truth. Private sector employment has been going up and up and will continue to go up and up. Public sector employment is going down. Obama's remarks is essentially to say that the private sector has recovered which is true and that the focus should be on getting public sector employment back up because there will be more public sector cuts and public sector employment is trending downwards. It's what's dragging employment down. Look at the stats. The private sector IS doing just fine. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On June 10 2012 00:39 paralleluniverse wrote: It's not incredibly stupid, it's the truth. Private sector employment has been going up and up and will continue to go up and up. Public sector employment is going down. Obama's remarks is essentially to say that the private sector has recovered which is is true, and that the focus should be on getting public sector employment back up, because it's what's dragging the employment down. Look at the stats. The private sector IS doing just fine. Haha, don't be ridiculous. No one in their right mind would be comfortable with this economy in an election year. Seriously, I really, really hope he keeps touting how well the private sector is doing. It will guarantee a landslide loss. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On June 10 2012 00:44 xDaunt wrote: Haha, don't be ridiculous. No one in their right mind would be comfortable with this economy in an election year. Seriously, I really, really hope he keeps touting how well the private sector is doing. It will guarantee a landslide loss. Because the way to fix the economy is to dig our heads in the sand, to ignore the stats, and to ignore the truth... And to have a balanced-budget amendment. Oh wait -- states already have a balanced budget amendment, and that's why they're cutting spending in the face of depressed tax revenue, and they're doing that by cutting state and local level employment, and so public sector employment keeps falling, in order to keep their budget balanced as required by law. Meanwhile in the private sector, which lost 4.3 million jobs in the GFC, has created 4.3 million jobs back, and it's trending upwards, at a rate of about 2.2 million jobs a year. But let's just ignore the facts, because facts are ridiculous. Clearly, we need right-wing ideology, not facts. The solution is to not ignore stats, to understand the state of the economy, and to provide more stimulus, this time mainly in the form of aid to state and local governments. But here's what the Republican's think of stimulus: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/08/c-b-o-s-take-on-the-stimulus/ | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
On June 10 2012 00:44 xDaunt wrote: Haha, don't be ridiculous. No one in their right mind would be comfortable with this economy in an election year. Seriously, I really, really hope he keeps touting how well the private sector is doing. It will guarantee a landslide loss. The private sector and the economy as a whole are not the same thing. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On June 10 2012 01:15 Signet wrote: The private sector and the economy as a whole are not the same thing. Of course not they're not technically, but for all intents and purposes, they are effectively the same given 1) how big the private sector is, and 2) given the dependence of the public sector on the private sector for tax receipts. Here's the bottom line. Everyone knows that Obama's comment was incredibly stupid and something that's going to come back to haunt him. That is why Obama walked the comment back just hours after he made it. You can bet that it's a line that he'll never repeat. I don't understand all of the myopic defenses and justifications for what he said. There simply are no good ones. | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
Now there are caveats about those private sector jobs. One is that the new jobs don't pay as highly as the old ones did -- we've replaced $30/hr private sector jobs with $20/hr private sector jobs. And another is that, while the number of jobs in the private sector today is the same as it was in 2009, the working age population has increased in that time, so we would actually want aggregate private employment to have increased versus 2009. Lastly, the private sector wasn't healthy in January 2009 as that was several months into the recession. We might look at summer or early fall 2008 as an example of a healthier private sector. But the fact remains that, if public sector employment had remained the same as it was when Obama took office, unemployment would be about a point lower than it is today. We're not even fully saving on government expenditures from those jobs being cut, since most of those people are on unemployment. This is a drag on our economy. | ||
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bK-
United States326 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
That said, I'm going to try and get as many Democrats out of Congress as I can (a total of 2). Democratic Congress drove our debt through the roof. Obama's been working fine with both parties, so now we just need to get the congressmen to agree with each other, and maybe we'll go somewhere. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21862 Posts
On June 10 2012 03:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm actually switching over to Obama (opposed him in 2008). I like his foreign affairs policy so far, and I think Romney's economic policy won't do much to solve our debt. We need higher taxes, not tax cuts. We need to get money and just start using it more wisely. That said, I'm going to try and get as many Democrats out of Congress as I can (a total of 2). Democratic Congress drove our debt through the roof. Obama's been working fine with both parties, so now we just need to get the congressmen to agree with each other, and maybe we'll go somewhere. How have the 2 parties been working well in Congress? There have been a lot of stupid fights over stupid things from both sides. Imo the only way that America can get its stuff in order is for 4 years of 1 party controlling both the Presidency and Congress so they can actualy do there job instead of fight. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:08 Gorsameth wrote: How have the 2 parties been working well in Congress? There have been a lot of stupid fights over stupid things from both sides. Imo the only way that America can get its stuff in order is for 4 years of 1 party controlling both the Presidency and Congress so they can actualy do there job instead of fight. I think you misunderstood me. Obama gets along fine with both parties. Him and Boehner have been getting closer together over time. But the Democrats and Republicans in Congress (not Obama) are the ones in gridlock. Obama with Republican Senate and House would still work just as fine. They'd just have different policies, maybe closer to the center with Obama there. | ||
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Adila
United States874 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I think you misunderstood me. Obama gets along fine with both parties. Him and Boehner have been getting closer together over time. But the Democrats and Republicans in Congress (not Obama) are the ones in gridlock. Obama with Republican Senate and House would still work just as fine. They'd just have different policies, maybe closer to the center with Obama there. That's wishful thinking as long as you have the Tea Party Republicans rejecting anything Obama supports. Vote in some moderates and you might have a point. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:13 Adila wrote: That's wishful thinking as long as you have the Tea Party Republicans rejecting anything Obama supports. Vote in some moderates and you might have a point. Who's a moderate? A few weeks ago in health class we were watching a video on abortion. And the two groups were either in complete support of it or completely against it. But no middle ground. No compromises like "If we can prove she was raped then it's okay". And that's where all the people are. The thing is we can't have any moderates because then they don't have a party. Republicans think they're too liberal, Democrats think they're too conservative. And nobody gives them the money they need to get their message out. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21862 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:16 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Who's a moderate? A few weeks ago in health class we were watching a video on abortion. And the two groups were either in complete support of it or completely against it. But no middle ground. No compromises like "If we can prove she was raped then it's okay". And that's where all the people are. The thing is we can't have any moderates because then they don't have a party. Republicans think they're too liberal, Democrats think they're too conservative. And nobody gives them the money they need to get their message out. Abortion is hardly a good example for moderation. That said you are correct. A 2 party system will always force parties to either extreme end of the spectrum. | ||
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forgottendreams
United States1771 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:16 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Who's a moderate? A few weeks ago in health class we were watching a video on abortion. And the two groups were either in complete support of it or completely against it. But no middle ground. No compromises like "If we can prove she was raped then it's okay". And that's where all the people are. The thing is we can't have any moderates because then they don't have a party. Republicans think they're too liberal, Democrats think they're too conservative. And nobody gives them the money they need to get their message out. You can have moderates, and we will have moderates again. You probably don't know many moderates now because they got voted out in disgusting partisan battles, scandal or "retirement" (aka I cant win the primary). Some of the greatest senators in history like Lugar (a foreign policy god voted out by association Obama ads, cool) Arlen Specter, Olympia Snowe (simply one of the best ever), Jim Webb, Ted Stevens, Nelson.... ect. Just because its cool to be a bratty partisan now won't remain that way forever. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2277 Posts
On April 19 2012 18:24 murphs wrote: Dear America, Vote Obama. Sincerely, Rest of the fucking world. perfect. | ||
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HunterX11
United States1048 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:24 Gorsameth wrote: Abortion is hardly a good example for moderation. That said you are correct. A 2 party system will always force parties to either extreme end of the spectrum. I'm not fan of a 2 party system, but one of its few advantages is that in practice it pushes both parties toward the middle. We have a total of one democratic socialist and zero avowed segregationists in Congress. Not exactly extremist. If we had a proportional system, we would probably have a Progressive Party and Dixiecrat Party or something like that (and also would probably just end up with a grand coalition to shut them out, lol). | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On June 10 2012 02:42 xDaunt wrote: Of course not they're not technically, but for all intents and purposes, they are effectively the same given 1) how big the private sector is, and 2) given the dependence of the public sector on the private sector for tax receipts. Here's the bottom line. Everyone knows that Obama's comment was incredibly stupid and something that's going to come back to haunt him. That is why Obama walked the comment back just hours after he made it. You can bet that it's a line that he'll never repeat. I don't understand all of the myopic defenses and justifications for what he said. There simply are no good ones. Wow, you're a complete partisan hack who cares nothing about facts or the truth. | ||
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smarty pants
United States78 Posts
[B]On June 10 2012 11:21 paralleluniverse wrote: Wow, you're a complete partisan hack who cares nothing about facts or the truth. Cool ad hominem attack. | ||
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AmorFatiAbyss
51 Posts
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