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On November 05 2012 01:22 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 00:30 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 00:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 23:30 WniO wrote:On November 04 2012 23:17 Feartheguru wrote:On November 04 2012 23:08 Gorsameth wrote:On November 04 2012 23:04 Feartheguru wrote:On November 04 2012 22:59 Teradur wrote:On November 04 2012 07:32 Defacer wrote:David Frum, probably my favorite conservative pundit, endorsed Mitt Romney the other day. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/01/why-i-ll-vote-for-romney.htmlUnfortunately, as Andrew Sullivan points out, the fundamental basis for Frum's endorsement is the belief that Romney is a big fucking liar that's just saying whatever he thinks he needs to to win. And even then, you can only cross your fingers that your interpretation of Romney's actual, secret plans are correct. Even though those plans don't exist. Good job, Republican Party. Nice strat, bro. From the Article: "The question over his head is not a question about him at all. It's a question about his party - and that question is the same whether Romney wins or loses. The congressional Republicans have shown themselves a destructive and irrational force in American politics. But we won't reform the congressional GOP by re-electing President Obama. If anything, an Obama re-election will not only aggravate the extremism of the congressional GOP, but also empower them: an Obama re-election raises the odds in favor of big sixth-year sweep for the congressional GOP - and very possibly a seventh-year impeachment. A Romney election will at least discourage the congressional GOP from deliberately pushing the US into recession in 2013. Added bonus: a Romney presidency likely means that the congressional GOP will lose seats in 2014, as they deserve." I think David Frum is a reasonable man, but I must say that I have heard arguments like this a few times over the last weeks and I think it is a totally twisted way of approaching the "tea-party extremism"-problem. How can Frum, as a voter, reward these kind of tactics and, as a pundit, justify to give it as a reason to vote for Romney? This kind of bullshit logic is exactly what I've been complaining about. If Republicans win it'll set a precedent that holding the country hostage wins elections. What's to stop them from doing this every time Democrats win the presidency? In every other country i would say the people. in the US im not so sure. i guess we will have the answer next time the congress gets up for re-election. Except if the people are dumb even to buy that Obama is the reason for the poor economy, despite more jobs now than 4 years ago when jobs were decreasing at 500k/month, if Republicans win they'll get credit for the incoming recovery, and profit from their obstructionism. who cares as long as the economy is doing well. its like in sports Winning is all that matters and the dems were just as dicks to bush since they had control, not allowing shit to pass, just like the republicans trying to deny as much as obama can put through right now. the real question is once obama wins AND has control of the the senate/house will we see real change? The Democrats obstruction of Bush was many magnitudes below the ridiculous behaviour of some of the GoP to Obama. That said, politically it's been a smart strategy to filibuster the Democrat-sponsored legislation at record rates, provided that the Dems get blamed for a lack of progress, which it appears in many quarters they are. IT IS THE SAME EXACT STRATEGY THAT DEMS USED WHEN THEY WERE THE MINORITY. I cannot for the life of me understand how some of you can say things like this with a straight face.... It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. These same people talk about how conservatives are intellectually dishonest on tax and budget matters. The hypocrisy is too much... Tell me something here, do you: 1) Not know that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of fillibusters 2) Think it's irrelevant that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of filibusters 3) Ignore that fact because it doesn't suit your point 4) Actually think you're the one that's intellectually honest Sigh. You Democrats love that number, don't you? It's the only argument you have. Yet none of you understand how laws are made at all.
I'm not a Democrat. I'm a RINO, I guess, but mind explaining what else there is to it? I look at the filibuster number and see a bunch of Republican babies in Congress who didn't get their way so their going to block everything they don't want. If it's different, I would like to know how. I'm not the only one who feels this way.
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On November 05 2012 01:25 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:22 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 00:30 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 00:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 23:30 WniO wrote:On November 04 2012 23:17 Feartheguru wrote:On November 04 2012 23:08 Gorsameth wrote:On November 04 2012 23:04 Feartheguru wrote:On November 04 2012 22:59 Teradur wrote:
[quote]
From the Article:
"The question over his head is not a question about him at all. It's a question about his party - and that question is the same whether Romney wins or loses. The congressional Republicans have shown themselves a destructive and irrational force in American politics. But we won't reform the congressional GOP by re-electing President Obama. If anything, an Obama re-election will not only aggravate the extremism of the congressional GOP, but also empower them: an Obama re-election raises the odds in favor of big sixth-year sweep for the congressional GOP - and very possibly a seventh-year impeachment. A Romney election will at least discourage the congressional GOP from deliberately pushing the US into recession in 2013. Added bonus: a Romney presidency likely means that the congressional GOP will lose seats in 2014, as they deserve."
I think David Frum is a reasonable man, but I must say that I have heard arguments like this a few times over the last weeks and I think it is a totally twisted way of approaching the "tea-party extremism"-problem. How can Frum, as a voter, reward these kind of tactics and, as a pundit, justify to give it as a reason to vote for Romney?
This kind of bullshit logic is exactly what I've been complaining about. If Republicans win it'll set a precedent that holding the country hostage wins elections. What's to stop them from doing this every time Democrats win the presidency? In every other country i would say the people. in the US im not so sure. i guess we will have the answer next time the congress gets up for re-election. Except if the people are dumb even to buy that Obama is the reason for the poor economy, despite more jobs now than 4 years ago when jobs were decreasing at 500k/month, if Republicans win they'll get credit for the incoming recovery, and profit from their obstructionism. who cares as long as the economy is doing well. its like in sports Winning is all that matters and the dems were just as dicks to bush since they had control, not allowing shit to pass, just like the republicans trying to deny as much as obama can put through right now. the real question is once obama wins AND has control of the the senate/house will we see real change? The Democrats obstruction of Bush was many magnitudes below the ridiculous behaviour of some of the GoP to Obama. That said, politically it's been a smart strategy to filibuster the Democrat-sponsored legislation at record rates, provided that the Dems get blamed for a lack of progress, which it appears in many quarters they are. IT IS THE SAME EXACT STRATEGY THAT DEMS USED WHEN THEY WERE THE MINORITY. I cannot for the life of me understand how some of you can say things like this with a straight face.... It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. These same people talk about how conservatives are intellectually dishonest on tax and budget matters. The hypocrisy is too much... Tell me something here, do you: 1) Not know that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of fillibusters 2) Think it's irrelevant that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of filibusters 3) Ignore that fact because it doesn't suit your point 4) Actually think you're the one that's intellectually honest Sigh. You Democrats love that number, don't you? It's the only argument you have. Yet none of you understand how laws are made at all. Only one argument is necessary when all you can respond to it with is this LOL
... says the Canadian.
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On November 05 2012 01:26 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:25 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 01:22 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 00:30 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 00:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 23:30 WniO wrote:On November 04 2012 23:17 Feartheguru wrote:On November 04 2012 23:08 Gorsameth wrote:On November 04 2012 23:04 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
This kind of bullshit logic is exactly what I've been complaining about. If Republicans win it'll set a precedent that holding the country hostage wins elections. What's to stop them from doing this every time Democrats win the presidency? In every other country i would say the people. in the US im not so sure. i guess we will have the answer next time the congress gets up for re-election. Except if the people are dumb even to buy that Obama is the reason for the poor economy, despite more jobs now than 4 years ago when jobs were decreasing at 500k/month, if Republicans win they'll get credit for the incoming recovery, and profit from their obstructionism. who cares as long as the economy is doing well. its like in sports Winning is all that matters and the dems were just as dicks to bush since they had control, not allowing shit to pass, just like the republicans trying to deny as much as obama can put through right now. the real question is once obama wins AND has control of the the senate/house will we see real change? The Democrats obstruction of Bush was many magnitudes below the ridiculous behaviour of some of the GoP to Obama. That said, politically it's been a smart strategy to filibuster the Democrat-sponsored legislation at record rates, provided that the Dems get blamed for a lack of progress, which it appears in many quarters they are. IT IS THE SAME EXACT STRATEGY THAT DEMS USED WHEN THEY WERE THE MINORITY. I cannot for the life of me understand how some of you can say things like this with a straight face.... It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. These same people talk about how conservatives are intellectually dishonest on tax and budget matters. The hypocrisy is too much... Tell me something here, do you: 1) Not know that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of fillibusters 2) Think it's irrelevant that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of filibusters 3) Ignore that fact because it doesn't suit your point 4) Actually think you're the one that's intellectually honest Sigh. You Democrats love that number, don't you? It's the only argument you have. Yet none of you understand how laws are made at all. Only one argument is necessary when all you can respond to it with is this LOL ... says the Canadian.
How sad, can't respond to a simple argument because he has nothing.... calls me a..... Canadian.... well.... I guess I better go sit in the corner of my igloo and cry.
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He's just here to argue. It doesn't matter what you say.
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On November 05 2012 01:30 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:26 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:25 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 01:22 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 00:30 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 00:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 23:30 WniO wrote:On November 04 2012 23:17 Feartheguru wrote:On November 04 2012 23:08 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
In every other country i would say the people. in the US im not so sure. i guess we will have the answer next time the congress gets up for re-election.
Except if the people are dumb even to buy that Obama is the reason for the poor economy, despite more jobs now than 4 years ago when jobs were decreasing at 500k/month, if Republicans win they'll get credit for the incoming recovery, and profit from their obstructionism. who cares as long as the economy is doing well. its like in sports Winning is all that matters and the dems were just as dicks to bush since they had control, not allowing shit to pass, just like the republicans trying to deny as much as obama can put through right now. the real question is once obama wins AND has control of the the senate/house will we see real change? The Democrats obstruction of Bush was many magnitudes below the ridiculous behaviour of some of the GoP to Obama. That said, politically it's been a smart strategy to filibuster the Democrat-sponsored legislation at record rates, provided that the Dems get blamed for a lack of progress, which it appears in many quarters they are. IT IS THE SAME EXACT STRATEGY THAT DEMS USED WHEN THEY WERE THE MINORITY. I cannot for the life of me understand how some of you can say things like this with a straight face.... It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. These same people talk about how conservatives are intellectually dishonest on tax and budget matters. The hypocrisy is too much... Tell me something here, do you: 1) Not know that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of fillibusters 2) Think it's irrelevant that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of filibusters 3) Ignore that fact because it doesn't suit your point 4) Actually think you're the one that's intellectually honest Sigh. You Democrats love that number, don't you? It's the only argument you have. Yet none of you understand how laws are made at all. Only one argument is necessary when all you can respond to it with is this LOL ... says the Canadian. How sad, can't respond to a simple argument because he has nothing.... calls me a..... Canadian.... well.... I guess I better go sit in the corner of my igloo and cry.
Sorry - igloos are Alaskan, and therefore belong to the US. Go find some other mode of shelter.
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On November 05 2012 01:26 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:22 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 00:30 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 00:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 23:30 WniO wrote:On November 04 2012 23:17 Feartheguru wrote:On November 04 2012 23:08 Gorsameth wrote:On November 04 2012 23:04 Feartheguru wrote:On November 04 2012 22:59 Teradur wrote:
[quote]
From the Article:
"The question over his head is not a question about him at all. It's a question about his party - and that question is the same whether Romney wins or loses. The congressional Republicans have shown themselves a destructive and irrational force in American politics. But we won't reform the congressional GOP by re-electing President Obama. If anything, an Obama re-election will not only aggravate the extremism of the congressional GOP, but also empower them: an Obama re-election raises the odds in favor of big sixth-year sweep for the congressional GOP - and very possibly a seventh-year impeachment. A Romney election will at least discourage the congressional GOP from deliberately pushing the US into recession in 2013. Added bonus: a Romney presidency likely means that the congressional GOP will lose seats in 2014, as they deserve."
I think David Frum is a reasonable man, but I must say that I have heard arguments like this a few times over the last weeks and I think it is a totally twisted way of approaching the "tea-party extremism"-problem. How can Frum, as a voter, reward these kind of tactics and, as a pundit, justify to give it as a reason to vote for Romney?
This kind of bullshit logic is exactly what I've been complaining about. If Republicans win it'll set a precedent that holding the country hostage wins elections. What's to stop them from doing this every time Democrats win the presidency? In every other country i would say the people. in the US im not so sure. i guess we will have the answer next time the congress gets up for re-election. Except if the people are dumb even to buy that Obama is the reason for the poor economy, despite more jobs now than 4 years ago when jobs were decreasing at 500k/month, if Republicans win they'll get credit for the incoming recovery, and profit from their obstructionism. who cares as long as the economy is doing well. its like in sports Winning is all that matters and the dems were just as dicks to bush since they had control, not allowing shit to pass, just like the republicans trying to deny as much as obama can put through right now. the real question is once obama wins AND has control of the the senate/house will we see real change? The Democrats obstruction of Bush was many magnitudes below the ridiculous behaviour of some of the GoP to Obama. That said, politically it's been a smart strategy to filibuster the Democrat-sponsored legislation at record rates, provided that the Dems get blamed for a lack of progress, which it appears in many quarters they are. IT IS THE SAME EXACT STRATEGY THAT DEMS USED WHEN THEY WERE THE MINORITY. I cannot for the life of me understand how some of you can say things like this with a straight face.... It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. These same people talk about how conservatives are intellectually dishonest on tax and budget matters. The hypocrisy is too much... Tell me something here, do you: 1) Not know that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of fillibusters 2) Think it's irrelevant that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of filibusters 3) Ignore that fact because it doesn't suit your point 4) Actually think you're the one that's intellectually honest Sigh. You Democrats love that number, don't you? It's the only argument you have. Yet none of you understand how laws are made at all. I'm not a Democrat. I'm a RINO, I guess, but mind explaining what else there is to it? I look at the filibuster number and see a bunch of Republican babies in Congress who didn't get their way so their going to block everything they don't want. If it's different, I would like to know how. I'm not the only one who feels this way.
The minority party since the Newt Speaker era has engaged in obvious obstructionism. They haven't always done it with filibusters. It's usually done in committee during votes of various sorts. You forget that the chair usually has a lot of subject-related power.
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On November 05 2012 01:33 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
He's just here to argue. It doesn't matter what you say.
After that response it's pretty obviously pointless. Common sense dictates that outsiders with no dog in the fight would view things more objectively. It takes a special kind of stupid to think it's somehow a negative thing.
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So I watched The Campaign yesterday. It was surprisingly... accurate.
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On November 05 2012 01:38 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:33 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
He's just here to argue. It doesn't matter what you say. After that response it's pretty obviously pointless. Common sense dictates that outsiders with no dog in the fight would view things more objectively. It takes a special kind of stupid to think it's somehow a negative thing.
I've always felt that this thread is a useful tool for educating people on things they may not fully understand. I hope if people take anything from me, it's a perspective they didn't previously think of or a fact they didn't know before. My goal has been to correct misunderstandings and open up discussion. My "response" was because you made clear your intent to simply disagree with whatever I said just because you were set on holding your world view dear. You are not open to new ideas.
Pat each other on the back for demeaning the guy who disagrees with your world view and congratulate yourself on a job well done. You're still wrong. I know people like me do extensive research and throw out these numbers and soundbites for you guys to grab on to, but it's frustrating when you don't realize that it. 718 billion? 5 trillion? The list goes on. Anything can be painted to make you sound right and your opponent wrong if you just pick the right stat to project as the authority on whether something is good/bad, right/wrong, yes/no. Without looking at it in context, stats mean nothing in politics. I don't expect a Canadian to fully understand the US legislative process; very few Americans even understand it. Hell, I'm always learning new things I didn't know before. But please don't lecture me on how that stat "proves" you are right.
But since you know all, would you mind giving us the numbers on committee obstructionism? If you're going to tell me I'm unilaterally wrong, back it up.
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On November 05 2012 01:34 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:26 Risen wrote:On November 05 2012 01:22 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 00:30 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 00:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 23:30 WniO wrote:On November 04 2012 23:17 Feartheguru wrote:On November 04 2012 23:08 Gorsameth wrote:On November 04 2012 23:04 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
This kind of bullshit logic is exactly what I've been complaining about. If Republicans win it'll set a precedent that holding the country hostage wins elections. What's to stop them from doing this every time Democrats win the presidency? In every other country i would say the people. in the US im not so sure. i guess we will have the answer next time the congress gets up for re-election. Except if the people are dumb even to buy that Obama is the reason for the poor economy, despite more jobs now than 4 years ago when jobs were decreasing at 500k/month, if Republicans win they'll get credit for the incoming recovery, and profit from their obstructionism. who cares as long as the economy is doing well. its like in sports Winning is all that matters and the dems were just as dicks to bush since they had control, not allowing shit to pass, just like the republicans trying to deny as much as obama can put through right now. the real question is once obama wins AND has control of the the senate/house will we see real change? The Democrats obstruction of Bush was many magnitudes below the ridiculous behaviour of some of the GoP to Obama. That said, politically it's been a smart strategy to filibuster the Democrat-sponsored legislation at record rates, provided that the Dems get blamed for a lack of progress, which it appears in many quarters they are. IT IS THE SAME EXACT STRATEGY THAT DEMS USED WHEN THEY WERE THE MINORITY. I cannot for the life of me understand how some of you can say things like this with a straight face.... It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. These same people talk about how conservatives are intellectually dishonest on tax and budget matters. The hypocrisy is too much... Tell me something here, do you: 1) Not know that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of fillibusters 2) Think it's irrelevant that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of filibusters 3) Ignore that fact because it doesn't suit your point 4) Actually think you're the one that's intellectually honest Sigh. You Democrats love that number, don't you? It's the only argument you have. Yet none of you understand how laws are made at all. I'm not a Democrat. I'm a RINO, I guess, but mind explaining what else there is to it? I look at the filibuster number and see a bunch of Republican babies in Congress who didn't get their way so their going to block everything they don't want. If it's different, I would like to know how. I'm not the only one who feels this way. The minority party since the Newt Speaker era has engaged in obvious obstructionism. They haven't always done it with filibusters. It's usually done in committee during votes of various sorts. You forget that the chair usually has a lot of subject-related power.
You didn't answer me. Let's settle the matter of filibustering before we move to the next indicator. Do you agree Republicans have been way more obstructionists than Democrats when it comes to filibustering?
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Its astounding that the Black approval rating is constantly above 90%, while black unemployment keeps getting worse and worse.
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Ugh, we've already given you all the charts about republican obstructionism. This isn't a controversial thing. Yes, they are being more obstructionist than normal and more obstructionist than the democrats under Bush. Hell, I'm pretty sure even Boehner would agree on that. Jesus.
I'm surprised that he misses another serious point with criminalizing abortion: Miscarriages.
Does a woman who has a miscarriage required to prove that there was no human involvement in the miscarriage? And if so, are we going to throw women in jail for miscarrying? Are we going to have 'miscarriage trials'? Miscarriages are reasonably common, and it's often a traumatic experience in of itself.
It's another point that Pro-lifers are completely silent about, because their position is absolutely insane and pragmatically psychotic.
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On November 05 2012 02:01 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:34 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:26 Risen wrote:On November 05 2012 01:22 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 00:30 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 00:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 23:30 WniO wrote:On November 04 2012 23:17 Feartheguru wrote:On November 04 2012 23:08 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
In every other country i would say the people. in the US im not so sure. i guess we will have the answer next time the congress gets up for re-election.
Except if the people are dumb even to buy that Obama is the reason for the poor economy, despite more jobs now than 4 years ago when jobs were decreasing at 500k/month, if Republicans win they'll get credit for the incoming recovery, and profit from their obstructionism. who cares as long as the economy is doing well. its like in sports Winning is all that matters and the dems were just as dicks to bush since they had control, not allowing shit to pass, just like the republicans trying to deny as much as obama can put through right now. the real question is once obama wins AND has control of the the senate/house will we see real change? The Democrats obstruction of Bush was many magnitudes below the ridiculous behaviour of some of the GoP to Obama. That said, politically it's been a smart strategy to filibuster the Democrat-sponsored legislation at record rates, provided that the Dems get blamed for a lack of progress, which it appears in many quarters they are. IT IS THE SAME EXACT STRATEGY THAT DEMS USED WHEN THEY WERE THE MINORITY. I cannot for the life of me understand how some of you can say things like this with a straight face.... It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. These same people talk about how conservatives are intellectually dishonest on tax and budget matters. The hypocrisy is too much... Tell me something here, do you: 1) Not know that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of fillibusters 2) Think it's irrelevant that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of filibusters 3) Ignore that fact because it doesn't suit your point 4) Actually think you're the one that's intellectually honest Sigh. You Democrats love that number, don't you? It's the only argument you have. Yet none of you understand how laws are made at all. I'm not a Democrat. I'm a RINO, I guess, but mind explaining what else there is to it? I look at the filibuster number and see a bunch of Republican babies in Congress who didn't get their way so their going to block everything they don't want. If it's different, I would like to know how. I'm not the only one who feels this way. The minority party since the Newt Speaker era has engaged in obvious obstructionism. They haven't always done it with filibusters. It's usually done in committee during votes of various sorts. You forget that the chair usually has a lot of subject-related power. You didn't answer me. Let's settle the matter of filibustering before we move to the next indicator. Do you agree Republicans have been way more obstructionists than Democrats when it comes to filibustering?
I stand by my original point that obstructionism has been continually growing and is not the "fault" of a single party. I'm not sure if that counts as a yes or no for your question.
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On November 05 2012 02:04 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
So who's looking to win?
Media will say obama, he probably does have a slight lead, especially because of our wacky system. A lot of it will depend on just how unspoken the religious vote has been. A lot of times they won't vote, other times they all vote, but they never talk to pollsters so its impossible to tell if they like Romney or not until its over.
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Why doesn't anyone ever talk about the third party candidates?
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On November 05 2012 02:08 FeUerFlieGe wrote:
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about the third party candidates?
Because it's a two horse race and it's close. If Paul ran as an independent, we'd be talking about him. I don't believe Johnson is even on the ballot in every state.
The Green Party and the Libertarian Party are the only two real third parties in the national discussion. The Green Party people are going to mostly vote for Obama because they won't want Romney, while the Libertarian Party will mostly vote for Romney because they (mostly) won't want Obama.
It's the issue with a FPTP system. Third parties are only relevant when you know who's going to win already.
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On November 05 2012 02:04 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
So who's looking to win?
Based on all the research I've done and all the polls I've looked at objectively (I didn't vote for Romney or Obama)....
It looks neck and neck at the moment, with Obama with the slightest of a lead in some polls. If the trending from Romney continues however it might be enough to take it by Tuesday.
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On November 05 2012 01:33 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:30 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 01:26 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:25 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 01:22 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 00:30 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 00:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 23:30 WniO wrote:On November 04 2012 23:17 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
Except if the people are dumb even to buy that Obama is the reason for the poor economy, despite more jobs now than 4 years ago when jobs were decreasing at 500k/month, if Republicans win they'll get credit for the incoming recovery, and profit from their obstructionism.
who cares as long as the economy is doing well. its like in sports Winning is all that matters and the dems were just as dicks to bush since they had control, not allowing shit to pass, just like the republicans trying to deny as much as obama can put through right now. the real question is once obama wins AND has control of the the senate/house will we see real change? The Democrats obstruction of Bush was many magnitudes below the ridiculous behaviour of some of the GoP to Obama. That said, politically it's been a smart strategy to filibuster the Democrat-sponsored legislation at record rates, provided that the Dems get blamed for a lack of progress, which it appears in many quarters they are. IT IS THE SAME EXACT STRATEGY THAT DEMS USED WHEN THEY WERE THE MINORITY. I cannot for the life of me understand how some of you can say things like this with a straight face.... It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. These same people talk about how conservatives are intellectually dishonest on tax and budget matters. The hypocrisy is too much... Tell me something here, do you: 1) Not know that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of fillibusters 2) Think it's irrelevant that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of filibusters 3) Ignore that fact because it doesn't suit your point 4) Actually think you're the one that's intellectually honest Sigh. You Democrats love that number, don't you? It's the only argument you have. Yet none of you understand how laws are made at all. Only one argument is necessary when all you can respond to it with is this LOL ... says the Canadian. How sad, can't respond to a simple argument because he has nothing.... calls me a..... Canadian.... well.... I guess I better go sit in the corner of my igloo and cry. Sorry - igloos are Alaskan, and therefore belong to the US. Go find some other mode of shelter.
Igloos were built primarily in the central Arctic ie: what is now Nunavut and the NWT, why don't you go find another mode of shelter.
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On November 05 2012 02:06 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 02:01 kwizach wrote:On November 05 2012 01:34 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:26 Risen wrote:On November 05 2012 01:22 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 01:18 Feartheguru wrote:On November 05 2012 00:30 BluePanther wrote:On November 05 2012 00:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 04 2012 23:30 WniO wrote:On November 04 2012 23:17 Feartheguru wrote:
[quote]
Except if the people are dumb even to buy that Obama is the reason for the poor economy, despite more jobs now than 4 years ago when jobs were decreasing at 500k/month, if Republicans win they'll get credit for the incoming recovery, and profit from their obstructionism.
who cares as long as the economy is doing well. its like in sports Winning is all that matters and the dems were just as dicks to bush since they had control, not allowing shit to pass, just like the republicans trying to deny as much as obama can put through right now. the real question is once obama wins AND has control of the the senate/house will we see real change? The Democrats obstruction of Bush was many magnitudes below the ridiculous behaviour of some of the GoP to Obama. That said, politically it's been a smart strategy to filibuster the Democrat-sponsored legislation at record rates, provided that the Dems get blamed for a lack of progress, which it appears in many quarters they are. IT IS THE SAME EXACT STRATEGY THAT DEMS USED WHEN THEY WERE THE MINORITY. I cannot for the life of me understand how some of you can say things like this with a straight face.... It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest it makes it hard for me to take you seriously. These same people talk about how conservatives are intellectually dishonest on tax and budget matters. The hypocrisy is too much... Tell me something here, do you: 1) Not know that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of fillibusters 2) Think it's irrelevant that Republicans have set a record many times the previous one for the number of filibusters 3) Ignore that fact because it doesn't suit your point 4) Actually think you're the one that's intellectually honest Sigh. You Democrats love that number, don't you? It's the only argument you have. Yet none of you understand how laws are made at all. I'm not a Democrat. I'm a RINO, I guess, but mind explaining what else there is to it? I look at the filibuster number and see a bunch of Republican babies in Congress who didn't get their way so their going to block everything they don't want. If it's different, I would like to know how. I'm not the only one who feels this way. The minority party since the Newt Speaker era has engaged in obvious obstructionism. They haven't always done it with filibusters. It's usually done in committee during votes of various sorts. You forget that the chair usually has a lot of subject-related power. You didn't answer me. Let's settle the matter of filibustering before we move to the next indicator. Do you agree Republicans have been way more obstructionists than Democrats when it comes to filibustering? I stand by my original point that obstructionism has been continually growing and is not the "fault" of a single party. I'm not sure if that counts as a yes or no for your question.
This was not your original point. If this was your original point, then you would have agreed immediately the Republicans have been more obstructionist than the Democrats under Bush. You said it was the same or similar. Now you're saying that obstructionism is growing.
If anything this is a reversal of position.
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EPT
