President Obama Re-Elected - Page 1177
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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
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Maxyim
430 Posts
http://unskewedpolls.com/unskewed_projection_2012 president_02.cfm More info about UnSkewed Polls: "The mainstream media typically skews these polls by sampling registered voters (which means less enthused supporters of the Democrats are counted even though they are less likely to vote) instead of likely voters, and Democrats are over-sampled." http://www.examiner.com/article/is-the-latest-washington-post-abc-poll-skewed-for-obama Before all of you liberal types go on a Google frenzy to try to prove this wrong; it's already been tried. The official MSM response boils down to "haha, look here, a strawman that I will knock down without addressing the core point you are making." See for yourself: http://www.therightsphere.com/2012/09/polls-are-not-rigged/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-karpf/unskewed-polls-meet-simpl_b_1913266.html http://freakoutnation.com/2012/09/26/rachel-maddow-obliterates-the-new-republican-fantasy-electorate-of-skewed-polls/ So, who all is ready for a landslide? :-) | ||
Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On November 04 2012 14:31 Maxyim wrote: Hey, have you guys seen this: http://unskewedpolls.com/unskewed_projection_2012 president_02.cfm More info about UnSkewed Polls: "The mainstream media typically skews these polls by sampling registered voters (which means less enthused supporters of the Democrats are counted even though they are less likely to vote) instead of likely voters, and Democrats are over-sampled." http://www.examiner.com/article/is-the-latest-washington-post-abc-poll-skewed-for-obama Before all of you liberal types go on a Google frenzy to try to prove this wrong; it's already been tried. The official MSM response boils down to "haha, look here, a strawman that I will knock down without addressing the core point you are making." See for yourself: http://www.therightsphere.com/2012/09/polls-are-not-rigged/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-karpf/unskewed-polls-meet-simpl_b_1913266.html http://freakoutnation.com/2012/09/26/rachel-maddow-obliterates-the-new-republican-fantasy-electorate-of-skewed-polls/ So, who all is ready for a landslide? :-) I nominate this for post of the day. Sure gave me a good laugh. On a related note, this remind me of this | ||
0mar
United States567 Posts
The man has only one agenda and that's using polls/data to predict the election as accurately as possible. | ||
cabarkapa
United States1011 Posts
On November 04 2012 14:31 Maxyim wrote: Hey, have you guys seen this: http://unskewedpolls.com/unskewed_projection_2012 president_02.cfm More info about UnSkewed Polls: "The mainstream media typically skews these polls by sampling registered voters (which means less enthused supporters of the Democrats are counted even though they are less likely to vote) instead of likely voters, and Democrats are over-sampled." http://www.examiner.com/article/is-the-latest-washington-post-abc-poll-skewed-for-obama Before all of you liberal types go on a Google frenzy to try to prove this wrong; it's already been tried. The official MSM response boils down to "haha, look here, a strawman that I will knock down without addressing the core point you are making." See for yourself: http://www.therightsphere.com/2012/09/polls-are-not-rigged/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-karpf/unskewed-polls-meet-simpl_b_1913266.html http://freakoutnation.com/2012/09/26/rachel-maddow-obliterates-the-new-republican-fantasy-electorate-of-skewed-polls/ So, who all is ready for a landslide? :-) The amusing thing about that is + Show Spoiler + Romney -- a suprise for many still expecting Obama to carry Colorado Romney -- many don't expect this Romney -- the surprise of the night Romney -- this will surprise many Romney -- this will surprise many Romney -- most don't expect Romney to win New Mexico Romney -- major surprise Romney -- big time upset | ||
Maxyim
430 Posts
I'll make it even simpler for you to understand. Put 100 people in the room and ask them who they are voting for. You will probably get something like: 48 - Romney 48 - Obama 4 - Undecided / Other Now, ask these same people how likely they are to vote, and average it out by party line. Current #s indicate that you will get the following: 51 - Romney 45 - Obama 4 - Undecided / Other Note that these figures completely exclude early voting, which favors Romney as of the last update by Gallup. http://www.gallup.com/poll/158420/registered-voters-already-cast-ballots.aspx | ||
TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On November 04 2012 14:56 Maxyim wrote: Hey, giggle and snicker all you want; no skin off my back. It all boils down to one undisputable fact - our current polling and aggregation techniques boil down to calling a sample set of people (that is intended to reproduce demographics of a particular electorate; this is the reason why different pollsters have different results), and asking them a simple question ("who do you support?"). Throughout this process; other pollsters are asking different questions (for our example, "how likely are you to vote?"). For whatever reason, these two data points, while completely relevant to each other, are never connected by the MSM (this includes Fox). I'll make it even simpler for you to understand. Put 100 people in the room and ask them who they are voting for. You will probably get something like: 48 - Romney 48 - Obama 4 - Undecided / Other Now, ask these same people how likely they are to vote, and average it out by party line. Current #s indicate that you will get the following: 51 - Romney 45 - Obama 4 - Undecided / Other Note that these figures completely exclude early voting, which favors Romney as of the last update by Gallup. http://www.gallup.com/poll/158420/registered-voters-already-cast-ballots.aspx Unskewed polls is a joke because they "unskew" polls by assuming a completely arbitrary partisan makeup then weighting things from there. At least Rasmussen has a formal methodology for gauging the partisan makeup of those they poll to justify their weighting. And you know, pollsters don't ask "how likely are you to vote," that's flat out wrong. There's likely voter models though. Edit: Gallup's polls also still haven't taken into account the post-Hurricane effect and the poor play most of Romney's ads have had in the swing states/elsewhere. | ||
Maxyim
430 Posts
On November 04 2012 15:00 TheTenthDoc wrote: Unskewed polls is a joke because they "unskew" polls by assuming a completely arbitrary partisan makeup then weighting things from there. At least Rasmussen has a formal methodology for gauging the partisan makeup of those they poll to justify their weighting. And you know, pollsters don't ask "how likely are you to vote," that's flat out wrong. There's likely voter models though. Edit: Gallup's polls also still haven't taken into account the post-Hurricane effect and the poor play most of Romney's ads have had in the swing states/elsewhere. No, the only "assumption" is that everyone who says they are going to vote this way or that way will not make it to the polls. Considering right-wing intensity is higher than left-wing intensity, the skew is towards the right-wing. I explained all of this above already... Those likely voter models get their data from...where, do you think? Each side plans their ground game around the "how likely you are to vote" factor; you can be assured that there are polling agencies engaged to ask these questions. I have not found this data to be publicly available by state; my guess is that it is because each party is protecting it. We do however know what it looks like on a national level from the Gallup article that I linked above. Sandy is not going to negatively impact either candidate (each experienced positive and negative aspects and neither managed to "step in it," per se). As for ads; most people have made up their minds well beyond Sandy. This final stretch is all about encouraging people to actually make it to the polls. | ||
EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
Good thing that districting fail would be a bit harder to have happen for the Presidential election... | ||
Maxyim
430 Posts
On November 04 2012 15:11 EtherealDeath wrote: Curious. Hadn't thought much of it when I did early voting on Friday, but actually my ballot had me voting for not my congressional district, but rather a neighboring one. Not that it is likely to matter since both districts are traditionally Democratic and I happened to vote for the Democratic candidate as well. Good thing that districting fail would be a bit harder to have happen for the Presidential election... That makes no sense at all; your district is based on your home address and your ballot should have included your local, state and Federal representatives based on that address. Are you sure that you are not really located in this "neighboring" district? | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On November 04 2012 15:11 EtherealDeath wrote: Curious. Hadn't thought much of it when I did early voting on Friday, but actually my ballot had me voting for not my congressional district, but rather a neighboring one. Not that it is likely to matter since both districts are traditionally Democratic and I happened to vote for the Democratic candidate as well. Good thing that districting fail would be a bit harder to have happen for the Presidential election... You sure it isn't because the lines were redrawn recently? | ||
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On November 04 2012 XX:XX Maxyim wrote: Impossible to argue with you. Let's talk Tuesday night. | ||
EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On November 04 2012 15:15 Maxyim wrote: That makes no sense at all; your district is based on your home address and your ballot should have included your local, state and Federal representatives based on that address. Are you sure that you are not really located in this "neighboring" district? I'm in district 4 of my state. My ballot was for district 13. District 13 is across the highway that is about 3/4 mile from my house. Source - US Congress "Find your representative" site tells me my address is District 4. I also know who I happened to vote for, and he's the representation for District 13. I didn't notice what the little nagging thought at the back of my head was at the time, as I have read up on a few representatives from my state, so it didn't immediately click to me that this wasn't my representative, as the guy was familiar to me. On November 04 2012 15:16 Souma wrote: You sure it isn't because the lines were redrawn recently? As of tonight, 10 minutes ago, US Congress site tells me my exact address (not zip code, exact address) is District 4, not 13. Sadly I already turned in the ballot back on Friday, so there's no retrieving it/fixing it. | ||
TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On November 04 2012 15:11 Maxyim wrote: No, the only "assumption" is that everyone who says they are going to vote this way or that way will not make it to the polls. Considering right-wing intensity is higher than left-wing intensity, the skew is towards the right-wing. I explained all of this above already... Those likely voter models get their data from...where, do you think? Each side plans their ground game around the "how likely you are to vote" factor; you can be assured that there are polling agencies engaged to ask these questions. I have not found this data to be publicly available by state; my guess is that it is because each party is protecting it. We do however know what it looks like on a national level from the Gallup article that I linked above. Sandy is not going to negatively impact either candidate (each experienced positive and negative aspects and neither managed to "step in it," per se). As for ads; most people have made up their minds well beyond Sandy. This final stretch is all about encouraging people to actually make it to the polls. Have you read unskewed polls methodology? They come out and say they reweight every single poll based upon a partisan makeup they assume. And by only citing Gallup you're ignoring every single state poll out there, which indicates that the differential Gallup assumes in the popular vote simply cannot be there (and in general state polls are better at gauging likely voters due to being better able to sample local demographics). Likely voter models are based around the ones used for previous elections, generally, and are far more about "did you vote in previous elections" than just straight-up asking "are you going to vote?" You can find most of them publicly available online, and good poll aggregators (a.k.a. not unskewed polls) try to factor the reliability of the likely voter model into the weighting of the polls. Sandy is more important in that no one paid any attention to Romney for a week and Obama was 100% of the positive news cycle (even on Fox). If there are any independents "breaking" they're not likely to go to Romney anymore. Edit: As for the actual early vote totals, the only ones I've heard were collected 4 days ago and circulated by Republican sites, but haven't been updated since and most early voting dates on the east coast were postponed. The rest is all Gallup sampling data. I did find an update here: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/whos-really-winning-early-voting/264436/ That indicates the early voting on a state level is more or less a wash (with the fact that Iowa is going for Obama a good sign for OH and Wisconsin). | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On November 04 2012 15:18 EtherealDeath wrote: I'm in district 4 of my state. My ballot was for district 13. District 13 is across the highway that is about 3/4 mile from my house. Source - US Congress "Find your representative" site tells me my address is District 4. I also know who I happened to vote for, and he's the representation for District 13. I didn't notice what the little nagging thought at the back of my head was at the time, as I have read up on a few representatives from my state, so it didn't immediately click to me that this wasn't my representative, as the guy was familiar to me. As of tonight, 10 minutes ago, US Congress site tells me my exact address (not zip code, exact address) is District 4, not 13. Sadly I already turned in the ballot back on Friday, so there's no retrieving it/fixing it. That's odd. I'd take it up with your city, seriously. They could be screwing over a lot of voters. | ||
EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On November 04 2012 15:23 Souma wrote: That's odd. I'd take it up with your city, seriously. They could be screwing over a lot of voters. Closed till Monday :D Wonder what they can even do about it. On the positive side though, it's highly unlikely to matter in these particular two districts as the opposing party candidate really does not have much of a snowball's chance in hell, as both are long serving incumbents with good support. Unless of course magically the opposition candidates win :D | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On November 04 2012 15:26 EtherealDeath wrote: Closed till Monday :D Wonder what they can even do about it. On the positive side though, it's highly unlikely to matter in these particular two districts as the opposing party candidate really does not have much of a snowball's chance in hell, as both are long serving incumbents with good support. Unless of course magically the opposition candidates win :D For all we know they could be shifting all the Democratic votes to one district while retaining the Republican votes in another district. :p | ||
EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On November 04 2012 15:27 Souma wrote: For all we know they could be shifting all the Democratic votes to one district while retaining the Republican votes in another district. :p Well, let's just say the margins are expected to be large enough that if the Republican candidate won in either district, it'd be extremely surprising. It would be like Obama winning Mississippi and Alabama. | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On November 04 2012 15:28 EtherealDeath wrote: Well, let's just say the margins are expected to be large enough that if the Republican candidate won in either district, it'd be extremely surprising. It would be like Obama winning Mississippi and Alabama. Just curious. What state are you in? | ||
EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
North Carolina. Also, I'm doing some googling and it appears that... this is going to sound really funny, but apparently after 2010, the 13th district and 4th district were semi merged in some areas in such a way that actually the 13th district representative's residence is no long in the 13th district but rather in the 4th district, and actually the 13th district's representative represents part of district 4 and can run against district 4's representation in those areas, but those areas are still technically district 4, so under the Congress site it claims I'm in district 4, rather than the across the highway district 13. What the fuck. From http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Redistricting_in_North_Carolina On July 19, the North Carolina GOP released a revised version of its Congressional redistricting maps. Overall, the map is seen as significantly worse for the state's Congressional Democrats. Unlike the previous plan which weakened four Democratic districts but kept incumbents within their original districts, the new draft paired four Democrats in two districts. Specifically, the plan paired Reps. Larry Kissell (D) and Mike McIntyre (D) in the strongly-Republican 8th District. The plan also paired Rep. Brad Miller (D) and Rep. David Price (D) in Price's District 4. Miller, who still lives near his old district (13), did not plan to challenge Price. Following the 2010 Census results, North Carolina did not gain or lose any congressional seats, maintaining its 13 representatives. Under the new map, current 13th District Representative Brad Miller (D) finds himself living in and representing part of the new 4th District. He may run against fellow Democrat and current 4th District representative David Price. But Brad Miller was on my ballot and David Price was not, so is it considering me part of the Brad Miller only District 13 then? Since I'm obviously not part of the 4th or 4th/13th hybrid thing, as David Price is actually running for re-election, so he'd have been on my ballot if that was the case. | ||
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