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On May 04 2012 21:40 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:13 ulan-bat wrote:On May 04 2012 20:47 DOUDOU wrote:On May 04 2012 08:01 Geiko wrote:
Lybia and Bettancour funding, Sarkozy hasn't been condemned yet. He's protected by presidential immunity but that doesn't mean he is guilty. When you think about it, both PS and UMP's campaign were controlled and priced at 20M. do you seriously believe that UMPs campaign cost 50M€ ? The people controlling must of done a piss poor job to miss out on 30M ( plus whatever Bettancourt gave him ). I followed the 2007 campaign, I don't see on what UMP spent all that money. The PS had the exact same funding as far as I'm concerned. that's the whole point, faking campaing funds is how you divert money Or it could be 5 millions instead of 50, then what? Or it could have been a maximum but Sarkozy didn't need it all. Or Mediapart was fooled by some informer and nothing happened at all. Who knows really? The only thing I believe is that Sarkozy has a hard time defending his position with facts, for now at least. He's all about trust, "really, you would believe this libyan more than me?". We'll see what the justice says. It's not 5 Millions, the document says 50 Millions, which is why it's most likely a fake. And yes, who knows ? So why publish it 7 days before an election if you know that this case won't be solved before this. It's a political act, by a political media to damage Sarkozy's image. At best it is true, yeaaah we got a scoop. At worse, it's a fake, but people will know that after the elections so we don't care, the damage to Sarkozy's image would have already been done. Sarkozy defends his positions with facts: Fact: The person who supposedly wrote the letter said it was a fake Fact: The person who supposedly received the letter said it was fake Fact: The current president of the transition gouverment of Lybia said it was fake. What has the other side got ? Takkieddine (who said he would vote for Hollande) said it's possible that it's not a fake.
You say it's not 5 millions as if you knew it, but at the same time you say the very document is fake. There might have been a deal nevertheless. Saying THIS document is fake is in no way a proof that there wasn't a deal.
It may be Mediapart being crazy and having investigated for 10 month and ruining it with a false proof in the end.
Oh, and the facts you listed will be checked by justice in due time. There are only allegations at this point.
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Socialists are already lying for the legislatives : on his tracts, Malek Boutih is using pictures of Mélenchon, Eva Joly and some others asking for people to vote socialist while they only said to vote for Hollande for the 2nd round of the presidential election, not the legislatives, and have their own candidate.
http://www.lemonde.fr/election-presidentielle-2012/breve/2012/05/04/legislatives-melenchon-accuse-boutih-ps-de-manipulation-pour-un-tract-reproduisant-sa-photo_1696105_1471069.html
I can't convince myself to vote for Hollande because of all the anti-democratic things he's done in the past like not respecting the referendum, he was accused of cheating to be elected as the leader of the parti and he's still saying he may not respect his political agreement with the Green parti (apparently he repeated it in the debate the other day but I didn't notice). Someone who doesn't respect democracy doesn't get my vote.
While Mélenchon is asking for people to vote Hollande, this morning at Bourdin's he said there were 3 vote : a vote Hollande, a vote Sarkozy, a white vote and he would pick Hollande. So in my opinion he hints that you can vote white or null if you voted for him. That's what I'll do, I'll cross out his name when I vote.
The good part is if Sarkozy ever wins, the socialist now have the Senate so they can block any unfair law the UMP votes (unless they agree with it like for the MES). Also it is highly unprobable Hollande won't win, there are apps to calculate yourself how votes will swing and unless all the FN and Modem vote for Sarkozy he won't win. Try for yourself you'll have a hard time making Sarkozy win (though it's not impossible) http://www.rue89.com/rue89-presidentielle/2012/04/26/ferez-vous-gagner-sarkozy-notre-simulateur-de-second-tour-231586
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On May 05 2012 02:18 chuky500 wrote:Socialists are already lying for the legislatives : on his tracts, Malek Boutih is using pictures of Mélenchon, Eva Joly and some others asking for people to vote socialist while they only said to vote for Hollande for the 2nd round of the presidential election, not the legislatives, and have their own candidate. http://www.lemonde.fr/election-presidentielle-2012/breve/2012/05/04/legislatives-melenchon-accuse-boutih-ps-de-manipulation-pour-un-tract-reproduisant-sa-photo_1696105_1471069.htmlI can't convince myself to vote for Hollande because of all the anti-democratic things he's done in the past like not respecting the referendum, he was accused of cheating to be elected as the leader of the parti and he's still saying he may not respect his political agreement with the Green parti (apparently he repeated it in the debate the other day but I didn't notice). Someone who doesn't respect democracy doesn't get my vote. While Mélenchon is asking for people to vote Hollande, this morning at Bourdin's he said there were 3 vote : a vote Hollande, a vote Sarkozy, a white vote and he would pick Hollande. So in my opinion he hints that you can vote white or null if you voted for him. That's what I'll do, I'll cross out his name when I vote. The good part is if Sarkozy ever wins, the socialist now have the Senate so they can block any unfair law the UMP votes (unless they agree with it like for the MES). Also it is highly unprobable Hollande won't win, there are apps to calculate yourself how votes will swing and unless all the FN and Modem vote for Sarkozy he won't win. Try for yourself you'll have a hard time making Sarkozy win (though it's not impossible) http://www.rue89.com/rue89-presidentielle/2012/04/26/ferez-vous-gagner-sarkozy-notre-simulateur-de-second-tour-231586
The null vote is something I totally respect, and that I would totally understand, considering that I considered it myself.
I just hope none of us will regret it sunday evening and for the 5 next years.
And please remember that you can not block a law with the senate. You can just delay it.
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Null votes are great when it comes to extrem situation and when lots of people do it. But that's not the case this week end.
So yeah, please, vote for you convictions, for your kids, for whatever you want so you won't regret this later.
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On May 05 2012 10:42 Healasouhait wrote:
Null votes are great when it comes to extrem situation and when lots of people do it. But that's not the case this week end.
So yeah, please, vote for you convictions, for your kids, for whatever you want so you won't regret this later.
Very very often, democracy is about voting for the least terrible candidate. It's sad, but maturity is to accept it.
People who didn't vote for John Kerry or Al Gore because they were not that great helped Bush to get into power. They are co-responsible.
Then, when the election are over, it's anybody's right and duty to fight for his or her ideas without compromises...
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On May 05 2012 02:18 chuky500 wrote:Socialists are already lying for the legislatives : on his tracts, Malek Boutih is using pictures of Mélenchon, Eva Joly and some others asking for people to vote socialist while they only said to vote for Hollande for the 2nd round of the presidential election, not the legislatives, and have their own candidate. http://www.lemonde.fr/election-presidentielle-2012/breve/2012/05/04/legislatives-melenchon-accuse-boutih-ps-de-manipulation-pour-un-tract-reproduisant-sa-photo_1696105_1471069.htmlI can't convince myself to vote for Hollande because of all the anti-democratic things he's done in the past like not respecting the referendum, he was accused of cheating to be elected as the leader of the parti and he's still saying he may not respect his political agreement with the Green parti (apparently he repeated it in the debate the other day but I didn't notice). Someone who doesn't respect democracy doesn't get my vote. While Mélenchon is asking for people to vote Hollande, this morning at Bourdin's he said there were 3 vote : a vote Hollande, a vote Sarkozy, a white vote and he would pick Hollande. So in my opinion he hints that you can vote white or null if you voted for him. That's what I'll do, I'll cross out his name when I vote. The good part is if Sarkozy ever wins, the socialist now have the Senate so they can block any unfair law the UMP votes (unless they agree with it like for the MES). Also it is highly unprobable Hollande won't win, there are apps to calculate yourself how votes will swing and unless all the FN and Modem vote for Sarkozy he won't win. Try for yourself you'll have a hard time making Sarkozy win (though it's not impossible) http://www.rue89.com/rue89-presidentielle/2012/04/26/ferez-vous-gagner-sarkozy-notre-simulateur-de-second-tour-231586
I agree that using Melechon's image etc is bullshit.
However your other arguments are...
- Not respecting the referendum is a thing both candidates did, and PS first asked for another referendum on the constitution modification which would allow the change, then voted for the change when they got refused the referendum. Sarkozy said yes all the way.
- I don't know about the cheating, so I won't comment on it. Then again, if we consider suspicions on Hollande's side, we have to consider suspicions on Sarkozy's side, too, and there are a whole lot of them.
- No, controlling the senate don't allow one to block laws, because if the assembly and the senate disagree, the assembly always has the last word.
About the blank vote, I wish it'd be included in the final numbers, and you'd need more than 50% of REAL votes to get elected. We might have to vote several times but hey, that would maybe bring them to actually respect what people think... Then I could vote blank to show how I'm pissed of those politicians. As of now, I don't really have a choice, hollande is the far less worse vote according to my standards. But meh~.... 
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According to belgian medias Hollande is winning with 53%
French medias have to wait until 8pm to disclose results
Adieu Sarkozy :D
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Yay, open borders for our "friends" from Africa, cheers!
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On May 07 2012 02:28 Maxquatre wrote:
Yay, open borders for our "friends" from Africa, cheers!
yup you didn't have much success in life, and it's going to get worse for you :D
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On May 07 2012 02:28 Maxquatre wrote:
Yay, open borders for our "friends" from Africa, cheers!
Great news for the French SC2 scene, they may find another Stephano !
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Most boring finish for an election ever. :/
Xas expecting Hollande to have a little more than 52% tho.
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WOOP WOOP!!!! Very happy right now, despite getting knocked out the UK qualifiers.
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On May 07 2012 02:53 endy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 02:28 Maxquatre wrote:
Yay, open borders for our "friends" from Africa, cheers! Great news for the French SC2 scene, they may find another Stephano !
Haha love that answer.
I don't particularly like Hollande but a defeat for the racists is a victory for the country.
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On May 07 2012 03:08 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 02:53 endy wrote:On May 07 2012 02:28 Maxquatre wrote:
Yay, open borders for our "friends" from Africa, cheers! Great news for the French SC2 scene, they may find another Stephano ! Haha love that answer. I don't particularly like Hollande but a defeat for the racists is a victory for the country.
People voting Sarkozy are racists ? wtf?
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On May 07 2012 03:08 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 02:53 endy wrote:On May 07 2012 02:28 Maxquatre wrote:
Yay, open borders for our "friends" from Africa, cheers! Great news for the French SC2 scene, they may find another Stephano ! Haha love that answer. I don't particularly like Hollande but a defeat for the racists is a victory for the country.
hahaha same here
you nailed it
François Hollande is the real France.
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cool, now i'm sure that in 2017 it will be a president of the right side
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On May 07 2012 03:10 Mosquitow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 03:08 MilesTeg wrote:On May 07 2012 02:53 endy wrote:On May 07 2012 02:28 Maxquatre wrote:
Yay, open borders for our "friends" from Africa, cheers! Great news for the French SC2 scene, they may find another Stephano ! Haha love that answer. I don't particularly like Hollande but a defeat for the racists is a victory for the country. People voting Sarkozy are racists ? wtf?
He wasn't really going slow to get the people who voted FN to get on his side. x)
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EPT
