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If you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4356 Posts
July 23 2016 01:55 GMT
#12721
Another 10 dead in Munich overnight.
Attacker was Iranian-German, ISIS 'celebrating' online but it's unknown right now whether the guy was actually linked to the organisation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
dontforgetosmile
Profile Joined April 2012
87 Posts
July 23 2016 03:09 GMT
#12722
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/07/20/the-loophole-mass-assault-weapons-ban/eEvOBklTriWcGznmXqSpYM/story.html

The directive specifically outlines two tests to determine what constitutes a “copy” or “duplicate” of a prohibited weapon. If a gun’s operating system is essentially the same as that of a banned weapon, or if the gun has components that are interchangeable with those of a banned weapon, it’s a “copy” or “duplicate,” and it is illegal. Assault weapons prohibited under our laws cannot be altered in any way to make their sale or possession legal in Massachusetts.

pretty sure they mean 'action' when they say 'operating system'. if that's the case, this probably outlaws most if not all semiauto rifles.

some fun highlights:
These are not weapons of self-defense. They are weapons used to commit mass murder. And they have no business being in civilian hands.

They market “state compliant” copycat versions of their assault weapons to Massachusetts buyers. They sell guns without a flash suppressor or folding or telescoping stock, for example, small tweaks that do nothing to limit the lethalness of the weapon.


not sure what the current laws are in MA, but this does not sound legal in the slightest.
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-24 03:57:55
July 24 2016 03:56 GMT
#12723
IIRC, Massachusetts also considers most semiautomatic shotguns as assault weapons. Since parts interchangeability is now a qualifier for AWs, this may effectively ban most pump-action shotguns as well due to interchangeability with illegal semiautomatic guns.

Or it might be completely arbitrary in terms of enforcement. Who knows.

The reasoning is backwards as well. If, as she says, removal of bayonets and other attachments creates a copycat weapon with identical lethality, what was the point of banning weapons with such attachments for being especially lethal in the first place?
dontforgetosmile
Profile Joined April 2012
87 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-24 06:01:19
July 24 2016 05:48 GMT
#12724
On July 24 2016 12:56 acker wrote:
IIRC, Massachusetts also considers most semiautomatic shotguns as assault weapons. Since parts interchangeability is now a qualifier for AWs, this may effectively ban most pump-action shotguns as well due to interchangeability with illegal semiautomatic guns.

Or it might be completely arbitrary in terms of enforcement. Who knows.

The reasoning is backwards as well. If, as she says, removal of bayonets and other attachments creates a copycat weapon with identical lethality, what was the point of banning weapons with such attachments for being especially lethal in the first place?

yuuuuuuuup.

once again, this highlights the importance of knowing about guns before you support dumb shit like this and claim that no one is trying to outright ban guns.

hell, depending on your interpretation, the atf considers an ar lower receiver as a firearm in and of itself. so anything that isn't the lower receiver (which is now de facto banned) that can be attached to another rifle, means that other rifle can technically be banned as an assault weapon. what about anything that accepts pmags? or anything with a picatinny rail? anything that accepts muzzle devices?

not to mention any semiauto that uses DI or a gas piston can also be considered the same 'operating system', or any other system that is shared with the rifles on their list can now be banned.

it's likely that MA is following the lead of CA here by not technically banning more guns, but redefining what an assault weapon is after already passing legislation to ban those instead.

it's events like this that keep the NRA funded.
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-24 06:18:27
July 24 2016 06:09 GMT
#12725
By "most pump shotguns", I mean "every pump shotgun I can think of ."

There may be one or two exceptions out there, but I can't name one. If enforced as declared, it would be a de facto shotgun ban apart from antiques and antique replicas.

An analogy would be if the Republicans "merely" banned the use of polymer-based compounds in condoms, the turned around and said nobody was out to ban contraception.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
July 24 2016 20:28 GMT
#12726
On July 23 2016 10:55 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Another 10 dead in Munich overnight.
Attacker was Iranian-German, ISIS 'celebrating' online but it's unknown right now whether the guy was actually linked to the organisation.

According to police there is no evidence of any affiliation withh ISIS. Though he was researching Breivik and similar shootings online.
passive quaranstream fan
JoeCool
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany2520 Posts
July 25 2016 09:46 GMT
#12727
So apparently there has been another shooting in Florida, 2 dead and 17 wounded:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/at-least-two-dead-after-shooting-at-fort-myers-nightclub-in-flor/
Clonester
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany2808 Posts
July 25 2016 09:56 GMT
#12728
On July 25 2016 18:46 JoeCool wrote:
So apparently there has been another shooting in Florida, 2 dead and 17 wounded:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/at-least-two-dead-after-shooting-at-fort-myers-nightclub-in-flor/


There is a direct flight from Düsseldorf to Fort Myers and I do more vacations there than anywhere else... come one world, stop being an asshole this year.
Bomber, Attacker, DD, SOMEBODY, NiKo, Nex, Spidii
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
July 25 2016 11:24 GMT
#12729
On July 25 2016 18:56 Clonester wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2016 18:46 JoeCool wrote:
So apparently there has been another shooting in Florida, 2 dead and 17 wounded:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/at-least-two-dead-after-shooting-at-fort-myers-nightclub-in-flor/


There is a direct flight from Düsseldorf to Fort Myers and I do more vacations there than anywhere else... come one world, stop being an asshole this year.

I'm sorry the killings inconvenienced you.

Aso I'm sure you didn't mean to be rude but I found your comment distasteful. Probably its just me tho.
sorry for dem one liners
JoeCool
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany2520 Posts
July 25 2016 11:50 GMT
#12730
On July 25 2016 20:24 NukeD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2016 18:56 Clonester wrote:
On July 25 2016 18:46 JoeCool wrote:
So apparently there has been another shooting in Florida, 2 dead and 17 wounded:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/at-least-two-dead-after-shooting-at-fort-myers-nightclub-in-flor/


There is a direct flight from Düsseldorf to Fort Myers and I do more vacations there than anywhere else... come one world, stop being an asshole this year.

I'm sorry the killings inconvenienced you.

Aso I'm sure you didn't mean to be rude but I found your comment distasteful. Probably its just me tho.


Definitely it's just you, his comment was'nt rude at all.
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 12:01:34
July 25 2016 12:01 GMT
#12731
Rip. Next one's probably going to happen again in two weeks or so~~
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45022 Posts
July 25 2016 12:06 GMT
#12732
On July 25 2016 21:01 DucK- wrote:
Rip. Next one's probably going to happen again in two weeks or so~~


Statistically, there's a mass shooting every day in the United States
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 12:39:26
July 25 2016 12:36 GMT
#12733
On July 24 2016 14:48 dontforgetosmile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2016 12:56 acker wrote:
IIRC, Massachusetts also considers most semiautomatic shotguns as assault weapons. Since parts interchangeability is now a qualifier for AWs, this may effectively ban most pump-action shotguns as well due to interchangeability with illegal semiautomatic guns.

Or it might be completely arbitrary in terms of enforcement. Who knows.

The reasoning is backwards as well. If, as she says, removal of bayonets and other attachments creates a copycat weapon with identical lethality, what was the point of banning weapons with such attachments for being especially lethal in the first place?

yuuuuuuuup.

once again, this highlights the importance of knowing about guns before you support dumb shit like this and claim that no one is trying to outright ban guns.

hell, depending on your interpretation, the atf considers an ar lower receiver as a firearm in and of itself. so anything that isn't the lower receiver (which is now de facto banned) that can be attached to another rifle, means that other rifle can technically be banned as an assault weapon. what about anything that accepts pmags? or anything with a picatinny rail? anything that accepts muzzle devices?

not to mention any semiauto that uses DI or a gas piston can also be considered the same 'operating system', or any other system that is shared with the rifles on their list can now be banned.

it's likely that MA is following the lead of CA here by not technically banning more guns, but redefining what an assault weapon is after already passing legislation to ban those instead.

it's events like this that keep the NRA funded.

The root of the problem is writing gun laws that make specific types of fire arms illegal that the gun manufactures won’t just build around. If they make specific models of guns illegal, they make new ones. If they write a law that dictates what an “assault weapon” is, they design a gun that just slips under the requirements. They pass a law to ban the new gun and people take a .22 rifle and modify it so it’s meets the requirements of an assault weapon to prove something. This song and dance has been going on sign the Reagan administration. Making reasonable gun laws is hard when it’s a game of wack a mole.

And the gun manufactures keep the NRA pretty flush with money. They love to sell guns to everyone. You. Me. Drug runners. Terrorist. The mentally ill. Someone with 5 different criminal charges and a restraining order for death threats against their spouse.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 17:13:24
July 25 2016 17:09 GMT
#12734
Are you claiming that Massachusetts hasn't been able to clearly articulate what makes an "assault weapon" so especially dangerous relative to a normal gun for...over three decades? And this is the fault of gun manufacturers?

Are you one of those people who thinks that the extremely simple ability to name gun parts is mere semantics rather than, say, a broader ignorance about everything deeper about firearms, firearm mechanics, and effective firearm legislation?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 25 2016 17:13 GMT
#12735
I am claiming that gun manufactures don’t give a fuck about anyone’s safety and just want to sell guns to everyone. And this is obvious by the fact that the NRA opposes anything the government does in relation to guns beyond let anyone who asks buy them.

Gun laws could be better written, but that would involve people who like guns taking part in the process. And that doesn’t happen often. Or ever.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
July 25 2016 17:21 GMT
#12736
Well obviously the manufacturers should have no say in gun legislation.

Lobbies are a part of USA politics, they fuck more than just firearm problems really.
maru lover forever
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18838 Posts
July 25 2016 17:23 GMT
#12737
On July 26 2016 02:21 Incognoto wrote:
Well obviously the manufacturers should have no say in gun legislation.

Lobbies are a part of USA politics, they fuck more than just firearm problems really.

Actually, lobbyists do a lot of good as well, particularly with regard to technical subjects that the government lacks the resources to study effectively. In the area of guns, however, you're definitely right.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-25 18:15:17
July 25 2016 17:29 GMT
#12738
On July 26 2016 02:13 Plansix wrote:
I am claiming that gun manufactures don’t give a fuck about anyone’s safety and just want to sell guns to everyone. And this is obvious by the fact that the NRA opposes anything the government does in relation to guns beyond let anyone who asks buy them.

Gun laws could be better written, but that would involve people who like guns taking part in the process. And that doesn’t happen often. Or ever.


Only people who oppose gun control can understand guns? Nothing is stopping Massachusetts legislators from reading wikipedia or taking gun education lessons. Or, for that matter, purchasing firearms to better understand them.

Pretty much every guns rights supporter in this thread also supports gun control in one form or another. Gun owners like UBCs (depending on how it's done) and even the NRA likes anti-suicide programs and gun safety measures. People are simply opposed to stupid laws and malicious legislation...and do not trust most gun control proponents to know what they are talking about.

Let me put it another way. You sound like a "compromise" sort of person. In what ways would you be willing to expand gun rights?
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
July 25 2016 18:43 GMT
#12739
On July 25 2016 20:50 JoeCool wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2016 20:24 NukeD wrote:
On July 25 2016 18:56 Clonester wrote:
On July 25 2016 18:46 JoeCool wrote:
So apparently there has been another shooting in Florida, 2 dead and 17 wounded:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/at-least-two-dead-after-shooting-at-fort-myers-nightclub-in-flor/


There is a direct flight from Düsseldorf to Fort Myers and I do more vacations there than anywhere else... come one world, stop being an asshole this year.

I'm sorry the killings inconvenienced you.

Aso I'm sure you didn't mean to be rude but I found your comment distasteful. Probably its just me tho.


Definitely it's just you, his comment was'nt rude at all.

Can't tell if serious or not.
passive quaranstream fan
dontforgetosmile
Profile Joined April 2012
87 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-26 00:44:59
July 26 2016 00:34 GMT
#12740
On July 25 2016 21:36 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2016 14:48 dontforgetosmile wrote:
On July 24 2016 12:56 acker wrote:
IIRC, Massachusetts also considers most semiautomatic shotguns as assault weapons. Since parts interchangeability is now a qualifier for AWs, this may effectively ban most pump-action shotguns as well due to interchangeability with illegal semiautomatic guns.

Or it might be completely arbitrary in terms of enforcement. Who knows.

The reasoning is backwards as well. If, as she says, removal of bayonets and other attachments creates a copycat weapon with identical lethality, what was the point of banning weapons with such attachments for being especially lethal in the first place?

yuuuuuuuup.

once again, this highlights the importance of knowing about guns before you support dumb shit like this and claim that no one is trying to outright ban guns.

hell, depending on your interpretation, the atf considers an ar lower receiver as a firearm in and of itself. so anything that isn't the lower receiver (which is now de facto banned) that can be attached to another rifle, means that other rifle can technically be banned as an assault weapon. what about anything that accepts pmags? or anything with a picatinny rail? anything that accepts muzzle devices?

not to mention any semiauto that uses DI or a gas piston can also be considered the same 'operating system', or any other system that is shared with the rifles on their list can now be banned.

it's likely that MA is following the lead of CA here by not technically banning more guns, but redefining what an assault weapon is after already passing legislation to ban those instead.

it's events like this that keep the NRA funded.

The root of the problem is writing gun laws that make specific types of fire arms illegal that the gun manufactures won’t just build around. If they make specific models of guns illegal, they make new ones. If they write a law that dictates what an “assault weapon” is, they design a gun that just slips under the requirements. They pass a law to ban the new gun and people take a .22 rifle and modify it so it’s meets the requirements of an assault weapon to prove something. This song and dance has been going on sign the Reagan administration. Making reasonable gun laws is hard when it’s a game of wack a mole.

And the gun manufactures keep the NRA pretty flush with money. They love to sell guns to everyone. You. Me. Drug runners. Terrorist. The mentally ill. Someone with 5 different criminal charges and a restraining order for death threats against their spouse.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls

i'm gonna keep posting this link until you understand that your primary concern in all of this is that rifles look and sound scary. when it comes to actual gun violence, there is one deciding feature that far outweighs the rest, and that is concealability. the same type of firearm that your average traffic cop carries kills far more people per year, by orders of magnitude, than rifles do.

yet here you are, blaming the NRA and gun manufacturers for shoddy and ineffective legislation that does nothing to curb the majority of gun violence. even if this ban were applied nationwide, you would've effectively eliminated 248 deaths and stripped millions of gun owners of their rights.

On July 26 2016 02:29 acker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2016 02:13 Plansix wrote:
I am claiming that gun manufactures don’t give a fuck about anyone’s safety and just want to sell guns to everyone. And this is obvious by the fact that the NRA opposes anything the government does in relation to guns beyond let anyone who asks buy them.

Gun laws could be better written, but that would involve people who like guns taking part in the process. And that doesn’t happen often. Or ever.


Only people who oppose gun control can understand guns? Nothing is stopping Massachusetts legislators from reading wikipedia or taking gun education lessons. Or, for that matter, purchasing firearms to better understand them.

this is an excellent article. imagine how most of you feel when you hear about congress trying to regulate the internet, that is what reading most of this thread feels like.
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