|
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On February 22 2012 17:57 Xapti wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 17:45 taitanik wrote:
if 3 teenagers jump on you with baseball bats ofcourse you want to have a gun and a lot of teenagers have nothing better to do these days than beating people up I'm not sure what your point is, but if it's in favor of handguns that's a pretty ineffective example scenario (probably also unrealistic, as I haven't heard of kids ganging up on others solely for entertainment). I'd much rather have 1 beaten-up kid (who possibly deserved it) than 1 kid who threw away his life for a life of prison, along with 3 dead people. Guns don't really save lives in civilian hands — all they do is put more people in jail, and kill more people even if it's criminals. Guns aren't the only defense option either — carrying around a long knife or pepper spray are pretty reasonable defenses even against 3 people.
By your logic we should also take away knives and pepper spray, since those have both killed people. In fact, knives can be more deadly as they have no stopping power until the stabbed has bled to unconciousness. Guns save lives daily. A baseball bat is deadly force, and a gun is a reasonable response. Most often the drawing of the firearm ends the altercation, and no shots are fired.
|
On February 22 2012 18:10 TanTzoR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:
While we are banning dangerous things, lets also ban cars. They are clearly designed to kill people. Lets ban skyscrapers(so people don't jump offf), busses(so depressed people don't step in front of them), motorcycles, alcohol, ciggarettes, McDonalds, bungee jumping, helicopters, knives, and swimming.
I am a law obiding citizen and I carry a gun everywhere I go. The ignorance in this thread amazes me.
What will YOU do when you see a child is being kidnapped at the mall? Take action? Or wait 15 minutes for the police, then watch him on the news (face down in a pond and sodomized.)
What will YOU do when a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
What will YOU do when you are out driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
What will YOU do when you are a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
These are the realities that Americans deal with daily. Your Starcraft will not matter when you are placed in this situation. You DO NOT have to become a victim. You have a human right to protect yourself.
In my state I can legally(and yes morally) use deadly force to prevent murder, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping, and a burglary in my home at night(for the Aussie above yes the correct response is to protect your family from being killed).
There are "Free Fire Zones" all over the US showing us why GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK. The law obiding citizen such as myself, is DISARMED by a ignorant politician in these zones. The criminals don't care what the law says, and they are ARMED. Keep reading and see how that works.
Here is a list of a few free fire zones.
September 11, 2001, thousands of innocent American citizens were brutally murdered by terrorists because pilots were not permitted to carry firearms in the cockpit.
Fort Hood Massacre, 13 murdered and 29 wounded because soldiers were not armed on base.
Virginia Tech Massacre, 32 people murdered and 16 others wounded because students and faculty with concealed carry permits were disarmed on university property by the state of Virginia. Virginia Tech students to this day cannot legally protect themselves.
Columbine High School Massacre, 12 students and 1 teacher murdered, 21 other students wounded, because faculty with concealed carry permits were not allowed to carry their concealed handguns on campus.
Killeen Texas Luby's Massacre, a woman watched her parents get murdered by a gunman. She was legally required to keep her gun in her car. She has testified across the country that her parents and 23 others were murdered in that Luby's because the government disarmed her.
When your gun rights are taken away, so many other freedoms will be lost with them. We have seen this countless times throughout history. I suggest each of you join the NRA. The are the foremost organization fighting for your freedom. They have had great success fighting ignorant gun control laws in the US. Gun control has never worked, and it never will.
Have you read the 40ish pages before? So you precisely said that: Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:These are the realities that Americans deal with daily.
The realities you talked about: Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote: a child is being kidnapped at the mall
a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
SO EVERY FUCKING DAY YOU DEAL WITH THAT. WE HAVE A JACK BAUER IN THE PLACE. I don't believe you are ignorant, just brainwashed. And probably never traveled. Otherwise you wouldn't say that gun control does not work. It works. It does not stop crimes, because wherever there is poverty there will be violence, but it lowers the risk of any crime to finish badly. Your Colombine example is retarded. If 2 random high school kids got weapons, it's because of the lack of gun control. Trust me they wouldn't have stabbed that many people. 95% of the gun owners live in a neighborhood were guns are not necessary for self defense.
lol United Kingdom. You are so brainwashed by your government. Believe what you want, but your people are not educated about firearms and your crime is soaring because criminals have nothing to fear.
User was banned for this post.
|
On February 22 2012 18:10 TanTzoR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:
While we are banning dangerous things, lets also ban cars. They are clearly designed to kill people. Lets ban skyscrapers(so people don't jump offf), busses(so depressed people don't step in front of them), motorcycles, alcohol, ciggarettes, McDonalds, bungee jumping, helicopters, knives, and swimming.
I am a law obiding citizen and I carry a gun everywhere I go. The ignorance in this thread amazes me.
What will YOU do when you see a child is being kidnapped at the mall? Take action? Or wait 15 minutes for the police, then watch him on the news (face down in a pond and sodomized.)
What will YOU do when a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
What will YOU do when you are out driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
What will YOU do when you are a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
These are the realities that Americans deal with daily. Your Starcraft will not matter when you are placed in this situation. You DO NOT have to become a victim. You have a human right to protect yourself.
In my state I can legally(and yes morally) use deadly force to prevent murder, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping, and a burglary in my home at night(for the Aussie above yes the correct response is to protect your family from being killed).
There are "Free Fire Zones" all over the US showing us why GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK. The law obiding citizen such as myself, is DISARMED by a ignorant politician in these zones. The criminals don't care what the law says, and they are ARMED. Keep reading and see how that works.
Here is a list of a few free fire zones.
September 11, 2001, thousands of innocent American citizens were brutally murdered by terrorists because pilots were not permitted to carry firearms in the cockpit.
Fort Hood Massacre, 13 murdered and 29 wounded because soldiers were not armed on base.
Virginia Tech Massacre, 32 people murdered and 16 others wounded because students and faculty with concealed carry permits were disarmed on university property by the state of Virginia. Virginia Tech students to this day cannot legally protect themselves.
Columbine High School Massacre, 12 students and 1 teacher murdered, 21 other students wounded, because faculty with concealed carry permits were not allowed to carry their concealed handguns on campus.
Killeen Texas Luby's Massacre, a woman watched her parents get murdered by a gunman. She was legally required to keep her gun in her car. She has testified across the country that her parents and 23 others were murdered in that Luby's because the government disarmed her.
When your gun rights are taken away, so many other freedoms will be lost with them. We have seen this countless times throughout history. I suggest each of you join the NRA. The are the foremost organization fighting for your freedom. They have had great success fighting ignorant gun control laws in the US. Gun control has never worked, and it never will.
Have you read the 40ish pages before? So you precisely said that: Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:These are the realities that Americans deal with daily.
The realities you talked about: Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote: a child is being kidnapped at the mall
a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
SO EVERY FUCKING DAY YOU DEAL WITH THAT. WE HAVE A JACK BAUER IN THE PLACE. I don't believe you are ignorant, just brainwashed. And probably never traveled. Otherwise you wouldn't say that gun control does not work. It works. It does not stop crimes, because wherever there is poverty there will be violence, but it lowers the risk of any crime to finish badly. Your Colombine example is retarded. If 2 random high school kids got weapons, it's because of the lack of gun control. Trust me they wouldn't have stabbed that many people. 95% of the gun owners live in a neighborhood were guns are not necessary for self defense. You are just what I call a fearman. You watch things on the news, you fear. You watch something on youtube, you fear. Of course in some cases a gun would have helped. But you need to see on a larger scale and take some recoil from the sensationalism the news feed you with.
I'm not afraid of anything. Do you buy insurance? Does buying insurance make you afraid something bad will happen? A gun is just another form of insurance.
|
On February 22 2012 18:14 Xglutlewl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 18:10 TanTzoR wrote:On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:
While we are banning dangerous things, lets also ban cars. They are clearly designed to kill people. Lets ban skyscrapers(so people don't jump offf), busses(so depressed people don't step in front of them), motorcycles, alcohol, ciggarettes, McDonalds, bungee jumping, helicopters, knives, and swimming.
I am a law obiding citizen and I carry a gun everywhere I go. The ignorance in this thread amazes me.
What will YOU do when you see a child is being kidnapped at the mall? Take action? Or wait 15 minutes for the police, then watch him on the news (face down in a pond and sodomized.)
What will YOU do when a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
What will YOU do when you are out driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
What will YOU do when you are a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
These are the realities that Americans deal with daily. Your Starcraft will not matter when you are placed in this situation. You DO NOT have to become a victim. You have a human right to protect yourself.
In my state I can legally(and yes morally) use deadly force to prevent murder, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping, and a burglary in my home at night(for the Aussie above yes the correct response is to protect your family from being killed).
There are "Free Fire Zones" all over the US showing us why GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK. The law obiding citizen such as myself, is DISARMED by a ignorant politician in these zones. The criminals don't care what the law says, and they are ARMED. Keep reading and see how that works.
Here is a list of a few free fire zones.
September 11, 2001, thousands of innocent American citizens were brutally murdered by terrorists because pilots were not permitted to carry firearms in the cockpit.
Fort Hood Massacre, 13 murdered and 29 wounded because soldiers were not armed on base.
Virginia Tech Massacre, 32 people murdered and 16 others wounded because students and faculty with concealed carry permits were disarmed on university property by the state of Virginia. Virginia Tech students to this day cannot legally protect themselves.
Columbine High School Massacre, 12 students and 1 teacher murdered, 21 other students wounded, because faculty with concealed carry permits were not allowed to carry their concealed handguns on campus.
Killeen Texas Luby's Massacre, a woman watched her parents get murdered by a gunman. She was legally required to keep her gun in her car. She has testified across the country that her parents and 23 others were murdered in that Luby's because the government disarmed her.
When your gun rights are taken away, so many other freedoms will be lost with them. We have seen this countless times throughout history. I suggest each of you join the NRA. The are the foremost organization fighting for your freedom. They have had great success fighting ignorant gun control laws in the US. Gun control has never worked, and it never will.
Have you read the 40ish pages before? So you precisely said that: On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:These are the realities that Americans deal with daily.
The realities you talked about: On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote: a child is being kidnapped at the mall
a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
SO EVERY FUCKING DAY YOU DEAL WITH THAT. WE HAVE A JACK BAUER IN THE PLACE. I don't believe you are ignorant, just brainwashed. And probably never traveled. Otherwise you wouldn't say that gun control does not work. It works. It does not stop crimes, because wherever there is poverty there will be violence, but it lowers the risk of any crime to finish badly. Your Colombine example is retarded. If 2 random high school kids got weapons, it's because of the lack of gun control. Trust me they wouldn't have stabbed that many people. 95% of the gun owners live in a neighborhood were guns are not necessary for self defense. lol United Kingdom. You are so brainwashed by your government. Believe what you want, but your people are not educated about firearms and your crime is soaring because criminals have nothing to fear.
Funny, I've lived in Switzerland 3 years, France 8 years and the UK 11 years. So brainwashed by which government? All of them, or maybe an European conspiracy. Things are getting worse in the UK it's true, but it's no because guns are not free for all.
I'm feeling like I'm talking to a caricature of a standard Fox news viewer.
Please please tell me you're a troll.
|
I don't see my self needing any at least for as long I don't live in Malmö :p
|
On February 22 2012 18:04 Xglutlewl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 17:49 Poffel wrote:On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:
While we are banning dangerous things, lets also ban cars. They are clearly designed to kill people. Lets ban skyscrapers(so people don't jump offf), busses(so depressed people don't step in front of them), motorcycles, alcohol, ciggarettes, McDonalds, bungee jumping, helicopters, knives, and swimming. Not really. A car that kills people is a badly designed car. A gun that kills people is a well designed gun. Applies to everything else in your list as well. On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:
I am a law obiding citizen and I carry a gun everywhere I go. The ignorance in this thread amazes me.
What will YOU do when you see a child is being kidnapped at the mall? Take action? Or wait 15 minutes for the police, then watch him on the news (face down in a pond and sodomized.)
What will YOU do when a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
What will YOU do when you are out driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
What will YOU do when you are a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
These are the realities that Americans deal with daily. Your Starcraft will not matter when you are placed in this situation. You DO NOT have to become a victim. You have a human right to protect yourself. I completely agree with you. If I lived in an urban combat zone, I'd want a gun, too. However, as far as my daily life is concerned, that's luckily not the case, and I'd argue that anybody who really lives in constant fear of getting raped, killed, and raped again by their neighbours might not actually be representative for a large body of the people owning a gun. So as far as I'm concerned, those aren't examples but freak cases. On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:
In my state I can legally(and yes morally) use deadly force to prevent murder, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping, and a burglary in my home at night(for the Aussie above yes the correct response is to protect your family from being killed).
There are "Free Fire Zones" all over the US showing us why GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK. The law obiding citizen such as myself, is DISARMED by a ignorant politician in these zones. The criminals don't care what the law says, and they are ARMED. Keep reading and see how that works.
Here is a list of a few free fire zones.
September 11, 2001, thousands of innocent American citizens were brutally murdered by terrorists because pilots were not permitted to carry firearms in the cockpit.
Fort Hood Massacre, 13 murdered and 29 wounded because soldiers were not armed on base.
Virginia Tech Massacre, 32 people murdered and 16 others wounded because students and faculty with concealed carry permits were disarmed on university property by the state of Virginia. Virginia Tech students to this day cannot legally protect themselves.
Columbine High School Massacre, 12 students and 1 teacher murdered, 21 other students wounded, because faculty with concealed carry permits were not allowed to carry their concealed handguns on campus.
Killeen Texas Luby's Massacre, a woman watched her parents get murdered by a gunman. She was legally required to keep her gun in her car. She has testified across the country that her parents and 23 others were murdered in that Luby's because the government disarmed her.
When your gun rights are taken away, so many other freedoms will be lost with them. We have seen this countless times throughout history. I suggest each of you join the NRA. The are the foremost organization fighting for your freedom. They have had great success fighting ignorant gun control laws in the US. Gun control has never worked, and it never will.
Even if I were to follow your logic that a gun would have been useful to prevent those crimes, they are certainly not the only solution to these problems. I'll just refer to three of your examples: The 9/11 hijacks could also have been prevented if there wasn't a door to the cockpit. That's how Israeli airplanes are designed. Bonus: "no doors" are very rarely used to kill people. Nobody here is arguing against soldiers and policemen having guns; although they are indeed a subset of "people", I think the thread is about private gun ownership. Regarding the school shootings, your example is even stranger, since those shootings are usually used as cases against the easiness to aquire guns in the US because the perpetrators were armed children. Then all cars are badly designed because they all kill people. Yes I want the best designed gun(who wouldn't). Don't understand what you're getting at there. They are not freak cases. You can go on youtube and watch hundreds of videos of armed Americans saving their lives from people trying to kill them. It happens daily, but unfortunately the media doesn't want to report on it. The police reports are there. Hindsight is 20/20, and we can't go back in time and change the design of a cockpit, nor will we, unless the manufacturers make them that way, for it is none of the governments business how a cockpit is designed. Regarding school shootings, it doesn't matter if the shooters were children or aliens, since teachers could have saved lives. Secondly the parents of the shooters should not have made those firearms accessable to children who clearly had no business with them.
That a car can kill people is commonly seen as a flaw, not as the purpose of the car. Might be different where you're living, since you'll probably have to run over some mercenaries trying to rape children some day, but I still think it's safe to assume that most people would be rather happy with a car that includes as much safety measures to prevent such a thing as possible. However, that was crystal clear from what I wrote before, so if you didn't get it then, it'll be lost on you now as well.
Hindsight isn't the matter here. That applies to your solution - give the pilots guns - as well. My case was that, even in hindsight, arming people isn't the only probable solution to the problem you listed. In fact, "no doors" works just as well, if not better.
Regarding school shootings, you're not even talking about preventive measures. You just want to turn a massacre in a shootout. Even if I were to admit that the latter is marginally better than the former, the real question at hand is how to prevent kids from getting guns in the first place. Blaming bad parenting instead of the system surely works. Arguments of misuse always do (I wrote about that before in this thread), it's just that they can be applied to everything everywhere, and that's why they are absolutely meaningless.
|
On February 22 2012 18:17 TanTzoR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 18:14 Xglutlewl wrote:On February 22 2012 18:10 TanTzoR wrote:On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:
While we are banning dangerous things, lets also ban cars. They are clearly designed to kill people. Lets ban skyscrapers(so people don't jump offf), busses(so depressed people don't step in front of them), motorcycles, alcohol, ciggarettes, McDonalds, bungee jumping, helicopters, knives, and swimming.
I am a law obiding citizen and I carry a gun everywhere I go. The ignorance in this thread amazes me.
What will YOU do when you see a child is being kidnapped at the mall? Take action? Or wait 15 minutes for the police, then watch him on the news (face down in a pond and sodomized.)
What will YOU do when a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
What will YOU do when you are out driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
What will YOU do when you are a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
These are the realities that Americans deal with daily. Your Starcraft will not matter when you are placed in this situation. You DO NOT have to become a victim. You have a human right to protect yourself.
In my state I can legally(and yes morally) use deadly force to prevent murder, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping, and a burglary in my home at night(for the Aussie above yes the correct response is to protect your family from being killed).
There are "Free Fire Zones" all over the US showing us why GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK. The law obiding citizen such as myself, is DISARMED by a ignorant politician in these zones. The criminals don't care what the law says, and they are ARMED. Keep reading and see how that works.
Here is a list of a few free fire zones.
September 11, 2001, thousands of innocent American citizens were brutally murdered by terrorists because pilots were not permitted to carry firearms in the cockpit.
Fort Hood Massacre, 13 murdered and 29 wounded because soldiers were not armed on base.
Virginia Tech Massacre, 32 people murdered and 16 others wounded because students and faculty with concealed carry permits were disarmed on university property by the state of Virginia. Virginia Tech students to this day cannot legally protect themselves.
Columbine High School Massacre, 12 students and 1 teacher murdered, 21 other students wounded, because faculty with concealed carry permits were not allowed to carry their concealed handguns on campus.
Killeen Texas Luby's Massacre, a woman watched her parents get murdered by a gunman. She was legally required to keep her gun in her car. She has testified across the country that her parents and 23 others were murdered in that Luby's because the government disarmed her.
When your gun rights are taken away, so many other freedoms will be lost with them. We have seen this countless times throughout history. I suggest each of you join the NRA. The are the foremost organization fighting for your freedom. They have had great success fighting ignorant gun control laws in the US. Gun control has never worked, and it never will.
Have you read the 40ish pages before? So you precisely said that: On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:These are the realities that Americans deal with daily.
The realities you talked about: On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote: a child is being kidnapped at the mall
a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
SO EVERY FUCKING DAY YOU DEAL WITH THAT. WE HAVE A JACK BAUER IN THE PLACE. I don't believe you are ignorant, just brainwashed. And probably never traveled. Otherwise you wouldn't say that gun control does not work. It works. It does not stop crimes, because wherever there is poverty there will be violence, but it lowers the risk of any crime to finish badly. Your Colombine example is retarded. If 2 random high school kids got weapons, it's because of the lack of gun control. Trust me they wouldn't have stabbed that many people. 95% of the gun owners live in a neighborhood were guns are not necessary for self defense. lol United Kingdom. You are so brainwashed by your government. Believe what you want, but your people are not educated about firearms and your crime is soaring because criminals have nothing to fear. Funny, I've lived in Switzerland 3 years, France 8 years and the UK 11 years. So brainwashed by which government? All of them, or maybe an European conspiracy. Things are getting worse in the UK it's true, but it's no because guns are not free for all. I'm feeling like I'm talking to a caricature of a standard Fox news viewer. Please please tell me you're a troll.
Mate I suggest you stop reading this thread honestly, there' way too many cultural differencies here. Pmuch everyone who isn't from the US says that guns should be controlled. Meanwhile the US people state that guns bring more safety and that they can also be used to start a rebellion against the government.
|
On February 22 2012 18:17 Xglutlewl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 18:10 TanTzoR wrote:On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:
While we are banning dangerous things, lets also ban cars. They are clearly designed to kill people. Lets ban skyscrapers(so people don't jump offf), busses(so depressed people don't step in front of them), motorcycles, alcohol, ciggarettes, McDonalds, bungee jumping, helicopters, knives, and swimming.
I am a law obiding citizen and I carry a gun everywhere I go. The ignorance in this thread amazes me.
What will YOU do when you see a child is being kidnapped at the mall? Take action? Or wait 15 minutes for the police, then watch him on the news (face down in a pond and sodomized.)
What will YOU do when a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
What will YOU do when you are out driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
What will YOU do when you are a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
These are the realities that Americans deal with daily. Your Starcraft will not matter when you are placed in this situation. You DO NOT have to become a victim. You have a human right to protect yourself.
In my state I can legally(and yes morally) use deadly force to prevent murder, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping, and a burglary in my home at night(for the Aussie above yes the correct response is to protect your family from being killed).
There are "Free Fire Zones" all over the US showing us why GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK. The law obiding citizen such as myself, is DISARMED by a ignorant politician in these zones. The criminals don't care what the law says, and they are ARMED. Keep reading and see how that works.
Here is a list of a few free fire zones.
September 11, 2001, thousands of innocent American citizens were brutally murdered by terrorists because pilots were not permitted to carry firearms in the cockpit.
Fort Hood Massacre, 13 murdered and 29 wounded because soldiers were not armed on base.
Virginia Tech Massacre, 32 people murdered and 16 others wounded because students and faculty with concealed carry permits were disarmed on university property by the state of Virginia. Virginia Tech students to this day cannot legally protect themselves.
Columbine High School Massacre, 12 students and 1 teacher murdered, 21 other students wounded, because faculty with concealed carry permits were not allowed to carry their concealed handguns on campus.
Killeen Texas Luby's Massacre, a woman watched her parents get murdered by a gunman. She was legally required to keep her gun in her car. She has testified across the country that her parents and 23 others were murdered in that Luby's because the government disarmed her.
When your gun rights are taken away, so many other freedoms will be lost with them. We have seen this countless times throughout history. I suggest each of you join the NRA. The are the foremost organization fighting for your freedom. They have had great success fighting ignorant gun control laws in the US. Gun control has never worked, and it never will.
Have you read the 40ish pages before? So you precisely said that: On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote:These are the realities that Americans deal with daily.
The realities you talked about: On February 22 2012 17:14 Xglutlewl wrote: a child is being kidnapped at the mall
a criminal breaks into your home, ready to kill your and your wife and children.
driving your family, a criminal sticks and gun in your face to kill all of you and take your car.
a sitting duck in a college classroom, and a criminal walks in and starts murdering your classmates one at a time.
SO EVERY FUCKING DAY YOU DEAL WITH THAT. WE HAVE A JACK BAUER IN THE PLACE. I don't believe you are ignorant, just brainwashed. And probably never traveled. Otherwise you wouldn't say that gun control does not work. It works. It does not stop crimes, because wherever there is poverty there will be violence, but it lowers the risk of any crime to finish badly. Your Colombine example is retarded. If 2 random high school kids got weapons, it's because of the lack of gun control. Trust me they wouldn't have stabbed that many people. 95% of the gun owners live in a neighborhood were guns are not necessary for self defense. You are just what I call a fearman. You watch things on the news, you fear. You watch something on youtube, you fear. Of course in some cases a gun would have helped. But you need to see on a larger scale and take some recoil from the sensationalism the news feed you with. I'm not afraid of anything. Do you buy insurance? Does buying insurance make you afraid something bad will happen? A gun is just another form of insurance.
You should really stop making analogies, because you clearly don't understand how to. By paying for insurance, people put money into a big bowl in order to pay collectively for expenses that would be hard to impossible to cover individually. Since not everybody has to face such expenses, while everybody could, this system for coping with back luck by solidarity can work.
How is anything of that even remotely similar to gun ownership?!?
|
Xglutlewl, before you generalise all of europe and claim to know what our culture and everyday lives are like, you might want to either travel or do some research. You are just completly ignorant to thre way things go in europe, we dont need or want guns here to save lives, because they dont. Guns kill people. If a gun prevents a death its only by shooting whoever was about to use his gun to make someone else dead. Do you see how removiny guns here would end up having everyone alive? I would also love to see you try to be a hero when some criminal puts his easily acquired gun to your face and demands your car. Oh wait, you wont because if you try to pull your gun you get your brains blown out.
Giving guns to everyone isnt how you should prevent crime. You should try to create a society in which noone wants or feels he has to commit a crime.
|
Tarias :
Let's say you have a wife and kids. Someone breaks into your house and murders them. Don't you wish you had a gun to defend yourself and your family?
|
On February 22 2012 18:37 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote:
Tarias :
Let's say you have a wife and kids. Someone breaks into your house and murders them. Don't you wish you had a gun to defend yourself and your family?
People don't break into your house to murder your family. They come to steal things. But then an idiot like you comes bravely with a gun. And the thief panics and shoots you and your family.
Or maybe you are part of the mafia, it makes more sense for someone to come and kill your family. If you are part of the mafia I recommend you to own a gun indeed.
The nice thing is that I know your next freak move. You are going to get me some news report of someone coming to kill a family. Because that's how to academically treat a matter.
I'm being sarcastic.
|
On February 22 2012 18:37 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote:
Tarias :
Let's say you have a wife and kids. Someone breaks into your house and murders them. Don't you wish you had a gun to defend yourself and your family?
I'm not Tarias, but I'll respond anyways. What do you hope to prove with this kind of question? That you're imaginative enough to come up with a situation where having a weapon would be preferable to being unarmed? Congratulations, you made it. Now what? Do we take turns? Let's say you are at a bar and some drunken thug starts a fight with you. Would you like him to carry a gun? Probably not. Does that change your opinion? No? How about this one: Let's say the Predator is hunting you, would you rather have a gun or be a pregnant woman? Still didn't work? Hm, maybe there's something wrong with this line of argument then.
|
On February 22 2012 18:37 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote:
Tarias :
Let's say you have a wife and kids. Someone breaks into your house and murders them. Don't you wish you had a gun to defend yourself and your family?
The statistical likelyhood of this occuring is far less than the likelyhood of someone other than myself getting a hold of the weapon and doing harm. Lets assume that I acquire the gun only for my own use in defending my family. My wife, my kids, my kids friends, or a robber; all have the potential of acquiring the weapon and whether they intend to do harm or not is irrelevant. The only way to combat this, is to lock the gun in a safe, which only you know the code to. But then you are faced with the issue of opening the safe and arming yourself. So not only do we have the extremely rare occurence of your situation, but we also have the rare occurence of the gun effectively solving the problem with less harm to your family.
Would I do everything I can to protect my family? Yes, and that is why I wouldn't have a gun. Not having a gun does a far better job at protecting my family than having one does.
|
On February 22 2012 18:37 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote:
Tarias :
Let's say you have a wife and kids. Someone breaks into your house and murders them. Don't you wish you had a gun to defend yourself and your family?
'I'd like to have a weapon in a rare hypothetical situation' does in no way translate to 'I'd like everyone to have access to guns.'
|
I completely agree with what the above posters said. That stuff just doesnt happen.
|
On February 22 2012 18:37 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote:
Tarias :
Let's say you have a wife and kids. Someone breaks into your house and murders them. Don't you wish you had a gun to defend yourself and your family?
Let's say someone shot your wife and kids. Don't you wish that person didn't have a gun?
|
Honestly, people should not be allowed to carry or own guns. Humans in general, are far to stupid to have a weapon as destructive as a gun.
But stupid people have guns so smart people should have them too.
|
On February 22 2012 14:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 14:40 ControlMonkey wrote:On February 22 2012 05:52 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote:
You would think the Germans would know most of all that you can't trust the government. Think how things might have been different for the Jews if instead of trusting in the government they armed themselves and fought back. Wait what? Your arguments are quite... well... bad. And... we... have... liftoff Godwin! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law The Holocaust analogy needs elaboration if it's to be taken seriously in this thread on owning guns, carrying guns, using guns safely, and other gunny gunny gun things. Unless, of course, you'd like to ban all people from having brown hair or being German or having moustaches, because those things are remotely related to Hitler as well.
I knew that this was going to be brought up. Germany did have gun control in the 1930's And according to wikipedia Jew's were forbidden from owning guns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany
Now, it's pretty clear that the Nazi's were in power, and they were sending Jewish residents to camps as early as 1933. There's nothing on record stating how many people tried to defend themselves from being arrested even though they must have known what was happening.
But it boils down to this.
People are here trying to take our guns away. I'm sure that most of the people against guns have never shot one in their life. They are basing their views on the news and the internet.
Yet when you're internet or video games are threatened to be banned. Or regulated, you are ready to take up arms.
What's the difference between us and you?
|
I wouldnt shoot someone over censorship of internet or video games..... I would move to another country...
|
On February 22 2012 20:46 Brethern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 14:52 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 22 2012 14:40 ControlMonkey wrote:On February 22 2012 05:52 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote:
You would think the Germans would know most of all that you can't trust the government. Think how things might have been different for the Jews if instead of trusting in the government they armed themselves and fought back. Wait what? Your arguments are quite... well... bad. And... we... have... liftoff Godwin! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law The Holocaust analogy needs elaboration if it's to be taken seriously in this thread on owning guns, carrying guns, using guns safely, and other gunny gunny gun things. Unless, of course, you'd like to ban all people from having brown hair or being German or having moustaches, because those things are remotely related to Hitler as well. I knew that this was going to be brought up. Germany did have gun control in the 1930's And according to wikipedia Jew's were forbidden from owning guns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_GermanyNow, it's pretty clear that the Nazi's were in power, and they were sending Jewish residents to camps as early as 1933. There's nothing on record stating how many people tried to defend themselves from being arrested even though they must have known what was happening.
While what you say about gun control in Germany after 1938 is true, I think you stopped your search a bit prematurely. Though the German Weapons Act was discriminating, it's more an argument against race politics than against gun regulations: Before the 1930s, everbody was forbidden to carry firearms in Germany, and the GWA was a policy that deregulated gun control.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
