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amd098
Korea (North)1366 Posts
On November 24 2011 13:30 stevarius wrote: It's washing your face with the end result of a qualification and certificate in drown-proofing yourself. poop is pretty much food too by her logic... | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On November 25 2011 10:33 bassa wrote: ok i can see how its being categorized but thats still like saying if i stole a candy bar and i stole millions of dollars as both being theft. one is a little more of a big deal than the other i would say  But both are crimes... are they not? | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
That's horrendous logic. Murdering someone and taking a $0.50 candy bar are both crimes, but both don't warrant the death penalty. | ||
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Microsloth
Canada194 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On November 25 2011 12:13 Fruscainte wrote: That's horrendous logic. Murdering someone and taking a $0.50 candy bar are both crimes, but both don't warrant the death penalty. 25 years are clearly more appropiate, he was warned after all! | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On November 25 2011 12:27 Fenrax wrote: 25 years are clearly more appropiate, he was warned after all! Oh god wat | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
Clearly he endangered the long term health of those children by denying them their vegetables. How dare he steal their pizza! | ||
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Oldboysctv
Canada58 Posts
regardless of what the student were doing wrong or right, using force lethal or now lethal should not of been used as you can clearly see that they were peaceful protestors. also they were not breaking any rules either on campus as the first night was allowed and it was in the middle of the second day. i think people need to understand how the system works, and you would be just as outraged and feeling helpless as these people. change clearly needs to happen and it will only happen when the 1% percent choose too. People need to understand that police are NOT law MAKERS just law enforcers. so saying that the police say something and if you dont do it, then they have a right to do whatever is clearly not right. thats like them saying you cant dance in public and if you do they can arrest you or use force to make you stop. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On November 24 2011 13:30 stevarius wrote: It's washing your face with the end result of a qualification and certificate in drown-proofing yourself. So, you guys are saying pepper is not a food product? I mean, listen to the very next sentence she says. She's on the side of the 'victims.' I don't even watch fox news, but if they're as bad as you want them to be, you shouldn't try so hard. | ||
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Beamer
United States242 Posts
On November 25 2011 14:19 danl9rm wrote: So, you guys are saying pepper is not a food product? I mean, listen to the very next sentence she says. She's on the side of the 'victims.' I don't even watch fox news, but if they're as bad as you want them to be, you shouldn't try so hard. Here's the quote in question: It's like a derivative of actual pepper, it's a food product, essentially. This makes it sound like Mrs. Kelly is referring to pepper spray as a food product, which it is not. What she probably meant to say is that the active ingredient in pepper spray (capsaicin) is found in chili peppers, and people do ingest this chemical. She simply went about expressing this idea in an exaggerated and distorted fashion. However, just take out those 5 words: "it's a food product essentially," and most people probably wouldn't have a problem with her report. | ||
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logikly
United States329 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:45 Bouo wrote: In all honesty, follow the law. If you want to protest or demonstrate, get the proper permits to do so. I completely understand the rising tuition costs as my schools board of trustees just voted to up our tuition 40% over the next 5 years, but if sitting in a line isn't going to fix the problem, e-mails, talking to representatives and school leaders is how its going to get fixed. I know you're stating non violent protest so allow to to explain if I may. Just because its non violent does not mean its peaceful by any means. Once they are asked to leave and refuse they are now no longer a non violent or peaceful protest. The very fact that the students formed a wall around the police officers is considered aggression towards a law enforcement officer. The police had every right to do what they did and I applaud them for holding such restraint. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
I've heard a bunch of "oh just move then physically" or "arrest them one at at time" or "just make them all get up and walk away." None of that has any realistic chance of happening. Have you ever tried to retrain and move somebody that really doesn't want to go anywhere? It's not an ezpz thing. Then, there are way too many students to move physically. Can't arrest them one at a time, thats why they linked arms. Obviously the goal is to make them get out of the way.... the question is HOW. Pepper spray is a good idea in this case because that means you don't need to go hands on or use batons. Dependant on the police department, it is generally lower then use of hands on (pressure point compliance, locks, etc which can break things if people don't want to comply), or batons on the use of force continuum. It's not harmful (maybe some people have allergies?) but it is painful and ...uncomfortable isn't quite the word i'm looking for but nothing else really fits. Uncomfortable on steriods maybe. I've been pepper sprayed and maced before... OC is worse, but it's still not able to physically break anything like a cop going hands on or using a baton can. Pepper spray being brutal? Jesus..... | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On November 21 2011 14:24 BluePanther wrote: and risk a police brutality suit? yeah right, lol..... yeah ... my sarcasm detector must be wrong. Or, you are not really smart are you ? The raise of the education in britain and in usa is really hard on students. I don't think we can blame them for doing a peaceful, non violent manifestation. Isnt it an abuse from the policemen ? (the spray) For the poster above me, pepper spray shouldnt be used from less than 15feets(?). | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10761 Posts
On November 25 2011 15:52 dogabutila wrote: One question for the people shocked and appalled at how the police handled this. What would you do instead? I've heard a bunch of "oh just move then physically" or "arrest them one at at time" or "just make them all get up and walk away." None of that has any realistic chance of happening. Have you ever tried to retrain and move somebody that really doesn't want to go anywhere? It's not an ezpz thing. Then, there are way too many students to move physically. Can't arrest them one at a time, thats why they linked arms. Obviously the goal is to make them get out of the way.... the question is HOW. Pepper spray is a good idea in this case because that means you don't need to go hands on or use batons. Dependant on the police department, it is generally lower then use of hands on (pressure point compliance, locks, etc which can break things if people don't want to comply), or batons on the use of force continuum. It's not harmful (maybe some people have allergies?) but it is painful and ...uncomfortable isn't quite the word i'm looking for but nothing else really fits. Uncomfortable on steriods maybe. I've been pepper sprayed and maced before... OC is worse, but it's still not able to physically break anything like a cop going hands on or using a baton can. Pepper spray being brutal? Jesus..... Ahm.. Moving demonstrants by "hand" is pretty "common" practise against peaceful demonstrants? I don't see why this should not have been done here or should not have been possible. Except that it was easyer and most probably more fun with the pepper spray. | ||
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
On November 25 2011 22:35 Velr wrote: Ahm.. Moving demonstrants by "hand" is pretty "common" practise against peaceful demonstrants? I don't see why this should not have been done here or should not have been possible. Except that it was easyer and most probably more fun with the pepper spray. Well with locked arms I can see how it would have been impossible to move them without the potential for permanent damage (since you need to unlock their arms... leading to possible joint/bone damage). Less possibility for permanent damage seems to come from reducing their resistance (either through pain or anesthetizing them, and I'm not sure of any anesthetization that wouldn't have a high risk of death) Pepper spray may have been the least brutal way of getting them to move. However it would have been ideal to find some other way to deal with the situation without getting them to move. Perhaps a warning before the pepper spray (or an escalating cost (ie refusal to move in the next minute= expulsion from the UC.. no refunds.. of course you still would have to move the people left to determine who gets expelled) | ||
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HunterX11
United States1048 Posts
On November 26 2011 02:03 Krikkitone wrote: Well with locked arms I can see how it would have been impossible to move them without the potential for permanent damage (since you need to unlock their arms... leading to possible joint/bone damage). Less possibility for permanent damage seems to come from reducing their resistance (either through pain or anesthetizing them, and I'm not sure of any anesthetization that wouldn't have a high risk of death) Pepper spray may have been the least brutal way of getting them to move. However it would have been ideal to find some other way to deal with the situation without getting them to move. Perhaps a warning before the pepper spray (or an escalating cost (ie refusal to move in the next minute= expulsion from the UC.. no refunds.. of course you still would have to move the people left to determine who gets expelled) Using deadly or less-than-lethal force is only permissible according to specific escalation of force policies. It is under no circumstances permissible as a compliance mechanism against non-compliant suspects who do not prevent an immediate threat to an officer or to others. This is something that all officers are told explicitly and repeatedly. They are tested on it. Please specify the immediate physical threat the protestors posed. | ||
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
Their logic baffles me. | ||
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HunterX11
United States1048 Posts
On November 26 2011 20:32 billy5000 wrote: Does UC Davis not have a campus police? I think the correct response would have been to call the campus police first. If for some reason it doesn't work, then calling in the riot force would've been the ideal thing to do. And why pepper spray? Couldn't they have handcuffed a handful of individuals and put them in a police vehicle to show others the consequences? Or something less threatening than pepper spray? Did the chief, if he's the one who issued the pepper spray, seriously not think of a scenario in which he's being asked why exactly he resorted to pepper spray - chief: oh, that's simple; since they didn't comply to our requests, we just pepper sprayed 'em. Their logic baffles me. This was the campus police, that's what's so insane about it! | ||
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