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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On November 23 2011 15:01 3clipse wrote: Waterboarding is pretty much just washing your face! It's washing your face with the end result of a qualification and certificate in drown-proofing yourself. | ||
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PrideNeverDie
United States319 Posts
On November 24 2011 13:24 Chargelot wrote: In this case, they both can be filed into the category of excessive use of force. there are more effective and legal ways to speak up. if everyone 18-24 voted, politicians would take our opinions a lot more seriously. donating to political campaigns and forming groups that will lobby politicians would definitely change politicians to listen to our needs. showing up to every public forum and voicing our opinions would definitely help our cause. the fact is that those college students wanted an instant gratification solution. they saw a potential injustice (they have to take bigger loans out) and instead of doing the hard work and fighting it through legal means they made a hasty rally. then they refused police orders because they wanted to emulate their heroes in the past and get attention and street cred from their peers and got a harsh dose of reality. overall, it was a good learning experience for them. | ||
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ikl2
United States145 Posts
This thread is infuriating. The political dimension of this sort of thing should be secondary. The fact of the matter is that your police force inflicted violence on your fellow citizens for blocking a sidewalk in a quad without any attempt to negotiate. Edit: All these kids learned is that it turns out the system really is rigged against them. That'll sure encourage them to vote. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On November 24 2011 15:49 ikl2 wrote: Seriously? 'A good learning experience'? Peaceful protest as the 'instant gratification solution'? That's the reading you're giving of this? This thread is infuriating. The political dimension of this sort of thing should be secondary. The fact of the matter is that your police force inflicted violence on your fellow citizens for blocking a sidewalk in a quad without any attempt to negotiate. Edit: All these kids learned is that it turns out the system really is rigged against them. That'll sure encourage them to vote. Why should the political dimension be secondary? Pride is completely right in that politicians take the older population more seriously because they turn out in larger numbers on election day. They should be happy that they brought the situation at hand to a national audience because that will give them more sway when it comes to voting. Displeased with the system = vote less? Then cry oppression? That doesn't sound like a plan to me. Why would politicians even try to please someone that admits they aren't going to vote? | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10823 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7925 Posts
On November 24 2011 13:38 PrideNeverDie wrote: there are more effective and legal ways to speak up. if everyone 18-24 voted, politicians would take our opinions a lot more seriously. donating to political campaigns and forming groups that will lobby politicians would definitely change politicians to listen to our needs. showing up to every public forum and voicing our opinions would definitely help our cause. the fact is that those college students wanted an instant gratification solution. they saw a potential injustice (they have to take bigger loans out) and instead of doing the hard work and fighting it through legal means they made a hasty rally. then they refused police orders because they wanted to emulate their heroes in the past and get attention and street cred from their peers and got a harsh dose of reality. overall, it was a good learning experience for them. You don't really understand politics, do you? I'll help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience further readings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Civil_Rights_Movement_(1955–1968) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_U.S._involvement_in_the_Vietnam_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X | ||
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Coramoor
Canada455 Posts
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On November 24 2011 17:19 Fontong wrote: Why should the political dimension be secondary? Pride is completely right in that politicians take the older population more seriously because they turn out in larger numbers on election day. They should be happy that they brought the situation at hand to a national audience because that will give them more sway when it comes to voting. Displeased with the system = vote less? Then cry oppression? That doesn't sound like a plan to me. Why would politicians even try to please someone that admits they aren't going to vote? There is a huge assumption in your position. Who says these protesters don't vote? Just because that demographic has a lower turnout doesn't mean that people who protest from that demographic should not be listened to. I would argue that the people most likely to vote are the one's risking their safety by attending these protests. I am sure they are the few in their age group that do attend voting rallys and push for certain candidates. Just because their peers are apathetic doesn't mean they are. How you go from protester -> don't vote is beyond me. | ||
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Treva
United States533 Posts
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1965)#First_march or this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings But if this flagrant disregard for the right to peaceful assembly is continued eventually we'll see an escalation. One nutjob in the crowd, one psycho in the police (they already have nutjobs, like Pike) and it will eventually result in casualties. In all of this where is Obama though? These are his constituents and his people and yet he hasn't spoken up against this violence. At the least he should address the protesters if only to tell them to go home but he is ignoring them. Those who think this demographic isn't important will see when the GOTV campaigns flounder for lack of volunteers and even Obama's billion+ campaign is unable to pull people to the polls. Ofcourse I could be wrong, but I know that Obama has lost atleast 1 vote and 1 volunteer for his lack of support for the democratic base. | ||
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Destro
Netherlands1206 Posts
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bassa
United States10 Posts
On November 24 2011 13:24 Chargelot wrote: In this case, they both can be filed into the category of excessive use of force. ok i can see how its being categorized but thats still like saying if i stole a candy bar and i stole millions of dollars as both being theft. one is a little more of a big deal than the other i would say  | ||
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
On November 22 2011 19:25 Turbogangsta wrote: edit: my original point wassnt about justifying it either but about how embarasing these people are dw i dont know enough about what happened Lol? Make up statistics more? From the sounds of it this was already a cheap university 5k in 2005 and 12k now going onto 22k soon.. but its ok cos theycan just find another uni or they can just borrow more money!!! | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
On November 25 2011 09:38 Probulous wrote: There is a huge assumption in your position. Who says these protesters don't vote? Just because that demographic has a lower turnout doesn't mean that people who protest from that demographic should not be listened to. I would argue that the people most likely to vote are the one's risking their safety by attending these protests. I am sure they are the few in their age group that do attend voting rallys and push for certain candidates. Just because their peers are apathetic doesn't mean they are. How you go from protester -> don't vote is beyond me. That wasn't my assumption, that was the person I quoted under the mentality of "We are being oppressed therefore we will not vote." No big deal, but you should read what people are actually responding too. I'm also sorry if I wasn't clear. | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On November 23 2011 15:01 3clipse wrote: Waterboarding is pretty much just washing your face! The sad part is, millions of people actually believe this. | ||
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sevencck
Canada704 Posts
"If you're in violation of the law, you're in violation of the law, and it warrants a response." This statement is generally correct. It is also not the logical basis for pepper spraying peaceful students like that. You don't call SWAT to handle a jaywalker. This is another (the list is long) example of what appears to be a lack of restraint or a very inappropriate response by the police. We train police to handle violent thugs and criminals and etc. so they are told to often respond with pepper spray etc. but those responses are not always the best response for the general public, and certainly not for peaceful protesters. Has nobody considered the fact that there was no immediate danger of having these kids remain sitting on the ground? What was the worst thing that could happen if they remained on the ground? It's not a ticking clock situation or a hostage situation where immediate and possibly lethal police action might be justified. It's students blocking a path. And I suppose it was the only path? Here's what you can do. Tell them they are under arrest. If they don't move, find out their identity, arrest them later, and charge them for resisting arrest. Or if for whatever reason it is critically important to move these peaceful students immediately, then do what Micronesia said and be smart about it. Frankly, this notion that any resistance to police should be met with brutality whether said opposition is with a gun, a knife, or sitting students is ridiculous. It's overly absolutist and doesn't really work very well in a real society with real people. In my opinion, the greatest attribute of the police should be good judgement, not impulsive violence. When did we decide it was reasonable to meet peaceful expression with violent expression? Let me finish by adding that the long-term toxicity of pepper spray is still being studied. | ||
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Railxp
Hong Kong1313 Posts
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TKHawkins
United States103 Posts
Tell your ultra conservative/ultra liberal friends who haven't heard of this yet that these people were protesting the Obama Administration. Then show them this video. See the ultra conservatives be outraged and the ultra liberals find nothing wrong with it. Then tell them the truth. If their opinion about the pepper spraying flip flops after you tell them, then they have no idea what this issue is really about. This is about the appropriate level of force to apply to put down a bunch of unarmed, peaceful protesters. The public outrage/debate should have nothing to do with why they were protesting. | ||
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Count9
China10928 Posts
Though it could have been problematic with the amount of people there if they tried to forcefully drag someone from the group if they were interlocking arms and someone could have become violent if they saw one of their friends getting put face down on the ground and try to pull officers off his friend. I guess I have less of a problem with this, if you have a protest and do it in an illegal place, when the police come don't resist arrest or be prepared to face consequences. Go to jail and let that be your story. | ||
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Noro
Canada991 Posts
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