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i haven't read much replys in this thread but i definitely believe it's circumstantial based on the knowledge of each drug.
for example adderall known as the study drug. in this day and age, the rising standard of what you have to know and how much you have to study is almost 10x the amount of information compared to the 80's or 90's. and there's a definitive statistic that we have to work harder to secure a job than we ever had before in life and hence some would even consider unnatural and would force many students at the highest competing level to go to these things. for me i do not judge someone using addy a drug user or see it in a negative light. just a reaction to the increasing standard since you still do have to study.
marijuana is another circumstantial one because most people just don't understand there is little to no damage. but the thing is most argument for it is lack of facts on both sides. it's not "its' no damage to your brain" it's no damage to your brain if you use it late in life. having a adolescent use marijuana will definitely harm them permanently in the ability to memorize and retain information. while i do say there are more positives for marijuana than negatives that can do for society. while i still do look at marijuana users negatively since there is definite potential for abuse like giving marijuana to minors and the fact someone can be high out of their mind while driving risking other's lives due to weed brownies or cookies. a person who does not have tolerance to mj will definitely suffer chopped vision time distortion and other such things and it WILL affect the ability to drive and operate machinery.
steroids. obviously this is another circumstantial one. this really doesn't impair someone psychologically unless you consider roid rage doing that. but most people who use roids still have to work out hard, eat very clean etc. there is no benefit of it unless you workout and have a proper diet. the negative argument against it is it's potential for abuse, so it's definitely dangerous when minors can get their hands on it and most body builders these days abuse it way more than even professional athletes.
most of the arguments are based on people's definition of wrong or right by a morale set by the government which is flawed. the real argument should always come down to the fact if the so called drug is 1. impairs the user psychologically or physically and thus affecting the public (driving is most common) 2. making it legal endangers minors
there is an impossible line between this though since there are many things legal which harm minors/users anyway.
but to sum up my general point, i do believe prejudice against drug users is justified IF it's based on the understanding of the drug the person uses.
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On October 17 2011 15:54 AutomatonOmega wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 15:46 SpaceToaster wrote:On October 17 2011 15:39 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 17 2011 15:37 Meta wrote: It is prejudice in some circumstances, such as when a person's drug use is controlled and does not negatively effect the user in any way. In general, blanket statements like "illegal drug users have decreased mental/thought capacity" is unfair. Some drug users have low mental/thought capacity, but the same could be said for people who don't use drugs and vice versa.
I think the prejudice against illegal drug use is a social construct used to control people's freedoms. It's generally held by people who have never even tried drugs, or people who have tried them but were bad at using them. There's no reason for a few bad apples who can't handle drug intake to remove other people's basic human right of control over your own body.
I feel like the argument from the other side is based on emotion, when someone's friend overdosed or alcoholic/drug addicted family member has their personality drained by the positive and negative effects of the drugs. Well guess what, I also had a friend once who got heavily addicted to (non-illegal) drugs to the point that it almost ruined his life before he finally got sober, in fact if he didn't get sober when he did he might have died. That sucked, but the fact of the matter is, people who are bad at doing drugs shouldn't do them. If they do them and get addicted, it should be up to them and/or their family to get official medical treatment for their addiction. The law shouldn't have any say in the matter. What about people that have lived and worked with drug/alcohol addicts their entire lives, watching their friends and loved ones flounder at life for year after year, making little compromises here and there in every other facet of their life to fit those chemicals in? I think what he is trying to argue is that you should look at each situation individually rather than having a blanket prejudice. I've lived with, worked with, and been friends and enemies with stoners my entire adult life. I've seen the consistent long-term ill effects of prolonged addicted marijuana abuse. So much unrealized potential.And those of you out there saying that (anecdotally) you know of someone who realized great potential while being on weed, you never saw what they were capable off of weed to know the difference. Just imagine the possibilities of sobriety! That accomplished doctor/lawyer/surgeon/etc. that you know who sparks up a doob every night before bedtime is the exception. That's like pointing to the (again, anecdotal) story of the old lady that smoked cigarettes and drank alcohol and lived to be 97 years old as somehow being evidence that that shit isn't as bad for you as everyone says it is. You're deluding yourself if you think that's the case.
I really hope that you can spot the hypocrisy in your post. Unfortunately, scientific studies and research are the only things which can conclusively prove marijuana to be anything. And no, I will not look up 'Dr. Drew'. You look him/her up and then give us the link.
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On October 17 2011 15:58 mbr2321 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 15:08 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:44 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:40 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:39 Chargelot wrote:On October 17 2011 12:34 Romance_us wrote:On October 17 2011 12:29 Greentellon wrote: I know a person who is heavily alcoholic. Alcohol has been compared several times to the mildest of drugs and I have seen from front row how acholos has ruined his brain and life. Perhaps it's not all alcohols fault, but every time I see him wasted, stumbling around there unable to make a coherent thought, I pity him. I can't feel anything but pity towards him.
If I hear you mention drugs I may forgive you if you don't push the issue further, but if you keep at it or you actually whip some out, I will call the cops on the spot. Oh well, maybe I will leave the room/house first. Is that prejudice? No, it's me being smart. If you want to ruin your brain and health, go ahead. But don't drag me into your insanity. Dude, it's you being smart? HAHAHAHA. No. It's you having an irrational (and impulsive) reaction based on complete ignorance. That's quite humorous though I mean just to think you'd call the cops on somebody and negatively affect their life for a personal choice they made that does not directly nor indirectly affect yours just seems a little crazy In America, illegal drugs are illegal. It's insane, I know. But if you flaunt your drug use, you're probably going to jail, one way or another. Sorry that you don't like that. But that's the way it works. Something about crimes being prosecutable in the court of law. who said anything about morals being related to laws? please go away In America, when people break the law, we have this thing we do which we refer to as "calling the police". Equally as insane as my former post. Anyways, the police are readily available, and will report to the location you give them in very little time. They then proceed to arrest the criminals. Is it stupid to call the police when someone is throwing their drug use in your face? Maybe on your island. But here, we call that normal. who said anything about morals being related to laws? please go away also your attempt to condescend while simultaneously being unintelligent is amusing Laws are founded on basic moral principals. These principals focused on the smooth running of a coherent and thoughtful society. Cocaine was enforceably outlawed in 1970 in the United States because the government realized it had dangerously addictive properties, extreme health risks, and posed a real danger to society. Murder is illegal because it is immoral by all modern, standard principles-- as is robbery, driving while intoxicated, rape, and so many other despicable, detestable things. Basically, what I'm saying, in so many words, is that you are completely misguided, misinformed, or generally ignorant while you attempt to disassociate laws and morals. please go away
Laws are founded in morals, but not necessarily the morals of each individual held accountable to the law. In a discussion such as this one laws and morality should be kept separate, as we are discussing our personal morality and prejudices rather than the morality of the lawmakers.
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On October 17 2011 15:52 LAN-f34r wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 15:48 Synwave wrote:On October 17 2011 15:46 LAN-f34r wrote: People who you buy drugs from are quite like to commit other crimes (gangs can have an impressive armory O.o) Medical bills if you end up ill because of the drug use (or drug use causes an accident ie drunk driving) Second hand smoke Emotions of those close to you (How would your mother feel about you hurting yourself?) Loss of your own productivity ect
Victim-less crime? Please look up the definition of victim. It doesn't mean someone isn't hurt by your actions, it means someone isn't victimized by your actions. Then victim-less crimes can still be hurting people? Why are they different from any other crime then, such that drugs should be allowed or accepted or whatever you want to call it? Im not sure you understand basic english. I never said anything about crime. I was saying that someone being hurt does not equal victimizing. There is in fact a difference between the terms and they shouldn't be used interchangeably because they are not the same words.
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On October 17 2011 16:05 Swede wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 15:54 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 17 2011 15:46 SpaceToaster wrote:On October 17 2011 15:39 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 17 2011 15:37 Meta wrote: It is prejudice in some circumstances, such as when a person's drug use is controlled and does not negatively effect the user in any way. In general, blanket statements like "illegal drug users have decreased mental/thought capacity" is unfair. Some drug users have low mental/thought capacity, but the same could be said for people who don't use drugs and vice versa.
I think the prejudice against illegal drug use is a social construct used to control people's freedoms. It's generally held by people who have never even tried drugs, or people who have tried them but were bad at using them. There's no reason for a few bad apples who can't handle drug intake to remove other people's basic human right of control over your own body.
I feel like the argument from the other side is based on emotion, when someone's friend overdosed or alcoholic/drug addicted family member has their personality drained by the positive and negative effects of the drugs. Well guess what, I also had a friend once who got heavily addicted to (non-illegal) drugs to the point that it almost ruined his life before he finally got sober, in fact if he didn't get sober when he did he might have died. That sucked, but the fact of the matter is, people who are bad at doing drugs shouldn't do them. If they do them and get addicted, it should be up to them and/or their family to get official medical treatment for their addiction. The law shouldn't have any say in the matter. What about people that have lived and worked with drug/alcohol addicts their entire lives, watching their friends and loved ones flounder at life for year after year, making little compromises here and there in every other facet of their life to fit those chemicals in? I think what he is trying to argue is that you should look at each situation individually rather than having a blanket prejudice. I've lived with, worked with, and been friends and enemies with stoners my entire adult life. I've seen the consistent long-term ill effects of prolonged addicted marijuana abuse. So much unrealized potential.And those of you out there saying that (anecdotally) you know of someone who realized great potential while being on weed, you never saw what they were capable off of weed to know the difference. Just imagine the possibilities of sobriety! That accomplished doctor/lawyer/surgeon/etc. that you know who sparks up a doob every night before bedtime is the exception. That's like pointing to the (again, anecdotal) story of the old lady that smoked cigarettes and drank alcohol and lived to be 97 years old as somehow being evidence that that shit isn't as bad for you as everyone says it is. You're deluding yourself if you think that's the case. I really hope that you can spot the hypocrisy in your post. Unfortunately, scientific studies and research are the only things which can conclusively prove marijuana to be anything. And no, I will not look up 'Dr. Drew'. You look him/her up and then give us the link.
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=54633
There's a little there, I'll c/p the parts concerning cannabis:
+ Show Spoiler +Member question: I have smoked pot for a number of years as an antistressor. Currently I'm having thick sinus congestion and very bad headaches and sore throat. I also have ulcerative colitis. What treatments can help me regain my health as I am very tired and in a lot of discomfort? I want to quit the smoke altogether. Dr. Drew: You no longer use marijuana as a stress reducer. You are an addict and this addiction will not stop without treatment. I would suggest you look into Marijuana Anonymous. You need careful supervision when you stop this drug. There is an extraordinarily high incident of suicide in the first six months of marijuana abstinence.
The syndrome of marijuana addiction is always the same: A profound euphoria is experienced, usually after the second or third exposure to it, and from that moment on the addict pursues, preoccupies, or uses that drug every day. Somewhere down the line, exactly what you are experiencing develops; the addict gets depressed, has trouble sleeping and being motivated. Of course, the addict's response is to smoke more or better pot to deal with "the stress," which only accelerates the decline into depression. Spoilered it for you.
The whole Q&A interview linked above is actually pretty informative not so much about weed but about addiction itself as a disease, great read.
Edit: Article on Marijuana related suicidal tendencies: http://www.elementsbehavioralhealth.com/addiction/marijuana-dependency-linked-to-depression-suicidal-thoughts/
Weed dependence article: http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/addiction-types/drug-addiction/marijuana-abuse.htm
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I smoke weed erryday, am in college, love my mother who loves me too, and have plenty of friends that do and don't smoke weed.
The question at hand though is too vague to really answer the way he wants me to.
Will I think less of a person if I find they are a meth head/shooting up fucking heroin/wasting away on coke/smoking crack/Abusing cough medication.....there are too many to list.
If you're doing any more than smoking bud and using hallucinogenics (and with those, shrooms and acid only please, and try to keep it infrequent....loses a little magic, and really it's just better overall to only do it once every 3 to 6 months to a year.) I will lose respect for you. I have a very deep seeded hatred for alcohol, but I have seen people use it without ruining themselves so I really think that's just a personal self control issue, and less to do with the drug itself. But ya, alcoholics.....I don't care for one bit.
But really people...just because I light a plant on fire in the privacy of my own room doesn't mean jack shit.
I can't "fuck my brain up" on weed. I've smoked STUPID amounts of marijuana and I've been 100% in control of my thoughts and actions. I guess I just don't understand what people mean when they talk about people being utterly "wasted" (as in too drunk to walk straight or say a full sentence, which DOES happen) off of just weed. It's just not a part of my experience.
BTW, just to clear things up. Been smoking every day for over 4 years, have had a steady job over that entire time, currently attending one of the BEST hard science schools in the WORLD, I love to read, I love going outside on hikes through the desert rock, I've been at national level competition for debate, and did nearly all my reseach stoned. I smoked weed during school in highschool, and all the teachers LOVED me, and thought I was a wonderful nice respectful boy.
I'm a pretty damn awesome person, and I fucking love weed.
EDIT: just read the post above me....and I can say with 100% truth that it is complete and total bullshit. Seriously, I wouldn't put it past anti drug causes to put that shit on the internet as propaganda. "weed addiction"? Don't make me fucking laugh. Weed has no physical addiction. It's as addictive as FOOD is. You see all those fat people out there that can't control their eating habits? That's the same as a person who is "addicted" to weed. And that's not even talking about the bullshit "suicide rate" from quitting weed. It honestly just makes me laugh anybody with a brain would actually believe that bullshit.
Seriously people. My brain works as well or better than.
EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. YOU.
And I smoke hella bud. I have a better memory than just about all of the people I know that don't smoke weed, long term and short.
So really....if you think that the "dr drew" shit is worth a damn, and should be taken as good true information...than I just have to see you as the kind of person that would be for outlawing food that's bad for you.
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TL;DR + direct on-topic answer: Do I feel prejudiced against? It's hard to be so selfish!
Did you know Islam explicitly outlaws alcohol, but says nothing of Cannabis, and it's resin, Hashish? Have you heard of the Opium Wars, where Britain forced opium (unrefined herion/morphene) trade on China, ? Maybe you've heard of refined Sugar, which was so rare in Medieval Europe, it was a medicine for higher classes. Guess what slaves were 90% used for in the Carribean. Or maybe you've read the story of Adam and Eve the first drug bust.
Drugs DRUGS D R U G S... I like the distinction between soft drugs, hard drugs and prescription drugs in the Netherlands. The line is of course arbitrary, because who decides what´s an acceptable risk and what isn´t?
Every culture glorifies a certain drug nearby as reference state, and demonizes others. It's been done over and over, and it has nothing to do with the physical effects. In fact, it's effects are so strong, users commonly don't experience the real drug, but the cultural description of the drug. For instance, alcohol doesn't make you loose, irresponsible, loud and horny. People who act like that are just looking for excuses, and culture gives them what they want, so long as they consume alcohol. Venues for these people are created, because they make a profit. Meanwhile others are enjoying their wine, spirits in whatever means and circumstance they deem fit. If people are given an incentive to behave, they can drink all they want, they won't get violent or obnoxious.
Notice the warning label commonly applied against drinking alone. Leads to addiction. I'll say to that, depression, self-medication and self-conditioning lead to addicition. But normal neuroses are hard enough to iron out on your own without impaired thinking. Many fail to become real alcoholics. Maybe you're lucky enough to know a true alcoholic, but you might never know until they lose their job, their girlfriend, or their health. Then suddenly shit hits the fan, and it more easy to blame the bottle than you having somewhat of a dickish personality. And as alcohol DOES desensitize people to external impulses, DOES slow reaction time and in large quantities, DOES damage vital organs, we can comfortably say alcoholics are stupid.
+ Show Spoiler + Naom Chomsky on Marijuana
Nobody fully understands the effect a drug has on their brain if the only time they use them is in a social situation where conformism is expected. A few million years of social evolution has seen to that. Mirror neurons, empathy and advertising, they distort the effect of these substances in the brain. I'm not saying these are bad things, in case you're wondering.
I can't say the same for weed because its effects on different people have been studied little or funded by groups with special interests. I do know some people who use weed as an excuse not to think. I know people who use weed to think better. I know people who just want to sit and stare at the TV on weed, and I know people who paint, write and create on weed.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JVOHgCFd-Q
Carl Sagan was a published astronomer, documentary filmmaker, awesome dude and smoker http://www.druglibrary.org/think/~jnr/sagan.htm Go watch his Cosmos series.
As far as I can tell from my narrow point of view, weed removes some selective processes from cognitive functioning. Makes sense it `fucks you up` if your following activity is selecting the proper function, the right strategy, the outcome of a logical equation, or any highly trained skill. You´ll have so much more data to deal with, if you´re not prepared, you´ll get overloaded. And lot´s of people do.
Some freak out and get paranoid. Some have no other way to cope than to wallow in it all. Some start believing this is the "better" or "true" way of seeing, without any discrimination or rational thoughts at all. But is this the drug, or do these people react the same way new information is presented, they meet a new person or try a new game?
http://suburra.com/blog/2011/10/05/addictive-personality/ On all the indications of addiction. All blog posts there are essential info
Taking soft drugs is a skill, like any other. It requires a reflective mind and a good memory or recording skills like writing, speaking or video. If I set policy I wouldn't let just anyone operate them, same as I wouldn't let just anyone operate heavy machinery, drive a car or program a computer.
Tips: The important thing is thinking about thinking and perception. Think high about how you normally think, and think normally about how you think when high. Self restraint and moderation still apply. Know the rules before you break them. Respect the substance, it's as much judging you as you are it. Read some books, do some research, talk to your more sane friends and then go for it.
Oh, and when you get so high you actually think you can fly, some advice: Try it from the ground, not from 10 stories high. Jumping out of windows to test such things is stupid. On the other hand, if you're that stupid, maybe you were bound to be selected out of the gene pool.
On October 17 2011 15:46 LAN-f34r wrote: People who you buy drugs from are quite like to commit other crimes (gangs can have an impressive armory O.o) Medical bills if you end up ill because of the drug use (or drug use causes an accident ie drunk driving) Second hand smoke Emotions of those close to you (How would your mother feel about you hurting yourself?) Loss of your own productivity ect
Victim-less crime?
Nobody is going to buy guns if their business is protected by the law. Right now, it isn't. Even in the Netherlands, if your plantation gets robbed and they steal your weed, you're fucked. Nobody is going to a hospital from one time use, unless you're the kind of person who takes first time swimming lessons in the ocean. The effects of second hand smoke are real. They are comparable to living in proximity to a highway, or a smoggy city. We don't disallow highways or smoggy cities. I don't know about your mother, but if she doesn't allow you to make mistakes, she doesn't allow you to live. If you lose productive capabilities, you should evaluate your use. But maybe you've realized there's more to life than production.
If you claim a drug user has no moral responsibilities, no self consciousness and no self determination, you've just dehumanized them, and you can do whatever you want with them, because they are no more than animals. But how can a substance temporarily active in the brain subtract from such things? It only adds in my opinion.
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On October 17 2011 16:26 N3rV[Green] wrote: I smoke weed erryday, am in college, love my mother who loves me too, and have plenty of friends that do and don't smoke weed.
The question at hand though is too vague to really answer the way he wants me to.
Will I think less of a person if I find they are a meth head/shooting up fucking heroin/wasting away on coke/smoking crack/Abusing cough medication.....there are too many to list.
If you're doing any more than smoking bud and using hallucinogenics (and with those, shrooms and acid only please, and try to keep it infrequent....loses a little magic, and really it's just better overall to only do it once every 3 to 6 months to a year.) I will lose respect for you. I have a very deep seeded hatred for alcohol, but I have seen people use it without ruining themselves so I really think that's just a personal self control issue, and less to do with the drug itself. But ya, alcoholics.....I don't care for one bit.
But really people...just because I light a plant on fire in the privacy of my own room doesn't mean jack shit.
I can't "fuck my brain up" on weed. I've smoked STUPID amounts of marijuana and I've been 100% in control of my thoughts and actions. I guess I just don't understand what people mean when they talk about people being utterly "wasted" (as in too drunk to walk straight or say a full sentence, which DOES happen) off of just weed. It's just not a part of my experience.
BTW, just to clear things up. Been smoking every day for over 4 years, have had a steady job over that entire time, currently attending one of the BEST hard science schools in the WORLD, I love to read, I love going outside on hikes through the desert rock, I've been at national level competition for debate, and did nearly all my reseach stoned. I smoked weed during school in highschool, and all the teachers LOVED me, and thought I was a wonderful nice respectful boy.
I'm a pretty damn awesome person, and I fucking love weed.
If what you say is true, you're not a poster child for weed abuse in any event. You'd be in the extreeeeeeeme minority, and your experience is in no way normal.
Also, there's no evidence that weed actually helped you accomplish these things. Since you never did them off of weed, you have no idea how much more you could've accomplished without it.
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I have very little prejudice against people using drugs, unless I can actively see them having no self-control and fucking up their lives because of it. The people I know for instance who smoke marijuana (about half probs, in various amounts) are doing all right for themselves, are fun to hang around with and vibe really well socially. So it's no big deal when someone I know uses drugs.
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On October 17 2011 16:26 N3rV[Green] wrote: I smoke weed erryday, am in college, love my mother who loves me too, and have plenty of friends that do and don't smoke weed.
The question at hand though is too vague to really answer the way he wants me to.
Will I think less of a person if I find they are a meth head/shooting up fucking heroin/wasting away on coke/smoking crack/Abusing cough medication.....there are too many to list.
If you're doing any more than smoking bud and using hallucinogenics (and with those, shrooms and acid only please, and try to keep it infrequent....loses a little magic, and really it's just better overall to only do it once every 3 to 6 months to a year.) I will lose respect for you. I have a very deep seeded hatred for alcohol, but I have seen people use it without ruining themselves so I really think that's just a personal self control issue, and less to do with the drug itself. But ya, alcoholics.....I don't care for one bit.
But really people...just because I light a plant on fire in the privacy of my own room doesn't mean jack shit.
I can't "fuck my brain up" on weed. I've smoked STUPID amounts of marijuana and I've been 100% in control of my thoughts and actions. I guess I just don't understand what people mean when they talk about people being utterly "wasted" (as in too drunk to walk straight or say a full sentence, which DOES happen) off of just weed. It's just not a part of my experience.
BTW, just to clear things up. Been smoking every day for over 4 years, have had a steady job over that entire time, currently attending one of the BEST hard science schools in the WORLD, I love to read, I love going outside on hikes through the desert rock, I've been at national level competition for debate, and did nearly all my reseach stoned. I smoked weed during school in highschool, and all the teachers LOVED me, and thought I was a wonderful nice respectful boy.
I'm a pretty damn awesome person, and I fucking love weed.
there's nothing wrong when it comes to the argument of "well it's my body i do whatever i want" and i completely agree with you. there's nothing wrong with you blazing one in your house
the argument falls flat when 1. people light one, before attending school or work and has to drive impairing their ability to operate a vehicle. this is why dui's are so harsh. 2. minors have access to weed and it has been PROVEN to harm children who don't have their brains fully developed permanently. 3. introducing a minor to something illegally has definitely been proven that it's a gateway to obtain more substances or "try" harder things than weed.
do you see how this can affect other people besides you? its all good and everything if you're in your house doing it alone but when you go out in public and you're beyond your tolerance the control you have over yourself is questionable especially on a individual by individual basis.
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I am prejudiced against people who use drugs which are more illegal than marijuana, and people who abuse any drug to the detriment of his/her social, academic, and employment functionings.
I am also somewhat prejudiced against people who don't use alcohol at all for none-religious reasons, but that's quite a different matter
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On October 17 2011 16:03 ArizonaBay wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 15:54 Setev wrote:On October 17 2011 11:32 VPCursed wrote: I wouldn't want to be around someone who felt uncomfortable with others who used recreational drugs. Not because I find their prejudice misguided but because id find them to be a tad moronic. Also, there is a difference between drug user and drug abuser. Well, if those people who used recreational drugs have great personalities and are good friends, then I'll be fine to hang out with them WHEN THEY ARE SOBER. But when they start using those drugs in my presence, then I'll ask them to shove it or do it somewhere else. Anyway, I find it weird that you find people who are uncomfortable with others who used recreational drugs "a tad moronic". Why is that? Its perfectly understandable that people want to stay away from smokers when they are puffing away on regular cigarettes or pot or weed or heroine etc. Don't want to get poisoned by all those carcinogens. You said that there is a difference between drug use and drug abuse. Well, hate to break it to you but recreational drug use is drug abuse. Try and prove me wrong by quoting some medical study or case file. You think its "COOL" to use drugs? Well, I find that concept truly moronic. Nowhere did he say it was COOL to use drugs. There is absolutely a difference between drug use and drug abuse, you throwing recreational into the mix as if it suddenly devalues the person doing it is exactly the stigma he's essentially calling moronic. If you can conclude that there is acceptable drug use, and you can, assuming you've ever taken medication for anything ever, it is not equal to drug abuse. Whether it's RECREATIONAL or not shouldn't be a factor. Are you going to so far as to say, a person prescribed xanax for anxiety and uses it on a regular basis is a perfectly legitimate and upstanding citizen, while someone that has taken xanax ONCE outside of having a prescription is a drug abuser? Even though the latter is significantly healthier than the former? I'd find it extremely difficult as to how that holds up to the scrutiny of an intelligent individual.
No, the "cool to use drugs concept is moronic" is my opinion, not VPCursed's opinion, and I'm just saying it.
As for the person who used xanax ONCE outside of prescription, then its not considered drug abuse, as he did not use it frequently, and he did not interfere with the lives of those around him and himself.
Xanax is a depressant, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a Xanax abuser when he is high (effects are just like alcohol) on it, even though he may be my best friend when he is sober.
There is absolutely a difference between drug use and drug abuse, you throwing recreational into the mix as if it suddenly devalues the person doing it is exactly the stigma he's essentially calling moronic.
Someone pointed out to me that drinking coffee/Red Bull is consuming caffeine, hence a form of drug use. After that, I think that recreational drug use do have a difference from drug abuse after all, provided you are not addicted to coffee and only takes a few cups (2 or 3?) per day. I think the term "recreational drug use" should be changed to "responsible drug use" to avoid confusion.
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I don't think light drugs should be in the same pot as hard drugs. I mean if someone tells me he's smoking marijuana or hashish i wouldn't care (maybe unless he's smoking everyday and is addicted) but if someone tells me he's on heroin that does affect my opinion of him negatively a lot (my friend's cousin was heroin addicted... is damn awful).
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On October 17 2011 16:32 saocyn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 16:26 N3rV[Green] wrote: I smoke weed erryday, am in college, love my mother who loves me too, and have plenty of friends that do and don't smoke weed.
The question at hand though is too vague to really answer the way he wants me to.
Will I think less of a person if I find they are a meth head/shooting up fucking heroin/wasting away on coke/smoking crack/Abusing cough medication.....there are too many to list.
If you're doing any more than smoking bud and using hallucinogenics (and with those, shrooms and acid only please, and try to keep it infrequent....loses a little magic, and really it's just better overall to only do it once every 3 to 6 months to a year.) I will lose respect for you. I have a very deep seeded hatred for alcohol, but I have seen people use it without ruining themselves so I really think that's just a personal self control issue, and less to do with the drug itself. But ya, alcoholics.....I don't care for one bit.
But really people...just because I light a plant on fire in the privacy of my own room doesn't mean jack shit.
I can't "fuck my brain up" on weed. I've smoked STUPID amounts of marijuana and I've been 100% in control of my thoughts and actions. I guess I just don't understand what people mean when they talk about people being utterly "wasted" (as in too drunk to walk straight or say a full sentence, which DOES happen) off of just weed. It's just not a part of my experience.
BTW, just to clear things up. Been smoking every day for over 4 years, have had a steady job over that entire time, currently attending one of the BEST hard science schools in the WORLD, I love to read, I love going outside on hikes through the desert rock, I've been at national level competition for debate, and did nearly all my reseach stoned. I smoked weed during school in highschool, and all the teachers LOVED me, and thought I was a wonderful nice respectful boy.
I'm a pretty damn awesome person, and I fucking love weed. there's nothing wrong when it comes to the argument of "well it's my body i do whatever i want" and i completely agree with you. there's nothing wrong with you blazing one in your house the argument falls flat when 1. people light one, before attending school or work and has to drive impairing their ability to operate a vehicle. this is why dui's are so harsh. 2. minors have access to weed and it has been PROVEN to harm children who don't have their brains fully developed permanently. 3. introducing a minor to something illegally has definitely been proven that it's a gateway to obtain more substances or "try" harder things than weed. do you see how this can affect other people besides you? its all good and everything if you're in your house doing it alone but when you go out in public and you're beyond your tolerance the control you have over yourself is questionable especially on a individual by individual basis.
The "you can't drive while stoned" myth is just that, a myth. I've driven stoned which I do as well as I do sober (if not better, since I DON'T go over the speed limit EVER when I drive baked) and the same is true for EVERY SINGLE PERSON that I've ever driven with. Hell it was a common nightly event to go drive down the backroads and smoke a few bowls. I still want to understand where people get these "facts" from and if they are from direct experience.
Direct experience is honestly the only true way to know something.
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On October 17 2011 16:34 Mobius_1 wrote:I am prejudiced against people who use drugs which are more illegal than marijuana, and people who abuse any drug to the detriment of his/her social, academic, and employment functionings. I am also somewhat prejudiced against people who don't use alcohol at all for none-religious reasons, but that's quite a different matter 
i'm prejudiced against people who have 0 clue about the actual facts based on drugs even more so on people who base their moral on rules set by the government. just an fyi, not everything you consider a "drug" is detriment to social, academic or employment functioning. this is coming from a person who doesn't use any "drugs" the definition should honestly be re-written about what a drug is since it falls more along the lines of psychologically or physically manipulating one's chemistry and if that poses potential harm to other people.
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Well, imo it really depends on what drug it is. Alcohol is a drug too, you know. What im saying is, it wouldnt affect my opinion if someone told me they've tried marijuana once. But i'd probably never hang out with some hardcore meth smoker.
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wtf? People can drink and smoke pot and still function in society, Holland is proof of this :#
If the poll mentioned drug ABUSE, then I'd say no as well but right now I am dissapointed in tl. You should know better.
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On October 17 2011 16:26 N3rV[Green] wrote: EDIT: just read the post above me....and I can say with 100% truth that it is complete and total bullshit. Seriously, I wouldn't put it past anti drug causes to put that shit on the internet as propaganda. "weed addiction"? Don't make me fucking laugh. Weed has no physical addiction. It's as addictive as FOOD is. You see all those fat people out there that can't control their eating habits? That's the same as a person who is "addicted" to weed. And that's not even talking about the bullshit "suicide rate" from quitting weed. It honestly just makes me laugh anybody with a brain would actually believe that bullshit.
Seriously people. My brain works as well or better than.
EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. YOU.
And I smoke hella bud. I have a better memory than just about all of the people I know that don't smoke weed, long term and short.
So really....if you think that the "dr drew" shit is worth a damn, and should be taken as good true information...than I just have to see you as the kind of person that would be for outlawing food that's bad for you.
Has it occurred to you that you don't possess the genetic addiction trigger? Or that you might be some kind of THC resistant mutant?
Not being facetious at all.
Edit: The age you start smoking is important, too. You're 23 now, right? You've smoked 'over 4 years', that means you were what, 18 when you started?
How many people do you know just like you that started smoking weed at the usual age?
Usual age being:
The national average age for first use of marijuana by persons who initiated use in 1995 to 1997 at age 25 or younger was 16.2 years (Table C.5). The average age at first use of marijuana ranged from a low of 15.1 years in Montana and Nevada to 17.1 years in Maine, a range of 2.0 years. Four of the States that fell into the highest quintile for past month rates of use of marijuana among youths had lower than average ages at time of first use of marijuana: Montana (15.1 years), Nevada (15.1 years), Minnesota (15.6 years), and Washington (15.8 years). Three of the States in the lowest quintile of past month prevalence also had a higher than average age at first use: Iowa and Tennessee (16.9 years) and Idaho (16.7 years). Some of the confidence intervals for the State average age at time of first use of marijuana were quite large (anywhere from 0.6 to 3.7 years depending on the State); therefore, the estimates should be used with caution.
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On October 17 2011 16:39 N3rV[Green] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 16:32 saocyn wrote:On October 17 2011 16:26 N3rV[Green] wrote: I smoke weed erryday, am in college, love my mother who loves me too, and have plenty of friends that do and don't smoke weed.
The question at hand though is too vague to really answer the way he wants me to.
Will I think less of a person if I find they are a meth head/shooting up fucking heroin/wasting away on coke/smoking crack/Abusing cough medication.....there are too many to list.
If you're doing any more than smoking bud and using hallucinogenics (and with those, shrooms and acid only please, and try to keep it infrequent....loses a little magic, and really it's just better overall to only do it once every 3 to 6 months to a year.) I will lose respect for you. I have a very deep seeded hatred for alcohol, but I have seen people use it without ruining themselves so I really think that's just a personal self control issue, and less to do with the drug itself. But ya, alcoholics.....I don't care for one bit.
But really people...just because I light a plant on fire in the privacy of my own room doesn't mean jack shit.
I can't "fuck my brain up" on weed. I've smoked STUPID amounts of marijuana and I've been 100% in control of my thoughts and actions. I guess I just don't understand what people mean when they talk about people being utterly "wasted" (as in too drunk to walk straight or say a full sentence, which DOES happen) off of just weed. It's just not a part of my experience.
BTW, just to clear things up. Been smoking every day for over 4 years, have had a steady job over that entire time, currently attending one of the BEST hard science schools in the WORLD, I love to read, I love going outside on hikes through the desert rock, I've been at national level competition for debate, and did nearly all my reseach stoned. I smoked weed during school in highschool, and all the teachers LOVED me, and thought I was a wonderful nice respectful boy.
I'm a pretty damn awesome person, and I fucking love weed. there's nothing wrong when it comes to the argument of "well it's my body i do whatever i want" and i completely agree with you. there's nothing wrong with you blazing one in your house the argument falls flat when 1. people light one, before attending school or work and has to drive impairing their ability to operate a vehicle. this is why dui's are so harsh. 2. minors have access to weed and it has been PROVEN to harm children who don't have their brains fully developed permanently. 3. introducing a minor to something illegally has definitely been proven that it's a gateway to obtain more substances or "try" harder things than weed. do you see how this can affect other people besides you? its all good and everything if you're in your house doing it alone but when you go out in public and you're beyond your tolerance the control you have over yourself is questionable especially on a individual by individual basis. The "you can't drive while stoned" myth is just that, a myth. I've driven stoned which I do as well as I do sober (if not better, since I DON'T go over the speed limit EVER when I drive baked) and the same is true for EVERY SINGLE PERSON that I've ever driven with. Hell it was a common nightly event to go drive down the backroads and smoke a few bowls. I still want to understand where people get these "facts" from and if they are from direct experience. Direct experience is honestly the only true way to know something.
my point was based on tolerance. you give a noobie with 0 tolerance a weed brownie and i can guarantee you he'll crash the car. this is FACT. i've eaten many weed brownies and the consumption of weed is far more powerful than ever smoking it. who's to say everyone is going to smoke it and not eat it? it's not a fucknig myth that not everyone is going to smoke it and some people are going to eat it before doing something that involves others like driving. the thing is i presented you with arguments that contain very real facts. you've only replied with "it's a myth bro, because me and my stoner buddies say so and only because a handful of 4-5 guys believe so"
i've been in a car with many stoners and they do far from perfect driving. they also have something else going on as well like having the music blasted beyond belief where they can't hear anything and or bob and weave the car consistently. so your "direct experience" is different from mine.
and you lost all credibility by saying direct experience. i'm not even going to take the time out to reply to you cause i already know you can never answer with a sound statistic/fact/ or study for your arguments and you support all your arguments through emotional bias.
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