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AMD Bulldozer official release and reviews. - Page 15

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gullberg
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Sweden1301 Posts
October 13 2011 14:32 GMT
#281
I was really looking forward to this CPU (work-related) but damn this is disappointing. Guess I'll have to buy the i7.
Nizaris
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium2230 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-13 14:35:33
October 13 2011 14:34 GMT
#282
^don't bother with the i7 unless money isn't an issue and/or you do video encoding (streaming). i5 does everything else just as good.

On October 13 2011 23:17 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Microcenter has i5s at 149.99 again.

fuk sometimes i wish i lived in the US. i'm gonna pay 225€ (300$) for a 2500K.
gullberg
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Sweden1301 Posts
October 13 2011 15:00 GMT
#283
On October 13 2011 23:34 Nizaris wrote:
^don't bother with the i7 unless money isn't an issue and/or you do video encoding (streaming). i5 does everything else just as good.

Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 23:17 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Microcenter has i5s at 149.99 again.

fuk sometimes i wish i lived in the US. i'm gonna pay 225€ (300$) for a 2500K.

I enjoy the performance boost HT gives to programs.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
October 13 2011 15:05 GMT
#284
I5s have no hyperthreading.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-13 15:09:47
October 13 2011 15:09 GMT
#285
On October 14 2011 00:05 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I5s have no hyperthreading.


No shit, that's why he was saying he wanted the i7... people were saying he shouldn't get what he needs is all.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
October 13 2011 15:14 GMT
#286
On October 14 2011 00:09 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2011 00:05 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I5s have no hyperthreading.


No shit, that's why he was saying he wanted the i7... people were saying he shouldn't get what he needs is all.


The language is ambiguous.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
October 13 2011 15:27 GMT
#287
On October 13 2011 23:02 TadH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 22:50 Myrmidon wrote:
You know, even though BD is relatively good at highly-threaded integer workloads, like for server use, on second glance, the die size is kind of disappointing for the performance you get.

BD 4 module FX-8150 is 315mm2, Sandy Bridge 4 core is 216mm2 yet has pretty much the same performance. I don't think that the corresponding Opteron and Xeon sizes will be that much off relatively. (and keep in mind that many of the Xeons don't have integrated graphics, and the 216mm2 includes the integrated graphics)

So the 2 module FX-4100 is another 315mm2 die and is trying to compete in price and performance with Intel's dual core i3-2100 at 131mm2. Seems expensive for AMD.

edit: maybe BD has too much cache? They've got 2MB L2 cache per module and 8MB L3 cache in all.

And the cache latency is terrible compared to Sandy Bridge. Memory latency not as good either.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/the-bulldozer-review-amd-fx8150-tested/6


So what you're saying is that if the cache size was reduced, the overall latency and performance ratio to mm would go up?


edit: Question: Does more cache mean more latency by default, or is that just better manufacturing and design by intel?


Well the comment about too much cache was just about die area. The overall design should have a much stronger impact on latency than how much cache there is.

I'm not sure how the cache is connected on Bulldozer, but Sandy Bridge uses a ring architecture to connect the cores, cache, IGP, and system agent.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3922/intels-sandy-bridge-architecture-exposed/4

A ring is a well-studied network topology used still in some networks today (but not like Ethernet, Wi-Fi, cell networks):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_network
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
October 13 2011 15:34 GMT
#288
6 years of work for this? wow. Certainly not something a gamer should acquire.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 13 2011 15:40 GMT
#289
On October 14 2011 00:34 Integra wrote:
6 years of work for this? wow. Certainly not something a gamer should acquire.


Yeah. I'd maybe consider the 8120 if I wanted a machine to run a lot of dedi's off of, but that's about it. Seems like with CPU affinities, that would work ok.
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
October 13 2011 15:52 GMT
#290
noooo AMD why I was a big fan of your work in the socket 939 days
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
IRONF1ST
Profile Joined October 2010
United States11 Posts
October 13 2011 15:57 GMT
#291
This feels like the second coming of Pentium 4 where the architecture might be good if it can scale to lots of cores but will instead fail horribly because it will run into a thermal wall.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
October 13 2011 16:05 GMT
#292
The power issue seems to be a due to BD's ridiculously high turbo speeds, Global Foundaries' 32nm process and AMD clocking them so high to make up for the IPC decrease. Under normal idle conditions, its about 100Watts from wall which is +10W over a SB, idle overclock is the same or lower. Its only when all 8 cores are under 100% load that the power consumption goes insane because it hits a wall and it becomes exponentially harder to get more processing power.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17782 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-13 17:00:11
October 13 2011 16:58 GMT
#293
On October 13 2011 23:14 gruff wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 22:38 Manit0u wrote:
On October 13 2011 11:39 JingleHell wrote:
On October 13 2011 11:37 mav451 wrote:
On October 13 2011 10:21 JingleHell wrote:
On October 13 2011 10:10 Antisocialmunky wrote:
On October 13 2011 10:06 JingleHell wrote:
On October 13 2011 10:00 Manit0u wrote:
On October 13 2011 09:33 Childplay wrote:
man why did amd spend all the time and money developing a chip thats slower than the one they already have in the most important part... gaming....


Perhaps they didn't intend to release it for gaming? There are other things to do with computers you know... And servers are pretty important too.


You don't advertise for a market if you aren't willing to get benched in that market. Common sense. I don't see Quadro getting advertised for gaming.


Well I think they incorrectly projected the market of CPUs when they started designing it all that time ago (4 years I think). I think they thought parallelism would be the way to go because us Computer Scientists would write software to take advantage of that for everything. Well 4 years later, Computer Scientists still don't quite know how best to do that in every application and processing power needs have leveled out somewhat so there's really not that much reason to need that much parallelism in every day stuff...


I don't really care what the reason is much, I'm just tired of hearing the "intended for servers" excuse being offered for a CPU that received so much bullshit hype as a gaming CPU. Or was I the only one here who watched IPL?


Haha I think we all watched the IPL - otherwise these guys are on the wrong forum :p


Well, anyone who watched IPL shouldn't be acting like AMD didn't hype it as a gaming processor.

If they could have kept their marketing in check, they'd be getting a lot less hate.


What's IPL? I'm being serious here. Some SC2 tournament?


And you call yourself an archon... *shakes head*

Yes, it's some sc2 tournament.


[image loading]

Been here long before SC2...

But let's get it back on track:

So, after a couple days this news have been out and heated discussion going on here, would someone be so kind as to sum things up nicely? Was this AMD release a failure? Is BD a viable purchase and in what cases? Are there any innovations in it people should know about? Or is it just an obsolete piece of hardware that has been released way past when it should?

Edit: You know, simple explanation for people whose brain shuts off incoming audio/video after hearing/seeing phrases like "memory latency".
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
zimz
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States510 Posts
October 13 2011 17:24 GMT
#294
[image loading]

im speechless.
zimz
MileyCyrus
Profile Joined August 2010
United States285 Posts
October 13 2011 17:24 GMT
#295
sad panda man, im quite loyal to the intel market but i always want someone to keep intel honest. Now that AMD is on the ropes so to speak, prices are going to be pretty rough on the intel side.

Guess they should change that commercial jungle from "bum-bu-bum-bum bah" to "cha-chu-cha-ccha-ching!"
vvv-gaming.com
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
October 13 2011 17:27 GMT
#296
On October 14 2011 01:58 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2011 23:14 gruff wrote:
On October 13 2011 22:38 Manit0u wrote:
On October 13 2011 11:39 JingleHell wrote:
On October 13 2011 11:37 mav451 wrote:
On October 13 2011 10:21 JingleHell wrote:
On October 13 2011 10:10 Antisocialmunky wrote:
On October 13 2011 10:06 JingleHell wrote:
On October 13 2011 10:00 Manit0u wrote:
On October 13 2011 09:33 Childplay wrote:
man why did amd spend all the time and money developing a chip thats slower than the one they already have in the most important part... gaming....


Perhaps they didn't intend to release it for gaming? There are other things to do with computers you know... And servers are pretty important too.


You don't advertise for a market if you aren't willing to get benched in that market. Common sense. I don't see Quadro getting advertised for gaming.


Well I think they incorrectly projected the market of CPUs when they started designing it all that time ago (4 years I think). I think they thought parallelism would be the way to go because us Computer Scientists would write software to take advantage of that for everything. Well 4 years later, Computer Scientists still don't quite know how best to do that in every application and processing power needs have leveled out somewhat so there's really not that much reason to need that much parallelism in every day stuff...


I don't really care what the reason is much, I'm just tired of hearing the "intended for servers" excuse being offered for a CPU that received so much bullshit hype as a gaming CPU. Or was I the only one here who watched IPL?


Haha I think we all watched the IPL - otherwise these guys are on the wrong forum :p


Well, anyone who watched IPL shouldn't be acting like AMD didn't hype it as a gaming processor.

If they could have kept their marketing in check, they'd be getting a lot less hate.


What's IPL? I'm being serious here. Some SC2 tournament?


And you call yourself an archon... *shakes head*

Yes, it's some sc2 tournament.


[image loading]

Been here long before SC2...

But let's get it back on track:

So, after a couple days this news have been out and heated discussion going on here, would someone be so kind as to sum things up nicely? Was this AMD release a failure? Is BD a viable purchase and in what cases? Are there any innovations in it people should know about? Or is it just an obsolete piece of hardware that has been released way past when it should?

Edit: You know, simple explanation for people whose brain shuts off incoming audio/video after hearing/seeing phrases like "memory latency".


Bulldozer is not a viable purchase for gamers and the majority of consumers. For gaming and lightly threaded software, it is greatly outperformed by Intel's Sandybridge and even AMD's older second generation Phenom can rival it.

Bulldozer is only good at heavily threaded software. But imo, if you were serious about your work, you would invest money into Intel's upcoming core i7 3930k or its existing core i7 2600k.

I don't see AMD succeeding with this architecture in the consumer market even if new iterations are due out every year. Intel's Ivybridge is likely to wipe the floor with the second iteration of Bulldozer, both of which are due in 2012.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
October 13 2011 17:32 GMT
#297
I don't get it when people say that something isn't viable when it is perfectly capable of doing so. That's like saying that an i3 isn't viable because its not an i5.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Amlitzer
Profile Joined August 2010
United States471 Posts
October 13 2011 17:37 GMT
#298
I am so bitterly disappointed by AMD's performance these past couple of years. I remember when I built my first computer and used a 939 3500+ from AMD, ah the good old days. Ever since then though, I've had no choice but to choose intel CPUs time and time again, and it looks like things are going to change.

At least this website is funny. http://amdisfinished.com/
"Not even justice, I want to get truth!"
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
October 13 2011 17:43 GMT
#299
On October 14 2011 02:32 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I don't get it when people say that something isn't viable when it is perfectly capable of doing so. That's like saying that an i3 isn't viable because its not an i5.


I simply used the word because the question was phrased that way. But it's pretty common sense... Intel equivalents of Bulldozer which is the core i5 2400 and core i5 2500k far outperform it and has a upgrade path to Ivybridge. Even AMD's older second generation Phenoms rival it and they're less expensive. There is absolutely no reason to be purchasing Bulldozer for the majority if not all consumers.

But hey if you think buying a vastly inferior product is viable than you're welcome to.
nalgene
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada2153 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-13 17:45:42
October 13 2011 17:44 GMT
#300
There's some bugs with the sharing resources in those "modules" of the BD. It has higher IPC ( sometimes even +35% higher than the other one ) if you ran it as 4modules/4Cores ( disable one in each ) vs 2modules/4Cores. It also seems to work better with Windows 8 than Windows 7.

Full load i7 at 3.4ghz = 155watts
Full load FX-8150 at 3.6ghz = 223watts
Year 2500 Greater Israel ( Bahrain, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen )
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