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On September 28 2011 00:53 Mohdoo wrote:
Can someone elaborate on what exactly a gypsy.. is? I don't get it. I'm having a hard time finding a definition which seems to fit what's being talked about in this thread.
Indians that travelled West around 1000 years ago. Now they live mainly in eastern Europe causing alot of trouble as you can see in this thread.
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On September 28 2011 00:57 Motivate wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 00:54 PlaGuE_R wrote:On September 28 2011 00:46 Motivate wrote:
wow i had no idea about the whole gypsy situation, but that's because i'm in australia
how is it that an entire ethnic group is so hated and fixed in their ways? doesn't seem to be any other ethnic group like this. while indigenous australians are much worse off than other groups in australia, it seems to be largely from a lack of opportunity and historically they were treated terribly. they do get a lot of special treatment now, but it doesn't seem like the right kind of treatment and like gypsies, there have been issues integrating them. but they don't hang together in groups and steal shit. i just don't get how an entire culture can be based around immoral stuff like that. how can people not be generalising here?
also, when people say "gypsy" does it refer to the romani ethnic group or just the subgroup roma? having lived in australia, i can tell you that aborigens dont get nearly as bad a wrap as gypsies. the general feeling on them was ranging from indifference to mild disgust. come to France, EVERYONE here despise gyspies, there are NO exceptions. that's true, and the view is generally that indigenous australians are disadvantaged at no fault of their own. but what i don't understand is how can gypsies be an ethnic group, rather than a culture? it doesn't really make sense how an entire ethnic group can be like that.
They are an ethnic group since they have the same ethnicity. They are from the indian subcontinent and they emigrated to europe some 1300 years ago.
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On September 28 2011 00:57 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 00:53 Mohdoo wrote:
Can someone elaborate on what exactly a gypsy.. is? I don't get it. I'm having a hard time finding a definition which seems to fit what's being talked about in this thread. a gypsy is so,eone who comes from romania/bulgaria but is actually a different ethnicity, their skin is darker then the romanians/bulgarians. they are a society of thieves, crooks and drug peddlers, they like to live in caravans leeching off of people and robbing them, they will do anything for money and they do not do this out of necessity (gypsie towing caravans with BMW X5 sup) but rather because they like it and are proud of this bullshit crap they pull. there is only one defense agaisnt gypsies, guard dogs. they hate dogs
A bit harsh maybe 
But you can watch this BBC documentary called "Gypsy Child Thieves" (focuses mainly on gypsies in spain/france/italy).
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=HUB1YBOD
Shows some of the problems that people have with gypsies. Very good documentary if you are confused as to why so many people dislike gypsies, explains a lot.
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On September 28 2011 00:52 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 00:47 n00b3rt wrote:On September 28 2011 00:39 Probe1 wrote:
n00b3rt it reads like all 10 of the kids are posting in this thread~
Post a fuckin solution instead of blanketing every single person of one group as murderous leeches.
read my post before being dumb. You have more than 6k posts, and you still haven't learnt to read those of others ? if it's too long for you, don't make comments about it while insulting me. And if you are so smart maybe you can give a solution ? Wow you like, totally didn't read any page of the thread but your own. Of course I read your post. And I also posted the need for a moderate solution that I, not being a native Bulgarian, would not have the wherewithal to come up with. .. nevermind that was in irc. This is raging in more than one forum. How about, instead of me coming up with a solution- let's hear yours. Bonus points if it isn't fucking nuts.
or instead how about not playing the statue of ethics and morality and preaching bullshit with the intention of trolling people who been fed up with a very serious problem. guess what, gypsys were travellers who been welcomed by many host countrys famous for the hospitality. theyve been guests, and as far as i know the host free to decide if the guests presence is burdensome or not. if in case it is, the host may ask them to abide his rules or leave. or make them leave with force if needed. we are here now, theyll be expelled at one point. the only question is, which will be the less violent way, but unfortunately its up for them and most people dont have bright expectation.
i think you would not have a problem with the scenario i walk into your house, eat up your food, shitting to the floor and when u ask me to behave or leave id spit u in the face. nah man... you would just call the police who would shock me to near death with the teaser gun than took me out unconcious.
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What?! I see swedish and finns complaining about easter europeans treatment of gypsies?! Well the hypocrisy! You "returned" hundreds of gypsies back to Romania! Why didn't your country keep the poor folks?
And this is getting stupid. We're not speaking about hate against a race (racism) but hate against a behavior (and unfortunately, it's common for gypsies to act as such) and to dislike everyone who acts this way no matter his ethnicity.
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On September 28 2011 00:52 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 00:47 n00b3rt wrote:On September 28 2011 00:39 Probe1 wrote:
n00b3rt it reads like all 10 of the kids are posting in this thread~
Post a fuckin solution instead of blanketing every single person of one group as murderous leeches.
read my post before being dumb. You have more than 6k posts, and you still haven't learnt to read those of others ? if it's too long for you, don't make comments about it while insulting me. And if you are so smart maybe you can give a solution ? Wow you like, totally didn't read any page of the thread but your own. Of course I read your post. And I also posted the need for a moderate solution that I, not being a native Bulgarian, would not have the wherewithal to come up with. .. nevermind that was in irc. This is raging in more than one forum. How about, instead of me coming up with a solution- let's hear yours. Bonus points if it isn't fucking nuts.
If there's any solution, the person acting on it would better have no family or friends. Or they'll share the same fate as the boy, whose death started the protests.
I don't quite get if you're talking about the gypsy problem, or what this thread is actually about. If it isn't for the latter, please stop derailing. You said you've read my post, so I'd figure you already know that the major problem here aren't gypsies
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On September 28 2011 00:57 vanhio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 00:55 m00nchile wrote:On September 28 2011 00:48 vanhio wrote:On September 28 2011 00:42 RajaF wrote:On September 28 2011 00:40 drdreggor wrote:On September 28 2011 00:26 vanhio wrote:On September 28 2011 00:05 drdreggor wrote:On September 27 2011 23:25 vanhio wrote:
But when some of the gypsies refuse to work and are criminals, that isn't racism, that is being USELESS to society.
90% of them refuse to work and the only thing they do is stealing. People who wants only privilegs and no responsibilities are plague to society. Most of them are not paying their bills and still gets water and electricity. Free water and electricity sounds cool right ? Who do you think pays for all of this ? Who do you think pays child support to every 15 years old gipsy girl with 3 childrens ? People here are sick and tired of this SHIT ! Aaaaaaand here we go again. What the FUCK do you know about how many gypsies that won't work? Where do you get your info? Probably from what you believe and have experienced, and various influences such as media and/or friends. You are making assumptions based on NOTHIN except personal experience and that is not enough to justify expelling a large number of humans, as some of you here sometimes forget the gypsies are. Well, all-knowing guy who lives in a different world let me tell you this. You don`t live here. You don`t where these gypsies live. You don`t see how many of them are going to school. You don`t KNOW how many of them are in JAIL. You don`t know SHIT to be fair. And not writing these posts to CONVINCE somebody that bulgarian gypsies are bad etc.. We know what they are. WE LIVE WITH THEM, UNLIKE YOU. Feel free to come here and see with your own eyes. Edit: I don`t think i need EXACT numbers cuz i live here for 25 years and MAYBE i have an idea how things are... I'm not making wild assumptions though about how 90% of them refuse to work, that's what I'm criticizing; you stating things as facts when you in fact really can't back it up. I'm not claiming to know how the situation actually is, like you are. And you say you live with them blabla, and think that your opinion therefore can be applied to an entire population, well guess what, your opinion doesn't matter on a larger scale unless you can actively back it up. Instead of condemning Gypsies, why aren't you condemning all people who murder, rape etc. You don't know any of these numbers, neither do I; but you are acting like you're the one sitting on the truths. Actually it's not a "wild assumption" friend. The 2001 and 2006 romanian census found that 92% and 94% of the roma population was unemployed and not looking for work. No point to argue with statistician. You don`t have the numbers, you are wrong. Well i guess living in Bulgaria my whole life, doesnt mean i have an idea about stuff in Bulgaria. No need to reply to this genius. The hell? He said that the vast majority of gypsies were unemployed and not looking for work. He's not only agreeing there is a problem, he's posting eveidence as well. Why attack a person trying to prove your point? Im just saying its no use to argue with people who only wants numbers. Im not attacking the guy jesus -_-
My point was just that your post came off a bit agressive towards an outsider (he's canadian) that agrees with us, since the prevalent opinion of people not directly affected with the gypsy problem is that we're primitive racists who want a new holocaust.
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On September 28 2011 00:57 Motivate wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 00:54 PlaGuE_R wrote:On September 28 2011 00:46 Motivate wrote:
wow i had no idea about the whole gypsy situation, but that's because i'm in australia
how is it that an entire ethnic group is so hated and fixed in their ways? doesn't seem to be any other ethnic group like this. while indigenous australians are much worse off than other groups in australia, it seems to be largely from a lack of opportunity and historically they were treated terribly. they do get a lot of special treatment now, but it doesn't seem like the right kind of treatment and like gypsies, there have been issues integrating them. but they don't hang together in groups and steal shit. i just don't get how an entire culture can be based around immoral stuff like that. how can people not be generalising here?
also, when people say "gypsy" does it refer to the romani ethnic group or just the subgroup roma? having lived in australia, i can tell you that aborigens dont get nearly as bad a wrap as gypsies. the general feeling on them was ranging from indifference to mild disgust. come to France, EVERYONE here despise gyspies, there are NO exceptions. that's true, and the view is generally that indigenous australians are disadvantaged at no fault of their own. but what i don't understand is how can gypsies be an ethnic group, rather than a culture? it doesn't really make sense how an entire ethnic group can be like that.
its a mystery to everyone. I know that i've seen 3 types of indigenous australians in my time living in perth, the alcoholics who seem depressed, the lower class guy, and the ones that are lower middle class and trying to better their lot.
crimes, as far as i could tell, were committed by either aborigenese, bikers or poor white people. I could not look at an aborigen and think "careful, he'll try to rob me" it was in the back of my mind faintly, but i wasnt wary, i just told myself it was a stereotype and unless he bumped into me i didnt care.
I see a gypsy walking towards me, im keeping a hand on my wallet and phone
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Reminds me of a case in the UK a while back where a Traveller kid (lives in caravan and moves around a lot, but not ethnically a 'gypsy') got pretty brutally murdered in Liverpool. Something like he was held down and repeatedly got his skull kicked in. In court the buggers who did it (older boys from the school he was attending I think) defended themselves by saying he 'was only a gypo', or words to that effect. However, the judge refused to class it as a hate crime (which holds a much higher sentencing time), because he judged that 'Gypsy' wasn't a race. I remember thinking it was pretty stupid.
More relevantly, at the school I went to, we had to walk across a park to get to the playing fields ect, and most summers a group of travellers would settle there, usually a dozen or so caravans. The people were quite, well, chav-y, but I still felt really uncomfortable when my friends would complain about them as 'fucking gypsys', or whatnot. Don't know how much of it was joking, but there is definitely a huge public prejudice against persons of no fixed abode.
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On September 28 2011 01:02 m00nchile wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 00:57 vanhio wrote:On September 28 2011 00:55 m00nchile wrote:On September 28 2011 00:48 vanhio wrote:On September 28 2011 00:42 RajaF wrote:On September 28 2011 00:40 drdreggor wrote:On September 28 2011 00:26 vanhio wrote:On September 28 2011 00:05 drdreggor wrote:On September 27 2011 23:25 vanhio wrote:
But when some of the gypsies refuse to work and are criminals, that isn't racism, that is being USELESS to society.
90% of them refuse to work and the only thing they do is stealing. People who wants only privilegs and no responsibilities are plague to society. Most of them are not paying their bills and still gets water and electricity. Free water and electricity sounds cool right ? Who do you think pays for all of this ? Who do you think pays child support to every 15 years old gipsy girl with 3 childrens ? People here are sick and tired of this SHIT ! Aaaaaaand here we go again. What the FUCK do you know about how many gypsies that won't work? Where do you get your info? Probably from what you believe and have experienced, and various influences such as media and/or friends. You are making assumptions based on NOTHIN except personal experience and that is not enough to justify expelling a large number of humans, as some of you here sometimes forget the gypsies are. Well, all-knowing guy who lives in a different world let me tell you this. You don`t live here. You don`t where these gypsies live. You don`t see how many of them are going to school. You don`t KNOW how many of them are in JAIL. You don`t know SHIT to be fair. And not writing these posts to CONVINCE somebody that bulgarian gypsies are bad etc.. We know what they are. WE LIVE WITH THEM, UNLIKE YOU. Feel free to come here and see with your own eyes. Edit: I don`t think i need EXACT numbers cuz i live here for 25 years and MAYBE i have an idea how things are... I'm not making wild assumptions though about how 90% of them refuse to work, that's what I'm criticizing; you stating things as facts when you in fact really can't back it up. I'm not claiming to know how the situation actually is, like you are. And you say you live with them blabla, and think that your opinion therefore can be applied to an entire population, well guess what, your opinion doesn't matter on a larger scale unless you can actively back it up. Instead of condemning Gypsies, why aren't you condemning all people who murder, rape etc. You don't know any of these numbers, neither do I; but you are acting like you're the one sitting on the truths. Actually it's not a "wild assumption" friend. The 2001 and 2006 romanian census found that 92% and 94% of the roma population was unemployed and not looking for work. No point to argue with statistician. You don`t have the numbers, you are wrong. Well i guess living in Bulgaria my whole life, doesnt mean i have an idea about stuff in Bulgaria. No need to reply to this genius. The hell? He said that the vast majority of gypsies were unemployed and not looking for work. He's not only agreeing there is a problem, he's posting eveidence as well. Why attack a person trying to prove your point? Im just saying its no use to argue with people who only wants numbers. Im not attacking the guy jesus -_- My point was just that your post came off a bit agressive towards an outsider (he's canadian) that agrees with us, since the prevalent opinion of people not directly affected with the gypsy problem is that we're primitive racists who want a new holocaust.
I should mention this :p
I'm from Romania but living in Canada.
Which is funny since I have came across some of the only roma people that have been let in by the canadian government, when they allowed Hungary visas to Canada. They don't allow them in anymore though. I wonder why.
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On September 28 2011 00:55 amagumo wrote:
I don't know if it is a translational error but, from the news site, what does "A crowd of fans" refer to specifically?
There are bunch of football team organized supporters groups, that joined hands to make those protests possible all over the country. It's kinda amazing to see fans of bitter rivals, who would otherwise be kicking each others teeth out at the first opportunity, joining hands to protest vs. crime and corruption.
Of course, there are racists within those groups (normal feature for european football fan clubs), but that shouldn't distract the protesters from their main goal - getting rid of Kiril Rashkov reign of crime in that region.
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This problem it's getting bigger and bigger in Bulgaria so we (Club Fans) will stop this...since our goverment can't.
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You should all come visit with me in Toronto in their community. I'll be your guide. I'm not responsible for any business decisions you make in the building.
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On September 27 2011 23:44 Pika Chu wrote:
Unfortunately, no matter how open minded you are no matter how tolerant, when you live in a country/city with a lot of gypsies you're eventually going to have enough of it.
And what people wrote is true, they don't want to change! Because it's easier to steal/rob/kill than work for money. The ruling gypsies are rich as fuck and they also control the police and have good business relations with political leaders (you think they couldn't stop the sex slavery if they wanted to).
It's easy to live somewhere where you don't interact with gypsies and say "omg, don't discriminate.. poor guys, they are like the jews" but it's hard to impossible when you have to live with them. Why? They don't fear authorities, don't fear police, don't fear justice. Don't wanna work, don't want to study, don't want to follow any norms of the society. Of course there are exceptions, of great gypsies or normal gypsies who are having a life just as a normal romanian... but it's rare.. under 1%.
I have two problems with this kind of attitude. The first is that it's unfair towards those who try to lead a normal life. It's hard enough if you come from a poor uneducated family that probably doesn't care too much about getting a degree. But then they have to deal with idiots along the way who instead of giving them credit actually lump them together with those who steal.
I'm not saying you are doing that but unfortunately many are and that sort of hardcore genetic racism isn't really comdemned hard enough.
The second one is that it's ignoring the reality of the situation. We're talking about a huge number of people with higher growth rates than the general population. What people are doing is basically venting. It's leading nowhere. There isn't going to be mass deportation or worse. The problem is here to stay so we might as well try looking for solutions.
Here in Hungary we've seen both liberal and more authoritarian approaches. It didn't seem to make a difference either way. What does work (at least some of the time) when people engage on a community level. But you can't engage people unless you show a basic level of respect towards them.
I've worked as a voluntary tutor for poor kids. More than half of them Roma. From what I've seen they are just like normal kids. Maybe a little less accepting of authority. Sometimes unmotivated but no worse than the average middle school kid.
More importantly I've talked with a lot of teachers working in special education and heard stories of how kids were sent there mostly because of behavioural problems. A teacher told me how 90% of those deemed fit for "normal" education at the end of year assessment were Roma. No wonder, they shouldn't have been in special ed in the first place.
Or how Roma kids were bullied about being stupid by their non-Roma classmates. Yeah, Roma kids get bullied too and the bullying is based on stereotypes we as adults spread.
The question isn't whether the prejudices we have are justified or not. The question is whether it's making the problem better or worse. And I think the majority of people think about this is actually making the problem worse, not better.
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Calling it now: Next war in less than 10years! And when I say war I mean with the big guys... Nothing like Raiding a Gaddafi or Invading middle east!
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There are some gipsys in my country as well and i can say that from a minority prespective they are the most hated in Portugal.
Forget gay, black, asian etc.. etc. gipsys are the most hated race because they don't mingle with the rest of our nation or culture, they stay away from everything that is not gipsy! If you fall in love in a gipsy women you are basiclly fucked because they will hunt you down and they have a mob mentality like "if you touch one of us, you touch all of us"!
Most of them are always connected with crime, drug abuse and dealing, women abuse(since they marry their daughters at really young age), robbing and selling ilegal and pirated stuff!
I don't really hate them but i don't like their traditions and culture simply because it goes against the Women and Men rights and because they still live in a almost medieval society..
Send your girls to school, clean yourselves, learn and work, don't live outside of society or else society will never accept you. Living off crime, subsidies and selling crap goods is not a good life for you or your children.
In my opinion there isn't much space in european society for people that think like nomads and live with us but outside of our society. If they want that life go and live in Siberia where you can be free... here in the concrete jungle you have to follow the rules!
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On September 28 2011 01:00 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 00:57 PlaGuE_R wrote:On September 28 2011 00:53 Mohdoo wrote:
Can someone elaborate on what exactly a gypsy.. is? I don't get it. I'm having a hard time finding a definition which seems to fit what's being talked about in this thread. a gypsy is so,eone who comes from romania/bulgaria but is actually a different ethnicity, their skin is darker then the romanians/bulgarians. they are a society of thieves, crooks and drug peddlers, they like to live in caravans leeching off of people and robbing them, they will do anything for money and they do not do this out of necessity (gypsie towing caravans with BMW X5 sup) but rather because they like it and are proud of this bullshit crap they pull. there is only one defense agaisnt gypsies, guard dogs. they hate dogs A bit harsh maybe But you can watch this BBC documentary called "Gypsy Child Thieves" (focuses mainly on gypsies in spain/france/italy). http://www.megavideo.com/?v=HUB1YBODShows some of the problems that people have with gypsies. Very good documentary if you are confused as to why so many people dislike gypsies, explains a lot.
a bit harsh? maybe so, however everything i said is 100% personal experience, not third hand crap, thats all stuff i experienced personally
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On September 27 2011 21:18 Passion wrote:"The people had only one requirement. They wanted all gypsies to leave the village immediately." That's not really normal, is it? One member of a minority community causes an accident ("...ran over a 19-year-old Bulgarian man.") and they all must leave? The source seems rather dodgy in general, making statements such as "In Europe, gypsies live in France, Germany and many other countries of Western Europe. They live separately from the society and make their living on drugs, swindling and robbery." Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 21:10 Probe1 wrote:
Sorry, did you just compare the deportation of Roma peoples from France, Europe, Bulgaria et al to the Nazi extermination of groups they deemed undesirable?
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Why do you deem this comparison so far fetched? The step from deportation to extermination isn't THAT huge. It both starts with the idea that these people don't have the right to live (here). Edit: This pravda site is a complete joke. Nice example: http://english.pravda.ru/world/africa/23-09-2011/119133-libya_terrorists-0/
Seriously..... did you just state that deportation is close to extermination??????? I'm actually dumbfounded... Hmmm would I rather be forced to move or gassed to death? Come on man lol there is a god damn hue difference between believe they don't have a right to live and don't have a right to live here, comparing the two is like apples and oranges.
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EPT
