EPTEdit: Not that I think forced abortion should be legal but it is not fair that women can choose to have sex without risk of ever having a child and men must ultimately leave the choice up to whomever they are sleeping with. If a man with no desire for children wants to have a night of fun and the condom fails, suddenly he has a kid to either abandon or be burdened with. A woman in the same position suddenly has to get an abortion, which while not a negligible thing is less impactful on the rest of her life. A man should not be expected to provide child support in the case of an unplanned pregnancy. If the woman chooses to raise it despite the man not wanting to have a kid, the woman should have to take on all responsibility, including the financial. After all, it is HER choice.
Financial Abortion - Page 2
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theKOT
United States167 Posts
Edit: Not that I think forced abortion should be legal but it is not fair that women can choose to have sex without risk of ever having a child and men must ultimately leave the choice up to whomever they are sleeping with. If a man with no desire for children wants to have a night of fun and the condom fails, suddenly he has a kid to either abandon or be burdened with. A woman in the same position suddenly has to get an abortion, which while not a negligible thing is less impactful on the rest of her life. A man should not be expected to provide child support in the case of an unplanned pregnancy. If the woman chooses to raise it despite the man not wanting to have a kid, the woman should have to take on all responsibility, including the financial. After all, it is HER choice. | ||
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Thrill
2599 Posts
1. Contraceptives - you have to differentiate between protected and unprotected sex. 2. The abortion argument - equating a surgical procedure with a social stigma to simply saying "i don't want to pay for this baby" is not only stupid but offensive. If it was that easy for women, we'd live in a different world where children weren't born into poverty. 3. Most importantly though - you're forgetting about the main character in this drama: the innocent child. Who do you suggest should pay for this child to grow up with opportunities? Society? No society in the world would be able to bear the expense this moronic suggestion would spawn. Abortion is supposed to be an option. With this suggestion it'd become a necessity for society to cope. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:59 PrideNeverDie wrote: this was taken from another forum i want to see what the opinions of Team Liquid are on this subject if we accept that men and women are both people if we accept the act of sex does not equate to consent to raise and support a child (see roe v. wade/adoption legality) if we accept that men and women deserve equal protection under the law (see 14th amendment of your constitution) then logically we must conclude that men deserve the right to have sex without it meaning consent is given to raise a child. currently, that is obviously not the case. from the moment a man ejaculates in the same room as a woman (dont laugh, women have scraped semen off rags and shoved it inside themselves to get pregnant) he is potentially on the hook for 20 years of child support. this isnt the case for women. women have the right to have sex, then later decide they aren't ready or dont want to become a parent. even for those opposed to abortion, adoption exists. what we have here is an obvious case of gender discrimination. what is TL's thoughts on the subject? do you think men deserve the right to have sex without consenting to paying for and raising a child for 20 years? if a man does not want the child, can he be freed from the financial obligations of child support? LOL wow. Crazy bitches always be scrapin' up semen and jammn' it in themselves. I do it all the time, and so do alllll my friends. We even have parties for it. We invite over some poor chump, all get pregnant off him, and then demand child support. It's all part of our feminist agenda (tm)! Holy shit get over yourself. | ||
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PrideNeverDie
United States319 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:30 Haemonculus wrote: LOL wow. Crazy bitches always be scrapin' up semen and jammn' it in themselves. I do it all the time, and so do alllll my friends. We even have parties for it. We invite over some poor chump, all get pregnant off him, and then demand child support. It's all part of our feminist agenda (tm)! Holy shit get over yourself. how about lying to their bf/husbands and telling them the child is theirs? is that a more realistic and plausible scenario for you. in that case, even if he can prove the child isn't his, he still has to pay child support for the child for 20 years. how about addressing the proposal for men to not have to pay court-ordered child support if he did not want the baby, but the woman did? most men would definitely have some role in their children's life and would be willing to pay for the absolute essentials even if they did not want to have the child at first. however, forcing them through the legal system is something i think should be changed. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
If abortion is free to all women and the choice is totally theirs; then why should the man be forced to atone for a choice that is not his? That does make logical sense. It would help reduce teenage pregnancy too. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:57 Klive5ive wrote: The argument holds weight. If abortion is free to all women and the choice is totally theirs; then why should the man be forced to atone for a choice that is not his? That does make logical sense. It would help reduce teenage pregnancy too. Except that abortion is *not* free to all women. There is a huge campaign in this country to restrict access to abortion even further. Check out the new abortion restriction laws Virgina passed just yesterday. Or the parental consent laws in some southern states. Or that some states are attempting to entirely outlaw abortion entirely, (and in the case of North Dakota, make it illegal even to leave the state to seek one elsewhere), or that there are only 9 abortion providing clinics in the entire state of Georgia, and that they all have numerous legal loopholes to jump through. Low-income women especially have trouble finding access to abortion, (and even contraceptives in some states). The reproductive health in our nation is pretty sad. | ||
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Jongl0
631 Posts
You have to take responsibility for your actions. | ||
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Timestreamer
Israel157 Posts
This is analog to taking all the necessary precautions in terms of safety in the workplace then having an accident which might be considered "act of god" - you wouldn't be held accountable. | ||
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Puph
Canada635 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:01 ChinaLifeXXL wrote: Seems fair. Just be careful with ya spermies, bro. Double bag it if you're paranoid, imo. failwow. Men should have 49% of the say in an abortion... oh wait they already do  On September 18 2011 22:14 Timestreamer wrote: It makes sense that if the man "didn't sign up" to raise a child(so to speak), and took precautions such as condoms, then he should be able to give up any parental rights in favor of not paying child support. This is analog to taking all the necessary precautions in terms of safety in the workplace then having an accident which might be considered "act of god" - you wouldn't be held accountable. impossible to prove you took the necessary precautions unless you film a high-res video of the act | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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Timestreamer
Israel157 Posts
impossible to prove you took the necessary precautions unless you film a high-res video of the act I'd like to think it's possible if there are people whose jobs are making sure you did so/did not do so. edit: I mean this far as safety in the workplace go, not sex  | ||
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Nancial
197 Posts
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whiteguycash
United States476 Posts
If you choose not to, make better decisions about the women you choose to sleep with. All of this could have been prevented with proper foresight and rational development of though. In other words, if you continually think with your dick, you deserve to be held accountable for what comes (please excuse the pun) of it. Accountability has no statute of limitations. I feel like any "right" that a man may feel he has in terms of prior notification to a woman's decision on dealing with a child, as well as any say on dealing with said child are forfeit when he engages in an act which exists for procreation. | ||
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Chylo
United States220 Posts
On September 18 2011 22:05 Haemonculus wrote: Except that abortion is *not* free to all women. There is a huge campaign in this country to restrict access to abortion even further. Check out the new abortion restriction laws Virgina passed just yesterday. Or the parental consent laws in some southern states. Or that some states are attempting to entirely outlaw abortion entirely, (and in the case of North Dakota, make it illegal even to leave the state to seek one elsewhere), or that there are only 9 abortion providing clinics in the entire state of Georgia, and that they all have numerous legal loopholes to jump through. Low-income women especially have trouble finding access to abortion, (and even contraceptives in some states). The reproductive health in our nation is pretty sad. Yes, how dare they try to create laws to stop people from killing their babies! The horror! Low-income generally means minority, and abortion centers are virtually always in the middle of minority areas. The goal has always been population control of "undesirables" with abortion. It's truly amazing how hard people like you would condemn people such as Hitler for eliminating the people he didn't like, yet you can't see the exact same thing happening right in your own country. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On September 18 2011 22:33 Chylo wrote: Yes, how dare they try to create laws to stop people from killing their babies! The horror! Considering that most anti-choice activists couldn't give two shits about said babies once they're born, I find this unlikely to be their sole motivator. Low-income generally means minority, and abortion centers are virtually always in the middle of minority areas. The goal has always been population control of "undesirables" with abortion. It's truly amazing how hard people like you would condemn people such as Hitler for eliminating the people he didn't like, yet you can't see the exact same thing happening right in your own country. I don't even know how to touch that one, wolo | ||
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Deleted User 108965
1096 Posts
On September 18 2011 21:30 Haemonculus wrote: LOL wow. Crazy bitches always be scrapin' up semen and jammn' it in themselves. I do it all the time, and so do alllll my friends. We even have parties for it. We invite over some poor chump, all get pregnant off him, and then demand child support. It's all part of our feminist agenda (tm)! Holy shit get over yourself. you know people actually do that crap right? he's just keeping all options open. i dont think we need to get all offended and start the personal attacks. | ||
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bode927
United States164 Posts
If you can't trust the girl you're having sex with to not take the condom or towel or whatever and try to make herself pregnant, you shouldn't be having sex with her. Of course, I don't support abortions in general, but that's a completely separate debate Edit: Also, like its been said before, if you can't pay the child support, don't have the sex. Everyone knows that pregnancy is a risk of it no matter how much birth control is involved. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On September 18 2011 22:41 FrankWalls wrote: you know people actually do that crap right? he's just keeping all options open. i dont think we need to get all offended and start the personal attacks. I'm sure there's a few crazies out there who have done such things. To use such an unusual and highly uncommon example in an argument is ridiculous though. | ||
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StinkyBoots
Canada76 Posts
The problem I see in this quote is this. The woman has all the control over the decision. What if a man wanted to keep the baby and the woman wanted an abortion? Who has the right to choose in this situation? Should the man be compensated for 20 years if she chooses not to keep it. If not then why should a man choosing not to keep a baby be taxed for the woman's choice of keeping the baby? Though the man should "man up", these are questions we must ask our justice system. | ||
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