U.S. authorities are scrambling to sort through information that the CIA developed in the past 24 hours indicating that at least three individuals entered the U.S. in August by air with the intent to launch a vehicle-borne attack against Washington, D.C. or New York around the anniversary of 9/11, according to intelligence officials.
Officials say the alleged terror plot was initiated by new al Qaeda chief Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's successor, who had pledged to avenge bin Laden's death earlier this year in a U.S. raid.
Officials are linking the threat information to a diary found at Osama bin Laden's compound, which referred to a plan for a strike on the 9/11 anniversary.
“As we know from the intelligence gathered from the OBL raid, AQ has shown an interest in important dates and anniversaries, such as 9/11,” said Matt Chandler of the Department of Homeland Security in a statement on Thursday. “In this instance, it’s accurate that there is specific, credible but unconfirmed threat information.”
Well it's another threat made by Al-Qaeda. Hopefully it doesn't affect anymore people as it already has. To think that people who have already lost family and friends on 9/11 losing more people again, is just saddening.
By no means is that even coming close to endorsing their actions or even being indifferent, of course I'm fully against it 100%. They're already at a low is what I'm saying, I don't think it's possible for them to "stoop lower." Rather, I see it more as "expected."
On September 10 2011 05:02 FabledIntegral wrote: I don't see how it's "stooping low."
By no means is that even coming close to endorsing their actions or even being indifferent, of course I'm fully against it 100%. They're already at a low is what I'm saying, I don't think it's possible for them to "stoop lower."
100% agreed, I mean it's not like you could expect anything else from this fanatic worldwide terrorist organisation...
On September 10 2011 05:00 AxelTVx wrote: I think it's sickening to think that the Al Qaeda's would stoop so low as to make everyone remember the travesty that had happened 10 years ago. What are your thoughts on this issue that may occur?
You write about Al Qaeda like they're regular guys. Ofcourse they will " stoop so low as to make everyone remember the travesty that had happened 10 years ago", they are the ones that did it! They are fanatical fundamentalist terrorist that hate America and the west more than anything. They would drop an atom bomb on America if they ever got the chance.
They don't care what low they are hitting when they carry out their attacks, besides there are always warnings when big events happen, such as this. I hope it's a hoax of course.
hmmm interesting I wonder if that's what they're really planning or an intentional diversion.
I would definitely be sure to stay away from those areas for September 11. Who knows what might happen?
Anyway from the Terrorist's point of view they're doing the right thing, they don't see it as stooping low at all. It's almost like Hitler who had the supposedly "noble" idea of starting a genetically superior race of superhumans by wiping out all the allegedly "inferior" ones (aka. everybody but the Nazis) to make the human race better as a whole.
As an interesting fact did you guys know Hitler invented steroids to make his bodyguards stronger? :D That blew my mind when I found out.
errr. Al Qaeda's are the reason there is a 9/11 in the first place, they were "heartless" enough to kill three thousand people with two well placed planes ....
On September 10 2011 05:09 NotSorry wrote: they been claiming this every year and it never happens, I don't believe it anymore than what I see on fox news
Maybe because our agencies find them and stop the attacks before they happen? Either that or the terrorists are trying to scare us.
On September 10 2011 05:09 NotSorry wrote: they been claiming this every year and it never happens, I don't believe it anymore than what I see on fox news
Maybe because our agencies find them and stop the attacks before they happen? Either that or the terrorists are trying to scare us.
I think they're just incompetent.
How little success terrorists have had since 9/11 never fail to amaze me.
On September 10 2011 05:14 Drteeth wrote: errr. Al Qaeda's are the reason there is a 9/11 in the first place, they were "heartless" enough to kill three thousand people with two well placed planes ....
3 well placed planes. And one that wasn't so well placed (For Al Qaeda- the passengers retook it and crashed it in a Pennsylvania field).
There something I never understood about this terrorists, if they want to "do damage" and such, why the hell would they announce their intentions? it makes no sense, it will make the authorities be even MORE careful of a potential attack. Is there any other reason besides having people terrified (wich is already pretty bad)?
On September 10 2011 05:14 Drteeth wrote: errr. Al Qaeda's are the reason there is a 9/11 in the first place, they were "heartless" enough to kill three thousand people with two well placed planes ....
3 well placed planes. And one that wasn't so well placed (For Al Qaeda- the passengers retook it and crashed it in a Pennsylvania field).
One of the real tragedies of 9/11 and the subsequent effects is how it has been used to evoke fear, anger, and strip away, in America in particular, but it resonates throughout Europe to a lessoned extent, our values and liberty.
War has been waged, torture justified and practised, people held without trial for years at a time, rights to privacy carved down. As a result of a small group of extremeists an entire religion, and culture has been villainised to the point where "muslim" "islamic" "arab" "middle-eastern" have gone from descriptions to accusations.
Thousands of innocent Americans were murdered by fanatics on 9/11. Tens of thousands more innocent citizens have been killed, tortured, wounded, lost members of their family, their homes, their livelihoods as a result of America's, and the Wests response to that event.
Although that said Modern Warfare 2 is a super fun cool game, so its swings and roundabouts i guess...
On September 10 2011 05:24 Ko1tz wrote: There something I never understood about this terrorists, if they want to "do damage" and such, why the hell would they announce their intentions? it makes no sense, it will make the authorities be even MORE careful of a potential attack. Is there any other reason besides having people terrified (wich is already pretty bad)?
The word terrorist should give it away, terrorism isn't just about killing people, it's about causing disruption, making people change habits, causing terror. The IRA in the 80's in the UK were very very good at it.
On September 10 2011 05:25 XeliN wrote: One of the real tragedies of 9/11 and the subsequent effects is how it has been used to evoke fear, anger, and strip away, in America in particular, but it resonates throughout Europe to a lessoned extent, our values and liberty.
War has been waged, torture justified and practised, people held without trial for years at a time, rights to privacy carved down. As a result of a small group of extremeists an entire religion, and culture has been villainised to the point where "muslim" "islamic" "arab" "middle-eastern" have gone from descriptions to accusations.
Thousands of innocent Americans were murdered by fanatics on 9/11. Tens of thousands more innocent citizens have been killed, tortured, wounded, lost members of their family, their homes, their livelihoods as a result of America's, and the Wests response to that event.
Although that said Modern Warfare 2 is a super fun cool game, so its swings and roundabouts i guess...
Simply have to agree 100% on this.
In the past I always held the U.S. as one of the most principled countries on liberty and rights.
Unfortunately the actions taken after 9/11 has changed that picture so much for me I would now rank them very low on those issues in comparison with the rest of western world.
It's just sad as fuck really, you're supposed to be the good guys, so act like it.
On September 10 2011 05:24 Ko1tz wrote: There something I never understood about this terrorists, if they want to "do damage" and such, why the hell would they announce their intentions? it makes no sense, it will make the authorities be even MORE careful of a potential attack. Is there any other reason besides having people terrified (wich is already pretty bad)?
The word terrorist should give it away, terrorism isn't just about killing people, it's about causing disruption, making people change habits, causing terror. The IRA in the 80's in the UK were very very good at it.
One man's definition of terrorism is another man's definition of a freedom fighter.
Omg, I'm sick of seeing this stuff pop up every year. It has been 10 years and the news papers are still full of it . This is just another fear hype from the media who should be writing about the news, not just rehashing old stuff every year
If you own the govenment issue Countdown to death wall chart/sticker album now is the time to move the turban sticker in the Paranoi-o-meter™ from the box with a picture of a young man smoking a weird looking cigerette to the box with a picture of a dog on it's way to the vet.
I'm not leaving my house September 11. Call me a pussy or letting the terrorists win or some shit, but I am paranoid as fuck, and there's no way I'd risk my life.
On September 10 2011 06:03 Mohdoo wrote: I'm not leaving my house September 11. Call me a pussy or letting the terrorists win or some shit, but I am paranoid as fuck, and there's no way I'd risk my life.
Unless you work somewhere really important I doubt your house is any safer than your usual routine. If they're willing to go after random places you might go like a store or a gym then they're equally willing to just bomb your house. Neither seem likely.
Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization and because of this their goal is to spread fear and terror among the populace in an attempt to force change through fear/mass hysteria/ect. So just by causing us to fear potential attacks their mission is already partially accomplished since they instill the fear of that next attack. The bumped up security, hatred towards Arabic, and other responses are part of their goal.
What's the point in attacking on 9/11 when they know every agency will be on high alert? Al Qaeda feeds on fear and the unknown. They would be much more likely to attack today, or tomorrow, than on a day like 9/11.
On September 10 2011 05:01 Gorsameth wrote: My thought are this is just another haux to make people think they draconic measures taken against them and there liberties are worth the price.
I don't really think it's a "hoax". 1. Are the terrorists already caught apart of the conspiracy? 2. What do these conspirators gain in making USA safer other than the protection of its people?
On September 10 2011 05:01 Gorsameth wrote: My thought are this is just another haux to make people think they draconic measures taken against them and there liberties are worth the price.
They are worth the price. Just like anything in life, too much of anything (freedom) is a bad thing. Sometimes you have to sacrifice a little. If you consider the governments measures Draconian I wonder what you consider Iran's government.
On September 10 2011 05:01 Gorsameth wrote: My thought are this is just another haux to make people think they draconic measures taken against them and there liberties are worth the price.
I don't really think it's a "hoax". 1. Are the terrorists already caught apart of the conspiracy? 2. What do these conspirators gain in making USA safer other than the protection of its people?
remember those two wars that were for nothing but the profit of the people making "america safer" ?
On September 10 2011 05:01 Gorsameth wrote: My thought are this is just another haux to make people think they draconic measures taken against them and there liberties are worth the price.
I don't really think it's a "hoax". 1. Are the terrorists already caught apart of the conspiracy? 2. What do these conspirators gain in making USA safer other than the protection of its people?
remember those two wars that were for nothing but the profit of the people making "america safer" ?
yea..
What War besides the Iraq war are we talking about? The Afghan one was legitimate, when it began at least.
It's just sad as fuck really, you're supposed to be the good guys, so act like it.
That's a pretty naive way to look at it. You're making the generalization mistake as well.
I don't generalize or judge anyone but the U.S. state which is seperate from the individual citizen.
A good example is torture. If you ask an individual to torture someone and you know with 100% certainty this will save 1,000 lives, would you do it?
I would but if I was put in the same position except as a head of state and my option is to order this individual to torture this person to save 1,000 lives, would I do it?
No, I need to find another way to protect those lives as if one of the objectives of my theoretical state is to protect my citizens that objective doesn't take precedence over the objective to respect human rights
You can't expect people to act this principled but a state has to.
What the US has done has done as a result of 9/11 is nothing short of barbaric. If you ask me, they have far surpassed the horrific event on 9/11 with their revenge. Enjoy living with your fear.
3 people magically slip through security after it has been updated to the max? I don't think so. Even if they did, no one would be dumb enough to release it to the public.
On September 10 2011 05:01 Gorsameth wrote: My thought are this is just another haux to make people think they draconic measures taken against them and there liberties are worth the price.
I don't really think it's a "hoax". 1. Are the terrorists already caught apart of the conspiracy? 2. What do these conspirators gain in making USA safer other than the protection of its people?
remember those two wars that were for nothing but the profit of the people making "america safer" ?
yea..
What War besides the Iraq war are we talking about? The Afghan one was legitimate, when it began at least.
Arguably not, though it depends how you define "legitimate war".
Wow, so Ben Ladden, after he made 9/11, went to hide in mountains because he was tracked by army, But BenLadden, was then secretly plotting of re-attacking USA ten years later for the anniversary of what he just did... Later he died with that note in the pocket but some other guys saw that note and thought "hey, it's not because he's dead, we shouldn't do that ! Dieing in terrorist attack sounds like a nice plan !"... I'm sorry american intelligencies but this is too fucked up to be believable. Watch TV shows, you might get better ideas. I trully don't hope you're gonna blow another thing and that your next "bill of right" that'll trade freedom for security won't pass. I'm not buying that shit
It's just sad as fuck really, you're supposed to be the good guys, so act like it.
That's a pretty naive way to look at it. You're making the generalization mistake as well.
I would but if I was put in the same position except as a head of state and my option is to order this individual to torture this person to save 1,000 lives, would I do it?
No, I need to find another way to protect those lives as if one of the objectives of my theoretical state is to respect human rights that objective doesn't take precedence over the objective to protect my citizens.
You can't expect people to act this principled but a state has to.
The same argument can be applied to an individual who is obligated not to violate the rights of others and avoid causing harm, unless you don't believe individuals have such obligations .
Going through with it or not definitely depends on your political and ethical/moral beliefs though for both cases.
I don't think it would be any harder to argue that there is nothing wrong with expecting people to act as principled as a state, or the other way around, than it would be to argue that you can't.
It just comes down to how important things like individual rights are compared to the greater good, ends vs means, etc etc...
I'm not saying your beliefs are wrong, I'm just gonna say I'm not sure that you're right either.
On September 10 2011 06:44 Thrasymachus725 wrote: Enjoy living with your fear.
Enjoy living with your false, unjustified belief that I live in fear.
On September 10 2011 06:44 Thrasymachus725 wrote: What the US has done has done as a result of 9/11 is nothing short of barbaric. If you ask me, they have far surpassed the horrific event on 9/11 with their revenge. Enjoy living with your fear.
Really ? If this doesn't deserve a ban, I don't know what does.
For all the people complaining, would you rather the government not take action to stop a possible attack and/or warn the public? Like say... exactly what the administration did before 9/11 when they had information about the attack but thought it unlikely to occur? 3,000 people dying that you don't know may seem trivial to you, but it's not to 3,000 families, friends and loved ones.
As an American I'm perfectly willing to have my email looked at by some government agency if it means they may catch a terrorist and save families from going through the same pain experienced on 9/11. And lets get real, we live in a world where things aren't all hunky dory. Sometimes people have to do tough shit, and if the government needs to "torture" some terrorist intent on killing as many people as possible then go for it. Governments know this, it's the outraged populace that complain that we can't sing campfire songs and hold hands with Al Qaeda that don't get it. These people don't want friends, they don't even want us to leave them alone, they want us to burn.
On September 10 2011 06:44 Thrasymachus725 wrote: What the US has done has done as a result of 9/11 is nothing short of barbaric. If you ask me, they have far surpassed the horrific event on 9/11 with their revenge. Enjoy living with your fear.
Really ? If this doesn't deserve a ban, I don't know what does.
he deserves a ban because he has an alternate opinion to you? I don't see how that is fair.
shoot i didnt even realize i almost booked my flight back to school on the 11th. didnt they catch AQ in the act a few years ago on the east coast trying to do something on the anniversary?
On September 10 2011 05:05 klops wrote: i live in DC and everyone's quite on edge this weekend. that's all i'll say.
Isn't DC one of the most violent cities in the US? On average they should be more worried about being in a traffic accident or getting killed in a robbery.
God I am so bored with this whole 9/11 thing... christ 2900 people is not a large quantity nor percantage of the american people, abhorrent yes, terrible yes, but there is still 10 000 people dying for starvation every day and more than four times as many people die from murders just in the US.
Heck, Coconuts falling on people have killed more than Al Quade has in the US the last 10 years...
No disrespect for any Americans or whatnot whom are deeply saddened or emotionally invested in this, I can understand that some people are, but for someone who isn't american and has seen so much suffering and death in the world first hand I just find it hard to care when so few of the worlds richest people die when millions or poor die and nobody gives two shits.
It's just sad as fuck really, you're supposed to be the good guys, so act like it.
That's a pretty naive way to look at it. You're making the generalization mistake as well.
I would but if I was put in the same position except as a head of state and my option is to order this individual to torture this person to save 1,000 lives, would I do it?
No, I need to find another way to protect those lives as if one of the objectives of my theoretical state is to respect human rights that objective doesn't take precedence over the objective to protect my citizens.
You can't expect people to act this principled but a state has to.
The same argument can be applied to an individual who is obligated not to violate the rights of others and avoid causing harm, unless you don't believe individuals have such obligations .
Going through with it or not definitely depends on your political and ethical/moral beliefs though for both cases.
I don't think it would be any harder to argue that there is nothing wrong with expecting people to act as principled as a state, or the other way around, than it would be to argue that you can't.
I believe individual have such obligations, but I don't expect them to follow them to such extremes as I would expect states to.
And you're right it depends on your political, ethical and moral beliefs.
Just I thought the U.S. had certain beliefs about for example human rights that meant they would never do many of the things they did in fact do in the "war on terror".
My point is simply that for me and many others the view on America has unfortunately changed for the worse over the last 10 years.
And I find that sad because it all started with these scum of the earth murdering 3,000 innocent civilians.
On September 10 2011 07:05 Krehlmar wrote: God I am so bored with this whole 9/11 thing... christ 2900 people is not a large quantity nor percantage of the american people, abhorrent yes, terrible yes, but there is still 10 000 people dying for starvation every day and more than four times as many people die from murders just in the US.
Heck, Coconuts falling on people have killed more than Al Quade has in the US the last 10 years...
No disrespect for any Americans or whatnot whom are deeply saddened or emotionally invested in this, I can understand that some people are, but for someone who isn't american and has seen so much suffering and death in the world first hand I just find it hard to care when so few of the worlds richest people die when millions or poor die and nobody gives two shits.
Well people care about things they can relate to, obviously. Only like 80 (?) people died in Norway, but it's still on the news every now and again here in Denmark so long afterwards.
If someone you know dies you care more. For the same reason people care more when 2900 Americans die than if 10,000 Africans die. I really dislike the "but so many other people are dying why are you caring about so few" argument, because it's idiotic.
And yea they say this every year but nothing ever happens, terrorists havent really done much lately, they're not really that scary.
On September 10 2011 06:59 Craze wrote: For all the people complaining, would you rather the government not take action to stop a possible attack and/or warn the public? Like say... exactly what the administration did before 9/11 when they had information about the attack but thought it unlikely to occur? 3,000 people dying that you don't know may seem trivial to you, but it's not to 3,000 families, friends and loved ones.
As an American I'm perfectly willing to have my email looked at by some government agency if it means they may catch a terrorist and save families from going through the same pain experienced on 9/11. And lets get real, we live in a world where things aren't all hunky dory. Sometimes people have to do tough shit, and if the government needs to "torture" some terrorist intent on killing as many people as possible then go for it. Governments know this, it's the outraged populace that complain that we can't sing campfire songs and hold hands with Al Qaeda that don't get it. These people don't want friends, they don't even want us to leave them alone, they want us to burn.
Tens of thousands of people die in traffic accidents every year. Do you support mandatory alcohol detectors in cars and systems that prevent them from going faster than the speed limit?
These are arguably less drastic measures than reading email or airport patdowns, cost a fraction of what the US spends on counter-terrorism every year and would save tens of thousands of lives every year.
On September 10 2011 06:44 Thrasymachus725 wrote: What the US has done has done as a result of 9/11 is nothing short of barbaric. If you ask me, they have far surpassed the horrific event on 9/11 with their revenge. Enjoy living with your fear.
I'm sorry that we didn't wag our tail between our legs like your county would have done. In my opinion its much better to try to eliminate the problem (Al Qaeda) than to let them get away with thousands of murders and continue to grow as a terrorist group. If we want to grow as a world, we have to get rid of these terrorist groups.
It was either go after the source of the terrorist attacks or be cowards and let them grow as a terrorist group. You cant just ignore a problem (terrorist groups) and expect them to disappear.
On September 10 2011 06:59 Craze wrote: For all the people complaining, would you rather the government not take action to stop a possible attack and/or warn the public? Like say... exactly what the administration did before 9/11 when they had information about the attack but thought it unlikely to occur? 3,000 people dying that you don't know may seem trivial to you, but it's not to 3,000 families, friends and loved ones.
As an American I'm perfectly willing to have my email looked at by some government agency if it means they may catch a terrorist and save families from going through the same pain experienced on 9/11. And lets get real, we live in a world where things aren't all hunky dory. Sometimes people have to do tough shit, and if the government needs to "torture" some terrorist intent on killing as many people as possible then go for it. Governments know this, it's the outraged populace that complain that we can't sing campfire songs and hold hands with Al Qaeda that don't get it. These people don't want friends, they don't even want us to leave them alone, they want us to burn.
Tens of thousands of people die in traffic accidents every year. Do you support mandatory alcohol detectors in cars and systems that prevent them from going faster than the speed limit?
These are arguably less drastic measures than reading email or airport patdowns, cost a fraction of what the US spends on counter-terrorism every year and would save tens of thousands of lives every year.
I agree with hypercube, I don't mind having my email checked and I also don't mind having something installed in my car that would detect if I was intoxicated or not. Both of these things would save thousands of lives but some people care too much about their "freedom".
Too much freedom and we make the planet unlivable with overpopulation (right now anybody can plop out as many babies as they want and the government will support them) and innocent people will continue to die because stupid people will continue to do stupid things (people that probably don't even know what freedom is).
On September 10 2011 07:05 Krehlmar wrote: God I am so bored with this whole 9/11 thing... christ 2900 people is not a large quantity
What?
nor percantage of the american people, abhorrent yes, terrible yes, but there is still 10 000 people dying for starvation every day and more than four times as many people die from murders just in the US.
Heck, Coconuts falling on people have killed more than Al Quade has in the US the last 10 years...
I do not think so. Coconut trees do not grow everywhere in the U.S., only in the tropical-ish areas. If coconuts killed more people in the U.S. than Al Qaeda, I'd be really surprised.
No disrespect for any Americans or whatnot whom are deeply saddened or emotionally invested in this, I can understand that some people are, but for someone who isn't american and has seen so much suffering and death in the world first hand I just find it hard to care when so few of the worlds richest people die when millions or poor die and nobody gives two shits.
You think that the 3 000 or so people that died from the 9/11 terrorist attack are among the worlds richest people? That's how I am reading this, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way though, so moving on. It's not true that no one cares about starvation, I agree that a lot more could be done to stop it from happening though.
I understand that some people who are not from/live in the U.S. would care little or even not at all about the 9/11 terrorist attacks, but if a terrorist attack with equal to or greater magnitude of 9/11 were to happen in your country, then I'm sure it would invoke a lot of emotion.
This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
On September 10 2011 05:25 XeliN wrote: One of the real tragedies of /11 and the subsequent effects is how it has been used to evoke fear, anger, and strip away, in America in particular, but it resonates throughout Europe to a lessoned extent, our values and liberty.
War has been waged, torture justified and practised, people held without trial for years at a time, rights to privacy carved down. As a result of a small group of extremeists an entire religion, and culture has been villainised to the point where "muslim" "islamic" "arab" "middle-eastern" have gone from descriptions to accusations.
Thousands of innocent Americans were murdered by fanatics on 9/11. Tens of thousands more innocent citizens have been killed, tortured, wounded, lost members of their family, their homes, their livelihoods as a result of America's, and the Wests response to that event.
Although that said Modern Warfare 2 is a super fun cool game, so its swings and roundabouts i guess...
Simply have to agree 100% on this.
In the past I always held the U.S. as one of the most principled countries on liberty and rights.
Unfortunately the actions taken after 9/11 has changed that picture so much for me I would now rank them very low on those issues in comparison with the rest of western world.
It's just sad as fuck really, you're supposed to be the good guys, so act like it.
Fight terrorists but fight them correct.
Sounds like you both are way too invested in the media. Don't believe everything you hear.
On September 10 2011 07:11 magnaflow wrote: I wouldn't worry. I'm sure its the government blowing smoke up people asses
Even if the threat was legitimate which I highly doubt it is. If your going to worry about death and such, maybe you could eat right (not saying that you don't in particular but the US as a whole.) . Heart Disease kills SOOO many more people than fucking terrorism.
A good line from the bible. Even if you believe god or you don' t
" Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death (or through the darkest valley), I will fear no evil.."
Terrorism is a joke. I'd laugh at the a person trying / going to kill me. Call them a "sick" person. It is truly disgusting how people are to kill one another over beliefs. That includes the US and these so called terrorists.
"I cannot teach you violence, as I do not myself believe in it. I can only teach you not to bow your heads before any one even at the cost of your life."
On September 10 2011 07:16 hypercube wrote: Tens of thousands of people die in traffic accidents every year. Do you support mandatory alcohol detectors in cars and systems that prevent them from going faster than the speed limit?
These are arguably less drastic measures than reading email or airport patdowns, cost a fraction of what the US spends on counter-terrorism every year and would save tens of thousands of lives every year.
I'm sorry, I just don't see how you can equate the two instances. Yes more people die in traffic accidents. More people die in traffic accidents yearly than died at Pearl Harbor, does that mean we should have spent our money fighting bad drivers over fighting back against Japan in WW2?
If you let one attack go unpunished, it emboldens these fanatics to do more.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
If people held grudges against nations for every atrocity such as that the UK would have no ally on the planet. Did you forget about the whole British Empire? You must be bad because your ancestors did evil things.
See how weak that argument is?
The US has done shitty things yea, but I think the good has outweighed the bad by a fair margin.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
There's a difference between what the UK govt. did 100+ years ago, and what the US govt. does to this day. That said, i can also say "Look who's talking" and give you the history of Austro-Hungary and the Hapsburgs. Just saying.
Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
On September 10 2011 07:16 hypercube wrote: Tens of thousands of people die in traffic accidents every year. Do you support mandatory alcohol detectors in cars and systems that prevent them from going faster than the speed limit?
These are arguably less drastic measures than reading email or airport patdowns, cost a fraction of what the US spends on counter-terrorism every year and would save tens of thousands of lives every year.
I'm sorry, I just don't see how you can equate the two instances. Yes more people die in traffic accidents. More people die in traffic accidents yearly than died at Pearl Harbor, does that mean we should have spent our money fighting bad drivers over fighting back against Japan in WW2?
If you let one attack go unpunished, it emboldens these fanatics to do more.
I think he's implying that we should be less concerned about airport security, as there are far worse threats.
Airplane flights are less dangerous than the car rides to the airport. The problem is people are stupid and the worse the accident, the more we tend to fear/react to them. Less people die per car accident vs plane, but the car accidents are so common that they compensate.
I'm probably being unreasonable though. Planes are 12 ton flying hunks of metal accelerated by massive jet engines. Hijacking one is more of a danger to non-passengers as evidenced by 9-11.
So, in away, there is more of a reason to crack down on drunk drivers and safety regulations for cars, as opposed to airport security. But that's not entirely true.
It's just sad as fuck really, you're supposed to be the good guys, so act like it.
That's a pretty naive way to look at it. You're making the generalization mistake as well.
I would but if I was put in the same position except as a head of state and my option is to order this individual to torture this person to save 1,000 lives, would I do it?
No, I need to find another way to protect those lives as if one of the objectives of my theoretical state is to respect human rights that objective doesn't take precedence over the objective to protect my citizens.
You can't expect people to act this principled but a state has to.
The same argument can be applied to an individual who is obligated not to violate the rights of others and avoid causing harm, unless you don't believe individuals have such obligations .
Going through with it or not definitely depends on your political and ethical/moral beliefs though for both cases.
I don't think it would be any harder to argue that there is nothing wrong with expecting people to act as principled as a state, or the other way around, than it would be to argue that you can't.
I believe individual have such obligations, but I don't expect them to follow them to such extremes as I would expect states to.
And you're right it depends on your political, ethical and moral beliefs.
Just I thought the U.S. had certain beliefs about for example human rights that meant they would never do many of the things they did in fact do in the "war on terror".
My point is simply that for me and many others the view on America has unfortunately changed for the worse over the last 10 years.
And I find that sad because it all started with these scum of the earth murdering 3,000 innocent civilians.
A government, which is what you mean when you say "US" as you said earlier, is going to have varying beliefs depending on which government employees work for it, which for the US, change every year.
Once again, this is my opinion, but I just think it's naive to expect more from a government than you would the people working for it as if it's some higher entity than the individual parts that compose it.
Not to mention, it's not like everyone who did those things thought what they were doing was wrong and did them anyways. I'm sure of the few people who did said things thought they were doing the right thing (even if they weren't).
I agree with your overall point though, the foreign image of America has definitely declined in the past 10 years.
On September 10 2011 06:44 Thrasymachus725 wrote: What the US has done has done as a result of 9/11 is nothing short of barbaric. If you ask me, they have far surpassed the horrific event on 9/11 with their revenge. Enjoy living with your fear.
Really ? If this doesn't deserve a ban, I don't know what does.
he deserves a ban because he has an alternate opinion to you? I don't see how that is fair.
I don't know if he deserves a ban for it or not, but I highly doubt that's his reasoning for thinking he did. He bolded one part of it for a reason.
On September 10 2011 07:16 hypercube wrote: Tens of thousands of people die in traffic accidents every year. Do you support mandatory alcohol detectors in cars and systems that prevent them from going faster than the speed limit?
These are arguably less drastic measures than reading email or airport patdowns, cost a fraction of what the US spends on counter-terrorism every year and would save tens of thousands of lives every year.
I'm sorry, I just don't see how you can equate the two instances. Yes more people die in traffic accidents. More people die in traffic accidents yearly than died at Pearl Harbor, does that mean we should have spent our money fighting bad drivers over fighting back against Japan in WW2?
If you let one attack go unpunished, it emboldens these fanatics to do more.
As they say death is the great equalizer. It doesn't matter how it happened, you're just as dead either way. If your concern is saving lives I don't see how you can be against these measures. Do you hate freedom???
I kinda get what you're saying with Pearl Harbor. If you ignore terrorism it can become a huge problem, while traffic accidents will mostly stay the same or decline even if you leave them alone. But the real question is whether the last dollar you spent on counter-terrorism would have saved more lives if it was spent on traffic safety. And I think the question is quite clearly yes.
Plus there's a way to do this without spending any money on it. Get a ticket for speeding or DUI, lose your licence until you have one of these systems installed at your own cost. Let the speeder and drunken-driver terrorists pay for the fight
On September 10 2011 07:40 RaFeStaR wrote: Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
Iraq is about 50x worse than it was in 1991 lol. When will it be 20x better than it was in 1991? In a century? Also, the self-righteousness and jingoism in your post is quite mind-numbing.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
If people held grudges against nations for every atrocity such as that the UK would have no ally on the planet. Did you forget about the whole British Empire? You must be bad because your ancestors did evil things.
See how weak that argument is?
The US has done shitty things yea, but I think the good has outweighed the bad by a fair margin.
We are holding grudges against "Terrorists' and the countries that hold these. Are they born bad people?... The media portrays it that way.
Yep truly killing THOUSANDS of innocent or iragi's and afgani's is truly outweighed because we help are so free back here at home by doing so. Thats all so fucking subjective, and I believe if you think/(committing the act itself) that killing another human being, you are mentally sick and a psychopath. No matter the reason.
It's pathetic how many people have crawled out of their dark corners to begin mastrubating to this horrible event. Ooh yeah baby, you know how i like my anti-Americanism, drenched in blood.
It only takes a few bad seeds to ruin any discussion. Just take a look at the Libya thread. Maybe 3-4 idiots that turned the entire topic to shit. Isn't gonna take long before we get all those pro-science youtube clips about how if you enlarge the pictures you can see Bush himself setting the towers on fire.
Ooh yeah and im the crazy one because i trust TEH MEDIA. It's much better to build a reality based on nothing but your own speculation and that thing your friend said when you were high.
Yeah we get it, you hate America, you hate everything America stands for even though the clothes you wear, the internet you are using and that music you like so much are all just transported from the American culture to the rest of the world.
But how about this? How about you let these 3000 people rest in piece? How about you don't make fun of their deaths because you feel the need to place yourself in the center of some world wide Illuminati conspiracy?
Next week the US is gonna announce something silly and you can jump on that. Maybe even tommorow. But if you have an ounce of decency in you, leave your childish conspiracy stories out of this topic and stop making fun of 3000 dead people for little other reason then being bored.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
There's a difference between what the UK govt. did 100+ years ago, and what the US govt. does to this day. That said, i can also say "Look who's talking" and give you the history of Austro-Hungary and the Hapsburgs. Just saying.
I know, but he also brought native Americans so I thought 19th century was fair game.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Hey man, I can totally play the Blame Game. How about the all the Indians or Chinese that you fucked over? Especially when your great, great grandparents probably had nothing to do with slave trading or forcing the Chinese to buy opium or making Indians 2nd class citizens in their own country. However, since your an Englishman I'm going to mindlessly lump all of you together and make you responsible for all the shit that your ancestors probably never did. I'm sure my great, great grandparents had plenty of African slaves on their tiny piece of shit farms in Romania and Poland. Especially when it was so easy to buy and house slaves when you weren't a filthy rich plantation owner.
On September 10 2011 07:40 RaFeStaR wrote: Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
Iraq is about 50x worse than it was in 1991 lol. When will it be 20x better than it was in 1991? In a century? Also, the self-righteousness and in your post is quite mind-numbing.
How is it worse? Having a country rebuilt with principles and security is worse? Also, shout jingoism all you want, but truth is truth.
On September 10 2011 07:40 RaFeStaR wrote: Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
Iraq is about 50x worse than it was in 1991 lol. When will it be 20x better than it was in 1991? In a century? Also, the self-righteousness and jingoism in your post is quite mind-numbing.
ya know i hear this alot from anti-war folks. i'd love it if you backed it up with stats, or perhaps you have been overseeing the war in iraq yourself? or are you in a government position over there? i'm just wondering how you qualify it being 50 times worse than 1991
On September 10 2011 07:46 zalz wrote: It's pathetic how many people have crawled out of their dark corners to begin mastrubating to this horrible event. Ooh yeah baby, you know how i like my anti-Americanism, drenched in blood.
It only takes a few bad seeds to ruin any discussion. Just take a look at the Libya thread. Maybe 3-4 idiots that turned the entire topic to shit. Isn't gonna take long before we get all those pro-science youtube clips about how if you enlarge the pictures you can see Bush himself setting the towers on fire.
Ooh yeah and im the crazy one because i trust TEH MEDIA. It's much better to build a reality based on nothing but your own speculation and that thing your friend said when you were high.
Yeah we get it, you hate America, you hate everything America stands for even though the clothes you wear, the internet you are using and that music you like so much are all just transported from the American culture to the rest of the world.
But how about this? How about you let these 3000 people rest in piece? How about you don't make fun of their deaths because you feel the need to place yourself in the center of some world wide Illuminati conspiracy?
Next week the US is gonna announce something silly and you can jump on that. Maybe even tommorow. But if you have an ounce of decency in you, leave your childish conspiracy stories out of this topic and stop making fun of 3000 dead people for little other reason then being bored.
I don't know if Iraq is 50x worse than it was in 91. Maybe if you go by the numbers, GDP/capita etc. But would you rather live in Iraq in '91 when some insane son of a dictator could mow down cars from an attack helicopter or live in a nation that can determine its own future. Times have gotten worse for them sure, but I would think now they have the opportunity to make a better life for themselves.
The same can be said for the Libyan people, although they rose up and took it on their own with much less outside interference. I'm not justifying Iraq, I think it was the wrong battleground to fight a war that needed to be fought somewhere in that region. But what's done is done and we aren't just leaving after killing Saddam and finding no WMD's (woops). At least the US is trying to help the people rebuild.
On September 10 2011 07:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:40 RaFeStaR wrote: Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
Iraq is about 50x worse than it was in 1991 lol. When will it be 20x better than it was in 1991? In a century? Also, the self-righteousness and in your post is quite mind-numbing.
How is it worse? Having a country rebuilt with principles and security is worse? Also, shout jingoism all you want, but truth is truth.
You obviously haven't been to Iraq. It is a shit hole, you can ask your fellow Americans. (LOL)
On September 10 2011 07:46 zalz wrote: It's pathetic how many people have crawled out of their dark corners to begin mastrubating to this horrible event. Ooh yeah baby, you know how i like my anti-Americanism, drenched in blood.
Ooh yeah and im the crazy one because i trust TEH MEDIA. It's much better to build a reality based on nothing but your own speculation and that thing your friend said when you were high.
Yeah, cause pointing out that fear of terrorism is overblown is the same as "masturbating to this horrible event". Do you realize how insulting that is?
Next week the US is gonna announce something silly and you can jump on that. Maybe even tommorow. But if you have an ounce of decency in you, leave your childish conspiracy stories out of this topic and stop making fun of 3000 dead people for little other reason then being bored.
On September 10 2011 07:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:40 RaFeStaR wrote: Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
Iraq is about 50x worse than it was in 1991 lol. When will it be 20x better than it was in 1991? In a century? Also, the self-righteousness and in your post is quite mind-numbing.
How is it worse? Having a country rebuilt with principles and security is worse? Also, shout jingoism all you want, but truth is truth.
Let's see. In 1991, there was actually security. There were actually things like functional power grids and people actually had clean water which is pretty difficult to get a hold of over there nowadays, there was a significant well-educated middle class, well-ordered educational and medical systems and many other services, a booming economy, large-scale infrastructural development, a GDP that was higher than it is now (given it had nearly half the population at that and 20 years ago), order and peace, secular social and political ideals (which are now being overrun by Iranian influence and religious fanaticism), and you're telling me now, when it's worse off than Egypt, a country it used to give quite a bit of welfare to, that it's better than it was from 20 years ago? You are truly a joker .
You are correct, I am telling the truth. Truth is truth *shrugs*
On September 10 2011 07:44 FearTheReaperMan wrote: Thats all so fucking subjective, and I believe if you think/(committing the act itself) that killing another human being, you are mentally sick and a psychopath. No matter the reason.
If a man walked up to you with a gun and said "i have been told by god to kill you" would you simply allow him to pull the trigger?
Or might you think about fighting back and stopping him, maybe even killing him to protect yourself if that's what it takes?
Sure these are subjective arguments, some people believe that violence is never a solution to a problem. I believe that violence is a last resort, but in some cases you have to make use of it to get something done that is otherwise impossible yet absolutely necessary.
On September 10 2011 07:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:40 RaFeStaR wrote: Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
Iraq is about 50x worse than it was in 1991 lol. When will it be 20x better than it was in 1991? In a century? Also, the self-righteousness and in your post is quite mind-numbing.
How is it worse? Having a country rebuilt with principles and security is worse? Also, shout all you want, but truth is truth.
Let's see. In 1991, there was actually security. There were actually things like functional power grids and people actually had clean water which is pretty difficult to get a hold of over there nowadays, there was a significant well-educated middle class, well-ordered educational and medical systems and many other services, a booming economy, large-scale infrastructural development, a GDP that was higher than it is now (given it had nearly half the population at that and 20 years ago), order and peace, secular social and political ideals (which are now being overrun by Iranian influence and religious fanaticism), and you're telling me now, when it's worse off than Egypt, a country it used to give quite a bit of welfare to, that it's better than it was from 20 years ago? You are truly a joker .
You are correct, I am telling the truth. Truth is truth *shrugs*
So is that la-la land before or after they started harboring terrorists?
On September 10 2011 07:53 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:49 RaFeStaR wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:40 RaFeStaR wrote: Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
Iraq is about 50x worse than it was in 1991 lol. When will it be 20x better than it was in 1991? In a century? Also, the self-righteousness and in your post is quite mind-numbing.
How is it worse? Having a country rebuilt with principles and security is worse? Also, shout all you want, but truth is truth.
Let's see. In 1991, there was actually security. There were actually things like functional power grids and people actually had clean water which is pretty difficult to get a hold of over there nowadays, there was a significant well-educated middle class, well-ordered educational and medical systems and many other services, a booming economy, large-scale infrastructural development, a GDP that was higher than it is now (given it had nearly half the population at that and 20 years ago), order and peace, secular social and political ideals (which are now being overrun by Iranian influence and religious fanaticism), and you're telling me now, when it's worse off than Egypt, a country it used to give quite a bit of welfare to, that it's better than it was from 20 years ago? You are truly a joker .
You are correct, I am telling the truth. Truth is truth *shrugs*
So is that la-la land before or after they started harboring terrorists?
HAHAHAHA!!! Okay, so let me get this straight. You still believe the bs in the media (that has been admitted to be bs) about them having ties to Al Qaeda? Let me guess, you also believe they have WMDs, am I right? Oh my god. You just lost any credibility you had.
Times have gotten worse for them sure, but I would think now they have the opportunity to make a better life for themselves.
Unfortunately, that is quite false lol. The only thing that could have possibly improved theoretically is the political scene, and given there's still partially a deadlock since the March 2010 'elections' which were known to be rife with fraud and crackdowns still by the government against even perceived protest to the government, I don't think it has improved. Then when you compare the current regime which does nothing to work for the people and build up the country, and the previous one which prioritized that, then yeah, it's actually quite worse. Not to mention the ruling party (Islamic Dawa) was founded as a Shi'a Islamist terror group lol.
So basically, there really is nothing that can be said to justify what's been done. Apologetics isn't the way to go.
Libya is a different story. It was not impoverished by 12 years of sanctions pushed and enforced by the US on literally... everything to and from the country, followed up by 7 years of total war and occupation, meaning that it isn't something you would think was out of post-apocalyptic fiction at the sight of it, but rather, the social, economic, and infrastructural, damage has not been overly significant. So, there is hope in the Libyan scenario.
This topic is pretty difficult depending on witch side of the story you believe. The official version is pretty shaky but believed by a large majorities, the "revised" version is still very controversial because never admitted officially. There will always be high confusion between posters because of the total antagonism in this stories. I've dug deep enough in the subject to have my own opinion but won't try to convince anyone to watch hours and hours of videos made by various engineers and architects around the world, because everyone is free to believe what he wants and if he's curious enough, I'll find by himself. I really hope nothing wrong will happen on 11th. I cross my fingers. americans FIGHTING !!
It's impossible to have a thread on TL discussing terrorism without all the loonies coming out of the woodwork with their paranoid conspiracy theories. It's really just sad, I don't know what else to say about it.
Anyway, I hope you all in DC or NY stay safe. Live your lives as normally as possible, don't let fear get to you.
On September 10 2011 07:53 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:49 RaFeStaR wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:40 RaFeStaR wrote: Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
Iraq is about 50x worse than it was in 1991 lol. When will it be 20x better than it was in 1991? In a century? Also, the self-righteousness and in your post is quite mind-numbing.
How is it worse? Having a country rebuilt with principles and security is worse? Also, shout all you want, but truth is truth.
Let's see. In 1991, there was actually security. There were actually things like functional power grids and people actually had clean water which is pretty difficult to get a hold of over there nowadays, there was a significant well-educated middle class, well-ordered educational and medical systems and many other services, a booming economy, large-scale infrastructural development, a GDP that was higher than it is now (given it had nearly half the population at that and 20 years ago), order and peace, secular social and political ideals (which are now being overrun by Iranian influence and religious fanaticism), and you're telling me now, when it's worse off than Egypt, a country it used to give quite a bit of welfare to, that it's better than it was from 20 years ago? You are truly a joker .
You are correct, I am telling the truth. Truth is truth *shrugs*
So is that la-la land before or after they started harboring terrorists?
HAHAHAHA!!! Okay, so let me get this straight. You still believe the bs in the media (that has been admitted to be bs) about them having ties to Al Qaeda? Let me guess, you also believe they have WMDs, am I right? Oh my god. You just lost any credibility you had.
Times have gotten worse for them sure, but I would think now they have the opportunity to make a better life for themselves.
Unfortunately, that is quite false lol. The only thing that could have possibly improved theoretically is the political scene, and given there's still partially a deadlock since the March 2010 'elections' which were known to be rife with fraud and crackdowns still by the government against even perceived protest to the government, I don't think it has improved. Then when you compare the current regime which does nothing to work for the people and build up the country, and the previous one which prioritized that, then yeah, it's actually quite worse. Not to mention the ruling party (Islamic Dawa) was founded as a Shi'a Islamist terror group lol.
So basically, there really is nothing that can be said to justify what's been done. Apologetics isn't the way to go.
Who's apologizing? Saddam's Iraq committed genocide against namely the Kurds and Shia Muslims using bio and chemical weapons. I know you picked the convenient date of 1991, because that is when Desert Strike 1 ended and the UN coalition restored Kuwait to its original borders.(not to mention Saddam, as he was retreating, set hundreds of Kuwait oil wells on fire, causing a disastrous loss of economy for Kuwait). But do you care about the millions of his own people that he killed? Or are they just made up by the media? You can't, with a reasoned investigation of Iraq and Hussein, say that it was a stable, orderly, and good place. There are tons of reasons I haven't even included.
On September 10 2011 05:00 AxelTVx wrote: I think it's sickening to think that the Al Qaeda's would stoop so low as to make everyone remember the travesty that had happened 10 years ago. What are your thoughts on this issue that may occur?
You write about Al Qaeda like they're regular guys. Ofcourse they will " stoop so low as to make everyone remember the travesty that had happened 10 years ago", they are the ones that did it! They are fanatical fundamentalist terrorist that hate America and the west more than anything. They would drop an atom bomb on America if they ever got the chance.
ont: I hope they catch them.
I've read that Al Qaeda wouldn't want to nuke the U.S, even if they could.
I think people buy into some shit too easily, America isn't rounding up every Muslim and asking them if they're a terrorist via torture even though some people like to make it seem that way.
Now for the iffy bit of my post, the USA needs to take threats of terrorism VERY seriously and the usualy suspects are Muslims, not because it is a stereotype but because the extremists we are at war with are Muslim, so it makes sense that the majority of detainees are Muslim.
Now the Media likes to blow things up for political gain, I am a very liberal person but I can admit that people would use the patriot act to make Bush look like a shit bag.
Anyways, I think that America is a great country and the people who work in the CIA aren't what the movies make them out to be btw. They are an organization with limited resources.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
I don't talk, the politicians do, of whom, we don't have say in what they do..most normal citizens are just brainwashed via BBC/Sky telling lies/bias view on war etc.
On September 10 2011 05:01 Gorsameth wrote: My thought are this is just another haux to make people think they draconic measures taken against them and there liberties are worth the price.
Word... All the terrorist boogeyman rhetoric and hype is a ploy to make us give up our liberties for the illusion of security.
On September 10 2011 07:40 RaFeStaR wrote: Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
I hope your joking, dropping depleted uranium bombs on countries (iraq, afghanistan) isn't rebuilding it, It's punishing it for not being America's bitch, those countries are like tenfold worse than they were before foreign invasion. Get a history lesson and check out Obama Nation part 2, stop listening to Glenn Beck on FOX News, fml.
I really don't get why people think this is just a plan by the government to inspire fear. That would imply the media is a subject to the government.
What sounds much more likely to me is that the government is dependent on the media, which makes the above impossible unless the media wants to inspire the fear.
The media is just selling a story they know will sell. Proft-based. Simple as that imo.
On September 10 2011 07:59 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:56 RaFeStaR wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:53 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:49 RaFeStaR wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On September 10 2011 07:40 RaFeStaR wrote: Why is it that whenever anything controversial is said regarding america(ns) certain people have to poke a stick? It's almost as if some of you condone terrorists killing innocent civilians. We do not provoke, we retaliate with force, and being the big jerks that we are, after we make you pay for your horrible actions, we rebuild your country and make it 20x better than it was before.
Iraq is about 50x worse than it was in 1991 lol. When will it be 20x better than it was in 1991? In a century? Also, the self-righteousness and in your post is quite mind-numbing.
How is it worse? Having a country rebuilt with principles and security is worse? Also, shout all you want, but truth is truth.
Let's see. In 1991, there was actually security. There were actually things like functional power grids and people actually had clean water which is pretty difficult to get a hold of over there nowadays, there was a significant well-educated middle class, well-ordered educational and medical systems and many other services, a booming economy, large-scale infrastructural development, a GDP that was higher than it is now (given it had nearly half the population at that and 20 years ago), order and peace, secular social and political ideals (which are now being overrun by Iranian influence and religious fanaticism), and you're telling me now, when it's worse off than Egypt, a country it used to give quite a bit of welfare to, that it's better than it was from 20 years ago? You are truly a joker .
You are correct, I am telling the truth. Truth is truth *shrugs*
So is that la-la land before or after they started harboring terrorists?
HAHAHAHA!!! Okay, so let me get this straight. You still believe the bs in the media (that has been admitted to be bs) about them having ties to Al Qaeda? Let me guess, you also believe they have WMDs, am I right? Oh my god. You just lost any credibility you had.
Times have gotten worse for them sure, but I would think now they have the opportunity to make a better life for themselves.
Unfortunately, that is quite false lol. The only thing that could have possibly improved theoretically is the political scene, and given there's still partially a deadlock since the March 2010 'elections' which were known to be rife with fraud and crackdowns still by the government against even perceived protest to the government, I don't think it has improved. Then when you compare the current regime which does nothing to work for the people and build up the country, and the previous one which prioritized that, then yeah, it's actually quite worse. Not to mention the ruling party (Islamic Dawa) was founded as a Shi'a Islamist terror group lol.
So basically, there really is nothing that can be said to justify what's been done. Apologetics isn't the way to go.
Who's apologizing? Saddam's Iraq committed genocide against namely the Kurds and Shia Muslims using bio and chemical weapons. I know you picked the convenient date of 1991, because that is when Desert Strike 1 ended and the UN coalition restored Kuwait to its original borders.(not to mention Saddam, as he was retreating, set hundreds of Kuwait oil wells on fire, causing a disastrous loss of economy for Kuwait). But do you care about the millions of his own people that he killed? Or are they just made up by the media? You can't, with a reasoned investigation of Iraq and Hussein, say that it was a stable, orderly, and good place. There are tons of reasons I haven't even included.
I picked 1991 because that's when the sanctions on literally everything started, for the stated reason of cleaning up the chemical weapons that were given from the US govt. at that. The problem is the Iraqis complied immediately, so why did they remain, and for 12 years? I can only imagine that the scale of sanctions on say Iran is negligible in comparison is that revival of Russia in the UN and the rise of China. When the USSR was in the process of collapse in 89-91, it allowed the US to gain quite an unprecedented foothold in world affairs. Iran still enjoys robust economic and infrastructural growth despite the sanctions, to say the very least.
He killed millions of people? Do you have anything at all to substantiate that? The figure of Kurdish deaths is about a tenth of a million, and mind you, that figure came from the Kurds, so it's not exactly reliable. Shi'a deaths have no set figure, but quite lower than even that figure. The ones killed though were perpetrators as described in the next paragraph, or unfortunate collateral.
The issue is that during the Iran-Iraq War, Kurdish partisans and Iraqi Shia' religious fundamentalists supporting Iran in the hope of establishing an Islamist state took up arms and fought against Iraq and the Iraqi military (the Kurds were also sneaking Iranian soldiers into the country, as if not enough treason was already being committed). I don't mean to sound harsh, but when people are attacking your citizens and your military, I don't think the response is to high-five them. That's just my opinion, but I can look at my own US history and I think the response taken by the Iraqis was a lot more humane than Uncle Sam exterminating the native peoples of this country's current territory because he wanted more land (see Manifest Destiny and policies regarding the American Indians).
We can talk all day about what the best response would be, but if the US bordered China by land, half of the American population was Chinese, some of whom were hardcore Chinese hypernationalists, the US and China went to war, and those Chinese-American nationalists were attacking other Americans and the US military, I highly doubt the US govt. wouldn't retaliate. In fact, I'm quite certain they would make Operation Rolling Thunder looks like child's play.
Basically, you're trying to claim that because the most dire years of war were not stable for a country fighting with a neighboring country, it was never stable and ordered. That's an extremely illogical comment. That's like saying because Poland was conquered in WW2 and was one of the main areas of fighting between USSR and Germany, Poland never, ever was stable. Quite ridiculous to say such a thing.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
I don't talk, the politicians do, of whom, we don't have say in what they do..most normal citizens are just brainwashed via BBC/Sky telling lies/bias view on war etc.
And your answer to that is blaming people for stuff that happened 100 to 200 years ago?
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
I don't talk, the politicians do, of whom, we don't have say in what they do..most normal citizens are just brainwashed via BBC/Sky telling lies/bias view on war etc.
And your answer to that is blaming people for stuff that happened 100 to 200 years ago?
Wait, your referring to slavery/us controlling the US? Either way, how can I respond to something i have no control in? We no longer have colonization, atleast nowhere near on the scale the US has (NATO/UN controls basically everything).
On September 10 2011 07:46 zalz wrote: It's pathetic how many people have crawled out of their dark corners to begin mastrubating to this horrible event. Ooh yeah baby, you know how i like my anti-Americanism, drenched in blood.
It only takes a few bad seeds to ruin any discussion. Just take a look at the Libya thread. Maybe 3-4 idiots that turned the entire topic to shit. Isn't gonna take long before we get all those pro-science youtube clips about how if you enlarge the pictures you can see Bush himself setting the towers on fire.
Ooh yeah and im the crazy one because i trust TEH MEDIA. It's much better to build a reality based on nothing but your own speculation and that thing your friend said when you were high.
Yeah we get it, you hate America, you hate everything America stands for even though the clothes you wear, the internet you are using and that music you like so much are all just transported from the American culture to the rest of the world.
But how about this? How about you let these 3000 people rest in piece? How about you don't make fun of their deaths because you feel the need to place yourself in the center of some world wide Illuminati conspiracy?
Next week the US is gonna announce something silly and you can jump on that. Maybe even tommorow. But if you have an ounce of decency in you, leave your childish conspiracy stories out of this topic and stop making fun of 3000 dead people for little other reason then being bored.
Thank you very much for this post. While your tone is a little agressive which is a little iffy on my end, it is still a great post that is 100% true. Good day all and stay healthy this weekend!
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
I don't talk, the politicians do, of whom, we don't have say in what they do..most normal citizens are just brainwashed via BBC/Sky telling lies/bias view on war etc.
And your answer to that is blaming people for stuff that happened 100 to 200 years ago?
Wait, your referring to slavery/us controlling the US? Either way, how can I respond to something i have no control in? We no longer have colonization, atleast nowhere near on the scale the US has (NATO/UN controls basically everything).
He was talking about you criticizing the US for what they did when they "stole native land and committed genocide before that" when the UK was just as bad if not worse because they had been doing such things before America even existed.
Cmon man =/ not that difficult. Read the convo again.
There is some very interesting information given out by engineers and architects regarding the collapse of the world trade center buildings. If you watch the full movie they do a full rundown of the comparison between controlled demolitions and the collapse of the world trade center buildings.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
I don't talk, the politicians do, of whom, we don't have say in what they do..most normal citizens are just brainwashed via BBC/Sky telling lies/bias view on war etc.
And your answer to that is blaming people for stuff that happened 100 to 200 years ago?
Wait, your referring to slavery/us controlling the US? Either way, how can I respond to something i have no control in? We no longer have colonization, atleast nowhere near on the scale the US has (NATO/UN controls basically everything).
He was talking about you criticizing the US for what they did when they "stole native land and committed genocide before that" when the UK was just as bad if not worse because they had been doing such things before America even existed.
Cmon man =/ not that difficult. Read the convo again.
Ahh apologies, well American right now are effectively the terrorists themselves in far too much power, I'm just trying to get across that the average delusional american thinks they have innocent leaders, when they've commited more atrocities than Bin Laden "supposedly did".
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
I don't talk, the politicians do, of whom, we don't have say in what they do..most normal citizens are just brainwashed via BBC/Sky telling lies/bias view on war etc.
And your answer to that is blaming people for stuff that happened 100 to 200 years ago?
Wait, your referring to slavery/us controlling the US? Either way, how can I respond to something i have no control in? We no longer have colonization, atleast nowhere near on the scale the US has (NATO/UN controls basically everything).
He was talking about you criticizing the US for what they did when they "stole native land and committed genocide before that" when the UK was just as bad if not worse because they had been doing such things before America even existed.
Cmon man =/ not that difficult. Read the convo again.
Ahh apologies, well American right now are effectively the terrorists themselves in far too much power, I'm just trying to get across that the average delusional american thinks they have innocent leaders, when they've commited more atrocities than Bin Laden "supposedly did".
The average American I know thinks our leaders are retarded, kind of like the average person from any country would think unless they have an exceptionally beloved leader (at least if they're from the opposite party since a lot of people tend to be fanboys of one party or another).
What large group of Americans have you met that you're basing this on?
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
I don't talk, the politicians do, of whom, we don't have say in what they do..most normal citizens are just brainwashed via BBC/Sky telling lies/bias view on war etc.
And your answer to that is blaming people for stuff that happened 100 to 200 years ago?
Wait, your referring to slavery/us controlling the US? Either way, how can I respond to something i have no control in? We no longer have colonization, atleast nowhere near on the scale the US has (NATO/UN controls basically everything).
He was talking about you criticizing the US for what they did when they "stole native land and committed genocide before that" when the UK was just as bad if not worse because they had been doing such things before America even existed.
Cmon man =/ not that difficult. Read the convo again.
Ahh apologies, well American right now are effectively the terrorists themselves in far too much power, I'm just trying to get across that the average delusional american thinks they have innocent leaders, when they've commited more atrocities than Bin Laden "supposedly did".
Though for whatever reason the CIA stopped holding 9/11 against bin Laden years back, his crimes far surpass 9/11, mind you. Also, it is quite an obvious statement to say that that most powerful state in the world is capable of far, far more atrocity than a man and some hundreds of his pals. In addition, don't call the US terroristic as some users on this forum find that quite offensive and mods will not be happy. I see you are disillusioned with some of the self-righteousness and nationalism from the US (and I'm assuming your own nation as well), but the word "terrorist" has abnormally strong connotations in the US and its use is perceived as one of the most demeaning insults to a political, paramilitary, or social entity.
Also, while I've known quite a few nationalists, I've also known plenty of people who think the govt. does bs and isn't always up to the holiest things. The problem is the latter group is sometimes prone to fall into the former when the propaganda kicks into overdrive. The terribly immune group, though, is the group that just doesn't give a shit about political crap, no matter what someone says or mentions. This, imo, is the best group, as they don't stress themselves arguing about the religious belief of whether the govt. is immaculately holy or whether it's full of shit a fair portion of the time.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
I don't talk, the politicians do, of whom, we don't have say in what they do..most normal citizens are just brainwashed via BBC/Sky telling lies/bias view on war etc.
And your answer to that is blaming people for stuff that happened 100 to 200 years ago?
Wait, your referring to slavery/us controlling the US? Either way, how can I respond to something i have no control in? We no longer have colonization, atleast nowhere near on the scale the US has (NATO/UN controls basically everything).
He was talking about you criticizing the US for what they did when they "stole native land and committed genocide before that" when the UK was just as bad if not worse because they had been doing such things before America even existed.
Cmon man =/ not that difficult. Read the convo again.
Ahh apologies, well American right now are effectively the terrorists themselves in far too much power, I'm just trying to get across that the average delusional american thinks they have innocent leaders, when they've commited more atrocities than Bin Laden "supposedly did".
I'm sure you've met many Americans, especially when you live 1000s of miles across the ocean. You know that we Americans are normal people too and not some stupid hillbillies that your media keeps portraying us as.
On September 10 2011 07:22 Ryfje wrote: This is such bs propaganda, I can't believe some people actually for one read news from ABC, It's all hyped up stories, when is security never on "watch", the CIA has all the information they need and more, and they are the real people to worry about irregardless. That being said, I hope nothing bad happens on september 11th, although nobody tends to remember the Chile 1973 9/11 where America committed acts as bad/worse to the chilean people/president, oh not to mention stealing native land and committing genocide before that and controlling the world currently via colonization. My two cents, peace.
Look who's talking
I don't talk, the politicians do, of whom, we don't have say in what they do..most normal citizens are just brainwashed via BBC/Sky telling lies/bias view on war etc.
And your answer to that is blaming people for stuff that happened 100 to 200 years ago?
Wait, your referring to slavery/us controlling the US? Either way, how can I respond to something i have no control in? We no longer have colonization, atleast nowhere near on the scale the US has (NATO/UN controls basically everything).
He was talking about you criticizing the US for what they did when they "stole native land and committed genocide before that" when the UK was just as bad if not worse because they had been doing such things before America even existed.
Cmon man =/ not that difficult. Read the convo again.
Ahh apologies, well American right now are effectively the terrorists themselves in far too much power, I'm just trying to get across that the average delusional american thinks they have innocent leaders, when they've commited more atrocities than Bin Laden "supposedly did".
The moment you mentionned Native Americans 99% of your audience tuned out. And the other one percent agreed with you in the first place.
Why does every single thread that has anything to do with politics turn into a bash war of anti-america vs pro-america?
You can't walk into one of these threads without a million idiots being like "OH ITS THE GOVERNMENT. FUCK THE US GOVERNMENT THE MEDIA ONLY TELLS LIES"
People don't trust government for the sake of not trusting the government. I'm not going to act like governments (not only US) do some stuff that isn't shady as hell, but you must be fucking insane if you think that any government would kill 3000 of their own people in order to invade a country. I'm also not saying that these threats are without a doubt real, I'd just like it better if all the conspiracy theorists would spew their own 'intelligence' and 'understanding' of the government somewhere else
on topic I pray nothing will become of these threats.
I look at the OP and look down expecting a conversation about how this could never happen, how law enforcement is already alerted or it's just rampant speculation.
Instead I see posters using an American tragedy as an excuse to start bashing the United States.
Really disappointed TL. Can't we stay relevant to the topic and not derail into senseless hate?
Probably going to be an attack on public transportation, just like most other foreign terrorist attacks (think 9/11 (plane hijackings), london bus bomb, madrid subway bomb).
On September 10 2011 09:31 Gamegene wrote: I look at the OP and look down expecting a conversation about how this could never happen, how law enforcement is already alerted or it's just rampant speculation.
Instead I see posters using an American tragedy as an excuse to start bashing the United States.
Really disappointed TL. Can't we stay relevant to the topic and not derail into senseless hate?
Absolutely not, because many people on the internet have inflated egos so think that they know everything about everybody. They can't ever be wrong, especially when they live 1000s of miles from places they've never been too.
There is no need of conspiracy theories. Learn the facts and think with your head, without the influence of biased news reports. Go young padawan and find the truth. And after all the facts you've discovered ask yourself this question, which party's are profiting over all these wars, fear mongering and terrorist attacks.
Sad thing is it doesn't matter what you believe and who is right or wrong. The US hasn't been in peace for 5 years in a row ever since their entire history, whatever will happen will happen, it's just a matter of time. Terrorists, Communists, Dictators, what ever. I feel sorry for innocent people living in the states, it's like what George Carlin said "When you're born in this world you've been given a ticket to the freakshow, and when you're born in America you're given a front row seat." Just my two cents.
Fucking terrorists -___- They have nothing better to do in life rather than getting brainwashed by their leader like Osama and suicide their lives and killing innocence for their stupid creed?
Only in TL can any thread about the USA or China end up in a relentless bashing by it's holier than thou posters. Even when the thread concerns an event that resulted in the deaths of countless civilians.
Heck if the Japanese tsunami happened in either of these two countries somewhere past page 5 it would probably degenerate into this BS.
It sucks when the attacks are on your home soil doesn't it?
I hate terrorism but hate grows hate. USA has been attacking countries all over the world, causing civilian deaths and tearing families, homes etc apart, for their cause. Al Qaeda is doing the same, for their causes, though with way more limited supplies.
On September 10 2011 09:41 aepal wrote: There is no need of conspiracy theories. Learn the facts and think with your head, without the influence of biased news reports. Go young padawan and find the truth. And after all the facts you've discovered ask yourself this question, which party's are profiting over all these wars, fear mongering and terrorist attacks.
Sad thing is it doesn't matter what you believe and who is right or wrong. The US hasn't been in peace for 5 years in a row ever since their entire history, whatever will happen will happen, it's just a matter of time. Terrorists, Communists, Dictators, what ever. I feel sorry for innocent people living in the states, it's like what George Carlin said "When you're born in this world you've been given a ticket to the freakshow, and when you're born in America you're given a front row seat." Just my two cents.
On September 10 2011 09:52 Sina92 wrote: It sucks when the attacks are on your home soil doesn't it?
I'm sure you know a lot about war, especially when your country hasn't been in one for 197 years.
I grew up in Srebrenica from 1992-1996. When I was 3 years old I lost my father and older brothers, and a year after that my mother and me moved to Sweden.
I think you're the wrong guy to be judging people based on where they live.
Pretty ironic concidering that you recently wrote "Absolutely not, because many people on the internet have inflated egos so think that they know everything about everybody. "
It might be worthy to note that the amount of american citizens who have died because they had no health insurance and couldn't afford it, is nearly infinitely larger than the american citizens who have died to "terrorism".
It might also be worth it to note that the amount of innocent civilians in iraq/afghanistan who died is nearly infinitely larger than the amount of american soldiers/citizens or terrorists who died.
It is also interesting to see how the government spends nearly an infinite amount of money more per person who dies because of terrorism, than the amount that is spent per person whose death could have been easily prevented, for example the case of people not being able to afford health insurance, because this very same government has the delusional idea that a privately owned corporation that has the intent to make an infinite amount of profit, will be able to provide a better and cheaper (health care) service than a government that has not the intent to make more money, but has the intent to actually provide the service and break even.
Furthermore I just don't believe this, like some others said, they say this every year. In my opinion it's fox news content. "Oh, give in your liberties, we'll protect you!".
On September 10 2011 09:52 Sina92 wrote: It sucks when the attacks are on your home soil doesn't it?
I'm sure you know a lot about war, especially when your country hasn't been in one for 197 years.
I think you're the wrong guy to be judging people based on where they live.
Exactly my point. Many people here act like they actually know something.
I'm not sure why you are proving your point based of something I wrote. Did you have something to write about my original post?
Ok, maybe I should have done it in a less "trollish" manner, but 99% (slight exaggeration) of the people here don't know what the fuck they are talking about. In fact, you showed how I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. Thus, proving my point.
It's always depressing to see how fucked up our world is. No real reason for all the hatred, it's just there because people want to argue and need to be right. I wish we could reach out to people and give them perspective on what they're doing (not just terrorists) but nope, stuck in with these people, their problems and the pointless blood shed.
As hard as I try to avoid messed up news and people, it's inescapable. It's not just religion of course. People get killed over the stupidest argument; I haven't looked but I'm sure some people get killed for whistling too loudly, etc.
On September 10 2011 09:52 Sina92 wrote: It sucks when the attacks are on your home soil doesn't it?
I'm sure you know a lot about war, especially when your country hasn't been in one for 197 years.
I think you're the wrong guy to be judging people based on where they live.
Exactly my point. Many people here act like they actually know something.
I'm not sure why you are proving your point based of something I wrote. Did you have something to write about my original post?
Ok, maybe I should have done it in a less "trollish" manner, but 99% of the people here don't know what the fuck they are talking about. In fact, you showed how I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. Thus, proving my point.
So to sum it up, you just proved that you are a part of the stereotype that it seems that you detest. You had nothing to contribute to the actual topic?
"The real enemies are not in some distant land. The real enemies are not some people whose names we don't know and cultures we don't understand. The enemy is people we know very well and people we can identify. The enemy is a system that wages war when it's profitable, the enemy is the CEOs who way us off from our jobs when it's profitable, it's the insurance companies who deny us healthcare when it's profitable, it's the banks who take away our homes when it's profitable. Our enemy is not 5000 miles away, they are right here at home, if we organize and fight with our sisters and brothers, we can stop this war, we can stop this government, and we can create a better world."
A quote I found somewhere, with too much truth in it.
On September 10 2011 09:52 Sina92 wrote: It sucks when the attacks are on your home soil doesn't it?
I'm sure you know a lot about war, especially when your country hasn't been in one for 197 years.
I think you're the wrong guy to be judging people based on where they live.
Exactly my point. Many people here act like they actually know something.
I'm not sure why you are proving your point based of something I wrote. Did you have something to write about my original post?
Ok, maybe I should have done it in a less "trollish" manner, but 99% of the people here don't know what the fuck they are talking about. In fact, you showed how I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. Thus, proving my point.
So to sum it up, you just proved that you are a part of the stereotype that it seems that you detest. You had nothing to contribute to the actual topic?
No, at least I admit that I don't know everything like most of the "self-proclaimed experts" around here. Any thread on TL that involves American Politics in any sort of way devolves into America bashing, regardless of the OP's intentions. I usually ignore stupid comments, but it's been getting on my nerves recently.
On September 10 2011 09:52 Sina92 wrote: It sucks when the attacks are on your home soil doesn't it?
I'm sure you know a lot about war, especially when your country hasn't been in one for 197 years.
I think you're the wrong guy to be judging people based on where they live.
Exactly my point. Many people here act like they actually know something.
I'm not sure why you are proving your point based of something I wrote. Did you have something to write about my original post?
Ok, maybe I should have done it in a less "trollish" manner, but 99% of the people here don't know what the fuck they are talking about. In fact, you showed how I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. Thus, proving my point.
So to sum it up, you just proved that you are a part of the stereotype that it seems that you detest. You had nothing to contribute to the actual topic?
No, at least I admit that I don't know everything like most of the "self-proclaimed experts" around here. Any thread on TL that involves American Politics in any sort of way devolves into America bashing, regardless of the OP's intentions. It just got on my nerves recently.
That's understandable. Most (actually all) of the Americans I've met has been the utmost pleasant people. I think there's a general mix-up between the American government and it's people.
On September 10 2011 09:52 Sina92 wrote: It sucks when the attacks are on your home soil doesn't it?
I'm sure you know a lot about war, especially when your country hasn't been in one for 197 years.
I think you're the wrong guy to be judging people based on where they live.
Exactly my point. Many people here act like they actually know something.
I'm not sure why you are proving your point based of something I wrote. Did you have something to write about my original post?
Ok, maybe I should have done it in a less "trollish" manner, but 99% of the people here don't know what the fuck they are talking about. In fact, you showed how I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. Thus, proving my point.
So to sum it up, you just proved that you are a part of the stereotype that it seems that you detest. You had nothing to contribute to the actual topic?
No, at least I admit that I don't know everything like most of the "self-proclaimed experts" around here. Any thread on TL that involves American Politics in any sort of way devolves into America bashing, regardless of the OP's intentions. I usually ignore stupid comments, but it's been getting on my nerves recently.
It is not really america bashing, it's more american government/foreign "policy" and american corporation (capitalism) bashing. Don't see it like a personal attack. I'm not a fan of america myself, I don't have problems with the people at all, I have problems with how the government and the capitalism/corporations affect the people, not only the people in america but the people on the entire world. America obviously isn't the only bad guy in these areas, all countries are to some degree. "We" are not against you, we are with you.
Threads on politics changing into "this" is not exclusive for teamliquid, it happens on every forum, in every discussion, etc.
Having lived in New York for 16 years, I can tell you the threats are real, at least most of them, but for the most part nothing ever happens because the terrorists either fail miserably, or the police/fbi/counter-terrorism intervene.
I really don't fully believe the threats are 100% sincere in regard to how extreme the media makes it out to be. I've learned to just listen, and have that in the back of my mind if anything does happen or look undeniably suspicious.
To another degree, indirectly, it definitely shows how weak and oppress-able the American public is when it comes to freedoms, and rights. We lost a ton come 9/11, I'm not saying their all useless, but when it comes to what the Gov. can't do, theres very little. All they have to do is declare this and that and you're rights are revoked, it's scary, especially when this is SUPPOSED to be a republic.
On September 10 2011 09:52 Sina92 wrote: It sucks when the attacks are on your home soil doesn't it?
I'm sure you know a lot about war, especially when your country hasn't been in one for 197 years.
I think you're the wrong guy to be judging people based on where they live.
Exactly my point. Many people here act like they actually know something.
I'm not sure why you are proving your point based of something I wrote. Did you have something to write about my original post?
Ok, maybe I should have done it in a less "trollish" manner, but 99% of the people here don't know what the fuck they are talking about. In fact, you showed how I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. Thus, proving my point.
So to sum it up, you just proved that you are a part of the stereotype that it seems that you detest. You had nothing to contribute to the actual topic?
No, at least I admit that I don't know everything like most of the "self-proclaimed experts" around here. Any thread on TL that involves American Politics in any sort of way devolves into America bashing, regardless of the OP's intentions. It just got on my nerves recently.
That's understandable. Most (actually all) of the Americans I've met has been the utmost pleasant people. I think there's a general mix-up between the American government and it's people.
I'm fine with people crapping on my government, because it doesn't REALLY represent the people. I have a problem with idiots like Ryfje, because they can't tell the difference. They think that the overwhelming majority of Americans are a bunch stupid rednecks, because they saw the Westboro Baptist Church doing a "GOD HATES FAGS!!1!" protest at a military funeral on the internet/TV.
On September 10 2011 09:52 Sina92 wrote: It sucks when the attacks are on your home soil doesn't it?
I'm sure you know a lot about war, especially when your country hasn't been in one for 197 years.
I think you're the wrong guy to be judging people based on where they live.
Exactly my point. Many people here act like they actually know something.
I'm not sure why you are proving your point based of something I wrote. Did you have something to write about my original post?
Ok, maybe I should have done it in a less "trollish" manner, but 99% of the people here don't know what the fuck they are talking about. In fact, you showed how I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. Thus, proving my point.
So to sum it up, you just proved that you are a part of the stereotype that it seems that you detest. You had nothing to contribute to the actual topic?
No, at least I admit that I don't know everything like most of the "self-proclaimed experts" around here. Any thread on TL that involves American Politics in any sort of way devolves into America bashing, regardless of the OP's intentions. I usually ignore stupid comments, but it's been getting on my nerves recently.
It is not really america bashing, it's more american government/foreign "policy" and american corporation (capitalism) bashing. Don't see it like a personal attack. I'm not a fan of america myself, I don't have problems with the people at all, I have problems with how the government and the capitalism/corporations affect the people, not only the people in america but the people on the entire world. America obviously isn't the only bad guy in these areas, all countries are to some degree. "We" are not against you, we are with you.
Threads on politics changing into "this" is not exclusive for teamliquid, it happens on every forum, in every discussion, etc.
The problem is when "American Government/Big Business" bashing becomes blurred with "America" bashing. Although every place has it's share of idiots, I tend to hold TL in higher regard than the rest of the internet which sometimes leads to disappointment.
I hope our government can do everything within its power to stop any potential attacks... and i have faith that the government won't use the threat of an attack to infringe on our freedoms for our safety.
On September 10 2011 09:52 Sina92 wrote: It sucks when the attacks are on your home soil doesn't it?
I'm sure you know a lot about war, especially when your country hasn't been in one for 197 years.
I think you're the wrong guy to be judging people based on where they live.
Exactly my point. Many people here act like they actually know something.
I'm not sure why you are proving your point based of something I wrote. Did you have something to write about my original post?
Ok, maybe I should have done it in a less "trollish" manner, but 99% of the people here don't know what the fuck they are talking about. In fact, you showed how I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. Thus, proving my point.
So to sum it up, you just proved that you are a part of the stereotype that it seems that you detest. You had nothing to contribute to the actual topic?
No, at least I admit that I don't know everything like most of the "self-proclaimed experts" around here. Any thread on TL that involves American Politics in any sort of way devolves into America bashing, regardless of the OP's intentions. It just got on my nerves recently.
That's understandable. Most (actually all) of the Americans I've met has been the utmost pleasant people. I think there's a general mix-up between the American government and it's people.
In my experience people from places like Texas are some of the friendliest you'll ever meet, but many of those around Washington D.C. are so rude it's ridiculous. There's a lot of people from New York that are like that as well, but many are great. You really can't generalize an entire country from the 0.0000001% portion of the population that you've met.
*Off topic post just felt the need to address that *
On September 10 2011 10:41 stokes17 wrote: I hope our government can do everything within its power to stop any potential attacks... and i have faith that the government won't use the threat of an attack to infringe on our freedoms for our safety.
On September 10 2011 05:09 NotSorry wrote: they been claiming this every year and it never happens, I don't believe it anymore than what I see on fox news
Maybe because our agencies find them and stop the attacks before they happen? Either that or the terrorists are trying to scare us.
We cant just completely ignore it, but you are right. This claim has been called before, but just because they keep on catching the criminals doesnt mean we can just ignore it every time
Ok, we get it you hate America. It got old 10 years ago. If you disagree so much with our government why don't you change the way your EU countries follow the US like the sheep they are. Go do something about it.
On topic: I'd be safe if I lived in a big city. I'm not going to worry tho because I'm currently in the middle of no where.
On September 10 2011 10:41 stokes17 wrote: I hope our government can do everything within its power to stop any potential attacks... and i have faith that the government won't use the threat of an attack to infringe on our freedoms for our safety.
that's already happened man, see the PATRIOT act
I think he was being sarcastic
On September 10 2011 10:46 muse5187 wrote: Ok, we get it you hate America. It got old 10 years ago. If you disagree so much with our government why don't you change the way your EU countries follow the US like the sheep they are. Go do something about it.
Maybe because, while many of us are aware of this, it's very hard to mobilize and really do something. Just like the revolution in egypt, it could have happened 5 years ago with the correct trigger for those events. And actually, many many people are very busy doing just this, but just like in your country, politicians no longer represent the people, they represent their own interests and big corporate/bank interests.
On September 10 2011 10:41 stokes17 wrote: I hope our government can do everything within its power to stop any potential attacks... and i have faith that the government won't use the threat of an attack to infringe on our freedoms for our safety.
On September 10 2011 10:46 muse5187 wrote: Ok, we get it you hate America. It got old 10 years ago. If you disagree so much with our government why don't you change the way your EU countries follow the US like the sheep they are. Go do something about it.
Maybe because, while many of us are aware of this, it's very hard to mobilize and really do something. Just like the revolution in egypt, it could have happened 5 years ago with the correct trigger for those events. And actually, many many people are very busy doing just this, but just like in your country, politicians no longer represent the people, they represent their own interests and big corporate/bank interests.
Well with that being said it sounds more like a global problem doesn't it? Or do you guys just blame us because YOUR government also failed you? It's not like we voted your leaders(followers). The whole let's blame USA for all our problems isn't going to fix anything. Only going to alienate more people.
On September 10 2011 10:41 stokes17 wrote: I hope our government can do everything within its power to stop any potential attacks... and i have faith that the government won't use the threat of an attack to infringe on our freedoms for our safety.
On September 10 2011 10:46 muse5187 wrote: Ok, we get it you hate America. It got old 10 years ago. If you disagree so much with our government why don't you change the way your EU countries follow the US like the sheep they are. Go do something about it.
Maybe because, while many of us are aware of this, it's very hard to mobilize and really do something. Just like the revolution in egypt, it could have happened 5 years ago with the correct trigger for those events. And actually, many many people are very busy doing just this, but just like in your country, politicians no longer represent the people, they represent their own interests and big corporate/bank interests.
Uh, there have been almost no politicians in history that have been for the people. Please don't post the big names like Nelson Mandela, because for every saint there like 100s of asswipes and 1000s of "average guys who never actually did anything".
On September 10 2011 10:41 stokes17 wrote: I hope our government can do everything within its power to stop any potential attacks... and i have faith that the government won't use the threat of an attack to infringe on our freedoms for our safety.
that's already happened man, see the PATRIOT act
I think he was being sarcastic
On September 10 2011 10:46 muse5187 wrote: Ok, we get it you hate America. It got old 10 years ago. If you disagree so much with our government why don't you change the way your EU countries follow the US like the sheep they are. Go do something about it.
Maybe because, while many of us are aware of this, it's very hard to mobilize and really do something. Just like the revolution in egypt, it could have happened 5 years ago with the correct trigger for those events. And actually, many many people are very busy doing just this, but just like in your country, politicians no longer represent the people, they represent their own interests and big corporate/bank interests.
Well with that being said it sounds more like a global problem doesn't it? Or do you guys just blame us because YOUR government also failed you? It's not like we voted your leaders(followers). The whole let's blame USA for all our problems isn't going to fix anything. Only going to alienate more people.
Sure, it is a global problem. I never said it isn't.
But in the case of the evil wars in iraq/afghanistan america started this. Europe helped, but america's government started this senseless war. It's also the only country that has 1000+ military bases spread around... the entire planet. The only country that has never known more than 5 years of peace.
And america's corporations are the largest, most evil ones. I remember a list of the 100 biggest economical powers (I'll try to find a link later). 46 were countries and 54 corporations. 48 of the 54 biggest global economical powers are american corporations.
Trust me, we whine about and bash our own government(s) just as much as america's government, if not more.
Deep down Americans hope that such scare tactics never cease. Having previously lived in America for 22 years, I learned that we thrive on fear. And nothing temporarily relieves fear or existential anxiety or guilt quite like a bit of wanton materialism. We have to constantly be at war, all profits aside, so that we never have a chance to relax, and look around. I think people would be even more horrified if they could see all the self-inflicted, genuine terrorist acts.
On September 10 2011 10:41 stokes17 wrote: I hope our government can do everything within its power to stop any potential attacks... and i have faith that the government won't use the threat of an attack to infringe on our freedoms for our safety.
that's already happened man, see the PATRIOT act
I think he was being sarcastic
On September 10 2011 10:46 muse5187 wrote: Ok, we get it you hate America. It got old 10 years ago. If you disagree so much with our government why don't you change the way your EU countries follow the US like the sheep they are. Go do something about it.
Maybe because, while many of us are aware of this, it's very hard to mobilize and really do something. Just like the revolution in egypt, it could have happened 5 years ago with the correct trigger for those events. And actually, many many people are very busy doing just this, but just like in your country, politicians no longer represent the people, they represent their own interests and big corporate/bank interests.
Uh, there have been almost no politicians in history that have been for the people. Please don't post the big names like Nelson Mandela, because for every saint there like 100s of asswipes and 1000s of "average guys who never actually did anything".
That's not really true. There have been a few, and there are some at this moment, but nearly none of those are in the coalition or are president/have an important task.
But looking at the big picture, you're right. "No longer" was bad usage of words on my side. Don't you think no politicians being for the people is a problem? Why does this happen? We, as the human species, should put aside out differences and use a better system, and if we need leaders then we shouldn't ever allow them to be corrupt.
On September 10 2011 11:00 RuthUnderwood wrote: Deep down Americans hope that such scare tactics never cease. Having previously lived in America for 22 years, I learned that we thrive on fear. And nothing temporarily relieves fear or existential anxiety or guilt quite like a bit of wanton materialism. We have to constantly be at war, all profits aside, so that we never have a chance to relax, and look around. I think people would be even more horrified if they could see all the self-inflicted, genuine terrorist acts.
Yeah you're right I hope we have to live under threat from terrorists for ever, after all who wouldn't wish for such a glorious thing.
It's obviousy a hoax perpetrated by TPTB. Al Qaeda is a tool used to control your mind and keep your mouth talking about it instead of the real perpetrators (banks, m.n. corps) and the financial crisis and domination. They can't have people with a clear mind, that would actually allow for reasoning!
On September 10 2011 11:08 alexpnd wrote: It's obviousy a hoax perpetrated by TPTB. Al Qaeda is a tool used to control your mind and keep your mouth talking about it instead of the real perpetrators (banks, m.n. corps) and the financial crisis and domination. They can't have people with a clear mind, that would actually allow for reasoning!
I think you're in the wrong thread. If you want to make a tinfoil hat thread go ahead theres a button for it. This is a different thread.
Forgive me for not remembering exactly how old TL is (2003 ish, I just checked), but at first I thought someone had revived the original thread from that day 10 years ago. Not a chance Al Qaeda will attack on that day though, they aren't stupid. They aren't the type to do a 2 rax scv all in, they prefer the hellion harass that eventually transitions into the late game
On September 10 2011 05:14 Drteeth wrote: errr. Al Qaeda's are the reason there is a 9/11 in the first place, they were "heartless" enough to kill three thousand people with two well placed planes ....
3 well placed planes. And one that wasn't so well placed (For Al Qaeda- the passengers retook it and crashed it in a Pennsylvania field).
If you don't believe the conspiracies ...
You'd really have to be beyond retarded to buy into the conspiracy theories.
On September 10 2011 11:08 alexpnd wrote: It's obviousy a hoax perpetrated by TPTB. Al Qaeda is a tool used to control your mind and keep your mouth talking about it instead of the real perpetrators (banks, m.n. corps) and the financial crisis and domination. They can't have people with a clear mind, that would actually allow for reasoning!
I think you're in the wrong thread. If you want to make a tinfoil hat thread go ahead theres a button for it. This is a different thread.
Right so there were WMD, and we did kill 100,000 or more civilians cause of it. I think you should put your tinfoil hat on.
On September 10 2011 10:41 stokes17 wrote: I hope our government can do everything within its power to stop any potential attacks... and i have faith that the government won't use the threat of an attack to infringe on our freedoms for our safety.
that's already happened man, see the PATRIOT act
I think he was being sarcastic
On September 10 2011 10:46 muse5187 wrote: Ok, we get it you hate America. It got old 10 years ago. If you disagree so much with our government why don't you change the way your EU countries follow the US like the sheep they are. Go do something about it.
Maybe because, while many of us are aware of this, it's very hard to mobilize and really do something. Just like the revolution in egypt, it could have happened 5 years ago with the correct trigger for those events. And actually, many many people are very busy doing just this, but just like in your country, politicians no longer represent the people, they represent their own interests and big corporate/bank interests.
Uh, there have been almost no politicians in history that have been for the people. Please don't post the big names like Nelson Mandela, because for every saint there like 100s of asswipes and 1000s of "average guys who never actually did anything".
That's not really true. There have been a few, and there are some at this moment, but nearly none of those are in the coalition or are president/have an important task.
But looking at the big picture, you're right. "No longer" was bad usage of words on my side. Don't you think no politicians being for the people is a problem? Why does this happen? We, as the human species, should put aside out differences and use a better system, and if we need leaders then we shouldn't ever allow them to be corrupt.
Assholes will always be assholes. There isn't much you can do, so you have to punish them before they do too much damage. However, I do believe that most politicians who are "wet behind the ears", when entering the arena, genuinely want to help/lead people. The problem is when people start having success. They can sometimes become arrogant and the only way to stay in the game and/or get more out of it, is to do dirty backroom deals. "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely"
On September 10 2011 11:08 alexpnd wrote: It's obviousy a hoax perpetrated by TPTB. Al Qaeda is a tool used to control your mind and keep your mouth talking about it instead of the real perpetrators (banks, m.n. corps) and the financial crisis and domination. They can't have people with a clear mind, that would actually allow for reasoning!
I think you're in the wrong thread. If you want to make a tinfoil hat thread go ahead theres a button for it. This is a different thread.
Right so there were WMD, and we did kill 100,000 or more civilians cause of it. I think you should put your tinfoil hat on.
Good argument bro. I thought this thread was about al qaeda?
I'm not surprised that such information is roaming around the world.
Sometimes, the achievement of a terrorist activity can be achieved through simple propaganda, and the absence of direct action. Example: an individual calling a news station that there is a bomb somewhere in a major metro area, watch chaos ensue. No actual bomb needs to actually be in place or exist.
On September 10 2011 11:08 alexpnd wrote: It's obviousy a hoax perpetrated by TPTB. Al Qaeda is a tool used to control your mind and keep your mouth talking about it instead of the real perpetrators (banks, m.n. corps) and the financial crisis and domination. They can't have people with a clear mind, that would actually allow for reasoning!
I think you're in the wrong thread. If you want to make a tinfoil hat thread go ahead theres a button for it. This is a different thread.
Right so there were WMD, and we did kill 100,000 or more civilians cause of it. I think you should put your tinfoil hat on.
Good argument bro. I thought this thread was about al qaeda?
It's about he government and the stories they tell, and who they make suffer for it. I'm not ill willing, I just require a little bit of restraint to jumping on the band wagon.
On September 10 2011 05:14 Drteeth wrote: errr. Al Qaeda's are the reason there is a 9/11 in the first place, they were "heartless" enough to kill three thousand people with two well placed planes ....
3 well placed planes. And one that wasn't so well placed (For Al Qaeda- the passengers retook it and crashed it in a Pennsylvania field).
If you don't believe the conspiracies ...
You'd really have to be beyond retarded to buy into the conspiracy theories.
I guess your beyond retarded, because the governments theory of 9/11 its self a conspiracy.
Not 911 conspiracy discussion, the time were all conspiracy theorists become a expert in thermodynamics, demolition. Yet still deny all evidence experts in the actual fields have given. People still waste energy on this shit, kinda sad and worrying.
There are three issues that i see from this thread, taking out the retards arguing about conspiracy theories, you either agree or your dont, if you try to convinve a believer, your stupid, if you try to convince a non believer, your stupid.
Act of fear rather then actual legitimate threat
One must always assume the threat is real, else what happens when it is real? I always found the story of the boy who cried wolf tragic, simply because the village felt secure enough that they believed that the calling must be a lie again as there was no way a wolf actually visited. This is much the same. If a threat occurred every year for 10 years, then on the tenth year it wasn't taken seriously, then the attack happened, it would show the height of foolishness of not reacting to any possible credible threat.
Legitimacy of threat through media
I feel that while this seems obvious, the media is ofc hyping it up for views and ratings, it's not actually. The very fact that all media groups are simultaneously covering the issue and disregarding the origin (white house declaration) means the media has done nothing but what they should in making the populace aware of possible attack.
The ACTUAL threat given and legitimacy that it could possibly occur..
This is a given, There was a previous explosive vehicle scare in Times Square that failed simply because the bomb didn't go off. This was a success for Al-Qaeda though. They were able to get the people out of the country, train them, get them back, and go through with the attack except for mechanical error. While i personally believe that as soon as the "truckload of explosives" was announced and the check points established the plan would immediately change, the actual possibility of a carbomb hitting a major center is indeed a legitimate threat.
tbh, when i heard this, my first thought was them driving into a large memorial service on 9/11 a la dukes of hazzard.
On September 10 2011 11:08 alexpnd wrote: It's obviousy a hoax perpetrated by TPTB. Al Qaeda is a tool used to control your mind and keep your mouth talking about it instead of the real perpetrators (banks, m.n. corps) and the financial crisis and domination. They can't have people with a clear mind, that would actually allow for reasoning!
I think you're in the wrong thread. If you want to make a tinfoil hat thread go ahead theres a button for it. This is a different thread.
Right so there were WMD, and we did kill 100,000 or more civilians cause of it. I think you should put your tinfoil hat on.
Good argument bro. I thought this thread was about al qaeda?
It's about he government and the stories they tell, and who they make suffer for it. I'm not ill willing, I just require a little bit of restraint to jumping on the band wagon.
The logic that
Government lies about some things
therefore
Governmnent must be lieing about everything / subject being discussed
is the one reason that arguing with conspiracy theorists is a stupid thing to do. Occasionally you find some that will only point out specific things, but those are lost within the majority. Sad as it may be, from my personal experience 1 out of 10 conspiracy "nuts" can actually support their claim with a logical background, and only 2-3 are even willing to listen to the non anti government side of the story.
If there WAS going to be a terrorist attack, it wouldn't be in New York City anyway... they would attack someplace else while the police are busy elsewhere. But it is worth noting that there is no corroborated evidence of a terrorist attack
9/11 was as cost effective as collsi vs lings now =P Think about it: They spent maybe less than a million to train their pilots and coordinate it. the US built a "counter" ending in 2 wars (AKA bad engagements), loss of liberties, and paying for national security (Missile Turrets). and FEAR(This topic/ Too afraid to move out) Al Queda has dealt severe indirect damage to the economy.
On September 10 2011 13:06 Trell wrote: 9/11 was as cost effective as collsi vs lings now =P Think about it: They spent maybe less than a million to train their pilots and coordinate it. the US built a "counter" ending in 2 wars (AKA bad engagements), loss of liberties, and paying for national security (Missile Turrets). and FEAR(This topic/ Too afraid to move out) Al Queda has dealt severe indirect damage to the economy.
GG no RE
Yeah well... that's how terrorism works, and why nearly every government in the world is taking such massive measures to prevent it
On September 10 2011 05:24 Ko1tz wrote: There something I never understood about this terrorists, if they want to "do damage" and such, why the hell would they announce their intentions? it makes no sense, it will make the authorities be even MORE careful of a potential attack. Is there any other reason besides having people terrified (wich is already pretty bad)?
The word terrorist should give it away, terrorism isn't just about killing people, it's about causing disruption, making people change habits, causing terror. The IRA in the 80's in the UK were very very good at it.
One man's definition of terrorism is another man's definition of a freedom fighter.
User was warned for this post
Why is this guy warned... it's actually true to some extent...
On September 10 2011 09:17 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote: Why does every single thread that has anything to do with politics turn into a bash war of anti-america vs pro-america?
I'd love to know this too. Libya, Egypt, hell even the UK riots thread ended up being about US vs UK gun laws. It's like TL's very own version of Godwinning; that any political thread will inevitably become anti- vs pro-america.
On September 10 2011 05:24 Ko1tz wrote: There something I never understood about this terrorists, if they want to "do damage" and such, why the hell would they announce their intentions? it makes no sense, it will make the authorities be even MORE careful of a potential attack. Is there any other reason besides having people terrified (wich is already pretty bad)?
The word terrorist should give it away, terrorism isn't just about killing people, it's about causing disruption, making people change habits, causing terror. The IRA in the 80's in the UK were very very good at it.
One man's definition of terrorism is another man's definition of a freedom fighter.
User was warned for this post
Why is this guy warned... it's actually true to some extent...
It's not because the freedom fighters in my country during WW2 never started murdering dutch civillians to get rid of the Germans. For the record, muslims are the #1 victim of terrorism. Every single day there is a terrorist atack in the middle east that claims more lives.
Terrorism is entirely different. It's motivation often more fanatical and it's targets often not in any way valid targets of war.
Nobody called the resistance in Iraq terrorists. The terms are quite different.
Has anyone else wondered if / or how many people are being waterboarded right now, regarding the actual topic of this thread ? I wonder if the attack succeeds, what questions will come about what investigative methods were passed up because they were considered torture by this Administration.
Today I was reading the wikipedia page about 9/11 and I came across an interesting statistic which I'd like to share:
Some Americans, alarmed at the prospect of flying, instead traveled by car. This resulted in an estimated 1,595 more excess highway deaths in the ensuing year.*
Fear is a powerful thing which manifests itself in various ways. Why should I even bother caring about the new Al Qaeda terrorist "threat"?
* Gardner, Daniel (2008). The Science of Fear: Why We Fear the Things We Shouldn't--and Put Ourselves in Greater Danger. Dutton Adult. pp. 3. ISBN 0525950621.
Al Qaeda would have to kill a ton more civilians to even come close to the number of civilians that the US has killed. That's in the last 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years or 100 years... take your pick.
Neither is right. But to be clear, if it's wrong for them to do it- it's wrong for us to do it.
On September 10 2011 18:05 Kaitlin wrote: Has anyone else wondered if / or how many people are being waterboarded right now, regarding the actual topic of this thread ? I wonder if the attack succeeds, what questions will come about what investigative methods were passed up because they were considered torture by this Administration.
I realize you're a troll(like in all your posts). I'll bite though. Wasn't it the last administration performing water boarding? Not to mention it was banned under the current administration because it's torture.
On September 10 2011 05:00 AxelTVx wrote: I think it's sickening to think that the Al Qaeda's would stoop so low as to make everyone remember the travesty that had happened 10 years ago. What are your thoughts on this issue that may occur?
Uh, why don't you say the same crap to all the TV stations running their specials that are drudging up tons of memories.
On September 10 2011 21:13 Ciraxis wrote: Today I was reading the wikipedia page about 9/11 and I came across an interesting statistic which I'd like to share:
Some Americans, alarmed at the prospect of flying, instead traveled by car. This resulted in an estimated 1,595 more excess highway deaths in the ensuing year.*
Fear is a powerful thing which manifests itself in various ways. Why should I even bother caring about the new Al Qaeda terrorist "threat"?
You don't have to care, but don't stop the government from doing their job to disturb and prevent terrorist attack. People dies from car crash are different than people dies from terrorist attack, as one is intentional and can be stopped, people aren't driving in hope getting into a car crash.
And comparing the death toll to 9/11 is just narrow way of thinking. Government ain't doing it to rewrite history, they are doing it based on prevention logic. What if they got hold of something more terrible such as dirty bomb, it can easily blow through the roof in terms of number.
If you let terrorist network grow unchecked, it will just become more problematic in the future, as it can easily snowball out of hand, like Mexico's war on drugs for example.
On September 10 2011 18:05 Kaitlin wrote: Has anyone else wondered if / or how many people are being waterboarded right now, regarding the actual topic of this thread ? I wonder if the attack succeeds, what questions will come about what investigative methods were passed up because they were considered torture by this Administration.
I realize you're a troll(like in all your posts). I'll bite though. Wasn't it the last administration performing water boarding? Not to mention it was banned under the current administration because it's torture.
You misunderstand, I think he's saying that if the attack succeeds, and becuase of all the shit about "advanced interrogation techniques", noone was succesfully interrogated for the information, whether these techniques will be allowed again / public brings up a shitstorm about not doing enough to learn about what happened.
And most of those aren't torture.....and dont bring up "mental torture" since jail itself impairs people mentally.
On September 10 2011 21:21 cursor wrote: Al Qaeda would have to kill a ton more civilians to even come close to the number of civilians that the US has killed. That's in the last 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years or 100 years... take your pick.
Neither is right. But to be clear, if it's wrong for them to do it- it's wrong for us to do it.
I'd like to see the source, i've noticed you talking a lot about the number of civilians killed,so heres a challenge for you.
Find the war/time period
Find the amount of civilians killed by the opposite sides during these wars/time periods.
If your statistics are correct, i'll give in, otherwise stfu and back your information up. During the whole iraqi war, Terrorists killed more civilians then the US did. I'd be willing to bet money that this was true 80-90% of the time throughout history.
Whenever I look on the left tabs on TL home page, I keep seeing this thread and the Best/Strongest superhero and I keep thinking it says "Best Al Qaeda Attacks"
On September 11 2011 00:09 Arterial wrote: Whenever I look on the left tabs on TL home page, I keep seeing this thread and the Best/Strongest superhero and I keep thinking it says "Best Al Qaeda Attacks"
There is some very interesting information given out by engineers and architects regarding the collapse of the world trade center buildings. If you watch the full movie they do a full rundown of the comparison between controlled demolitions and the collapse of the world trade center buildings.
User was warned for this post
Getting warned for this because it's a conspiracy theory? I guess it's just that if you don't take scientific reasoning and the UNDENIABLE PROOF presented by of architects and engineers who are devoted to debunking the myth that 2 airplanes caused the complete destruction of 3 buildings. If you don't believe in science and physics then you should just give up hope.
There is some very interesting information given out by engineers and architects regarding the collapse of the world trade center buildings. If you watch the full movie they do a full rundown of the comparison between controlled demolitions and the collapse of the world trade center buildings.
User was warned for this post
Getting warned for this because it's a conspiracy theory? I guess it's just that if you don't take scientific reasoning and the UNDENIABLE PROOF presented by of architects and engineers who are devoted to debunking the myth that 2 airplanes caused the complete destruction of 3 buildings. If you don't believe in science and physics then you should just give up hope.
Your like all the others in the so called "truth-movement", completly full of crap. You dont understand physics to realize that an airplane traveling in high speed sure can demolish big buildings. Also the so called experts u refer to? Some eastern european who cant even speak english.
You cant denie the UNDIENIABLE PROOF presented by the fact that everybody saw 2 airplanes crash into the buildings, and that is what caused the collapse..
There is some very interesting information given out by engineers and architects regarding the collapse of the world trade center buildings. If you watch the full movie they do a full rundown of the comparison between controlled demolitions and the collapse of the world trade center buildings.
User was warned for this post
Getting warned for this because it's a conspiracy theory? I guess it's just that if you don't take scientific reasoning and the UNDENIABLE PROOF presented by of architects and engineers who are devoted to debunking the myth that 2 airplanes caused the complete destruction of 3 buildings. If you don't believe in science and physics then you should just give up hope.
Your like all the others in the so called "truth-movement", completly full of crap. You dont understand physics to realize that an airplane traveling in high speed sure can demolish big buildings. Also the so called experts u refer to? Some eastern european who cant even speak english.
You cant denie the UNDIENIABLE PROOF presented by the fact that everybody saw 2 airplanes crash into the buildings, and that is what caused the collapse..
Let's not go off topic?
I'm not going to take sides here, but I recommend you stay objective. If you watch this video, the people in it come with good arguments. It isn't ridiculous just because it is a conspiracy theory! In fact, it is a conspiracy theory for sure. They question that's being asked, is where is the conspiracy. Did terrorists conspire to take down the wtc? Did the american government conspire to take down the wtc? Did the terrorists conspire with the government to do it? Which one is true is irrelevant, it is a conspiracy regardless of who really did it and why.
Ad hominem arguments to people in this video and people who support them only further degrades the quality of your post. Again, why not be objective and come with facts, or just ignore the post, instead of trying to prove your opinion with ad hominem arguments?
There is some very interesting information given out by engineers and architects regarding the collapse of the world trade center buildings. If you watch the full movie they do a full rundown of the comparison between controlled demolitions and the collapse of the world trade center buildings.
User was warned for this post
Getting warned for this because it's a conspiracy theory? I guess it's just that if you don't take scientific reasoning and the UNDENIABLE PROOF presented by of architects and engineers who are devoted to debunking the myth that 2 airplanes caused the complete destruction of 3 buildings. If you don't believe in science and physics then you should just give up hope.
Your like all the others in the so called "truth-movement", completly full of crap. You dont understand physics to realize that an airplane traveling in high speed sure can demolish big buildings. Also the so called experts u refer to? Some eastern european who cant even speak english.
You cant denie the UNDIENIABLE PROOF presented by the fact that everybody saw 2 airplanes crash into the buildings, and that is what caused the collapse..
Heh you might be eastern european then since you can't spell either. Anyways, it doesn't matter how much who caused 9/11, the american authorities used it as an excuse for violations of every kind. Even after being unmasked by Wikileaks and.. hey, read it yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks#Leaks What the US did is the latest great tragedy, exacerbated by this social media that exists now, whereas before nothing would be known to the public, unfortunately the EU or rest of the world is not strong enough to take US officials to international court, but don't doubt for one minute their guilt.
I think the truth movement is dumb, what's the point in ordinary people trying to solve a real life murder mystery? So you got some evidence, what are you going to do with it? Take the US to court?
An attack happened and terrorists took credit for it. Whatever, it's the wars and goverment policies that happened as a consequence that are really hurting people. Yet here we are, 10 years later still anxious about the boogie men that might come from the sky to wreck our shit.
On September 11 2011 01:04 Tanukki wrote: I think the truth movement is dumb, what's the point in ordinary people trying to solve a real life murder mystery? So you got some evidence, what are you going to do with it? Take the US to court?
An attack happened and terrorists took credit for it. Whatever, it's the wars and goverment policies that happened as a consequence that are really hurting people. Yet here we are, 10 years later still anxious about the boogie men that might come from the sky to wreck our shit.
This is correct, but I think I know what the truth movement wants to accomplish. If they can succeed in convincing people, then these people will also be a lot more critical against those wars and government policies. People in the truth movement are very critical of those policies and wars, and want to convince people so they also become critical of the policies and wars.
And all people are ordinary people. Police are ordinary people, politicians are ordinary people, etc.
I guess so. But if you want to get involved in politics, just being anti-goverment is not enough...people need to be armed with more than a truth of what happened 10 years ago. They need new ideologies and representatives to overwrite the current regime, go beyond just blindly voting out the current president.
That is true. There are plenty of better alternatives and new ideologies around though, they just need to be spread. I do have the idea that especially the last 10 years the common man has become a lot smarter and wiser, people are starting to understand war, poverty and hate is bad. It's sad that truthers usually don't come up with alternative ideologies, but I guess people will search on their own.
There is some very interesting information given out by engineers and architects regarding the collapse of the world trade center buildings. If you watch the full movie they do a full rundown of the comparison between controlled demolitions and the collapse of the world trade center buildings.
User was warned for this post
Getting warned for this because it's a conspiracy theory? I guess it's just that if you don't take scientific reasoning and the UNDENIABLE PROOF presented by of architects and engineers who are devoted to debunking the myth that 2 airplanes caused the complete destruction of 3 buildings. If you don't believe in science and physics then you should just give up hope.
Your like all the others in the so called "truth-movement", completly full of crap. You dont understand physics to realize that an airplane traveling in high speed sure can demolish big buildings. Also the so called experts u refer to? Some eastern european who cant even speak english.
You cant denie the UNDIENIABLE PROOF presented by the fact that everybody saw 2 airplanes crash into the buildings, and that is what caused the collapse..
Heh you might be eastern european then since you can't spell either. Anyways, it doesn't matter how much who caused 9/11, the american authorities used it as an excuse for violations of every kind. Even after being unmasked by Wikileaks and.. hey, read it yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks#Leaks What the US did is the latest great tragedy, exacerbated by this social media that exists now, whereas before nothing would be known to the public, unfortunately the EU or rest of the world is not strong enough to take US officials to international court, but don't doubt for one minute their guilt.
1. While I agree that the US should have had better policy regarding its detention facilities, it is hardly a "great tragedy". There are probably 50-70 countries in the world where far greater affronts against human rights are perpetrated against people on a daily basis. You need to look no farther then China, Russia, or even your European neighbor Belarus.
2. The Iraq war, which we now know in retrospect was rather pointless, occurred at a time when the international consensus was that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. It was unanimously justified by the UN security counsel, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_1441 . I am not saying the war was right or good, but it was not illegal by international law.
On September 10 2011 05:18 IntoTheBush wrote: if any of u really believe this I deeply suggest you watch some of Alex Jones' documentaries...
Alex Jones is a crackpot.
Alex jones is totally insane indeed, but if you look at the very core of his message you can find a little bit of truth. Of course you need to take it with a grain of salt, but nobody can deny that the police has militarized, that there are a lot of cameras, and that the government actively uses the events of 9/11 and terrorist attacks to structurally take away liberties, using the excuse of needing to do that to provide security (see: patriot act).
This video gives interesting information about how the police has become more like the military the last 15-20 years. + Show Spoiler +
There is some very interesting information given out by engineers and architects regarding the collapse of the world trade center buildings. If you watch the full movie they do a full rundown of the comparison between controlled demolitions and the collapse of the world trade center buildings.
User was warned for this post
Getting warned for this because it's a conspiracy theory? I guess it's just that if you don't take scientific reasoning and the UNDENIABLE PROOF presented by of architects and engineers who are devoted to debunking the myth that 2 airplanes caused the complete destruction of 3 buildings. If you don't believe in science and physics then you should just give up hope.
Your like all the others in the so called "truth-movement", completly full of crap. You dont understand physics to realize that an airplane traveling in high speed sure can demolish big buildings. Also the so called experts u refer to? Some eastern european who cant even speak english.
You cant denie the UNDIENIABLE PROOF presented by the fact that everybody saw 2 airplanes crash into the buildings, and that is what caused the collapse..
Heh you might be eastern european then since you can't spell either. Anyways, it doesn't matter how much who caused 9/11, the american authorities used it as an excuse for violations of every kind. Even after being unmasked by Wikileaks and.. hey, read it yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks#Leaks What the US did is the latest great tragedy, exacerbated by this social media that exists now, whereas before nothing would be known to the public, unfortunately the EU or rest of the world is not strong enough to take US officials to international court, but don't doubt for one minute their guilt.
1. While I agree that the US should have had better policy regarding its detention facilities, it is hardly a "great tragedy". There are probably 50-70 countries in the world where far greater affronts against human rights are perpetrated against people on a daily basis. You need to look no farther then China, Russia, or even your European neighbor Belarus.
2. The Iraq war, which we now know in retrospect was rather pointless, occurred at a time when the international consensus was that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. It was unanimously justified by the UN security counsel, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_1441 . I am not saying the war was right or good, but it was not illegal by international law.
Oh come on, even Colin Powell didn't believe what he was saying in the security council meeting on february 5th 2003, to a point where he called his own briefing to the UN security council 'deliberately misleading' and has stated several times that the US government didn't have any proof at all. Even the CIA disagreed with the WMD-assesment. Not to even mention that legal reviews in most European countries have since found that resolution 1441 did not actually provide a legal basis for invasion, that required another security council vote.
The war was illegal by every reasonable interpretation of international law.
There is some very interesting information given out by engineers and architects regarding the collapse of the world trade center buildings. If you watch the full movie they do a full rundown of the comparison between controlled demolitions and the collapse of the world trade center buildings.
User was warned for this post
Getting warned for this because it's a conspiracy theory? I guess it's just that if you don't take scientific reasoning and the UNDENIABLE PROOF presented by of architects and engineers who are devoted to debunking the myth that 2 airplanes caused the complete destruction of 3 buildings. If you don't believe in science and physics then you should just give up hope.
Your like all the others in the so called "truth-movement", completly full of crap. You dont understand physics to realize that an airplane traveling in high speed sure can demolish big buildings. Also the so called experts u refer to? Some eastern european who cant even speak english.
You cant denie the UNDIENIABLE PROOF presented by the fact that everybody saw 2 airplanes crash into the buildings, and that is what caused the collapse..
Heh you might be eastern european then since you can't spell either. Anyways, it doesn't matter how much who caused 9/11, the american authorities used it as an excuse for violations of every kind. Even after being unmasked by Wikileaks and.. hey, read it yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks#Leaks What the US did is the latest great tragedy, exacerbated by this social media that exists now, whereas before nothing would be known to the public, unfortunately the EU or rest of the world is not strong enough to take US officials to international court, but don't doubt for one minute their guilt.
1. While I agree that the US should have had better policy regarding its detention facilities, it is hardly a "great tragedy". There are probably 50-70 countries in the world where far greater affronts against human rights are perpetrated against people on a daily basis. You need to look no farther then China, Russia, or even your European neighbor Belarus.
2. The Iraq war, which we now know in retrospect was rather pointless, occurred at a time when the international consensus was that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. It was unanimously justified by the UN security counsel, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_1441 . I am not saying the war was right or good, but it was not illegal by international law.
I think his point is that the US is generally compared to the rest of the West. Comparing them to China is pretty sad. As for Iraq, there was endless controversy about WMDs, where's this consensus you're getting?
I really don't hold the US to the same standard as Belarus, since they don't seem to so actively intervene in foreign policy. And we know this foreign intervention is about the economical gain of some parties, read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mongoose http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBSUCCESS Masking economical reasons of a few interested moguls as political or military threats to the US. It is a shame the 9/11 tragedy was milked for even more than a war, as well as a series of open threats to individual freedom. I think my real concern is they don't even attempt to hide/deny it, which imo indicates they don't see US citizens as threat to their megalomaniac rule.
And going back to topic, I find it improbable that another attack happens on the 11th, but really what do I know?
There is some very interesting information given out by engineers and architects regarding the collapse of the world trade center buildings. If you watch the full movie they do a full rundown of the comparison between controlled demolitions and the collapse of the world trade center buildings.
User was warned for this post
Getting warned for this because it's a conspiracy theory? I guess it's just that if you don't take scientific reasoning and the UNDENIABLE PROOF presented by of architects and engineers who are devoted to debunking the myth that 2 airplanes caused the complete destruction of 3 buildings. If you don't believe in science and physics then you should just give up hope.
Your like all the others in the so called "truth-movement", completly full of crap. You dont understand physics to realize that an airplane traveling in high speed sure can demolish big buildings. Also the so called experts u refer to? Some eastern european who cant even speak english.
You cant denie the UNDIENIABLE PROOF presented by the fact that everybody saw 2 airplanes crash into the buildings, and that is what caused the collapse..
Heh you might be eastern european then since you can't spell either. Anyways, it doesn't matter how much who caused 9/11, the american authorities used it as an excuse for violations of every kind. Even after being unmasked by Wikileaks and.. hey, read it yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks#Leaks What the US did is the latest great tragedy, exacerbated by this social media that exists now, whereas before nothing would be known to the public, unfortunately the EU or rest of the world is not strong enough to take US officials to international court, but don't doubt for one minute their guilt.
1. While I agree that the US should have had better policy regarding its detention facilities, it is hardly a "great tragedy". There are probably 50-70 countries in the world where far greater affronts against human rights are perpetrated against people on a daily basis. You need to look no farther then China, Russia, or even your European neighbor Belarus.
2. The Iraq war, which we now know in retrospect was rather pointless, occurred at a time when the international consensus was that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. It was unanimously justified by the UN security counsel, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_1441 . I am not saying the war was right or good, but it was not illegal by international law.
I think his point is that the US is generally compared to the rest of the West. Comparing them to China is pretty sad. As for Iraq, there was endless controversy about WMDs, where's this consensus you're getting?
no controversy. they never existed.
It was an illegal war, and the fact that the people who committed it aren't punished severely shows society for what it really is.
At its most base, we should be punishing all those who did it, if only on the basis of intelligent understanding that you would NOT want it to happen to you, so people who do this have to be punished to prevent other rulers from doing the same. thats how you protect yourselves as citizens. A Tale Of Two Cities, come on.
They've achieved godhood status though, being untouchable in a way despots or tyrants never have been able to in the past, because they're using huge resources in PR to misdirect and confuse. I'm willing to bet Xerxes would be outrageously jealous of some "presidents", were he alive today.
People condemn injustices not through fear of committing them but fear of suffering them, is the usual way people think personally. At the most base, its intelligent to know that you get better things for yourself putting positive things out into society, and that you get benefits if you condemn injustices as everyone else does, so that everyone need not fear having it done to them.
Thats why you punish people who commit criminal acts. thats why you as a society hate criminals. Because it makes it clear to everyone an expected level of social interaction, thus people can feel safer believing that less people will commit injustices because they don't want to suffer them either. Social contract.
When politicians get away with criminal acts without being punished as severely (or not at all) compared to ordinary citizens, its allowing more politicians to do the same things without fear.
Why do you think the citizen population of individualistic countries in olden times hung their leaders, or tortured them to death. Thats how they kept leaders in line, knowing full well the propensity for humans to do evil and injustice, because they have it in themslves and are fully aware of it.
On September 10 2011 05:06 Atasu wrote: Keep the mass public in fear, its easier to do what you want.
because having whole countries invaded and watching your families being blown up is doing what they want.
Tell me what terrorists have managed to do that they want because of their actions.
The IRA?
Come on you don't honestly believe most terrorist groups are not funded by governments around the world, the US trained and armed the Taliban.
Look, would you agree on the claim that a government would benefit from the public opinion to be in fear, to let you legislate what securities is entitled to, what amendments of the constitution it can ignore, what people from within the govmt and related actions are above public scrutiny.
People in fear are more hasty to sign off their liberties, do you agree?
And yes, terrorists have not much to gain by their actions, which is why there are not many I suppose.
On September 10 2011 05:06 Atasu wrote: Keep the mass public in fear, its easier to do what you want.
because having whole countries invaded and watching your families being blown up is doing what they want.
Tell me what terrorists have managed to do that they want because of their actions.
The IRA?
Come on you don't honestly believe most terrorist groups are not funded by governments around the world, the US trained and armed the Taliban.
Look, would you agree on the claim that a government would benefit from the public opinion to be in fear, to let you legislate what securities is entitled to, what amendments of the constitution it can ignore, what people from within the govmt and related actions are above public scrutiny.
People in fear are more hasty to sign off their liberties, do you agree?
And yes, terrorists have not much to gain by their actions, which is why there are not many I suppose.
lol no shit. read my post above. I edited it but too late.
Well I'm glad they're taking it seriously, sometimes it's better to be safe than sorry, and sometimes it's better to be better to be safe than sorry than other times.
On September 10 2011 05:01 Gorsameth wrote: My thought are this is just another haux to make people think they draconic measures taken against them and there liberties are worth the price.
pretty much it, can believe that people still think it was al quaeda that atacked the towers.
On September 10 2011 05:01 Gorsameth wrote: My thought are this is just another haux to make people think they draconic measures taken against them and there liberties are worth the price.
pretty much it, can believe that people still think it was al quaeda that atacked the towers.
Can't believe people still think it wasn't. But conspiracy is common in the heads of nutters.
On September 10 2011 05:01 Gorsameth wrote: My thought are this is just another haux to make people think they draconic measures taken against them and there liberties are worth the price.
pretty much it, can believe that people still think it was al quaeda that atacked the towers.
Really?
Even with the big warning at the top of the thread?
Stop the country bashing, and the conspiracy theories or bans will start to be handed out.
The odds that a terrorist attack of serious proportions would happen at the 10th anniversary of 9/11 are pretty low. Why should a terrorist pick the day when the entire country is especially alert?
9/11 was a horrible tragedy, but 10 years after it is time to put it into context: More than 40000 people died in car accidents in the US in the same year and more than 4500 soldiers died in Iraq on the US side alone up to now.
It certainly is reason enough to be extra prepared for future terrorist attacks but not worth giving up civil liberties or starting new wars.
ban me if u want, but 9-11 was an inside job, and there is OVERWHELMING evidence. i may come back and provide some more links. i do not hate america or think that killing anyone is right. i believe in infinite possibilities in this universe, and therefore freedom of thought. if someone can actually tell me the entire "official story" halfway through telling it you should see at least half of the evidence.
Stop the country bashing, and the conspiracy theories or bans will start to be handed out.
Rephrase to ''stop USA bashing''?
Apparently you can say
EU countries follow the US like the sheep they are
and be just fine. Dem double standards.
I guess anything can be taken out of context with the bulk of the quote missing. Nice try I suppose.
Uh okay? The context of the post doesn't change the fact that you called all the countries in the EU ''sheep''.
Yes and there are plenty of posts in plenty of threads all over the place that bash the US much more than using the word 'sheep' calling countries sheep once when that's not even the focus of the post is not serious enough to deserve a ban, and I think it's a double standard to see US bashing all over the place then get worked up over 1 silly word.
Stop the country bashing, and the conspiracy theories or bans will start to be handed out.
Rephrase to ''stop USA bashing''?
Apparently you can say
EU countries follow the US like the sheep they are
and be just fine. Dem double standards.
I guess anything can be taken out of context with the bulk of the quote missing. Nice try I suppose.
Uh okay? The context of the post doesn't change the fact that you called all the countries in the EU ''sheep''.
Yes and there are plenty of posts in plenty of threads all over the place that bash the US much more than using the word 'sheep' calling countries sheep once when that's not even the focus of the post is not serious enough to deserve a ban, and I think it's a double standard to see US bashing all over the place then get worked up over 1 silly word.
Err.. pretty much every post in this thread (that has a note about country bashing at the top btw) that has the slightest hint of anti US wording gets a warning, and worse offenses get a ban.
I'm hardly calling for a ban here, a warning would be 100% in line with the majority of other posts that got warned in this thread, however - but the post bashes the EU, not the US.
Anyway, seeing as im not worked up in the slightest and all im doing at this point is derailing and arguing semantics... laters.
This is such a joke ... Compare the numbers between civilians killed by all the terrorist groups in our entire recorded history against the number of civilians "accidentally" killed by the US army or any other US special agency .
Let's see who is the real terrorist . Numbers people ... numbers ... Whether or not the conspiracies are true or not , at the very least the US became the crazy empire who is tripping over it's own ego trying to .. idk ... Nothing makes sense now , maybe the top leaders are pure incompetent morons and if not , then they are controlled by some morons that unfortunately have all the money ( Conspiracy or no conspiracy I believe it brings no good to have almost all the wealth in the world and no true friends or healthy hobbies ... )
+come on , whoever believes 12 idiots with box cutters took the towers down are out of their minds .. Why should u believe your government , the one who denied serious research on the case early on ... That alone should be proof of , at least the fact that the true story is not the official one , no need to go any further than that really , let's keep it simple folks ..
Another terrorist attack ? ... Sure could be ... But if it serves again the people in charge ... Oh well I don't believe in coincidences or dumb luck. Wake up people ... It's simple .. claim your birthright and get back your freedoms ... The wonderful American Constitution still protects the individual if you know to claim your natural freedom and your association to the corporation which is the state , which you are in a contract of ownership with ...
What do I say ? Make a state referendum , for a radical positive change ( which of course would discomfort the big boys ) in the system ... if the leaders won't comply , the whole game of cards fall and you're gonna destroy the system and take the peaces and build a new beginning ..
And anyways in a system where the financial system is something like ... Where do the money come from ? Oh well money are printed without being attributed to any resource or business or whatever , and those money who came from thin air are being borrowed for interest ... Ok guys what the hell is going on ? I tell you what .... the psychosis of the human species reached a boiling point and we should ditch the most sick psychotic leaders who lead us to the destruction of the planet ( well not the planet just the environment that sustains ourselves ) , and also the destruction of the poor and the middle class people ...
If any1 is offended by this post I apologies ... Just ... Wake up and stay together for a better future ... Simple good ideas for a new beginning , forget all the bureaucracy and the legal fiction ..
On September 11 2011 08:14 bOne7 wrote: This is such a joke ... Compare the numbers between civilians killed by all the terrorist groups in our entire recorded history against the number of civilians "accidentally" killed by the US army or any other US special agency .
Let's see who is the real terrorist . Numbers people ... numbers ... Whether or not the conspiracies are true or not , at the very least the US became the crazy empire who is tripping over it's own ego trying to .. idk ... Nothing makes sense now , maybe the top leaders are pure incompetent morons and if not , then they are controlled by some morons that unfortunately have all the money ( Conspiracy or no conspiracy I believe it brings no good to have almost all the wealth in the world and no true friends or healthy hobbies ... )
+come on , whoever believes 12 idiots with box cutters took the towers down are out of their minds .. Why should u believe your government , the one who denied serious research on the case early on ... That alone should be proof of , at least the fact that the true story is not the official one , no need to go any further than that really , let's keep it simple folks ..
Another terrorist attack ? ... Sure could be ... But if it serves again the people in charge ... Oh well I don't believe in coincidences or dumb luck. Wake up people ... It's simple .. claim your birthright and get back your freedoms ... The wonderful American Constitution still protects the individual if you know to claim your natural freedom and your association to the corporation which is the state , which you are in a contract of ownership with ...
What do I say ? Make a state referendum , for a radical positive change ( which of course would discomfort the big boys ) in the system ... if the leaders won't comply , the whole game of cards fall and you're gonna destroy the system and take the peaces and build a new beginning ..
And anyways in a system where the financial system is something like ... Where do the money come from ? Oh well money are printed without being attributed to any resource or business or whatever , and those money who came from thin air are being borrowed for interest ... Ok guys what the hell is going on ? I tell you what .... the psychosis of the human species reached a boiling point and we should ditch the most sick psychotic leaders who lead us to the destruction of the planet ( well not the planet just the environment that sustains ourselves ) , and also the destruction of the poor and the middle class people ...
If any1 is offended by this post I apologies ... Just ... Wake up and stay together for a better future ... Simple good ideas for a new beginning , forget all the bureaucracy and the legal fiction ..
Anytime you need to use the words "wake up people" it makes it clear that you are spewing bullshit and randoms facts or information :D This isn't the thread to discuss dumb theories that you made up.
here is the fictional life story plot of joey and mikey brothers from bumfuck texasistan. they happen to live in a palace that is very big and white and sometimes gray.
past. mikey: hey joey joey: hey mikey mikey: look there is a nice oil flowing in this area and they call it Balcans joey: whose cans r those mikey: dem communitss joey: damn commnuists
present. mikey: joey! joey: mikey! mikey: i think we have found another oil source joey: nice one mikey: it is in the middle of eastern realms joey: dem muslins mikey: damn mislins
very near future. mikey: damn seed of bolsevik joey: what is it mikey mikey: commintits are interested in the lands at north pole, they are claiming that its rightfully theirs according to UN border rules. joey: who gives a shit man mikey: there is oil there under igloos duuuude joey: dem commimints mikey: damn..
On September 11 2011 08:14 bOne7 wrote: +come on , whoever believes 12 idiots with box cutters took the towers down are out of their minds ..
12 idiots with box cutters and JUMBO JETS
But I agree with you about how the government is really overestimating the terrorist threat, especially now that OBL is dead.
Funny, people were pissed that the government received threats about the twin towers and everyone was pissed that they didn't react. Now everyone questions their reaction.
On September 11 2011 08:14 bOne7 wrote: +come on , whoever believes 12 idiots with box cutters took the towers down are out of their minds ..
12 idiots with box cutters and JUMBO JETS
But I agree with you about how the government is really overestimating the terrorist threat, especially now that OBL is dead.
Yea it's not like they were collage graduates/students and trained for a year for the event. Personally I think anyone who claims that they are idiot is either one themselves or ignorant.
On September 11 2011 08:14 bOne7 wrote: +come on , whoever believes 12 idiots with box cutters took the towers down are out of their minds ..
12 idiots with box cutters and JUMBO JETS
But I agree with you about how the government is really overestimating the terrorist threat, especially now that OBL is dead.
Yea it's not like they were collage graduates/students and trained for a year for the event. Personally I think anyone who claims that they are idiot is either one themselves or ignorant.
I didn't know they were that well educated, but I know the flight instructors who had been training them said they were pretty poor students when it came to flight training.
On September 11 2011 08:14 bOne7 wrote: This is such a joke ... Compare the numbers between civilians killed by all the terrorist groups in our entire recorded history against the number of civilians "accidentally" killed by the US army or any other US special agency .
Let's see who is the real terrorist . Numbers people ... numbers ... Whether or not the conspiracies are true or not , at the very least the US became the crazy empire who is tripping over it's own ego trying to .. idk ... Nothing makes sense now , maybe the top leaders are pure incompetent morons and if not , then they are controlled by some morons that unfortunately have all the money ( Conspiracy or no conspiracy I believe it brings no good to have almost all the wealth in the world and no true friends or healthy hobbies ... )
+come on , whoever believes 12 idiots with box cutters took the towers down are out of their minds .. Why should u believe your government , the one who denied serious research on the case early on ... That alone should be proof of , at least the fact that the true story is not the official one , no need to go any further than that really , let's keep it simple folks ..
Another terrorist attack ? ... Sure could be ... But if it serves again the people in charge ... Oh well I don't believe in coincidences or dumb luck. Wake up people ... It's simple .. claim your birthright and get back your freedoms ... The wonderful American Constitution still protects the individual if you know to claim your natural freedom and your association to the corporation which is the state , which you are in a contract of ownership with ...
What do I say ? Make a state referendum , for a radical positive change ( which of course would discomfort the big boys ) in the system ... if the leaders won't comply , the whole game of cards fall and you're gonna destroy the system and take the peaces and build a new beginning ..
And anyways in a system where the financial system is something like ... Where do the money come from ? Oh well money are printed without being attributed to any resource or business or whatever , and those money who came from thin air are being borrowed for interest ... Ok guys what the hell is going on ? I tell you what .... the psychosis of the human species reached a boiling point and we should ditch the most sick psychotic leaders who lead us to the destruction of the planet ( well not the planet just the environment that sustains ourselves ) , and also the destruction of the poor and the middle class people ...
If any1 is offended by this post I apologies ... Just ... Wake up and stay together for a better future ... Simple good ideas for a new beginning , forget all the bureaucracy and the legal fiction ..
im curious where do you stand on bigfoot and elvis being alive?
On September 11 2011 08:14 bOne7 wrote: This is such a joke ... Compare the numbers between civilians killed by all the terrorist groups in our entire recorded history against the number of civilians "accidentally" killed by the US army or any other US special agency .
Let's see who is the real terrorist . Numbers people ... numbers ... Whether or not the conspiracies are true or not , at the very least the US became the crazy empire who is tripping over it's own ego trying to .. idk ... Nothing makes sense now , maybe the top leaders are pure incompetent morons and if not , then they are controlled by some morons that unfortunately have all the money ( Conspiracy or no conspiracy I believe it brings no good to have almost all the wealth in the world and no true friends or healthy hobbies ... )
+come on , whoever believes 12 idiots with box cutters took the towers down are out of their minds .. Why should u believe your government , the one who denied serious research on the case early on ... That alone should be proof of , at least the fact that the true story is not the official one , no need to go any further than that really , let's keep it simple folks ..
Another terrorist attack ? ... Sure could be ... But if it serves again the people in charge ... Oh well I don't believe in coincidences or dumb luck. Wake up people ... It's simple .. claim your birthright and get back your freedoms ... The wonderful American Constitution still protects the individual if you know to claim your natural freedom and your association to the corporation which is the state , which you are in a contract of ownership with ...
What do I say ? Make a state referendum , for a radical positive change ( which of course would discomfort the big boys ) in the system ... if the leaders won't comply , the whole game of cards fall and you're gonna destroy the system and take the peaces and build a new beginning ..
And anyways in a system where the financial system is something like ... Where do the money come from ? Oh well money are printed without being attributed to any resource or business or whatever , and those money who came from thin air are being borrowed for interest ... Ok guys what the hell is going on ? I tell you what .... the psychosis of the human species reached a boiling point and we should ditch the most sick psychotic leaders who lead us to the destruction of the planet ( well not the planet just the environment that sustains ourselves ) , and also the destruction of the poor and the middle class people ...
If any1 is offended by this post I apologies ... Just ... Wake up and stay together for a better future ... Simple good ideas for a new beginning , forget all the bureaucracy and the legal fiction ..
Anytime you need to use the words "wake up people" it makes it clear that you are spewing bullshit and randoms facts or information :D This isn't the thread to discuss dumb theories that you made up.
Haha yeah I can't stand when people use phrases like "Open your eyes" or "wake up", instant idiocy stamp from my part.
I don't mind any discussion regarding just about any subject, nothing is tabu for me, but I just wish people would use more facts and less blabbering out of their arse.
Can't wait until this day passes so I can stop hearing about it in the news... christ
The amount of misinformation that gets spewed on the topics of foreign politics and American government is absolutely mind-blowing.
Also, conspiracy theorists.... instead of watching so many movies, you should get a job in the government sector. You'll realize pretty quickly how utterly ridiculous your theories are.
Stop the country bashing, and the conspiracy theories or bans will start to be handed out.
Rephrase to ''stop USA bashing''?
Apparently you can say
EU countries follow the US like the sheep they are
and be just fine. Dem double standards.
I guess anything can be taken out of context with the bulk of the quote missing. Nice try I suppose.
Uh okay? The context of the post doesn't change the fact that you called all the countries in the EU ''sheep''.
Yes and there are plenty of posts in plenty of threads all over the place that bash the US much more than using the word 'sheep' calling countries sheep once when that's not even the focus of the post is not serious enough to deserve a ban, and I think it's a double standard to see US bashing all over the place then get worked up over 1 silly word.
Err.. pretty much every post in this thread (that has a note about country bashing at the top btw) that has the slightest hint of anti US wording gets a warning, and worse offenses get a ban.
I'm hardly calling for a ban here, a warning would be 100% in line with the majority of other posts that got warned in this thread, however - but the post bashes the EU, not the US.
Anyway, seeing as im not worked up in the slightest and all im doing at this point is derailing and arguing semantics... laters.
It took this thread to finally give out warnings to the "America bashers". Nearly every other political thread gets derailed, because some idiot mentions US politics. This time it only took 10 pages to give out warnings/bans to all the retards spewing garbage instead of the usual 30-50 pages.
On September 11 2011 14:41 BluePanther wrote: The amount of misinformation that gets spewed on the topics of foreign politics and American government is absolutely mind-blowing.
Also, conspiracy theorists.... instead of watching so many movies, you should get a job in the government sector. You'll realize pretty quickly how utterly ridiculous your theories are.
I've suspected for a while that the 10 year anniversary would be the ideal time to plan another attack. I'm not surprised there is talk about it. 10 years has a lot of symbolism.
I hope today goes off peacfully. When the government says there is a credible and specific threat, they do it for a reason.
Now that there is such buzz regarding the possibility of an attack it won't happen. When the US or other government agencies have had solid, credible intel regarding an attack with enough time beforehand, it has either not happened or was thwarted. Maybe some of the attacks didn't happen BECAUSE of the extra attention authorities were giving to the situation.
When I begin worry about things like "liberties" and "fear" and how each have changed in these past 10 years. I think about the men and women AROUND THE WORLD that are putting their lives on the line everyday making sure that extremists do not get their way. They're real people just like you and I, with families, and some of them even with a passion for eSports. I'm not really so much talking about the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm talking about the Police, Border Patrol, Customs officials, Homeland Security, etc... These people are the unsung heroes of our modern day. Putting all political bickering aside...Lets hope that today these hard working individuals have a quiet and peaceful day.
Still when 9/11 first occurred there was plenty of evidence that a terrorist attack might occur that day and I believe I heard that the intel also suggested planes would be invloved. I seem to remember a 20/20 show or something of that sort doing a special about terrorism earlier that same year and they named Osama bin laden as the most likely candidate for someone capable of a successfull terrorist plot/attempt. Primarily cause of his already known anti-american sentiment and available monetary resources. And still, we all know what happened.
I, however, believe no act of terrorism will occur today, and only thanks to the preemptive action taken by our government agencies, namely homeland security, FBI, CIA.
On September 11 2011 16:50 drumsetjunky wrote: I think about the men and women AROUND THE WORLD that are putting their lives on the line everyday making sure that extremists do not get their way. They're real people just like you and I, with families, and some of them even with a passion for eSports. I'm not really so much talking about the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm talking about the Police, Border Patrol, Customs officials, Homeland Security, etc... These people are the unsung heroes of our modern day. Putting all political bickering aside...Lets hope that today these hard working individuals have a quiet and peaceful day.
I'd prefer to hope that everyone has a quiet and peaceful day everyday, rather than beating my swelling flag-emblazoned chest and yodeling with a tear in my eye about a particular set of people who choose a particular line of work.
EPT
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