EPTOn September 12 2011 22:22 kwizach wrote:
I did not say he was faster, I said had Flash had no edge over him. What speed feats can you show that would indicate Flash is faster? The surfer can travel through space at billions of times the speed of light (Scan 1 - Scan 2), and he can travel through time thanks to his speed just like Flash. How the hell could Flash hope to compete against someone who is at least his match in terms of speed and who destroys him in every other department, including strength, durability, standard senses, cosmic awareness, psi abilities, energy blasts, energy and matter manipulation, energy absorption, transmutation, healing, teleportation, creating illusions, etc. etc.?
Silver Surfer has Power Cosmic, Flash does not. GG.Show nested quote +
On September 12 2011 21:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:
In the DC Universe, Flash is the fastest being in existence, excluding the omnipotent (Like Superman Prime etc). Why do you persist in saying Silver Surfer is faster with no frame of reference? Is he legitimately the fastest being in the universe in Marvel?
On September 12 2011 21:27 kwizach wrote:
I believe you are thinking of Quasar, the latter attended the meeting with the abstract beings regarding Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet only because he was Epoch's champion.
Most people believe the Silver Surfer would clearly defeat Sentry, since Sentry has never achieved anything on panel that would put him on SS's level. He got stalemated (well, he technically got beat) by World War Hulk and the Terrax he defeated was only a pale copy of the Terrax of the 1980s and 1990s. Since when is he immune to the power cosmic?
Absolutely nothing indicates that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer when it comes to reaction time. Even without his board, the Surfer would therefore quite easily defeat Flash with the power cosmic. Again, the Surfer is more powerful than Flash in every single other department, and has displayed speed feats at least equal to Flash's. See this Silver Surfer respect thread.
On September 12 2011 20:55 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Sentry i think almost counts as a celestial on the same level with galactus and watcher right? He was allowed to be in attendance of their meeting for the battle with thanos with tribunal present as well as eternity/infinity.
He would surely beat surfer as he is immune to the power cosmic. That at least i would agree, i just dont know where or howto place him though. He is human but is he still mortal? I dont know much about his lore beyond that which ive stated.
Sentry i think almost counts as a celestial on the same level with galactus and watcher right? He was allowed to be in attendance of their meeting for the battle with thanos with tribunal present as well as eternity/infinity.
He would surely beat surfer as he is immune to the power cosmic. That at least i would agree, i just dont know where or howto place him though. He is human but is he still mortal? I dont know much about his lore beyond that which ive stated.
I believe you are thinking of Quasar, the latter attended the meeting with the abstract beings regarding Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet only because he was Epoch's champion.
Most people believe the Silver Surfer would clearly defeat Sentry, since Sentry has never achieved anything on panel that would put him on SS's level. He got stalemated (well, he technically got beat) by World War Hulk and the Terrax he defeated was only a pale copy of the Terrax of the 1980s and 1990s. Since when is he immune to the power cosmic?
On September 12 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
What makes you think this? Flash is fast enough to act on Super Prime, how is Silver Surfer somehow cosmically better than him?
Also, as if Flash needs air to live (He's literally ran into nothingness), or is if a Black Hole would beat him. Silver Surfer, in all iterations, is always shown as having to do some gesture or action to make things happen. It's not like he's infallibly omnipotent and everything he ever wants happens at will with no thought or delay. I think you're really overblowing the Silver Surfer.
On September 12 2011 20:52 kwizach wrote:
The surfer has been shown to be able to fly without his board in the past, but I don't recall seeing him go as fast (I might be wrong). That's still irrelevant though, since he retains his reaction time, which is more than fast enough to blast Flash into oblivion, send him into a black hole, remove the air from around him, shrink him to the size of an ant, etc. etc. before Flash can even come close.
On September 12 2011 20:43 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
On September 12 2011 19:15 kwizach wrote:
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
On September 12 2011 18:16 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote:
So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force
2. Shiny Superman Prime
3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie)
4. Thor
5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force
2. Shiny Superman Prime
3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie)
4. Thor
5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
The surfer has been shown to be able to fly without his board in the past, but I don't recall seeing him go as fast (I might be wrong). That's still irrelevant though, since he retains his reaction time, which is more than fast enough to blast Flash into oblivion, send him into a black hole, remove the air from around him, shrink him to the size of an ant, etc. etc. before Flash can even come close.
What makes you think this? Flash is fast enough to act on Super Prime, how is Silver Surfer somehow cosmically better than him?
Also, as if Flash needs air to live (He's literally ran into nothingness), or is if a Black Hole would beat him. Silver Surfer, in all iterations, is always shown as having to do some gesture or action to make things happen. It's not like he's infallibly omnipotent and everything he ever wants happens at will with no thought or delay. I think you're really overblowing the Silver Surfer.
Absolutely nothing indicates that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer when it comes to reaction time. Even without his board, the Surfer would therefore quite easily defeat Flash with the power cosmic. Again, the Surfer is more powerful than Flash in every single other department, and has displayed speed feats at least equal to Flash's. See this Silver Surfer respect thread.
In the DC Universe, Flash is the fastest being in existence, excluding the omnipotent (Like Superman Prime etc). Why do you persist in saying Silver Surfer is faster with no frame of reference? Is he legitimately the fastest being in the universe in Marvel?
I did not say he was faster, I said had Flash had no edge over him. What speed feats can you show that would indicate Flash is faster? The surfer can travel through space at billions of times the speed of light (Scan 1 - Scan 2), and he can travel through time thanks to his speed just like Flash. How the hell could Flash hope to compete against someone who is at least his match in terms of speed and who destroys him in every other department, including strength, durability, standard senses, cosmic awareness, psi abilities, energy blasts, energy and matter manipulation, energy absorption, transmutation, healing, teleportation, creating illusions, etc. etc.?
