I'm proposing two questions in this thread, and hopefully, TL members have extensive knowledge and we can have a thoughtful discussion.
*EDIT* Since a lot of people are asking, I'm going to add this: Anyone you believe to be a superhero, you can count. If you think there may be disagreement on his hero status, make your case on it then.
1) Who's your favorite superhero? 2) Who do you believe to be the most powerful hero?
Now I understand that question 2 is a bit broad, since different heroes thrive in different situations. When you're stating what hero you believe to be the most powerful, please state the "criteria" of the battle.
For example:
1) In a straight up fight, I would put Superman as the most powerful. With superspeed AND strength, he could easily push around other heroes, either overpowering them or just getting around their power.
2) However, what if there's adequate time of preparation? Who has the most potential?
I think Batman has been proven to be capable of beating Superman. Superman is the best in raw strength and super powers, but Batman has the intelligence to beat it.
1) Captain America (Bucky Barnes). Just liked his character, his personality, yea he's not super powerful, but he's a man trying to atone for his misdeeds as the winter soldier and carrying on a legacy.
2) Scarlett Witch Her power is to affect reality and change it, she could with a few words destroy the universe and anything in it.
She depowered a huge % of the mutant populace with the words 'No more Mutants', she killed Hawkeye and wiped him from existence, then brought him back. She also recreated and reshaped reality to a world in which she thought was ideal, but it failed and she set it back while destroying the mutant populace in 3 words.
On September 10 2011 04:36 hrmM wrote: I think Batman has been proven to be capable of beating Superman. Superman is the best in raw strength and super powers, but Batman has the intelligence to beat it.
Depends which superman your talking bout. Superman Prime has no weaknesses, punches can shatter space and time, and is immune to kryptonite.
1) Either Spider-man or Batman. I like them both so much it's tough to choose. 2) I think Superman is the most powerful, with all his different abilities. Of course, he has a weakness, while many other superheroes don't. So given an adequate amount of preparation any other superhero could potentially beat him
1. My favorite is Superman, because he's the most unique. He was born Superman and his cape is his actual everyday outfit. His alterego/costume is Clark Kent, with the suit and glasses. He's an actual superhero by nature, whereas Batman is just a guy dressing up as a bat...
2. Superman, no other superhero would even touch Superman. Oh Batman is holding a piece of Kryptonite? Ok, Superman just flies high in the sky and would use his thermal lances to melt Batman. GG. Seriously, Superman is the god superheroes. He can easily avoid anything with his super speed, and would see anything coming his way with his xray vision.
I like superheroes with flaws, so not the almighty always doing the right thing superheroes (like superman) but more the 'I do what is right for me, but the world may think different' superheroes (like Yagami Light (I see him as a superhero)).
So favourite superhero: Iron Man Strongest superhero: superman (fucking lasereyes + superspeed)
I'm pretty sure it's Flash. He is so fast there is no way you can stop him. In the comics/shows they always show people "predicting" where he is going to go and hitting him but at the speed he is moving everyone else would be in slo-mo and he would easily react to their predictions. You can't beat someone traveling near light-speed. It isn't even a competition really.
[QUOTE]On September 10 2011 04:47 mints wrote: 1. My favorite is Superman, because he's the most unique. He was born Superman and his cape is his actual everyday outfit. His alterego/costume is Clark Kent, with the suit and glasses. He's an actual superhero by nature, whereas Batman is just a guy dressing up as a bat...
My favorite is mints, because he quotes kill bill ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
OK lets clear the air. The Silver Surfer is the most powerful superhero ever:
The Silver Surfer wields the Power Cosmic, granting him superhuman strength, stamina, durability, senses and the ability to absorb and manipulate the universe's ambient energy for a variety of effects. The Surfer can navigate through interstellar space, dimensional barriers, and hyperspace, which he can enter to exceed the speed of light when flying on his board, and has even proven capable of time travel on several occasions, even able to make others time-travel with him.
His senses enable him to detect objects and energies light years away, and to perceive matter and energy in subatomic detail; he can even see through time, and with concentration can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity.
So lets get this straight. He has superhuman strength, stamina, duability and can manipulate TIME AND SPACE. He stays alive by converting matter directly to energy and can you know see into the future. He's like Dr. Manhattan meets Superman combined with the strength of the Hulk and the intelligence of Ozymandias.
Goku doesn't have shit on the silver surfer. Did I mention he can travel through time? He's like his own hyperbolic time chamber, but literally infinitely better.
The Hulk is weak to sound, Superman has cryptonite. You know what weakness the silver surfer has? No? That's right because he doesn't have one.
[QUOTE]On September 10 2011 04:57 saltymango wrote: [QUOTE]On September 10 2011 04:47 mints wrote: 1. My favorite is Superman, because he's the most unique. He was born Superman and his cape is his actual everyday outfit. His alterego/costume is Clark Kent, with the suit and glasses. He's an actual superhero by nature, whereas Batman is just a guy dressing up as a bat...
My favorite is mints, because he quotes kill bill ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [/QUOTE]
Everyone knows that's from Kill Bill Vol 2. Cmon now. Im just stating why hes my favorite. On another note, at least i know Im a superhero now
Favorite: Superman Most powerful: Whoever favored by the largest demographic amongst the readers, as shown for example in the Marvel vs. DC storylines...
On a more on topic/serious note (but seriously, speshul tactics): 1) My favorite superhero is Deadpool. I'm not really into comic books, but I really like to use Deadpool whenever I play MvC3, plus he's a total badass. 2) I think that preparation is an interesting thing to think about. I mean obviously if you know you're going to fight Superman, the obvious answer is get some kryptonite. But honestly, I think that every hero sort of has their own "Kryptonite." Personally when I think about comic books, I've come to think of krytonite as an archetype that is symbolic to show that superheroes are still mortal or have weaknesses.
As far as the strongest hero, I would have to say either Superman or Professor-X. Sure you can prepare for them, but if they wanted to they could prepare for you too.
The Silver Surfer wields the Power Cosmic, granting him superhuman strength, stamina, durability, senses and the ability to absorb and manipulate the universe's ambient energy for a variety of effects. The Surfer can navigate through interstellar space, dimensional barriers, and hyperspace, which he can enter to exceed the speed of light when flying on his board, and has even proven capable of time travel on several occasions, even able to make others time-travel with him.
His senses enable him to detect objects and energies light years away, and to perceive matter and energy in subatomic detail; he can even see through time, and with concentration can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity.
So lets get this straight. He has superhuman strength, stamina, duability and can manipulate TIME AND SPACE. He stays alive by converting matter directly to energy and can you know see into the future. He's like Dr. Manhattan meets Superman combined with the strength of the Hulk and the intelligence of Ozymandias.
Goku doesn't have shit on the silver surfer. Did I mention he can travel through time? He's like his own hyperbolic time chamber, but literally infinitely better.
The Hulk is weak to sound, Superman has cryptonite. You know what weakness the silver surfer has? No? That's right because he doesn't have one.
Again this comes back to which superman you are referring to. Superman Prime can time travel as well.. and no long has any weaknesses.
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes. Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality.
Not sure why Superman's viewed by so many as the best when he has such a glaring and debilitating flaw. Just slip some kryptonite in his food and he's a worthless hunk of flesh.
On September 10 2011 05:01 G_Wen wrote: The Hulk is weak to sound, Superman has cryptonite. You know what weakness the silver surfer has? No? That's right because he doesn't have one.
I'm not really a comic book fan but his weakness is his board right? if you get him off his board he's powerless. That's how it worked in the fantastic four movie atleast.
1. Depends on the last superhero movie I watched. Although superman is a bit above the others.
2. Peter Petrelli (not sure about the last name xD) from Heroes, absorbing powers from everyone he has met, oh hai superman *poof* he's absorbed superman's powers, oh hai silver surfer ...
On September 10 2011 05:07 StarCraft64 wrote: Not sure why Superman's viewed by so many as the best when he has such a glaring and debilitating flaw. Just slip some kryptonite in his food and he's a worthless hunk of flesh.
On September 10 2011 05:01 G_Wen wrote: OK lets clear the air. The Silver Surfer is the most powerful superhero ever:
The Silver Surfer wields the Power Cosmic, granting him superhuman strength, stamina, durability, senses and the ability to absorb and manipulate the universe's ambient energy for a variety of effects. The Surfer can navigate through interstellar space, dimensional barriers, and hyperspace, which he can enter to exceed the speed of light when flying on his board, and has even proven capable of time travel on several occasions, even able to make others time-travel with him.
His senses enable him to detect objects and energies light years away, and to perceive matter and energy in subatomic detail; he can even see through time, and with concentration can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity.
So lets get this straight. He has superhuman strength, stamina, duability and can manipulate TIME AND SPACE. He stays alive by converting matter directly to energy and can you know see into the future. He's like Dr. Manhattan meets Superman combined with the strength of the Hulk and the intelligence of Ozymandias.
Goku doesn't have shit on the silver surfer. Did I mention he can travel through time? He's like his own hyperbolic time chamber, but literally infinitely better.
The Hulk is weak to sound, Superman has cryptonite. You know what weakness the silver surfer has? No? That's right because he doesn't have one.
Again this comes back to which superman you are referring to. Superman Prime can time travel as well.. and no long has any weaknesses.
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes. Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality.
If Superman Prime counts, I'm going to invoke Spawn (from the crossover issue with Bone), wielding the powers of all superheros ever.
On September 10 2011 05:01 G_Wen wrote: OK lets clear the air. The Silver Surfer is the most powerful superhero ever:
The Silver Surfer wields the Power Cosmic, granting him superhuman strength, stamina, durability, senses and the ability to absorb and manipulate the universe's ambient energy for a variety of effects. The Surfer can navigate through interstellar space, dimensional barriers, and hyperspace, which he can enter to exceed the speed of light when flying on his board, and has even proven capable of time travel on several occasions, even able to make others time-travel with him.
His senses enable him to detect objects and energies light years away, and to perceive matter and energy in subatomic detail; he can even see through time, and with concentration can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity.
So lets get this straight. He has superhuman strength, stamina, duability and can manipulate TIME AND SPACE. He stays alive by converting matter directly to energy and can you know see into the future. He's like Dr. Manhattan meets Superman combined with the strength of the Hulk and the intelligence of Ozymandias.
Goku doesn't have shit on the silver surfer. Did I mention he can travel through time? He's like his own hyperbolic time chamber, but literally infinitely better.
The Hulk is weak to sound, Superman has cryptonite. You know what weakness the silver surfer has? No? That's right because he doesn't have one.
Again this comes back to which superman you are referring to. Superman Prime can time travel as well.. and no long has any weaknesses.
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes. Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality.
Wow now I know. I knew the original superman was insanely strong but this one blows everything out of the water. Not even Dr. Strange comes close. Btw where are you getting this info from? It must suck to be a villain in a universe where he's the superhero.
On September 10 2011 05:01 G_Wen wrote: OK lets clear the air. The Silver Surfer is the most powerful superhero ever:
The Silver Surfer wields the Power Cosmic, granting him superhuman strength, stamina, durability, senses and the ability to absorb and manipulate the universe's ambient energy for a variety of effects. The Surfer can navigate through interstellar space, dimensional barriers, and hyperspace, which he can enter to exceed the speed of light when flying on his board, and has even proven capable of time travel on several occasions, even able to make others time-travel with him.
His senses enable him to detect objects and energies light years away, and to perceive matter and energy in subatomic detail; he can even see through time, and with concentration can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity.
So lets get this straight. He has superhuman strength, stamina, duability and can manipulate TIME AND SPACE. He stays alive by converting matter directly to energy and can you know see into the future. He's like Dr. Manhattan meets Superman combined with the strength of the Hulk and the intelligence of Ozymandias.
Goku doesn't have shit on the silver surfer. Did I mention he can travel through time? He's like his own hyperbolic time chamber, but literally infinitely better.
The Hulk is weak to sound, Superman has cryptonite. You know what weakness the silver surfer has? No? That's right because he doesn't have one.
Again this comes back to which superman you are referring to. Superman Prime can time travel as well.. and no long has any weaknesses.
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes. Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality.
Wow now I know. I knew the original superman was insanely strong but this one blows everything out of the water. Not even Dr. Strange comes close. Btw where are you getting this info from? It must suck to be a villain in a universe where he's the superhero.
Superboy Prime is a villian.
He actually can be defeated, the entire Teen Titans roster brought him down.
Also for superman, a weakness to magic means Captain Marvel, Black Adam, Zatanna, Dr Fate and other magic wielders can take him down.
On September 10 2011 05:01 G_Wen wrote: OK lets clear the air. The Silver Surfer is the most powerful superhero ever:
The Silver Surfer wields the Power Cosmic, granting him superhuman strength, stamina, durability, senses and the ability to absorb and manipulate the universe's ambient energy for a variety of effects. The Surfer can navigate through interstellar space, dimensional barriers, and hyperspace, which he can enter to exceed the speed of light when flying on his board, and has even proven capable of time travel on several occasions, even able to make others time-travel with him.
His senses enable him to detect objects and energies light years away, and to perceive matter and energy in subatomic detail; he can even see through time, and with concentration can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity.
So lets get this straight. He has superhuman strength, stamina, duability and can manipulate TIME AND SPACE. He stays alive by converting matter directly to energy and can you know see into the future. He's like Dr. Manhattan meets Superman combined with the strength of the Hulk and the intelligence of Ozymandias.
Goku doesn't have shit on the silver surfer. Did I mention he can travel through time? He's like his own hyperbolic time chamber, but literally infinitely better.
The Hulk is weak to sound, Superman has cryptonite. You know what weakness the silver surfer has? No? That's right because he doesn't have one.
Again this comes back to which superman you are referring to. Superman Prime can time travel as well.. and no long has any weaknesses.
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes. Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality.
Wow now I know. I knew the original superman was insanely strong but this one blows everything out of the water. Not even Dr. Strange comes close. Btw where are you getting this info from? It must suck to be a villain in a universe where he's the superhero.
A psionic hero would be that strongest as a melee hero wouldn't be able to touch him. For instance Nate Grey, Franklin Richards, Phoenix or Professor X.
As for favorite hero hands down Batman for being a complete badass with the best and most unique villains.
Explained: The first Goku vs. Vegeta both of them are ~1500 power level (Freiza? says that vegeta and dedoria (the pink horns fat dude) are about the same power level, Dedoria's power level is ~1500). one month (recovery), 6 days (spaceship) later goku shows up on namek with ~80k power level (see ginyu vs goku )(before kiao-kin). That is aprox. 5333% power increase over 36 days. Goku is stronger than vegeta now because vegeta dies while trying to defeate frieza, where goku previals but lets frieza live... fast foward to the Androids.... 17 and 18 have infinity power. Cell absorbs them 18? and then battles vegeta after vegeta and trunks spends 1 day in the hyperbolic time chamber. vegeta half handedly beats cell with only android 18 absorbed. therefore cell is over 1xinifity power and vegeta is higher than that. So once Goku gets out of the hyperbolic time chamber he will be more powerful than vegeta which powerlevel is >1xinfinity. Goku can use kiao-ken up to x20...so goku's theoritical max power is >20xInfinity in short bursts... nobody can beat that....
TL:DR: goku's powerlevel > vegeta's powerlevel, Vegeta's powerlevel > cell's powerlevel (before perfect form), cells powerlevel (before perfect form) > 1xInfinity (from absorbing android 18 which powerlevel is 1xInfinity) THEREFORE goku's powerlevel is more than 1xInfinity...before super super saiyan...
In a zombie universe, that man exhales and the undead legions crumble. He also looks like a boss and could take out Solid Snake in CQC (though it would be close). Just give the man some quick-time events and I know he could even take out the mightiest of the mighty.
The Silver Surfer wields the Power Cosmic, granting him superhuman strength, stamina, durability, senses and the ability to absorb and manipulate the universe's ambient energy for a variety of effects. The Surfer can navigate through interstellar space, dimensional barriers, and hyperspace, which he can enter to exceed the speed of light when flying on his board, and has even proven capable of time travel on several occasions, even able to make others time-travel with him.
His senses enable him to detect objects and energies light years away, and to perceive matter and energy in subatomic detail; he can even see through time, and with concentration can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity.
So lets get this straight. He has superhuman strength, stamina, duability and can manipulate TIME AND SPACE. He stays alive by converting matter directly to energy and can you know see into the future. He's like Dr. Manhattan meets Superman combined with the strength of the Hulk and the intelligence of Ozymandias.
Goku doesn't have shit on the silver surfer. Did I mention he can travel through time? He's like his own hyperbolic time chamber, but literally infinitely better.
The Hulk is weak to sound, Superman has cryptonite. You know what weakness the silver surfer has? No? That's right because he doesn't have one.
Please. SS is not the most powerful superhero ever, Captain Atom can stomp on him any given day.
Living Tribunal Eternity The Celestials The Beyonder (in his original incarnation, pre "nerf")
As for my favourites:
Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Batman, Hulk, and Johnny the Homicidal Maniac.
EDIT: If we're talking more standard superheroes, Hulk is right up there in terms of strength and power(s); but Superman probably takes the cake, as I've heard his writing team refer to him as having the power to tear apart a solar system. He still doesn't hold a candle to the less common characters I mentioned above, though.
As for the "straight up fight" aspect of your question, the aforementioned heroes could literally make any other hero simply cease to exist. Wheeeee!
On September 10 2011 05:59 Canadium wrote: There is no question that Superman is the most powerful superhero..... Other than that. Deadpool. End of discussion.
On September 10 2011 04:33 PassiveAce wrote: If superman counts then he wins in just about every catagory. A better question is who is the best superhero that isnt superman.
kryptonite > superman. weak if you ask me.
Green Lantern actually has very limited/unexploitable weaknesses. FFS, he can make a kryptonite hammer.
On September 10 2011 04:33 PassiveAce wrote: If superman counts then he wins in just about every catagory. A better question is who is the best superhero that isnt superman.
kryptonite > superman. weak if you ask me.
Green Lantern actually has very limited/unexploitable weaknesses. FFS, he can make a kryptonite hammer.
Edit: God
Depends on the green lantern, I think Hal Jordan being able to bypass his ring's overrides and kill Krona make him probably the most powerful of them. Though dual rings would be better, Red/Green or Green/Blue might be best.
On September 10 2011 04:33 PassiveAce wrote: If superman counts then he wins in just about every catagory. A better question is who is the best superhero that isnt superman.
kryptonite > superman. weak if you ask me.
Green Lantern actually has very limited/unexploitable weaknesses. FFS, he can make a kryptonite hammer.
Edit: God
Flash would walk up to him and take his ring without Green Lantern even knowing what happened. You can't deal with light-speed travel. Too OP.
On September 10 2011 04:33 PassiveAce wrote: If superman counts then he wins in just about every catagory. A better question is who is the best superhero that isnt superman.
kryptonite > superman. weak if you ask me.
Green Lantern actually has very limited/unexploitable weaknesses. FFS, he can make a kryptonite hammer.
Edit: God
Flash would walk up to him and take his ring without Green Lantern even knowing what happened. You can't deal with light-speed travel. Too OP.
On September 10 2011 06:30 SkelA wrote: Dr. Manhattan ?
I dont think there is a hero that can beat him. How do you beat a god when you are just a superhero ?
yeah, seconded, though there are several virtually indistructible and godlike heroes in different lores, but from what i know most of them had some kind of weakness, Dr Manhatten didnt
favorite: tie between wolverine/batman (I love how wolverine is always getting ripped apart, but grits his way through it. And I love how batman plans for everything)
Unlike his mentor who is still a jerkass with dead parent issues at middle age, Dick is a surprisingly well-adjusted, social guy who is well-loved by pretty much everyone (particularly the ladies). Though not quite as inventive as Bruce, he's a better natural athlete, and having led superheroes since he was ten he can call on just about anyone (even villains, just by asking nicely) to help kick your ass. Also, he has the mostperfectfriendship in the entire DC universe with BFF Donna Troy.
1. Batman 2. Depends, a Hulk at full fury is generally considered the strongest physically. If you include reality distorting powers there's a ton. For the "all-around" hero, Superman is usually the pick most would go with.
Hmm, The strongest (as well as one of my fav chars) I would say to be Thanos either with his fully gemmed gauntlet or merged with the heart of the universe (with which he defeated Eternity, Galactus, and basically everyone else along with the universe if I recall correctly).
My favorites would probably be Juggernaut, Venom, Spidey, and of course Thanos.
LOL I made this superhero in Paint when I was in 6th grade. His name is Microwave Man. He is the strongest because he can use his powers of extreme radiation to create and army of superheros, and just give people a slow horrible death. Plus he's awesome.
On September 10 2011 04:31 CoolguyBad wrote: I'm proposing two questions in this thread, and hopefully, TL members have extensive knowledge and we can have a thoughtful discussion.
*EDIT* Since a lot of people are asking, I'm going to add this: Anyone you believe to be a superhero, you can count. If you think there may be disagreement on his hero status, make your case on it then.
1) Who's your favorite superhero? 2) Who do you believe to be the most powerful hero?
Now I understand that question 2 is a bit broad, since different heroes thrive in different situations. When you're stating what hero you believe to be the most powerful, please state the "criteria" of the battle.
For example:
1) In a straight up fight, I would put Superman as the most powerful. With superspeed AND strength, he could easily push around other heroes, either overpowering them or just getting around their power.
2) However, what if there's adequate time of preparation? Who has the most potential?
As for who is the most overpowered, Superman is damn imba. Like some heroes have their entire career built upon having like flight, super speed, super strength, etc. He has all of these and more. Totally overpowered, totally imba.
However, I think Dr. Manhattan is probably still stronger.
Favorite: Batman. He gets shit done without super powers. Just extreme amounts of money!
Strongest: Superman. He basically invincible. I remember watching the movie and when I saw him get shot in the eye point black I decided "wtf is the point of this guy?" He's either untouchable, or theres kryptonite around and hes a scrub. That being said, I've never read any superman comics so my ideas don't hold any real validity. Just my ideas from the movie
Favorites: Black Bolt and Dream Honestly anyone from The Sandman comic is badass.
When the first living thing existed, I was there, waiting. When the last living thing dies, my job is finished. I'll put the chairs on tables, turn out the lights and lock the universe behind me when I leave. ~ Death
My favourite would probably be Deadpool, just because of his fourth wall powers and just plain ol' insanity.
The strongest on the other hand is a very tricky subject. Most of you are stuck thinking physical strength, but that fails when stacked up against the ability to manipulate time. Any character, no matter the company, medium, or canon, that can pause, rewind and just plain old ignore the flow of time is going to be the strongest, for the plain old fact that they can fail a million times but we'll never know because they've gone back and finally found the one in a million way of saving everyone, beating the bad guy and getting the girl.
On September 10 2011 07:16 Minhoto wrote: My favourite would probably be Deadpool, just because of his fourth wall powers and just plain ol' insanity.
The strongest on the other hand is a very tricky subject. Most of you are stuck thinking physical strength, but that fails when stacked up against the ability to manipulate time. Any character, no matter the company, medium, or canon, that can pause, rewind and just plain old ignore the flow of time is going to be the strongest, for the plain old fact that they can fail a million times but we'll never know because they've gone back and finally found the one in a million way of saving everyone, beating the bad guy and getting the girl.
Go look at Ivo's Android that I linked, yeah, he can manage all that shit if he wants to.
superman can't be the best hero. i guess there is a least oen hero who hard-counters superman by being able to get kryptonite. who is it? and who's best really? so hard to tell.
Forgive me for picking the easy one, but Superman. I mean think about it, he was born a superhero, his disguise is pretending to be normal. I'm also a big fan of Batman, he owns bad guys with skill and smarts. He doesn't even have powers.
On September 10 2011 05:25 Lysanias wrote: Strongest; The HULK, the more angry he gets the more powerful he gets, it just never stops. Every comic guy should know that.
Favorite; Sabertooth, being a beast is best when your bad haha.
Any comic guy who remembers the various original series' would know that Silver Surfer put Hulk down without even thinking about it, and was going to cure him back to just being Bruce Banner, but he woke up and swung on SS, so he got all emo and left him to deal with it himself.
Dude Superman Prime is such a bad ass! I mean, theres no one who can match those powers and skills right? im no superhero nut, but he can do literally anything, hes preety much god. Superman Prime OP.
2) Hulk because he's a broken character. He can travel at the speed of light and has unlimited strength. This topic has been discussed before and I'm sure you can find a list of broken characters, including the Flash and many others. Definitely not Superman though.
Dude Superman Prime is such a bad ass! I mean, theres no one who can match those powers and skills right? im no superhero nut, but he can do literally anything, hes preety much god. Superman Prime OP.
Umm, from the link itself:
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence.
And from the description of The Presence, it's God. But that doesnt make a very interesting fight, a blink of an eye and every other superhero is out. Like a fight between the Borg and a bunny rabbit.
Dude Superman Prime is such a bad ass! I mean, theres no one who can match those powers and skills right? im no superhero nut, but he can do literally anything, hes preety much god. Superman Prime OP.
Umm, from the link itself:
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence.
The Presence is God in the DC multiverse... try googling?
By far far far far far the strongest super hero is Franklin Richards. The love child of that fantastic 4 couple.
His power is "reality warping" meaning anything he can imagine becomes true. Like when his entire family died he created a pocket universe for everyone dead to chill in.
So even if Goku was flying at him about to kill him, Franklin could just think "you don't exist" and he wins.
Super imba.
Also Onslaught, but the only reason he was powerful was because he absorbed Franklin Richards, Professor X, Magneto, and X-Man.
Or Franklin Richards alter ego Psi-Lord (future).
Basically anything to do with Franklin Richards is over powered.
Hahaha, I knew Flash was freaking powerful but this is beyond insane. I didn't know he could create things? Plus the powers of the last paragraphs are imba.
Dude Superman Prime is such a bad ass! I mean, theres no one who can match those powers and skills right? im no superhero nut, but he can do literally anything, hes preety much god. Superman Prime OP.
Well...I didnt actually read the article but isnt he getting power out of the sun? But he is immortal and wont even die when the universe collapses...wtf? Who invented this overly bs sh!t...
Some of his powers: Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing. Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead. Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun. Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see. Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time. All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced. Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse. Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings. Godlike Super Senses Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions. Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun. Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse. Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse. Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness. Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality.
I'm disappointed by the lack of Sandman. I mean your heroes are nice and all but this guy CREATED them, all of them and all the gods with them. He isn't even a person technically, you can't even harm him and even if by some magic you were able to, that's still just a single facet of him. He ain't call an Endless for nothing.
DC Universe: Destiny (From the endless). Immortal. Like all the endless, the only way to kill him is to kill every sentient being in the universe. Omniscient: He has a book with everything that has happened, will ever happen and could possibly happen. Omnipresent. He can be wherever, whenever and in whatever form he wants. Omnipotent within his realm. Virtually everything that has a destiny (including other deities) cannot defy him. He once took away supermans powers just to teach him a lesson. http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_352
Non deity/Former human: Dr. Manhattan. Can teleport through time and space. Can manipulate the universe on a quantum level including his own body, making him virtually immortal.
My favorite is Wolverine. As for the best I dunno, there seem to be a bunch of superheroes who can warp reality. If you can recreate the entire universe with a single thought you're pretty much unbeatable.
In the marvel comics there's a guy named Legion; in his mind he's got thousands of different personalities, and each one of them have a super power. So basically he's like bulrog, he has lots and lots of powers. Just name one, he has it. edit; also my favorites superheroes are;
Most powerful? Bah, it's a useless discussion. It's sort of like comparing Sci-fi ships to see which one's weapons have the most 0s in their energy output. Anyone can make the most powerful superhero, dumb argument.
The best super hero? Good argument.
The best super hero without a doubt is Zero from the Megaman X and Megaman Z series. Megaman X was built by Dr Light to wake up 100 years later and create a world where sentient robots, known as reploids, and humans lived together in harmony. Zero was created by Wily to destroy that dream. Instead Zero basically said #@$# no and wound up becoming X's best friend and partner. Ironically it was ultimately Zero that brought peace to humans and reploids.
To argue against superman, there are equally if not more powerful superheros in my opinion. Some examples:
1: Green lantern - Harnesses the power of will, is one of thousands of equally powerful soldiers; no known weaknesses 2: Thor - Hailed as a god by many, is one of many soldiers of comperable strength, possesses what is considered to be the most powerful weapon in existence; no known weaknesses 3: Black bolt - Basically a corollary to superman but basically stronger in every way. He can manipulate electrons to enhance physical aspects of his body to superhuman qualities. His voice is also so strong that a whisper can break every bone in the hulk's body. No weaknesses to silly rocks though, unfortunately. 4: The flash - Can move faster than any known being, including pre-crisis kryptonians (the superman version of superman, which by the way would also beat him in a fight). The flash can phase his hand through an enemies head, causing it to explode. He can also move so fast that his body phases through enemy attacks. No known weaknesses. 5: Martian manhunter - Just overall has all the same powers as superman and then some. Also no blatant weaknesses. 6: Captain atom - Basically as strong as superman and can manipulate energy almost as well as green lantern. No known weaknesses. 7: Red Star - Human nuke. Only weakness is attempting to harness his power.
Superman: The sole survivor of an obliterated race. Possesses no blatantly unique superpower. Weaknesses: close proximity to a special rock brings him to near death. Needs external intervention every time kryptonite is present.
There are hundreds of superheroes, and many thousands of characters in both the marvel and DC universes that are more powerful than superman. The most popular of these probably being thor, with green lantern about equal with superman most would say.
If you want to think of more powerful superheroes you can go beyond that to dragonball z where characters are 1 billion times more powerful than they need to be to destroy a planet.
Looking back at marvel you have characters that can destroy solar systems (Phoenix), Galaxies (Galactus) and universes (eternity). There are many characters far above even that. When Thanos wielded the infinity gauntlet he snapped his finger and half of the universe was immediately killed.
Above that are even more powerful beings that are omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, such as The One Above All (Marvel), and The Presence (DC).
Been viewing this site since beta and this is when I decide to post lol...
PS Mjolnir is no where near the most powerful weapon, excalibur, the ultimate nullifier, the infinity gauntlet and the heart of the universe are vastly (and I mean vastly) more powerful.
Infact odins spear (i forget the name) is actually more powerful than it as well.
For balance I will provide the best and most powerful super villain ever.
Consider this..
In Marvel mythology, the cosmic abstracts:
*Necessity (Eternity)
*Equity( Galactus)
*Vengeance (Mistress Death)
are BEYOND the Gods. Such as Odin, Thor, Hercules etc.
With that said..
Thanos has spent his entire existence holding court with the HIGHEST powers in the
Marvel Universe - The cosmic abstracts.
He is literally OF Vengeance (Mistress Death). Her consort. Her lover. Her worshiper.
Even Galactus and Eternity, who view the Gods as "lessors", are always respectful of The Titans presence.
Why are they respectful of Thanos?
It's because they know that Thanos possesses the most Dynamic (and Deadly) traits in Existence.
He has a unyielding Force of Will and combined with it is Intelligence.
Thanos's evolutionary Mind is never at Rest. It seeks Knowledge and Transformation. It demands answers.
And he is Courageous - perhaps more Courageous than most Heroes.
He fights Deep, Self Inflicted pain every day of his Life. He has faced and experienced Death more than once and Defeated it. He has crossed veil between both Worlds many times and reached Apotheosis twice.
He fears NOTHING - neither the Darkness nor the Light.
And his soul burns with Desires. The Desire for Advancement. The Desire for more Knowledge, and most importantly, the Desire for his Dark Queen.
Comics: Thanos war 1 Thanos war 2 The Infinity Gaunlet The Infinity Abyss The Heart of the Universe Annihilation Thanos Imperative The End
Goku is the strongest, has there been a comic that display that much power? I mean planets blew up with a finger blast. DBZ is the standard for our beloved Shonen Jump mangas like Naruto.
On September 10 2011 10:10 biaxiong wrote: Goku is the strongest, has there been a comic that display that much power? I mean planets blew up with a finger blast. DBZ is the standard for our beloved Shonen Jump mangas like Naruto.
On September 10 2011 09:38 Stropheum wrote: To argue against superman, there are equally if not more powerful superheros in my opinion. Some examples:
1: Green lantern - Harnesses the power of will, is one of thousands of equally powerful soldiers; no known weaknesses 2: Thor - Hailed as a god by many, is one of many soldiers of comperable strength, possesses what is considered to be the most powerful weapon in existence; no known weaknesses 3: Black bolt - Basically a corollary to superman but basically stronger in every way. He can manipulate electrons to enhance physical aspects of his body to superhuman qualities. His voice is also so strong that a whisper can break every bone in the hulk's body. No weaknesses to silly rocks though, unfortunately. 4: The flash - Can move faster than any known being, including pre-crisis kryptonians (the superman version of superman, which by the way would also beat him in a fight). The flash can phase his hand through an enemies head, causing it to explode. He can also move so fast that his body phases through enemy attacks. No known weaknesses. 5: Martian manhunter - Just overall has all the same powers as superman and then some. Also no blatant weaknesses. 6: Captain atom - Basically as strong as superman and can manipulate energy almost as well as green lantern. No known weaknesses. 7: Red Star - Human nuke. Only weakness is attempting to harness his power.
Superman: The sole survivor of an obliterated race. Possesses no blatantly unique superpower. Weaknesses: close proximity to a special rock brings him to near death. Needs external intervention every time kryptonite is present.
1. GL is a pussy... needs to wield a pussy little ring... that needs to charge every 24 hours or something 5. martian has a strong weakness to fire IIRC
I hate Superman, he's just... boring. Too powerful, bland look, stupid stories and weakness (seriously, he just takes off his glasses man!).
My favorite characters are all from mangas like a few other people in this thread but since it's super heroes :
Favorite : Probably Gambit from X-men or one of the transformers. I used to love him as a kid. To be honest I don't really follow anything related to super heroes, he's stayed my favorite all these years. I never really watched the X-Men but they are all my favorites overall. I watched the Spiderman and Batman stuff as a kid a ton but I grew out of it and don't really feel like they are anything amazing. Same with the TMNTs.
Strongest : Superman, despite my hatred of him.
I'd pick some from mangas but it's less super heroes and more just characters so it's hard to choose.
On September 10 2011 09:57 Warrior Madness wrote: For balance I will provide the best and most powerful super villain ever.
Consider this..
In Marvel mythology, the cosmic abstracts:
*Necessity (Eternity)
*Equity( Galactus)
*Vengeance (Mistress Death)
are BEYOND the Gods. Such as Odin, Thor, Hercules etc.
With that said..
Thanos has spent his entire existence holding court with the HIGHEST powers in the
Marvel Universe - The cosmic abstracts.
He is literally OF Vengeance (Mistress Death). Her consort. Her lover. Her worshiper.
Even Galactus and Eternity, who view the Gods as "lessors", are always respectful of The Titans presence.
Why are they respectful of Thanos?
It's because they know that Thanos possesses the most Dynamic (and Deadly) traits in Existence.
He has a unyielding Force of Will and combined with it is Intelligence.
Thanos's evolutionary Mind is never at Rest. It seeks Knowledge and Transformation. It demands answers.
And he is Courageous - perhaps more Courageous than most Heroes.
He fights Deep, Self Inflicted pain every day of his Life. He has faced and experienced Death more than once and Defeated it. He has crossed veil between both Worlds many times and reached Apotheosis twice.
He fears NOTHING - neither the Darkness nor the Light.
And his soul burns with Desires. The Desire for Advancement. The Desire for more Knowledge, and most importantly, the Desire for his Dark Queen.
Comics: Thanos war 1 Thanos war 2 The Infinity Gaunlet The Infinity Abyss The Heart of the Universe Annihilation Thanos Imperative
I hear he's kind of weak to squirrels...Any truth in this?
Dude Superman Prime is such a bad ass! I mean, theres no one who can match those powers and skills right? im no superhero nut, but he can do literally anything, hes preety much god. Superman Prime OP.
Actually can't he be beaten easily by any character that can time travel since they can just kill him as a baby.
On September 10 2011 09:38 Stropheum wrote: To argue against superman, there are equally if not more powerful superheros in my opinion. Some examples:
1: Green lantern - Harnesses the power of will, is one of thousands of equally powerful soldiers; no known weaknesses 2: Thor - Hailed as a god by many, is one of many soldiers of comperable strength, possesses what is considered to be the most powerful weapon in existence; no known weaknesses 3: Black bolt - Basically a corollary to superman but basically stronger in every way. He can manipulate electrons to enhance physical aspects of his body to superhuman qualities. His voice is also so strong that a whisper can break every bone in the hulk's body. No weaknesses to silly rocks though, unfortunately. 4: The flash - Can move faster than any known being, including pre-crisis kryptonians (the superman version of superman, which by the way would also beat him in a fight). The flash can phase his hand through an enemies head, causing it to explode. He can also move so fast that his body phases through enemy attacks. No known weaknesses. 5: Martian manhunter - Just overall has all the same powers as superman and then some. Also no blatant weaknesses. 6: Captain atom - Basically as strong as superman and can manipulate energy almost as well as green lantern. No known weaknesses. 7: Red Star - Human nuke. Only weakness is attempting to harness his power.
Superman: The sole survivor of an obliterated race. Possesses no blatantly unique superpower. Weaknesses: close proximity to a special rock brings him to near death. Needs external intervention every time kryptonite is present.
1. GL is a pussy... needs to wield a pussy little ring... that needs to charge every 24 hours or something 5. martian has a strong weakness to fire IIRC
I thought the Green Lanterns were weak to yellow, or wood, something really common.
my favorite hero= batman (dood could actually save the world if he put his money to good philanthropic use... and instead he decides to be a huge badass fighting crime in one city... hell yes)... and yes money is a super power... and also the cure for aids (see magic Johnson)
Best superhero = superman... is this a real question? He has whatever super powers are useful/relevant for the particular comics plot line.
On September 10 2011 10:15 aebriol wrote: Strongest: 1) Saint of Killers from Preacher. - He always hit what he aims for. - He can kill anything, including God. - He cannot be harmed.
Moreso it's because Batman has much more psychotic and realistic (using that terminology lightly) villians than any other superheroes, IMO it's the villains that made Batman 'Batman' not Batman that made the villain, if that makes sense.
On September 10 2011 09:38 Stropheum wrote: To argue against superman, there are equally if not more powerful superheros in my opinion. Some examples:
1: Green lantern - Harnesses the power of will, is one of thousands of equally powerful soldiers; no known weaknesses 2: Thor - Hailed as a god by many, is one of many soldiers of comperable strength, possesses what is considered to be the most powerful weapon in existence; no known weaknesses 3: Black bolt - Basically a corollary to superman but basically stronger in every way. He can manipulate electrons to enhance physical aspects of his body to superhuman qualities. His voice is also so strong that a whisper can break every bone in the hulk's body. No weaknesses to silly rocks though, unfortunately. 4: The flash - Can move faster than any known being, including pre-crisis kryptonians (the superman version of superman, which by the way would also beat him in a fight). The flash can phase his hand through an enemies head, causing it to explode. He can also move so fast that his body phases through enemy attacks. No known weaknesses. 5: Martian manhunter - Just overall has all the same powers as superman and then some. Also no blatant weaknesses. 6: Captain atom - Basically as strong as superman and can manipulate energy almost as well as green lantern. No known weaknesses. 7: Red Star - Human nuke. Only weakness is attempting to harness his power.
Superman: The sole survivor of an obliterated race. Possesses no blatantly unique superpower. Weaknesses: close proximity to a special rock brings him to near death. Needs external intervention every time kryptonite is present.
1. GL is a pussy... needs to wield a pussy little ring... that needs to charge every 24 hours or something 5. martian has a strong weakness to fire IIRC
I thought the Green Lanterns were weak to yellow, or wood, something really common.
Weak to yellow unless you can overcome great fear. The first green lantern (powered by the starheart) cannot affect wood. so basically throw a spear at him if he's fucked
Most Game-breaking: Reed Richards' kid was a reality warper wasn't he? Also Superman is pretty much a boring invincible hero, Jean Grey as the Phoenix was also fairy imbalanced.
On September 10 2011 09:57 Warrior Madness wrote: For balance I will provide the best and most powerful super villain ever.
Consider this..
In Marvel mythology, the cosmic abstracts:
*Necessity (Eternity)
*Equity( Galactus)
*Vengeance (Mistress Death)
are BEYOND the Gods. Such as Odin, Thor, Hercules etc.
With that said..
Thanos has spent his entire existence holding court with the HIGHEST powers in the
Marvel Universe - The cosmic abstracts.
He is literally OF Vengeance (Mistress Death). Her consort. Her lover. Her worshiper.
Even Galactus and Eternity, who view the Gods as "lessors", are always respectful of The Titans presence.
Why are they respectful of Thanos?
It's because they know that Thanos possesses the most Dynamic (and Deadly) traits in Existence.
He has a unyielding Force of Will and combined with it is Intelligence.
Thanos's evolutionary Mind is never at Rest. It seeks Knowledge and Transformation. It demands answers.
And he is Courageous - perhaps more Courageous than most Heroes.
He fights Deep, Self Inflicted pain every day of his Life. He has faced and experienced Death more than once and Defeated it. He has crossed veil between both Worlds many times and reached Apotheosis twice.
He fears NOTHING - neither the Darkness nor the Light.
And his soul burns with Desires. The Desire for Advancement. The Desire for more Knowledge, and most importantly, the Desire for his Dark Queen.
Comics: Thanos war 1 Thanos war 2 The Infinity Gaunlet The Infinity Abyss The Heart of the Universe Annihilation Thanos Imperative
I hear he's kind of weak to squirrels...Any truth in this?
Who isn't?
Obviously we know who the strongest super hero is definiteively.
Favorite: Batman because he can beat pretty much anyone with enough time for planning. Also, he is human with no super powers. And he still kicks way more ass than anyone else. Also, the character itself is pretty dynamic and interesting.
Flash and Doctor Manhattan are pretty easily the strongest superheroes. I think it's generally agreed by people on /co/ and websites dedicated to these kind of discussions that of all the traditional DC/Marvel heroes, The Flash is the most powerful.
I think Deadpool and Thanos aren't exactly superheroes, but anyway...
1.) Really tough, probably would say Jean Grey only because her arcs in the comics are the best ever. I also like Longshot/Domino (ability to change luck).
2.) In a realistic 1v1, The Flash has to be the most powerful. With intent to kill, you'd be dead before you could even do anything. In terms of raw power, it's probably someone with cosmic powers like Silver Surfer, Thor, or Scarlet Witch.
Strongest: Power scales in comics can be ridiculous sometimes with some superheroes being OP one second and then dying easily the other .Though I don't read much comics anymore so I can't say who is the strongest nowadays so I'll just guess Death from Sandman. Also not sure if already said but Sailor Moon. Not matter what the odds are she always seems to win at the end.
On September 10 2011 11:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Flash and Doctor Manhattan are pretty easily the strongest superheroes. I think it's generally agreed by people on /co/ and websites dedicated to these kind of discussions that of all the traditional DC/Marvel heroes, The Flash is the most powerful.
On September 10 2011 09:38 Stropheum wrote: To argue against superman, there are equally if not more powerful superheros in my opinion. Some examples:
1: Green lantern - Harnesses the power of will, is one of thousands of equally powerful soldiers; no known weaknesses 2: Thor - Hailed as a god by many, is one of many soldiers of comperable strength, possesses what is considered to be the most powerful weapon in existence; no known weaknesses 3: Black bolt - Basically a corollary to superman but basically stronger in every way. He can manipulate electrons to enhance physical aspects of his body to superhuman qualities. His voice is also so strong that a whisper can break every bone in the hulk's body. No weaknesses to silly rocks though, unfortunately. 4: The flash - Can move faster than any known being, including pre-crisis kryptonians (the superman version of superman, which by the way would also beat him in a fight). The flash can phase his hand through an enemies head, causing it to explode. He can also move so fast that his body phases through enemy attacks. No known weaknesses. 5: Martian manhunter - Just overall has all the same powers as superman and then some. Also no blatant weaknesses. 6: Captain atom - Basically as strong as superman and can manipulate energy almost as well as green lantern. No known weaknesses. 7: Red Star - Human nuke. Only weakness is attempting to harness his power.
Superman: The sole survivor of an obliterated race. Possesses no blatantly unique superpower. Weaknesses: close proximity to a special rock brings him to near death. Needs external intervention every time kryptonite is present.
1. GL is a pussy... needs to wield a pussy little ring... that needs to charge every 24 hours or something 5. martian has a strong weakness to fire IIRC
I thought the Green Lanterns were weak to yellow, or wood, something really common.
Weak to yellow unless you can overcome great fear. The first green lantern (powered by the starheart) cannot affect wood. so basically throw a spear at him if he's fucked
I just remember the quote, "You can defeat any Green Lantern with a No. 2 pencil".
I guess you could argue that death and destiny might be more powerful than dream. They are his older siblings and their powers can seem more impressive at first.
But destiny is bound to his book, he is subject to it as much as he knows it, he does not seem to be able to circumvent it. Death is definitely very expedient in her powers. But all she can do in the end is just kill her enemy. And some of these marvel heroes seem to be able to come back from wherever they are sent after death.
Dream on the other hand is well known to be more cruel than his older sister. His creativity and endless imagination allows him to go way beyond simple death. What good would superman or goku's power be if they were cursed by the eternal wake (you constantly wake up never knowing if you are still dreaming or not). That or he can just trap them in their worst nightmare for all eternity. Any thought, any ambitions, any hope, they all first come from dream. He can be a bit emo at time but it adds more dimension to his character than just a mary sue superman prime.
Only desire might be a bit more poisonous. If any enemy all of a sudden has no other want than to kill themselves they don't stand much of a chance no matter how much time or space they can travel.
Most Powerful: Hitchhiker's Guide 2.0. For those of you who do not know what that is you should read all of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books by Douglas Adams.
On September 10 2011 10:43 monx wrote: I tought Batman owned the hell out of Superman.
Batman wins because of plot armor. If you place him against another superhero in a vacuum he loses pretty much every time.
Thats the whole point of Batmans power though. So I don't think you can just disregard it and say "well Superman could just kick the crap out of him and shoot him with a laser beam".
Much more realistically (in a comical sense) Superman doesn't even know Batman is out to get him because they are allies. Batman knows his weakness and is much more willing to just take him out just for the sake of taking him out (Superman is too strong to have around). While Supermans character would probably prevent him from ever really wanting to hurt Bruce Wayne, unless he did something atrocious first. Its not just a video game, Plot matters.
Edit: I agree that Flash is probably the strongest Human dood though. Time travel and moving at the speed of light without dieing, is pretty much the bees knees of super powers. Not to mention he is a speedster who cannot run into shit and kill himself. + Show Spoiler +
On September 10 2011 09:17 Duban wrote: Most powerful? Bah, it's a useless discussion. It's sort of like comparing Sci-fi ships to see which one's weapons have the most 0s in their energy output. Anyone can make the most powerful superhero, dumb argument.
The best super hero? Good argument.
The best super hero without a doubt is Zero from the Megaman X and Megaman Z series. Megaman X was built by Dr Light to wake up 100 years later and create a world where sentient robots, known as reploids, and humans lived together in harmony. Zero was created by Wily to destroy that dream. Instead Zero basically said #@$# no and wound up becoming X's best friend and partner. Ironically it was ultimately Zero that brought peace to humans and reploids.
Plus, he's the only hero that can make long hair look badass.
That reminds me of Fei Fong Wong from the original Xenogears game for the ps1. Really sick RPG game with an epic ending. He starts out as just some guy from a small village. Ends with a super powerful ancient Mech to save the world. A lot of my favorite heroes come from "rpg's" and not comics.
BTW, most superheroes can crush Batman. Like superman could decapitate him throwing him a spoon, from 200 miles.
And Goku could just teleport Superman somewhere far away, then troll Louis Lane until he gets back, then repeat the process. Or he could just, you know, destroy the sun.
On September 10 2011 10:43 monx wrote: I tought Batman owned the hell out of Superman.
Batman wins because of plot armor. If you place him against another superhero in a vacuum he loses pretty much every time.
Thats the whole point of Batmans power though. So I don't think you can just disregard it and say "well Superman could just kick the crap out of him and shoot him with a laser beam".
Much more realistically (in a comical sense) Superman doesn't even know Batman is out to get him because they are allies. Batman knows his weakness and is much more willing to just take him out just for the sake of taking him out (Superman is too strong to have around). While Supermans character would probably prevent him from ever really wanting to hurt Bruce Wayne, unless he did something atrocious first. Its not just a video game, Plot matters.
Edit: I agree that Flash is probably the strongest Human dood though. Time travel and moving at the speed of light without dieing, is pretty much the bees knees of super powers. Not to mention he is a speedster who cannot run into shit and kill himself. + Show Spoiler +
On September 10 2011 09:17 Duban wrote: Most powerful? Bah, it's a useless discussion. It's sort of like comparing Sci-fi ships to see which one's weapons have the most 0s in their energy output. Anyone can make the most powerful superhero, dumb argument.
The best super hero? Good argument.
The best super hero without a doubt is Zero from the Megaman X and Megaman Z series. Megaman X was built by Dr Light to wake up 100 years later and create a world where sentient robots, known as reploids, and humans lived together in harmony. Zero was created by Wily to destroy that dream. Instead Zero basically said #@$# no and wound up becoming X's best friend and partner. Ironically it was ultimately Zero that brought peace to humans and reploids.
Plus, he's the only hero that can make long hair look badass.
That reminds me of Fei Fong Wong from the original Xenogears game for the ps1. Really sick RPG game with an epic ending. He starts out as just some guy from a small village. Ends with a super powerful ancient Mech to save the world. A lot of my favorite heroes come from "rpg's" and not comics.
As far as I remember, Superman can always know where Batman is, because of his (1) superhearing ability and his (2) X-Ray vision.
My favorite hero is Daredevil. I think it's the fact that the guy is blind and fighting with two measly sticks and a spandex costume that makes him ... well, not that powerful. His "poers" are actually a liability sometimes. He's gotten his butt kicked around by other heroes and enemies pretty often, but he always gets back up and keeps on going. I don't like the badass heroes who never lose, which is probably why I like DD. He's always the underdog.
Most powerful has to be Superman or Silver Surfer. Don't really care much for overpowered characters, unless the artist is pretty good.
On September 10 2011 10:43 monx wrote: I tought Batman owned the hell out of Superman.
Batman wins because of plot armor. If you place him against another superhero in a vacuum he loses pretty much every time.
Thats the whole point of Batmans power though. So I don't think you can just disregard it and say "well Superman could just kick the crap out of him and shoot him with a laser beam".
Much more realistically (in a comical sense) Superman doesn't even know Batman is out to get him because they are allies. Batman knows his weakness and is much more willing to just take him out just for the sake of taking him out (Superman is too strong to have around). While Supermans character would probably prevent him from ever really wanting to hurt Bruce Wayne, unless he did something atrocious first. Its not just a video game, Plot matters.
Edit: I agree that Flash is probably the strongest Human dood though. Time travel and moving at the speed of light without dieing, is pretty much the bees knees of super powers. Not to mention he is a speedster who cannot run into shit and kill himself. + Show Spoiler +
On September 10 2011 09:17 Duban wrote: Most powerful? Bah, it's a useless discussion. It's sort of like comparing Sci-fi ships to see which one's weapons have the most 0s in their energy output. Anyone can make the most powerful superhero, dumb argument.
The best super hero? Good argument.
The best super hero without a doubt is Zero from the Megaman X and Megaman Z series. Megaman X was built by Dr Light to wake up 100 years later and create a world where sentient robots, known as reploids, and humans lived together in harmony. Zero was created by Wily to destroy that dream. Instead Zero basically said #@$# no and wound up becoming X's best friend and partner. Ironically it was ultimately Zero that brought peace to humans and reploids.
Plus, he's the only hero that can make long hair look badass.
That reminds me of Fei Fong Wong from the original Xenogears game for the ps1. Really sick RPG game with an epic ending. He starts out as just some guy from a small village. Ends with a super powerful ancient Mech to save the world. A lot of my favorite heroes come from "rpg's" and not comics.
As far as I remember, Superman can always know where Batman is, because of his (1) superhearing ability and his (2) X-Ray vision.
Then the question is why does Superman care where Batman is? Batman has a plan to kill everyone, just because thats the way he is. Superman is much more trusting than that. There was already a Batman vs Superman comic, and guess what, Batman gets the shit kicked out of him.... and still WINS. Stop fighting it superman fan's, he still gets pwnt by a rock.
Also because me and my friends argue about this all the time. I do not think Batman is a superhero at all and would be beat by any superhero in existence.
The strongest superhero is obviously Goku. How do you defeat him? You cant. He was already over level 9000 before he turned super saiyan. Imagine how strong he would be when he is super saiyan four. Actually, dont imagine it because your brain will implode.
In the impossible scenario someone is about to kill him, he will use his emotions of anger and determination and transcend to another super saiyan (next one being super saiyan 5).
As well, how many powerful heroes have died as many as he has? The answer I believe is 0. And every time he does, he is somehow back to earth from some godawful plotline as a stronger saiyan. He also does not mind dying as much as many others would. It shows how that he has balls of steel to never be afraid.
I read that many believe the Flash can kill Goku. Say that when Goku destroys an entire planet with the Flash in it and peaces off to another.
Goku's only weakness: Chi chi. Chi chi can command Goku to do anything. She is Goku's pimp. She is the mongoose and Goku is the snake.
On September 10 2011 12:40 agarangu wrote: Best superhero: Goku. Strongest superhero: Goku.
BTW, most superheroes can crush Batman. Like superman could decapitate him throwing him a spoon, from 200 miles.
And Goku could just teleport Superman somewhere far away, then troll Louis Lane until he gets back, then repeat the process. Or he could just, you know, destroy the sun.
Well speaking as Uub and Gohan are both stronger than Goku, I am definately going to stick with Gohan.
The nice guy who CAN kill any/everything but would rather live the life of a pacifist only fighting at the utmost necessity. <<33
On September 10 2011 12:40 agarangu wrote: Best superhero: Goku. Strongest superhero: Goku.
BTW, most superheroes can crush Batman. Like superman could decapitate him throwing him a spoon, from 200 miles.
And Goku could just teleport Superman somewhere far away, then troll Louis Lane until he gets back, then repeat the process. Or he could just, you know, destroy the sun.
Well speaking as Uub and Gohan are both stronger than Goku, I am definately going to stick with Gohan.
The nice guy who CAN kill any/everything but would rather live the life of a pacifist only fighting at the utmost necessity. <<33
Uub and Gohan are not stronger than Goku when Goku is SS4. Uub was about Goku's strength when he wasnt a super saiyan, and Gohan can only go to SS2.
On September 10 2011 12:40 agarangu wrote: Best superhero: Goku. Strongest superhero: Goku.
BTW, most superheroes can crush Batman. Like superman could decapitate him throwing him a spoon, from 200 miles.
And Goku could just teleport Superman somewhere far away, then troll Louis Lane until he gets back, then repeat the process. Or he could just, you know, destroy the sun.
Well speaking as Uub and Gohan are both stronger than Goku, I am definately going to stick with Gohan.
The nice guy who CAN kill any/everything but would rather live the life of a pacifist only fighting at the utmost necessity. <<33
Uub and Gohan are not stronger than Goku when Goku is SS4. Uub was about Goku's strength when he wasnt a super saiyan, and Gohan can only go to SS2.
Overall Goku is just a tank
Arguably true but the GT arc I think messed up the story. Remember in the Z Saga, upon learning how to use the Z Sword Gohan had to renounce being a super saiyan or having that ability in order to defeat Buu. However in GT, he could.
Also, if we go by Z logic, Brolly is the "real" super saiyan of lore/legends and not Goku. Goku just proves the point that all saiyans can be super saiyan. However, there is this new manga I stumbled upon wherein Bardock was actually the first super saiyan after he got thrown in the past and was the beginning of the whole super saiyan legend with yellow hair. (It's in onemanga).
And if we go by GT logic, Goku ends up being the Dragon God and thus becomes the most powerful being the whole Dragon Ball Universe living beyond the years of Gohan, Goten or even Pan.
Favorite would have to be Gambit, he's just really cool in my opinion.
For strongest, I'll say that the most *potentially* powerful would be Rogue, since she could just steal powers from the strongest and be done with it. That being said, the one with the most inherent power would probably have to be Jean Grey in her Dark Phoenix form. I guess the argument could definitely be made that she was more of a villain with those enhanced powers, though.
Coolest: Suitengu from Speed Grapher, Readman from Read or Die, Simon (TTGL), Shichika (Bakemonogatari), Mugen (Samurai Champloo)... So many others. Just to keep up with the western comics, Spiderman or Batman too.
Strongest: Haruhi (she just doesn't know she can recreate the universe), Lelouch (looks Superman in the eye and tells him to kill himself), Azuma Kazuma (from Yakitate Japan... Who would want to kill the possessor of the Solar Hands, baker of heaven's bread?)
On September 10 2011 13:37 Janaan wrote: Favorite would have to be Gambit, he's just really cool in my opinion.
For strongest, I'll say that the most *potentially* powerful would be Rogue, since she could just steal powers from the strongest and be done with it. That being said, the one with the most inherent power would probably have to be Jean Grey in her Dark Phoenix form. I guess the argument could definitely be made that she was more of a villain with those enhanced powers, though.
I don't think the Rogue argument is true, since she can only steal mutant powers. If you put her up against Superman, for instance, he would just laugh. Or anyone who has powers that don't let her touch them.
It all depends how we define superhero. If a superhero is anything from comic books, then I'd go with Eternity, Infinity, Galactus, Celestials, Beyonder, etc. If we're talking humans in tights, probly The Flash.
The favourite is of course Batman, no question about that.
The strongest is either Plastic Man, or Doc Manhattan. He can just turn every atom in Superman's body into copper, and send it to different parts of the universe, before Supes could raise his arm.
My favorite is pretty much Wolverine. Hes nearly immortal.
Most powerful, I would have to go with Jean Grey (Phoenix). She hosts a being that can destroy planets with ease. How does Superman stand a chance against that?
Dr. Manhattan can't be true. he wouldn't even have beenn able to stop all soviet nukes... can someone enlighten me why squirrel girl is so powerfull? i didn't really get it from her wiki.
favorite: Batman. i love that he doesnt really have superpowers and still makes it work. strongest: probably superman prime. that guy simply has no weaknesses
On September 10 2011 16:46 phos4 wrote: Dr. Manhattan can't be true. he wouldn't even have beenn able to stop all soviet nukes... can someone enlighten me why squirrel girl is so powerfull? i didn't really get it from her wiki.
favorite: Batman. i love that he doesnt really have superpowers and still makes it work. strongest: probably superman prime. that guy simply has no weaknesses
Its a joke. Squirrel Girl is not REALLY that powerful but she has "defeated" a lot of big names like Doom, Thanos, and Deadpool.
On September 10 2011 16:46 phos4 wrote: Dr. Manhattan can't be true. he wouldn't even have beenn able to stop all soviet nukes...
Wasn't that just a prediction thou, he never acturally had to stop any. TBH Dr. Manhattan is my favourite "god" hero, simply because his personality is so detached. The fact that he had to be convinced to save earth is a welcome break from heroes like superman.
On September 10 2011 10:15 aebriol wrote: Strongest: 1) Saint of Killers from Preacher. - He always hit what he aims for. - He can kill anything, including God. - He cannot be harmed.
Why not the Preacher himself?
Man, that comic was good btw.
Because Preacher is vulnerable, and also, he just had a standoff with the saint of killers ... where the saint claimed he would be able to draw & kill before he could say a word
That no one can harm Saint of Killers is the clincher for me.
Not sure who my fav super hero is, but the best is easily The Flash, he can travel through time, go faster than the speed of light, go through solid objects and then blow them up and change the speed of objects. Why the Flash is the most overpowered super hero ever
Whenever my friends and I go through this debate, we always end up with the same conclusion:
"Batman's so smart he can just create an anti-(insert superhero name) spray, u mad?"
But personally, best hero is The Flash. He's like the epitome of overpowered. After you cross the threshold of "I can vibrate through any matter", whats there to kill you? If I were Flash I'd just run back in time and punch the un-born fetus of all my enemies.
Favorite is Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), the entire premise of his super power is not being a pussy. The source of his power is sheer "not a pussy"-nes. (and some dopey lantern once in a while) Inspiring.
Well i do not know if they count as superheroes, but as it is a relative term:
Favourite: Gabriel Angelos the commander of the Blood Ravens' 3rd Company and later to become the Chapter Master to the Blood Ravens. A truely kick-ass, all about in-your-face-with-a-chainsword character and a hero of mankind.
Strongest: This is a hard one for all the "super OP" heroes have ways of killing each other so ill leave this one blank. It will be an endless discussion.
Wow that guy's such an idiot. Just leave him alone -_- fucking immature kids on the internet being smart asses and thinking they're cool because they're "trolling" when they can't take shit themselves
1) Hmm, maybe Batman, but there's too many to choose from really :/ 2) Eh, Sylar? Logically, he can have the powers of every other superhero combined so yeah...
On September 10 2011 16:46 phos4 wrote: Dr. Manhattan can't be true. he wouldn't even have beenn able to stop all soviet nukes... can someone enlighten me why squirrel girl is so powerfull? i didn't really get it from her wiki.
favorite: Batman. i love that he doesnt really have superpowers and still makes it work. strongest: probably superman prime. that guy simply has no weaknesses
Its a joke. Squirrel Girl is not REALLY that powerful but she has "defeated" a lot of big names like Doom, Thanos, and Deadpool.
somehow she can beat just about anyone in the marvel univ, save for luke cage & jewel's baby
shes taken dr doom, thanos [powerful enough to kill off half the universe on a whim], and best wolverine in 1 on 1 combat wolverine is as good as captain america, who is as good as batman. considering wolverine, cap and batman have training while squirrel girl doesnt...
Favorite: Batman. Also quite partial to Spider-Man and a long time fan of classic anti-hero Vegeta.
Strongest: Superman. No contest.
Superman can stomp any other entry in this part. Many other heros have abilities like him, but few are as indestructible as he is. Hell, when Doomsday and Superman killed each other, it was explained away as the only reason it could be pulled off was because Doomsday was mindless and had no sense of self-preservation, so he killed Superman in a suicidal effort. Give any scenario to Superman's writing staff and they'll come up with a some BS about how he once again come out on top (like any other hero, really). The difference is, in the western world he is the golden standard of superheroism and so is essentially immortal because of it.
And just so y'know, Superman does have a weakness (I wouldn't call Kryptonite so much a weakness as it is a plot device) and it's magic.
2) Strongest - AGE in Bellcross form , from the Heroic age series. He can destroy entire solar systems and manipulate time and space and has no weaknesses and never tires or needs anything,since he has an infinite amount of power. His nodos power in the anime is existence itself.
I have no idea what his name is and I dont read comics but the guy from X-men First class who can absorb energy and use it for his own use. In other words he could just do anything ever.
Wow that guy's such an idiot. Just leave him alone -_- fucking immature kids on the internet being smart asses and thinking they're cool because they're "trolling" when they can't take shit themselves
Sorry for off-topic... but seriously...
Or maybe the idiot is the one who fails to see that classifying Jesus Christ as a saviour and not fictional character is as correct as doing the same to Batman.
Wow that guy's such an idiot. Just leave him alone -_- fucking immature kids on the internet being smart asses and thinking they're cool because they're "trolling" when they can't take shit themselves
Sorry for off-topic... but seriously...
Or maybe the idiot is the one who fails to see that classifying Jesus Christ as a saviour and not fictional character is as correct as doing the same to Batman.
I see it more as a "right back at you". Religious people (any religion) think it's their right to shove their beliefs down other peoples throats, so I find it hilarious when I see a juxtaposition. EDIT: Obviously I don't mean ALL religious people, just the fanatical ones.
Wow that guy's such an idiot. Just leave him alone -_- fucking immature kids on the internet being smart asses and thinking they're cool because they're "trolling" when they can't take shit themselves
Sorry for off-topic... but seriously...
Or maybe the idiot is the one who fails to see that classifying Jesus Christ as a saviour and not fictional character is as correct as doing the same to Batman.
I see it more as a "right back at you". Religious people (any religion) think it's their right to shove their beliefs down other peoples throats, so I find it hilarious when I see a juxtaposition. EDIT: Obviously I don't mean ALL religious people, just the fanatical ones.
I feel the exact same way. Julie deserved that tbh.
Wow that guy's such an idiot. Just leave him alone -_- fucking immature kids on the internet being smart asses and thinking they're cool because they're "trolling" when they can't take shit themselves
Sorry for off-topic... but seriously...
Or maybe the idiot is the one who fails to see that classifying Jesus Christ as a saviour and not fictional character is as correct as doing the same to Batman.
It doesn't matter who's right or wrong. I'm not complaining because I'm offended that someone just talked shit about Jesus. I'm angry because someone is purposely going out of his way to offend someone when he has no reason to other than to be a smart ass. If you see a post like that, just ignore it. You don't need to pick a fight you don't have any reason to be in. These kids however are picking fights on purpose to bother others to be smart asses because they think its funny and it bothers me.
Sorry for the off-topic but I felt I had to address this comment.
Dr. Manhattan is clearly the best. Not only is he one of the few superheroes with god-like powers, he is a former physicist and uses his powers to better understand the universe. This makes him the only god-like superhero capable of fully utilizing his own powers. Contrast to superman prime... "lifting the omniverse" doesn't make any sense as a power, even by superhero standards. The guy is obviously a little confused after thousands of years partying in another dimension.
Wow that guy's such an idiot. Just leave him alone -_- fucking immature kids on the internet being smart asses and thinking they're cool because they're "trolling" when they can't take shit themselves
Sorry for off-topic... but seriously...
Or maybe the idiot is the one who fails to see that classifying Jesus Christ as a saviour and not fictional character is as correct as doing the same to Batman.
It doesn't matter who's right or wrong. I'm not complaining because I'm offended that someone just talked shit about Jesus. I'm angry because someone is purposely going out of his way to offend someone when he has no reason to other than to be a smart ass. If you see a post like that, just ignore it. You don't need to pick a fight you don't have any reason to be in. These kids however are picking fights on purpose to bother others to be smart asses because they think its funny and it bothers me.
Sorry for the off-topic but I felt I had to address this comment.
the discussion startet with Glenn stating that Jesus is a: a superhero. b: the strongest superhero. i dont see why nobody schould confront that statement.
@munchmunch well, dr manhattens mindset isnt the best eather. make him feel uncomfordable and he loses fokus completely...
Mr. Fantastic challenges Prof. X to a game of chess. Even though Richards is smarter, Xavier cheats by reading his thoughts and wins. Magneto steps in, wearing his plot helmet, and beats Xavier to a pulp with his own wheelchair. The Flash runs by and puts one of the chess figures from the table to the ground. The nascent positional energy of the figure turns into a black hole that sucks up Magneto. While the Flash is celebrating, the Batman defeats him using an elaborate plot involving a paper-clip, a pencip, a bubblegum, and five million cellphones. Unfortunately, as a side effect of that plan, Bane breaks the Batman's back, again. The Hulk gets angry at this and makes a knot in Bane. Dr. Strange predicted that this would happen and turns up in time, using magic to calm down the Hulk. Then he proceeds with punching Bruce Banner into submission. In the meantime, Thor sneaks up on him from behind and softly puts Mjolnir on Dr. Strange's head, breaking his spine. Jean Grey (as the Phoenix) turns Thor into an overly handsome and unduly arrogant frog. Wolverine stabs Jean Gray in the back, just to piss off Cyclops. The Silver Surfer grabs Wolverine, turns his skeleton into magnesium, then flies with him into a super nova and watches Logan burn to a crisp. Superman Prime picks up the universe and shakes it really really hard so that the Silver Surfer falls out into the void. In the meantime, Mr. Fantastic has recovered from the loss of a game of chess, steals Galactus' ultimate nullifier and shoots the timeline of Superman Prime. Rinse and repeat.
On September 10 2011 04:48 Liveon wrote: I like superheroes with flaws, so not the almighty always doing the right thing superheroes (like superman) but more the 'I do what is right for me, but the world may think different' superheroes (like Yagami Light (I see him as a superhero)).
So favourite superhero: Iron Man Strongest superhero: superman (fucking lasereyes + superspeed)
LOLOL Oh god... Yagami Light as a superhero? Imma keel a million people, kuz if I keel a million people a billion people will live safer better lives! How utterly hypocritical is that? How is that any different from purging all people who are genetically inclined to homicide, just to be safe!
But I digress... anti-heroes are really awesome as you say. Rorschach <3
If we are including anime, I would put Simon from TTGL above Goku and Superman in power.
By the end of the second film, Simon's spiral power is implied to be infinite. He can also create matter out of nothing (defying the law of mass-energy conservation), as he occasionally uses his spiral energy (created from his will alone) to create new and exponentially larger versions of his Gurren Lagann mecha later in the series, by which point he creates weapons larger than most galaxies (or in the second Gurren Lagann film, weapons that are almost the size of a universe).[10] Later in the series, it shows him having powers on a multi-dimensional scale that can distort the spacetime continuum, while the epilogue shows Simon having metaphysical powers and compares him to a 'God', implying that he may have acquired omnipotence.
By the end of the series he stops using his powers as he could potentially destroy the universes as a side effect if he increase his spiral power any more than he already has.
On September 10 2011 18:57 Frozzen wrote: Favorite: Gary Bell from Alphas
Most powerful: Batman, if given preparation he would take down any and all of the above without breaking a sweat.
You really think Batman is the strongest? I would put him as one of the weaker ones tbh..hmm, maybe you know something I don't ><
It's an old joke. Basically, internet fanboys would argue that Batman could beat Superman--or anyone for that matter--if he were prepared for his specific opponent. Kind of reminds me of Nestea~
By the end of the second film, Simon's spiral power is implied to be infinite. He can also create matter out of nothing (defying the law of mass-energy conservation), as he occasionally uses his spiral energy (created from his will alone) to create new and exponentially larger versions of his Gurren Lagann mecha later in the series, by which point he creates weapons larger than most galaxies (or in the second Gurren Lagann film, weapons that are almost the size of a universe).[10] Later in the series, it shows him having powers on a multi-dimensional scale that can distort the spacetime continuum, while the epilogue shows Simon having metaphysical powers and compares him to a 'God', implying that he may have acquired omnipotence.
By the end of the series he stops using his powers as he could potentially destroy the universes as a side effect if he increase his spiral power any more than he already has.
no one is more powerful that root shiki from kara no kyoukai. Not sure if she is a classified as a super hero or not but she did stop some evil stuff happening.
Basically her body is connected to the "origin of everything" and she can see "death" with her eyes. If she touches or cuts the "death" lines, that thing is dead.
This power goes beyond living thing, time, space and energy all can be "destroyed". "death" is understood beyond our human's understanding, that is why she said as long as it is "Alive", she can even kill god. How the power works is basically she reconstruct the world and reform it without the existence of that thing she destroyed because of her unique body.
She once said she can reconstruct at molecular level for this world and so it can form an entire different world. She knows all things as she is linked to that "origin of everything"
the only flaw is that because she knows what will happen to the world, she doesn't really want to see the world and so this "root" personality is always sleeping and let the shiki personality take over
In case whoever is wondering what is "root of everything", read about "Akasha" and "Akashic Records" it is something like a storage that contains all possibility of past, present and future of the world
So yea, she is more powerful than all those "godly" characters in other universe to be honest, because she can just reconstruct the world to whatever she wants. Whether she cares or not is another question lol
Oh, what's that Superman? You're going to throw me into the sun? Well, I will fucking throw the sun at you! Oh whats that? you get stronger from the sun? Did I mention is was a red sun...your weakness? Where will I get one? mother fucking teleport, that's what!
Everything Superman can do, Goku can do better! Fly the speed of light? Please, Goku can instantly teleport.
Goku causes an earthquake just by being around! Superman only causes girls to scream.
Goku is immortal, he is already dead, and you can't kill what is already dead. Superman can just die, that's it.
Goku get's his powers from being awesome, Superman was just born that way, his race of people can die, Goku can not.
Everything that makes Superman powerful, Goku has already done, and more. Heat vision? bitch please, motherfucking 10X Kamehameha
Superman can punch the speed of light, well, so can mother fucking Goku. And Goku knows martial arts! Superman just punches wildly.
Not to mention, Goku has more gadgets than Batman!
Goku can pick up in one hand a planet of pure Krypton, and a red sun, and smash them together with Superman in the middle. What will superman do then? Try and run? Well, he isn't faster than a teleport, and Goku can always sense where Superman is anyway.
I still dont get whats the big deal about Goku. I mean ive watched dragonball z and shit but Goku is not immortal ( or im wrong? )
Superman Prime and Dr. Manhattan are immortal and much more powerful than him. Big deal Goku can destoy a sun and his power is over 9000 !! but Dr. Manhattan can beat him without lifting a finger and just deconstruct him on quantum level.
Wouldn't Captain Planet qualify as most powerful since, really, his powers are completely undefined and always extend to whatever is necessary to defeat the adversary?
On September 10 2011 22:57 Plexa wrote: Wouldn't Captain Planet qualify as most powerful since, really, his powers are completely undefined and always extend to whatever is necessary to defeat the adversary?
Same thing goes for the X-men dude Darwin since his power is to adapt to any situation, in other words he can do anything pretty much.
On September 10 2011 22:57 Plexa wrote: Wouldn't Captain Planet qualify as most powerful since, really, his powers are completely undefined and always extend to whatever is necessary to defeat the adversary?
not if root shiki says F U captain planet and recreate the world into one that doesn't have him in it LOL
Yeah but dont forget that Goku have the dragon balls so he can ask for any wish he wants Whats superman power level ? He cant destoy planets so I am thinking he has the same power level as Nappa =)
On September 10 2011 22:52 SkelA wrote: I still dont get whats the big deal about Goku. I mean ive watched dragonball z and shit but Goku is not immortal ( or im wrong? )
Superman Prime and Dr. Manhattan are immortal and much more powerful than him. Big deal Goku can destoy a sun and his power is over 9000 !! but Dr. Manhattan can beat him without lifting a finger and just deconstruct him on quantum level.
Thing is, at the end of the series, Goku and those on his level are so powerful that just fist fighting with their normal power will destroy the planet they're on. They have enough power to destroy galaxies without even trying.
Most powerful comic character is probably The One Above All from Marvel. Most powerful superhero would be Adam Warlock with the infinity gauntlet. This is based on facts in the comicverse, not personal preference.
Dr. Manhattan vs Seth from street fighter 4... Seth reminds me so much of him, probably because they're both bald, naked, and massive with super low bodyfat :D
I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
On September 10 2011 22:57 Plexa wrote: Wouldn't Captain Planet qualify as most powerful since, really, his powers are completely undefined and always extend to whatever is necessary to defeat the adversary?
i think every super hero ever has the feature of powers extending to whatever is necessary to defeat the adversary
On September 11 2011 01:30 Xirroh wrote: Silver Surfer is stronger then Superman. Probably the strongest.
However I believe Deadpool can't be killed.
All the Surfer has to do is emprison Deadpool in an energy cocoon (much like he tried doing to Galactus in his first appearance in the Fantastic Four comic) and voilà.
My fav is definitely Hyoga from the Saint Seiya series and the whole bunch of them, they are so delightfully heroic and emo at the same time. Epic.
If you like anime and haven't seen this series, do it!
The strongest has to be Superman since he is fucking lame and can supposedly do whatever. He also appears to be the only heterosexual gay man in history.
On September 10 2011 21:45 SkelA wrote: Lets do a poll. I picked few of the most favorite and powerful heroes so lets do this !
Poll: Who is the most powerful superhero?
Goku (46)
35%
Dr. Manhattan (29)
22%
Superman Prime (18)
14%
The Flash (13)
10%
Batman (8)
6%
The Hulk (7)
5%
Silver Surfer (5)
4%
Jean Grey (5)
4%
131 total votes
Your vote: Who is the most powerful superhero?
(Vote): Batman (Vote): Silver Surfer (Vote): Superman Prime (Vote): Dr. Manhattan (Vote): The Flash (Vote): Jean Grey (Vote): The Hulk (Vote): Goku
Poll to the OP please!
Dr. Manhattan all the way! The guy can molecularly reconstruct himself, destroy you with a single whim, he's a pure genius, and even a looks to be a little bit bigger than average. Couple that with his clones of himself running around that he is fully cognizant of in all ways. It probably wouldn't even end up being the real him that kills you.
Seems like a lot of people are going with Superman, but I think he seems a bit, not OP, just non-sensical.. Seems as though the writers, at the time, was having a hard time and wanted to one-up all the competition by saying, "Hey! I made a guy who doesn't have any weaknesses! He's super-strong, Super-fast, super-invincible, he's got it all!" "oh btw, he's allerigic/paralyzed by a rock that is pretty much non-existent"...
I never liked Superman, just due to the fact that he doesn't have any worthy villains.. 90% of his series, comics, tv shows, movies, who's he 'battling' with? Lex Luther.. a mere mortal. Superman, w/ all his powers, struggles w/ a rich guy.. I never understood why he didn't just like break Lex's legs a long time ago, put him in his place and show him whats what.. Other than that, he fights the likes of Darkside.. not that much variation.
I like the comic/superhero universes that have a lot of potential, like marvel! It's not so much a bias as DC just doesn't make good superhero's.. I mean yea, they have those powers, which are ok powers.. but just overall story and execution of their ideas.. bland.. Take universes of Spider man, Xmen, Hulk, Ironman etc..
it'd be hard for me to pick my fav or who i think is the strongest, but I do have a couple of favs.
Favorite: Captain America (for some reason), Spider-man, and of course if we're considering the DBZ universe, then Vegeta for sure..
strongest: like some other people have said - a friend told me once about Hulk's ablility to get stronger as he gets madder, which is virtually like a never-ending cycle.. and that's how he beat Thing, but I know pretty much everyone's had a run-in w./ the hulk, but I don't know the outcomes of those battles: Hulk v. Ironman, Wolverine, Superman, Spiderman, captain america I think?
but yea, I think the strongest would prolly be the Hulk.
Although superman does seem the most powerful, it seems too easy in his universe to obtain kryptonite - which totally owns him. Batman probably has a stash of kryptonite in his dresser in case he needs to use it.
My favourite: the Hulk. Pretty much no one can win against him.
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Mentioning Goku is ridiculous he's killed off like 10 times during DBZ, not quite the OP broken type you know, and he's not coming back because he has an OP ressurection skill but because of the plot-trick dragon balls magic. And he had/has that heart disease thing, seriously, not even top 20.
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Mentioning Goku is ridiculous he's killed off like 10 times during DBZ, not quite the OP broken type you know, and he's not coming back because he has an OP ressurection skill but because of the plot-trick dragon balls magic. And he had/has that heart disease thing, seriously, not even top 20.
Couldn't disagree more. If Goku finds somebody stronger than him, he will practice his heart out and become the best again. He's my hero, I've learnt from this guy how to practice, how to live, what's important in my life. No one and nothing can compare to him in any way.
After some research, I might be able to end the debate of the most powerful being in the Marvel Universe. I'm more of a DC guy myself, please correct any of my mistakes.
In the Marvel universe there is 7 levels beyond "regular" super heroes.
With powers to alter the reality of the universe: 1. The one above all. The highest by definition. 2. Living Tribunal. The "supreme court" of the omniverse. I.e. all alternate universes in the marvel series. His power trumps the infinity gauntlet. 3. Abstracts, with Eternity/infinity (the space-time continuum) being the highest. Maybe with the exception of the Nemesis when it manifests itself. 4. Cosmic entities. Celestials/beyonders etc.
With limited powers to alter the reality of the a universe: 5. Heralds wielding power cosmic (like the silver surfer).
With powers to alter the reality of the earth: 6. The Principality (Mystical beings). Elder gods and such. 6. Titans/Eternals/Deviants (With thanos being the highest).
Immortals: 7. Earthly Gods. Asgardians/Olympians/Heliopolitans etc. With Odin/Zeus being the highest.
8. Every other superhero.
Individuals of lower rank could rise in rank if they wield certain powerful artifacts. Adam Warlock and Thanos probably being the most proficient at wielding them.
The ranking for the reality altering artifact are:
1. Heart of the Universe. Trumps even the Living tribunal. 2. Infinity gauntlet. Trumps all cosmic entities except for the Living tribunal. 3. Infinity gems. The gauntlet is powered by 6 Gems, with the Reality gem being the most powerful. Can trump celestials. 4. Cosmic cube. They also have intelligence of their own and could in theory be ranked as a cosmic entity ~4. Can not trump the celestials (According to kubik, a cosmic cube).
Five cosmic cubes matches the infinity gauntlet (But trumps an incomplete infinity gauntlet without the reality gem). 30 cosmic cubes melted to an cosmic egg can spawn or destroy a universe.
I don't think anyone mentioned Darwin but he really is a badass. He ways portrayed very poorly in First class and appeared to be killed off (Hollywood again killing the black man first) which is kind of laughable if you know the characters origin.
1. Phoenix could take super man. If superman takes a nuke to the face he's down for a bit, krytonite or not, and I'm under the impression Phoenix hits harder than a nuke. For the kill she'd probably disassemble him after he was nuked a lot. At medium range superman's only hope is to land the freezing breath, I just don't see it being cold enough.
2. Deadpool - In tense situations he'll say "Bang!" with a gun to someone's head, followed with "Just kidding!"
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Mentioning Goku is ridiculous he's killed off like 10 times during DBZ, not quite the OP broken type you know, and he's not coming back because he has an OP ressurection skill but because of the plot-trick dragon balls magic. And he had/has that heart disease thing, seriously, not even top 20.
Couldn't disagree more. If Goku finds somebody stronger than him, he will practice his heart out and become the best again. He's my hero, I've learnt from this guy how to practice, how to live, what's important in my life. No one and nothing can compare to him in any way.
ok, he's your favorite nothing wrong with that, but part of this thread is about who s the most OP hero
Can't speed force also re-arrange people at the molecular level? I don't read comics but whenever a debate comes up between people who do it's always flash coming out on top because of speed force.
"Back on Earth, the cybiote made its appearance in Scotland and began heading south. The next five pages saw the Fury slaughtering every super-team that attempted to stop it: MI-13's British heroes at Dumfries, the X-Men at Manchester, the Avengers and Hulk at Birmingham, the New Warriors, the Defenders, Alpha Flight at Northampton, and a supervillain army at a motorway (the last panel of this had Doctor Doom announcing "Enough! I am Doom, and will destroy-" before he was shot in the face). Finally, the Fantastic Four and their allies fought the monster in central London and were wiped out."
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
You can't really say who is the strongest because alot of these superheroes can "adapt to any situation and have all the power in the world and can absorb all the attacks and powers of their opponents"
flash can run so fast that when he strained every muscle in his body he turned into pure energy went back in time and ended up becoming the lightning bolt that struck him and gave him his superpowers. That shit is like watching Donnie Darko again. Flash = OP /thread
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I just read the first page only and a few guys said superman has no weaknesses in his prime and is invincible etc, but what about THOR? just happen to know this character because I saw the movie a few days ago^^ though Im not very familiar with the "oldschool" comics
my favourites gotta be iron and batman, superheroes with not supernatural ability and pure technology
On September 10 2011 04:47 mints wrote: 1. My favorite is Superman, because he's the most unique. He was born Superman and his cape is his actual everyday outfit. His alterego/costume is Clark Kent, with the suit and glasses. He's an actual superhero by nature, whereas Batman is just a guy dressing up as a bat...
2. Superman, no other superhero would even touch Superman. Oh Batman is holding a piece of Kryptonite? Ok, Superman just flies high in the sky and would use his thermal lances to melt Batman. GG. Seriously, Superman is the god superheroes. He can easily avoid anything with his super speed, and would see anything coming his way with his xray vision.
xray gets absorbed by atmosphere, it is short range only. so any kid could kill superman with a sniper rifle or something, and superman would no way of knowing
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
What the hell? Since when is Dr. Manhattan immortal, let alone the most powerful being in the universe? The most powerful being in the DC universe is probably The Over-Monitor/ Over-Mind/ Overvoid.
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Mentioning Goku is ridiculous he's killed off like 10 times during DBZ, not quite the OP broken type you know, and he's not coming back because he has an OP ressurection skill but because of the plot-trick dragon balls magic. And he had/has that heart disease thing, seriously, not even top 20.
Well Goku was killed many times, in a Universe where everyone (yes, everyone) can easily destroy a planet. And Goku is so powerful he could destroy the universe, anytime.
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
VoirDire, your list is very incomplete - there are many more characters and levels than those you listed. I would advise you to take a look at the rankings ComicVine compiled for both Marvel and DC, they are quite well done (although one can always argue about the specifics).
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
VoirDire, your list is very incomplete - there are many more characters and levels than those you listed. I would advise you to take a look at the rankings ComicVine compiled for both Marvel and DC, they are quite well done (although one can always argue about the specifics).
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
VoirDire, your list is very incomplete - there are many more characters and levels than those you listed. I would advise you to take a look at the rankings ComicVine compiled for both Marvel and DC, they are quite well done (although one can always argue about the specifics).
Neither ranking is the definitive version since changes have been made to both to make them more accurate, but I haven't been able to find the best versions yet. Still, these two are useful to get a good picture of the various power levels.
edit: for example, the beginning of the ranking for Marvel should probably look more like this:
Tier 1 : 1st Class Beyond The One-Above-All Pre-Retcon Beyonder Thanos with the Heart of the Universe Protege Pre-Retcon Molecule Man Living Tribunal
Tier 2 : 2nd Class Beyond
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet Nebula with the Infinity Gauntlet Magus with the Infinity Gauntlet
Tier 3 : 1st Class Multiversal Abstract or Scale Eternity Infinity Death Oblivion The Phoenix Force The Alien Entity Infiniti IG Nemesis Genesis ( Sise-Neg)
DC's "The Presence" and Marvel's "One-Above-All" are the Judeo-Christian Gods of their respective universe. They are never seen, and they certainly aren't heroes, so they don't count.
That also goes for beings like The Spectre, Death, Infinity, The Living Tribunal, Galactus, ect as these beings are all neutral. Thanos with the Heart of the Universe was the most powerful being outside of the Gods in any comic ever, IMO. However he is a villain so he doesn't count either.
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
VoirDire, your list is very incomplete - there are many more characters and levels than those you listed. I would advise you to take a look at the rankings ComicVine compiled for both Marvel and DC, they are quite well done (although one can always argue about the specifics).
Neither ranking is the definitive version since changes have been made to both to make them more accurate, but I haven't been able to find the best versions yet. Still, these two are useful to get a good picture of the various power levels.
edit: for example, the beginning of the ranking for Marvel should probably look more like this:
Tier 1 : 1st Class Beyond The One-Above-All Pre-Retcon Beyonder Thanos with the Heart of the Universe Protege Pre-Retcon Molecule Man Living Tribunal
Tier 2 : 2nd Class Beyond
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet Nebula with the Infinity Gauntlet Magus with the Infinity Gauntlet
Tier 3 : 1st Class Multiversal Abstract or Scale Eternity Infinity Death Oblivion The Phoenix Force The Alien Entity Infiniti IG Nemesis Genesis ( Sise-Neg)
Wow, that's some ambitious lists. But I'm not sure it's useful to make so many tiers as their powers aren't defined.
I agree with your list though. It's similar to mine.
gosh you all know goku is not the strongest warrior at the end of dragonball z right? gohan is. uub is potentially stronger than goku but hasn't yet realized his powers so Goku would probably place second.
goku is the strongest at the end of GT though but GT isn't like "canon" or whatever.
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
VoirDire, your list is very incomplete - there are many more characters and levels than those you listed. I would advise you to take a look at the rankings ComicVine compiled for both Marvel and DC, they are quite well done (although one can always argue about the specifics).
Neither ranking is the definitive version since changes have been made to both to make them more accurate, but I haven't been able to find the best versions yet. Still, these two are useful to get a good picture of the various power levels.
edit: for example, the beginning of the ranking for Marvel should probably look more like this:
Tier 1 : 1st Class Beyond The One-Above-All Pre-Retcon Beyonder Thanos with the Heart of the Universe Protege Pre-Retcon Molecule Man Living Tribunal
Tier 2 : 2nd Class Beyond
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet Nebula with the Infinity Gauntlet Magus with the Infinity Gauntlet
Tier 3 : 1st Class Multiversal Abstract or Scale Eternity Infinity Death Oblivion The Phoenix Force The Alien Entity Infiniti IG Nemesis Genesis ( Sise-Neg)
What the fuck, i ve never hard of any of them, are there really in the comics/cartoons or are just shit made up for hardcore geeks to drool over?
At first glance Dr. Manhattan looks like a solid choice, until you remember the movie where he actually states he might not be able to get all the nukes before they hit the US. AKA he has limitations.
On September 11 2011 05:36 Desirous wrote: At first glance Dr. Manhattan looks like a solid choice, until you remember the movie where he actually states he might not be able to get all the nukes before they hit the US. AKA he has limitations.
yes, and in the same movie later on he goes godmode.
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
VoirDire, your list is very incomplete - there are many more characters and levels than those you listed. I would advise you to take a look at the rankings ComicVine compiled for both Marvel and DC, they are quite well done (although one can always argue about the specifics).
Neither ranking is the definitive version since changes have been made to both to make them more accurate, but I haven't been able to find the best versions yet. Still, these two are useful to get a good picture of the various power levels.
edit: for example, the beginning of the ranking for Marvel should probably look more like this:
Tier 1 : 1st Class Beyond The One-Above-All Pre-Retcon Beyonder Thanos with the Heart of the Universe Protege Pre-Retcon Molecule Man Living Tribunal
Tier 2 : 2nd Class Beyond
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet Nebula with the Infinity Gauntlet Magus with the Infinity Gauntlet
Tier 3 : 1st Class Multiversal Abstract or Scale Eternity Infinity Death Oblivion The Phoenix Force The Alien Entity Infiniti IG Nemesis Genesis ( Sise-Neg)
What the fuck, i ve never hard of any of them, are there really in the comics/cartoons or are just shit made up for hardcore geeks to drool over?
haha #2 me too
I was just scanning through the Marvel list to see some familiar names and the first one I probably know was Odin and that guy is Tier 11(!!) as elder god, I mean wtf
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
VoirDire, your list is very incomplete - there are many more characters and levels than those you listed. I would advise you to take a look at the rankings ComicVine compiled for both Marvel and DC, they are quite well done (although one can always argue about the specifics).
Neither ranking is the definitive version since changes have been made to both to make them more accurate, but I haven't been able to find the best versions yet. Still, these two are useful to get a good picture of the various power levels.
edit: for example, the beginning of the ranking for Marvel should probably look more like this:
Tier 1 : 1st Class Beyond The One-Above-All Pre-Retcon Beyonder Thanos with the Heart of the Universe Protege Pre-Retcon Molecule Man Living Tribunal
Tier 2 : 2nd Class Beyond
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet Nebula with the Infinity Gauntlet Magus with the Infinity Gauntlet
Tier 3 : 1st Class Multiversal Abstract or Scale Eternity Infinity Death Oblivion The Phoenix Force The Alien Entity Infiniti IG Nemesis Genesis ( Sise-Neg)
What the fuck, i ve never hard of any of them, are there really in the comics/cartoons or are just shit made up for hardcore geeks to drool over?
They are in the comics, most of the people that you are familiar with are lower tier because the higher tiers dont have anything interesting happen to them, I mean, when you're one-above-all or living tribunal, you really dont have any villains going against you, so no storyline, most of the stuff are abstract, every time someone dies, death is there, but you dont really see them personified.
On September 10 2011 04:36 hrmM wrote: I think Batman has been proven to be capable of beating Superman. Superman is the best in raw strength and super powers, but Batman has the intelligence to beat it.
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
VoirDire, your list is very incomplete - there are many more characters and levels than those you listed. I would advise you to take a look at the rankings ComicVine compiled for both Marvel and DC, they are quite well done (although one can always argue about the specifics).
Neither ranking is the definitive version since changes have been made to both to make them more accurate, but I haven't been able to find the best versions yet. Still, these two are useful to get a good picture of the various power levels.
edit: for example, the beginning of the ranking for Marvel should probably look more like this:
Tier 1 : 1st Class Beyond The One-Above-All Pre-Retcon Beyonder Thanos with the Heart of the Universe Protege Pre-Retcon Molecule Man Living Tribunal
Tier 2 : 2nd Class Beyond
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet Nebula with the Infinity Gauntlet Magus with the Infinity Gauntlet
Tier 3 : 1st Class Multiversal Abstract or Scale Eternity Infinity Death Oblivion The Phoenix Force The Alien Entity Infiniti IG Nemesis Genesis ( Sise-Neg)
What the fuck, i ve never hard of any of them, are there really in the comics/cartoons or are just shit made up for hardcore geeks to drool over?
On September 10 2011 04:36 hrmM wrote: I think Batman has been proven to be capable of beating Superman. Superman is the best in raw strength and super powers, but Batman has the intelligence to beat it.
You know your shit sir, Batman is the best
Only one problem with the intelligence argument: Superman possessed super genius-level intelligence and an eidetic memory (average people from Krypton already had genius level intelligence—they learned calculus at ten or eleven years). These enhanced mental capabilities were a direct result of his exposure to a yellow sun. Superman also possessed the mental ability to screen out the enormous amount of information received by his enhanced senses and to focus on a single detail such as a particular voice or location.
Not to mention Superman travels at the speed of light, even if Batman has kryptonite how is he going to win when Superman can keep his distance and shoot heat beams at super high speeds? He has tons of options to beat Batman kryptonite or not.
I'm shocked very few people have mentioned Thor as the strongest superhero. If you argue he can't beat superman take a look at this: http://www.old-wizard.com/thor-vs-superman
On September 10 2011 04:31 CoolguyBad wrote: I'm proposing two questions in this thread, and hopefully, TL members have extensive knowledge and we can have a thoughtful discussion.
*EDIT* Since a lot of people are asking, I'm going to add this: Anyone you believe to be a superhero, you can count. If you think there may be disagreement on his hero status, make your case on it then.
1) Who's your favorite superhero? 2) Who do you believe to be the most powerful hero?
Now I understand that question 2 is a bit broad, since different heroes thrive in different situations. When you're stating what hero you believe to be the most powerful, please state the "criteria" of the battle.
For example:
1) In a straight up fight, I would put Superman as the most powerful. With superspeed AND strength, he could easily push around other heroes, either overpowering them or just getting around their power.
2) However, what if there's adequate time of preparation? Who has the most potential?
silver surfer destroys superman anyday. easy.
superman would lose 100% vs silver surfer. silver surfer would just encase superman in kryptonite. he's got the power cosmic.
On September 10 2011 04:31 CoolguyBad wrote: I'm proposing two questions in this thread, and hopefully, TL members have extensive knowledge and we can have a thoughtful discussion.
*EDIT* Since a lot of people are asking, I'm going to add this: Anyone you believe to be a superhero, you can count. If you think there may be disagreement on his hero status, make your case on it then.
1) Who's your favorite superhero? 2) Who do you believe to be the most powerful hero?
Now I understand that question 2 is a bit broad, since different heroes thrive in different situations. When you're stating what hero you believe to be the most powerful, please state the "criteria" of the battle.
For example:
1) In a straight up fight, I would put Superman as the most powerful. With superspeed AND strength, he could easily push around other heroes, either overpowering them or just getting around their power.
2) However, what if there's adequate time of preparation? Who has the most potential?
silver surfer destroys superman anyday. easy.
superman would lose 100% vs silver surfer. silver surfer would just encase superman in kryptonite. he's got the power cosmic.
the fuck...? If the fantastic 4/military could get the silver surfer off his board so easily, I'm sure Superman would have no problem whatsoever even without using his superpowers, because he could use his genius IQ to do the same thing they did, or something even better.
2. Because superhuman powers in comics are not consistent nor are they used in a realistic fashion, it's a rather moot point to discuss who the strongest hero is... ... I MEAN Batman! With preparation!
I'll stick to traditional comic book heroes, and exclude deities that are mostly neutral.
Marvel
Strongest Potential: Franklin Richards, son of Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman, takes the cake in the Marvel universe. He has the ability to warp reality on the cosmic scale as well as telepathy, telekinesis, precognition, astral protection, and energy blasts. In addition to being able to manipulate matter on the molecular level, he can create or erase nearly anything.
Strongest Physically: The Hulk. There is virtually no limit to Hulk's physical strength other than his anger: the angrier he is, the stronger he is. There have been a few times when Hulk's emotions are magnified by a telepathic hero in order to fight a God-like villain- the result is planet destroying strength.
Strongest Villain: Onslaught, easily. Onslaught has the combined powers of Professor X, Magneto, Franklin Richards, and Nate Grey, in addition to the ability to manipulate it's own size and strength.
DC
I'll keep these brief as I was never a huge DC fan. Strongest Hero: Superman, for obvious reasons.
Strongest Villain: Imperiex Prime most likely actually displayed the most vast power set of any villain, although Doomsday could theoretically evolve to be stronger than anyone.
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
VoirDire, your list is very incomplete - there are many more characters and levels than those you listed. I would advise you to take a look at the rankings ComicVine compiled for both Marvel and DC, they are quite well done (although one can always argue about the specifics).
Neither ranking is the definitive version since changes have been made to both to make them more accurate, but I haven't been able to find the best versions yet. Still, these two are useful to get a good picture of the various power levels.
edit: for example, the beginning of the ranking for Marvel should probably look more like this:
Tier 1 : 1st Class Beyond The One-Above-All Pre-Retcon Beyonder Thanos with the Heart of the Universe Protege Pre-Retcon Molecule Man Living Tribunal
Tier 2 : 2nd Class Beyond
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet Nebula with the Infinity Gauntlet Magus with the Infinity Gauntlet
Tier 3 : 1st Class Multiversal Abstract or Scale Eternity Infinity Death Oblivion The Phoenix Force The Alien Entity Infiniti IG Nemesis Genesis ( Sise-Neg)
These lists are cool and all (and I mean it, I'm a comic geek so I'm interested in this kind of stuff), but most of the beings listed are not superheroes. In fact, according to this list, the most powerful superhero of all-time is...Captain Britain?
On September 11 2011 05:36 Desirous wrote: At first glance Dr. Manhattan looks like a solid choice, until you remember the movie where he actually states he might not be able to get all the nukes before they hit the US. AKA he has limitations.
It's not that he has limitations, he just see's the world as comic book (best way to describe it IMO). Time is static in Watchmen. I would really recommend reading the graphic novel to get the concept. Alan Moore writes a chapter from Dr. Manhattan's perspective in such a way that no other writer could probably ever hope to accomplish. It's most likely one of the primary reasons that he didn't want to have anything to do with the movie. The story was meant to be told in panel by panel form. It's the only way he could have explicitly shown how Dr. Manhattan views the world.
edit: sorry for posting one after another. Thought someone else might have posted by the time I replied >.>
Actually superman I think would lose straight up to Silver surfer he just came in and swooped down onto superman and headed straight for the sun.
If you know about the All Star Superman series/movie, you would know that superman has a limit to how much solar radiation his body can process. As such, you would "supercharge" superman, he may be greater at that short time frame, but his cells would slowly degrade and he would eventually become simply energy and dissipate. Silver surfer or anyone with an equivalent "specification" could theoretically beat him by doing so and just waiting it out. (i.e. flash could also do it to him and he'd just either go into the future and superman couldn't beat him in any way, shape or form)
In the all star superman series also, it was Lex luthor who devised that scheme which ended up destroying superman in the end, although I am not sure if it was intentional or coincidental.
As for thor, it would depend right? As to which thor he is? If he is a mortal who is gifted with thor's power through the hammer or he is the "legimate" thor the god. Because if you also look back at the infinity wars/gauntlet saga, thor almost died in space because he lost his hammer to thanos' trickery and became a mortal while in space (thus being unable to breathe while in mortal mode).
Hulk I would say needs a gradual build up in order to get stronger. He is not at the "peak" yet immediately when engaging. So in theory if you manage to subdue/disable him before he reaches the point at which to surpass you, then you've basically defeated him.
I am not familiar with the heart of the universe and some of the top tier of the marvel universe from the list that was given but it was a good read.
But if I base it to the extent of my knowledge, it would be adam warlock/thanos with the infinity gauntlet.
Oh and superman never "killed" doomsday, he was designed to adapt to conditions so in the next encounter, doomsday was actually "stronger" to the superman that defeated him before. And there was one point where doomsday was smart and could actually speak (through brainiac I think) and he fought along side superman to defeat some being (I forgot who). So would that count as making him a hero? Although he did get vaporized in that arc and all that was left were his skeletons.
Hehe! But this is actually a fun topic/read. I keep on returning to see what people are inputting into the thread/discussion. =)
On September 11 2011 12:42 Seldentar wrote: I'm shocked very few people have mentioned Thor as the strongest superhero. If you argue he can't beat superman take a look at this: http://www.old-wizard.com/thor-vs-superman
On September 10 2011 21:45 SkelA wrote: Lets do a poll. I picked few of the most favorite and powerful heroes so lets do this !
Poll: Who is the most powerful superhero?
Goku (46)
35%
Dr. Manhattan (29)
22%
Superman Prime (18)
14%
The Flash (13)
10%
Batman (8)
6%
The Hulk (7)
5%
Silver Surfer (5)
4%
Jean Grey (5)
4%
131 total votes
Your vote: Who is the most powerful superhero?
(Vote): Batman (Vote): Silver Surfer (Vote): Superman Prime (Vote): Dr. Manhattan (Vote): The Flash (Vote): Jean Grey (Vote): The Hulk (Vote): Goku
Well because OP isnt adding the poll we just gonna have to repost it from time to time.
Btw question about DBZ universe. Wasnt there a rule about dragonball revive is restricted like once per person? I watched it really long time ago so I dont really remember ...
Don't know much about DC but F.Richard or the Scarlet Witch appear to have the most power when it comes to reality altering. The physically strongest are Hulk,Thor and the Sentry.
My favourite one? Spiderman (well and the old Venom if he has a nice day)
edit: I don't think adding Goku (or any shonen character) to that list is good. The whole plot basically centers around the fact that there is ALWAYS a stronger character than the current hero that can only be beaten by training in some ridiculous manner. If Wolverine can't beat Magneto for example you will not see a time capsule where he trains for 10 years and comes out two times stronger.
Seriously guys, what makes batman so good? A lot of you guys say with preparation he could beat almost everyone, hoe come? I'm a huge Batman fan but can anyone give some examples?
On September 11 2011 00:55 kwizach wrote: I don't get why so many people are mentioning Dr. Manhattan as the strongest superhero. He would get smoked by a ton of superheroes from both Marvel and DC.
how exactly? he's like indistructable and can do anything. Ofc, Flash and Hulk are totally OP and broken but without the possibility to go in outter space, i ll remain with Dr. Manhatten.
Dr. Manhattan is nowhere near omnipotent. The Silver Surfer alone would wreck him.
How do you wreck Dr. Manhattan when he is immortal and most powerful being in the universe. The worst that he can do is a draw.
I still cant beleive Goku is winning the poll
They aren't a part of the same universe. Manhattan is part of the DC/Vertigo universe and the Silver surfer is part of the marvel universe.
I'd say that the silver surfer is more powerful as Dr. Manhattans is bound to the physical universe and the laws of relativity (The silver surfer can accelerate to faster than light speed).
Dr. Manhattan could possibly disintegrate the silver surfer with a touch, but the silver surfer could absorb Dr. Manhattan indefinitely. It's all about who gets the first shot
VoirDire, your list is very incomplete - there are many more characters and levels than those you listed. I would advise you to take a look at the rankings ComicVine compiled for both Marvel and DC, they are quite well done (although one can always argue about the specifics).
Neither ranking is the definitive version since changes have been made to both to make them more accurate, but I haven't been able to find the best versions yet. Still, these two are useful to get a good picture of the various power levels.
edit: for example, the beginning of the ranking for Marvel should probably look more like this:
Tier 1 : 1st Class Beyond The One-Above-All Pre-Retcon Beyonder Thanos with the Heart of the Universe Protege Pre-Retcon Molecule Man Living Tribunal
Tier 2 : 2nd Class Beyond
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet Nebula with the Infinity Gauntlet Magus with the Infinity Gauntlet
Tier 3 : 1st Class Multiversal Abstract or Scale Eternity Infinity Death Oblivion The Phoenix Force The Alien Entity Infiniti IG Nemesis Genesis ( Sise-Neg)
These lists are cool and all (and I mean it, I'm a comic geek so I'm interested in this kind of stuff), but most of the beings listed are not superheroes. In fact, according to this list, the most powerful superhero of all-time is...Captain Britain?
Bet you weren't expecting that one.
That's Captain Britain with Excalibur and AoR, and Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gauntlet is still above him.
On September 11 2011 18:38 KTF_CloaK wrote: Seriously guys, what makes batman so good? A lot of you guys say with preparation he could beat almost everyone, hoe come? I'm a huge Batman fan but can anyone give some examples?
There"s this one JLA comic where the justice league gets defeated systematically one by one cuz someone steals the Data batman has prepared on their wekness..
And so what if he doesn"t have superpowers , that hasn"t stopped him from being an uber badass and saving the planet from alien invasions,supernatural beings etc etc...Guess this thread should be renamed which Comic book character has the Strongest POWERS if you don"t count batman as a superhero...
Batman for me epitomises everything a superhero should be..the self sacrifice throughout the years and the human element that we can easily relate to.
On September 11 2011 12:42 Seldentar wrote: I'm shocked very few people have mentioned Thor as the strongest superhero. If you argue he can't beat superman take a look at this: http://www.old-wizard.com/thor-vs-superman
Thor is not a superhero...
How is he not a superhero? Can you explain? I've never been the biggest Avengers fan, but he seems to fit the criteria.
On September 11 2011 18:38 KTF_CloaK wrote: Seriously guys, what makes batman so good? A lot of you guys say with preparation he could beat almost everyone, hoe come? I'm a huge Batman fan but can anyone give some examples?
There"s this one JLA comic where the justice league gets defeated systematically one by one cuz someone steals the Data batman has prepared on their wekness..
And so what if he doesn"t have superpowers , that hasn"t stopped him from being an uber badass and saving the planet from alien invasions,supernatural beings etc etc...Guess this thread should be renamed which Comic book character has the Strongest POWERS if you don"t count batman as a superhero...
Batman for me epitomises everything a superhero should be..the self sacrifice throughout the years and the human element that we can easily relate to.
And add in a fondness for boys in tights for a complete description of the bat.
To all you saying goku.. While its true that in the DBZ series he is indeed, the strongest warrior alive.
BUT. If you take into account broly, the REAL legendary super saiyan, he puts goku to shame with his power level.
For those who wanna disagree, dont. Broly unchecked will GAIN energy (and thus power) over time. If he wasnt destroyed by all saiyans everytime, he would absolutely SMASH every known SSJ form in the world. with eaz, I tell you that.
Ofcourse, Broly aint really a superhero, so you're absolutely right on that part ^^
On September 11 2011 19:58 AbuseYouMerc wrote: To all you saying goku.. While its true that in the DBZ series he is indeed, the strongest warrior alive.
BUT. If you take into account broly, the REAL legendary super saiyan, he puts goku to shame with his power level.
For those who wanna disagree, dont. Broly unchecked will GAIN energy (and thus power) over time. If he wasnt destroyed by all saiyans everytime, he would absolutely SMASH every known SSJ form in the world. with eaz, I tell you that.
Ofcourse, Broly aint really a superhero, so you're absolutely right on that part ^^
Yeah, I said it quite a few posts back. But it's not actually legend if you take into account the "legend of bardock" in onemanga wherein the whole legend or story orignated from cooler (as a kid - I think) invating Planet Planet (to become Planet Vegeta in the future) confronted Bardock (thrown in the past) who managed to go SSJ1 and beat him.
As for goku's potential, if you are just observing the Z Series then it isn't much of a contest and Goku shouldn't be in the running, but if you add in the ending of the GT series, Goku becomes the dragon god, omnipotent and immortal. I just don't know if he needs someone to wish something before he can do it or he can just will it into existence faster than a blink of an eye..
And someone was asking limitation of dragon god wishes, if you talk about the earth Dragon Ball, then it's one wish one person but if you take into account the namekian dragon god, 3 wishes and pretty much revive as much as he can as long as he can (you can actually deny being revived in the Dragon Ball series if you wanted to stay in heaven. hehe! =)! )
On September 11 2011 19:07 Tedde93 wrote: Is batman really a superhero? I mean he doesn't have any special powers.
About Batman, there was this Batman Beyond episode (or was it JLA special) where we all found out Terry Mcguiness was actually a genetic "son" of Bruce Wayne (GASP!) hehe!
The Cadmus boss said the line to extent of something like "We can't imagine a world without Batman"
I think that line was deep in the sense that Batman was actually the one keeping the balance between regular folk and the super powered guys. Case in point, the file he had on everyone on/against the Justice League.
He's pretty much I would say the good guy equivalent of Lex Luthor, the cash and the brains to back it up. Problem with lex is, he has an ego problem while Bruce doesn't.
I mean, if you do look at it from an observers standpoint, Batman (although being "flawed" as a human) can still go toe to toe with any of the superpowered menaces the JLA faces and still come out alive (bloodied and bruised maybe, but still alive).
The only way you could theoretically beat Batman is if he is ill equipped/prepared to deal with the situation. Good example would be him suddenly going toe to chair with Prof X on the stop on a 1 on 1 battle. I mean Prof would just mind blast him and practically kill him. With preperation however, he could end up making some helmet like Magneto's and beat the crap out of Prof X. But that is only in that situtation and you couldn't really anticipate how or what would happen between him against a celestial being/power. I mean there is a limit to how much "preparedness" can get/give you only for you to find out resistance is futile. =)
About Superman vs SilverSurfer - Superman isn't smart enough to build super high tech stuff to kick him off his board. Also, I don't see why you say Goku is stronger then Dr.Manhattan (even tho Goku is no superhero) - Dr.Manhattan is unkillable and can shatter things into pieces without even really tryin' it. While Goku is not unkillable and can just shoot lazer which Dr.Manhattan can ignore because they dont even tickle him...
On September 11 2011 12:42 Seldentar wrote: I'm shocked very few people have mentioned Thor as the strongest superhero. If you argue he can't beat superman take a look at this: http://www.old-wizard.com/thor-vs-superman
Thor is not a superhero...
How is he not a superhero? Can you explain? I've never been the biggest Avengers fan, but he seems to fit the criteria.
On September 11 2011 19:58 AbuseYouMerc wrote: To all you saying goku.. While its true that in the DBZ series he is indeed, the strongest warrior alive.
BUT. If you take into account broly, the REAL legendary super saiyan, he puts goku to shame with his power level.
For those who wanna disagree, dont. Broly unchecked will GAIN energy (and thus power) over time. If he wasnt destroyed by all saiyans everytime, he would absolutely SMASH every known SSJ form in the world. with eaz, I tell you that.
Ofcourse, Broly aint really a superhero, so you're absolutely right on that part ^^
You've got to be kidding me.
YEAH, BROLY WILL CONTINUOUSLY GAIN POWER WITH NO LIMIT! Which is why he had to release some energy in the form of some energy blasts, right? He yelled that he couldn't contain all his power and had to release some energy or else he was going to explode. He has a limit, his power always rising just means that he doesn't tire.
Also, Superman would utterly destroy Goku, and this is coming from a hardcore DBZ fan. All the people who think Goku would beat Superman are kidding themselves. You people obviously don't know what Superman is capable of.
Superman lifting 200,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons. That's more than SSJ4 Gogeta' (the strongest DB character in any media)'s power level. Note that this isn't even Superman's max.
I'd also like to point out that the sun has been shown to destroy pretty much every Dragon Ball character. That's how Cooler and Broly were killed. Scientists can measure how hot the sun is...they can't measure how hot Superman's heat vision is.
On September 11 2011 19:58 AbuseYouMerc wrote: To all you saying goku.. While its true that in the DBZ series he is indeed, the strongest warrior alive.
BUT. If you take into account broly, the REAL legendary super saiyan, he puts goku to shame with his power level.
For those who wanna disagree, dont. Broly unchecked will GAIN energy (and thus power) over time. If he wasnt destroyed by all saiyans everytime, he would absolutely SMASH every known SSJ form in the world. with eaz, I tell you that.
Ofcourse, Broly aint really a superhero, so you're absolutely right on that part ^^
You've got to be kidding me.
YEAH, BROLY WILL CONTINUOUSLY GAIN POWER WITH NO LIMIT! Which is why he had to release some energy in the form of some energy blasts, right? He yelled that he couldn't contain all his power and had to release some energy or else he was going to explode. He has a limit, his power always rising just means that he doesn't tire.
Also, Superman would utterly destroy Goku, and this is coming from a hardcore DBZ fan. All the people who think Goku would beat Superman are kidding themselves. You people obviously don't know what Superman is capable of.
Yea right lol. I mean i don't know much about superman, but Goku can probably just beat Superman in like SS2 form.
How easy would it be to dodge heat vision with super human speed? I mean even superman vs superman I doubt one will even hit with heat vision or w.e it is called.
On September 11 2011 19:58 AbuseYouMerc wrote: To all you saying goku.. While its true that in the DBZ series he is indeed, the strongest warrior alive.
BUT. If you take into account broly, the REAL legendary super saiyan, he puts goku to shame with his power level.
For those who wanna disagree, dont. Broly unchecked will GAIN energy (and thus power) over time. If he wasnt destroyed by all saiyans everytime, he would absolutely SMASH every known SSJ form in the world. with eaz, I tell you that.
Ofcourse, Broly aint really a superhero, so you're absolutely right on that part ^^
You've got to be kidding me.
YEAH, BROLY WILL CONTINUOUSLY GAIN POWER WITH NO LIMIT! Which is why he had to release some energy in the form of some energy blasts, right? He yelled that he couldn't contain all his power and had to release some energy or else he was going to explode. He has a limit, his power always rising just means that he doesn't tire.
Also, Superman would utterly destroy Goku, and this is coming from a hardcore DBZ fan. All the people who think Goku would beat Superman are kidding themselves. You people obviously don't know what Superman is capable of.
Yea right lol. I mean i don't know much about superman, but Goku can probably just beat Superman in like SS2 form.
How easy would it be to dodge heat vision with super human speed? I mean even superman vs superman I doubt one will even hit with heat vision or w.e it is called.
Obviously.
Considering Superman can fly at the speed of light, yeah, he won't have much problem catching Goku at all.
EDIT : Thought Superman-prime was someone different.
Goku's only weakness is his compassion for his friends and the human race. Arguably not a weakness at all, but it would be the only means for defeating him.
On September 11 2011 20:54 Sinensis wrote: Favorites: Batman and Space Ghost
Most powerful: goku
Superman-prime, as well as all iterations of superman lose their power when exposed to a red sun. Superman-prime is also weak against large concentrations of quantum energy. Superman-prime is also afraid of the Flash Family because they were able to imprison him in a junior Red-Sun eater which similarly depowers him.
Goku's only weakness is his compassion for his friends and the human race. Arguably not a weakness at all, but it would be the only means for defeating him.
actually superman prime is not weak to kryptonite, magic, or a red sun you are confusing him with superboy prime, which i did too :p superman prime is from DC 1 million, he also has a green lantern ring but doesnt probably need it
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
When all transformations are known, at least one must've achieved them before goku. O.o OR there are even more transformations, but then he didnt achieve every single one.
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
Vegito is Goku with earrings.
But he technically isn't Goku. He's a seperate being with a seperate power and personality.
God is the strongest super hero. He can destroy and create an entire universe in an instant. God can move unmovable objects and god can stop unstopable objects, superman and goku can't. God created goku and super man. Gods power is unlimited.
I guess the only thing that could take on god in a 1v1 is dragongod ssj4 son goku, he could just wish god away. While that wouldn't kill god, because god could just wish himself back, god and dragongod ssj4 goku would imprison themselves in an infinite loop of wishing themselves back.
On September 11 2011 21:13 PepperoniPiZZa wrote: God is the strongest super hero. He can destroy and create an entire universe in an instant. God can move unmovable objects and god can stop unstopable objects, superman and goku can't. God created goku and super man. Gods power is unlimited.
I guess the only thing that could take on god in a 1v1 is dragongod ssj4 son goku, he could just wish god away. While that wouldn't kill god, because god could just wish himself back, god and dragongod ssj4 goku would imprison themselves in an infinite loop of wishing themselves back.
so are you saying gods a genie? since he can grant wishes
On September 11 2011 21:13 PepperoniPiZZa wrote: God is the strongest super hero. He can destroy and create an entire universe in an instant. God can move unmovable objects and god can stop unstopable objects, superman and goku can't. God created goku and super man. Gods power is unlimited.
I guess the only thing that could take on god in a 1v1 is dragongod ssj4 son goku, he could just wish god away. While that wouldn't kill god, because god could just wish himself back, god and dragongod ssj4 goku would imprison themselves in an infinite loop of wishing themselves back.
except God is not a super hero, duh
And all the goku argument is crazy, i loved DBZ and him too, but c'mon he dies/gets beaten more times then GRRM kills main caracters in a book. He's probably not even the strongest in the DBZ universe after all, how could he compete with all the stupidly borken caracters from other lores?
For non-entities (One Above All, the Presence, etc.) wouldn't Franklin Richards, Mr. M or any other reality bending hero trump anyone else? I'd think they'd just will other heroes out of existence and that'd be it.
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
On September 11 2011 12:42 Seldentar wrote: I'm shocked very few people have mentioned Thor as the strongest superhero. If you argue he can't beat superman take a look at this: http://www.old-wizard.com/thor-vs-superman
Thor is not a superhero...
How is he not a superhero? Can you explain? I've never been the biggest Avengers fan, but he seems to fit the criteria.
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
On September 11 2011 12:42 Seldentar wrote: I'm shocked very few people have mentioned Thor as the strongest superhero. If you argue he can't beat superman take a look at this: http://www.old-wizard.com/thor-vs-superman
Thor is not a superhero...
How is he not a superhero? Can you explain? I've never been the biggest Avengers fan, but he seems to fit the criteria.
Thor is a superhero silly, being a god doesn't mean you can't be a hero... I don't know where you got the idea he isnt. Besides, those two Thors aren't even the same.
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
I think Mystic Gohan comes very very close to SSJ3 Goku
On September 11 2011 19:58 AbuseYouMerc wrote: To all you saying goku.. While its true that in the DBZ series he is indeed, the strongest warrior alive.
BUT. If you take into account broly, the REAL legendary super saiyan, he puts goku to shame with his power level.
For those who wanna disagree, dont. Broly unchecked will GAIN energy (and thus power) over time. If he wasnt destroyed by all saiyans everytime, he would absolutely SMASH every known SSJ form in the world. with eaz, I tell you that.
Ofcourse, Broly aint really a superhero, so you're absolutely right on that part ^^
You've got to be kidding me.
YEAH, BROLY WILL CONTINUOUSLY GAIN POWER WITH NO LIMIT! Which is why he had to release some energy in the form of some energy blasts, right? He yelled that he couldn't contain all his power and had to release some energy or else he was going to explode. He has a limit, his power always rising just means that he doesn't tire.
Also, Superman would utterly destroy Goku, and this is coming from a hardcore DBZ fan. All the people who think Goku would beat Superman are kidding themselves. You people obviously don't know what Superman is capable of.
Yea right lol. I mean i don't know much about superman, but Goku can probably just beat Superman in like SS2 form.
How easy would it be to dodge heat vision with super human speed? I mean even superman vs superman I doubt one will even hit with heat vision or w.e it is called.
LMAO you are actually serious? lol... as a long loving Goku fan who doesn't care for superman much, superman would obviously crush Goku.
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
I think Mystic Gohan comes very very close to SSJ3 Goku
He's actually much, much stronger.
But it's moot. Flash is the most powerful once he became the speed force. He basically is a fundamental force of the universe while still being an actual superhero, so he fits the criteria. Superman? Well, sorry, you can't do anything that pertains to movement! Oh, you'd like to attack him? Sorry, can't move. You'd like to think of a plan, or for that matter, anything at all and any course of action for which to take? Welp, that sucks, because thinking requires the transfer of information in your brains! You're completely frozen in space at his will with no ability to think or act, and, well, you can't pull the "hit him so fast he can't execute these powers" gimmick because he's literally the essence of all things speed. Goku? Ditto! Then an infinite mass punch through the brain. Flash, going all out, is the most absurdly powerful comic book character who still counts as a superhero.
The downside is that using all of his power runs the risk of him disappearing forever (except not because comic books). In a full out, 1 on 1 fight, Flash > All and it's not even close.
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
*PULLS OUT OTAKU GLASSES*
It's actually canon that in terms of pure power level and intelligence that Elder Kai Unlock Gohan is the strongest character in all of DBZ, and it is Word of God. Seriously, Toriyama says so. (Elder Kai Unlock is technically more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, which is caveat-ed by Goku COMPLETELY avoiding Super Buu in the manga and telling Gohan to go and fight Super Buu instead)
EDIT: Though it should be noted that Gohan has by far the most unrefined fighting style of all of the Z-fighters... which is easily seen at MULTIPLE points where he SHOULD be completely outclassing his opponents... but doesn't simply because he lack hard earned battle sense of any sort!
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
There's no evidence either way, only guesses.
If it is at the end Z, clearly Goku wasn't able to defeat Kid Buu by himself. He needed the energy of everyone else, with whom without their combined ki wouldnt be able to generate enough energy to destroy Buu. Also, on the energy clash, he needed the Dragon Ball wish to rejuvenate his strength to be able to push the Genki Dama onto Buu. Without those two elements working with Goku, he would have died along with the whole Dragon Ball universe.
So in retrospect, in the Z universe, the only real person who was theoretically having the fighting advantage or chance against Buu was supposedly Z Gohan with the Z sword but that whole plan went whack when they broke the sword.
But if you just stick with Dragon Ball Z universe only, then Goku shouldn't really be in this running, even if it were super saiyan lore. Only at the end of GT would Goku have a chance to be in the strongest running as the new Shenron or Dragon God as being the god of dragon ball universe capable of doing pretty much everything.
If you stick the whole developments on the Dragon Ball universe though and just point out super saiyan classes SSJ1 to 4, it is simply power levels and feats of strengths, no were near any godly/supernatural acts that other heroes could do or execute. Only when Goku is the new Dragon God can he compare with those stated as the most powerful if you look at it from the standpoint of bending reality or pretty much whatever they want. =)
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
*PULLS OUT OTAKU GLASSES*
It's actually canon that in terms of pure power level and intelligence that Elder Kai Unlock Gohan is the strongest character in all of DBZ, and it is Word of God. Seriously, Toriyama says so. (Elder Kai Unlock is technically more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, which is caveat-ed by Goku COMPLETELY avoiding Super Buu in the manga and telling Gohan to go and fight Super Buu instead)
EDIT: Though it should be noted that Gohan has by far the most unrefined fighting style of all of the Z-fighters... which is easily seen at MULTIPLE points where he SHOULD be completely outclassing his opponents... but doesn't simply because he lack hard earned battle sense of any sort!
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
I think Mystic Gohan comes very very close to SSJ3 Goku
He's actually much, much stronger.
But it's moot. Flash is the most powerful once he became the speed force. He basically is a fundamental force of the universe while still being an actual superhero, so he fits the criteria. Superman? Well, sorry, you can't do anything that pertains to movement! Oh, you'd like to attack him? Sorry, can't move. You'd like to think of a plan, or for that matter, anything at all and any course of action for which to take? Welp, that sucks, because thinking requires the transfer of information in your brains! You're completely frozen in space at his will with no ability to think or act, and, well, you can't pull the "hit him so fast he can't execute these powers" gimmick because he's literally the essence of all things speed. Goku? Ditto! Then an infinite mass punch through the brain. Flash, going all out, is the most absurdly powerful comic book character who still counts as a superhero.
The downside is that using all of his power runs the risk of him disappearing forever (except not because comic books). In a full out, 1 on 1 fight, Flash > All and it's not even close.
The speed force is far from the most powerful force in the omniverse.
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
I think Mystic Gohan comes very very close to SSJ3 Goku
He's actually much, much stronger.
But it's moot. Flash is the most powerful once he became the speed force. He basically is a fundamental force of the universe while still being an actual superhero, so he fits the criteria. Superman? Well, sorry, you can't do anything that pertains to movement! Oh, you'd like to attack him? Sorry, can't move. You'd like to think of a plan, or for that matter, anything at all and any course of action for which to take? Welp, that sucks, because thinking requires the transfer of information in your brains! You're completely frozen in space at his will with no ability to think or act, and, well, you can't pull the "hit him so fast he can't execute these powers" gimmick because he's literally the essence of all things speed. Goku? Ditto! Then an infinite mass punch through the brain. Flash, going all out, is the most absurdly powerful comic book character who still counts as a superhero.
The downside is that using all of his power runs the risk of him disappearing forever (except not because comic books). In a full out, 1 on 1 fight, Flash > All and it's not even close.
The speed force is far from the most powerful force in the omniverse.
Yeah, but it's the most powerful force any generic superhero has. A lot of people are bringing up things like The Living Tribunal and The One Above All, but that's not in the parameters of the question -- just because they're found in comic books doesn't mean they're super heros. There's plenty of non-superhero comic book characters and they are one.
The Flash is, by all accounts, your typical super hero in every way and controls ONE of the fundamental powers of the universe that makes him essentially immortal and capable of, well, all that stuff I put up there.
It's straight up farcical to put Superman over him. Flash was stronger than Superman even before he became the Speed Force.
I just thought about it, does the thread starter want us to consider as the individual themselves excluding tools/equipments? Like say batman without his utility belt? Thor without his hammer? Adam Warlock with no infinity gauntlet?
Is it therefore innate strength of the individual without other external power ups?
If we rid it to the bare essentials, I think Flash would be a top contender, even above Superman. =)
I agree also that Living Tribunal is not technically a hero as he merely judges/arbitrates with regards to the law of nature (like how he judged that he would not participate in the battle with thanos) because of the strong shall survive. Kind of like celestials are not really villains/evil because that is their existence like Galactus and the Watcher, it is the definition of their existence not because they choose to but they just are. =)
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
I think Mystic Gohan comes very very close to SSJ3 Goku
He's actually much, much stronger.
But it's moot. Flash is the most powerful once he became the speed force. He basically is a fundamental force of the universe while still being an actual superhero, so he fits the criteria. Superman? Well, sorry, you can't do anything that pertains to movement! Oh, you'd like to attack him? Sorry, can't move. You'd like to think of a plan, or for that matter, anything at all and any course of action for which to take? Welp, that sucks, because thinking requires the transfer of information in your brains! You're completely frozen in space at his will with no ability to think or act, and, well, you can't pull the "hit him so fast he can't execute these powers" gimmick because he's literally the essence of all things speed. Goku? Ditto! Then an infinite mass punch through the brain. Flash, going all out, is the most absurdly powerful comic book character who still counts as a superhero.
The downside is that using all of his power runs the risk of him disappearing forever (except not because comic books). In a full out, 1 on 1 fight, Flash > All and it's not even close.
The speed force is far from the most powerful force in the omniverse.
Yeah, but it's the most powerful force any generic superhero has. A lot of people are bringing up things like The Living Tribunal and The One Above All, but that's not in the parameters of the question -- just because they're found in comic books doesn't mean they're super heros. There's plenty of non-superhero comic book characters and they are one.
The Flash is, by all accounts, your typical super hero in every way and controls ONE of the fundamental powers of the universe that makes him essentially immortal and capable of, well, all that stuff I put up there.
No it's not. The power cosmic, the Odin Force and the Phoenix force are three examples (see the Silver Surfer, Thor (also Rune Thor) and Jean Grey). Superman Prime is also a lot more powerful than Flash (and even Black Flash), and so are the superheroes which got hold of the Infinity Gauntlet (see Adam Warlock) or other similar artefacts (see Captain Britain with Excalibur and AoR).
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
I think Mystic Gohan comes very very close to SSJ3 Goku
He's actually much, much stronger.
But it's moot. Flash is the most powerful once he became the speed force. He basically is a fundamental force of the universe while still being an actual superhero, so he fits the criteria. Superman? Well, sorry, you can't do anything that pertains to movement! Oh, you'd like to attack him? Sorry, can't move. You'd like to think of a plan, or for that matter, anything at all and any course of action for which to take? Welp, that sucks, because thinking requires the transfer of information in your brains! You're completely frozen in space at his will with no ability to think or act, and, well, you can't pull the "hit him so fast he can't execute these powers" gimmick because he's literally the essence of all things speed. Goku? Ditto! Then an infinite mass punch through the brain. Flash, going all out, is the most absurdly powerful comic book character who still counts as a superhero.
The downside is that using all of his power runs the risk of him disappearing forever (except not because comic books). In a full out, 1 on 1 fight, Flash > All and it's not even close.
The speed force is far from the most powerful force in the omniverse.
Yeah, but it's the most powerful force any generic superhero has. A lot of people are bringing up things like The Living Tribunal and The One Above All, but that's not in the parameters of the question -- just because they're found in comic books doesn't mean they're super heros. There's plenty of non-superhero comic book characters and they are one.
The Flash is, by all accounts, your typical super hero in every way and controls ONE of the fundamental powers of the universe that makes him essentially immortal and capable of, well, all that stuff I put up there.
No it's not. The power cosmic and the Phoenix force are two examples (see the Silver Surfer and Jean Grey). Superman Prime is also a lot more powerful than Flash (and even Black Flash), so are the superheroes which got hold of the Infinity Gauntlet or other similar artefacts.
Not sure how you can compare the Phoenix Force. Anyhow, the power cosmic is very vague and frequently beaten -- it tends to be a certain "level" of the power cosmic. It's hard to compare Marvel to DC side by side. Silver Surfer still acts and thinks like a normal being and would, quite easily, be frozen in space and ripped to pieces by Flash. Some of the super intrinsic beings who operate the power cosmic, maybe not, but all superheroes who operate it tend to have the limits of being rather ordinary beings operating the power.
Anyhow, with the infinity gauntlet, are any superheros, at their current base in continuity, in possession of it? Like, is there any superhero right now who, when listing their abilities, you would go "has the infinity gauntlet and is therefore omnipotent," ? I don't religiously keep up with comics, but usually the answer is no since that thing gets broken up frequently. If there is a current, normal superhero who has the ability of "omnipotence," then they win, I suppose. Unless they have to stop and think about using their omnipotence, then Flash could just stop them there and jack the gauntlet.
Getting back to the phoenix force, Jean Grey isn't really a superhero whenever she's in full control of the phoenix force. She's just your atypical omnipotent superbeing who does as it wishes -- this is a disgustingly frequent and regurgitated plotline for the X-Men. Jean goes full phoenix to beat some threat, flies off wistfully.. The reason I brought up Flash is because he IS the speed force while retaining his entire superhero identity.
Superman Prime is a supervillain. He USED to be good then went all evil and voila, he's excluded. And frankly, he's so casually engaged by so many forces (Normal Superman, The Green Lanterns fucking imprisoned him once his armor was broken), would you really put him over Flash when he's in absolute control of the speed force, considering who's beaten him before? Could just move himself and Prime near a natural red sun and he crumples.
On September 11 2011 20:54 RPR_Tempest wrote: Seriously, the Goku answers baffle me. Goku isn't even the strongest character from DBZ.
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
I think Mystic Gohan comes very very close to SSJ3 Goku
He's actually much, much stronger.
But it's moot. Flash is the most powerful once he became the speed force. He basically is a fundamental force of the universe while still being an actual superhero, so he fits the criteria. Superman? Well, sorry, you can't do anything that pertains to movement! Oh, you'd like to attack him? Sorry, can't move. You'd like to think of a plan, or for that matter, anything at all and any course of action for which to take? Welp, that sucks, because thinking requires the transfer of information in your brains! You're completely frozen in space at his will with no ability to think or act, and, well, you can't pull the "hit him so fast he can't execute these powers" gimmick because he's literally the essence of all things speed. Goku? Ditto! Then an infinite mass punch through the brain. Flash, going all out, is the most absurdly powerful comic book character who still counts as a superhero.
The downside is that using all of his power runs the risk of him disappearing forever (except not because comic books). In a full out, 1 on 1 fight, Flash > All and it's not even close.
The speed force is far from the most powerful force in the omniverse.
Yeah, but it's the most powerful force any generic superhero has. A lot of people are bringing up things like The Living Tribunal and The One Above All, but that's not in the parameters of the question -- just because they're found in comic books doesn't mean they're super heros. There's plenty of non-superhero comic book characters and they are one.
The Flash is, by all accounts, your typical super hero in every way and controls ONE of the fundamental powers of the universe that makes him essentially immortal and capable of, well, all that stuff I put up there.
No it's not. The power cosmic and the Phoenix force are two examples (see the Silver Surfer and Jean Grey). Superman Prime is also a lot more powerful than Flash (and even Black Flash), so are the superheroes which got hold of the Infinity Gauntlet or other similar artefacts.
Not sure how you can compare the Phoenix Force. Anyhow, the power cosmic is very vague and frequently beaten -- it tends to be a certain "level" of the power cosmic. It's hard to compare Marvel to DC side by side. Silver Surfer still acts and thinks like a normal being and would, quite easily, be frozen in space and ripped to pieces by Flash. Some of the super intrinsic beings who operate the power cosmic, maybe not, but all superheroes who operate it tend to have the limits of being rather ordinary beings operating the power.
Anyhow, with the infinity gauntlet, are any superheros, at their current base in continuity, in possession of it? Like, is there any superhero right now who, when listing their abilities, you would go "has the infinity gauntlet and is therefore omnipotent," ? I don't religiously keep up with comics, but usually the answer is no since that thing gets broken up frequently.
Getting back to the phoenix force, Jean Grey isn't really a superhero whenever she's in full control of the phoenix force. She's just your atypical omnipotent superbeing who does as it wishes -- this is a disgustingly frequent and regurgitated plotline for the X-Men. Jean goes full phoenix to beat some threat, flies off wistfully.. The reason I brought up Flash is because he IS the speed force while retaining his entire superhero identity.
Superman Prime is a supervillain. He USED to be good then went all evil and voila, he's excluded. And frankly, he's so casually engaged by so many forces (Normal Superman, The Green Lanterns fucking imprisoned him once his armor was broken), would you really put him over Flash when he's in absolute control of the speed force, considering who's beaten him before? Could just move himself and Prime near a natural red sun and he crumples.
First of all, the Silver Surfer would certainly not be "frozen in space and ripped to pieces by Flash". That's just not true - he's a more powerful being than Flash in practically every way. Regarding the Infinity Gauntlet, you are correct in saying that it is not currently being wielded by anyone. Regarding Jean Grey, she IS a superhero and for you to dismiss her as not when she's in full control of the phoenix force is clear intellectual dishonesty - last time I checked, Flash doesn't live at full speed. He's also not the speed force, he gets his powers from the speed force.
edit: by the way I'm pretty sure you're talking about Superboy Prime, not Superman Prime.
Regarding the gauntlet, if you followed the infinity wars, the gems (after they defeated thanos) were never allowed to be placed together by eternity (or infinity) and the rest of the celestials. As in the infinity gaunlet was no more just the gems as individual pieces. Magus did something though to bypass that. Im not exactly sure what but that has been averted.
So the question now is, are we pertaining to the state of heroes at their peak levels or their current existing known storylines at present?
Like jean grey, the pheonix was there when needed but leaves right? Or superman whn supercharged by sun can lift quintillion tons but at the end caused his death,thereby actually destroying him in all star superman?
On September 11 2011 21:01 Sinensis wrote: [quote]
Yes he is and he is the only Saiyan in the Dragon Ball universe to achieve all possible transformations.
...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
I think Mystic Gohan comes very very close to SSJ3 Goku
He's actually much, much stronger.
But it's moot. Flash is the most powerful once he became the speed force. He basically is a fundamental force of the universe while still being an actual superhero, so he fits the criteria. Superman? Well, sorry, you can't do anything that pertains to movement! Oh, you'd like to attack him? Sorry, can't move. You'd like to think of a plan, or for that matter, anything at all and any course of action for which to take? Welp, that sucks, because thinking requires the transfer of information in your brains! You're completely frozen in space at his will with no ability to think or act, and, well, you can't pull the "hit him so fast he can't execute these powers" gimmick because he's literally the essence of all things speed. Goku? Ditto! Then an infinite mass punch through the brain. Flash, going all out, is the most absurdly powerful comic book character who still counts as a superhero.
The downside is that using all of his power runs the risk of him disappearing forever (except not because comic books). In a full out, 1 on 1 fight, Flash > All and it's not even close.
The speed force is far from the most powerful force in the omniverse.
Yeah, but it's the most powerful force any generic superhero has. A lot of people are bringing up things like The Living Tribunal and The One Above All, but that's not in the parameters of the question -- just because they're found in comic books doesn't mean they're super heros. There's plenty of non-superhero comic book characters and they are one.
The Flash is, by all accounts, your typical super hero in every way and controls ONE of the fundamental powers of the universe that makes him essentially immortal and capable of, well, all that stuff I put up there.
No it's not. The power cosmic and the Phoenix force are two examples (see the Silver Surfer and Jean Grey). Superman Prime is also a lot more powerful than Flash (and even Black Flash), so are the superheroes which got hold of the Infinity Gauntlet or other similar artefacts.
Not sure how you can compare the Phoenix Force. Anyhow, the power cosmic is very vague and frequently beaten -- it tends to be a certain "level" of the power cosmic. It's hard to compare Marvel to DC side by side. Silver Surfer still acts and thinks like a normal being and would, quite easily, be frozen in space and ripped to pieces by Flash. Some of the super intrinsic beings who operate the power cosmic, maybe not, but all superheroes who operate it tend to have the limits of being rather ordinary beings operating the power.
Anyhow, with the infinity gauntlet, are any superheros, at their current base in continuity, in possession of it? Like, is there any superhero right now who, when listing their abilities, you would go "has the infinity gauntlet and is therefore omnipotent," ? I don't religiously keep up with comics, but usually the answer is no since that thing gets broken up frequently.
Getting back to the phoenix force, Jean Grey isn't really a superhero whenever she's in full control of the phoenix force. She's just your atypical omnipotent superbeing who does as it wishes -- this is a disgustingly frequent and regurgitated plotline for the X-Men. Jean goes full phoenix to beat some threat, flies off wistfully.. The reason I brought up Flash is because he IS the speed force while retaining his entire superhero identity.
Superman Prime is a supervillain. He USED to be good then went all evil and voila, he's excluded. And frankly, he's so casually engaged by so many forces (Normal Superman, The Green Lanterns fucking imprisoned him once his armor was broken), would you really put him over Flash when he's in absolute control of the speed force, considering who's beaten him before? Could just move himself and Prime near a natural red sun and he crumples.
First of all, the Silver Surfer would certainly not be "frozen in space and ripped to pieces by Flash". That's just not true - he's a more powerful being than Flash in practically every way. Regarding the Infinity Gauntlet, you are correct in saying that it is not currently being wielded by anyone. Regarding Jean Grey, she IS a superhero and for you to dismiss her as not when she's in full control of the phoenix force is clear intellectual dishonesty - last time I checked, Flash doesn't live at full speed. He's also not the speed force, he gets his powers from the speed force.
Hm? I thought Wally West (or was it Allen? bleh I shouldn't be arguing when I'm sleep deprived) became the actual embodiment of the speed force when something happened to it in the infinite crisis (It's been awhile so maybe things have changed. It was after he died for like the fourth time, after he became the Black Flash and the whole black lantern corps thing).
While the Silver Surfer seemingly has the power to just waive off Galactus and do whatever he wants because "the power cosmic," he frequently gets removed from his board by pretty mundane means. Half the time he gets freaking tackled. I figure it wouldn't be nearly as easy, but my main beef with saying Surfer would beat Flash is that almost all of Surfer's actions require some course of though and deliberation and action. He can't think or act nearly as fast as all out speed force Flash, and could be absolutely frozen, or taken to the end or beginning of time where the power cosmic has no basis (one of the speed force's perks).
Jean Grey operates as "The Phoenix" in her normal identity frequently. But whenever she's at super powerful "dark phoenix" mode she's never in her superhero good guy mode. I think this is pretty ticky tack so Phoenix might be a good pick to win this whole hypothetical. At the very least, Flash is way up there. Whenever Phoenix went all "embodiment of the universe and all things" mode it seemed like it was just another one of those ambiguous, pointless omnipotent beings they toss into stories, as opposed to Jean Grey herself.
What I'm saying is, Flash (non-embodiment of the speed force Flash) once completely froze the entirety of all the heroes on Earth, including Superman, by just stealing all of their ability to operate, which included thinking or acting. If Flash sees you and can think as fast or faster than you and you aren't somehow immune to the speed force, he can trap you and rip you apart atom by atom.
1.) Actual superhero or brainfart plot device One could say that omega-level mutants like Franklin Richards or the Phoenix, or characters like Superman Prime, Doctor Manhattan, or that whoever controls the Heart of the Universe, the Infinity Gauntlet, the Ultimate Nullifier, or whatever is basically a god. But I'd say that those aren't real superheroes in the sense of a protagonist of an adventure, but rather plot devices in the stories of other supers. A comic book with Superman Prime as the good guy would have the format of a philosophical tractatus, not unlike the theodicy, but it sure as hell wouldn't include the least bit of suspense.
2.) What a character could do compared to what they would do Many effectively omnipotent characters do not use their powers to their full extent. Sure, the silver surfer could encase his enemies in solid phlebotium, pick them up and fly into a supernova... but instead, he would go all emo during a brawl about how he'd not be Norrin anymore if he did that. Spawn could tap into the powers of hell and unleash hordes of demons on his enemies, but he'd become a slave of Malebolgia in no time. The Flash could run at the speed of just-faster-than-everything-else, but he might get sucked into the speed force (again). In other words, the most delimiting factor to their powers seems to be that they make inexplicably dumb decisions nearly all the time - in fact, this is the reason for the Batman being able to hold up here, because his power seems to be the unique ability of lateral thinking.
3.) Weaknesses and blanket immunities In order to avoid the "boring invincible hero" effect, most powerful characters also have enormous weaknesses to counter their strengths. Now, those weaknesses come in two forms - either they make sense or they don't. Superman's kryptonite is nothing else than a plot device, and its existence completely relies on the needs of the storyline... when basically every bankrobber carries meteorite dust in his pocket, or when Bruce Wayne synthesizes green rocks, it's not because it makes sense, but because the writer has run out of ideas. On the other hand, certain weaknesses are stringent with a superhero's powers: The Flash need traction. The Human Torch needs oxygen. It's easy to see why. In a duel between [insert random omnipotent superhero] and [insert random omnipotent superhero], it therefore seems to come down to whoever has the least exploitable weaknesses and the most blanket immunities against instant annihilation. It has been argued that the Flash could just go back in time, punch someone's pregnant mother in the belly, then return to fight the retarded version of whoever attacked him in the first place. If the Flash would do such things (see 2.), this would rule out most, if not all, mutants and metahumans - while, for example, Thor would be fine because the Flash couldn't as easily punch Jörd in the belly. However, that doesn't make Thor any more powerful... it's just some blanket immunity vs. that particular form of time travel.
Theoretically the strongest superhero in DC would be anyone in the green lantern corps as his powers are only limited by his imagination and the ring is the strongest weapon in the DC universe as mentioned by the writers themselves.
Although superman prime did beat a top tier green lantern before, it was only because that green lantern was still considered a rookie ( a skilled one but a rookie non the less) and they were fighting over a substance which was like kyrptonite to green lanterns.
The sentry would be the strongest Earth based Marvel Hero because a) he is the only one capable and has beaten the Hulk (who was considered by many to be the strongest) solo, and b) The Hulk is barely considered a hero.
The Marvel universe has a whole bunch of cosmic hero crap going on that I don't follow and not to sure about, but I guess Silver surfer would be #1 cosmic hero?
On September 11 2011 21:04 RPR_Tempest wrote: [quote] ...Okay, here we go.
Goku's powers pale in comparison to Vegito/Vegetto's powers, and if you watch the show that should be obvious, so no further explanation needed there. Outside of Buu and fused characters, Gohan is stronger than Goku.
Why?
Goku was scared to fight Super Buu, the same Buu Gohan destroyed without even trying.
Game. Set. Match.
i think at the end of the series goku is clearly the strongest (disregarding fusion forms...)
I think Mystic Gohan comes very very close to SSJ3 Goku
He's actually much, much stronger.
But it's moot. Flash is the most powerful once he became the speed force. He basically is a fundamental force of the universe while still being an actual superhero, so he fits the criteria. Superman? Well, sorry, you can't do anything that pertains to movement! Oh, you'd like to attack him? Sorry, can't move. You'd like to think of a plan, or for that matter, anything at all and any course of action for which to take? Welp, that sucks, because thinking requires the transfer of information in your brains! You're completely frozen in space at his will with no ability to think or act, and, well, you can't pull the "hit him so fast he can't execute these powers" gimmick because he's literally the essence of all things speed. Goku? Ditto! Then an infinite mass punch through the brain. Flash, going all out, is the most absurdly powerful comic book character who still counts as a superhero.
The downside is that using all of his power runs the risk of him disappearing forever (except not because comic books). In a full out, 1 on 1 fight, Flash > All and it's not even close.
The speed force is far from the most powerful force in the omniverse.
Yeah, but it's the most powerful force any generic superhero has. A lot of people are bringing up things like The Living Tribunal and The One Above All, but that's not in the parameters of the question -- just because they're found in comic books doesn't mean they're super heros. There's plenty of non-superhero comic book characters and they are one.
The Flash is, by all accounts, your typical super hero in every way and controls ONE of the fundamental powers of the universe that makes him essentially immortal and capable of, well, all that stuff I put up there.
No it's not. The power cosmic and the Phoenix force are two examples (see the Silver Surfer and Jean Grey). Superman Prime is also a lot more powerful than Flash (and even Black Flash), so are the superheroes which got hold of the Infinity Gauntlet or other similar artefacts.
Not sure how you can compare the Phoenix Force. Anyhow, the power cosmic is very vague and frequently beaten -- it tends to be a certain "level" of the power cosmic. It's hard to compare Marvel to DC side by side. Silver Surfer still acts and thinks like a normal being and would, quite easily, be frozen in space and ripped to pieces by Flash. Some of the super intrinsic beings who operate the power cosmic, maybe not, but all superheroes who operate it tend to have the limits of being rather ordinary beings operating the power.
Anyhow, with the infinity gauntlet, are any superheros, at their current base in continuity, in possession of it? Like, is there any superhero right now who, when listing their abilities, you would go "has the infinity gauntlet and is therefore omnipotent," ? I don't religiously keep up with comics, but usually the answer is no since that thing gets broken up frequently.
Getting back to the phoenix force, Jean Grey isn't really a superhero whenever she's in full control of the phoenix force. She's just your atypical omnipotent superbeing who does as it wishes -- this is a disgustingly frequent and regurgitated plotline for the X-Men. Jean goes full phoenix to beat some threat, flies off wistfully.. The reason I brought up Flash is because he IS the speed force while retaining his entire superhero identity.
Superman Prime is a supervillain. He USED to be good then went all evil and voila, he's excluded. And frankly, he's so casually engaged by so many forces (Normal Superman, The Green Lanterns fucking imprisoned him once his armor was broken), would you really put him over Flash when he's in absolute control of the speed force, considering who's beaten him before? Could just move himself and Prime near a natural red sun and he crumples.
First of all, the Silver Surfer would certainly not be "frozen in space and ripped to pieces by Flash". That's just not true - he's a more powerful being than Flash in practically every way. Regarding the Infinity Gauntlet, you are correct in saying that it is not currently being wielded by anyone. Regarding Jean Grey, she IS a superhero and for you to dismiss her as not when she's in full control of the phoenix force is clear intellectual dishonesty - last time I checked, Flash doesn't live at full speed. He's also not the speed force, he gets his powers from the speed force.
Hm? I thought Wally West (or was it Allen? bleh I shouldn't be arguing when I'm sleep deprived) became the actual embodiment of the speed force when something happened to it in the infinite crisis (It's been awhile so maybe things have changed. It was after he died for like the fourth time, after he became the Black Flash and the whole black lantern corps thing).
While the Silver Surfer seemingly has the power to just waive off Galactus and do whatever he wants because "the power cosmic," he frequently gets removed from his board by pretty mundane means. Half the time he gets freaking tackled. I figure it wouldn't be nearly as easy, but my main beef with saying Surfer would beat Flash is that almost all of Surfer's actions require some course of though and deliberation and action. He can't think or act nearly as fast as all out speed force Flash, and could be absolutely frozen, or taken to the end or beginning of time where the power cosmic has no basis (one of the speed force's perks).
Jean Grey operates as "The Phoenix" in her normal identity frequently. But whenever she's at super powerful "dark phoenix" mode she's never in her superhero good guy mode. I think this is pretty ticky tack so Phoenix might be a good pick to win this whole hypothetical. At the very least, Flash is way up there. Whenever Phoenix went all "embodiment of the universe and all things" mode it seemed like it was just another one of those ambiguous, pointless omnipotent beings they toss into stories, as opposed to Jean Grey herself.
What I'm saying is, Flash (non-embodiment of the speed force Flash) once completely froze the entirety of all the heroes on Earth, including Superman, by just stealing all of their ability to operate, which included thinking or acting. If Flash sees you and can think as fast or faster than you and you aren't somehow immune to the speed force, he can trap you and rip you apart atom by atom.
I know Wally West (and others) have become the embodiment of the Speed Force in the past, but I did not think it was still currently the case. It's possible, so I may be wrong. That doesn't really matter however, since I maintain that the Speed Force is not the most powerful force wielded by superheroes in the omniverse.
The Silver Surfer does not get his powers from his board (only in the movie), so I'm not sure what your point is. It is hard to know which one is faster, since the Surfer can move/react/think way faster than the speed of light, and since he is more powerful than Flash in every other department he would easily have the upper hand. Finally, I don't think your objection to Jean Grey has merit since she has been shown to be herself while having the power of the Phoenix.
On September 12 2011 00:30 wei2coolman wrote: Favorite Hero:Batman Strongest Hero: Batman.
Given sufficient prep time, Batman can beat any superhero.
No. That's just a dumb cliché that Batman fanboys spout because of how Batman stories are constructed.
Favorite superhero would probably have to be batman
But in terms of strongest I'd put thor/hulk (depending on the day) or the flash for top contenders. All the debate about silver surfer is moot. He was knocked out by the thing.
On September 12 2011 04:03 Mente wrote: Favorite superhero would probably have to be batman
But in terms of strongest I'd put thor/hulk (depending on the day) or the flash for top contenders. All the debate about silver surfer is moot. He was knocked out by the thing.
It is established beyond debate that he is vastly more powerful than the thing (and more powerful than the hulk). Which fight are you referring to?
On September 12 2011 03:55 Zeke50100 wrote: Alright, I know you guys really like Goku, Superman, etc., but let's be realistic.
Haruhi is the strongest super hero.
Since we are still missing an ending I don't know about that. Yuki is theoretically stronger, but maybe she only exists because Haruhi wants her to, etc... Or Kyon is the actual god. Who knows.
In one of the episodes where Goku is facing a member of the Ginyu force, Vegeta I believe it was states that Goku is moving faster than the speed of light. That was before SSJ1. The end episodes have them merging and going into SSJ9. How anyone can argue that these characters going 1, maybe 2 times the speed of light can beat Goku is just outright stupid, and a huge math fail.
Realizing this, and by the end of the series DB GT, Krillin could wipe the floor with Superman.
Ok I found this on another forum a long time ago. I feel like this is appropriate.
The Motherfucking Flash Now, I don't know how many of you dogs of the scurviest sea read comics, but I have a big pile of comics. One thing that blows my mind is how completely insane the powers in the DC universe are. Look at Superman. This guy has more powers than French restaurants have ways to say "your taste in wine is atrocious". He has powers to do with every part of his body and then some. He forgets powers sometimes. He can shoot heat rays out of his eyes, frost breath from his mouth and red son radiation from his ass. He's that sort of crazy dude. All because he absorbs solar radiation.
Look at Batman. His power? The anti-power. Sure, he should be some tame, kung fu master of not much, but instead he's the hottest shit to ever shit on a plate. You got a power? He'll find your weakness and give you seizures or heart attacks. He'll light you on fire when you're sleeping or make you recharge your green lantern ring in the power outlet. Ten thousand volts of fuck you batman. That's Batman.
But the fucking Flash, my god, my FUCKING GOD, this man has the greatest powers of all. If Superman's powers are being sucked off by twin super models and batman coming home to discover your wife is not only bisexual but has two friends she wants you to 'get in on' then the Flash is an orgy with a thousand women who also want to pay your World of Warcraft billing. And click the mouse for you. This man is just that fucking hot. They have to power him down in the comics half the time just to keep him from doing everyone else's job.
Ok first off, he can travel at light speed. Mother fuck! Not only does he travel at light speed, but time slows down for him. So he feels like he's having a casual jog or reading the paper, meanwhile, his feet are moving so fast you can hear him coming from Montana while he's already gotten to Arizona. That's fucking fast. But wait! The ability to move at Light Speed just isn't fucking enough!
I know! Christ this guy can punch you so many times in a second you've been hit five times in the cock and two times everywhere else. You think you're about to fight the Flash and then it hits you, for the last split second he's beaned your beanbags with more blows than you had sperm. But no, there's more!
The Flash can also vibrate through walls. Now last I heard, you can not move so fast you can vibrate through walls, so what actually happens is the Flash is so fast he can pick and choose the movement of his individual molecules and move them through other solid objects, phasing through solid matter like it ain't no thing. I mean you think a guy who runs at light speed would run into shit but no, the Flash just goes right through them. To top that with a cherry and some whipped cream (which the Flash made in like a millisecond, fucker) he can selectively choose to cause objects to be "okay" afterwards or FUCKING EXPLODE. That's right. He can run through you and make you blow up by transferring kinetic energy into you. Like Jesus. IT's bad enough you can't hit this guy, but he doesn't even have to punch you. Now your testicles have exploded and you're thinking you're about to hit him. Jesus? Just give it up. He's the fucking Flash.
Now imagine that somehow there's someone who can get around the Flash blowing your balls up secret ninja technique. Ok. He can also control the flow of energy between objects. This power makes no sense but basically he can throw a rock at you, and you think it's going slow and then he's like WHOOHOOO WIZARDLY FLASH POWERS and bam it's going at light speed. So he can throw seven million rocks at you in a second then make them all goes different speeds thus striking your nads with seven million rocks one after the other.
But wait! There's more! He can also take energy from the very power of speed and make clothes out of it. Yes. Flash makes his pants out of GOES FAST. The man is so fast he can make Flash pants that GOES FAST go right into. I don't even start to understand the physics of that but basically SPEED == REALLY TIGHT UNDERWEAR AND COOL LIGHTNING THINGIES OVER THE EAR. You would think this is the end of it but ok let's say Flash is fighting Superman and shit he's going to lose and FUCK how is Superman THIS fucking strong? I don't know he must be Superman fused with Batman into some sort of guy with tons of plans on how to punch you far harder than anyone else ok to end it off the Flash can GO BACK OR FORWARD IN TIME ON COMMAND.
How do you beat this dude? You're thinking you're hashing him good, laying down the beat-down, missing your balls and suddenly BAM YOUR MOM FELL DOWN THE STAIRS TWENTY YEARS AGO and there's a dent in your forehead and Superman not thunk so gud no more. Actually she didn't fall down the stairs the Flash put speed into them so they fell up her! Fuck you Flash! You moved the stairs to Soviet fucking Russia! RUSH-A! Bitch.
Oh, and lastly his greatest power is he isn't fast in bed. He takes it slow and gets all the ladies with his superpowers then actually satisfies them in the sack. Who the Hell is this guy? You'd think he could AT LEAST be a premature ejaculator since his penis is moving at light speed but NOOOO he's even good in bed.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Wolverine sucks cock and should go die in a freak grease fire.
On September 12 2011 07:49 norterrible wrote: Look at Batman. His power? The anti-power. Sure, he should be some tame, kung fu master of not much, but instead he's the hottest shit to ever shit on a plate. You got a power? He'll find your weakness and give you seizures or heart attacks. He'll light you on fire when you're sleeping or make you recharge your green lantern ring in the power outlet. Ten thousand volts of fuck you batman. That's Batman.
On September 12 2011 05:34 Desirous wrote: In one of the episodes where Goku is facing a member of the Ginyu force, Vegeta I believe it was states that Goku is moving faster than the speed of light. That was before SSJ1. The end episodes have them merging and going into SSJ9. How anyone can argue that these characters going 1, maybe 2 times the speed of light can beat Goku is just outright stupid, and a huge math fail.
Realizing this, and by the end of the series DB GT, Krillin could wipe the floor with Superman.
Superman Prime or Dr. Manhattan can take your whole DBZ universe fighters one vs everyone and still they wont do shit against them.
Immortal means they cant die and noone is immortal from DBZ . No matter how much their power lvl they will still lose in the end. Seriously some ppl need to use the part of their brain that uses logic sometimes.
Telepathy and Telekinesis, with no real limit. It's just flat out scary when you think of its potential. Something like her is capable of controlling all of creation.
On September 12 2011 09:02 kilergrunt wrote: Favorite Hero: Deadpool Strongest Hero: Dr. Manhattan I mean, how can you be more powerful than Dr. Manhattan?
...pretty easily? He would not even have been able to stop all of the missiles the USSR could have fired at the US.
On September 12 2011 09:02 kilergrunt wrote: Favorite Hero: Deadpool Strongest Hero: Dr. Manhattan I mean, how can you be more powerful than Dr. Manhattan?
...pretty easily? He would not even have been able to stop all of the missiles the USSR could have fired at the US.
And hows that a indication of his power? So the nukes can kill him or what ? Did the nukes were fired and he "failed" ? It was his prediction that he "might" miss some of the nukes but he was more like " eh i dont really care " . He could destroy the Earth if he feels like it just his personality is really wierd so you dont know what he is thinking.
On September 12 2011 09:02 kilergrunt wrote: Favorite Hero: Deadpool Strongest Hero: Dr. Manhattan I mean, how can you be more powerful than Dr. Manhattan?
...pretty easily? He would not even have been able to stop all of the missiles the USSR could have fired at the US.
And hows that a indication of his power? So the nukes can kill him or what ? Did the nukes were fired and he "failed" ? It was his prediction that he "might" miss some of the nukes but he was more like " eh i dont really care " . He could destroy the Earth if he feels like it just his personality is really wierd so you dont know what he is thinking.
That's an indication of the limits of his power yes... Other characters would have been able to stop the nukes in the blink of an eye.
On September 12 2011 07:49 norterrible wrote: Ok I found this on another forum a long time ago. I feel like this is appropriate.
The Motherfucking Flash Now, I don't know how many of you dogs of the scurviest sea read comics, but I have a big pile of comics. One thing that blows my mind is how completely insane the powers in the DC universe are. Look at Superman. This guy has more powers than French restaurants have ways to say "your taste in wine is atrocious". He has powers to do with every part of his body and then some. He forgets powers sometimes. He can shoot heat rays out of his eyes, frost breath from his mouth and red son radiation from his ass. He's that sort of crazy dude. All because he absorbs solar radiation.
Look at Batman. His power? The anti-power. Sure, he should be some tame, kung fu master of not much, but instead he's the hottest shit to ever shit on a plate. You got a power? He'll find your weakness and give you seizures or heart attacks. He'll light you on fire when you're sleeping or make you recharge your green lantern ring in the power outlet. Ten thousand volts of fuck you batman. That's Batman.
But the fucking Flash, my god, my FUCKING GOD, this man has the greatest powers of all. If Superman's powers are being sucked off by twin super models and batman coming home to discover your wife is not only bisexual but has two friends she wants you to 'get in on' then the Flash is an orgy with a thousand women who also want to pay your World of Warcraft billing. And click the mouse for you. This man is just that fucking hot. They have to power him down in the comics half the time just to keep him from doing everyone else's job.
Ok first off, he can travel at light speed. Mother fuck! Not only does he travel at light speed, but time slows down for him. So he feels like he's having a casual jog or reading the paper, meanwhile, his feet are moving so fast you can hear him coming from Montana while he's already gotten to Arizona. That's fucking fast. But wait! The ability to move at Light Speed just isn't fucking enough!
I know! Christ this guy can punch you so many times in a second you've been hit five times in the cock and two times everywhere else. You think you're about to fight the Flash and then it hits you, for the last split second he's beaned your beanbags with more blows than you had sperm. But no, there's more!
The Flash can also vibrate through walls. Now last I heard, you can not move so fast you can vibrate through walls, so what actually happens is the Flash is so fast he can pick and choose the movement of his individual molecules and move them through other solid objects, phasing through solid matter like it ain't no thing. I mean you think a guy who runs at light speed would run into shit but no, the Flash just goes right through them. To top that with a cherry and some whipped cream (which the Flash made in like a millisecond, fucker) he can selectively choose to cause objects to be "okay" afterwards or FUCKING EXPLODE. That's right. He can run through you and make you blow up by transferring kinetic energy into you. Like Jesus. IT's bad enough you can't hit this guy, but he doesn't even have to punch you. Now your testicles have exploded and you're thinking you're about to hit him. Jesus? Just give it up. He's the fucking Flash.
Now imagine that somehow there's someone who can get around the Flash blowing your balls up secret ninja technique. Ok. He can also control the flow of energy between objects. This power makes no sense but basically he can throw a rock at you, and you think it's going slow and then he's like WHOOHOOO WIZARDLY FLASH POWERS and bam it's going at light speed. So he can throw seven million rocks at you in a second then make them all goes different speeds thus striking your nads with seven million rocks one after the other.
But wait! There's more! He can also take energy from the very power of speed and make clothes out of it. Yes. Flash makes his pants out of GOES FAST. The man is so fast he can make Flash pants that GOES FAST go right into. I don't even start to understand the physics of that but basically SPEED == REALLY TIGHT UNDERWEAR AND COOL LIGHTNING THINGIES OVER THE EAR. You would think this is the end of it but ok let's say Flash is fighting Superman and shit he's going to lose and FUCK how is Superman THIS fucking strong? I don't know he must be Superman fused with Batman into some sort of guy with tons of plans on how to punch you far harder than anyone else ok to end it off the Flash can GO BACK OR FORWARD IN TIME ON COMMAND.
How do you beat this dude? You're thinking you're hashing him good, laying down the beat-down, missing your balls and suddenly BAM YOUR MOM FELL DOWN THE STAIRS TWENTY YEARS AGO and there's a dent in your forehead and Superman not thunk so gud no more. Actually she didn't fall down the stairs the Flash put speed into them so they fell up her! Fuck you Flash! You moved the stairs to Soviet fucking Russia! RUSH-A! Bitch.
Oh, and lastly his greatest power is he isn't fast in bed. He takes it slow and gets all the ladies with his superpowers then actually satisfies them in the sack. Who the Hell is this guy? You'd think he could AT LEAST be a premature ejaculator since his penis is moving at light speed but NOOOO he's even good in bed.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Wolverine sucks cock and should go die in a freak grease fire.
That was an amazing post... I couldn't stop laughing thank you for sharing that, you may have turned me to the Flash side.
But on another note i dont read comics but ALL the super heroes are fucking rigged as hell, how the universe is still standing i don't know.
Stretching the defination of "hero" to breaking point and arriving at anti-hero we have Judge Dredd, 2000AD's biggest badass and chief protagonist. Iron willed, unapologetically authoritarian and prone to harsh justice, up to and including summary execution. If Dredd had his way every character in this thread would be placed under arrest for vigilantism (in fact Dredd did place Batman under arrest for precisely this reason in a 2000AD/Marvel cross over).
Spidermans worst day is what Dredd deals with 9-5 every damn day of the week in megacity 1. In fact when comes to actually preventing crime Dredd's probably done a better job of it than the the entire DC universe. Most of the people hes arrrested stay behind bars for than 5 minutes and the ones that don't normally end up dead.
Strongest Superhero
In the game of "my omnipotent all powerful super being is better than your omnipotent all powerful super being" I've decided to go straight to defcon 1. No messing about, It's time to go with someone who has a track record in defeating the omnipotent and can defy not just mundane things like the the laws of physics but even logical conjecture itself. A man whos very motto is "kick reason to the curb"
Simon - Tengen Toppa Guren Lagann
Do the impossible see the invisible row! row! fight the power!
Touch the untoucheable break the unbreakable row! row! fight the power!
He meets all the the criteria for a superhero.
1) He's got a cape and outlandish fashion sense. 2) He's the very defination of heroism (it's the essential driving theme of the entire plot of the anime) 3) He saves the universe via asskicking. 4) He's the main character. Which is more than can be said about the likes of Superman prime and God.
Without spoiling to much for those that haven't seen the anime, I will simply leave you with this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MfmjdbbasY
Yes, it is the size of a galaxy. And hes just getting warmed up...
On September 12 2011 05:34 Desirous wrote: In one of the episodes where Goku is facing a member of the Ginyu force, Vegeta I believe it was states that Goku is moving faster than the speed of light. That was before SSJ1. The end episodes have them merging and going into SSJ9. How anyone can argue that these characters going 1, maybe 2 times the speed of light can beat Goku is just outright stupid, and a huge math fail.
Realizing this, and by the end of the series DB GT, Krillin could wipe the floor with Superman.
Superman Prime or Dr. Manhattan can take your whole DBZ universe fighters one vs everyone and still they wont do shit against them.
Immortal means they cant die and noone is immortal from DBZ . No matter how much their power lvl they will still lose in the end. Seriously some ppl need to use the part of their brain that uses logic sometimes.
Goku's SSJ4 form is so powerful that it defies logic/the rules of the universe and thus he is able to ignore even wishes from the Dragonballs
MYSTIC GOHAN IS THE STRONGEST NON-FUSION WARRIOR IN DRAGONBALL Z
by the way
goku isn't close to gohan until GT and that's only because Gohan pretty much stopped his training. The strongest character in DBGT is probably Omega Shenron because iirc Goku has to use a universal spirit bomb or something to defeat the dragon
On September 12 2011 05:34 Desirous wrote: In one of the episodes where Goku is facing a member of the Ginyu force, Vegeta I believe it was states that Goku is moving faster than the speed of light. That was before SSJ1. The end episodes have them merging and going into SSJ9. How anyone can argue that these characters going 1, maybe 2 times the speed of light can beat Goku is just outright stupid, and a huge math fail.
Realizing this, and by the end of the series DB GT, Krillin could wipe the floor with Superman.
Superman Prime or Dr. Manhattan can take your whole DBZ universe fighters one vs everyone and still they wont do shit against them.
Immortal means they cant die and noone is immortal from DBZ . No matter how much their power lvl they will still lose in the end. Seriously some ppl need to use the part of their brain that uses logic sometimes.
On September 12 2011 10:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: MYSTIC GOHAN IS THE STRONGEST NON-FUSION WARRIOR IN DRAGONBALL Z
by the way
goku isn't close to gohan until GT and that's only because Gohan pretty much stopped his training. The strongest character in DBGT is probably Omega Shenron because iirc Goku has to use a universal spirit bomb or something to defeat the dragon
goku later surpassed mystic gohan in ss3 form in one of the movies i think, but during buu saga yeah he was stronger
On September 12 2011 05:34 Desirous wrote: In one of the episodes where Goku is facing a member of the Ginyu force, Vegeta I believe it was states that Goku is moving faster than the speed of light. That was before SSJ1. The end episodes have them merging and going into SSJ9. How anyone can argue that these characters going 1, maybe 2 times the speed of light can beat Goku is just outright stupid, and a huge math fail.
Realizing this, and by the end of the series DB GT, Krillin could wipe the floor with Superman.
Superman Prime or Dr. Manhattan can take your whole DBZ universe fighters one vs everyone and still they wont do shit against them.
Immortal means they cant die and noone is immortal from DBZ . No matter how much their power lvl they will still lose in the end. Seriously some ppl need to use the part of their brain that uses logic sometimes.
EXACTLY, thank you lol
That is true if you pertain only to the DBZ universe but if it is the entirety of the Dragon Ball Universe Goku becomes an immortal, the dragon god, at the end of the GT series.
So replying to another post in this thread, yup Goku was weaker still than Omega Shenron but after defeating him, he became in essense, the new shenron/dragon god so in effect the most powerful in the whole Dragon Ball universe, from the original kid goku series, to Z to GT. =)
I'm enjoying this thread but it does amuse me when people who are arguing about the relative power of imaginary characters are demanding others use their logic
For me, I'll take Sandman. None of y'all can beat him.
Most of the super s class comic book heroes are far beyond any dbz character- super strength / energy/concussive blasts is just a small part of these guys' powersets. Without some form of reality warping on the cosmic scale you can't compete with the big guns in marvel and to a lesser extent dc.
Hell pret-retconned beyonder/molecule man can make/unmake the universe on a whim.
On September 12 2011 05:34 Desirous wrote: In one of the episodes where Goku is facing a member of the Ginyu force, Vegeta I believe it was states that Goku is moving faster than the speed of light. That was before SSJ1. The end episodes have them merging and going into SSJ9. How anyone can argue that these characters going 1, maybe 2 times the speed of light can beat Goku is just outright stupid, and a huge math fail.
Realizing this, and by the end of the series DB GT, Krillin could wipe the floor with Superman.
Vegeta never said that Goku was moving faster than the speed of light, and that scene where Goku is moving so fast we can't see it is filler, meaning it was only in the anime, not the manga. That makes it non-canon.
On September 12 2011 05:34 Desirous wrote: In one of the episodes where Goku is facing a member of the Ginyu force, Vegeta I believe it was states that Goku is moving faster than the speed of light. That was before SSJ1. The end episodes have them merging and going into SSJ9. How anyone can argue that these characters going 1, maybe 2 times the speed of light can beat Goku is just outright stupid, and a huge math fail.
Realizing this, and by the end of the series DB GT, Krillin could wipe the floor with Superman.
Vegeta never said that Goku was moving faster than the speed of light, and that scene where Goku is moving so fast we can't see it is filler, meaning it was only in the anime, not the manga. That makes it non-canon.
If its in the official Anime, then it still counts as far as which superhero is better. If you like, we can specify Anime-Goku.
On September 12 2011 05:34 Desirous wrote: In one of the episodes where Goku is facing a member of the Ginyu force, Vegeta I believe it was states that Goku is moving faster than the speed of light. That was before SSJ1. The end episodes have them merging and going into SSJ9. How anyone can argue that these characters going 1, maybe 2 times the speed of light can beat Goku is just outright stupid, and a huge math fail.
Realizing this, and by the end of the series DB GT, Krillin could wipe the floor with Superman.
Superman Prime or Dr. Manhattan can take your whole DBZ universe fighters one vs everyone and still they wont do shit against them.
Immortal means they cant die and noone is immortal from DBZ . No matter how much their power lvl they will still lose in the end. Seriously some ppl need to use the part of their brain that uses logic sometimes.
If they're all immortal then logically they're all equal because they can't die. So hypothetically if they got into a fight with eachother the fight would never end.
You could argue and say that one was "winning" the fight in that he was landing more hits, but it still wouldn't matter because you can't kill something that immortal right?
It's like trying to argue that 1 is > 1 or as Boxer put it T>T
There's quite a few villains/heroes that basically have the powers of a god. But only one of them has the balls to walk around butt naked and still kick ass.
On September 12 2011 05:34 Desirous wrote: In one of the episodes where Goku is facing a member of the Ginyu force, Vegeta I believe it was states that Goku is moving faster than the speed of light. That was before SSJ1. The end episodes have them merging and going into SSJ9. How anyone can argue that these characters going 1, maybe 2 times the speed of light can beat Goku is just outright stupid, and a huge math fail.
Realizing this, and by the end of the series DB GT, Krillin could wipe the floor with Superman.
Vegeta never said that Goku was moving faster than the speed of light, and that scene where Goku is moving so fast we can't see it is filler, meaning it was only in the anime, not the manga. That makes it non-canon.
If its in the official Anime, then it still counts as far as which superhero is better. If you like, we can specify Anime-Goku.
Was it the English (either Funimation or Ocean Dub) dub? If so, it was most likely a translation error. I don't recall Vegeta ever saying that Goku was "faster than the speed of light."
On September 12 2011 05:34 Desirous wrote: In one of the episodes where Goku is facing a member of the Ginyu force, Vegeta I believe it was states that Goku is moving faster than the speed of light. That was before SSJ1. The end episodes have them merging and going into SSJ9. How anyone can argue that these characters going 1, maybe 2 times the speed of light can beat Goku is just outright stupid, and a huge math fail.
Realizing this, and by the end of the series DB GT, Krillin could wipe the floor with Superman.
Vegeta never said that Goku was moving faster than the speed of light, and that scene where Goku is moving so fast we can't see it is filler, meaning it was only in the anime, not the manga. That makes it non-canon.
If its in the official Anime, then it still counts as far as which superhero is better. If you like, we can specify Anime-Goku.
The problem with that is, Vegeta can blow up Earth in the Saiyan saga, but by the Buu saga, even when their most powerful attacks hit the Earth, the Earth doesn't explode. Powers were scaled back later on Buu saga, their powers were basically retconned into being less destructive. It counts for speed, strength (Base Goku can't lift 40 tons in the Buu saga) and their destructive force.
So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I have always disliked finding the most powerful characters, they are pretty much zero interesting.
1.Favourite superguy would be itachi from naruto but i dont think he counts as superhero. Next on the line would be kingpin, a little bit more like a superhero since he comes from marvel comics but unfortunately he is a supervillain and not sure if that counts either. Finally, the one who has to be accepted as superhero would be the ever so kind Professor X that actually tries to build a better world instead of destroying evil.
2.Im going to say Dr. Strange on the strongest superhero, since i have some interest in fantasy magic(and this guy seems to be too strong for the comics sake).
DBZ is way too inconsistent and full of plot holes to be taken seriously. In theory someone like SSJ3 Goku should be able to destroy the earth with his energy without much effort and like Tempest said if they were strong enough to destroy Earth in the Saiyan saga it's absurd that the Spirit Bomb didn't destroy namek or that super kamehamehas don't destroy earth during the Cell Saga or whatever.
DBZ is pretty much for fun. I think comics are approached with a lot more seriousness.
On September 12 2011 18:12 Confuse wrote: Favorite Superhero: Enjoyed one or another most at one time or another but right now its Batman Strongest Superhero: Goku from DBGT
stop the anime nerd in me cant stand it goku is not the strongest character in dbz, gohan is. only in the technically non-canon DBGT is he the strongest
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
On September 10 2011 05:06 Blahbleh wrote: Again this comes back to which superman you are referring to. Superman Prime can time travel as well.. and no long has any weaknesses.
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes. Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality.
OK - This is just pure moronism, because he isn't a superhero - he is an actual god. By god I mean an omni-fucking-everything entity, capable of fucking everything anytime without a possibility to end its existence. That, my dear sir, is a textbook definition of a god, which would sound like: GOD - "An Absolute Entity, Unlimited In Terms Of Existence And Activities". So, following that, we should exclude guys such us:
On September 12 2011 18:16 17Sphynx17 wrote: 1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
(Why Thor though?)
The first page of this thread should be updated with limitations, such as godlike existence and reality benders, because in terms of "which is better", gods and reality shapers/time travelers will always have unfair advantage. You know, arguments like strength of Hulk/the Thing or even speed of Flash doesn't matter, because Scarlet witch or molecule man would just erase them from reality/existence. BAM. Problem solved.
So, having said that - My favourite is Spider-man, the strongest would still be flash/quicksilver (depending on dc/marvel), because speed pretty much tops everything else.
Heh, I love those "who would win" threads, because aside form gods, I could argue that every hero/villain can be defeated by another hero/villain depending on situation
On September 10 2011 05:06 Blahbleh wrote: Again this comes back to which superman you are referring to. Superman Prime can time travel as well.. and no long has any weaknesses.
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes. Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality.
OK - This is just pure moronism, because he isn't a superhero - he is an actual god. By god I mean an omni-fucking-everything entity, capable of fucking everything anytime without a possibility to end its existence. That, my dear sir, is a textbook definition of a god, which would sound like: GOD - "An Absolute Entity, Unlimited In Terms Of Existence And Activities". So, following that, we should exclude guys such us:
On September 12 2011 18:16 17Sphynx17 wrote: 1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
(Why Thor though?)
The first page of this thread should be updated with limitations, such as godlike existence and reality benders, because in terms of "which is better", gods and reality shapers/time travelers will always have unfair advantage. You know, arguments like strength of Hulk/the Thing or even speed of Flash doesn't matter, because Scarlet witch or molecule man would just erase them from reality/existence. BAM. Problem solved.
So, having said that - My favourite is Spider-man, the strongest would still be flash/quicksilver (depending on dc/marvel), because speed pretty much tops everything else.
Heh, I love those "who would win" threads, because aside form gods, I could argue that every hero/villain can be defeated by another hero/villain depending on situation
How would Flash defeat the Silver Surfer then, considering both are fast enough to travel in time and the Silver Surfer is more powerful in every other department?
On September 10 2011 05:06 Blahbleh wrote: Again this comes back to which superman you are referring to. Superman Prime can time travel as well.. and no long has any weaknesses.
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes. Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality.
OK - This is just pure moronism, because he isn't a superhero - he is an actual god. By god I mean an omni-fucking-everything entity, capable of fucking everything anytime without a possibility to end its existence. That, my dear sir, is a textbook definition of a god, which would sound like: GOD - "An Absolute Entity, Unlimited In Terms Of Existence And Activities". So, following that, we should exclude guys such us:
On September 12 2011 18:16 17Sphynx17 wrote: 1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
(Why Thor though?)
The first page of this thread should be updated with limitations, such as godlike existence and reality benders, because in terms of "which is better", gods and reality shapers/time travelers will always have unfair advantage. You know, arguments like strength of Hulk/the Thing or even speed of Flash doesn't matter, because Scarlet witch or molecule man would just erase them from reality/existence. BAM. Problem solved.
So, having said that - My favourite is Spider-man, the strongest would still be flash/quicksilver (depending on dc/marvel), because speed pretty much tops everything else.
Heh, I love those "who would win" threads, because aside form gods, I could argue that every hero/villain can be defeated by another hero/villain depending on situation
How would Flash defeat the Silver Surfer then, considering both are fast enough to travel in time and the Silver Surfer is more powerful in every other department?
I dunno, it seems like a very vague contest about who would get the first hit in, though they're both technically immortal (seeing as everytime a major Flash dies they just re-emerge from the Speed Force). I just don't think there's a reasonable metric on who does what first because, well, Silver Surfer can just at will create a black hole wherever Flash is and Flash can punch a blackhole into another universe so who knows.
1) Who's your favorite superhero? Dunno if I can call him superhero, but Akagi is the God of Mahjong. From comics Batman. I dislike the idea of heroes have mega overpowered powers (although Batman has the monies).
2) Who do you believe to be the most powerful hero? Suzumiya Haruhi. Everyone eventually will succumb to Haruhism!
Have you red my post? I said godlike beings are out. Silver surfer out. When I said "Flash as the speed of force" I was assuming that whoever wrote that before me was talking about some other flash than the standard DC comics one. Has the standard one travel through time at some point? (I don't read dc too much) If so, I would exclude him too and leave only quicksilver. He didn't bend time once.
On September 12 2011 20:04 kudlaty_true wrote: Have you red my post? I said godlike beings are out. Silver surfer out. When I said "Flash as the speed of force" I was assuming that whoever wrote that before me was talking about some other flash than the standard DC comics one. Has the standard one travel through time at some point? (I don't read dc too much) If so, I would exclude him too and leave only quicksilver. He didn't bend time once.
Flash literally ran to the end of time before (to escape the Black Flash, who he became because the Black Flash was the speed force and blah blah comic book explanations are weird).
On September 12 2011 20:04 kudlaty_true wrote: Have you red my post? I said godlike beings are out. Silver surfer out. When I said "Flash as the speed of force" I was assuming that whoever wrote that before me was talking about some other flash than the standard DC comics one. Has the standard one travel through time at some point? (I don't read dc too much) If so, I would exclude him too and leave only quicksilver. He didn't bend time once.
How the hell is the Silver Surfer a godlike being? He certainly does not conform to the definition you posted.
Though, frankly, I'm not sure why we're talking Surfer when Sentry is clearly and impeccably stronger than him as far as Marvel Superheros go. He's basically immune to any assault by the power cosmic and infinitely powerful (he even surpasses a lot of surfers abilities, like how Surfer can't resurrect the dead with his life manipulation but Sentry can etc). I'd say of guys who are consistently under the "hero" definition, Sentry is the strongest Marvel hero and Flash is the go to "beat any big bad" DC hero (like how the Flashes were the only guys who could beat Superboy Prime).
Somewhere on the first 7 or so pages of this thread someone posted all of his powers explaining the silver surfer dillema. Assuming of course he is on his board
On September 12 2011 20:04 kudlaty_true wrote: Have you red my post? I said godlike beings are out. Silver surfer out. When I said "Flash as the speed of force" I was assuming that whoever wrote that before me was talking about some other flash than the standard DC comics one. Has the standard one travel through time at some point? (I don't read dc too much) If so, I would exclude him too and leave only quicksilver. He didn't bend time once.
Flash literally ran to the end of time before (to escape the Black Flash, who he became because the Black Flash was the speed force and blah blah comic book explanations are weird).
God damned, seriously? I mean, are the scenewriters are out of ideas for a comic book stories which aren't blown out of proportions? Ran to the end of time? ... It's ... eh
So, the green goblin was resurected how many times already?
On September 12 2011 20:13 kudlaty_true wrote: Somewhere on the first 7 or so pages of this thread someone posted all of his powers explaining the silver surfer dillema. Assuming of course he is on his board
First of all his power does not require him to be in contact with his board, that's just the movie version. Second, yes he's very powerful but he's not a godlike being in any way, which is why he's perfectly suited for this contest. If you're going to declare that he's a godlike being, the least you can do is present us with an argument.
Reading this thread , i now know why comic books are on the decline.. I mean wtf , Superman prime is an omnipotent god or something that is invincible?? Why the fuck does he have any enemies then?
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
Goku. Gogeta if he counts (probably not because it's a fusion) I guess. Like, at the end of GT he's actually just strong enough to destroy the entire universe if he wanted to.
Edit: Oh and I forgot to mention that the longer a saiyan fights, the stronger he grows, so, yeah.
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
The surfer has been shown to be able to fly without his board in the past, but I don't recall seeing him go as fast (I might be wrong). That's still irrelevant though, since he retains his reaction time, which is more than fast enough to blast Flash into oblivion, send him into a black hole, remove the air from around him, shrink him to the size of an ant, etc. etc. before Flash can even come close.
Sentry i think almost counts as a celestial on the same level with galactus and watcher right? He was allowed to be in attendance of their meeting for the battle with thanos with tribunal present as well as eternity/infinity.
He would surely beat surfer as he is immune to the power cosmic. That at least i would agree, i just dont know where or howto place him though. He is human but is he still mortal? I dont know much about his lore beyond that which ive stated.
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
The surfer has been shown to be able to fly without his board in the past, but I don't recall seeing him go as fast (I might be wrong). That's still irrelevant though, since he retains his reaction time, which is more than fast enough to blast Flash into oblivion, send him into a black hole, remove the air from around him, shrink him to the size of an ant, etc. etc. before Flash can even come close.
What makes you think this? Flash is fast enough to act on Super Prime, how is Silver Surfer somehow cosmically better than him?
Also, as if Flash needs air to live (He's literally ran into nothingness), or is if a Black Hole would beat him. Silver Surfer, in all iterations, is always shown as having to do some gesture or action to make things happen. It's not like he's infallibly omnipotent and everything he ever wants happens at will with no thought or delay. I think you're really overblowing the Silver Surfer.
About the flash... He's DC right? but in Marvel, correct me if I'm wrong, I remember their being a mutant (bad) that could absorb kinetic energy and not take damage from it so if the Flash punches him it won't do anything right?
On September 12 2011 20:55 17Sphynx17 wrote: Sentry i think almost counts as a celestial on the same level with galactus and watcher right? He was allowed to be in attendance of their meeting for the battle with thanos with tribunal present as well as eternity/infinity.
He would surely beat surfer as he is immune to the power cosmic. That at least i would agree, i just dont know where or howto place him though. He is human but is he still mortal? I dont know much about his lore beyond that which ive stated.
I believe you are thinking of Quasar, the latter attended the meeting with the abstract beings regarding Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet only because he was Epoch's champion. Most people believe the Silver Surfer would clearly defeat Sentry, since Sentry has never achieved anything on panel that would put him on SS's level. He got stalemated (well, he technically got beat) by World War Hulk and the Terrax he defeated was only a pale copy of the Terrax of the 1980s and 1990s. Since when is he immune to the power cosmic?
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
The surfer has been shown to be able to fly without his board in the past, but I don't recall seeing him go as fast (I might be wrong). That's still irrelevant though, since he retains his reaction time, which is more than fast enough to blast Flash into oblivion, send him into a black hole, remove the air from around him, shrink him to the size of an ant, etc. etc. before Flash can even come close.
What makes you think this? Flash is fast enough to act on Super Prime, how is Silver Surfer somehow cosmically better than him?
Also, as if Flash needs air to live (He's literally ran into nothingness), or is if a Black Hole would beat him. Silver Surfer, in all iterations, is always shown as having to do some gesture or action to make things happen. It's not like he's infallibly omnipotent and everything he ever wants happens at will with no thought or delay. I think you're really overblowing the Silver Surfer.
Absolutely nothing indicates that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer when it comes to reaction time. Even without his board, the Surfer would therefore quite easily defeat Flash with the power cosmic. Again, the Surfer is more powerful than Flash in every single other department, and has displayed speed feats at least equal to Flash's. See this Silver Surfer respect thread.
On September 10 2011 04:36 hrmM wrote: I think Batman has been proven to be capable of beating Superman. Superman is the best in raw strength and super powers, but Batman has the intelligence to beat it.
Who do you "prove" that a non existing person can beat another non existing person? :D
On September 12 2011 20:55 17Sphynx17 wrote: Sentry i think almost counts as a celestial on the same level with galactus and watcher right? He was allowed to be in attendance of their meeting for the battle with thanos with tribunal present as well as eternity/infinity.
He would surely beat surfer as he is immune to the power cosmic. That at least i would agree, i just dont know where or howto place him though. He is human but is he still mortal? I dont know much about his lore beyond that which ive stated.
I believe you are thinking of Quasar, the latter attended the meeting with the abstract beings regarding Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet only because he was Epoch's champion. Most people believe the Silver Surfer would clearly defeat Sentry, since Sentry has never achieved anything on panel that would put him on SS's level. He got stalemated (well, he technically got beat) by World War Hulk and the Terrax he defeated was only a pale copy of the Terrax of the 1980s and 1990s. Since when is he immune to the power cosmic?
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
The surfer has been shown to be able to fly without his board in the past, but I don't recall seeing him go as fast (I might be wrong). That's still irrelevant though, since he retains his reaction time, which is more than fast enough to blast Flash into oblivion, send him into a black hole, remove the air from around him, shrink him to the size of an ant, etc. etc. before Flash can even come close.
What makes you think this? Flash is fast enough to act on Super Prime, how is Silver Surfer somehow cosmically better than him?
Also, as if Flash needs air to live (He's literally ran into nothingness), or is if a Black Hole would beat him. Silver Surfer, in all iterations, is always shown as having to do some gesture or action to make things happen. It's not like he's infallibly omnipotent and everything he ever wants happens at will with no thought or delay. I think you're really overblowing the Silver Surfer.
Absolutely nothing indicates that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer when it comes to reaction time. Even without his board, the Surfer would therefore quite easily defeat Flash with the power cosmic. Again, the Surfer is more powerful than Flash in every single other department, and has displayed speed feats at least equal to Flash's. See this Silver Surfer respect thread.
In the DC Universe, Flash is the fastest being in existence, excluding the omnipotent (Like Superman Prime etc). Why do you persist in saying Silver Surfer is faster with no frame of reference? Is he legitimately the fastest being in the universe in Marvel?
I've always liked Thor but I dunno much about comics or who has defeated who in the past. Funny because I used to work in a comic shop. Though I hated all the nerdgasm arguments about who can beat who especially when they started providing "proof" for why that's so.
The point you make with the "VS" series is brought up in the very text you want to disaprove by bringing them up....... Thats all i would like to add... Thats why i think you haven't actually read the text...
On September 12 2011 20:55 17Sphynx17 wrote: Sentry i think almost counts as a celestial on the same level with galactus and watcher right? He was allowed to be in attendance of their meeting for the battle with thanos with tribunal present as well as eternity/infinity.
He would surely beat surfer as he is immune to the power cosmic. That at least i would agree, i just dont know where or howto place him though. He is human but is he still mortal? I dont know much about his lore beyond that which ive stated.
I believe you are thinking of Quasar, the latter attended the meeting with the abstract beings regarding Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet only because he was Epoch's champion. Most people believe the Silver Surfer would clearly defeat Sentry, since Sentry has never achieved anything on panel that would put him on SS's level. He got stalemated (well, he technically got beat) by World War Hulk and the Terrax he defeated was only a pale copy of the Terrax of the 1980s and 1990s. Since when is he immune to the power cosmic?
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
The surfer has been shown to be able to fly without his board in the past, but I don't recall seeing him go as fast (I might be wrong). That's still irrelevant though, since he retains his reaction time, which is more than fast enough to blast Flash into oblivion, send him into a black hole, remove the air from around him, shrink him to the size of an ant, etc. etc. before Flash can even come close.
What makes you think this? Flash is fast enough to act on Super Prime, how is Silver Surfer somehow cosmically better than him?
Also, as if Flash needs air to live (He's literally ran into nothingness), or is if a Black Hole would beat him. Silver Surfer, in all iterations, is always shown as having to do some gesture or action to make things happen. It's not like he's infallibly omnipotent and everything he ever wants happens at will with no thought or delay. I think you're really overblowing the Silver Surfer.
Absolutely nothing indicates that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer when it comes to reaction time. Even without his board, the Surfer would therefore quite easily defeat Flash with the power cosmic. Again, the Surfer is more powerful than Flash in every single other department, and has displayed speed feats at least equal to Flash's. See this Silver Surfer respect thread.
You are right. I stand corrected. It was Quasar not Sentry. =)
I liked the Surfer respect thread, never knew all of those things that were stated happened and that he could do all of it, with or without the board. =)
The feats are almost ground for him to be omnipotent but he just shows that "Weakness" from time to time only to rise up from it and prevail.
Now I don't know anymore what would happened between him and the flash as both are capable theoretically of time travel (to the point before both existed/born), although surfer could create a double or more while Flash wouldn't be able to so hmmm... hehe!
On September 12 2011 20:55 17Sphynx17 wrote: Sentry i think almost counts as a celestial on the same level with galactus and watcher right? He was allowed to be in attendance of their meeting for the battle with thanos with tribunal present as well as eternity/infinity.
He would surely beat surfer as he is immune to the power cosmic. That at least i would agree, i just dont know where or howto place him though. He is human but is he still mortal? I dont know much about his lore beyond that which ive stated.
I believe you are thinking of Quasar, the latter attended the meeting with the abstract beings regarding Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet only because he was Epoch's champion. Most people believe the Silver Surfer would clearly defeat Sentry, since Sentry has never achieved anything on panel that would put him on SS's level. He got stalemated (well, he technically got beat) by World War Hulk and the Terrax he defeated was only a pale copy of the Terrax of the 1980s and 1990s. Since when is he immune to the power cosmic?
On September 12 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On September 12 2011 20:52 kwizach wrote:
On September 12 2011 20:43 17Sphynx17 wrote:
On September 12 2011 19:15 kwizach wrote:
On September 12 2011 18:16 17Sphynx17 wrote:
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
The surfer has been shown to be able to fly without his board in the past, but I don't recall seeing him go as fast (I might be wrong). That's still irrelevant though, since he retains his reaction time, which is more than fast enough to blast Flash into oblivion, send him into a black hole, remove the air from around him, shrink him to the size of an ant, etc. etc. before Flash can even come close.
What makes you think this? Flash is fast enough to act on Super Prime, how is Silver Surfer somehow cosmically better than him?
Also, as if Flash needs air to live (He's literally ran into nothingness), or is if a Black Hole would beat him. Silver Surfer, in all iterations, is always shown as having to do some gesture or action to make things happen. It's not like he's infallibly omnipotent and everything he ever wants happens at will with no thought or delay. I think you're really overblowing the Silver Surfer.
Absolutely nothing indicates that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer when it comes to reaction time. Even without his board, the Surfer would therefore quite easily defeat Flash with the power cosmic. Again, the Surfer is more powerful than Flash in every single other department, and has displayed speed feats at least equal to Flash's. See this Silver Surfer respect thread.
In the DC Universe, Flash is the fastest being in existence, excluding the omnipotent (Like Superman Prime etc). Why do you persist in saying Silver Surfer is faster with no frame of reference? Is he legitimately the fastest being in the universe in Marvel?
I did not say he was faster, I said had Flash had no edge over him. What speed feats can you show that would indicate Flash is faster? The surfer can travel through space at billions of times the speed of light (Scan 1 - Scan 2), and he can travel through time thanks to his speed just like Flash. How the hell could Flash hope to compete against someone who is at least his match in terms of speed and who destroys him in every other department, including strength, durability, standard senses, cosmic awareness, psi abilities, energy blasts, energy and matter manipulation, energy absorption, transmutation, healing, teleportation, creating illusions, etc. etc.?
That's the problem, he isn't a match to Flash's speed. Flash is embodiment of speed -- he can, by merely existing, remove all of Surfer's speed and ability to move. The Speed Force manipulation is varied and ridiculous and it's why I think picking superheroes at this "level" comes down to bias. Both have shown that they can beat practically omnipotent super beings before, but are both limited only by their writers and character flaws. (Flash is a goof, Silver Surfer is really emotional)
It's like how a fully powered up Thor or Sentry are a match for him, or even his better -- or Dr. Strange, who ability to beat anyone is literally just described as "magic,". The tippity top tier of superheroes always have some stupid feature that will make them win in a given situation.
Strongest: It is impossible to decide on a strongest superhero. There are several who control space/time or other fundamental forces of the universe that it makes them a (demi) god in their own right. Also note that in many crossovers, characters get nerfed and buffed by the respective author according to his needs.
On September 12 2011 22:26 TwoToneTerran wrote: That's the problem, he isn't a match to Flash's speed. Flash is embodiment of speed -- he can, by merely existing, remove all of Surfer's speed and ability to move. The Speed Force manipulation is varied and ridiculous and it's why I think picking superheroes at this "level" comes down to bias. Both have shown that they can beat practically omnipotent super beings before, but are both limited only by their writers and character flaws. (Flash is a goof, Silver Surfer is really emotional)
How the hell isn't he a match to Flash's speed? Post some evidence to support your argument instead of spouting the same nonsense post after post. You have yet to post a single scan or piece of evidence/data that would indicate that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer. I have also already explained how even if the Surfer was STATIC, Flash's speed would not save him.
Dc has far fewer superheroes with superman been the most powerfull
Marvel on the other hand has a gazzilion ones.
I beleieve any omnipotent , diety like heroes should be exluded cause their getting ridiculus powerfull like beyonder , galactus , even the likes fo silver serfer plain ridiculus thee guys can destroy a universe
So onto the normal heroes World war hulk is easily the strongest one since he single handed beat the whole avenger and xmen ( all together ) even sentry
In the "ancient " era again hulk and thor should have been the strongest
On September 12 2011 22:26 TwoToneTerran wrote: That's the problem, he isn't a match to Flash's speed. Flash is embodiment of speed -- he can, by merely existing, remove all of Surfer's speed and ability to move. The Speed Force manipulation is varied and ridiculous and it's why I think picking superheroes at this "level" comes down to bias. Both have shown that they can beat practically omnipotent super beings before, but are both limited only by their writers and character flaws. (Flash is a goof, Silver Surfer is really emotional)
How the hell isn't he a match to Flash's speed? Post some evidence to support your argument instead of spouting the same nonsense post after post. You have yet to post a single scan or piece of evidence/data that would indicate that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer. I have also already explained how even if the Surfer was STATIC, Flash's speed would not save him.
You're completely missing my point. When fighting Flash, you have no speed. That's just one of Flash's inherent abilities. Unless Silver Surfer is completely immune to the speed force, he has no ability to move or act. Just like how, unless Flash is completely immune to the power cosmic, Surfer can turn him into a nematoad. Phenomenal, unreasonable powers are just that -- unreasonable.
I don't have a fucking resource of scanned photos because I don't scum forums that post all that stuff illegally online, but manipulation of all things speed is something you can look up on Wiki. If Surfer is susceptible to it, he becomes a useless statue to Flash.
On September 12 2011 22:26 TwoToneTerran wrote: That's the problem, he isn't a match to Flash's speed. Flash is embodiment of speed -- he can, by merely existing, remove all of Surfer's speed and ability to move. The Speed Force manipulation is varied and ridiculous and it's why I think picking superheroes at this "level" comes down to bias. Both have shown that they can beat practically omnipotent super beings before, but are both limited only by their writers and character flaws. (Flash is a goof, Silver Surfer is really emotional)
How the hell isn't he a match to Flash's speed? Post some evidence to support your argument instead of spouting the same nonsense post after post. You have yet to post a single scan or piece of evidence/data that would indicate that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer. I have also already explained how even if the Surfer was STATIC, Flash's speed would not save him.
You're completely missing my point. When fighting Flash, you have no speed. That's just one of Flash's inherent abilities. Unless Silver Surfer is completely immune to the speed force, he has no ability to move or act. Just like how, unless Flash is completely immune to the power cosmic, Surfer can turn him into a nematoad. Phenomenal, unreasonable powers are just that -- unreasonable.
I don't have a fucking resource of scanned photos, but manipulation of all things speed is something you can look up on Wiki. If Surfer is susceptible to it, he becomes a useless statue to Flash.
You are the one claiming that Flash would be able to completely immobilize the Surfer. POST SOME EVIDENCE. Why should I be the one looking on wiki for the evidence supporting your claim?
Probably Dr. Manhattan. He's as close to omnipotent as it gets and still qualifies as a super-hero imho. Although as someone said before, it all comes down to bias and the writers decision.
On September 12 2011 22:26 TwoToneTerran wrote: That's the problem, he isn't a match to Flash's speed. Flash is embodiment of speed -- he can, by merely existing, remove all of Surfer's speed and ability to move. The Speed Force manipulation is varied and ridiculous and it's why I think picking superheroes at this "level" comes down to bias. Both have shown that they can beat practically omnipotent super beings before, but are both limited only by their writers and character flaws. (Flash is a goof, Silver Surfer is really emotional)
How the hell isn't he a match to Flash's speed? Post some evidence to support your argument instead of spouting the same nonsense post after post. You have yet to post a single scan or piece of evidence/data that would indicate that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer. I have also already explained how even if the Surfer was STATIC, Flash's speed would not save him.
You're completely missing my point. When fighting Flash, you have no speed. That's just one of Flash's inherent abilities. Unless Silver Surfer is completely immune to the speed force, he has no ability to move or act. Just like how, unless Flash is completely immune to the power cosmic, Surfer can turn him into a nematoad. Phenomenal, unreasonable powers are just that -- unreasonable.
I don't have a fucking resource of scanned photos, but manipulation of all things speed is something you can look up on Wiki. If Surfer is susceptible to it, he becomes a useless statue to Flash.
You are the one claiming that Flash would be able to completely immobilize the Surfer. POST SOME EVIDENCE. Why should I be the one looking on wiki for the evidence supporting your claim?
Speed lend/steal - Perhaps his most versatile new power. Because the Speed Force governed all motion, Wally could rob objects of their kinetic energy, motion, or momentum (e.g., bullets in flight or turning a supervillain into a statue) and use the energy to accelerate himself even faster. He could similarly lend speed to inanimate objects or allies, enabling them to temporarily travel nearly as fast as himself. Bart Allen's future self is shown to also have this ability in the Teen Titans Titans Tomorrow story arc.
The frame of reference for this is, in one story, The Flash (the non-superpowered embodiment of the speed force one) completely froze every superhero in the entirety of the earth in one comic and robbed them of all action of any kind. This included thought, powers, anything. And this is every hero, even the resistant invincible ones like superman, and the magic using ones. It's just one of his many dumb, speed force based powers that essentially making him limitlessly powerful (like how the speed force is motion and motion is energy and energy is matter so now flash has matter manipulation and that's how he makes his costume and magical suits of armor and explodes a guy's brain because it's governed by motion).
There's no limit to either of these guy's powers, and it's why I think it's a wash when you're trying to say who wins. Does The Silver Surfer do things at all? Well he's in the realm of the speed force's governance! Is the Flash existent? Well he too can be ruined by the power cosmic. Vague, overpowered nonsense, it's how they beat godlike beings.
On September 12 2011 22:26 TwoToneTerran wrote: That's the problem, he isn't a match to Flash's speed. Flash is embodiment of speed -- he can, by merely existing, remove all of Surfer's speed and ability to move. The Speed Force manipulation is varied and ridiculous and it's why I think picking superheroes at this "level" comes down to bias. Both have shown that they can beat practically omnipotent super beings before, but are both limited only by their writers and character flaws. (Flash is a goof, Silver Surfer is really emotional)
How the hell isn't he a match to Flash's speed? Post some evidence to support your argument instead of spouting the same nonsense post after post. You have yet to post a single scan or piece of evidence/data that would indicate that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer. I have also already explained how even if the Surfer was STATIC, Flash's speed would not save him.
You're completely missing my point. When fighting Flash, you have no speed. That's just one of Flash's inherent abilities. Unless Silver Surfer is completely immune to the speed force, he has no ability to move or act. Just like how, unless Flash is completely immune to the power cosmic, Surfer can turn him into a nematoad. Phenomenal, unreasonable powers are just that -- unreasonable.
I don't have a fucking resource of scanned photos, but manipulation of all things speed is something you can look up on Wiki. If Surfer is susceptible to it, he becomes a useless statue to Flash.
You are the one claiming that Flash would be able to completely immobilize the Surfer. POST SOME EVIDENCE. Why should I be the one looking on wiki for the evidence supporting your claim?
It would've been faster to type 3 words into google than making that post. Flash can immobilize SS.
I don't think so, no. Be my guest and prove me wrong, I'm waiting.
On September 12 2011 22:26 TwoToneTerran wrote: That's the problem, he isn't a match to Flash's speed. Flash is embodiment of speed -- he can, by merely existing, remove all of Surfer's speed and ability to move. The Speed Force manipulation is varied and ridiculous and it's why I think picking superheroes at this "level" comes down to bias. Both have shown that they can beat practically omnipotent super beings before, but are both limited only by their writers and character flaws. (Flash is a goof, Silver Surfer is really emotional)
How the hell isn't he a match to Flash's speed? Post some evidence to support your argument instead of spouting the same nonsense post after post. You have yet to post a single scan or piece of evidence/data that would indicate that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer. I have also already explained how even if the Surfer was STATIC, Flash's speed would not save him.
You're completely missing my point. When fighting Flash, you have no speed. That's just one of Flash's inherent abilities. Unless Silver Surfer is completely immune to the speed force, he has no ability to move or act. Just like how, unless Flash is completely immune to the power cosmic, Surfer can turn him into a nematoad. Phenomenal, unreasonable powers are just that -- unreasonable.
I don't have a fucking resource of scanned photos, but manipulation of all things speed is something you can look up on Wiki. If Surfer is susceptible to it, he becomes a useless statue to Flash.
You are the one claiming that Flash would be able to completely immobilize the Surfer. POST SOME EVIDENCE. Why should I be the one looking on wiki for the evidence supporting your claim?
Speed lend/steal - Perhaps his most versatile new power. Because the Speed Force governed all motion, Wally could rob objects of their kinetic energy, motion, or momentum (e.g., bullets in flight or turning a supervillain into a statue) and use the energy to accelerate himself even faster. He could similarly lend speed to inanimate objects or allies, enabling them to temporarily travel nearly as fast as himself. Bart Allen's future self is shown to also have this ability in the Teen Titans Titans Tomorrow story arc.
The frame of reference for this is, in one story, The Flash (the non-superpowered embodiment of the speed force one) completely froze every superhero in the entirety of the earth in one comic and robbed them of all action of any kind. This included thought, powers, anything. And this is every hero, even the resistant invincible ones like superman, and the magic using ones. It's just one of his many dumb, speed force based powers that essentially making him limitlessly powerful (like how the speed force is motion and motion is energy and energy is matter so now flash has matter manipulation and that's how he makes his costume and magical suits of armor and explodes a guy's brain because it's governed by motion).
There's no limit to either of these guy's powers, and it's why I think it's a wash when you're trying to say who wins. Does The Silver Surfer do things at all? Well he's in the realm of the speed force's governance! Is the Flash existent? Well he too can be ruined by the power cosmic. Vague, overpowered nonsense, it's how they beat godlike beings.
I don't see how this power would be effective in any way against a wielder of the power cosmic like the Silver Surfer. The power cosmic is a greater force than the speed force, and the Surfer's mastery of energy would prevent him from getting robbed of his kinetic energy. He is in fact also able to absorb energy. This particular power of Flash would therefore not affect the Surfer, while Flash would very much so be affected by everything the Surfer could target him with.
Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
SupermanPrime's weakness is that he isn't "the presence" which means he's not the author of comic books. Which means he has no weakness. Name a power, any power, too late, superman prime already has it. And his power is better than yours. He's also omnipresent and is a time traveler. So he's also in your past and your future at the same time. Goku fights him as a dragon god? Baby goku just died--no more goku. The flash wants speed force supermanprime? Too late, supermanprime already has the speedforce too.
Is supermanprime a godlike being? No, he's Clark Kent finally realizing that it sucked to be human and to just stop holding himself back.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Kind of hard to judge who the strongest would be since there are so many that have god-like powers, but as for superheroes that ARENT god, I think Rogue of the X-men (after taking Mrs Marvels powers) has a pretty fair chance against all other super heroes/villians
My Fav has to Tony Stark/ Ironman Billionaire playboy who has a drink problem and the fact that his armour was to keep him alive orginaly. his orginal weakness was the amount of energy his chest piece had in it with it having to be charged, Which also lead to him having to wear the whole mark 3 "Classic" for a while down to the heart not being able to cope with out the extra power from it..
but the Strongest has to be Son Goku, the man has a child like innoccence, he happend to be the worlds strongest man in his universe. but he also keeps working to improve himself, that and the fact he is a very skilled fighter
On September 12 2011 23:34 zeru wrote: Is there anyone stronger than Galactus though? Because I'm trying to come up with someone, but no success.
edit; i guess Eternity / Infinity
Galactus at full strength is essentially one of the forces that holds the universe together. He's as much a part of existence as gravity and physics. There are a great many things that are more powerful than galactus--but then we'd be in supermanprime/molecule man territory.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
On September 12 2011 23:21 lorkac wrote: SupermanPrime's weakness is that he isn't "the presence" which means he's not the author of comic books. Which means he has no weakness. Name a power, any power, too late, superman prime already has it. And his power is better than yours. He's also omnipresent and is a time traveler. So he's also in your past and your future at the same time. Goku fights him as a dragon god? Baby goku just died--no more goku. The flash wants speed force supermanprime? Too late, supermanprime already has the speedforce too.
Is supermanprime a godlike being? No, he's Clark Kent finally realizing that it sucked to be human and to just stop holding himself back.
THANK YOU! someone who gets it.. the strongest "superhero" has to be superman prime.. and stop saying anyone can get krytonite, cuz hes immune to those silly imba-crystals.
Someone way early on said it well. Who the hell cares? You can just keep adding zeros, as Goku's writers obviously did. Squirrel girl was meant to be a funny poke at that fact.
Superman prime is goddamn retarded, as if superman wasn't retarded enough. This seems to be a contest of which publisher/tv writer was high enough to think more powerful = better. Take Superman prime. Think a 13 year old couldn't write someone more powerful, just by adding some zeros here and there?
Why is Lucifer a good comic book and God, the comic book, would be terrible? Because God (Infinite, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient) is the logical conclusion of all these terrible writers trying to one up each other. And God is an awful protagonist because his powers are unlimited, unlike mythological deities like Thor and Ares, who still had limits to their power.
The whole 1 million thing was pretty stupid anyhow ...like the writers could comprehend how a being who was human-ish would function or think after being alive for about ten thousand times longer than anyone has ever lived.
Not really towards the top. There is no reason whatsoever to put the Silver Surfer below Superman.
"The only thing that keeps him out of the top spot on this list is how wildly inconsistent he has been written. In one comic we see him defeating a couple of primordial elder gods who are each supposed to be a match for Galactus himself, and in another he is getting KO’ed by the Thing."
Not really towards the top. There is no reason whatsoever to put the Silver Surfer below Superman.
"The only thing that keeps him out of the top spot on this list is how wildly inconsistent he has been written. In one comic we see him defeating a couple of primordial elder gods who are each supposed to be a match for Galactus himself, and in another he is getting KO’ed by the Thing."
Oh gee, it's like Superman hasn't jobbed to low tier characters before.
Thanos has been hurt by goddamn bone claw Wolverine, does that mean Thanos is inconsistent?
Not really towards the top. There is no reason whatsoever to put the Silver Surfer below Superman.
"The only thing that keeps him out of the top spot on this list is how wildly inconsistent he has been written. In one comic we see him defeating a couple of primordial elder gods who are each supposed to be a match for Galactus himself, and in another he is getting KO’ed by the Thing."
Like Garo pointed out, the same thing applies to Superman. Superman also (sometimes) has a very obvious weakness, kryptonite, and the Surfer doesn't. What's more, in his current state the Surfer is way more powerful than he's ever been since Galactus recently upgraded him (at the end of the Annihilation arc).
On September 12 2011 20:55 17Sphynx17 wrote: Sentry i think almost counts as a celestial on the same level with galactus and watcher right? He was allowed to be in attendance of their meeting for the battle with thanos with tribunal present as well as eternity/infinity.
He would surely beat surfer as he is immune to the power cosmic. That at least i would agree, i just dont know where or howto place him though. He is human but is he still mortal? I dont know much about his lore beyond that which ive stated.
I believe you are thinking of Quasar, the latter attended the meeting with the abstract beings regarding Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet only because he was Epoch's champion. Most people believe the Silver Surfer would clearly defeat Sentry, since Sentry has never achieved anything on panel that would put him on SS's level. He got stalemated (well, he technically got beat) by World War Hulk and the Terrax he defeated was only a pale copy of the Terrax of the 1980s and 1990s. Since when is he immune to the power cosmic?
On September 12 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On September 12 2011 20:52 kwizach wrote:
On September 12 2011 20:43 17Sphynx17 wrote:
On September 12 2011 19:15 kwizach wrote:
On September 12 2011 18:16 17Sphynx17 wrote:
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
The surfer has been shown to be able to fly without his board in the past, but I don't recall seeing him go as fast (I might be wrong). That's still irrelevant though, since he retains his reaction time, which is more than fast enough to blast Flash into oblivion, send him into a black hole, remove the air from around him, shrink him to the size of an ant, etc. etc. before Flash can even come close.
What makes you think this? Flash is fast enough to act on Super Prime, how is Silver Surfer somehow cosmically better than him?
Also, as if Flash needs air to live (He's literally ran into nothingness), or is if a Black Hole would beat him. Silver Surfer, in all iterations, is always shown as having to do some gesture or action to make things happen. It's not like he's infallibly omnipotent and everything he ever wants happens at will with no thought or delay. I think you're really overblowing the Silver Surfer.
Absolutely nothing indicates that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer when it comes to reaction time. Even without his board, the Surfer would therefore quite easily defeat Flash with the power cosmic. Again, the Surfer is more powerful than Flash in every single other department, and has displayed speed feats at least equal to Flash's. See this Silver Surfer respect thread.
In the DC Universe, Flash is the fastest being in existence, excluding the omnipotent (Like Superman Prime etc). Why do you persist in saying Silver Surfer is faster with no frame of reference? Is he legitimately the fastest being in the universe in Marvel?
I did not say he was faster, I said had Flash had no edge over him. What speed feats can you show that would indicate Flash is faster? The surfer can travel through space at billions of times the speed of light (Scan 1 - Scan 2), and he can travel through time thanks to his speed just like Flash. How the hell could Flash hope to compete against someone who is at least his match in terms of speed and who destroys him in every other department, including strength, durability, standard senses, cosmic awareness, psi abilities, energy blasts, energy and matter manipulation, energy absorption, transmutation, healing, teleportation, creating illusions, etc. etc.?
Silver Surfer has Power Cosmic, Flash does not. GG.
On September 12 2011 23:34 zeru wrote: Is there anyone stronger than Galactus though? Because I'm trying to come up with someone, but no success.
edit; i guess Eternity / Infinity
Galactus at full strength is essentially one of the forces that holds the universe together. He's as much a part of existence as gravity and physics. There are a great many things that are more powerful than galactus--but then we'd be in supermanprime/molecule man territory.
Full Powered Galactus is eternity's equal. The only things stronger are Thanos with the IG then Living Tribunal then TOAA.
2)Molecule Man can change matter on the atomic level, including detroying "invincible" objects like Thors Hammer... and he can create anything from nothing and nothing from anything. Kinda OP if you ask me. Guy thwarting your plans? Bam! Lungs full of concrete instead of air. Evil genius robbing a bank? Bam! Bank is instantly a maximum security prison with bars made of adamantium.
On September 13 2011 05:21 MangoTango wrote: How does nobody pick Dr. Mahattan? He is by definition omnipotent in all timeframes. If only he could get off his ass and motivate himself to care...
A ton of people picked Dr. Manhattan, and he's actually WAY overrated and nowhere near omnipotent.
On September 13 2011 05:10 Rob28 wrote: 1) Deadpool Yo
2)Molecule Man can change matter on the atomic level, including detroying "invincible" objects like Thors Hammer... and he can create anything from nothing and nothing from anything. Kinda OP if you ask me. Guy thwarting your plans? Bam! Lungs full of concrete instead of air. Evil genius robbing a bank? Bam! Bank is instantly a maximum security prison with bars made of adamantium.
It's actually worse if you're talking about molecule man.
Guy thwarting your plans? Bam, he doesn't exist.
You have plans of any type? Bam, your plan exists.
On September 13 2011 05:21 MangoTango wrote: How does nobody pick Dr. Mahattan? He is by definition omnipotent in all timeframes. If only he could get off his ass and motivate himself to care...
Because omnipotent in all time frames is actually low balling it when It comes to "overpowered" superheroes/beings. Heck, Flash has that and more.
On September 13 2011 05:10 Rob28 wrote: 1) Deadpool Yo
2)Molecule Man can change matter on the atomic level, including detroying "invincible" objects like Thors Hammer... and he can create anything from nothing and nothing from anything. Kinda OP if you ask me. Guy thwarting your plans? Bam! Lungs full of concrete instead of air. Evil genius robbing a bank? Bam! Bank is instantly a maximum security prison with bars made of adamantium.
It's actually worse if you're talking about molecule man.
Guy thwarting your plans? Bam, he doesn't exist.
You have plans of any type? Bam, your plan exists.
Do want anything whatsoever? Bam, you have it.
Are you feeling sad? Bam, you're no longer sad.
Molecule man is OP.
Let's not get carried away though, the original Molecule Man which appears in Secret Wars got retconned.
On September 13 2011 05:35 t3tsubo wrote: How is it even a debate, superman prime in the dc universe and thanos with heart of the universe in Marvel universe. By definition.
Yeah, it's really hard to debate half of these things when trying to cross over comic book universes. Half of these characters weren't designed to actually interact with others in the first place >.<
Superman Prime is the second the most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpasses by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes.
Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality.
~http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Prime
It seems like he was defined to be perfect. Perfect. No one else's abilities are going to work on him. ::shrugs:: Sucks for everyone else. QQ.
To have a realistic dialogue on this thread we need three rules.
A.) No omnipotent beings. This includes "all powerful" and "Embodies the _____" because let's face it, if things are Gods/Godlike, there's no point arguing which God hurts the other God more. This also includes invulnerable beings which can't die. There's no reason to wonder if ____ can beat ____ if one of them has no threat of dying. Heck, Wolverine will beat any non-jean grey character in the X-Men roster if he simply waits long enough that old age beats them. See what I mean? You can't fight what can't be fought, you can't beat what can't be beat and you can't threaten that who can't be threatened. If you can't be killed, you don't count.
B.) No reality changers. We can't have "I win buttons" even if the button is mortal. I don't care that Nathan Grey is killable, but someone with the power to simply make you stop existing can't really be beaten. And you when you stop his power of "stop you from existing" then they really don't have a power at all. So yeah, no "reality changers."
C.) No time travelers. People who can go back to the past and kill you before you're born, people who can stop time and stab you in the eye, people who can go to the future and kill you when you're an old man, etc... Those people can go suck a hooker's zucchini.
We need to only count people who can die, people who can only fight "in the present" and people who actually have to "fight." When they fight, there needs to a realistic way they can be threatened, they need to be beatable, obviously beatable and the fight should be on "even" ground.
How about we hold a fictional tournament, this being a Starcraft site and all... Rules 1) Characters may use any power at their disposal, but only if they have used said power at least once before (source required). For example, the Flash may dodge an attack by running two seconds into the future (because he did that vs.the Black Lantern rings in Blackest Night), but he can't throw somebody's mommy down the stairs (because that's something reserved for evil-doers like the Reverse-Flash in the comics). 2) Each character gets a week of preparation time as they need before the fight. They can bring any equipment they need, but no allies, and only if they have regular access to said equipment and have used said equipment at least once before (source required). For example, Batman may bring synthezised Kryptonite, just in case, but he can't bring Green Arrow as backup (both as in the Dark Knight Returns saga), but he probably won't have access to Gamma-powered pacifiers to turn the Hulk into Banner. 3) The fight starts in a random city square with both fighters being aware of the presence of each other, although no line-of-sight needs to be established, should one or both of the contenstants choose start in hiding. 4) A fighters lose a fight if they are a) dead, b) nonexistant, or c) incapacitated, unless they can overcome said condition within a few minutes. 5) Once a fighter wins, he or she moves on to the next round.
The rooster might look like this (note that Superman Prime can't participate due to rule no. 1):
Ro16 (A) Doctor Manhattan vs. Goku (B) The Batman vs. Hulk (C) Flash vs. Mighty Thor (D) Superman vs. Silver Surfer (E) Sentry vs. Doctor Strange (F) Wonder Woman vs. Jean Grey (G) Green Lantern vs. Spawn (H) Captain Marvel vs. Lobo
Ro8 (I) winner A vs. winner B (J) winner C vs. winner D (K) winner E vs. winner F (L) winner G vs. winner H
Semifinals (M) winner I vs. winner J (N) winner K vs. winner L Finals (O) winner M vs. winner N
On September 13 2011 09:57 Poffel wrote: How about we hold a fictional tournament, this being a Starcraft site and all... Rules 1) Characters may use any power at their disposal, but only if they have used said power at least once before (source required). For example, the Flash may dodge an attack by running two seconds into the future (because he did that vs.the Black Lantern rings in Blackest Night), but he can't throw somebody's mommy down the stairs (because that's something reserved for evil-doers like the Reverse-Flash in the comics). 2) Each character gets a week of preparation time as they need before the fight. They can bring any equipment they need, but no allies, and only if they have regular access to said equipment and have used said equipment at least once before (source required). For example, Batman may bring synthezised Kryptonite, just in case, but he can't bring Green Arrow as backup (both as in the Dark Knight Returns saga), but he probably won't have access to Gamma-powered pacifiers to turn the Hulk into Banner. 3) The fight starts in a random city square with both fighters being aware of the presence of each other, although no line-of-sight needs to be established, should one or both of the contenstants choose start in hiding. 4) A fighters lose a fight if they are a) dead, b) nonexistant, or c) incapacitated, unless they can overcome said condition within a few minutes. 5) Once a fighter wins, he or she moves on to the next round.
The rooster might look like this (note that Superman Prime can't participate due to rule no. 1):
Ro16 (A) Doctor Manhattan vs. Goku (B) The Batman vs. Hulk (C) Flash vs. Mighty Thor (D) Superman vs. Silver Surfer (E) Sentry vs. Doctor Strange (F) Wonder Woman vs. Jean Grey (G) Green Lantern vs. Spawn (H) Captain Marvel vs. Lobo
Ro8 (I) winner A vs. winner B (J) winner C vs. winner D (K) winner E vs. winner F (L) winner G vs. winner H
Semifinals (M) winner I vs. winner J (N) winner K vs. winner L Finals (O) winner M vs. winner N
With this list, I'm pretty sure Jean Grey is going to run away with this, pending on Flash+Silver Surfer.
Hulk Thor Superman (barely) Jean Grey (LOL WW seriously?)
On September 13 2011 09:57 Poffel wrote: How about we hold a fictional tournament, this being a Starcraft site and all... Rules 1) Characters may use any power at their disposal, but only if they have used said power at least once before (source required). For example, the Flash may dodge an attack by running two seconds into the future (because he did that vs.the Black Lantern rings in Blackest Night), but he can't throw somebody's mommy down the stairs (because that's something reserved for evil-doers like the Reverse-Flash in the comics). 2) Each character gets a week of preparation time as they need before the fight. They can bring any equipment they need, but no allies, and only if they have regular access to said equipment and have used said equipment at least once before (source required). For example, Batman may bring synthezised Kryptonite, just in case, but he can't bring Green Arrow as backup (both as in the Dark Knight Returns saga), but he probably won't have access to Gamma-powered pacifiers to turn the Hulk into Banner. 3) The fight starts in a random city square with both fighters being aware of the presence of each other, although no line-of-sight needs to be established, should one or both of the contenstants choose start in hiding. 4) A fighters lose a fight if they are a) dead, b) nonexistant, or c) incapacitated, unless they can overcome said condition within a few minutes. 5) Once a fighter wins, he or she moves on to the next round.
The rooster might look like this (note that Superman Prime can't participate due to rule no. 1):
Ro16 (A) Doctor Manhattan vs. Goku (B) The Batman vs. Hulk (C) Flash vs. Mighty Thor (D) Superman vs. Silver Surfer (E) Sentry vs. Doctor Strange (F) Wonder Woman vs. Jean Grey (G) Green Lantern vs. Spawn (H) Captain Marvel vs. Lobo
Ro8 (I) winner A vs. winner B (J) winner C vs. winner D (K) winner E vs. winner F (L) winner G vs. winner H
Semifinals (M) winner I vs. winner J (N) winner K vs. winner L Finals (O) winner M vs. winner N
With this list, I'm pretty sure Jean Grey is going to run away with this, pending on Flash+Silver Surfer.
Hulk Thor Superman (barely) Jean Grey (LOL WW seriously?)
All I'm gonna vote for.
Jean Grey better make it to the finals.
My opinion of first round:
(A) Doctor Manhattan > Goku (B) The Batman < Hulk (C) Flash > Mighty Thor (D) Superman < Silver Surfer (regular Superman, not Prime) (E) Sentry > Doctor Strange (F) Wonder Woman < Jean Grey (G) Green Lantern > Spawn (H) Captain Marvel > Lobo
EDIT: Flash vs. SS in next round? The original controversy was these were top two...
My favourite superhero is probably Dudley, I mean he doesnt really have any true powers but he can do things no regular human can do like uppercut someone 30+ feet into the air, Or generate small tornadoes around his fists. Plus if you think he is not the best "you have no dignity" or you are "gutter trash"
In the above contest i dont see anyone really taking out jean grey/pheonix. maybe surfer or manhatten but IDK heres my first round picks
Doctor Manhattan beats Goku The Batman loses to Hulk Flash = Mighty Thor (cant decide who would win) Superman loses to Silver Surfer Sentry beats Doctor Strange Wonder Woman loses to Jean Grey Green Lantern beats Spawn Captain Marvel beats Lobo
(A) Doctor Manhattan > Goku Manhattan is immortal to damage and has reality manipulating powers.
(B) The Batman > Hulk The hulk is certainly more powerful in every aspect except for monetary assets, intelligence and strategy. But batman will cunningly spend his preparation week making cookies, and thus capable of making hulk harmless and unangry.
(C) Flash < Mighty Thor If thor has the odinsword which can defeat nearly omnipotent celestials, then he should be able to defeat flash too.
(D) Superman < Silver Surfer Space-time altering powers will always beat non-space-time altering powers. No contest.
(E) Sentry = Doctor Strange They both are said to have cosmic entity level reality altering powers (if its Robert Reynolds sentry)
(F) Wonder Woman < Jean Grey Space-time altering powers will always beat non-space-time altering powers. No contest.
(G) Green Lantern < Spawn DC has always been more restrictive with their powers.
On September 13 2011 10:45 VoirDire wrote: (A) Doctor Manhattan > Goku Manhattan is immortal to damage and has reality manipulating powers.
(B) The Batman > Hulk The hulk is certainly more powerful in every aspect except for monetary assets, intelligence and strategy. But batman will cunningly spend his preparation week making cookies, and thus capable of making hulk harmless and unangry.
(C) Flash < Mighty Thor If thor has the odinsword which can defeat nearly omnipotent celestials, then he should be able to defeat flash too.
(D) Superman < Silver Surfer Space-time altering powers will always beat non-space-time altering powers. No contest.
(E) Sentry = Doctor Strange They both are said to have cosmic entity level reality altering powers (if its Robert Reynolds sentry)
(F) Wonder Woman < Jean Grey Space-time altering powers will always beat non-space-time altering powers. No contest.
(G) Green Lantern < Spawn DC has always been more restrictive with their powers.
(H) Captain Marvel > Lobo
Hmm..
(a) Doctor Manhattan > Goku (based on the grounds stated I Agree with this that he is in fact stronger).
However, wouldn't doctor manhattan think of whether or not to participate (given his character and all) and I would think he would chose not to participate as it bears no fruit to any cause. Plus he is technically going to be up against Goku who is innately pure of heart and means only to find out who is stronger but not destroy or kill. I'd say Dr. Manhattan would choose to leave the fight and Goku wins just because Manhattan forfeits the "competition) GOKU winner by DEFAULT.
(b) Batman < Hulk Hulk would win in the sense that he is no longer just a raging monstrosity. He develops consciousness, unless of course extremely enraged. Batman however has really no means of "hurting" Hulk and Hulk won't be a pushover like Bane. So I say, HULK will WIN.
(c) Flash > Thor I know we've established the grounds of Flash not technically time travelling to kill the Baby thor and what not, but then Flash just brings Thor into the end of time or "nothingness" and Thor would have no way out as he would technically be shifting in between dimensions/parallels of nothingness still. (maybe he'd cause the big bang that way that started the universe) FLASH would WIN for me.
(d) Superman < Silver Surfer Established by quoted poster. =)
(e) ABSTAIN (Not enough idea about both heroes to give a convincing arguement.)
(f) Wonder Woman < Jean Grey I think with or without Phoenix, JEAN GREY already trumps her with Psychic powers. =)
(g) Green Latern < Spawn Spawn has the powers of the underworld and can unleash Hell on Earth so to speak. Green Lantern while strong is limited by their Will. Therefore Lantern's will has a breaking point and SPAWN will trump him.
(h) ABSTAIN (not sure although I vote for Marvel =)! )
(A) Doctor Manhattan < Goku Dr Manhattan wouldn't fight Goku. If Goku pushes it and doesn't accept Dr. Manhattan's no show, then Goku will be splattered (at will) all over the dirt. But Goku is not bloodthirsty, he'll accept surrender.
(B) The Batman > Hulk Bruce Banner will do everything he can to not show up as to ensure the minimum amount of lives lost. If he knows a week in advance where the fight will be, he'll high tail it out of there. Batman will buy him the plane ticket and accept his walkover victory.
(C) Flash < Mighty Thor Thor is immortal. Any specific persona of Flash is not. Thor is invulnerable. Flash is not. After a long enough time span, Flash (even with time travel powers) will eventually grow old and die and a new guy will take his place. Thor wins through patience.
(D) Superman < Silver Surfer Power Cosmic. There is now a red sun engulfing the planet. Power Cosmic--Silver Surfer knows Kryptonite hurts superman. The planet is now covered in Kryptonite even if Silver Surfer has to spend a week travelling faster than the speed of light to do it.
(E) Sentry < Doctor Strange Doctor Strange teleports the Sentry into hell where he know spends eternity battling demons. Doctor Strange wins.
(F) Wonder Woman < Jean Grey Mind controls Wonder Woman to stab herself. If somehow Wonder Woman does kill Jean Grey, she turns into the Phoenix and wipes Wonder Woman out of existence. Jean Grey wins.
(G) Green Lantern < Spawn Rings need to recharge eventually. Not hell. Spawn wins.
(H) Captain Marvel < Lobo
Captain Marvel has magic. Lobo does not. Captain Marvel flies. Lobo does not. However, if Lobo was given a week to kill Captain Marvel, he would kill him at day 6 while Captain Marvel was still living life as Billy because Captain Marvel doesn't cheat and Lobo does. Lobo wins.
Doctor Manhattan vs. Goku He brings all 7 Dragon Balls and wishes for the power to defeat Doctor Manhattan. Since the Dragon Balls grant ANY wish he will get it and then win.
The Batman vs. Hulk The Hulk is basiclly the same as Batman villian Bane. Batman beats Bane up. I do not see Batman losing to Hulk. He could create something to nuetralize Hulks Gamma power
Flash vs. Mighty Thor Thor. Sorry speedy, you don't hit hard enough. It will take a long time but sooner or later Thors gonna smoke you and your done.
Superman vs. Silver Surfer Silver Surfer. Free win. Superman cannt combat beings that can manipulate the cosmos
Sentry vs. Doctor Strange Sentry fought a galaxy consuming being to a stalemate. Doctor strange isn't even a zillionth that strong.
Wonder Woman vs. Jean Grey Doesn't even need the Phoenix Force here. Jean should be able to break Wonder Woman from the inside out.
Green Lantern vs. Spawn This one is tough. The Ring is limited only by your willpower and creativity and Hal Jordan has that in spades. No matter what this would be a fun one to watch
Captain Marvel vs. Lobo These two fighters are exactly the same excpt for one thing. Marvel has the speed advantage so he wins. This would be a fun fight to see.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just for arguments sake, I'm gonna argue:D
The physics of the marvel and DC multiverses are mutually exclusive so lets do two arguments, one for each universe.
Marvel universe: If flash was in the marvel universe, the speed force would be an abstract entity as it is the embodiment of speed. If eternity is the embodiment of space, and infinity the embodiment of time, the speed force would be a composite of both. And thus potentially vastly more powerful, something like the phoenix force when summoned by Jean Grey. Powers from abstract entities trump power cosmic in the marvel universe. Since flash is the embodiment of the speed force, one could argue that it would make the an abstract.
In addition: As the marvel universe apparently isn't governed by the law of special relativity, and flash can travel at the fastest speed possible, he should be able to outspeed the SS measly 2x lightspeed easily. As both flash and SS have cosmic awareness, flash should be able to out maneuver SS and wear him out and take him out with a hit of virtually unlimited kinetic energy gained from momentum.
DC universe: Since galactus doesn't exist in the DC universe, SS borrowed powers wouldn't even work here. Even if it would, he would have a hard time adjusting his powers based on energy absorbtion and manipulation since this universe isn't governed by the same laws of physics. He would not be able to exceed or even go very near light speed with his surf board as he would be effected by relativistic forces of time dilation and length contraction as he got close to c. The speed force explicitly protects Flashs body from relativistic effects as he gets close to c.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just for arguments sake, I'm gonna argue:D
The physics of the marvel and DC multiverses are mutually exclusive so lets do two arguments, one for each universe.
Marvel universe: If flash was in the marvel universe, the speed force would be an abstract entity as it is the embodiment of speed. If eternity is the embodiment of space, and infinity the embodiment of time, the speed force would be a composite of both. And thus potentially vastly more powerful, something like the phoenix force when summoned by Jean Grey. Powers from abstract entities trump power cosmic in the marvel universe. Since flash is the embodiment of the speed force, one could argue that it would make the an abstract.
In addition: As the marvel universe apparently isn't governed by the law of special relativity, and flash can travel at the fastest speed possible, he should be able to outspeed the SS measly 2x lightspeed easily. As both flash and SS have cosmic awareness, flash should be able to out maneuver SS and wear him out and take him out with a hit of virtually unlimited kinetic energy gained from momentum.
DC universe: Since galactus doesn't exist in the DC universe, SS borrowed powers wouldn't even work here. Even if it would, he would have a hard time adjusting his powers based on energy absorbtion and manipulation since this universe isn't governed by the same laws of physics. He would not be able to exceed or even go very near light speed with his surf board as he would be effected by relativistic forces of time dilation and length contraction as he got close to c. The speed force explicitly protects Flashs body from relativistic effects as he gets close to c.
Not to put a damper in your overall argument--but if the speedforce is simply a composite of space and time then it's be definition weaker than the power cosmic which goes beyond space and time. Not saying SS is better--just saying that I don't see how Flash is better if you argue that the Speed Force is the composite of space and time.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just for arguments sake, I'm gonna argue:D
The physics of the marvel and DC multiverses are mutually exclusive so lets do two arguments, one for each universe.
Marvel universe: If flash was in the marvel universe, the speed force would be an abstract entity as it is the embodiment of speed. If eternity is the embodiment of space, and infinity the embodiment of time, the speed force would be a composite of both. And thus potentially vastly more powerful, something like the phoenix force when summoned by Jean Grey. Powers from abstract entities trump power cosmic in the marvel universe. Since flash is the embodiment of the speed force, one could argue that it would make the an abstract.
In addition: As the marvel universe apparently isn't governed by the law of special relativity, and flash can travel at the fastest speed possible, he should be able to outspeed the SS measly 2x lightspeed easily. As both flash and SS have cosmic awareness, flash should be able to out maneuver SS and wear him out and take him out with a hit of virtually unlimited kinetic energy gained from momentum.
DC universe: Since galactus doesn't exist in the DC universe, SS borrowed powers wouldn't even work here. Even if it would, he would have a hard time adjusting his powers based on energy absorbtion and manipulation since this universe isn't governed by the same laws of physics. He would not be able to exceed or even go very near light speed with his surf board as he would be effected by relativistic forces of time dilation and length contraction as he got close to c. The speed force explicitly protects Flashs body from relativistic effects as he gets close to c.
Not to put a damper in your overall argument--but if the speedforce is simply a composite of space and time then it's be definition weaker than the power cosmic which goes beyond space and time. Not saying SS is better--just saying that I don't see how Flash is better if you argue that the Speed Force is the composite of space and time.
I guess for this argument, when we put Flash into the Marvel Universe, he has the equivalent powers of the Speed Gem (the power of Speed, Motion as we can describe it in Marvel Universe context). As such, his power is simply one over the vast majority of cosmic energies or forces of reality that exists within the Marvel plane. Time travel is still related to speed in this case right though? Where he moves so fast he can actually go forward or back depending on how he travels in the timeline.
And going back to the surfer, if he were in the DC universe, energy is still energy which the Surfer can theoretically tap into, be it more difficult to adapt to at first but hey, he'll get the hang of it.
Oh, and I'm not sure if I am correct with this, but when it comes to showcasing Flash's peak/ultimate form (if you can call it that) It is usually presented as a self preserving mechanism right? Like when he went against black flash. His mindset is "Gotta go faster, faster, faster, then boom!" It's like his self preservation mechanism unlocks his potential, which unlike the Surfer, he wills it to occur or not, regardless of whether it's an act of self preservation.
Taking into account how their characters are, yes, Flash nor surfer would not go behind the back of their opponents to kill them while they were still less powerful or mortal.
I'd say it may go down to where the battle takes place? Can the flash fight in space? I don't have proof of it so I can not say for certain. But I think Surfer has the overall advantage, other than with the category of speed. He also has "enlightenment" or cosmic awareness if you could at least call it that so he's no push over in the thinking department. =)
On September 13 2011 14:35 Orcasgt24 wrote: Doctor Manhattan vs. Goku He brings all 7 Dragon Balls and wishes for the power to defeat Doctor Manhattan. Since the Dragon Balls grant ANY wish he will get it and then win.
man you don't understand your dragonball lore yet haha, neither do i fully but i'm pretty sure it grants any wish within the power of the dragon itself. so if the dragon doesn't have the power to defeat or the power to grant it, then it doesn't work
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just for arguments sake, I'm gonna argue:D
The physics of the marvel and DC multiverses are mutually exclusive so lets do two arguments, one for each universe.
Marvel universe: If flash was in the marvel universe, the speed force would be an abstract entity as it is the embodiment of speed. If eternity is the embodiment of space, and infinity the embodiment of time, the speed force would be a composite of both. And thus potentially vastly more powerful, something like the phoenix force when summoned by Jean Grey. Powers from abstract entities trump power cosmic in the marvel universe. Since flash is the embodiment of the speed force, one could argue that it would make the an abstract.
In addition: As the marvel universe apparently isn't governed by the law of special relativity, and flash can travel at the fastest speed possible, he should be able to outspeed the SS measly 2x lightspeed easily. As both flash and SS have cosmic awareness, flash should be able to out maneuver SS and wear him out and take him out with a hit of virtually unlimited kinetic energy gained from momentum.
DC universe: Since galactus doesn't exist in the DC universe, SS borrowed powers wouldn't even work here. Even if it would, he would have a hard time adjusting his powers based on energy absorbtion and manipulation since this universe isn't governed by the same laws of physics. He would not be able to exceed or even go very near light speed with his surf board as he would be effected by relativistic forces of time dilation and length contraction as he got close to c. The speed force explicitly protects Flashs body from relativistic effects as he gets close to c.
Not to put a damper in your overall argument--but if the speedforce is simply a composite of space and time then it's be definition weaker than the power cosmic which goes beyond space and time. Not saying SS is better--just saying that I don't see how Flash is better if you argue that the Speed Force is the composite of space and time.
I guess for this argument, when we put Flash into the Marvel Universe, he has the equivalent powers of the Speed Gem (the power of Speed, Motion as we can describe it in Marvel Universe context). As such, his power is simply one over the vast majority of cosmic energies or forces of reality that exists within the Marvel plane. Time travel is still related to speed in this case right though? Where he moves so fast he can actually go forward or back depending on how he travels in the timeline.
And going back to the surfer, if he were in the DC universe, energy is still energy which the Surfer can theoretically tap into, be it more difficult to adapt to at first but hey, he'll get the hang of it.
Oh, and I'm not sure if I am correct with this, but when it comes to showcasing Flash's peak/ultimate form (if you can call it that) It is usually presented as a self preserving mechanism right? Like when he went against black flash. His mindset is "Gotta go faster, faster, faster, then boom!" It's like his self preservation mechanism unlocks his potential, which unlike the Surfer, he wills it to occur or not, regardless of whether it's an act of self preservation.
Taking into account how their characters are, yes, Flash nor surfer would not go behind the back of their opponents to kill them while they were still less powerful or mortal.
I'd say it may go down to where the battle takes place? Can the flash fight in space? I don't have proof of it so I can not say for certain. But I think Surfer has the overall advantage, other than with the category of speed. He also has "enlightenment" or cosmic awareness if you could at least call it that so he's no push over in the thinking department. =)
Just saying. My 2 cents IMO. =)
Let's be honest. SS would never duel anyone if it got in the way of him moping about feeling guilty for committing planetary genocide on am ass scale. Which means the Flash will always get the first "move" in a duel between them. But let's assume that they both want to fight. Both run to the end of the universe. SS being the power cosmic still exists because he is a part of the universe. Flash dies because in the end he's mortal and the universe has just ended.
On September 13 2011 14:35 Orcasgt24 wrote: Doctor Manhattan vs. Goku He brings all 7 Dragon Balls and wishes for the power to defeat Doctor Manhattan. Since the Dragon Balls grant ANY wish he will get it and then win.
man you don't understand your dragonball lore yet haha, neither do i fully but i'm pretty sure it grants any wish within the power of the dragon itself. so if the dragon doesn't have the power to defeat or the power to grant it, then it doesn't work
Let's not even get that far. The moment Goku shows up with 7 dragonballs one of the dragonballs is already a puff of smoke as Dr. Manahattan has transmuted it at will.
That is, if Dr. Manhattan actually cares enough to bother.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just for arguments sake, I'm gonna argue:D
The physics of the marvel and DC multiverses are mutually exclusive so lets do two arguments, one for each universe.
Marvel universe: If flash was in the marvel universe, the speed force would be an abstract entity as it is the embodiment of speed. If eternity is the embodiment of space, and infinity the embodiment of time, the speed force would be a composite of both. And thus potentially vastly more powerful, something like the phoenix force when summoned by Jean Grey. Powers from abstract entities trump power cosmic in the marvel universe. Since flash is the embodiment of the speed force, one could argue that it would make the an abstract.
In addition: As the marvel universe apparently isn't governed by the law of special relativity, and flash can travel at the fastest speed possible, he should be able to outspeed the SS measly 2x lightspeed easily. As both flash and SS have cosmic awareness, flash should be able to out maneuver SS and wear him out and take him out with a hit of virtually unlimited kinetic energy gained from momentum.
DC universe: Since galactus doesn't exist in the DC universe, SS borrowed powers wouldn't even work here. Even if it would, he would have a hard time adjusting his powers based on energy absorbtion and manipulation since this universe isn't governed by the same laws of physics. He would not be able to exceed or even go very near light speed with his surf board as he would be effected by relativistic forces of time dilation and length contraction as he got close to c. The speed force explicitly protects Flashs body from relativistic effects as he gets close to c.
Not to put a damper in your overall argument--but if the speedforce is simply a composite of space and time then it's be definition weaker than the power cosmic which goes beyond space and time. Not saying SS is better--just saying that I don't see how Flash is better if you argue that the Speed Force is the composite of space and time.
I guess for this argument, when we put Flash into the Marvel Universe, he has the equivalent powers of the Speed Gem (the power of Speed, Motion as we can describe it in Marvel Universe context). As such, his power is simply one over the vast majority of cosmic energies or forces of reality that exists within the Marvel plane. Time travel is still related to speed in this case right though? Where he moves so fast he can actually go forward or back depending on how he travels in the timeline.
And going back to the surfer, if he were in the DC universe, energy is still energy which the Surfer can theoretically tap into, be it more difficult to adapt to at first but hey, he'll get the hang of it.
Oh, and I'm not sure if I am correct with this, but when it comes to showcasing Flash's peak/ultimate form (if you can call it that) It is usually presented as a self preserving mechanism right? Like when he went against black flash. His mindset is "Gotta go faster, faster, faster, then boom!" It's like his self preservation mechanism unlocks his potential, which unlike the Surfer, he wills it to occur or not, regardless of whether it's an act of self preservation.
Taking into account how their characters are, yes, Flash nor surfer would not go behind the back of their opponents to kill them while they were still less powerful or mortal.
I'd say it may go down to where the battle takes place? Can the flash fight in space? I don't have proof of it so I can not say for certain. But I think Surfer has the overall advantage, other than with the category of speed. He also has "enlightenment" or cosmic awareness if you could at least call it that so he's no push over in the thinking department. =)
Just saying. My 2 cents IMO. =)
Let's be honest. SS would never duel anyone if it got in the way of him moping about feeling guilty for committing planetary genocide on am ass scale. Which means the Flash will always get the first "move" in a duel between them. But let's assume that they both want to fight. Both run to the end of the universe. SS being the power cosmic still exists because he is a part of the universe. Flash dies because in the end he's mortal and the universe has just ended.
Flash travels to the end of the universe and time all the time, even before he became the actual embodiment of the force itself. I also wouldn't call Flash mortal, considering that every single Flash besides Garick has died several times and they just remanifest from the Speed Force (their immortality just isn't as obvious as Surfer's when he reconstitutes himself out of nothing).
On September 13 2011 14:35 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Flash vs. Mighty Thor Thor. Sorry speedy, you don't hit hard enough. It will take a long time but sooner or later Thors gonna smoke you and your done.
Oh man, really? No one hits harder than Flash. His hits are literally infinite and unlimited in their strength.
"If thor has the odinsword which can defeat nearly omnipotent celestials..." Has anybody besides Odin ever used the Odinsword? As far as I know, Thor has only threatened to draw it so far?
"... then Flash just brings Thor into the end of time or "nothingness" and Thor would have no way out" I'm pretty sure that nobody just brings Thor anywhere if he doesn't want to go, so it would be nice if stuff like this would get just a little more elaborated. Please note that Thor has used Mjölnir to create Anti-Force before, so he shouldn't have to just watch when the Flash taps into the Speed Force.
"But Goku is not bloodthirsty, he'll accept surrender." While Goku is not bloodsthirsty, he's kind of the only character on that list notorious for eagerly participating in such tournaments... so I'd argue that, just for the sake of it, he'd at least try to make the fight happen.
"Bruce Banner will do everything he can to not show up as to ensure the minimum amount of lives lost." Banner always tries that, and it never works. That's kind of the premise of the character.
"Power Cosmic. There is now a red sun engulfing the planet. Power Cosmic--Silver Surfer knows Kryptonite hurts superman. The planet is now covered in Kryptonite..." The real question for the fight between Silver Surfer and Supes is who'd be less emo about using their powers. If you really think that the Surfer would endanger an entire planet full of innocents by altering the sun of by putting radioactive material all over it, please refer to: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=silver surfer
"Mind controls Wonder Woman to stab herself." Roughly 50% of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery are magicians, sorcerers etc., and Wonder Woman has withstand and/or broken mind controls on many occasions. If she can do it against Circe ("goddess-level sorceress" according to her wiki page), I'm pretty sure that she'd have a decent chance vs. a telepathic attack of the Phoenix as well.
"He brings all 7 Dragon Balls and wishes for the power to defeat Doctor Manhattan." Right. Because that's how Dragon Balls work. You just collect them and wish for Cell, Boo, whoever to disappear. Wait...
"The Hulk is basiclly the same as Batman villian Bane." Remarkable differences between the Hulk and Bane include (but are not limited to): Bane is a genius strategist, martial artist and master of disguise at peak human physical condition, while the Hulk throws tanks around like candy, jumps over skyscrapers, shrugs of most mundane attacks (including tank shells and the like), and regenerates damage so fast that it isn't funny. Also, the Hulk is green.
"These two fighters [Captain Marvel and Lobo] are exactly the same excpt for one thing." Errrm... no. They have about as much in common as the Hulk and Bane. You know, one is the Shazam-guy, while Lobo is basically Wolverine turned up to eleven.
On September 13 2011 18:29 Poffel wrote: Some random responses:
"If thor has the odinsword which can defeat nearly omnipotent celestials..." Has anybody besides Odin ever used the Odinsword? As far as I know, Thor has only threatened to draw it so far?
"... then Flash just brings Thor into the end of time or "nothingness" and Thor would have no way out" I'm pretty sure that nobody just brings Thor anywhere if he doesn't want to go, so it would be nice if stuff like this would get just a little more elaborated. Please note that Thor has used Mjölnir to create Anti-Force before, so he shouldn't have to just watch when the Flash taps into the Speed Force.
"But Goku is not bloodthirsty, he'll accept surrender." While Goku is not bloodsthirsty, he's kind of the only character on that list notorious for eagerly participating in such tournaments... so I'd argue that, just for the sake of it, he'd at least try to make the fight happen.
"Bruce Banner will do everything he can to not show up as to ensure the minimum amount of lives lost." Banner always tries that, and it never works. That's kind of the premise of the character.
"Power Cosmic. There is now a red sun engulfing the planet. Power Cosmic--Silver Surfer knows Kryptonite hurts superman. The planet is now covered in Kryptonite..." The real question for the fight between Silver Surfer and Supes is who'd be less emo about using their powers. If you really think that the Surfer would endanger an entire planet full of innocents by altering the sun of by putting radioactive material all over it, please refer to: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=silver surfer
"Mind controls Wonder Woman to stab herself." Roughly 50% of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery are magicians, sorcerers etc., and Wonder Woman has withstand and/or broken mind controls on many occasions. If she can do it against Circe ("goddess-level sorceress" according to her wiki page), I'm pretty sure that she'd have a decent chance vs. a telepathic attack of the Phoenix as well.
"He brings all 7 Dragon Balls and wishes for the power to defeat Doctor Manhattan." Right. Because that's how Dragon Balls work. You just collect them and wish for Cell, Boo, whoever to disappear. Wait...
"The Hulk is basiclly the same as Batman villian Bane." Remarkable differences between the Hulk and Bane include (but are not limited to): Bane is a genius strategist, martial artist and master of disguise at peak human physical condition, while the Hulk throws tanks around like candy, jumps over skyscrapers, shrugs of most mundane attacks (including tank shells and the like), and regenerates damage so fast that it isn't funny. Also, the Hulk is green.
"These two fighters [Captain Marvel and Lobo] are exactly the same excpt for one thing." Errrm... no. They have about as much in common as the Hulk and Bane. You know, one is the Shazam-guy, while Lobo is basically Wolverine turned up to eleven.
To expand on the premise of how Flash defeats thor, he can prevent Thor from even acting/reacting and then bring him into nothingness. Make thor theoretically is like a statue that he can bring anywhere as he is the embodiment of speed itself. Also, unlike surfer, he may be a God but his feats as far as I know are limited to those of feats of strength and a "factor" of speed like how "fast" he can wield or strike his hammer.
As for Goku, yep, I agree, he'd try to at least want to get the fight started but I am still in doubt whether Dr. Manhattan would bother participating, even if Goku pleads or mocks him. =)
Well, for Supes vs Surfer, one could argue that surfer could bring him to a black hole then. Both have theoretically feats of strength but Supes is stronger because of our sun or a sun, exception though for a Red Sun/Star so in a black hole where even the light is absorbed. And Supes would end up running out of energy like his battle with Doomsday drained him out, thus "knocking" him out of the match.
The 7 Dragon Ball wish by Goku was just flat out wierd and should not be part of the fight. You could just simply say, if by any chance the Dragon God Shenron could say do what is stated, one could argue his effectivity is limited to once a year or thrice a year (depending on the type of dragon ball you pertain to). But as we also know through Goku's character, he wouldn't do such a thing as it is not honorable to win by just wishing your enemy away. I wouldn't say the same for the other DBZ character cause they tried that with Buu, although the dragon god I recall couldn't do it cause he was too powerful as far as I can recall (but hey it might be a case of lost in translation)
I also don't agree that Hulk is the same as Bane, bane gets his strength from drugs injected into his system, but it has a limitation as to a feat of strength it can give him. As for hulk, he would have no qualm to level a place if he's in berserk mode to defeat an opponent "HULK SMASH". Batman's weapons wouldn't be able to "pierce his skin" to inject the drugs once he reaches that level.
My opinion is Jean can still win against wonder woman, especially in Phoenix Mode she would be rendered untouchable by Wonder Woman. Even if she breaks the mind control, she can't really do much to Phoenix, don't know how the lasso could help her here though. =P
I cant believe no one has mentioned Dumbledore, he can insta-kill, insta-teleport
Magic has no limitations: invisibility cloak resurrection stone immortality stone luck potion (he can be lucky and defeat 10 gods at once), have infinite lives due to horcruxes time machine (time turner)
On September 13 2011 19:45 progaymer wrote: I cant believe no one has mentioned Dumbledore, he can insta-kill, insta-teleport
... which are actually quite minuscule abilities compared to those of Dr. Manhattan, Superman-Prime, or in fact any of the many reality-warping heroes in, for example, the marvel universe.
On September 13 2011 19:45 progaymer wrote: I cant believe no one has mentioned Dumbledore, he can insta-kill, insta-teleport
... which are actually quite minuscule abilities compared to those of Dr. Manhattan, Superman-Prime, or in fact any of the many reality-warping heroes in, for example, the marvel universe.
dumbledore would just drink a luck potion, and discover the spell for the eleventh dimension and crush those heroes
I think those cases with which the character is bound to magic with actual spells to contend with is a cause for limitation of their abilities. If the spell does not exist, it therefore can not be done. And they must at least learn the spell properly first before it is to be executed and/or make the aforementioned potion sutied for the task by searching for the proper ingredients, if in fact the recipe does exist. And so on and so forth...
Also, luck would have its limitation, as is stated it is just luck. You may be lucky enough to evade the first blow, second, third etc, but at a certain point your luck will run out or won't be enough to help/save you.
As for the Flash v Thor debate--the reason Thor's immortality wins because he doesn't die while the Flash has to be reincarnated. Thor lives forever, Flash dies of old age, Thor is given the victory, then Flash is reborn through the speedforce.
Thor wins on technicality.
Bruce Banner would also lose against Batman because Batman will ensure that Banner gets the plane tickets/transportation to get out of the city far enough. Bruce Wayne beats Hulk by cheating.
As for Lobo vs Captain Marvel, I really believe that Lobo would cheat and try to kill Marvel before the week preparation is up. If he doesn't then Marvel wins by definition. (Pick up Lobo, fly to sun, leave sun. Lobo is now floating in the middle of a star too hot for any space ship to rescue him (reasonably) Captain Marvel wins. I do however feel that Lobo won't play fair.
EDIT: If you don't allow cheating, Lobo and Batman lose big time.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just for arguments sake, I'm gonna argue:D
The physics of the marvel and DC multiverses are mutually exclusive so lets do two arguments, one for each universe.
Marvel universe: If flash was in the marvel universe, the speed force would be an abstract entity as it is the embodiment of speed. If eternity is the embodiment of space, and infinity the embodiment of time, the speed force would be a composite of both. And thus potentially vastly more powerful, something like the phoenix force when summoned by Jean Grey. Powers from abstract entities trump power cosmic in the marvel universe. Since flash is the embodiment of the speed force, one could argue that it would make the an abstract.
In addition: As the marvel universe apparently isn't governed by the law of special relativity, and flash can travel at the fastest speed possible, he should be able to outspeed the SS measly 2x lightspeed easily. As both flash and SS have cosmic awareness, flash should be able to out maneuver SS and wear him out and take him out with a hit of virtually unlimited kinetic energy gained from momentum.
DC universe: Since galactus doesn't exist in the DC universe, SS borrowed powers wouldn't even work here. Even if it would, he would have a hard time adjusting his powers based on energy absorbtion and manipulation since this universe isn't governed by the same laws of physics. He would not be able to exceed or even go very near light speed with his surf board as he would be effected by relativistic forces of time dilation and length contraction as he got close to c. The speed force explicitly protects Flashs body from relativistic effects as he gets close to c.
No, your reasoning is completely flawed. Why the hell would the power cosmic not exist or be severely limited in the DC universe while the speed force would be completely unaltered in the Marvel Universe? Either they both work (Surfer wins) or neither does (Surfer still wins). It's funny because in the crossovers (not canon), the writers actually made the exact opposite choice than yours: the Silver Surfer's powers always work perfectly in the DC universe, while Flash's power disappeared when he entered the Marvel universe in one crossover (but those crossovers aren't canon anyway).
Your argument regarding Flash being an abstract in the Marvel universe is groundless anyway, because Flash has never displayed feats that would indicate he'd be an abstract. And that's exactly what such theoretical battles are supposed to be based on: on-panel feats. The bottom line is that the Surfer has displayed feats way beyond Flash's and would crush him in battle.
On September 14 2011 07:53 AlBundy wrote: Wow 30 pages later and people keep mentioning Goku? You got to be trolling... Even Professor Xavier could take down Goku.
Strongest: hard to say, does "strongest" mean physical strenght or "fighting power" ? The silver surfer is probably one of the strongest, alongside Hulk and Thor. But superman on the other hand doesnt seem very strong, he needs the sun and if you consider that green lantern gets his strenght from all the will power in the universe he is probably way stronger :D
I guess I'll go with Hulk :D
Edit: alright, the guy above me is right, Dr. Manhatten should pwn them all.
On September 14 2011 09:27 travisyang wrote: Goku, HIS POWER LEVEL IS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You know he eventually went over 120,000,000,000............. lol.........
Best Superhero would be the Japanese Tentacle Superhero.... you know what I mean
The men and women who work 3-4 jobs to put food on the table for their kids, the men and women who are single parents and go to college while also paying the bills, the people who make the United Stated the beautiful (it has its flaws), and amazing country it is.
comic books get more and more ridiculous. they need a storyline and endings for any real character development. i mean superman being able to juggle planets, holding a black hole in his hands and destroying a solar system by sneezing.. like... really? the creators will do anything to make their hero sound invincible.
and then everything conflicts like where superman struggles with vastly inferior enemies, but then all the amazing feats he can do.
i liked the classic, old school superman best, when he was "faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound". nothing outraegous
On September 14 2011 11:44 FusionMrWet wrote: The men and women who work 3-4 jobs to put food on the table for their kids, the men and women who are single parents and go to college while also paying the bills, the people who make the United Stated the beautiful (it has its flaws), and amazing country it is.
On September 14 2011 11:44 FusionMrWet wrote: The men and women who work 3-4 jobs to put food on the table for their kids, the men and women who are single parents and go to college while also paying the bills, the people who make the United Stated the beautiful (it has its flaws), and amazing country it is.
what about the people in other countries who do that
On September 14 2011 12:31 Nicky98 wrote: Cmon guys Dr. Manhattan can control matter itself.. nothing can stand against that.
Silver Surfer can manipulate energy.
And Superman prime can do all of that plus much much more with his godlike powers.
Problem with Superman Prime is he doesn't seem to be a hero because of what he has done and does. He may be all powerful but he doesn't fit the category AFAIK. =)
On September 14 2011 12:31 Nicky98 wrote: Cmon guys Dr. Manhattan can control matter itself.. nothing can stand against that.
Silver Surfer can manipulate energy.
And Superman prime can do all of that plus much much more with his godlike powers.
Problem with Superman Prime is he doesn't seem to be a hero because of what he has done and does. He may be all powerful but he doesn't fit the category AFAIK. =)
Supermanprime is not a "new" superman. He's simply the original superman realizing that he didn't have to hold himself back anymore and so spent a million years learning everything he could about the universe braniac style minus the genocide (supposedly)
He literally is *the* superman people grew up with--just no longer emo and shit.
Even still, despite all that, yeah, omnipotent beings don't count lol
--The fact that Dr. Manhattan is limited to simply only being able to control matter means he doesn't even get to the heavyweights of Marvel and DC. For example, Nathan Grey (heck, seemingly the entire Grey bloodline) can not only control matter, but they control existence as we know it, able to create and dissipate entire universes at will. And they're not even the heavyweights.
1. Batman - he's obviously the coolest! 2. Martian Manhunter - Superstrength, Shapeshifting, Psy Powers, Invisibility, Flight, Invunrability, Xray Vision... The guy can do everything.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just for arguments sake, I'm gonna argue:D
The physics of the marvel and DC multiverses are mutually exclusive so lets do two arguments, one for each universe.
Marvel universe: If flash was in the marvel universe, the speed force would be an abstract entity as it is the embodiment of speed. If eternity is the embodiment of space, and infinity the embodiment of time, the speed force would be a composite of both. And thus potentially vastly more powerful, something like the phoenix force when summoned by Jean Grey. Powers from abstract entities trump power cosmic in the marvel universe. Since flash is the embodiment of the speed force, one could argue that it would make the an abstract.
In addition: As the marvel universe apparently isn't governed by the law of special relativity, and flash can travel at the fastest speed possible, he should be able to outspeed the SS measly 2x lightspeed easily. As both flash and SS have cosmic awareness, flash should be able to out maneuver SS and wear him out and take him out with a hit of virtually unlimited kinetic energy gained from momentum.
DC universe: Since galactus doesn't exist in the DC universe, SS borrowed powers wouldn't even work here. Even if it would, he would have a hard time adjusting his powers based on energy absorbtion and manipulation since this universe isn't governed by the same laws of physics. He would not be able to exceed or even go very near light speed with his surf board as he would be effected by relativistic forces of time dilation and length contraction as he got close to c. The speed force explicitly protects Flashs body from relativistic effects as he gets close to c.
No, your reasoning is completely flawed. Why the hell would the power cosmic not exist or be severely limited in the DC universe while the speed force would be completely unaltered in the Marvel Universe? Either they both work (Surfer wins) or neither does (Surfer still wins). It's funny because in the crossovers (not canon), the writers actually made the exact opposite choice than yours: the Silver Surfer's powers always work perfectly in the DC universe, while Flash's power disappeared when he entered the Marvel universe in one crossover (but those crossovers aren't canon anyway).
Your argument regarding Flash being an abstract in the Marvel universe is groundless anyway, because Flash has never displayed feats that would indicate he'd be an abstract. And that's exactly what such theoretical battles are supposed to be based on: on-panel feats. The bottom line is that the Surfer has displayed feats way beyond Flash's and would crush him in battle.
No, your reasoning is completely flawed. Why the hell would the power cosmic not exist or be severely limited in the DC universe while the speed force would be completely unaltered in the Marvel Universe?
My reasoning is this: The power cosmic is galacus power of which a small portion is only extended to the silver surfer. It is a power that can be lent and taken away by will. SS would have no powers if there weren't a galactus to enable them, and there are no galacus in the DC universe.
The source of flash powers, the speed force, is a fundamental force of the universe, very similar to marvels concept of abstracts.
Your argument regarding Flash being an abstract in the Marvel universe is groundless anyway, because Flash has never displayed feats that would indicate he'd be an abstract. And that's exactly what such theoretical battles are supposed to be based on: on-panel feats. The bottom line is that the Surfer has displayed feats way beyond Flash's and would crush him in battle. I never argued that flash was an abstract, I said that one could argue that since flash is the embodiment of a fundamental cosmic force in the DC universe, that could be translated to him being an abstract in the marvel universe.
While I agree that on-panel displayed feats should be the basis of the extent of someones powers, one must consider that their super powers are hard to compare, as they are based on fundamentally different universes with different rule sets. If you start comparing certain powers closely, you get weird paradoxes.
In a DC universe (governed by special relativity), the speed of light is the maximum theoretical speed, in a Marvel universe (Newtonian) it's an arbitrary number.
When flash accelerates to the speed of light, everything would not only seem to stand still in comparison to his fast speed. It would literary stand completely still as he have effectively frozen time. How would one perceive someone moving at twice the speed of light in a newtonian universe (as the silver surfer can do) in this situation?
On September 14 2011 12:31 Nicky98 wrote: Cmon guys Dr. Manhattan can control matter itself.. nothing can stand against that.
Silver Surfer can manipulate energy.
And Superman prime can do all of that plus much much more with his godlike powers.
Problem with Superman Prime is he doesn't seem to be a hero because of what he has done and does. He may be all powerful but he doesn't fit the category AFAIK. =)
superMAN prime from DC 1 million, not superBOY prime from crisis sigh... everyone confuses these two up
On September 14 2011 11:44 FusionMrWet wrote: The men and women who work 3-4 jobs to put food on the table for their kids, the men and women who are single parents and go to college while also paying the bills, the people who make the United Stated the beautiful (it has its flaws), and amazing country it is.
what about the people in other countries who do that
Since they arent american they can go fuck themselves
On September 12 2011 20:55 17Sphynx17 wrote: Sentry i think almost counts as a celestial on the same level with galactus and watcher right? He was allowed to be in attendance of their meeting for the battle with thanos with tribunal present as well as eternity/infinity.
He would surely beat surfer as he is immune to the power cosmic. That at least i would agree, i just dont know where or howto place him though. He is human but is he still mortal? I dont know much about his lore beyond that which ive stated.
I believe you are thinking of Quasar, the latter attended the meeting with the abstract beings regarding Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet only because he was Epoch's champion. Most people believe the Silver Surfer would clearly defeat Sentry, since Sentry has never achieved anything on panel that would put him on SS's level. He got stalemated (well, he technically got beat) by World War Hulk and the Terrax he defeated was only a pale copy of the Terrax of the 1980s and 1990s. Since when is he immune to the power cosmic?
On September 12 2011 20:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On September 12 2011 20:52 kwizach wrote:
On September 12 2011 20:43 17Sphynx17 wrote:
On September 12 2011 19:15 kwizach wrote:
On September 12 2011 18:16 17Sphynx17 wrote:
On September 12 2011 16:19 Geo.Rion wrote: So what's the list of completly broken heroes so far? Aside from faceroller reality benders.
1. Flash as the speed of force 2. Shiny Superman Prime 3. Dr Manhatten (dont give me the missile crap, that he might not be able to stop, at the beginning of the Watchmen movie) 4. Thor 5. Silver surfer?
I wont put Hulk in there because limitless strength is useless without some sort of cosmic power, i mean the rest just go out in the space and rain shit down on him or trap him in some kind of bullshit
I agree with Flash 100% as the strongest as him alone without any tools and befitting the category of a superhero.
Just a question though, what Thor are we pertaining to? I mean I'm not bashing the hero per se just that the Thor in the movie is the Thor, son of Odin. But isn't it in the comics that Thor is actually a mortal who was deemed worthy by the hammer to become Thor. I use mortal because Beta Ray Bill managed to use the hammer effectively becoming the entity known as Thor as there is only one Mjolnir per universe.
Anyway, using that premise of the hammer granting the powers of Thor to the mortal, if the hammer were to be separated from Thor for more than a minute, he would revert to his mortal form would he not? (Infinity Wars/Gauntlet battle with Thanos).
I'm just clarifying for everyone's knowledge and enlightenment. The reason why I bring this up is, if what I said is what defines Thor, then effectively that negates his usefulness without his hammer would it not? Kind of like Silver Surfer without his board.
Please clarify also, would both be able to fly (theoretically at their maximum speed) without their respective items?
Thor was always a God - he was placed into the body of Donald Blake by Odin, but that's not his original form and the Blake persona has been stripped from Thor in the past. I'm not sure what his current status is, but he has many times been able to remain Thor without his hammer. Regarding the Silver Surfer, it's only the movie version who needs his board for his powers, and the movies are non-canon. The Silver Surfer from the comics certainly does not need his board for his power, and would destroy Flash without breaking a sweat.
Ok, i get the continuity then for thor. But for surfer doesnt he lose the flight-speed thing if he's not on his board? I am open to corrections on this as i know im not an expert per se on all heroes.ü
I dont think surfer is considered a god though but a cosmic being, less than a celestial.
The surfer has been shown to be able to fly without his board in the past, but I don't recall seeing him go as fast (I might be wrong). That's still irrelevant though, since he retains his reaction time, which is more than fast enough to blast Flash into oblivion, send him into a black hole, remove the air from around him, shrink him to the size of an ant, etc. etc. before Flash can even come close.
What makes you think this? Flash is fast enough to act on Super Prime, how is Silver Surfer somehow cosmically better than him?
Also, as if Flash needs air to live (He's literally ran into nothingness), or is if a Black Hole would beat him. Silver Surfer, in all iterations, is always shown as having to do some gesture or action to make things happen. It's not like he's infallibly omnipotent and everything he ever wants happens at will with no thought or delay. I think you're really overblowing the Silver Surfer.
Absolutely nothing indicates that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer when it comes to reaction time. Even without his board, the Surfer would therefore quite easily defeat Flash with the power cosmic. Again, the Surfer is more powerful than Flash in every single other department, and has displayed speed feats at least equal to Flash's. See this Silver Surfer respect thread.
In the DC Universe, Flash is the fastest being in existence, excluding the omnipotent (Like Superman Prime etc). Why do you persist in saying Silver Surfer is faster with no frame of reference? Is he legitimately the fastest being in the universe in Marvel?
I did not say he was faster, I said had Flash had no edge over him. What speed feats can you show that would indicate Flash is faster? The surfer can travel through space at billions of times the speed of light (Scan 1 - Scan 2), and he can travel through time thanks to his speed just like Flash. How the hell could Flash hope to compete against someone who is at least his match in terms of speed and who destroys him in every other department, including strength, durability, standard senses, cosmic awareness, psi abilities, energy blasts, energy and matter manipulation, energy absorption, transmutation, healing, teleportation, creating illusions, etc. etc.?
If SS can only go warp speed I'm putting Captain Picard down as strongest super hero, lololol.
On September 14 2011 11:44 FusionMrWet wrote: The men and women who work 3-4 jobs to put food on the table for their kids, the men and women who are single parents and go to college while also paying the bills, the people who make the United Stated the beautiful (it has its flaws), and amazing country it is.
what about the people in other countries who do that
My favorite superhero would have to be Batman however. Although he doesn't have real superpowers, I love the story behind the character, and how he manages to compensate and always get the upper hand through his intelligence.
On September 15 2011 00:00 Faraday wrote: Superman has no rival no question about it.
My favorite superhero would have to be Batman however. Although he doesn't have real superpowers, I love the story behind the character, and how he manages to compensate and always get the upper hand through his intelligence.
Jean Grey hosts a being that can destroy anything in existence by simply THINKING it.
Oh, and she has gone toe-to-toe with Galactus, who would squash Superman easily.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just for arguments sake, I'm gonna argue:D
The physics of the marvel and DC multiverses are mutually exclusive so lets do two arguments, one for each universe.
Marvel universe: If flash was in the marvel universe, the speed force would be an abstract entity as it is the embodiment of speed. If eternity is the embodiment of space, and infinity the embodiment of time, the speed force would be a composite of both. And thus potentially vastly more powerful, something like the phoenix force when summoned by Jean Grey. Powers from abstract entities trump power cosmic in the marvel universe. Since flash is the embodiment of the speed force, one could argue that it would make the an abstract.
In addition: As the marvel universe apparently isn't governed by the law of special relativity, and flash can travel at the fastest speed possible, he should be able to outspeed the SS measly 2x lightspeed easily. As both flash and SS have cosmic awareness, flash should be able to out maneuver SS and wear him out and take him out with a hit of virtually unlimited kinetic energy gained from momentum.
DC universe: Since galactus doesn't exist in the DC universe, SS borrowed powers wouldn't even work here. Even if it would, he would have a hard time adjusting his powers based on energy absorbtion and manipulation since this universe isn't governed by the same laws of physics. He would not be able to exceed or even go very near light speed with his surf board as he would be effected by relativistic forces of time dilation and length contraction as he got close to c. The speed force explicitly protects Flashs body from relativistic effects as he gets close to c.
No, your reasoning is completely flawed. Why the hell would the power cosmic not exist or be severely limited in the DC universe while the speed force would be completely unaltered in the Marvel Universe? Either they both work (Surfer wins) or neither does (Surfer still wins). It's funny because in the crossovers (not canon), the writers actually made the exact opposite choice than yours: the Silver Surfer's powers always work perfectly in the DC universe, while Flash's power disappeared when he entered the Marvel universe in one crossover (but those crossovers aren't canon anyway).
Your argument regarding Flash being an abstract in the Marvel universe is groundless anyway, because Flash has never displayed feats that would indicate he'd be an abstract. And that's exactly what such theoretical battles are supposed to be based on: on-panel feats. The bottom line is that the Surfer has displayed feats way beyond Flash's and would crush him in battle.
No, your reasoning is completely flawed. Why the hell would the power cosmic not exist or be severely limited in the DC universe while the speed force would be completely unaltered in the Marvel Universe?
My reasoning is this: The power cosmic is galacus power of which a small portion is only extended to the silver surfer. It is a power that can be lent and taken away by will. SS would have no powers if there weren't a galactus to enable them, and there are no galacus in the DC universe.
The source of flash powers, the speed force, is a fundamental force of the universe, very similar to marvels concept of abstracts.
Galactus is the most powerful being imbued with the power cosmic, but he's not the source of the power cosmic. If he was to suddenly disappear, the Surfer would retain his power, so to repeat myself, your reasoning is flawed.
On September 14 2011 19:46 VoirDire wrote: Your argument regarding Flash being an abstract in the Marvel universe is groundless anyway, because Flash has never displayed feats that would indicate he'd be an abstract. And that's exactly what such theoretical battles are supposed to be based on: on-panel feats. The bottom line is that the Surfer has displayed feats way beyond Flash's and would crush him in battle. I never argued that flash was an abstract, I said that one could argue that since flash is the embodiment of a fundamental cosmic force in the DC universe, that could be translated to him being an abstract in the marvel universe.
While I agree that on-panel displayed feats should be the basis of the extent of someones powers, one must consider that their super powers are hard to compare, as they are based on fundamentally different universes with different rule sets. If you start comparing certain powers closely, you get weird paradoxes.
Not in this case. You get one guy who's more powerful (the Surfer) and one guy who would get defeated (Flash).
On September 14 2011 19:46 VoirDire wrote: In a DC universe (governed by special relativity), the speed of light is the maximum theoretical speed, in a Marvel universe (Newtonian) it's an arbitrary number.
When flash accelerates to the speed of light, everything would not only seem to stand still in comparison to his fast speed. It would literary stand completely still as he have effectively frozen time. How would one perceive someone moving at twice the speed of light in a newtonian universe (as the silver surfer can do) in this situation?
The DC universe has seen multiple characters travel faster than the speed of light - it's therefore not the maximum theoretical speed.
Anyone claiming the flash has to remember that he's gotten beaten by CAPTAIN COLD. someone who uses a COLD GUN with NO OTHER POWERS If he's all powerful then his list of villains wouldn't include so many losers. At least the silver surfer's enemies are all super uber powerful
On September 15 2011 00:00 Faraday wrote: Superman has no rival no question about it.
My favorite superhero would have to be Batman however. Although he doesn't have real superpowers, I love the story behind the character, and how he manages to compensate and always get the upper hand through his intelligence.
Jean Grey hosts a being that can destroy anything in existence by simply THINKING it.
Oh, and she has gone toe-to-toe with Galactus, who would squash Superman easily.
It's actually worse. The phoenix is fueled by the potential of life. It is the creator of the the universe, so to speak. Just by using it's power the universe dies a little sooner than it would have. Just the act of existing in the universe is killing the universe--it is that powerful.
From Wikipedia
The Phoenix Force has the ability to manipulate cosmic energies and to tap into the life-force reserved for future generations, thus denying them existence. It can wield this energy to project beams of immense destructive force. It can transmigrate throughout time and space by folding its energy back into itself, causing it to collapse akin to a black hole and then reform itself upon reaching its destination. It can directly absorb energy such as Cyclops' optic blasts or even the entire energy of a sun. It is also capable of absorbing the energy and life-force from a foe. As it is the nexus of all psionic energy, it has mental abilities of cosmic scope, including telepathy and telekinesis.
The extent of the Phoenix Force's abilities has not been fully clarified. Jean Grey as The White Phoenix of the Crown was able to change the future of a universe by reaching back in time and pushing her husband Cyclops to move on with his life and held a universe in the palm of her hands.
I repeat that.
And held a universe in the palm of her hand.
She absorbs life itself. You're about to fight the phoenix, you're alive in some way or form, so at will you die.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just for arguments sake, I'm gonna argue:D
The physics of the marvel and DC multiverses are mutually exclusive so lets do two arguments, one for each universe.
Marvel universe: If flash was in the marvel universe, the speed force would be an abstract entity as it is the embodiment of speed. If eternity is the embodiment of space, and infinity the embodiment of time, the speed force would be a composite of both. And thus potentially vastly more powerful, something like the phoenix force when summoned by Jean Grey. Powers from abstract entities trump power cosmic in the marvel universe. Since flash is the embodiment of the speed force, one could argue that it would make the an abstract.
In addition: As the marvel universe apparently isn't governed by the law of special relativity, and flash can travel at the fastest speed possible, he should be able to outspeed the SS measly 2x lightspeed easily. As both flash and SS have cosmic awareness, flash should be able to out maneuver SS and wear him out and take him out with a hit of virtually unlimited kinetic energy gained from momentum.
DC universe: Since galactus doesn't exist in the DC universe, SS borrowed powers wouldn't even work here. Even if it would, he would have a hard time adjusting his powers based on energy absorbtion and manipulation since this universe isn't governed by the same laws of physics. He would not be able to exceed or even go very near light speed with his surf board as he would be effected by relativistic forces of time dilation and length contraction as he got close to c. The speed force explicitly protects Flashs body from relativistic effects as he gets close to c.
No, your reasoning is completely flawed. Why the hell would the power cosmic not exist or be severely limited in the DC universe while the speed force would be completely unaltered in the Marvel Universe? Either they both work (Surfer wins) or neither does (Surfer still wins). It's funny because in the crossovers (not canon), the writers actually made the exact opposite choice than yours: the Silver Surfer's powers always work perfectly in the DC universe, while Flash's power disappeared when he entered the Marvel universe in one crossover (but those crossovers aren't canon anyway).
Your argument regarding Flash being an abstract in the Marvel universe is groundless anyway, because Flash has never displayed feats that would indicate he'd be an abstract. And that's exactly what such theoretical battles are supposed to be based on: on-panel feats. The bottom line is that the Surfer has displayed feats way beyond Flash's and would crush him in battle.
No, your reasoning is completely flawed. Why the hell would the power cosmic not exist or be severely limited in the DC universe while the speed force would be completely unaltered in the Marvel Universe?
My reasoning is this: The power cosmic is galacus power of which a small portion is only extended to the silver surfer. It is a power that can be lent and taken away by will. SS would have no powers if there weren't a galactus to enable them, and there are no galacus in the DC universe.
The source of flash powers, the speed force, is a fundamental force of the universe, very similar to marvels concept of abstracts.
Galactus is the most powerful being imbued with the power cosmic, but he's not the source of the power cosmic. If he was to suddenly disappear, the Surfer would retain his power, so to repeat myself, your reasoning is flawed.
On September 14 2011 19:46 VoirDire wrote: Your argument regarding Flash being an abstract in the Marvel universe is groundless anyway, because Flash has never displayed feats that would indicate he'd be an abstract. And that's exactly what such theoretical battles are supposed to be based on: on-panel feats. The bottom line is that the Surfer has displayed feats way beyond Flash's and would crush him in battle. I never argued that flash was an abstract, I said that one could argue that since flash is the embodiment of a fundamental cosmic force in the DC universe, that could be translated to him being an abstract in the marvel universe.
While I agree that on-panel displayed feats should be the basis of the extent of someones powers, one must consider that their super powers are hard to compare, as they are based on fundamentally different universes with different rule sets. If you start comparing certain powers closely, you get weird paradoxes.
Not in this case. You get one guy who's more powerful (the Surfer) and one guy who would get defeated (Flash).
On September 14 2011 19:46 VoirDire wrote: In a DC universe (governed by special relativity), the speed of light is the maximum theoretical speed, in a Marvel universe (Newtonian) it's an arbitrary number.
When flash accelerates to the speed of light, everything would not only seem to stand still in comparison to his fast speed. It would literary stand completely still as he have effectively frozen time. How would one perceive someone moving at twice the speed of light in a newtonian universe (as the silver surfer can do) in this situation?
The DC universe has seen multiple characters travel faster than the speed of light - it's therefore not the maximum theoretical speed.
Just wanted to step in here to set two things straight:
If Galactus would disappear, the Marvel Universe would disappear. That's actually one of the reasons why nobody dares to nuke him (the other being that he's incredibly resilient).
The speed barriers in DC worlds are sound barrier<light barrier<dimensional barrier<speed force barrier. Silver Age Superman once almost flew into Heaven by accident because he went so fast. Superman, Flash, and many others have time-travelled by means of speed. Even before Barry was retconned into an embodiment of the Speed Force, he ran at 300.000.000.000 times the speed of light. So, to sum up, if one were to say that these feats are occuring within realms governed by relativity theory, I'd call that a pretty creative interpretation of Einstein.
Notably, Flash has appeared twice (as far as I know) in the Marvel Universe by now. Before all the Speed Force stuff, he did sort of a Cameo (and was never referred to by name) and curbstomped all competition in a race which established him as "the fastest man in the world" for both Universes. Later, in one of the DC vs. Marvel spinoffs, he lost his connection to the Speed Force - because there is no such thing in the Marvel continuity - and lost a race to fucking Quicksilver.
On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote: Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
Do you even read my posts? Why should the Surfer automatically be just as affected by the Speed force as the DC Earth superheroes when he does not have the same powers as them and is the wielder of the power cosmic which has no equivalent in the DC universe? I explained to you why one could very legitimately discard the possibility of the Surfer getting affected by the power you described, namely that he has resisted similar powers in the past and has shown abilities going WAY BEYOND that power with regards to energy manipulation. Flash, on the other hand, would get utterly destroyed by what the Silver Surfer could dish out. Stop trying to equate to two as if they were both completely vulnerable to the other's power when that's clearly not the case based on the feats they have respectively exhibited.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but just for arguments sake, I'm gonna argue:D
The physics of the marvel and DC multiverses are mutually exclusive so lets do two arguments, one for each universe.
Marvel universe: If flash was in the marvel universe, the speed force would be an abstract entity as it is the embodiment of speed. If eternity is the embodiment of space, and infinity the embodiment of time, the speed force would be a composite of both. And thus potentially vastly more powerful, something like the phoenix force when summoned by Jean Grey. Powers from abstract entities trump power cosmic in the marvel universe. Since flash is the embodiment of the speed force, one could argue that it would make the an abstract.
In addition: As the marvel universe apparently isn't governed by the law of special relativity, and flash can travel at the fastest speed possible, he should be able to outspeed the SS measly 2x lightspeed easily. As both flash and SS have cosmic awareness, flash should be able to out maneuver SS and wear him out and take him out with a hit of virtually unlimited kinetic energy gained from momentum.
DC universe: Since galactus doesn't exist in the DC universe, SS borrowed powers wouldn't even work here. Even if it would, he would have a hard time adjusting his powers based on energy absorbtion and manipulation since this universe isn't governed by the same laws of physics. He would not be able to exceed or even go very near light speed with his surf board as he would be effected by relativistic forces of time dilation and length contraction as he got close to c. The speed force explicitly protects Flashs body from relativistic effects as he gets close to c.
No, your reasoning is completely flawed. Why the hell would the power cosmic not exist or be severely limited in the DC universe while the speed force would be completely unaltered in the Marvel Universe? Either they both work (Surfer wins) or neither does (Surfer still wins). It's funny because in the crossovers (not canon), the writers actually made the exact opposite choice than yours: the Silver Surfer's powers always work perfectly in the DC universe, while Flash's power disappeared when he entered the Marvel universe in one crossover (but those crossovers aren't canon anyway).
Your argument regarding Flash being an abstract in the Marvel universe is groundless anyway, because Flash has never displayed feats that would indicate he'd be an abstract. And that's exactly what such theoretical battles are supposed to be based on: on-panel feats. The bottom line is that the Surfer has displayed feats way beyond Flash's and would crush him in battle.
No, your reasoning is completely flawed. Why the hell would the power cosmic not exist or be severely limited in the DC universe while the speed force would be completely unaltered in the Marvel Universe?
My reasoning is this: The power cosmic is galacus power of which a small portion is only extended to the silver surfer. It is a power that can be lent and taken away by will. SS would have no powers if there weren't a galactus to enable them, and there are no galacus in the DC universe.
The source of flash powers, the speed force, is a fundamental force of the universe, very similar to marvels concept of abstracts.
Galactus is the most powerful being imbued with the power cosmic, but he's not the source of the power cosmic. If he was to suddenly disappear, the Surfer would retain his power, so to repeat myself, your reasoning is flawed.
On September 14 2011 19:46 VoirDire wrote: Your argument regarding Flash being an abstract in the Marvel universe is groundless anyway, because Flash has never displayed feats that would indicate he'd be an abstract. And that's exactly what such theoretical battles are supposed to be based on: on-panel feats. The bottom line is that the Surfer has displayed feats way beyond Flash's and would crush him in battle. I never argued that flash was an abstract, I said that one could argue that since flash is the embodiment of a fundamental cosmic force in the DC universe, that could be translated to him being an abstract in the marvel universe.
While I agree that on-panel displayed feats should be the basis of the extent of someones powers, one must consider that their super powers are hard to compare, as they are based on fundamentally different universes with different rule sets. If you start comparing certain powers closely, you get weird paradoxes.
Not in this case. You get one guy who's more powerful (the Surfer) and one guy who would get defeated (Flash).
On September 14 2011 19:46 VoirDire wrote: In a DC universe (governed by special relativity), the speed of light is the maximum theoretical speed, in a Marvel universe (Newtonian) it's an arbitrary number.
When flash accelerates to the speed of light, everything would not only seem to stand still in comparison to his fast speed. It would literary stand completely still as he have effectively frozen time. How would one perceive someone moving at twice the speed of light in a newtonian universe (as the silver surfer can do) in this situation?
The DC universe has seen multiple characters travel faster than the speed of light - it's therefore not the maximum theoretical speed.
Just wanted to step in here to set two things straight:
If Galactus would disappear, the Marvel Universe would disappear. That's actually one of the reasons why nobody dares to nuke him (the other being that he's incredibly resilient).
The speed barriers in DC worlds are sound barrier<light barrier<dimensional barrier<speed force barrier. Silver Age Superman once almost flew into Heaven by accident because he went so fast. Superman, Flash, and many others have time-travelled by means of speed. Even before Barry was retconned into an embodiment of the Speed Force, he ran at 300.000.000.000 times the speed of light. So, to sum up, if one were to say that these feats are occuring within realms governed by relativity theory, I'd call that a pretty creative interpretation of Einstein.
Notably, Flash has appeared twice (as far as I know) in the Marvel Universe by now. Before all the Speed Force stuff, he did sort of a Cameo (and was never referred to by name) and curbstomped all competition in a race which established him as "the fastest man in the world" for both Universes. Later, in one of the DC vs. Marvel spinoffs, he lost his connection to the Speed Force - because there is no such thing in the Marvel continuity - and lost a race to fucking Quicksilver.
Good post. Just to make it clear, Galactus' existing is indeed vital to the universe because he keeps Abraxas in check (notably), but my point was that the Silver Surfer would not lose his powers if Galactus was to suddenly disappear, as VoirDire was arguing.
The more posts I read in this thread, the more I think some of you guys are really taking this thing a bit too serious... We're still talking about comics here, a universe that can be changed any second at will of the respective writers. Next thing you know Superman Prime or Jean Grey might be total jokes because someone decides the universe/multi-verse they live in is only a tiny part of a much bigger universe with its own and much more powerful heroes.
Which universe is the "real" one anyway? Marvel? DC? A shared universe between both? Maybe you catch my drill.....
On September 15 2011 05:15 Ermac wrote: The more posts I read in this thread, the more I think some of you guys are really taking this thing a bit too serious... We're still talking about comics here, a universe that can be changed any second at will of the respective writers. Next thing you know Superman Prime or Jean Grey might be total jokes because someone decides the universe/multi-verse they live in is only a tiny part of a much bigger universe with its own and much more powerful heroes.
Which universe is the "real" one anyway? Marvel? DC? A shared universe between both? Maybe you catch my drill.....
The topic is not as important as the argument.
What is fun is the discussion of normally uncorrelated subjects and attempting to draw conclusions from them.
If it was SC2 v BW, there would be a flame fest
Same if it was Liberal vs Conservative vs Anarchistic vs Dictatorial
etc...
Comic Book superheroes are safe subjects to talk about and have a lot of paperwork evidence to back up your claim. Jean Grey already isn't "all that" because the Phoenix force has a hard time tackling Galactus.
The point is that having "what if" arguments with non serious topics is fun
On September 15 2011 05:15 Ermac wrote: The more posts I read in this thread, the more I think some of you guys are really taking this thing a bit too serious... We're still talking about comics here, a universe that can be changed any second at will of the respective writers. Next thing you know Superman Prime or Jean Grey might be total jokes because someone decides the universe/multi-verse they live in is only a tiny part of a much bigger universe with its own and much more powerful heroes.
Which universe is the "real" one anyway? Marvel? DC? A shared universe between both? Maybe you catch my drill.....
It´s all in good fun bro! Just like discussing possible scenarios of a hypothetical zombie apocalypse can sometimes be real fun the only people who take it too serious are the people who dont understand that everyone knows it´s a silly thing to discuss.
Ps, the Falcon would crush the enterprise in seconds.
Superman stops being a pussy. Travels the universe for forever and comes back as Supermanprime. Goku then dies. At will. Supermanprime is onmipresent and a time traveller. Goku dies at will, in all moments of history past present future and in other dimensions, at will.
On September 15 2011 05:15 Ermac wrote: The more posts I read in this thread, the more I think some of you guys are really taking this thing a bit too serious... We're still talking about comics here, a universe that can be changed any second at will of the respective writers. Next thing you know Superman Prime or Jean Grey might be total jokes because someone decides the universe/multi-verse they live in is only a tiny part of a much bigger universe with its own and much more powerful heroes.
Which universe is the "real" one anyway? Marvel? DC? A shared universe between both? Maybe you catch my drill.....
Well, as the mere existence of shared characters like Captain Marvel or Captain Atom clearly shows, the different multiverses are obviously elements of the same omniverse and not at all intended to be mutually exclusive. So, basically, anything that's part of the canon is real - in the sense of its being inside the omniverse, in any continuity - unless it directly contradicts Word-of-God. But just because retconning via God may indeed occur it doesn't invalidate anything of the currently established canon as for now... just like retconning in "real life" (see e.g. the platypus or the dinosaurs).
Isn't Captain Marvel actually stronger than superman? I think that he is physically equal to superman but he also has magic powers, including a thunderbolt that was able to go fast enough to hit flash
On September 15 2011 08:00 scarper65 wrote: Isn't Captain Marvel actually stronger than superman? I think that he is physically equal to superman but he also has magic powers, including a thunderbolt that was able to go fast enough to hit flash
This is why thing like these are fun. Since there is evidence that both your statements are true. YOU have to argue which of the contradicting evidence is the most true.
For example--Batman beat superman in Dark Knight Returns with a combination of supersonic sound waves, kryptonite and old fashion ass-kicking only sparing superman by faking his own death.
Does that mean Batman > Superman?
Because someone else finds evidence somewhere else and so on and so forth and the fun times continue
For example, at some points Hulk's strength is merely understood as "the strongest" and at some points it's very very specific like when he has to use two hands to throw a bus, or when he can't even outmatch Ultron.
The game is taking all these contradictions and weave it into something interesting and "truthy"
On September 15 2011 13:45 scarper65 wrote: Is there anyone that can move as fast or faster than flash? If not then I don't see how he can possibly be defeated
Move faster?
Lots of characters are omnipresent. Flash moves somewhere? Too late, Supermanprime is already there and has always been there.
As for speed alone? Silver Surfer moves as fast and possibly faster. (This is where a lot of the arguments come from)
There is no one faster (at moving) than flash in the DC universe. But when you mix in multiple canons together, superheroes and villains start bumping into each other's turf of "best at ______"
Finally managed to read properly about Superman Prime and not Superboy Prime. And as for his abilities WOW! http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Prime excerpt "Superman Prime is the second most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpassed by The Presence."
Flash may be the fastest from a point of measure of A-B but then Prime can theoretically disrupt/warp reality between A-B thereby removing flashes "measureable" speed advantage.
About the comparison between Thor and Hulk, I took this excerpt out from wikia
"While the Hulk was intended to be the physically strongest character in Marvel, Stan Lee admitted that the creation of Thor was to make a character who was "stronger than the Hulk, and smarter than Reed Richards, in a godly wisdom aspect." The subject over which titular hero is the strongest is the source of many debates between comic book fans."
You've got to be kidding me. That says Superman can only lift 100 tons.
Well, nope. Superman can lift 200 quadrillion tons with one arm. Meanwhile, Base Goku was struggling with 40 tons in the Buu Saga.
They didn't know about All Star Superman so they used what they knew to compare it.
Going by that logic, if you also look at how they "analyzed" Hulk, he was being compared with how many tonnage they could lift (per persona type) yet there are conflicting descriptions as the writer does try to be as creative with the character as best they can.
But hands down, Goku, especially the DBZ universe Goku, is no match for the heroes we are bringing up in this "supposed" common universe we are trying to setup for them.
What has happened so far (based on majority votes for the outcome of each battle)?
Ro16 (A) Doctor Manhattan < Goku Doctor Manhattan states that he does not intend to fight Goku, but unfortunately it will be inevitable. Goku makes a dumb face and accepts the challenge. When the fight actually starts, Manhatten throws pseudo-philosophical bullshit at Goku, while Goku charges up his Kamehameha for a few dozen episodes. Goku vaporizes Manhattan, not that it matter much. Slightly confused, Goku turns blonde, at which point Manhattan realizes that Chi consists of tachyons (yinions and yangiongs, to be precise), his only one weakness. While Goku is preparing his second attack, Manhattan leaves to the end of the universe to gain metaphysical insight into the true nature of existence, so Goku wins by forfeit. (B) The Batman < Hulk Banner tries to get away from the fighting scene as far as possible, and Bruce Wayne sponsors him a flight to the north pole. However, in an unfortunate turn of events... *cough* *cough* *cough* ... and when the fight actually starts, Hulk wreaks havoc to the whole city. The Batman confronts him, disguised as Betty, rolls Hulk to his back and starts fondling his belly until he turns into Banner. Then, Banner concedes defeat and tries to get away from the fighting scene as far as possible, and Bruce Wayne sponsors him a flight to the north pole... rinse and repeat, until the Hulk finally gets a blow in against the Batman.
(C) Flash < Mighty Thor Thor swirls Mjolnir at the speed of thought against the Flash. Barry sidesteps those slow-motion attacks ans hits Thor a couple thousand times, before he picks him up to carry him to the end of the universe. Thor lays down Mjolnir and holds on to its handle's loop, which turns him into an unmovable object for the Flash. A slightly confused Barry still manages to dodge some God Blasts and Thermo Blasts from Thor, before Thor uses the powers of Gaea to engulf Flash's shoes. The Flash vibrates himself free and outruns a few dozen thunderbolts Thor has thrown at him. When Barry starts running around Thor to create a tornado, Thor takes control of said tornado to throw the Flash into the air. Without traction, the Flash can only stare while Thor uses Mjolnir to create Anti-Force, draining the Flash's Speed Force. Then, Thor casually walks over to Barry and gently nudges his face with Mjolnir, knocking him unconscious. (D) Superman < Silver Surfer The battle of soliloquies starts. Am I humane? Too humane? Not humane enough? How much is left of the original [Norrin/Kal-El] after me becoming [Galactus' herold/the man of steel]? Must fight him. Must not endanger innocents. Must not repeat the events on [Zenn-La/Krypton]. Must... stop... thinking like a robot. Eventually, the Surfer is the first one to leave emo-stage and blasts Superman across town. Superman realizes that, surprisingly, the Power Cosmic gets past his invulnerability, so he mans up himself. After the usual cardboard speech, Supes punches the Surfer through a few dozen buildings, at which point we get the usual "Neither Hulk nor Thor hit that hard."-introspect from the Surfer. A battle of cosmic proportions ensues. Eventually, a severly battered and bruised Silver Surfer teleports Superman to the place of the cosmos where he will do the most good which, incidentally, is the village Mirik in Azerbaijan, from which Superman will not return until the end of the tournament.
(E) Sentry > Doctor Strange Steven Strange steps out of a dimensional portal behind the Sentry and vaporizes him with a force blast. Then, while Sentry reassembles himself (in a couple of seconds), Doctor Strange draws a magic circle around him and banishes him into nothingness. When Sentry gets back (a few seconds later), Doctor Strange uses an illusion to show Sentry what would happen if he'd unleash all his powers, completely stunning the Sentry (for a few seconds). Then, Doctor Strange conjures half a dozen demons to fight the Sentry, and a battle of Biblical proportions proceeds (in the next few seconds). Afterwards, the Sentry batters Steven Strange into submission with his own shoes.
(F) Wonder Woman < Jean Grey Wonder Woman ferociously attacks Jean Grey with a flurry of devastating blows until Jean snaps and inadvertently consumes the life force of everybody within the city (including Wonder Woman's). In the aftermath of this destruction, we see Jean Grey blankly staring at the liveless husk of her opponent; slowly she begins to realize what she has done, and eventually she suffers a complete emotional breakdown. (G) Green Lantern < Spawn Spawn tries to assassinate Green Lantern with a crossbow shooting yellow arrows made of wood. However, despite all odds, Green Lantern survives and starts to beat Spawn up real bad, all the while appealing to Spawn's good side, and trying to make him realize that he hasn't to obey Malebolgia... Spawn does not stand a chance until he taps into the powers of hell to teleport inside Green Lantern to "play alien". (H) Captain Marvel > Lobo Lobo cheats and kills Captain Marvel during the preparation week. Then Lobo gets disqualified from the tournament, and Captain Marvel is declared winner at his funeral.
So, now we're at:
Ro8 (I) Goku vs. Hulk (J) Mighty Thor vs. Silver Surfer (K) Sentry vs. Jean Grey (L) Spawn walkover
Semifinals (M) winner I vs. winner J (N) winner K vs. winner L
Haha Flash doesn't need traction to move. He literally ran along time itself before. The only reason he ever needs to run along the ground is when he's limiting himself to actual normal human running -- which you can't do considering you're giving Thor his absolute strongest Odin Force endowed abilities.
Also I like how people are saying anyone can be as fast or faster than Flash. Flash is whatever fastness you can go. The entire concept is embodied in him. You can't move faster than him because, that speed that you are going IS him, and he can go faster than it.
Also someone brought up Captain Cold earlier: Well, yeah, lots of super heroes in older comics have fought pretty underwhelming dudes. Flash also beat superboy prime and the anti-life equation because "goes fast."
(A) Doctor Manhattan < Goku Doctor Manhattan states that he does not intend to fight Goku, but unfortunately it will be inevitable. Goku makes a dumb face and accepts the challenge. When the fight actually starts, Manhatten throws pseudo-philosophical bullshit at Goku, while Goku charges up his Kamehameha for a few dozen episodes. Goku vaporizes Manhattan, not that it matter much. Slightly confused, Goku turns blonde, at which point Manhattan realizes that Chi consists of tachyons (yinions and yangiongs, to be precise), his only one weakness. While Goku is preparing his second attack, Manhattan leaves to the end of the universe to gain metaphysical insight into the true nature of existence, so Goku wins by forfeit.
(B) The Batman < Hulk Banner tries to get away from the fighting scene as far as possible, and Bruce Wayne sponsors him a flight to the north pole. However, in an unfortunate turn of events... *cough* *cough* *cough* ... and when the fight actually starts, Hulk wreaks havoc to the whole city. The Batman confronts him, disguised as Betty, rolls Hulk to his back and starts fondling his belly until he turns into Banner. Then, Banner concedes defeat and tries to get away from the fighting scene as far as possible, and Bruce Wayne sponsors him a flight to the north pole... rinse and repeat, until the Hulk finally gets a blow in against the Batman.
Srry, but this is the biggest bullshit in this thread Ive seen so far...
On September 16 2011 00:29 TwoToneTerran wrote: Haha Flash doesn't need traction to move. He literally ran along time itself before.
Admittedly, DC has been very inconsistent with the speedster's powers. However, in the fight between the different incarnations of the Flash and the Reverse-Flash in The Flash: Rebirth (2009, can't remeber which issue, but it's towards the end of the mini-series, so probably no. 5 or 6), a speedster without traction is shown to be a sitting duck, unable to defend himself even against an attack travelling only at the speed of sound.
Goku. Both my favourite and the strongest. I mean he came back from the dead to punch a guy beating his son in the face. Note, I'm mostly referring to the original, Japanese Goku who genuinely is lovely, not SEAN SCHEMMEL who suffers from terminal constipation.
Not only is he a lovely, simple guy and obscenely stronger than pretty much everyone, but he's also a decent father too.
Well propably some omnipotent guy, like Dr. Manhattan, Thor, Superman Prime or something. Though I fancy the concept of Goku just raging his way through cosmic destruction and magic bolts, lolol.
On September 16 2011 05:57 Evangelist wrote: Goku. Both my favourite and the strongest. I mean he came back from the dead to punch a guy beating his son in the face. Note, I'm mostly referring to the original, Japanese Goku who genuinely is lovely, not SEAN SCHEMMEL who suffers from terminal constipation.
Not only is he a lovely, simple guy and obscenely stronger than pretty much everyone, but he's also a decent father too.
Lets see. We need one that 1)is Kickass 2)is Bold 3)likes to use terrible one-liners throughout every fight 4)Damn good looks would be a plus Buffy, hands down
I might have to go with Peter Petrelli on this one, original Peter before being nerfed by the idiotic replacement writers. He could literally replicate the power of any person who came near him. Seems hard to beat someone who as all your powers plus all the powers of anyone he met before you. The best you could hope for is even footing.
"Superman Prime is the second most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpassed by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes.
Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality. "
~http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Prime
It's not even a question as to who is the best. The answer is Superman Prime, as he is defined as being the best (besides The Presence, which I don't think is really applicable here, but that's up for debate).
I'm not sure i understand votes for Flash, i mean, he's fast and all, but nowhere near as fast Hot_Bid, who has the power to exist in all places simultaneously to photobomb unsuspecting people.
On October 18 2011 13:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: "Superman Prime is the second most powerful being that has ever existed in the DC multiverse only surpassed by The Presence. He has acquired countless powers and abilities from his travels and lineage that allow him to do almost anything he wishes, which range from teleportation to the manipulation of magic and warping reality. He can manipulate time, space, matter, and bend reality on almost any scale he wishes.
Creation - Superman Prime is able to create lifeforms out of nothing.
Resurrection - Superman Prime can resurrect the dead.
Omniscience - Superman Prime has possibly learned everything in his time in the sun.
Omnipotence - Superman prime has near limitless abilties as far as we can see.
Omnipresent - Superman Prime can be any where at any time.
All Kryptonian powers under a Yellow Sun. All of his Kryptonian powers are enhanced.
Godlike Super strength - His strength is limitless, he is capable of lifting the Omniverse.
Godlike Super speed - His speed is incomprehensible to even the abstract beings.
Godlike Super Senses
Godlike Xray vision - He can see through any solid object, with no exceptions.
Godlike Heat vision - A million times hotter than the center of the sun.
Godlike Super Stamina/Endurance - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Invulnerability - Capable of surviving the end of the Multiverse.
Godlike Super Hearing - Cosmic Awareness.
Immortality - Superman Prime, will live until the end of Reality. "
~http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Prime
It's not even a question as to who is the best. The answer is Superman Prime, as he is defined as being the best (besides The Presence, which I don't think is really applicable here, but that's up for debate).
Honorable mentions: The Flash and Silver Surfer.
That's such a dumb concept to create a superhero and define him as omnipotent in anyway imaginable.
Favorite would have to be Batman or Rorschach. Sure, Batman could use his vast fortune on solving world hunger and poverty instead of crime-fighting shit; but fuck that. Batman and Rorschach are kind of the two heroes I can relate to the most. Plus, they're the most badass in my opinion.
Dr. Manhattan is the strongest, though. Well maybe not the strongest in physical strength, but he can kill anyone and everyone he wants to at a mere whim. And, he probably could become the strongest physically, just because he's fucking Dr. Manhattan. He's as close to a god as rationally possible (and by "rationally possible," I mean he isn't truly omnipotent in the fact that he can't create a rock so big he can't move it; yada yada paradoxes).
Not only can he dismantle someone into individual molecules, but the only way to "kill" him is putting him into an "Intrinsic Field Subtractor." Even then, he'll just reassemble himself. Really can't fathom how anyone could beat Dr. Manhattan.
On October 18 2011 14:58 Grndr101 wrote: Well you have to give credit to Deadpool, he's the only guy who even suspects he's trapped in a comicbook.
Agreed. All hail the Merc with a Mouth. Besides, He's "died" more times than most, (even total incineration) just to pop back up happy to still talk in yellow speech bubbles.
my friends and i had a tournament which we matched every single superhero against each other. Beside it being great fun, we found out that the strongest hero is Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen
Best super hero is Batman. His character is deep, he has human flaws, emotion and not a single super-human ability. With enough training, equipment, money and willpower anyone of us could do what Batman does. Thats adds another level of depth to the character.
Strongest hero is Superman Prime. He one step below God in every possible way.
Thanos is the man. Although he's not a hero, he's definitely been an anti hero enough times to qualify as one.
He's a beast in his natural form, but the few forces that can defeat him in his natural form... he makes up for that disadvantage with his rediculous knowledge.
It's been stated quite a few times (by characters other than himself) that the only reason he has lost in the past is because he allowed it to happen.
There's a reason that he's been in so many encounters where the most powerful forces had to team up together to try to stop him. There's a reason that when theres a new super powerful villain that they don't think they will be able to stop, they go to Thanos as the anti hero knowing that they are going to be screwed in the end but that's their only choice.
I can't think of any character that has been in more high-scale conflicts than Thanos. He's been the most consistent villain/anti hero since the 90's, been involved in the most major story arcs, and even up to today he's still dominant.
Anyone who says chars like Superman Prime are the strongest must not be aware of the strongest forces/entities in the Marvel universe, and missed the multiple times that Thanos took them all out at once. He's actually been just as if not more powerful than a god a number of times. Superman Prime never actually *was* reality itself. Thanos was that and more, numerous times.
1) Luffy - you can't hate this stretchy guy.. hes just so adorable and lovable and i love him 2) Goku - superman has a chance, but goku will win in the end because superman is a pussy and he doesn't kill his enemies.. and saiyans get stronger everytime they are near death
On September 14 2011 11:44 FusionMrWet wrote: The men and women who work 3-4 jobs to put food on the table for their kids, the men and women who are single parents and go to college while also paying the bills, the people who make the United Stated the beautiful (it has its flaws), and amazing country it is.
what about the people in other countries who do that
Kinda anticlimatic. What`s awesome about them when there are people who work 1 job, earn multiple times more than them and enjoy doing it and their life - and also they are giving their kids an example of a life worth living, while the ones you mentioned give an example of a dry, survival-based life and often force their kids to follow or make them feel guilty and ashamed. Sersiously, what`s so awesome about them...they surely do have a will to live, to not give up and sustain a family and that`s respectable but other than that they are kind of sad.
By no means to criticise them but in some way, some of them are even opposites of a superhero because they often preach about life and their way of life and in doing so, unwittingly encourage others to join and share their misery because they cannot face their own shortcomings. Again, by no means a criticism but there isn`t much of heroic values in it. And they aren`t the kind of people who make United States, or other countries for that matter, as you put it, beautiful and amazing unless you are so domesticated in limitation that it is how you define words amazing and beautiful. Besides, humanity is yet to see beautiful and amazing countries. To use these words like this is to pollute their meaning (btw sorry if it is a little bit off topic).
1) Favourite: Venom, he was so awesome to watch when I was a kid =]
On October 24 2011 07:56 koolaid1990 wrote: 2) Goku ....... and saiyans get stronger everytime they are near death
You have to wonder. Saiyans get stronger every time they almost die. Earth has sensu beans and, more importantly later in DBZ, Dende (that young Namekian kid) that can heal them.
So during a slow period, why didn't Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan get together every morning in a three way mexican standoff formation and blow the shit out of each other to near death? Have Dende heal you, get up, brush yourself off and say "gg guys, same time tomorrow?"
After a year or two of that you can pretty much sunder any evil guy that shows up talking shit using just your little toe.
On October 24 2011 07:56 koolaid1990 wrote: 2) Goku ....... and saiyans get stronger everytime they are near death
You have to wonder. Saiyans get stronger every time they almost die. Earth has sensu beans and, more importantly later in DBZ, Dende (that young Namekian kid) that can heal them.
So during a slow period, why didn't Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan get together every morning in a three way mexican standoff formation and blow the shit out of each other to near death? Have Dende heal you, get up, brush yourself off and say "gg guys, same time tomorrow?"
After a year or two of that you can pretty much sunder any evil guy that shows up talking shit using just your little toe.
I'm so nerdy that I've spent a lot of time thinking about it... really, though, the explanation seems to be that nearly dying in battle and then recovering raises them to their maximum strength. But if they were to do it again without getting any stronger in between, it wouldn't help much.
After the Frieza saga it seems like they pretty much left that near death thing behind, though. Seems like a plot device that wasn't as interesting as training montages.
On October 24 2011 07:56 koolaid1990 wrote: 2) Goku ....... and saiyans get stronger everytime they are near death
You have to wonder. Saiyans get stronger every time they almost die. Earth has sensu beans and, more importantly later in DBZ, Dende (that young Namekian kid) that can heal them.
So during a slow period, why didn't Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan get together every morning in a three way mexican standoff formation and blow the shit out of each other to near death? Have Dende heal you, get up, brush yourself off and say "gg guys, same time tomorrow?"
After a year or two of that you can pretty much sunder any evil guy that shows up talking shit using just your little toe.
I'm so nerdy that I've spent a lot of time thinking about it... really, though, the explanation seems to be that nearly dying in battle and then recovering raises them to their maximum strength. But if they were to do it again without getting any stronger in between, it wouldn't help much.
After the Frieza saga it seems like they pretty much left that near death thing behind, though. Seems like a plot device that wasn't as interesting as training montages.
LOL! :D Guess Im not the only nerd out there thinking about stuff like that, I guess they left it behind for plotsakes.
My favourite at the moment has to be Green Lantern but only because I just watched the movie and like the hero is designed. I gotta admit that I was never really into your "american" superheroes from Marvel and DC Universes, only watched the series a few movies of course when I was little. But when I started to research a bit more on the whole topc lately I was kinda overwhelmed how complex both of them are. Only reading a wikipage of one single Superhero might take a few ours^^
And someone posted a powerlist from the marveluniverse here in this thread and after I watched the "thor" Movie I was thinking: WTF Thor's so broken compared to the others in the upcoming avengers movie ^^ but the first name on the list I recognized was ODIN, a godfather! and he's only 11th ranked tier. What the hell^^
Anyway I grew up with the eastern heroes so Goku and Luffy ftwww
On September 10 2011 04:47 mints wrote: 1. My favorite is Superman, because he's the most unique. He was born Superman and his cape is his actual everyday outfit. His alterego/costume is Clark Kent, with the suit and glasses. He's an actual superhero by nature, whereas Batman is just a guy dressing up as a bat...
2. Superman, no other superhero would even touch Superman. Oh Batman is holding a piece of Kryptonite? Ok, Superman just flies high in the sky and would use his thermal lances to melt Batman. GG. Seriously, Superman is the god superheroes. He can easily avoid anything with his super speed, and would see anything coming his way with his xray vision.
3. Batman creates some sort of cryptonite-emanating device which has a range of several miles. Weakens all supermen within a 20 mile radius? GG bitch. You actually forgot that Batman is a genius. O . O
(doesnt have to be my idea. cryptonite machine gun, cryptonite laser, photon cannon. Kryptonite seeker missile with a diamond ((unbreakable)) hull. whatever.)
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