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On September 12 2011 22:36 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 22:32 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 12 2011 22:29 kwizach wrote:On September 12 2011 22:26 TwoToneTerran wrote:
That's the problem, he isn't a match to Flash's speed. Flash is embodiment of speed -- he can, by merely existing, remove all of Surfer's speed and ability to move. The Speed Force manipulation is varied and ridiculous and it's why I think picking superheroes at this "level" comes down to bias. Both have shown that they can beat practically omnipotent super beings before, but are both limited only by their writers and character flaws. (Flash is a goof, Silver Surfer is really emotional) How the hell isn't he a match to Flash's speed? Post some evidence to support your argument instead of spouting the same nonsense post after post. You have yet to post a single scan or piece of evidence/data that would indicate that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer. I have also already explained how even if the Surfer was STATIC, Flash's speed would not save him. You're completely missing my point. When fighting Flash, you have no speed. That's just one of Flash's inherent abilities. Unless Silver Surfer is completely immune to the speed force, he has no ability to move or act. Just like how, unless Flash is completely immune to the power cosmic, Surfer can turn him into a nematoad. Phenomenal, unreasonable powers are just that -- unreasonable. I don't have a fucking resource of scanned photos, but manipulation of all things speed is something you can look up on Wiki. If Surfer is susceptible to it, he becomes a useless statue to Flash. You are the one claiming that Flash would be able to completely immobilize the Surfer. POST SOME EVIDENCE. Why should I be the one looking on wiki for the evidence supporting your claim?
Speed lend/steal - Perhaps his most versatile new power. Because the Speed Force governed all motion, Wally could rob objects of their kinetic energy, motion, or momentum (e.g., bullets in flight or turning a supervillain into a statue) and use the energy to accelerate himself even faster. He could similarly lend speed to inanimate objects or allies, enabling them to temporarily travel nearly as fast as himself. Bart Allen's future self is shown to also have this ability in the Teen Titans Titans Tomorrow story arc.
The frame of reference for this is, in one story, The Flash (the non-superpowered embodiment of the speed force one) completely froze every superhero in the entirety of the earth in one comic and robbed them of all action of any kind. This included thought, powers, anything. And this is every hero, even the resistant invincible ones like superman, and the magic using ones. It's just one of his many dumb, speed force based powers that essentially making him limitlessly powerful (like how the speed force is motion and motion is energy and energy is matter so now flash has matter manipulation and that's how he makes his costume and magical suits of armor and explodes a guy's brain because it's governed by motion).
There's no limit to either of these guy's powers, and it's why I think it's a wash when you're trying to say who wins. Does The Silver Surfer do things at all? Well he's in the realm of the speed force's governance! Is the Flash existent? Well he too can be ruined by the power cosmic. Vague, overpowered nonsense, it's how they beat godlike beings.
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On September 12 2011 22:41 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 22:36 kwizach wrote:On September 12 2011 22:32 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 12 2011 22:29 kwizach wrote:On September 12 2011 22:26 TwoToneTerran wrote:
That's the problem, he isn't a match to Flash's speed. Flash is embodiment of speed -- he can, by merely existing, remove all of Surfer's speed and ability to move. The Speed Force manipulation is varied and ridiculous and it's why I think picking superheroes at this "level" comes down to bias. Both have shown that they can beat practically omnipotent super beings before, but are both limited only by their writers and character flaws. (Flash is a goof, Silver Surfer is really emotional) How the hell isn't he a match to Flash's speed? Post some evidence to support your argument instead of spouting the same nonsense post after post. You have yet to post a single scan or piece of evidence/data that would indicate that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer. I have also already explained how even if the Surfer was STATIC, Flash's speed would not save him. You're completely missing my point. When fighting Flash, you have no speed. That's just one of Flash's inherent abilities. Unless Silver Surfer is completely immune to the speed force, he has no ability to move or act. Just like how, unless Flash is completely immune to the power cosmic, Surfer can turn him into a nematoad. Phenomenal, unreasonable powers are just that -- unreasonable. I don't have a fucking resource of scanned photos, but manipulation of all things speed is something you can look up on Wiki. If Surfer is susceptible to it, he becomes a useless statue to Flash. You are the one claiming that Flash would be able to completely immobilize the Surfer. POST SOME EVIDENCE. Why should I be the one looking on wiki for the evidence supporting your claim? It would've been faster to type 3 words into google than making that post. Flash can immobilize SS.
I don't think so, no. Be my guest and prove me wrong, I'm waiting.
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On September 12 2011 22:42 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 22:36 kwizach wrote:On September 12 2011 22:32 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 12 2011 22:29 kwizach wrote:On September 12 2011 22:26 TwoToneTerran wrote:
That's the problem, he isn't a match to Flash's speed. Flash is embodiment of speed -- he can, by merely existing, remove all of Surfer's speed and ability to move. The Speed Force manipulation is varied and ridiculous and it's why I think picking superheroes at this "level" comes down to bias. Both have shown that they can beat practically omnipotent super beings before, but are both limited only by their writers and character flaws. (Flash is a goof, Silver Surfer is really emotional) How the hell isn't he a match to Flash's speed? Post some evidence to support your argument instead of spouting the same nonsense post after post. You have yet to post a single scan or piece of evidence/data that would indicate that Flash is faster than the Silver Surfer. I have also already explained how even if the Surfer was STATIC, Flash's speed would not save him. You're completely missing my point. When fighting Flash, you have no speed. That's just one of Flash's inherent abilities. Unless Silver Surfer is completely immune to the speed force, he has no ability to move or act. Just like how, unless Flash is completely immune to the power cosmic, Surfer can turn him into a nematoad. Phenomenal, unreasonable powers are just that -- unreasonable. I don't have a fucking resource of scanned photos, but manipulation of all things speed is something you can look up on Wiki. If Surfer is susceptible to it, he becomes a useless statue to Flash. You are the one claiming that Flash would be able to completely immobilize the Surfer. POST SOME EVIDENCE. Why should I be the one looking on wiki for the evidence supporting your claim? Speed lend/steal - Perhaps his most versatile new power. Because the Speed Force governed all motion, Wally could rob objects of their kinetic energy, motion, or momentum (e.g., bullets in flight or turning a supervillain into a statue) and use the energy to accelerate himself even faster. He could similarly lend speed to inanimate objects or allies, enabling them to temporarily travel nearly as fast as himself. Bart Allen's future self is shown to also have this ability in the Teen Titans Titans Tomorrow story arc. The frame of reference for this is, in one story, The Flash (the non-superpowered embodiment of the speed force one) completely froze every superhero in the entirety of the earth in one comic and robbed them of all action of any kind. This included thought, powers, anything. And this is every hero, even the resistant invincible ones like superman, and the magic using ones. It's just one of his many dumb, speed force based powers that essentially making him limitlessly powerful (like how the speed force is motion and motion is energy and energy is matter so now flash has matter manipulation and that's how he makes his costume and magical suits of armor and explodes a guy's brain because it's governed by motion). There's no limit to either of these guy's powers, and it's why I think it's a wash when you're trying to say who wins. Does The Silver Surfer do things at all? Well he's in the realm of the speed force's governance! Is the Flash existent? Well he too can be ruined by the power cosmic. Vague, overpowered nonsense, it's how they beat godlike beings.
I don't see how this power would be effective in any way against a wielder of the power cosmic like the Silver Surfer. The power cosmic is a greater force than the speed force, and the Surfer's mastery of energy would prevent him from getting robbed of his kinetic energy. He is in fact also able to absorb energy. This particular power of Flash would therefore not affect the Surfer, while Flash would very much so be affected by everything the Surfer could target him with.
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Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too.
It's bias, plain and simple.
Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero? 
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Marvel Zombies is the best series.
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Obviously skout.
![[image loading]](http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m608/xmdjsa2/scout_hon.jpg)
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On September 12 2011 23:10 D4V3Z02 wrote:Obviously skout.
scoot? he creeps and stalks the crap out of superman and goku!
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On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too. It's bias, plain and simple. Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero?
The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer.
No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot.
On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote:
Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series.
Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
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Strongest is definitely Mewtwo.
He can use psychic
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SupermanPrime's weakness is that he isn't "the presence" which means he's not the author of comic books. Which means he has no weakness. Name a power, any power, too late, superman prime already has it. And his power is better than yours. He's also omnipresent and is a time traveler. So he's also in your past and your future at the same time. Goku fights him as a dragon god? Baby goku just died--no more goku. The flash wants speed force supermanprime? Too late, supermanprime already has the speedforce too.
Is supermanprime a godlike being? No, he's Clark Kent finally realizing that it sucked to be human and to just stop holding himself back.
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Also, the correct answer is Jean Grey as The Fenix. Because fenix is in bw and Phoenix is existence.
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On September 12 2011 23:13 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 22:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:Now you're just making stuff up. You have no logical or pertinent reason to say the Power Cosmic is stronger than the Speed Force (remember, the Flash froze many DC heroes who are masters of energy like captain atom and whatnot). This is why they're not comparable. You can't just assume the silver surfer is immune to the speed force when he gets shot by laser beams and getting hit with rocks and it works all the time -- which is why you can't say the flash is immune to anything the silver surfer can do because he gets affected by things beneath him all the time, too. It's bias, plain and simple. Let me guess, SS is your favorite superhero? The particular power you have put forward is essentially energy robbing. The Silver Surfer is a character who has displayed feats of energy manipulation that go way beyond what you just described, is himself capable of energy absorption and has resisted countless energy absorbers in the past. Since the two characters are not part of the same multiverse you need to use logic and compare the powers - you can't simply claim that because Flash's power worked on every hero on his Earth, it would work on the Silver Surfer. The feats displayed by the Silver Surfer with regards to energy manipulation strongly suggest he is extremely resistant to energy absorption. The feats displayed by the Flash do not suggest in any way that he would be even remotely resistant to the Surfer attacks. Any unbiased observer would therefore logically go with the Surfer. No, he is not my favorite superhero - not by a long shot. Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 23:03 zeru wrote:
Also, silver surfer was killed in marvel zombies series. Marvel Zombies = Earth-2149. This is therefore not the Silver Surfer I'm talking about, which is from the Earth-616 universe.
Like I said, unless you think Silver Surfer is more resistant to the speed force than every single DC superhero (which is just silly), it could forseeably work. Why wouldn't a fundamental force of the universe affect Surfer? Punches affect him, energy beams affect him, he's been hit and hurt by many things that he should be able to shoe off with energy manipulation, but he didn't because maybe he's not as omnipowerful as you're suggesting. It's not a logical conclusion, it's a skeptical conclusion without real reference.
If they're both unsurpassable masters of their respective powers (allen is since he became the speed force, I'm pretty sure the SS's abilities are practically unlimited in this sense too), it's just about saying which one is stronger: The Speed Force, or The Power Cosmic? It's a baseless, speculative guess.
Also, way to take the marvel zombies post seriously. Lighten up, man!
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Kind of hard to judge who the strongest would be since there are so many that have god-like powers, but as for superheroes that ARENT god, I think Rogue of the X-men (after taking Mrs Marvels powers) has a pretty fair chance against all other super heroes/villians
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My Fav has to Tony Stark/ Ironman Billionaire playboy who has a drink problem and the fact that his armour was to keep him alive orginaly. his orginal weakness was the amount of energy his chest piece had in it with it having to be charged, Which also lead to him having to wear the whole mark 3 "Classic" for a while down to the heart not being able to cope with out the extra power from it..
but the Strongest has to be Son Goku, the man has a child like innoccence, he happend to be the worlds strongest man in his universe. but he also keeps working to improve himself, that and the fact he is a very skilled fighter
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On September 12 2011 23:34 zeru wrote:
Is there anyone stronger than Galactus though? Because I'm trying to come up with someone, but no success.
edit; i guess Eternity / Infinity
Galactus at full strength is essentially one of the forces that holds the universe together. He's as much a part of existence as gravity and physics. There are a great many things that are more powerful than galactus--but then we'd be in supermanprime/molecule man territory.
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EPT
