Republican nominations - Page 554

On March 16 2012 03:05 Focuspants wrote:


You would do yourself worlds of service to post links or sources to any of the claims you make.

Saying the republicans are more willing to go to war for things, isnt exactly being strong on foreign policy. The word "strong" in this case doesnt mean physically strong, as you seem to think it does. Obama has been incredible with foreign policy. It is probably his greatest strength. He knows how to engage the world, he has gained peoples respect, he relates to people well, and his handling of most foreign issues has been impecable. Resorting to threats and violence does not make you strong on foreign policy, it makes you a bully. Bush going into Iraq was a gigantic waste of time, resources, and most importantly, lives. Being ready to jump into a stupid pointless war should not be the definition of "patriotic" or "American".

As for the military budget cuts. Obama is specializing your military. You can save a bunch of money from cutting back on the excess and the outdated. Wars are fought differently now. Technology reigns supreme, and tactical special forces are way more effective than throwing tens of thousands of ground troops at your enemy. Cutting back on useless bases, reducing the size of the military, etc... will save you money. It also doesnt make you less safe. Investing your defence budget on things such as special forces training, R&D, drones, etc... Actually makes you more powerful. If you have a technological edge, and a training edge, you dont need the numbers edge. He is creating a more streamlined, but more specialized and technical military, which is far superior to just pure manpower. The whole hes cutting our military were unsafe line is a crock of shit. Dont forget, your Republican president was the one that got you into 2 wars, didnt catch Osama, and was in control during a terrorist attack on your soil. I think Obamas approach is far more effective.

On March 16 2012 03:17 Wegandi wrote:


Obama's approach is Bush's...their Foreign Policy is almost exactly the same. Obama has not proposed any cuts to the DoD budget, and in fact, has requested increases.

On March 16 2012 03:20 Focuspants wrote:


I think thats a bit unfair. If Obama were president during Bush's term, I couldnt fathom him deciding to go into Iraq. He also wants to handle Iran without going to war. Ill grant you that Obama is not a pacifist by any means, but he isnt the kind of guy to pointlessly walk into a country like Iraq based on a blatant lie. Hes smarter than that.

On March 16 2012 03:20 Focuspants wrote:


I think thats a bit unfair. If Obama were president during Bush's term, I couldnt fathom him deciding to go into Iraq. He also wants to handle Iran without going to war. Ill grant you that Obama is not a pacifist by any means, but he isnt the kind of guy to pointlessly walk into a country like Iraq based on a blatant lie. Hes smarter than that.

On March 16 2012 04:11 xDaunt wrote:
Ironically, I find less fault with Obama's foreign policy than any other aspect of his presidency. Yeah, he shit all over a lot of our allies (particularly Britain and Israel), and his decision to announce a withdrawal date in Afghanistan was criminally stupid, but his administration has otherwise been almost indistinguishable from Bush's. He has basically run his foreign policy like a republican would, which I know irks a lot of democrats and liberals.

On March 16 2012 05:00 Vega62a wrote:


Please do not just post unsubstantiated ad hominems.

In what way did he shit all over Britain and Israel?

In what way was announcing a withdrawal date any more or less useful than simply pulling out unannounced? And in what way is that better or worse than continuing there indefinitely?

His foreign policy has generally placed more emphasis on "soft power" than did Bush's. That's not to say he's always been effective in it - he should have been exercising this mode of soft power against Iran years ago - but he's also not been throwing our muscle around. What is similar is only that neither Bush nor Obama had any qualms with foreign entanglements.

On March 16 2012 03:33 Defacer wrote:


I actually think Obama is willing to go to war with Iran if necessary, but he's done a brilliant job of isolating Iran and eliminating any lingering sympathy or doubts the international community may have.

Bush starting a war in Iraq without proof of WMDs or support from the International community plunged the US into massive debt, and reinforced the perception that America is a meddlesome, arrogant selfish nation that only cared about their on self-interests (in this case, oil).

By being demonstrably diplomatic and reasonable -- or as xDaunt opines, going on a World Apology tour -- Obama restored the US's 'moral authority' and re-established their concerns with Iran's pursuit of a nuclear weapon as legitimate.

If Iran does get a nuclear weapon, they will look like the crazy ones, and every country will likely support US military action. He's put the US in a great position to go to war, if it comes down to that.

On March 16 2012 05:19 xDaunt wrote:

Why do I need to educate you on something that you should just know? It's no secret that the democrats are having trouble with the Jewish vote because of Obama's approach towards Israel. This was discussed ad nauseum when republicans won NY-9. Same thing with Britain. Hell, Kwark (British mod) even agreed with me at one point (I forget whether it was in this thread or elsewhere).

On March 16 2012 05:44 Vega62a wrote:


So your tactic is to make unsubstantiated claims, then claim "I should know already" when confronted about them?

Interesting...

Also, I'm pretty sure that if your statement about Kwark agreeing with you makes you feel like your claims are proven, you need to take a long, hard look at your standards of evidence.

On March 16 2012 05:59 xDaunt wrote:


I truly don't have time to educate people in this thread and fully brief my posts with citations to sources that support everything that I throw out, and I'm tired of people demanding that level of proof.

Go wallow in continued ignorance for all I care.

On March 16 2012 06:00 DamnCats wrote:


Does this mean I won't be receiving the links to a transcript or youtube video of a speech where Obama is apologizing for all sorts of nasty American things to a foreign audience?

1. Apology to France and Europe ("America Has Shown Arrogance")

Speech by President Obama, Rhenus Sports Arena, Strasbourg, France, April 3, 2009.[1]

So we must be honest with ourselves. In recent years we've allowed our Alliance to drift. I know that there have been honest disagreements over policy, but we also know that there's something more that has crept into our relationship. In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.

2. Apology to the Muslim World ("We Have Not Been Perfect")

President Obama, interview with Al Arabiya, January 27, 2009.[2]

My job to the Muslim world is to communicate that the Americans are not your enemy. We sometimes make mistakes. We have not been perfect. But if you look at the track record, as you say, America was not born as a colonial power, and that the same respect and partnership that America had with the Muslim world as recently as 20 or 30 years ago, there's no reason why we can't restore that.

3. Apology to the Summit of the Americas ("At Times We Sought to Dictate Our Terms")

President Obama, address to the Summit of the Americas opening ceremony, Hyatt Regency, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago, April 17, 2009.[3]

All of us must now renew the common stake that we have in one another. I know that promises of partnership have gone unfulfilled in the past, and that trust has to be earned over time. While the United States has done much to promote peace and prosperity in the hemisphere, we have at times been disengaged, and at times we sought to dictate our terms. But I pledge to you that we seek an equal partnership. There is no senior partner and junior partner in our relations; there is simply engagement based on mutual respect and common interests and shared values. So I'm here to launch a new chapter of engagement that will be sustained throughout my administration.

The United States will be willing to acknowledge past errors where those errors have been made.

4. Apology at the G-20 Summit of World Leaders ("Some Restoration of America's Standing in the World")

News conference by President Obama, ExCel Center, London, United Kingdom, April 2, 2009.[4]

I would like to think that with my election and the early decisions that we've made, that you're starting to see some restoration of America's standing in the world. And although, as you know, I always mistrust polls, international polls seem to indicate that you're seeing people more hopeful about America's leadership.

I just think in a world that is as complex as it is, that it is very important for us to be able to forge partnerships as opposed to simply dictating solutions. Just to try to crystallize the example, there's been a lot of comparison here about Bretton Woods. "Oh, well, last time you saw the entire international architecture being remade." Well, if there's just Roosevelt and Churchill sitting in a room with a brandy, that's an easier negotiation. But that's not the world we live in, and it shouldn't be the world that we live in.

5. Apology for the War on Terror ("We Went off Course")

President Obama, speech at the National Archives, Washington, D.C., May 21, 2009.[5]

Unfortunately, faced with an uncertain threat, our government made a series of hasty decisions. I believe that many of these decisions were motivated by a sincere desire to protect the American people. But I also believe that all too often our government made decisions based on fear rather than foresight; that all too often our government trimmed facts and evidence to fit ideological predispositions. Instead of strategically applying our power and our principles, too often we set those principles aside as luxuries that we could no longer afford. And during this season of fear, too many of us--Democrats and Republicans, politicians, journalists, and citizens--fell silent.

In other words, we went off course. And this is not my assessment alone. It was an assessment that was shared by the American people who nominated candidates for President from both major parties who, despite our many differences, called for a new approach--one that rejected torture and one that recognized the imperative of closing the prison at Guantanamo Bay.

6. Apology for Guantanamo in France ("Sacrificing Your Values")

Speech by President Obama, Rhenus Sports Arena, Strasbourg, France, April 3, 2009.[6]

Our two republics were founded in service of these ideals. In America, it is written into our founding documents as "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." In France: "Liberté"--absolutely--"egalité, fraternité." Our moral authority is derived from the fact that generations of our citizens have fought and bled to uphold these values in our nations and others. And that's why we can never sacrifice them for expedience's sake. That's why I've ordered the closing of the detention center in Guantanamo Bay. That's why I can stand here today and say without equivocation or exception that the United States of America does not and will not torture.

In dealing with terrorism, we can't lose sight of our values and who we are. That's why I closed Guantanamo. That's why I made very clear that we will not engage in certain interrogation practices. I don't believe that there is a contradiction between our security and our values. And when you start sacrificing your values, when you lose yourself, then over the long term that will make you less secure.

7. Apology before the Turkish Parliament ("Our Own Darker Periods in Our History")

Speech by President Obama to the Turkish Parliament, Ankara, Turkey, April 6, 2009.[7]

Every challenge that we face is more easily met if we tend to our own democratic foundation. This work is never over. That's why, in the United States, we recently ordered the prison at Guantanamo Bay closed. That's why we prohibited--without exception or equivocation--the use of torture. All of us have to change. And sometimes change is hard.

Another issue that confronts all democracies as they move to the future is how we deal with the past. The United States is still working through some of our own darker periods in our history. Facing the Washington Monument that I spoke of is a memorial of Abraham Lincoln, the man who freed those who were enslaved even after Washington led our Revolution. Our country still struggles with the legacies of slavery and segregation, the past treatment of Native Americans.

Human endeavor is by its nature imperfect. History is often tragic, but unresolved, it can be a heavy weight. Each country must work through its past. And reckoning with the past can help us seize a better future.

8. Apology for U.S. Policy toward the Americas ("The United States Has Not Pursued and Sustained Engagement with Our Neighbors")

Opinion editorial by President Obama: "Choosing a Better Future in the Americas," April 16, 2009.[8]

Too often, the United States has not pursued and sustained engagement with our neighbors. We have been too easily distracted by other priorities, and have failed to see that our own progress is tied directly to progress throughout the Americas. My Administration is committed to the promise of a new day. We will renew and sustain a broader partnership between the United States and the hemisphere on behalf of our common prosperity and our common security.

9. Apology for the Mistakes of the CIA ("Potentially We've Made Some Mistakes")

Remarks by the President to CIA employees, CIA Headquarters, Langley, Virginia, April 20, 2009.[9] The remarks followed the controversial decision to release Office of Legal Counsel memoranda detailing CIA enhanced interrogation techniques used against terrorist suspects.

So don't be discouraged by what's happened in the last few weeks. Don't be discouraged that we have to acknowledge potentially we've made some mistakes. That's how we learn. But the fact that we are willing to acknowledge them and then move forward, that is precisely why I am proud to be President of the United States, and that's why you should be proud to be members of the CIA.

10. Apology for Guantanamo in Washington ("A Rallying Cry for Our Enemies")

President Obama, speech at the National Archives, Washington, D.C., May 21, 2009.[10]

There is also no question that Guantanamo set back the moral authority that is America's strongest currency in the world. Instead of building a durable framework for the struggle against al Qaeda that drew upon our deeply held values and traditions, our government was defending positions that undermined the rule of law. In fact, part of the rationale for establishing Guantanamo in the first place was the misplaced notion that a prison there would be beyond the law--a proposition that the Supreme Court soundly rejected. Meanwhile, instead of serving as a tool to counter terrorism, Guantanamo became a symbol that helped al Qaeda recruit terrorists to its cause. Indeed, the existence of Guantanamo likely created more terrorists around the world than it ever detained.

So the record is clear: Rather than keeping us safer, the prison at Guantanamo has weakened American national security. It is a rallying cry for our enemies.

On March 16 2012 05:59 xDaunt wrote:


I truly don't have time to educate people in this thread and fully brief my posts with citations to sources that support everything that I throw out, and I'm tired of people demanding that level of proof.

Go wallow in continued ignorance for all I care.

On March 16 2012 06:06 xDaunt wrote:


See below. Taken in isolation, there's nothing wrong with any of the statements. However, when he's making these kinds of statements at every stop along the way, that's going to raise eyebrows and invite people to label his tour as a World Apology Tour.

On March 16 2012 06:06 xDaunt wrote:


See below. Taken in isolation, there's nothing wrong with any of the statements. However, when he's making these kinds of statements at every stop along the way, that's going to raise eyebrows and invite people to label his tour as a World Apology Tour.



http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2009/06/barack-obamas-top-10-apologies-how-the-president-has-humiliated-a-superpower

On March 16 2012 05:00 Vega62a wrote:

In what way did he shit all over Britain?

On March 16 2012 06:06 xDaunt wrote:


See below. Taken in isolation, there's nothing wrong with any of the statements. However, when he's making these kinds of statements at every stop along the way, that's going to raise eyebrows and invite people to label his tour as a World Apology Tour.



http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2009/06/barack-obamas-top-10-apologies-how-the-president-has-humiliated-a-superpower