On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
Liar
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
On January 13 2012 23:59 BobTheBuilder1377 wrote: @aksfjh So, how many times have I destroyed you in debates? 4? I still don't understand why you support our warmongering foreign policy which is pretty terrible.
To be honest you do not act very mature or like someone who has heard anything about any other candidtes from other sources than those approved by Evangelical Paulists. What I see in your "debates" with aksfjh is you strawmanning everything he says and adding a random Paul-video to boot.
As an outsider who would not rule Pauls ideas out on principle, I am getting to agree more and more with aksfjhs assesment about some of the people supporting Paul being too zealous and blind to any potential problems in what he says.
Sorry If I came off too strong. aksfjh has already said how much he dislikes Paul because he supports Obama. This makes us clash a lot in this forum. Not only that but, he supports American Imperialism which most people from the anti-war movement hate. I'm a part of that group and I don't agree with our foreign policy of being bullies to our neighboring countrymen. I think we should have a more humble approach in our foreign policy like the Swiss...Don't ya think?
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
Getting angry at supporters is kind of a cop out to be honest. Four years ago it was Obama who had a lot of rabbid online supporters and the Paul camp was smaller compared to the other side. Now four years later it's bigger and better because the message of peace and liberty is very popular with the youth group. Again, you should think and ask yourself why we need to bomb 3rd world countries to "spread democracy". Now that is what I call propaganda... Wou and the rest of the neoliberals with the neoconservatives have bought into the war machines bullshit. We don't need a huge empire that polices the world and pushes our ideals onto other people. :S
The Man Can't be bought off
There you go again. "Educate yourself" in a long winded way. I've posted many times in this topic, which suggests that I have thought and researched about these subjects to a great extent. At this point, you should know that I think about foreign military intervention very differently than your black and white assessment, and yet you persist.
Also, just as an aside, "peace and liberty" are words with such varying definitions and approaches that they are almost useless in discussing anything.
So, you don't believe in blowback? Let me give you a history lesson then on why the Japanese attacked us in Pearl Harbor:
So, Regarding economic factors in the start of the war: In the early 1930s the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, a tariff imposed on imports by the US, hit the Japanese textile industry very hard. The view of many Japanese politicians and pundits at the time was that the US had dragged Japan kicking and screaming into modern international trade and diplomacy in the mid-19th century (when the country was basically forced open by the arrival of Commodore Perry's "Black Ships"). Now, when Japan was desperately dependent on such trade in the midst of a global depression, the US was effectively cutting them off. Lives of terrible hardship became the norm for many, just as in Germany following WWI (though for different reasons). This in turn led to the idea that resources and "economic rights" for Japan could best be gained by having guaranteed overseas markets. Invasions on the Asian mainland were done with this end in mind, but it eventually lead to horrible consequences such as the bombing of Shanghai, the Rape of Nanking, and the use of Asian women in a system of sexual slavery (euphemistically known as "the comfort women").
It could be said that the war in China became "Japan's Vietnam," with the government's military-dominated cabinet refusing to withdraw in order to preserve their "credibility" (and thus their own careers). Finally, when they couldn't get petroleum needed to keep the war effort going, they decided to take it by force in an attack on Dutch Indo-China (now Indonesia) in December 1941 (Americans tend to focus on Pearl Harbor, but Pearl Harbor was, tactically speaking, just a flanking maneuver to prevent any possible American intervention). This is quite different from the popular view among apologists for the war that they were trying to "liberate" Asians from Western colonialism (though it is also erroneous to assume that Japan was trying to take over the entire Chinese mainland; they considered that to be impossible, and simply wanted guaranteed access to overseas resources & labor).
There was in fact a Japanese military / economic presence in China before all this "blew up" (since the 1931 annexation of Manchuria), but in 1937 the military-dominated cabinet decided to manufacture an "incident" of hostilities between Japanese and Chinese soldiers in order to whip up a bit of pro-military patriotism in Japan. It was meant to be timed for elections, as the generals and their political allies could see the electoral wind moving in favor of less military involvement in government. (Japan had had universal male suffrage since 1925, which continued throughout the war.) Unfortunately, the "incident" they were hoping to patch up after 6 weeks instead turned into World War II. Such exchanges of troop fire gad occurred before, but this time the Chinese in effect said "Nothing doing. Get out of our country." Things escalated from there. So it wasn't a plan to split the world in half with Germany, but a plan by politician-generals to keep themselves in power by (they thought) creating and manipulating a small military skirmish. (No less contemptible, though, as they were ready and willing for Japanese and Chinese soldiers to be maimed or killed as long as it served their own ends.)
Regarding Germany, the general consensus among historians is that the terms of the Treaty of Versailles were so onerous and so humiliating (e.g. massive monetary reparations to the victors), that the public was desperate for a "savior". This made it relatively easy for a diabolical, charismatic figure such as Hitler to take power with the promise of "fixing" Germany's problems.
Germany is an interesting contrast with Japan, as the latter was technically a victor nation in WWI (albeit with little participation), but then became Germany's ally in WWII. And Japan had no fascist-type political ideology; rather the government tried to pump up public support by emphasizing a sort of personality cult around the emperor. (Japanese fascists had in fact attempted to take over the government in 1936 in an attempted coup, but the attempt was quashed and all the participants were executed following closed-door military tribunals.)
Source - University courses in East Asian Studies & Japanese History
"Regarding Germany, the general consensus among historians is that the terms of the Treaty of Versailles ere so onerous and so humiliating (e.g. massive monetary reparations to the victors), that the public was desperate for a "savior". This made it relatively easy for a diabolical, charismatic figure such as Hitler to take power with the promise of "fixing" Germany's problems."
Yep. In addittion, at the start of the 20's, Germany said :"Sorry, but we just can't pay", so France invade the "Rhur" witch was one a the richest place for coal in Europe, raped, killed, and forced the poor Germany to buy coal outside of germany, even they couldn't afford it.
The 1929's crisis and the US protectionism affect them a bit too, like Japan.
Humiliation after humiliation, Deutsch Mark devaluation, poverty and starvation, the end of the story was pretty obvious
Don't know how the attempted genocide of a people was the obvious outcome. War, maybe. Not that, though.
Saying that no economic plan is better than Ron Paul's plan and that no economist supports RP is naive.
Here is a debate between Bob Murphy and Karl Smith (a highly regarded Keynsian mainstream economist) - you can judge who won and came trough as more credible by yourslef:
Either way, I can't see how you could possibly argue Bob Murphy is not an economist and he supports RP's plan.
On January 13 2012 23:59 BobTheBuilder1377 wrote: @aksfjh So, how many times have I destroyed you in debates? 4? I still don't understand why you support our warmongering foreign policy which is pretty terrible.
To be honest you do not act very mature or like someone who has heard anything about any other candidtes from other sources than those approved by Evangelical Paulists. What I see in your "debates" with aksfjh is you strawmanning everything he says and adding a random Paul-video to boot.
As an outsider who would not rule Pauls ideas out on principle, I am getting to agree more and more with aksfjhs assesment about some of the people supporting Paul being too zealous and blind to any potential problems in what he says.
Sorry If I came off too strong. aksfjh has already said how much he dislikes Paul because he supports Obama. This makes us clash a lot in this forum. Not only that but, he supports American Imperialism which most people from the anti-war movement hate. I'm a part of that group and I don't agree with our foreign policy of being bullies to our neighboring countrymen. I think we should have a more humble approach in our foreign policy like the Swiss...Don't ya think?
Again, as far as I have read he does not particularly side with Obama, but is an independent who does not see many real options in the republican choices. American imperialism seems more like the rethoric of the rest of the republican choices rather than Obama. If you really are for imperialism, Obama cutting the military bases in europe would be completely unacceptable.
Swiss is a very special case in it being surrounded by mountains and having relatively civilized neighbors. It has been common knowledge in europe that Swiss has been living off their banking-secrecy quite a bit economically and thus again being a very special case.
As for my opinion on war: I see it as necessary to keep the deals you have already made. Specifically in Iraq and Afghanistan there are several obstacles. Afghanistan is showing signs leading experts to believe Al Quaeda is preparing for an attack as soon as foreign troops leave the country, while soldiers in Iraq are there to train soldiers and police before leaving to avoid too much of a vacuum. I find those things necessary anti-war or not. As for Asian and oceanian military bases I am not so sure about which are necessary.
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
On January 13 2012 16:55 ryanAnger wrote: Okay, look. I'm going to explain this for everyone who doesn't seem to understand. This is what is going to happen:
1- Ron Paul gets the nomination. Close race between him and Obama, Paul will probably win because he steals most of Obamas base, because they all hate him now (ie, me.)
2- Mitt Romney gets the nomination, Ron Paul goes third party and takes 20% of Mitt's vote and about 10% of Obamas. Obama wins another 4.
Right now, those are the options. So the question is not whether you want Mitt or Newt or Rick or Jon or whomever as President, because it's just not going to happen. The question is whether you prefer Ron Paul or Obama.
Ron Paul>Gary Johnson and that's about it for me.
I'll write in Ron Paul if I have to.
Gary Johnson has a better foreign policy than Ron Paul though, imho.
On January 13 2012 19:48 bOneSeven wrote: All of you who are for gun control have no idea what is like to live in a developing country/3rd world country . Romania is severely damaged right now from all aspects, so we're like a weak developing country . We have strong gun control laws , we can barely get rubber bullets pistols , and that is seriously hard to get and you have to follow some ridiculuos procedures , it's to much to explain , it's just completely retarded, take it from I have friends who had rubber bullets pistols and they gave up because of the seriously retarded regulations .
However there are lots of "bad" people here, "gangsters" , well they are like ants compared to bulgarian gangsters or such men... anyways they've got plenty of guns , and no1 really cares to bust them , because here most of the colonel detectives run these criminals, leave them roam around playing their shitty games ... It kinda sounds like kind of a movie what's happening here but this is what's up... It's not like you can get shot here if you stay in the right places, but still, decent good men can not get guns to protect themselves, but the bad guys have guns with no problem, and no problem to use it ( we have countless cases of murders, even in my hometown, where the murderers were given free passes because of their "friends" ).
Gun control is a fantasy, it could only work in places such as New Zealand ... Take it from a citizen from a developing country. To bad there isn't a russian guy here to explain you how shit goes down in bad places where good men can't protect themselves.
I agree with you, my Romanian comrade! Gun rights are necessary for a free society, the idea that Obama and others like him should take away everyone's guns (except for the guns owned by the elites in charge of course) is just insane. Obama's anti-gun policy alone makes him the scariest man on the planet imho. Possibly even more so than Barosso and Van Rumpoy.
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
Ron Paul has a lot of haters because he is the only mainstream politician who supports gay rights, unlike Obama/Romney/Perry. The Obamabots and religious fundamentalists seem to really hate gay people, and unfortunately they seem to make up a rather sizable chunk of the population.
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
doesn't refute the point that there ARE people have studied economics that will advise voting for Ron Paul
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
On January 13 2012 23:59 BobTheBuilder1377 wrote: @aksfjh So, how many times have I destroyed you in debates? 4? I still don't understand why you support our warmongering foreign policy which is pretty terrible.
To be honest you do not act very mature or like someone who has heard anything about any other candidtes from other sources than those approved by Evangelical Paulists. What I see in your "debates" with aksfjh is you strawmanning everything he says and adding a random Paul-video to boot.
As an outsider who would not rule Pauls ideas out on principle, I am getting to agree more and more with aksfjhs assesment about some of the people supporting Paul being too zealous and blind to any potential problems in what he says.
Sorry If I came off too strong. aksfjh has already said how much he dislikes Paul because he supports Obama. This makes us clash a lot in this forum. Not only that but, he supports American Imperialism which most people from the anti-war movement hate. I'm a part of that group and I don't agree with our foreign policy of being bullies to our neighboring countrymen. I think we should have a more humble approach in our foreign policy like the Swiss...Don't ya think?
Again, as far as I have read he does not particularly side with Obama, but is an independent who does not see many real options in the republican choices. American imperialism seems more like the rethoric of the rest of the republican choices rather than Obama. If you really are for imperialism, Obama cutting the military bases in europe would be completely unacceptable.
Swiss is a very special case in it being surrounded by mountains and having relatively civilized neighbors. It has been common knowledge in europe that Swiss has been living off their banking-secrecy quite a bit economically and thus again being a very special case.
As for my opinion on war: I see it as necessary to keep the deals you have already made. Specifically in Iraq and Afghanistan there are several obstacles. Afghanistan is showing signs leading experts to believe Al Quaeda is preparing for an attack as soon as foreign troops leave the country, while soldiers in Iraq are there to train soldiers and police before leaving to avoid too much of a vacuum. I find those things necessary anti-war or not. As for Asian and oceanian military bases I am not so sure about which are necessary.
1. It seems odd to me to think terrorist will attack from Afghanistan. They can spread trough other parts of the world where the US is not so present and engineer their attack from there. So they have more free space and time to develop their attacks.
Going and occupy Iraq... come on... you keep it stable while you are there, but after you leave you create a huge power vacuum... Look at Iraq...soon to be a massive civile war between the sunnis and the shiites... but then again the sunnis have been promised weapons from us paying for them like 5 billion dollars.. what will happen from this? Will the sunnis ally with Iran who is a direct threat to most of us ( altho I believe they can be easily neutralized ) and kill the shiites .. ?
Go in unstable place => stabilize the place => leave => make it worse than it was in the first place ... The simple idea is , you can make a better world idealy, but you don't have the resources ... That's my take on it...noob take... but still I guess it's not disconnected from reality...
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
doesn't refute the point that there ARE people have studied economics that will advise voting for Ron Paul
Indeed, virtually all economists agree that the Keynesian system doesn't work.
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
doesn't refute the point that there ARE people have studied economics that will advise voting for Ron Paul
And in the same breathe, there are people that are professional economists that disagree with Ron Paul's economic views. It simply is not clear cut, and out of all the economically literate people I have seen on this forum, most of them have disagreed with "Austrian economics" for a slew of reasons.
Also, my post still retains the fact that providing such inane "proofs" is absolutely meaningless.
On January 13 2012 20:46 aksfjh wrote: [quote] Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
doesn't refute the point that there ARE people have studied economics that will advise voting for Ron Paul
Indeed, virtually all economists agree that the Keynesian system doesn't work.
Which is why there has been a Keynesian revival, right?
On January 13 2012 20:46 aksfjh wrote: [quote] Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
doesn't refute the point that there ARE people have studied economics that will advise voting for Ron Paul
Indeed, virtually all economists agree that the Keynesian system doesn't work.
"virtually" as in "in the virtual, imaginary world in which I wish I lived"?
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
doesn't refute the point that there ARE people have studied economics that will advise voting for Ron Paul
Indeed, virtually all economists agree that the Keynesian system doesn't work.
Which is why there has been a Keynesian revival, right?
On January 13 2012 20:46 aksfjh wrote: [quote] Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
doesn't refute the point that there ARE people have studied economics that will advise voting for Ron Paul
And in the same breathe, there are people that are professional economists that disagree with Ron Paul's economic views. It simply is not clear cut, and out of all the economically literate people I have seen on this forum, most of them have disagreed with "Austrian economics" for a slew of reasons.
Also, my post still retains the fact that providing such inane "proofs" is absolutely meaningless.
well that's the type of inane proof that kwizach's statement required.
And as for why there's a revival of Keynesianism? What do you mean revival? lol. It's always been here, and the reason it's always been here is because it justifies the government's intervention in everything, and justifies increased government power by funding it with government spending...
It's very easy for the people in the government to say yes to Keynesianism, and no to Austrian theory, because Austrian theory effectively argues for limited government by minimizing its budget.
But Keynesianism has always been here as the guiding principle for the government, and look where we're at now? lol
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
doesn't refute the point that there ARE people have studied economics that will advise voting for Ron Paul
Indeed, virtually all economists agree that the Keynesian system doesn't work.
Which is why there has been a Keynesian revival, right?
Politicians aren't (usually) economists and big government politicians like Obama (also Bush and Clinton) are the ones who purport the Keynesian system and want to destroy the American dollar by devaluing it.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
doesn't refute the point that there ARE people have studied economics that will advise voting for Ron Paul
And in the same breathe, there are people that are professional economists that disagree with Ron Paul's economic views. It simply is not clear cut, and out of all the economically literate people I have seen on this forum, most of them have disagreed with "Austrian economics" for a slew of reasons.
Also, my post still retains the fact that providing such inane "proofs" is absolutely meaningless.
well that's the type of inane proof that kwizach's statement required.
And as for why there's a revival of Keynesianism? What do you mean revival? lol. It's always been here, and the reason it's always been here is because it justifies the government's intervention in everything, and justifies increased government power by funding it with government spending...
It's very easy for the people in the government to say yes to Keynesianism, and no to Austrian theory, because Austrian theory effectively argues for limited government by minimizing its budget.
But Keynesianism has always been here as the guiding principle for the government, and look where we're at now? lol
What lol?
Austrian economic policy won't actually prevent crises. Crises are an inherent part of the system, and you can't objectively claim that a different approach would have led to a better outcome (because you can't know, noone can). The fact is that the current crisis goes much deeper then government overspending, it is instead the result of structural imbalances in the world economic system.
I can't wait for Paul to drop out tho, maybe this thread will become readable again instead of talk show hosts with the IQ of a monkey trying to explain economic policy in garbage youtube clips. He'll finish maybe 3rd in NC, won't participate in Florida and after that I'm guessing its lights out.
This monopoly on the one and only truth that Ron Paul seems to have is pissing me off and makes any attempt at debate utterly foolish. Yes, he's got integrety, but that doesn't actually make any of his policies any good. The worst people are those that are wrong with good intentions, because they'll never ever change their mind. I don't want someone like that in the most powerful job in the world.
On January 13 2012 22:54 Focuspants wrote: [quote]
You just sourced a belief in evolution as a trait of being a psychopath. Reducing an argument to "Hitler also did this" is like intellectual foul number one. You then compare being anti gay, with being anti a soccer team. You then state you want everyone that doesnt have money to die to test how giving people might be. I dont think youre making a very good case for voting for Ron Paul. Maybe you should leave that to people who understand economics or foreign policy. Spreading your flawed logic isnt really going to help.
People who understand economics are not going to advise voting for Ron Paul ;-)
All of Austrian economics begs to differ. Unless of course you consider everyone not having a Keynsian based veiw (in some form or fashion) as not understanding economics.
Where did I say anything about Keynesianism? Again, people who understand economics will not advise voting for Ron Paul (or anyone else subscribing to the Austrian school, for that matter) :-)
So, tell me why we should keep propping up the debt? Doing that just makes its even worse....Does the 2008 housing crisis ring a bell?
I'm sorry, but "Austrian economist agrees that Ron Paul is right on the economy" is like the equivalent of "Catholic theologian agrees that Vatican is right on contraception".
doesn't refute the point that there ARE people have studied economics that will advise voting for Ron Paul
Indeed, virtually all economists agree that the Keynesian system doesn't work.
Which is why there has been a Keynesian revival, right?
Politicians aren't (usually) economists and big government politicians like Obama (also Bush and Clinton) are the ones who purport the Keynesian system and want to destroy the American dollar by devaluing it.
Are you seriously trying to say that the newer Keynesian economists actually don't exist? If you want to rewrite reality, then sure, okay. I'm not defending the Keynesians either, as I honestly think economics is just polemic charlatanry. I'm simply saying that the statement, "all economics agree that the Keynesian system doesn't work" is just patently false, and the sort of cherry-picking of the truth that is rampant in this thread is hilariously bold-faced and without shame.
EPT
