I honestly don't give two shits about the American economy, but I want Ron Paul to win solely from his stance on foreign policy.
Yes there may be countries and states that may resent the west even if you weren't interfering with them constantly, maybe some of their leaders are irrational and dangerous even left to their own devices, but I fail to see how anyone can think the US's interventionalist policies do not either further inflame existing grievances, give their governments more excuses to blame the west, or outright incite the anger of those who would other wise not hate the west.
Then again I'm probably pretty biased, since not only do I not live in the US, but in a country who's government is stupid enough to provide military assistance in what is essentially an American interest with no real benefit to us.
Shit. Can someone do me a favour? The Taiwanese Presidential elections is tomorrow (within 24 hours) and I wanted to create a Taiwanese elections thread. However, having only just created this account, I cannot create a new thread on TL.
If someone is willing, can they please create one so that we can discuss the Taiwanese elections. Info to include in the OP:
1. The two main parties contesting it are the KMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KMT) and DPP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Progressive_Party).
If someone could please create this thread in the General Forum it would be greatly appreciated, thanks. Please do this ASAP as the elections are tomorrow.
On January 13 2012 16:20 Taiwanese wrote: Can someone do me a favour? The Taiwanese Presidential elections is tomorrow (within 24 hours) and I wanted to create a Taiwanese elections thread. However, having only just created this account, I cannot create a new thread on TL.
Okay, look. I'm going to explain this for everyone who doesn't seem to understand. This is what is going to happen:
1- Ron Paul gets the nomination. Close race between him and Obama, Paul will probably win because he steals most of Obamas base, because they all hate him now (ie, me.)
2- Mitt Romney gets the nomination, Ron Paul goes third party and takes 20% of Mitt's vote and about 10% of Obamas. Obama wins another 4.
Right now, those are the options. So the question is not whether you want Mitt or Newt or Rick or Jon or whomever as President, because it's just not going to happen. The question is whether you prefer Ron Paul or Obama.
On January 13 2012 16:55 ryanAnger wrote: Okay, look. I'm going to explain this for everyone who doesn't seem to understand. This is what is going to happen:
1- Ron Paul gets the nomination. Close race between him and Obama, Paul will probably win because he steals most of Obamas base, because they all hate him now (ie, me.)
2- Mitt Romney gets the nomination, Ron Paul goes third party and takes 20% of Mitt's vote and about 10% of Obamas. Obama wins another 4.
Right now, those are the options. So the question is not whether you want Mitt or Newt or Rick or Jon or whomever as President, because it's just not going to happen. The question is whether you prefer Ron Paul or Obama.
On January 13 2012 16:55 ryanAnger wrote: Okay, look. I'm going to explain this for everyone who doesn't seem to understand. This is what is going to happen:
1- Ron Paul gets the nomination. Close race between him and Obama, Paul will probably win because he steals most of Obamas base, because they all hate him now (ie, me.)
2- Mitt Romney gets the nomination, Ron Paul goes third party and takes 20% of Mitt's vote and about 10% of Obamas. Obama wins another 4.
Right now, those are the options. So the question is not whether you want Mitt or Newt or Rick or Jon or whomever as President, because it's just not going to happen. The question is whether you prefer Ron Paul or Obama.
There is absolutely no way that 20% of the republican base would prefer to vote for Paul than to vote against Obama. Their goal is to beat Obama, even if they have to vote for Romney. They won't risk wasting their vote.
The republican caucus is a different matter entirely than the general election. But nice try with the Paul electioneering Unfortunately I'm afraid that Obama will win regardless of his poll numbers. Romney just doesn't inspire or motivate anyone to action.
On January 13 2012 15:29 DrTyrant wrote: Cities where guns are practically banned have the highest crime rates: Chicago and Detroit
If you want to live in a free society, you have to accept the fact that sometimes bad things will happen.
Also the Brevik incident shows that we need more gun rights and less anti-freedom Obama.
The Breivik incident shows a lot of things, but that is not one of them. Norway has a much lower murder rate than the US.
0.8 murders per 100 000 citizens in Norway, 5.9 per 100 000 citizens in the US. Add the Breivik murders to the average from 2004 and you get around 2.4 murders per 100 000 citizens.
It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
All of you who are for gun control have no idea what is like to live in a developing country/3rd world country . Romania is severely damaged right now from all aspects, so we're like a weak developing country . We have strong gun control laws , we can barely get rubber bullets pistols , and that is seriously hard to get and you have to follow some ridiculuos procedures , it's to much to explain , it's just completely retarded, take it from I have friends who had rubber bullets pistols and they gave up because of the seriously retarded regulations .
However there are lots of "bad" people here, "gangsters" , well they are like ants compared to bulgarian gangsters or such men... anyways they've got plenty of guns , and no1 really cares to bust them , because here most of the colonel detectives run these criminals, leave them roam around playing their shitty games ... It kinda sounds like kind of a movie what's happening here but this is what's up... It's not like you can get shot here if you stay in the right places, but still, decent good men can not get guns to protect themselves, but the bad guys have guns with no problem, and no problem to use it ( we have countless cases of murders, even in my hometown, where the murderers were given free passes because of their "friends" ).
Gun control is a fantasy, it could only work in places such as New Zealand ... Take it from a citizen from a developing country. To bad there isn't a russian guy here to explain you how shit goes down in bad places where good men can't protect themselves.
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
It would be absolutely hilarious if Ron Paul somehow beats Romney for Republican nomination and steals all the youth and teenagers' vote from Obama and win.
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
He is way better than Romney or Obama , you should vote him for that sole purpose.
Anyways, how is a Ron Paul supporter supposed to address you when people who do not support Ron Paul say he is a racist ? How can we talk to a man like that when Dr Paul has documented history of helping minorities for free if they were in a though spot ? Seriously now ... people jump to say , oh well he denies evolution ... Yeah?So?And?Who cares? You want someone who strongly supports evolution ? + Show Spoiler +
Ok get Hitler, his plan was highly influenced by evolution. Yes this is the most extreme I can get, but it is true.
He is racist? Really ? He is anti-gay ? So what ? I am anti Real Madrid ( ex-soccer fan) but I have nothing against their players or their supporters . His economic plan is seriously flawed ? Really ? Have we invented the perfect economy and we're not using it or what's up ? His libertarian society would not help people who find themselves in a bad place financially ... This is very good imo... once people die because they have no money, it will be a true test to our species if we are able to willingly sacrifice some of our comfort to help our sisters and brothers not dying because of simple apathy .
America is a republic, save it, democracy is seriously flawed because the people in power figured out how to mess it up for their own interests.
And about states being more involved in the internal matters...It is common knowledge that the more things you try to manage, the poorer your performance will be on those tasks.
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
That's an interesting angle to look at it. I actually don't live in the US so I don't know how the discussion plays out in the real life but I got a feeling that the issue on the internet was that many people misrepresent what RP said or stands for and try to set the record straight with a video or other documentation.
When I think about it maybe the reason why so many RP supporters post videos and encourage other people to learn more about RP because they themselves have been pulled to the other side this way. Nowadays it's probably safe to say that most current RP supporters come form the crowd which just 4 years ago said he is insane and kooky, but after learning what he actually stands for they spend their time, money and energy helping the man get some recognition.
But of course it's a different story if you really know the man well and just disagree with his philosophy.
On January 13 2012 16:55 ryanAnger wrote: Okay, look. I'm going to explain this for everyone who doesn't seem to understand. This is what is going to happen:
1- Ron Paul gets the nomination. Close race between him and Obama, Paul will probably win because he steals most of Obamas base, because they all hate him now (ie, me.)
2- Mitt Romney gets the nomination, Ron Paul goes third party and takes 20% of Mitt's vote and about 10% of Obamas. Obama wins another 4.
Right now, those are the options. So the question is not whether you want Mitt or Newt or Rick or Jon or whomever as President, because it's just not going to happen. The question is whether you prefer Ron Paul or Obama.
There is absolutely no way that 20% of the republican base would prefer to vote for Paul than to vote against Obama. Their goal is to beat Obama, even if they have to vote for Romney. They won't risk wasting their vote.
The republican caucus is a different matter entirely than the general election. But nice try with the Paul electioneering Unfortunately I'm afraid that Obama will win regardless of his poll numbers. Romney just doesn't inspire or motivate anyone to action.
I am voting for Ron Paul regardless of his status as a primary candidate or not. I will not vote for some war mongering, large government nut-job again. I learned my lesson doing that once. I don't care if Obama wins, at worst I have to put up with him for four more years and then someone with integrity can try again. Someone like Romney has the potential for eight. That is far worse.
I am done with the day of supporting a party. I support individual candidates. To me nearly everyone is a Rupublicrat or Democin.
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
That's an interesting angle to look at it. I actually don't live in the US so I don't know how the discussion plays out in the real life but I got a feeling that the issue on the internet was that many people misrepresent what RP said or stands for and try to set the record straight with a video or other documentation.
When I think about it maybe the reason why so many RP supporters post videos and encourage other people to learn more about RP because they themselves have been pulled to the other side this way. Nowadays it's probably safe to say that most current RP supporters come form the crowd which just 4 years ago said he is insane and kooky, but after learning what he actually stands for they spend their time, money and energy helping the man get some recognition.
But of course it's a different story if you really know the man well and just disagree with his philosophy.
I'd say most people who are actively supporting him on the internet is the same kind of people who's always done it. By that I mean that the new votes he is getting is more because of his competition than anything else.
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
That's an interesting angle to look at it. I actually don't live in the US so I don't know how the discussion plays out in the real life but I got a feeling that the issue on the internet was that many people misrepresent what RP said or stands for and try to set the record straight with a video or other documentation.
When I think about it maybe the reason why so many RP supporters post videos and encourage other people to learn more about RP because they themselves have been pulled to the other side this way. Nowadays it's probably safe to say that most current RP supporters come form the crowd which just 4 years ago said he is insane and kooky, but after learning what he actually stands for they spend their time, money and energy helping the man get some recognition.
But of course it's a different story if you really know the man well and just disagree with his philosophy.
Your doing it again / this is the problem why the supporters are annoying.
WHY can't Ron Paul supporters understand that many people just plain disagree with loads of stuff your Messiah is preaching. No matter how many times you tell us of the "Paulish" utopia...
Well.. I guess it would be really fun to watch the US crumble when you actaully elect him...
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
That's an interesting angle to look at it. I actually don't live in the US so I don't know how the discussion plays out in the real life but I got a feeling that the issue on the internet was that many people misrepresent what RP said or stands for and try to set the record straight with a video or other documentation.
When I think about it maybe the reason why so many RP supporters post videos and encourage other people to learn more about RP because they themselves have been pulled to the other side this way. Nowadays it's probably safe to say that most current RP supporters come form the crowd which just 4 years ago said he is insane and kooky, but after learning what he actually stands for they spend their time, money and energy helping the man get some recognition.
But of course it's a different story if you really know the man well and just disagree with his philosophy.
I'd say most people who are actively supporting him on the internet is the same kind of people who's always done it. By that I mean that the new votes he is getting is more because of his competition than anything else.
One year ago, I did not support Ron Paul. But as I have explored the investing world and spent large amounts of time learning about economies, I built up my own beliefs as to what needs to be done and subsequently discovered Ron Paul.
I starkly beg to differ with your opinion. The anecdotal conversation I have had with "new" Ron Paul supporters indicates to me they are interested because of the rapid downward spiral we have seen economically, governmentally (with regard to the government doing what the people want) and frankly, people are fucking tired of 10 years of "non-war" wars.
On January 13 2012 19:13 bUbUsHeD wrote: It's cool to see so many pro Ron Paul comments. On the other hand I don't understand all the hate and contempt for the man even if you don't agree with his positions.
You have to give him a couple of things - he is a man of integrity, a true renaissance man who did his best to be an athlete and intellectual, he is always polite, charitable, compassionate and even despite his age works relentlessly for his beliefs. He is not full of himself and unlike other politicians he is not an actor for hire by the highest bidder.
I think people who use the harshest of words to talk about Dr. Paul don't really know much about him and just consume what's thrown at them by the media. Check this video to see the real man and if you disagree with his positions address the issues and don't just try to smear him with dirty adjevtives.
RP is a real personality no matter what the election outcome will be.
Most of us not supporting Paul don't hate or even dislike the guy. We do see him as a politician though, who would accept support from anybody to get into office and push the country to his ideals.
If it's anything we hate, it's his rabid supporters. The people who enter these topics all over the internet with phrases like "educate yourself." They post an entire arsenal of youtube videos with the idea that people don't like Paul because they just don't know him well enough. "If people only knew him, they would support him!" They brood over Paul propaganda and become convinced that his simple answers and good-hearted nature is THE solution to all our governmental ires. They never believe they're facing a grassroots political machine to feed them utopian lies because of relative untarnished name of Paul.
This is where our outrage lies.
Getting angry at supporters is kind of a cop out to be honest. Four years ago it was Obama who had a lot of rabbid online supporters and the Paul camp was smaller compared to the other side. Now four years later it's bigger and better because the message of peace and liberty is very popular with the youth group. Again, you should think and ask yourself why we need to bomb 3rd world countries to "spread democracy". Now that is what I call propaganda... Wou and the rest of the neoliberals with the neoconservatives have bought into the war machines bullshit. We don't need a huge empire that polices the world and pushes our ideals onto other people. :S
EPT
Unfortunately I'm afraid that Obama will win regardless of his poll numbers. Romney just doesn't inspire or motivate anyone to action.
