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Could a Technocracy be Better than Democracy? - Page 19
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tech information
105 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Wow what part of NO MONEY IN THE TECHNOCRACY don't you understand? Technocracy's Distribution Certificate provides an abundance for every North American citizen no matter what their status is. How will you exploit another human being with the Distribution Certificate? It's physically impossible. Simple as that. I think first we should understand that this isn't Star Trek and "Distribution Certificates" do not make scarcity magically disappear... | ||
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macil222
United States113 Posts
The most ideal I think would be a republican form of government based on the concept of federalism, basically what the United States used to have. Democracy in and of itself means nothing to me which I don't get excited about events like what is going on in Libya and Egypt. It could just as easily be a dictatorship. So having said that it might seem I would like a technocracy but the problem is any legitimacy that scientists and engineers enjoy would instantly be lost in a technocracy. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. You give the "experts" that sort of power and corruption would take over very rapidly. Just think of the money that could be steered to special interests, the self importance of individuals or organizations driving policy, the money that could be made by sensationalizing and fear mongering (*cough*global warming*cough*). It would be much worse than the corruption that exists today. The best we can hope for is that our representatives in government and voters seek out and heed the advice of experts on whatever issue is at hand. But even then as we can see government/corporate collusion and political corruption can result in scams such as the global warming fear mongering. | ||
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Jonas :)
United States511 Posts
It only takes 1 minute and 26 seconds to realize that democracy is absolutely god-awful. Why would you trust politicians with making foreign policy, economic, and militaristic decisions when there are people who spend 20+ years studying the theory and practice behind these things? It's seriously a joke. Take the faculty of any decent American University and put them in charge of the US and they will run it about 100x better than what we have now | ||
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tech information
105 Posts
On September 13 2011 11:02 DeepElemBlues wrote: I think first we should understand that this isn't Star Trek and "Distribution Certificates" do not make scarcity magically disappear... ![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AoLW1CcQlH8/Tm6_PBFcpiI/AAAAAAAAAZQ/l4in0O673Dw/s1600/Technate+globe+transparent.png) The North American Continent has all the essentials: The mineral and energy resources, sufficient freshwater supply, climatic range, installed technology and trained personnel to operate a high energy civilization into the indefinite future. This is the minimum area for the maximum efficiency of operation. It is the minimum area that can become self-contained and self-sufficient. It is the minimum area for the maximum defense. This represents North America as a contiguous continentalism. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogat7OIaMkQ&feature=player_embedded | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
The North American Continent has all the essentials: The mineral and energy resources, sufficient freshwater supply, climatic range, installed technology and trained personnel to operate a high energy civilization into the indefinite future. This is the minimum area for the maximum efficiency of operation. It is the minimum area that can become self-contained and self-sufficient. It is the minimum area for the maximum defense. Oh. Well at least we're moving in a more realistic direction now................. ... | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
 Nor does wanting to have more than the other guy, that also doesn't need money. Oh, also, wanting someone to have less than you, that also doesn't need money. So silly | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On September 13 2011 08:37 Talin wrote: Those specific human beings think and make decisions using a different set of standards than most of ordinary people though. Not to mention that they can make informed decisions, rather than decisions based on corporate campaign funding, lobbying, or gaining insight by conversing with the supernatural forces. He he, you sound funny. You seem to think that if people cared about _______ that they'd be able to "make decisions using a different set of standards than most of ordinary people" and that those decisions would be "informed." It must be nice living in your brain | ||
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tech information
105 Posts
![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Qu-BnlzmlFc/Tm6cExC-gGI/AAAAAAAAAZA/Gok-WOvZTyw/s1600/yyvsmall.gif) Oh. Well at least we're moving in a more realistic direction now.................... Yup. Technocracy is science applied to social operations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOLF59NmwtU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL Many people have joined Technocracy with the avowed purpose of proving it wrong but are now considered among some of it's best officers. User was warned for this post | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On September 13 2011 11:36 DeepElemBlues wrote: Oh. Well at least we're moving in a more realistic direction now................. ... At this point I think he's just trolling. If he honestly believes in a world where people don't want "more" for the sake of having more than the other guy, then he's obviously a high school kid, probably 17, almost 18, wants to move out of his parent's place but can't since he spends more time watching youtube than working. Yeah, that kind of kid. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
Putting them in government would give them too much confidence in their pet theories and ideas which have as much chance of being deadly as they have of being benign. Leave me alone. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 13 2011 10:55 tech information wrote: Wow what part of NO MONEY IN THE TECHNOCRACY don't you understand? Technocracy's Distribution Certificate provides an abundance for every North American citizen no matter what their status is. How will you exploit another human being with the Distribution Certificate? It's physically impossible. Simple as that. Replacing money with distribution certificates does not increase the amount of real goods and services produced in the economy. Simply put, you are doing nothing but changing the name of the money you are using the the method of distribution. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On September 13 2011 11:56 lorkac wrote: He he, you sound funny. You seem to think that if people cared about _______ that they'd be able to "make decisions using a different set of standards than most of ordinary people" and that those decisions would be "informed." There's actually a lot of research on bureaucracies and professionals in general that shows this is actually the case, though. For example, the vast majority of physicians will agree on most medical facts regardless of ideology, and make decisions accordingly. As a case in point, you can see this video where Bill Frist, former Republican majority leader and physician, trashes anti-vaccination conspiracy theory in spite of the traditional Republican stance, due to his medical training: Basically, the institutions that produce professionals tend to train and condition them to behave in a manner consistent with professional norms and/or the oaths that they swear to. | ||
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sheaRZerg
United States613 Posts
I am disappointed. Seriously though, my feeling coming from a scientific field, is that most of the people are there in part because they couldn't care less about/ want to stay out of politics. Academia is like its own little insulated world. This might be heavily skewed in the natural sciences, however. Edit: Gotta love that winston Churchill. | ||
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FlyingSheeps
Canada204 Posts
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On September 13 2011 13:26 FlyingSheeps wrote: Have to love a good Dictatorship. What exactly does this have to do with the thread? | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On September 13 2011 13:28 sunprince wrote: What exactly does this have to do with the thread? You mean a thread based on the general populace not having a choice on it's leaders outside of government sanctioned rules dictating who can and cannot be a leader and is dependent on that leader's benevolence to ensure peace. Yeah, totally man. | ||
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tech information
105 Posts
On September 13 2011 12:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Replacing money with distribution certificates does not increase the amount of real goods and services produced in the economy. Simply put, you are doing nothing but changing the name of the money you are using the the method of distribution. Now you might think that the Energy Certificate is merely the substitution of one kind of money for another. But that's not so. Money is a debt token, it is a promise to pay a debt. The Energy Certificate is part of a measuring system. There's a vast difference between the two. Money is a medium of exchange, and it has value. The Distribution Certificate is a medium of distribution and it is used for measuring. There's quite a difference. Let's consider how they differ. The Certificate is issued for a specific time period and then it is canceled. Not so with money. The Certificate is issued to a specific person, and only that person can use it. Money, by the way, or otherwise, is negotiable by anyone! The Certificate identifies this person, or the owner. It tells who you are, where you are, and what you are. Money doesn't do that. The Certificate also records when you made your last purchase, where you made it, and it even describes the item that you bought. Money doesn't do any of those things. Now the Certificate is also part of a 24 hour inventory control. Money isn't. The Certificate helps to maintain a supply of stock on hand at all times, and it's an intrical part of the system for planning production schedules. Further, it is a guarantee of security because it is issued to every person male and female alike, not so with money. The Certificate is issued to everybody as a right of citizenship and no one can deny you that right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogat7OIaMkQ&feature=player_embedded The Technical Alliance was founded in 1918 and Technocracy Inc. was incorporated in 1933. PLEASE DO THE RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING UNRELATED STUFF The following are short biographies of the sixteen men and one woman whose research led to the concept of Technocracy and the social design of science--the concept of the Technate of North America, which would be the world's first functional society. The research and study by the Technical Alliance (New York, NY, 1918-21) marked the first time in history anywhere in the world that a country or a Continent was objectively examined and analyzed on a functionally multidisciplinary and interdisciplinary basis, not as nations and their people have always been compared and rated--and still are--on the basis of their political economic/financial ideology, their military forces, and their philosophical premises. Instead, the Technical Alliance measured and assessed the extent of the land's natural resources of soil, metals, fuels, hydrology and its energy resources, its transport and communications and construction capabilities, its industrial and technological productive capacity, its available scientific, engineering, biological trained personnel--all to determine whether this Continental area could provide an equitably individualized high optimum standard of living for its population, and if so, how this could be brought about. The Technical Alliance Profiles - The Founding Scientists of Technocracy Inc. ![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-x_drugA9rac/Thpzj5WGAxI/AAAAAAAAAUQ/50WGT4AByq4/s1600/Technocracy+Technical+Alliance++-+Richard+C.+Tolman+%2526+Albert+Einstein.jpg) Dr. Richard C. Tolman with Albert Einstein. ![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8KPbJ8ce0WM/Tm7fyhPHwoI/AAAAAAAAAZY/ga4NnRA_M40/s1600/einstein+%2526+techs.bmp) Technical Alliance Picture Archive ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XVvHssHIfhk/TffvBvJqoxI/AAAAAAAAALo/AuGDE_L6Du8/s1600/Technocracy+Events+%252812%2529.jpg) Those who claim they 'can't see' Technocracy are short on either facts or vision, or they are blinded by selfishness. - Technocracy Is For Women Too - Henrietta Phillips | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
For example, the vast majority of physicians will agree on most medical facts regardless of ideology, and make decisions accordingly. Yes... coworkers can agree with each other.... I didn't know that needed a study. As a case in point, you can see this video where Bill Frist, former Republican majority leader and physician... Former? As in no longer a politician? Huh... Sure. It's nice that people can stand for something strongly once they're no longer in politics. | ||
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JesusOurSaviour
United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On August 12 2011 17:08 Jombozeus wrote: Yep, most "ideologies", democracy included, tend to fail. We are humans - and humans are sinful whether you like it or not. The flesh does not incline towards any kind of general good. Yes - there will be your volunteer who just loves helping the sick and the homeless. But I guarantee you - 99.99% of the population don't care enough. Selflessness is what it takes to make a happy society. Mankind sucks at selflessnessTheoretically as grand as communism, with a very low plausibility with society's current form. In a few centuries though, very likely. | ||
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