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The future of graphics in games - Page 9

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W2
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1177 Posts
August 01 2011 23:23 GMT
#161
I'll believe it when I see it... What they have right now is not that pretty/realistic.
Hi
Mawi
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden4365 Posts
August 01 2011 23:23 GMT
#162
that polygon elephant statue sealed the deal was so beautiful

man if we can have unlimited polygons the future of gaming would be so beautiful
Forever Mirin Zyzz Son of Zeus Brother of Hercules Father of the Aesthetics
Krallin
Profile Joined July 2010
France431 Posts
August 01 2011 23:25 GMT
#163
On August 02 2011 06:06 iGrok wrote:
The real issue is ANIMATING such objects. Take for example LA Noire, which had a lot of emphasis on facial animation - how do you do that with point-based objects? Animating a billion points is where the real hardware issues are going to pop up


Indeed.
I don't know they're going to handle shades.
Games usually use pretty poor techniques such as mapping, but how are you supposed to calculate the shades when you have trillions of thousands of billions of hundres of thousands (c) polygons?

They seem to have it OK with clipping, and argue that shades are going OK, so they probably have something up their sleeve.

Last thing I don't get is why theyr couldn't get a few actual artists to work on this to provide us with what they claim to be stunning graphics - I've done some computer modeling and while I don't call myself an artist by any means, I think that they've been pretty lazy on this part.
I mean, their lightning kinda blows it completely.


I'll be convinced once I see this running.
ScouraE
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada28 Posts
August 01 2011 23:29 GMT
#164
Very cool technology, i'll be waiting for it. hopefully with a super computer that can actually run the game smoothly.
Wirting is a process not a product
Deadeight
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1629 Posts
August 01 2011 23:35 GMT
#165
And what kind of computer do you need to render all that? Haha.
Duka08
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
3391 Posts
August 01 2011 23:35 GMT
#166
Several people in the thread have summed it up quite well; it's just a different way of drawing. Current technological (hardware) limitations are blatantly obvious. I don't see how it's unique from past methods of rendering... Each method has its advantages and disadvantages. The video feels like more of a marketing ploy for now, whether or not what he's saying "is the future".
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-01 23:37:31
August 01 2011 23:36 GMT
#167
I'm not sure either way but I guess time will tell. Though I find it hard to believe that they all this trouble just for something fake (and even getting funding from the AUS government someone mentioned).
I know algorithmes can do some crazy stuff so maybe they stumbled upon something good.
RaLakedaimon
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1564 Posts
August 01 2011 23:38 GMT
#168
Cost me 800 dollars for a computer desktop just to play SC2 on mainly low and a few settings on medium, I wonder how much it costs for a home desktop to run a game with stuff like that in it lol. I don't imagine anyone but the crazy rich could play games with this type of technology for a long time. Still very cool and all but damn I wonder what kind of graphics card you'd need to play SC2 if it ran this type of graphics along with physics and all that.
Herculix
Profile Joined May 2010
United States946 Posts
August 01 2011 23:40 GMT
#169
i won't say the technology is there, but their claims are exaggerated and their optimism that this can be produced reliably in games with current rendering technology is misplaced.
Frigo
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary1023 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-01 23:59:05
August 01 2011 23:53 GMT
#170
+ Show Spoiler [UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAH] +

Sounds like (procedurally generated? interpolated?) voxel models with level of detail and some fancy rendering. Doesn't sound too bad, though I'm concerned about physics (e.g. collision detection) and lighting (the relative lack of shadows in the demos for example).

It was kind of ironic that they claim they have unlimited detail, yet they never zoom into a rock or a piece of grass, or even the ground.

By the way, I believe computer graphics in games reached a satisfactory level at about 2002 (I'm thinking of Arx Fatalis), they should improve other aspects of games, with a heavy emphasis on gameplay and playtesting.
http://www.fimfiction.net/user/Treasure_Chest
Baarn
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2702 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-01 23:56:12
August 01 2011 23:55 GMT
#171
Looks nice but it sounds like they still have a ways to go to get the frame rate to a more acceptable level if they are only at 20fps. They won't say what hardware they are running this platform on. Probably don't want to scare investors if it's a tesla. If it is tesla I don't think this will be that successful if you gotta pay 3k for a proper gpu.
There's no S in KT. :P
cdpham
Profile Joined April 2011
United States41 Posts
August 02 2011 00:12 GMT
#172
Here's an article from Wired talking about how it works... though it's over a year old:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/unlimited-detail-3-d-graphics/

Seems too good to be true; how're you going to be able to animate this? The coordinates for the voxels have to be stored somewhere right? Although maybe my understanding of the process is poor it seems like he just found a way to speed up the "coordinate data" -> "screen render" rate but what happens when the coordinate data is changing due to animations?
GranDim
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Canada1214 Posts
August 02 2011 00:18 GMT
#173
On August 02 2011 01:19 DeLoAdEr wrote:
interesting results for a software renderer, but the video only shows static geometry. I wonder if they're even able to handle animated objects..

and they mention the scene consists of more than 21 trillion points, lets say they store 4 byte for each point (color information, position, etc.) this would be ~100 TB of data right? so there must be some good compression going on there. ;p


The technique seems to be well fit for compression however, lots of atoms will be identical and position can also be grouped.
japro
Profile Joined August 2010
172 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-02 00:39:04
August 02 2011 00:27 GMT
#174
I have two problems with this:
1. They use the word "infinite" too much. It's obviously not possible to have "infinite" unique detail simply because there is only a limited amount of memory available. You can produce an infinite scene in the minecraft sense. I.E. there isn't actually an infinite scene that someone designed but just a deterministic rule to extend the detail procedurally whenever needed. So if you generate a world procedurally with a pseudo random number generator you could call it "infinite" for practical purposes since those generators have obscenely large cycle lengths, but that is more of a gimmick than actually useful for game design.
What is interesting for game designers is the possibility to have a large amount of created unique content. Not just repeating the same tree/texture over and over in the scene or having some fractal generating a lot of fake detail.
This is a nice example of actually useful technology that tries to adress this kind of problem (also this apparently runs on a XBox360):


2. They seem obsessed with polycounts when that isn't really that much of an issue anyway. The raw power of modern graphics hardware pretty much allows you to plaster the whole screen with pixel sized polygons. But what actually creates immersion Isn't absurdly detailed models, it's effects and post processing. Lights, shadows, reflection, indirect illumination, particle systems etc.
How often do you actually feel the urge to examine single pebbles on the ground in a game? Is that relevant to gameplay? That just isn't the main contributor to the atmosphere. The reason why you need powerful hardware for modern games is because they run multiple passes of expensive shaders and not because there are so many polygons.
Bigpet
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany533 Posts
August 02 2011 00:29 GMT
#175
Because all of our games exist without animations and with unbelievable amounts of instances, right?
oh wait.

Too much hype talk, too little actually useful tech to games.

This looks like a very nice tech for navigatable data visualization but using this in games is at most feasible in a hybrid tech that uses polys for the animated objects and this stuff for some highly instanced objects.
I'm NOT the caster with a similar nick
x2fst
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
1272 Posts
August 02 2011 00:34 GMT
#176
seems like this sort of thing might be good for animated movies and certain types of games? i was told about some friend of a friend who makes animated porn for a living, this guy is convinced that that industry is going to get big due to this sort of thing, they'll be able to do all sorts of weirdo fantasy stuff without taxing the viewer's suspension of disbelief too much
muda, is a crime for me to wear a shirt, cos I is so good lookin
Bigpet
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany533 Posts
August 02 2011 00:41 GMT
#177
On August 02 2011 09:34 x2fst wrote:
seems like this sort of thing might be good for animated movies and certain types of games? i was told about some friend of a friend who makes animated porn for a living, this guy is convinced that that industry is going to get big due to this sort of thing, they'll be able to do all sorts of weirdo fantasy stuff without taxing the viewer's suspension of disbelief too much


have you seen any animation in their Videos? They don't show it because that's nearly impossible. The only way they can draw so much geometry is that they have it nicely sorted in their data-structure if they were to animate stuff they'd have to sort their millions of moved point again. I'd love to see them do that in real-time with a normal PC.
I'm NOT the caster with a similar nick
Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
August 02 2011 00:42 GMT
#178
Either way, everything is still going to be converted to Triangles when its sent to Direct X.
No doubt this is just a way of only drawing the right amount of polygons at each magnification.
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
August 02 2011 00:47 GMT
#179
I'd like to see what actual game artists can do with this technology. It looked good, but it didn't feel like 100,000 good, although the elephant was pretty cool.

They should have picked something other than a rock for their example though because a rock in itself isn't the most interesting object lol.
Z3kk
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4099 Posts
August 02 2011 00:47 GMT
#180
Hmm, a lot of these replies are very interesting...I think this has promise when coupled with amazing post-processing components as well.

As to the animation...that remains to be seen, I guess. Perhaps their current announced absence is attempting to fix this.
Failure is not falling down over and over again. Failure is refusing to get back up.
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