EPTThe future of graphics in games - Page 7
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GiAx
Austria52 Posts
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xHassassin
United States270 Posts
:V | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
real time rendering owned. | ||
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Retgery
Canada1229 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11609 Posts
On August 02 2011 03:37 keeblur wrote: I get the idea he's trying to sell it, but I won't buy into it unless I see something other than camera pans of detailed environments. Plus I'm more interested in better games, not just better graphics. Well, i assume that noone will buy something like this without seeing that it actually works. And, as stated before, a video is no proof at all. And in my opinion, there is nothing that speaks against better graphics. Sure, good graphics won't make a bad game a good one or the other way around. But better graphics can make a good game a better game, which is a good thing. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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nemo14
United States425 Posts
On August 02 2011 04:20 DannyJ wrote: Id be more interested if they showed anything moving, or have moving lights. I suspect some issues. Dynamic lighting will be utterly impossible with this kind of thing until we have better computers and can get that amount of ray tracing done in real time. Before then, they'll have to make some kind of half-assed polygon-based approximation. I hope I'm wrong, though. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Moxi
708 Posts
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Maand
326 Posts
We need to wait for next generation of consoles for some real graphics progress. So developers can actually afford to make their games and sell them. | ||
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Cano
Poland200 Posts
On August 02 2011 04:39 Moxi wrote: I like how you failed to understand the point of the video.Looks incredible. But hey, cool video you had!! | ||
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Drium
United States888 Posts
![[image loading]](http://blog.smartbuzz.in/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/2.jpg) imo | ||
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Moxi
708 Posts
On August 02 2011 04:44 Cano wrote: Didn't they say the same thing a year ago? I like how you failed to understand the point of the video. How come? That hurts mate... | ||
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
On August 02 2011 04:34 da_head wrote: yea just saw this on reddit, quite fascinating. Yeah I often feel that the general forum should be labelled reddit reposts. | ||
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lowfi(
Germany280 Posts
The company also claims that it doesn't require a super system to render all that. If you watched their first video they gave a short explanation. Also in text format from http://unlimiteddetailtechnology.com/description.html + Show Spoiler + How does it work? If you have a background in the industry you know the above pictures are impossible. A computer can’t have unlimited power and it can’t process unlimited point cloud data because every time you process a point it must take up some processor time. But I assure you, it's real and it all works. Unlimited Detail's method is very different to any 3D method that has been invented so far. The three current systems used in 3D graphics are ray tracing polygons and point clouds/voxels, they all have strengths and weaknesses. Polygons run fast but have poor geometry, ray-tracing and voxels have perfect geometry but run very slowly. Unlimited Detail is a fourth system, which is more like a search algorithm than a 3D engine. It is best explained like this: if you had a word document and you went to the search tool and typed in a word like 'money' the search tool quickly searches for every place that word appeared in the document. Google and Bing are also search engines that go looking for things very quickly. Unlimited Detail is basically a point cloud search algorithm. We can build enormous worlds with huge numbers of points, then compress them down to be very small. The Unlimited Detail engine works out which direction the camera is facing and then searches the data to find only the points it needs to put on the screen it doesn’t touch any unneeded points, all it wants is 1024*768 (if that is our resolution) points, one for each pixel of the screen. It has a few tricky things to work out, like: what objects are closest to the camera, what objects cover each other, how big should an object be as it gets further back. But all of this is done by a new sort of method that we call "mass connected processing". Mass connected processing is where we have a way of processing masses of data at the same time and then applying the small changes to each part at the end. The result is a perfect pure bug free 3D engine that gives Unlimited Geometry running super fast, and it's all done in software. Wikipedia is also linking to two articles about "unlimited detail" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlimited_Detail Would be interesting to know about some more details on how it works. | ||
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EndOfTime88
Austria259 Posts
On August 02 2011 03:18 Nycaloth wrote: The real problem with computer graphics in gaming, imho, is that the spectacular advances in hardware and software technology combined with marketing efforts have made it acceptable, yes even common place, to produce games with shoddy mechanics and poor to nonexistent storytelling, just as long as the graphics look really really shiny. hope this is not too far OT. I agree, this is an issue with today's market. The more mainstream games become the less effort their is to produce something unique & of quality. I hope things start to change before it becomes too stale. | ||
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dr0pship
Canada520 Posts
Quote: "21 trillion 62 billion 352 million 435100 polygons" That would translate to at least 21.0623.5243.5100 triangles without instancing, or 21.0623.5243.5100 * 3 vertices, or 21.0623.5243.5100 * 3 * 3 xyz-coordinates, or 21.0623.5243.5100 * 3 * 3 * 4 = 758.2446.8766.3600 bytes = 689 terabytes worth of geometry data assuming 4-byte floats | ||
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Dragom
194 Posts
However, the problem is is that the average computer jsut cant handle this huge leap. If we think about Moore's law, we will notice that it will take decades for the average computer/gaming machine to adjust to this. As the video said, you can run 5 of these real objects, but a computer wont easily handle a entire game of these objects. As the above posts said, you need polygons or else dealing with collisions would cause major lag, now just think about a sword penetrating armor.... On August 02 2011 04:59 lowfi( wrote: Some more information for all the people talking about the need of high end systems. The company also claims that it doesn't require a super system to render all that. If you watched their first video they gave a short explanation. Also in text format from http://unlimiteddetailtechnology.com/description.html + Show Spoiler + How does it work? If you have a background in the industry you know the above pictures are impossible. A computer can’t have unlimited power and it can’t process unlimited point cloud data because every time you process a point it must take up some processor time. But I assure you, it's real and it all works. Unlimited Detail's method is very different to any 3D method that has been invented so far. The three current systems used in 3D graphics are ray tracing polygons and point clouds/voxels, they all have strengths and weaknesses. Polygons run fast but have poor geometry, ray-tracing and voxels have perfect geometry but run very slowly. Unlimited Detail is a fourth system, which is more like a search algorithm than a 3D engine. It is best explained like this: if you had a word document and you went to the search tool and typed in a word like 'money' the search tool quickly searches for every place that word appeared in the document. Google and Bing are also search engines that go looking for things very quickly. Unlimited Detail is basically a point cloud search algorithm. We can build enormous worlds with huge numbers of points, then compress them down to be very small. The Unlimited Detail engine works out which direction the camera is facing and then searches the data to find only the points it needs to put on the screen it doesn’t touch any unneeded points, all it wants is 1024*768 (if that is our resolution) points, one for each pixel of the screen. It has a few tricky things to work out, like: what objects are closest to the camera, what objects cover each other, how big should an object be as it gets further back. But all of this is done by a new sort of method that we call "mass connected processing". Mass connected processing is where we have a way of processing masses of data at the same time and then applying the small changes to each part at the end. The result is a perfect pure bug free 3D engine that gives Unlimited Geometry running super fast, and it's all done in software. Wikipedia is also linking to two articles about "unlimited detail" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlimited_Detail Would be interesting to know about some more details on how it works. The search thing may be good for casual gamers, but for pros who are constantly using the camera to scroll around with almost 0 predictability(of course, we humans would know why he may have the camera face this way, but a machine cannot) this will cause lag for the things that yet rendered because they forgot to count that when switch to one view to another direction, you also have to delete the first view from the physical memory. Edit: On August 02 2011 04:03 semantics wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYJh5YVgDZE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p-FQSTMefQ real time rendering owned. ummm, in the first video, around 11 seconds, you see some of the stuff switch from one module to the next... | ||
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procyonlotor
Italy473 Posts
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Jetaap
France4814 Posts
ps: the so called "moore's law" is not true anymore since a couple of years. edit: Unlimited Detail is a fourth system, which is more like a search algorithm than a 3D engine. It is best explained like this: if you had a word document and you went to the search tool and typed in a word like 'money' the search tool quickly searches for every place that word appeared in the document. Google and Bing are also search engines that go looking for things very quickly. Unlimited Detail is basically a point cloud search algorithm. We can build enormous worlds with huge numbers of points, then compress them down to be very small. The Unlimited Detail engine works out which direction the camera is facing and then searches the data to find only the points it needs to put on the screen it doesn’t touch any unneeded points, all it wants is 1024*768 (if that is our resolution) points, one for each pixel of the screen. It has a few tricky things to work out, like: what objects are closest to the camera, what objects cover each other, how big should an object be as it gets further back. But all of this is done by a new sort of method that we call "mass connected processing". Mass connected processing is where we have a way of processing masses of data at the same time and then applying the small changes to each part at the end. lol it's so obvious that it's a scam that it's not even worth arguing. I pity the guys who put money in this if there are any. | ||
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