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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
So you could ask: on a general basis, will someone's blood levels be better for someone who recently became obese (passing a certain treshold for certain parameters) opposed to someone who has been obese (who has passed these parameters) for years? I think the answer is: yes. compare a 20yr old 1yr into his obesity and a 50yr old 3 months into his obesity and that answer becomes no. the 50yr old will be way worse even if he'd been obese for a shorter period of time. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On June 09 2015 19:31 xM(Z wrote: compare a 20yr old 1yr into his obesity and a 50yr old 3 months into his obesity and that answer becomes no. the 50yr old will be way worse even if he'd been obese for a shorter period of time. In this comparison you would of course compare individuals with same parameters otherwise. So individuals of same age/smoking/fat%/yadayada, but with different weight histories. There is no doubt, as you point out, that there are other factors that influence these measurements as well, so important to keep those constant of you want to make an accurate comparison of different weight histories | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5121 Posts
On June 09 2015 19:31 xM(Z wrote: compare a 20yr old 1yr into his obesity and a 50yr old 3 months into his obesity and that answer becomes no. the 50yr old will be way worse even if he'd been obese for a shorter period of time. You really have troubles reading, don't you? I mention on a general basis in my last paragraph. And I said in the previous paragraph: because on a case to case level this might not always hold up, because genetics and age, like xM(X said, will also play a role. Then you make this hyperbolic cherrypicked hypothetical example. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11824 Posts
This does not mean that correlations don't exist. On average, the larger you are, the more you will weight. I doubt anyone would dispute this fact. But i am certain that 1.50m large people exist that are heavier than i am, and i am certain that some 2m person exists that weights less than i do. A single case of a counterexample is no logical prove against a correlation, it just proves that the correlation is smaller than 100%, and as in any real world situation for any empirical science pretty much all correlations between observables are smaller than 100%, that is not really new information. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
On June 09 2015 22:13 Uldridge wrote: You really have troubles reading, don't you? I mention on a general basis in my last paragraph. And I said in the previous paragraph: because on a case to case level this might not always hold up, because genetics and age, like xM(X said, will also play a role. Then you make this hyperbolic cherrypicked hypothetical example. ...and if "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas. + Show Spoiler + totally googled you deserved to be cherry-picked for presenting a bad/wrong example to your ifs and buts. a ha! | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
Or is it: what is the demarcation point between weighs too much and clinically obese--assuming clinically obese is when you have serious problems. Which is it? | ||
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helpman176
128 Posts
I read a publication that states that 10-20% of obese do not have any health issues. However, the study did not take into account the duration of obesity. Since the negative effect of obesity on health is long term, it is actually expected that a certain percentage of obese people do not have any health issues (since they are in the early stages of obesity and diseases have not become manifest yet). Now, one can have bad blood values, but still not have any health issues yet. So the question is if those early stage obese people are perfectly healthy in that they also have blood values comparable to non-obese people or if their blood values are already harbingers for their later health issues. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 09 2015 23:44 helpman176 wrote: The original question for me was if there can be obese people that are perfectly healthy. I read a publication that states that 10-20% of obese do not have any health issues. However, the study did not take into account the duration of obesity. Since the negative effect of obesity on health is long term, it is actually expected that a certain percentage of obese people do not have any health issues (since they are in the early stages of obesity and diseases have not become manifest yet). Now, one can have bad blood values, but still not have any health issues yet. So the question is if those early stage obese people are perfectly healthy in that they also have blood values comparable to non-obese people or if their blood values are already harbingers for their later health issues. Obesity is a ratio between height and weight while terms such as "healthy" are fairly relative unless you have specific values that are being used. Usually, the measurable values are assumed with Obesity in mind. If people with obesity has a statistical reading different from non-obese people, then its considered bad via tautology. Conversely, if there are statistical commonalities amongst non-obese that different from the statistical readouts of obese people--then it's considered healthy via tautology. For the most part, most people who become obese will be unhealthy long before they reach the ratio. But whether the same is true for healthy people--that they can be healthy and just happen to hit the ratio, I am not trained well enough to know. As for your question--yes, its very much possible to have perfectly healthy obese people depending on what it is about them that gives them that weight. Body builders can be technically obese, for example, if their muscle mass is pumped up above normal levels via steroids/drug use/excessive protien+carb consumption--but no one really "counts" those types of people because they do not fit our image of the "obese." The same is true for people that are overly short with "normal" weight for their age--but not their height. But I don't think that's what you're asking for either. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23930 Posts
On June 09 2015 23:44 helpman176 wrote: The original question for me was if there can be obese people that are perfectly healthy. I read a publication that states that 10-20% of obese do not have any health issues. However, the study did not take into account the duration of obesity. Since the negative effect of obesity on health is long term, it is actually expected that a certain percentage of obese people do not have any health issues (since they are in the early stages of obesity and diseases have not become manifest yet). Now, one can have bad blood values, but still not have any health issues yet. So the question is if those early stage obese people are perfectly healthy in that they also have blood values comparable to non-obese people or if their blood values are already harbingers for their later health issues. So are we presuming that all health not directly related to becoming obese is the same right? In real life we all have our weaknesses or whatever. It sounds like one of those "all things being equal...", except in reality they very, very, rarely are. Being obese isn't particularly healthy but there is plenty of genetic stuff and activities non-obese people do that gives them the opportunity to be as unhealthy or plenty more. | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
On June 10 2015 00:01 Thieving Magpie wrote: Obesity is a ratio between height and weight while terms such as "healthy" are fairly relative unless you have specific values that are being used. Usually, the measurable values are assumed with Obesity in mind. If people with obesity has a statistical reading different from non-obese people, then its considered bad via tautology. Conversely, if there are statistical commonalities amongst non-obese that different from the statistical readouts of obese people--then it's considered healthy via tautology. For the most part, most people who become obese will be unhealthy long before they reach the ratio. But whether the same is true for healthy people--that they can be healthy and just happen to hit the ratio, I am not trained well enough to know. As for your question--yes, its very much possible to have perfectly healthy obese people depending on what it is about them that gives them that weight. Body builders can be technically obese, for example, if their muscle mass is pumped up above normal levels via steroids/drug use/excessive protien+carb consumption--but no one really "counts" those types of people because they do not fit our image of the "obese." The same is true for people that are overly short with "normal" weight for their age--but not their height. But I don't think that's what you're asking for either. Those specific guys aren't healthy either. It's possible to reach obese levels (bmi of 30+) natural, but you'd probably be approaching 20% bodyfat. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
Much like most non-obese people are also unhealthy for other reasons. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On June 09 2015 23:44 helpman176 wrote: The original question for me was if there can be obese people that are perfectly healthy. I read a publication that states that 10-20% of obese do not have any health issues. However, the study did not take into account the duration of obesity. Since the negative effect of obesity on health is long term, it is actually expected that a certain percentage of obese people do not have any health issues (since they are in the early stages of obesity and diseases have not become manifest yet). Now, one can have bad blood values, but still not have any health issues yet. So the question is if those early stage obese people are perfectly healthy in that they also have blood values comparable to non-obese people or if their blood values are already harbingers for their later health issues. You can feel healthy, but you cannot be healthy, or more precisely, you cannot know that you are healthy. 10-20% of obese people not having any health issues doesn't mean that they have greater risks of developing X health issue and/or that they have an health issue undiscovered yet. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
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_fool
Netherlands682 Posts
Nr mind, I'll try the search again... | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
If so, how does he pay child support? | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
http://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/obesity-risks I mean, Obese or fat people deserve respect, but those people that go around saying its ok to be bad...no, its not ok. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11824 Posts
On June 10 2015 05:26 Epishade wrote: Can a girl have sex with a dead guy and get pregnant? If so, how does he pay child support? A dead guy is probably not capable of ejaculating. With some magic, if the guy is just barely dead, you could probably manage to get someone pregnant with his sperm. And as always with a dead father, he does not have to pay child support. For this it is not very relevant if he was dead when the child was conceived or not. | ||
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On June 10 2015 05:36 [Phantom] wrote: No its not posible to be obese and healthy. http://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/obesity-risks I mean, Obese or fat people deserve respect, but those people that go around saying its ok to be bad...no, its not ok. So far nothing in that article points to anything conclusive other than that obese people with zero signs of health issues might get it in the future, and then goes on to say that skinny people can get it too eventually concluding that we shouldn't look at weight. Like seriously, where is the evidence they present? | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On June 10 2015 05:26 Epishade wrote: Can a girl have sex with a dead guy and get pregnant? If so, how does he pay child support? Well post-mortem erection is a thing, thus we can think that post-mortem ejaculation can be a thing too, though it's probably something no one wants to verify. Post-mortem sperm retrieval is a thing too, though I'm unsure of its legality in various countries. | ||
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On June 10 2015 06:22 OtherWorld wrote: Well post-mortem erection is a thing, thus we can think that post-mortem ejaculation can be a thing too, though it's probably something no one wants to verify. Post-mortem sperm retrieval is a thing too, though I'm unsure of its legality in various countries. Leftover pre/post cum on a dead corpse is also a thing depending how recently dead. | ||
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